Author to Authority
Ep 383 - How To Have High Converting Sales Conversations With Jason Cutter
July 7, 2023
In this special series of episodes leading up to the special 400th episode, Kim selects the top 25 episodes to be played throughout the summer. In this first of a two-parter with Jason, the CEO of Qatar Consulting Group and sales success architect, shares his unconventional journey that led him to become a sales consultant and how he helps small businesses create scalable inside sales teams using authentic persuasion. He emphasizes the importance of transforming from an order taker to a quota breaker, highlights the role of relationships and trust in sales and how human-to-human (H2H) relationships should be the focus. He also shares how assuming the sale comes from a place of empathy, caring and knowing what's best for the people you can help.
In this special series of episodes leading up to the special 400th episode, Kim selects the top 25 episodes to be played throughout the summer. In this first of a two-parter with Jason, the CEO of Qatar Consulting Group and sales success architect, shares his unconventional journey that led him to become a sales consultant and how he helps small businesses create scalable inside sales teams using authentic persuasion. He emphasizes the importance of transforming from an order taker to a quota breaker, highlights the role of relationships and trust in sales and how human-to-human (H2H) relationships should be the focus. He also shares how assuming the sale comes from a place of empathy, caring and knowing what's best for the people you can help. 

Kim and Jason also discuss his upcoming book, Selling with Authentic Persuasion, Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker. Jason’s skills in negotiation and authentic persuasion acquired from his experience tagging sharks and pushing them away from the bait, required convincing them not to eat it. 

Along with tips on persuasion and understanding why people buy, the podcast covered the importance of changing the mindset towards sales. The podcast highlights the motivation behind the purchase and how it differs for each individual. The conversation also covers the transition from building rapport with a potential client to making a soft close. 

Kim has assisted more than 200 people in writing and publishing books that have proven to be effective marketing tools for their businesses. Many of these authors have reached best-seller status on Amazon and have leveraged their books to attract high-profile clients and secure speaking engagements. Fans of the podcast can find more resources and get in touch with Kim at

Don’t miss out! Tune in to the Author to Authority podcast and transform yourself from an order taker to a quota breaker in the world of sales. Don't forget to leave a rating or review on the website before signing off and look out for the next episode.

Jason Cutter
CEO, Mindset and Scalability Expert
Cutter Consulting Group
Jason Cutter, CEO of Cutter Consulting Group, is a mindset and scalability expert focused on developing Authentic Persuaders®. Even though his bachelor’s degree is in Marine Biology, he knows what it takes to be successful in sales and build profitable teams. His books, podcasts, training workshops and speaking are focused on helping sales professionals close more deals, make more money, and produce scalable results.

Main Hub/Link:

Authentic Persuasion:



[00:00:02] Transforming Business with Authentic Persuasion

[00:04:40] Unplanned Career Paths and Shark Tagging

[00:08:01] From Shark Wrangling to Sales Consulting

[00:11:34] From Order Taker to Quota Breaker: The Power of Persuasion

[00:15:03] Overcoming fears to achieve success

[00:18:00] The Importance of Understanding Customer Needs

[00:21:47] Relationship-based sales strategies

[00:24:45] Rapport Building and Soft Trial Closes

[00:28:10] Assuming the Sale and Confidence in Selling

[00:32:01] Using Books as Marketing Tools


A to A EP 383 - A.mp3

Speaker0                                                                                        00:18

You are an entrepreneur, a professional, a speaker, or a coach.

And although you come a long way.

It's time for you to take it to the next level.

We've got you.

This is the Author to Authority Podcast

Speaker0                                                                                        00:48

We'll help you use authority and influencer marketing to build your business stronger and faster by publishing a book.

You'll hear from guests that are thought leaders in sales, marketing, networking, communication, social media, promotion, and business leadership.

Let's do it.

This is the author to authority podcast.

now your host, the extraordinary word Ninja, Kim Thompson-Pinder

Speaker0                                                                                        00:50


Speaker1                                                                                        01:23

to the Author to Authority podcast, I’m your host, Kim Thompson-Pinder.

And I'm so excited to announce that in August, We will be having the 400th episode of the author to authority podcast And in celebration of that, I have decided to do the top 25 episodes of the author to authority podcast for the whole summer.

Speaker2                                                                                        01:23

And we will celebrate the

Speaker1                                                                                        02:10

400th about mid August, so there'll be a couple of episodes after that.

And I chose these episodes because they were the ones that I just personally felt were the ones that gave tremendous amount of value that we're going to help you as an entrepreneur, professional, speaker, coach, to move your business forward.

These were value packed episodes that are just going to give you action steps that are just going to really propel you to the next level.

So I'd love for you to sit back, relax, and enjoy this top 25 episode.

Speaker2                                                                                        02:59

Welcome to the author to authority podcast And today, we have part 1 of a 2 part series that I am doing with Jason Cutter on Trans forming your business from being an order taker to a quota breaker?

And I am cited because Jason is the CEO of Qatar Consulting Group, and he sees himself as a sales success architect.

And he does anything from training, description to sales tech.

He helps small businesses create scalable inside sales teams.

And his newest program is called authentic persuasion with the goal of helping people to go from order taker to quote a breaker.

Speaker2                                                                                        03:01

So welcome to the show, Jason.

Speaker3                                                                                        03:13

Thanks for having me, Kim.

I'm super excited to talk about this topic.

and, you know, writing and business, and we're all of that, which some of it's good for me and some of it is not my strength.

Speaker2                                                                                        03:22


because right now, you're in the final stages of your book.

And that must be an exciting time.

Speaker3                                                                                        03:32

It is.

The final stages is definitely exciting and everything coming together.

It's definitely been a journey in my head and through a process as well.

Speaker2                                                                                        03:43

And we're gonna talk about that writing journey in the second episode that we're going to do together.

But let's start.

What is the name of your book gonna be?

Speaker3                                                                                        03:47

Selling with authentic persuasion, transform from order taker to quotabreaker.

Speaker2                                                                                        03:56

I love it.

Alright, Jason.

So why don't you take some time, introduce yourself, and share a bit of your story with us?

Speaker3                                                                                        04:25


So as you had mentioned in the intro, I am a consultant.

I focus on sales success for individuals, for sales teams, mostly companies that have inside sales like telephone sales where they're hoping to help somebody move forward with some purchase decision over the phone.

consultative type sales where there's, you know, a clear fit for the right people, and, you know, there's not a good fit for the wrong people.

And so that's what I focus on.

Speaker3                                                                                        04:46

I do everything from mindset to training to sales, to scripting, to, like you said, the technology piece and and marketing.

And I've been in sales for a long time.

Like, a lot of people I fell into sales.

I wouldn't say accidentally, because, you know, I made the decision.

It wasn't like I I tripped one day and fell into an office and started on the phone in sales.

Speaker3                                                                                        05:23

But it it was literally not my plan and not something I wanted to do when I grew up like most people.

And, you know, the funny part and where I really love helping people now in consulting as well as what I've done in my success in sales, comes from the fact that for me, my path is a windy mess.

I've like, I have been all over the map as far as my career and life.

And I feel like a lot of that comes into the authenticity of helping people and being real with people I mean, my bachelor's degree is in marine biology.

I spent years tagging sharks.

Speaker3                                                                                        05:44

I worked at Microsoft doing tech support for a couple of years.

I mean, I grew up as a shy, awkward, only child, late bloomer to 2 very analytical parents, yet here I am as a sales consultant.

which on one side doesn't make any sense.

And on the other side, it lends itself really well to this authentic persuasion kind of method that I teach people.

Speaker2                                                                                        05:50

Well, you know, if you can negotiate sharks, I guess you can negotiate people.

Speaker3                                                                                        06:09

Well and it's funny because you can't really negotiate with sharks.

You know, especially once they get to a certain size, when they're bigger than you, you you can't really negotiate.

But funny side story.

One of the things that I did was tagging GreatWhite Sharks, and this is near Santa Cruz, California.

And my job because I was the young guy on the boat, Right?

Speaker3                                                                                        06:34

I'm nineteen, twenty, twenty one years old.

My job was to take the long pole and push the eighteen foot GreatWhite shark away from the bait that was hanging on the side of the boat.

And so I had to convince the shark to to not eat the piece of, you know, fish or seal that was there.

And, yeah, sometimes, I I did a good job.

Sometimes, I didn't.

Speaker2                                                                                        06:39

Now were you ever in the water with the sharks?

Speaker3                                                                                        06:55

Not with great whites.


that was definitely from a boat and illegal in California to be in a cage.

So that was just from the boat.

With smaller sharks, you know, up to 3, 4, 5 feet, definitely in the water, in the estuary, in the slue.

Speaker3                                                                                        06:58

So, yeah, spend a lot of time in the water with smaller shorts.

Speaker2                                                                                        07:02

So how do you tag a shark if you're not in the water with them?

Speaker3                                                                                        07:24

A long pole with a sharp tip.

That's how you do it.


And the other thing that we used to do with blue sharks is you wouldn't be in the water with them.

They'd be swimming around, and you would sometimes we would just literally reach over the side of the boat and grab them with our hands and pull them into the boat by hand and then hold them down and tag them and weigh them and measure

Speaker2                                                                                        07:26

So, obviously, those are the smaller sharks.

Speaker3                                                                                        07:32


Up to, like, 4 feet or so.

Just reaching over and and grabbing a shark.

you know, why not?

Speaker2                                                                                        07:48

You know, it's funny.

I I've actually watched animal shows where I've seen that done, but you you don't you know, usually on these shows, it's such a serious thing to get this shark into the boat.


And you're like, oh, yeah.

We just grabbed them and threw them in.

Speaker2                                                                                        07:48


Speaker3                                                                                        08:00


I mean, if it's Again, and then people listening to this and people when I tell the story, they they think it, like, just ridiculous because you couldn't imagine it.

But, yeah, I mean, it's only a three or four foot you know, sharks.

So why not?

Just just grab it.

Speaker2                                                                                        08:11


And I mean, the truth is once they're out of the water, it's not that they can't hurt you, but they're a lot less help they're more helpless when they're out of the water.

Speaker3                                                                                        08:19


You just gotta have the the person who's holding the head pay very close a attention to what they're doing.

That's pretty much it.

Speaker2                                                                                        08:23

That was the rule.

Did you ever get injured at all?

Speaker3                                                                                        08:37


Not really.

Not by any sharks.

I it's funny because I I thought for the longest time, what would have been cool is some kinda non life threatening shark scar, like, being bitten and having, like, this cool thing on my leg that I could point to.

But, no, that never happened.

Speaker3                                                                                        09:01

You know, some some fishing related, equipment related stuff, but never never shark related.

Other than the fact that their skin is like sandpaper, if you've ever felt it, it's like sandpaper and they say it's true.

So when you're holding one, like like a log at your chest and it starts rolling and twitching, then, you know, it burns.

But other than that, no.

And, of course, all of this is totally related to my sales consulting.

Speaker2                                                                                        09:09

Well, I don't know.

I I think sometimes sales does feel like shark wrangling.


Speaker0                                                                                        09:11


Speaker3                                                                                        09:14

Dealing with actual sharks in the water is way easier.

Speaker2                                                                                        09:17



Speaker3                                                                                        09:22

very predictable.

They go one direction.

They have one thing in mind, and that's very easy to predict and mitigate.

Speaker2                                                                                        09:29


So so what really got you into sales, though?

What kind of

Speaker0                                                                                        09:29


Speaker3                                                                                        09:47

You know, for me, it was I Microsoft ended contracts ended.

They moved all the jobs to China and India for the first time in outsourcing, which now people take for granted and assume has just always been that way.

And I needed a job.

Family friend said, hey.

There's a guy who's growing his mortgage business.

Speaker3                                                                                        09:58

You should do that.

It was the height of or getting to be the height of the real estate boom at the time, 2002, 2003.

And so I went into it.

It seemed like it wasn't selling.

It wasn't sales.

Speaker3                                                                                        10:16

It didn't require a lot of convincing.

I didn't get any training, and I made lots of mistakes that cost me lots of money because I was still doing it wrong and learned a lot of lessons that I still use to today and myself and for others in that process, which just started me on this journey of of selling and sales.

Speaker2                                                                                        10:21


Now when did you decide to start your own consulting group?

Speaker3                                                                                        10:26

So mentally, I decided to do that around

Speaker0                                                                                        10:28


Speaker3                                                                                        10:55

It didn't actually take shape until the end of 2018, but Another sidebar, I was working as a government contractor overseas as a civilian, a lot of time on my hands, and I realized everything that I had done sales and business, like, would be the perfect use as a consultant because I've done it internally.

Now I could do it externally.

So that's great.

So I started the process of getting my MBA, which I earned in

Speaker0                                                                                        10:56


Speaker3                                                                                        11:28

And before I could actually go into consulting, somebody I knew had made me an offer to come work for him.

And so I essentially worked as a consultant, not with that title, but with that kind of approach internally and was, like, the one who fixed departments, started departments, started offices, you know, built out systems and processes.

internally as an employee did that for 3 years.

And then when that ended, I was like, okay.

Now is the time for me to go officially into this and do this for other people on, you know, contract basis.

Speaker2                                                                                        11:42



That is really cool.

I like your story.

And and, you know, what it shows me is the fact that sometimes we don't know what we're gonna kinda fall into.

Speaker2                                                                                        12:03

you know, I I never thought that I would be a publisher.

It was not something in my game plan for my life.

And yet, you know, certain circumstances happened.

And, you know, I I started doing free freelance writing, realized how much I loved it in people wanted additional services.

And then within a year, I've got a publishing company.

Speaker3                                                                                        12:04

That's awesome.

Speaker2                                                                                        12:26

You know?

So, like, I think the point is is is that as an entrepreneur, even though if you've never done this before, you know, it wasn't in your game plan.

But you don't have to have had the past to be able to be an entrepreneur now.

And many of the lessons that you've learned along the way in different areas actually help you as an entrepreneur.

Speaker3                                                                                        13:13


So for me, the toughest part was the mental for the longest time I beat myself up in my own head about my windy path and how I didn't follow the standard model of what you're supposed to do go to college.

You get a degree, get a career you know, have a career, start a family, do all those things, and I didn't.

And then I realized later on, like, those experiences actually made me who I was and the ability to do what I do with a wide range of different people and conversations and persuading, and all of that was actually very valuable, plus being self aware enough to know what my strengths are and what I'm really good at.

and what I can really do to benefit other people and what that value actually is and leaning more on that.

Speaker2                                                                                        13:33

Well, let's kinda get into our main topic for today, and that's transform from an order taker to a quota breaker.

And I know you've got some things prepared.

So I'm gonna let you loose for a bit to share what you've got prepared, and then we're gonna talk about it.

Speaker3                                                                                        14:11

So I think the biggest thing is that, you know, in that formula, which is authentic persuasion, there's 2 important pieces.

And, you know, like you just mentioned, what I see a lot in the world of people who are supposed to be selling, right, whether you're in a cubicle on a phone and you're supposed to be, you know, closing deals, or you're a coach or a consultant, and there's a sales aspect prior to you getting to do what you really wanna do, which is that coaching or that consulting.

There's a sales piece.

So I'm not just talking to you know, who you think, okay.

They're in a call center or they're on a on a car lots trying to sell a car.

Speaker3                                                                                        14:46

There's I mean, I say it's all time.

Everything in life is sales.

And so it's very important, but there's a lot of people who operate like an order taker.

They're giving information.

They're hoping someone buy buys from them, and they don't wanna persuade because they see that as manipulation, and they're afraid that, you know, to be successful in sales takes being that person you see in the movies, that's just ripping people off, manipulating lying, you know, using sales tactics, using these closing lines, trapping people, using NLP, and doing all of these things that people don't wanna do because they have, like, when it's done to them, so they choose

Speaker2                                                                                        14:46


Speaker3                                                                                        15:09

do nothing.

So what I teach and help people understand is the power in authentic persuasion, which the first part, you know, on the practical side, is knowing who you are being self aware.

Like I I mentioned a few minutes ago, understanding your strengths?

Like, what is it that you really are good at?

For me, I'm really good at solving problems, taking things apart, understanding how it works.

Speaker3                                                                                        15:22

I'm terrible at putting things back together.

So if I take apart the remote for the TV, it will we'll just buy a sec.

I'll know how it works.

but we'll need to buy another one because I won't know how to put it back together.

It's also why I don't work on my own car because I can take it apart.

Speaker3                                                                                        15:39

I just can't put it back together.

So but I I wanna know how it works, and then I wanna solve problems, and I wanna make things better.

When I was younger, I didn't really think I liked people because I was a late bloomer.

People were strange to me and and not nice growing up.

And so I focused it on on certain things.

Speaker3                                                                                        15:44

That's why the sharks Right?

That's problem solving and understanding, and then I shift it to people.

So what are your

Speaker2                                                                                        15:45

And they don't talk back.

Speaker3                                                                                        15:53

They they don't talk back.

It's very nice.


Like, it's way better than when I worked in a restaurant.

waiting tables and people to talk back or want, you know, certain things.

Speaker3                                                                                        16:04

So, you know, it's it's it was always easier.

And, like, I learned what my strengths are and what my weaknesses are.


And then also the other thing from a practical side is that we all have fears.


Speaker3                                                                                        16:08

The thing is there's a part of all of our brains that is still stuck

Speaker0                                                                                        16:09


Speaker3                                                                                        16:38

and 1000 years ago on the Savannah, on the plains, in a cave, fighting for survival, worried about eating the wrong berry, worried about animals that might jump out and kill us at any moment, and our brain still thinks that.

So it holds people back.

Like, if you call somebody and they don't buy from you, that means nothing, and it's not going to kill you.

But our ego is so afraid of that because an attack at our ego is the same thing.

They Might has well had shot us, and we're now bleeding to death.

Speaker3                                                                                        16:58

That's our our brain doesn't know the difference.


And so a lot of people who are in sales, they're a trade of moving conversations forward because their ego is keeping them in their comfort zone.

And so that's one of the things too is understand where the fear is stopping you, understand where that is keeping you from what you want and then working on that.


Speaker3                                                                                        17:11

Some people, like I talked to somebody yesterday, no fear public speaking, no fear of asking for sales, definitely is never gonna bungee jump.


So people have different fear levels in different areas in their life.

And so it's okay.

Speaker2                                                                                        17:12


That's probably me.

You have

Speaker3                                                                                        17:15

no fear.

That's right.

And that's me too.



Speaker0                                                                                        17:16


Speaker2                                                                                        17:17

Put me on the stage.

Speaker3                                                                                        17:17

I I am

Speaker0                                                                                        17:17


Speaker2                                                                                        17:18

Let me sell.


Speaker3                                                                                        17:19



Speaker2                                                                                        17:20

am not bungee jumping.

Speaker3                                                                                        17:33


Bunchy jumping, skydiving.

None of that makes sense to me.

I'm I'm exactly the same way.

And so it's really about where are you confident in your in other areas, and where can you apply that in what you do for the sales side.

Speaker3                                                                                        17:48

So that's that's something.

And the other the other part on the authentic piece is really about understanding why you wanna be successful in whatever you're doing.


So if you have some sales aspect, why?

I mean, the first thing I have everyone do that I work with create a vision board.

Speaker3                                                                                        18:00

Might sound silly.

Might sound like a weird art project.

Create a vision board of what you want and why so that when somebody says no, you know why you wanna pick up the phone and ask somebody else again

Speaker0                                                                                        18:00


Speaker2                                                                                        18:00


Speaker0                                                                                        18:00


Speaker3                                                                                        18:12

to try to buy from you and what it's all for.


What's important to you at this moment in your life, buying a house, buying a car, going on vacation, having savings doesn't matter.


It's individual.

Speaker3                                                                                        18:14

So that's the authentic piece.

Speaker2                                                                                        18:44

Well, you know, when you were when you're talking about taking things apart and not able to put them back together, You know, my dad was a pretty smart man and, you know, very good with computers, incredible with compete people, you know, had good professional acumen.

Like, he was just this really great person, but he wasn't really good at fixing things.

He he could he had enough knowledge to be dangerous.

Speaker3                                                                                        18:46


Speaker2                                                                                        19:07

And it was funny because there was quite a few times because my husband's like the ultimate computer guru electronic person, And his nickname is MacGyver because he can just fix just about anything.

And sometimes with the role of duct tape and a paper clip.

Like, he's just that type of person.


And I can remember my dad would call.

Speaker2                                                                                        19:22

And my dad didn't call very often, but every once in a while, he call and, you know, get chatting and need to say, hey, dear.

How are you doing?

And we chat and invariably, the conversation we go.

My dear is is Ross around by any chance.

And I already knew what had happened.

Speaker2                                                                                        19:40

His dad had tried to fix something, and it didn't go well.

So You know, him and my husband would talk.

And then the next time we went up to visit, Ross would bring all of his tools, and him and my dad would fix whatever it is my dad had tried to fix and couldn't.

Speaker3                                                                                        20:15

That's awesome.

Well and and I think what's interesting is is If we look at that too, you said your dad knew knew enough to be dangerous, which I think people everyone knows someone like that or we have an area in our life like that.

I see a lot of people who are in sales that are kind of that same way or should be selling where they think they know enough to be dangerous, but they're not a effective.


Like, they're more of a a hazard to themselves and others because they're missing the pieces of, you know, and the knowledge and the wisdom and the skills to put that thing back together, right, to make that sale happen.

Speaker3                                                                                        20:18

But they think they know it.


They think they know sales.


I know sales.

Speaker3                                                                                        20:22

I know coaching.

I know consulting.

Like, I'm really good.

Like but do you know sales?

Speaker2                                                                                        21:00


And, you know, I think as an entrepreneur, you know, kinda touched on that in the beginning to for many entrepreneurs, and I especially see this more in professionals and, like you said, coaches and and consultants, sales becomes the s word.

It's like the necessary evil that they have to do to get to what they really want.

And I think I think that perception that mindset really needs to change.

Because you can't really grow a business without some sort of sales system.

Speaker2                                                                                        21:09

And for me, I the sales part of my business is actually the beginning of a new relationship.

Speaker3                                                                                        21:11

It is.

Speaker2                                                                                        21:20

You know, that's when I I get to start to know people is through that sales process.

And, you know, unlike everybody else, I don't get a

Speaker0                                                                                        21:20


Speaker2                                                                                        21:28


You know?

I get yeses.

I get nose and I get the you know what?

It's not the right time.

Speaker2                                                                                        21:45

Those are the three things I get.

And so but the relationship that's what I focus in on is the relationship because that's, to me, the valuable part.

And I find when you focus in on that, it makes the selling part a lot easier.

Speaker3                                                                                        21:57

And I think the key is is to focus on relationships because it's all personal.


Like, there's there's terms now floating around.

You people might be familiar with this.

Like, b b to b.

Speaker3                                                                                        22:08


So there's business to somebody who's selling software or something to a company.

Then there's b to c or d to c, which is direct to consumer, business to, you know, consumer.


I'm selling something to an individual.

Speaker3                                                                                        22:27

And then there's people who are now pushing more of the h to h, which is human to human.

Like, no matter what it is, even if you're the marketing director at a company, or you're somebody struggling with writing a book, then it's still a human.

It's me as a human dealing with you as a human.

How can I help you?

How can we build a relationship?

Speaker3                                                                                        22:46

How can I care about you?

And there's a large part of the sales world and people who are in sales who think that's soft and maybe that's weak, and that's not what sales is about.

Sales is about closing deals and moving on.


And, you know, derogatory term, like, bro culture, which is just, like, all about what you see.

Speaker3                                                                                        22:54

It's the the wolf of Wall Street.

It's the boiler room type of sales attitude.

But that's not what people want.

I mean, it works to a certain extent.

people can pull it off, but that's not what they want.

Speaker3                                                                                        23:08

They want the relationship.

They wanna know you care about them.

And then this is the part where people struggle and fail on the sales side is they're they wanna start building a relationship.

They care.

They lots of rapport, lots of empathy.

Speaker3                                                                                        23:21

maybe even some questions, but then they're not moving it forward towards the relationship.

And and a good example I use all the time because most people can relate.

is courtship and dating.


So imagine you wanna go out with somebody.

Speaker3                                                                                        23:27

You go out on one date.

At the end of the day, you're like, okay.

That was fun.

If you ever wanna do this again, just let me know.


Speaker3                                                                                        23:32

And then you just walk away.

And then that's it.

And that's what that's what people do in sales.


They don't say,

Speaker2                                                                                        23:34

this is good.

I like that.

Speaker3                                                                                        23:40

I think this is a really good fit.

I would like to see where this goes.

What are you doing on Friday?



Speaker0                                                                                        23:40


Speaker3                                                                                        23:58


-- like moving it forward in the conversation towards the relationship.


Like, if you're dating a relationship, theoretically, some aspect act aspect of that is Is this a long term fit?

Could this be someone I'm gonna view with long term and or marriage and or kids wherever you wanna go with it?

Speaker3                                                                                        24:15

And not just, hey.

We just had coffee once in the you know, let you just let me know.

And same thing with sales.

Like, a lot of what you're talking about and what I help you with is that is literally the start of the the relationship, even if you're selling software to a company.

Once the sale closes, now the work begins.

Speaker3                                                                                        24:25

Same thing with consultants and coaches.

So you've gotta take it forward.

You gotta keep moving forward if it's a good fit with the intention of, like, long term.

Speaker2                                                                                        24:56


And and, you know, it was funny.

Like, I I told you, got a new client this morning.

Well, her and I get on the phone, And, you know, within and this doesn't always happen, but it was one of those days where within 5 minutes, we realized she's one year older than me.

So we realized that at the same age we got engaged, at the same age we got married, at the same month like, we got married in the same month 1 year apart.

Speaker2                                                                                        25:17

We got we had our first children the same month 1 year apart.

Like, it was just it was, like, hilarious.

We spent the whole first twenty minutes of the phone call laughing because there was just so much similarities.

And I think that's that's something that's key.

You know, I work with a lot of very diverse people.

Speaker2                                                                                        25:40

But there's always commonalities that you can draw from.

But one thing that you really we're talking about and let's focus in on that for a few minutes.

Is how do you how do you you know, you're having this amazing cough station.

You're developing that relationship.

You know, you're, you know, you're feeling really good about this potential client.

Speaker2                                                                                        25:55

How do you transition that into, let's say, a soft close?

because not everybody's ready for a full close.

But, like, what are some of the ways that you can do, like, what they call, like, a softer trial close to see see interest level?

Speaker3                                                                                        26:33

I mean, for me, it's making that transition from the rapport, the empathy, the get to getting to know you to building trust.

And the way to do the empathy and trust step is asking questions.

and digging deep and asking as many questions as you can to get as deep as they will let you with whatever information And the fundamental thing that you have to be able to answer if you want to be a selling professional, again, in a Cube or as a consultant, whatever that looks like, is you have to know why do they need what you have to sell if it's a good fit.

Now, obviously, there's times where and it's not a good fit.


Speaker3                                                                                        26:38


I can't help you.

You you need to go do something else.

Here's a recommendation.

Here's a referral.

Speaker3                                                                                        26:58

Best of luck with that.


And that's a whole different topic.

But if it's a good fit, you need to know why do they need what you have to offer for their reasons, not why you have the features, Not not what's in the brochure, not why you think you're so amazing, not what your Yelp reviews say about you.

Like, nobody cares about that stuff.

Speaker3                                                                                        27:10

in the beginning.


They care about themselves.

It's what's in it for me, and that's all that matters.

And so as a sales person or a person with some sales aspect, you've gotta understand why do they want it.

Speaker3                                                                                        27:44

And as soon as you uncover that, then it's game on in the conversation because now you're taking what they need and want, and then you're you've diagnosed what it is, and then you're now prescribing like a doctor, and you're telling them, okay.

Based on what you said and based on x, y, and z, Here's why this would be the best fit for you.


And then kind of like that doctor analogy is you just assume, like, There's trial closers, soft closers, hard closers, all these things.

I just assume you have problem x.

Speaker3                                                                                        27:51

I have solution x.


The next step is let's go ahead and get you started.


Like, literally, I've told people that.

Speaker3                                                                                        28:02


So based on this information, it sounds like the best thing to do is to work together.

and for you to sign up for this program.

I need to get some information from you.

Go ahead and grab your credit card while I get some some info from you.

Speaker3                                                                                        28:17

Like, we're just done.

I I don't even need to ask you if you'd like to do it because you've given me permission in this conversation to explore.

We've explored You've come to me with a broken leg.

I've diagnosed the broken leg.

Now we're gonna fix the broken leg.

Speaker3                                                                                        28:18

Any questions?

Speaker2                                                                                        28:25

That's it.

I really like that.

Speaker3                                                                                        28:52

You know?

And -- And the thing is is I can you I wouldn't say get away with it, but when you do it from a place of caring and empathy and knowing what's best for the people you can help and knowing what the outcome will be with you and what the outcome is is, like, without you and your help, then it comes from a different place power where it's like, I'm doing this for you because it's my duty and responsibility.

If we hang up the phone and you don't buy from me, I don't know what's gonna happen to you.

Speaker2                                                                                        29:25


And, I mean, I know for some people, what you've just said probably is going to scare them to pieces because that's probably something so new and and revolutionary to them.

But I remember the first time that I don't use quite that wording.

I'm probably a little softer in my wording, but I remember the first time I really felt that kind of attitude that I could just assume the sale.

And it was scary.

Speaker2                                                                                        29:36

I didn't wanna do it because it kinda goes you know, it it it made me feel uncomfortable.

But I remember when I did it and the person said, Okay.


Here's my information.

Let's get started.

Speaker2                                                                                        29:47

And I went it's good thing they couldn't see my face.

It was over the phone because I'm like, Oh.

That worked.


Like, on the inside, oh, yes.

Speaker2                                                                                        29:49






Speaker2                                                                                        30:08

But it it does.

Like, you you have to know that what you provide is valuable and is valuable to that that person.

And here's the thing.

By assuming the sale, if the person's not really ready to go move forward, they are gonna tell you no.

Speaker3                                                                                        30:13

They will stop you.

Let let them stop you.

Don't stop yourself.

Speaker2                                                                                        30:25



because I think we get in our minds.

We assume they're not going to buy.

And so we have to change that mindset and assume they are going to buy.

Speaker3                                                                                        30:43

And this we assume like, this is what I see a lot, and this is where that order taker category comes in, is they assume that they the order taker type person assumes that the prospects not gonna wanna buy, doesn't understand why they would wanna buy, doesn't see the value, and then also either can't afford it or isn't willing to pay for it.

Speaker2                                                                                        30:59


I think we've hit a really good point where we can kinda close off this section and then we'll we'll pick up the conversation because I know you still have some more stuff to share.

So how can people connect with you?

And we'll we'll continue this in part

Speaker0                                                                                        31:00


Speaker3                                                                                        31:19

The simplest way that I have been doing recently is if you go to,

It's a hub for lots of different things.

So I have my consulting website.

I have the authentic persuasion website.

I'm very active on LinkedIn.

Speaker3                                                                                        31:29

But if you go to, like, all of it's there with a hub of buttons to find various resources, courses, programs that I have, and, you know, get in touch with me through that.

Speaker2                                                                                        31:50


Well, thanks so much.

This has been Jason Cutter and Kim Thompson Pender on the off or to authority podcast.

Thanks so much for listening.

Don't forget to tune in to the next episode where we are going to continue this conversation, and we will see you on the very next episode.

Speaker2                                                                                        31:51

Bye now.

Speaker0                                                                                        32:27

to the author to authority podcast.

The extraordinary word Ninja, Kim Thomson.

has helped over 200 entrepreneurs, professionals, speakers, and coaches write and publish their books that have become incredible marketing tools for their business, and many of those have gone on to become Amazon best selling authors and have used their books to land high level clients and get on big stages.

We hope you've enjoyed the show.

Make sure to like rate and review, and we'll be back soon.

Speaker0                                                                                        32:27

But in meantime, hit the website at

See you, next time.