Author to Authority
Ep 384 - How To Have High Converting Sales Conversations With Jason Cutter PT 2
July 10, 2023
In this week's episode, Kim speaks with Jason Cutter, CEO of Cutter Consulting, for part two of their amazing discussion about the sales process and how to take your sales conversations to the next level. Jason shares his expertise on the five critical steps of successful sales: building rapport, showing empathy, gaining trust, inspiring hope, and creating urgency. Learn how to build genuine connections with your customers by asking great questions and listening actively. Discover how to create a sense of urgency and guarantee your customers' satisfaction.
In this week's episode, Kim speaks with Jason Cutter, CEO of Cutter Consulting, for part two of their amazing discussion about the sales process and how to take your sales conversations to the next level. Jason shares his expertise on the five critical steps of successful sales: building rapport, showing empathy, gaining trust, inspiring hope, and creating urgency. Learn how to build genuine connections with your customers by asking great questions and listening actively. Discover how to create a sense of urgency and guarantee your customers' satisfaction.

In addition to their discussion on sales, Kim and Jason also share their experiences in writing and publishing books. They discuss their struggles picking out catchy titles and how they overcame their self-doubt to become successful authors of multiple books. They also encourage openness and abundance in sales and offer tips on how to build valuable relationships with your clients.

Don't forget to visit Jason's website,, where you can find links to his sales coaching and consulting services, as well as his podcast, "The Sales Experience." Tune in now and take your business one step closer to success. 

Kim has assisted more than 200 people in writing and publishing books that have proven to be effective marketing tools for their businesses. Many of these authors have reached best-seller status on Amazon and have leveraged their books to attract high-profile clients and secure speaking engagements. Fans of the podcast can find more resources and get in touch with Kim at

Don’t miss out! Tune in to the Author to Authority podcast and transform yourself from an order taker to a quota breaker in the world of sales. Don't forget to leave a rating or review on the website before signing off and look out for the next episode.

Jason Cutter
CEO, Mindset and Scalability Expert
Cutter Consulting Group
Jason Cutter, CEO of Cutter Consulting Group, is a mindset and scalability expert focused on developing Authentic Persuaders®. Even though his bachelor’s degree is in Marine Biology, he knows what it takes to be successful in sales and build profitable teams. His books, podcasts, training workshops and speaking are focused on helping sales professionals close more deals, make more money, and produce scalable results.

Main Hub/Link:

Authentic Persuasion:



[00:00:02] Overcoming Sales Fear

[00:04:43] Overcoming Sales Stereotypes and the Fundamentals of Sales

[00:08:08] Balancing Rapport and Empathy in Sales

[00:10:50] Selling at Trade Shows

[00:14:01] Effective Sales Relationship Building

[00:17:11] Overcoming fear of change in sales

[00:20:18] The Importance of Journey-Based Conversations in Sales

[00:23:15] Discovering the Core Framework of a Book

[00:26:48] Sales Success with Authentic Persuasion


A to A Ep 384 - A.mp3

Speaker0                                                                                        00:18

You are an entrepreneur, a professional, a speaker, or a coach.

And although you come a long way.

It's time for you to take it to the next level.

We've got you.

This is the Author to Authority Podcast

Speaker0                                                                                        00:48

We'll help you use authority and influencer marketing to build your business stronger and faster by publishing a book.

You'll hear from guests that are thought leaders in sales, marketing, networking, communication, social media, promotion, and business leadership.

Let's do it.

This is the author to authority podcast.

now your host, the extraordinary word Ninja, Kim Thompson-Pinder.

Speaker1                                                                                        01:52

Welcome to the author to authority podcast on your host Kim Thompson-Pinder.

And I'm so excited to announce that in August, we will be having the 400 episode of the author to authority podcast.

And in celebration of that, I have decided to do the top 25 episodes of the author to authority podcast for the whole summer.

And we will celebrate the 400th about mid August, so there'll be a couple of episodes after that.

And I chose these episodes because they were the ones that I just amount of value that we're going to help you as an entrepreneur, professional, a speaker, a coach, to move your business forward.

Speaker1                                                                                        02:29

These were value packed episodes that are just going to give you action steps that are just going to really propel you to the next level.

So I'd love for you to sit back, relax, and enjoy this top 25 episode.

Welcome to the author to authority podcast.

And today, we are doing part 2 of a wonderful series that I've been doing with Jason Cutter.

And Jason is the CEO of Cutter Consulting.

Speaker1                                                                                        02:43

And we had an amazing conversation on the last episode which ended with talking about assuming the sale.

So, Jason, welcome back to the show.

Speaker2                                                                                        02:47

Thanks, Kim.

I'm excited for seeing where part 2 goes.

Speaker1                                                                                        03:19

And, you know, in part 1, we we kinda talked about a lot of different things, including Jason's journey to becoming a sales consultant, including tagging GreatWhite sharks.

That was very interesting.

So if you missed part 1, you're going to want to go back and listen to that.

But in today's episode, we wanna focus in on some of the processes.

Because we we talked in general about sales and about entrepreneurs and how sometimes we're afraid you know, to take that next step.

Speaker1                                                                                        03:40

You know, we get we get the relationship part.

You know, we're learning how to sell and be authentic.

But there's that fear of taking it to the next step.

And so in this episode, we're gonna focus in on, you know, How do you what's the process of these conversations?

What does it look like?

Speaker1                                                                                        03:52

And then how do you get it to that sales point?

So, Jason, why don't you just take a quick moment again?

because if someone didn't hear the first episode, and just do a really quick introduction of yourself.

Speaker2                                                                                        04:27


So I am a sales consultant, so I have my company.

I help sales teams and individuals with improving their selling effectiveness.

Generally, it's people who are selling over the phone, but to me, sales is sales.

So any salesperson selling anything, either to consumers or businesses, help with anything from scripts to to mindset, to coaching, to technology, And my book that's coming out selling with authentic persuasion is based on the fact that for me, I wasn't a natural born salesperson.

Speaker2                                                                                        04:53

So I my bachelor's degree in marine biology did not grow up in a I actually grew up in an anti sales household where my mom as a banker She saw the scams and she saw people who are ripped off by being in a bank and had to deal with all of those fraud claims all the time.

And so she saw salespeople, especially bad ones.

as evil and something to be weary of.

And so that's what I grew up in.

I didn't grow up in a sales household.

Speaker2                                                                                        05:05

And yet, here I am, and I think there's a lot of power in that, and that's what I help people embrace is not having to like you had to be naturally born or naturally gifted to be effective in sales.

Speaker1                                                                                        05:08

So how does your mom feel about you now?

Speaker2                                                                                        05:22

I mean so here's the thing.


So she does not like dishonest bad people who are manipulating and trying to get their own benefit.

She appreciates and loves good customer service.

She loves a good salesperson.

Speaker2                                                                                        05:45


So so, for example, when I was a kid, know, only child didn't have a choice, had to, you know, go with my parents wherever they went.

Every few years, we would go buy a car, and many times on a Sunday evening, I would spend 4 or 5 hours at a dealership in the lobby or in the waiting area watching TV while my mom is literally battling back and forth with some car salesperson.



Speaker2                                                                                        05:55

Who's trying to get one over on her and she doesn't wanna get get taken advantage of, and so it's back and forth.


Even bringing in the manager.

Let me go talk to my manager.

Like, all of those tricks that they use.

Speaker2                                                                                        06:12

And so But my mom has bought cars from other people who, you know, they care.

They ask questions.

They give her a good deal.

It's a relationship, kind of what we talked about in one where it's a long term thing where, you know, they're doing the right thing for a customer and then hoping to get referrals.

My mom loves that.

Speaker2                                                                                        06:34

And in fact, When I started working in restaurants as a waiter, I would explain things to my mom, and then she saw things different from the inside of working in a restaurant.

even though she hadn't.

And so she, as a customer, became totally more empathetic, a much bigger tipper, much nicer to servers because I had gone through that.

And so she's open to it.

She likes people.

Speaker2                                                                                        06:39

She just doesn't like manipulative people with bad intent.



Speaker1                                                                                        06:53



So I know that you've come prepared to talk more about the processes of sales.

So I'm gonna let you loose again.

to share, and then we will talk about that.

Speaker1                                                                                        06:58

And then at the end, we're gonna talk about your new book coming out and your writing journey.

Speaker2                                                                                        07:30


So the fundamental thing that I teach everyone, I think it applies.

Like, I I consider this the sales success fundamentals is, for me, every successful sales process Every successful persuasion kind of situation involves 5 parts.

And the key is they must be done in order and they must be done completely.

Those five parts are rapport, empathy, trust, hope, and urgency.

Speaker2                                                                                        07:44

And so the key is that order too.

And and it's funny because it doesn't spell anything good or sexy.

Like, refuse is the best I can come up with.

I came up with that 10 years ago.

And, you know, you always wanna have something catchy where it's like, oh, cool.

Speaker2                                                                                        07:53

This is my 5 step method, and it spells out this nope.

I I literally can't massage it.

I can't change the terms.

It's a mess, but it works.

So that's what I've got.

Speaker2                                                                                        08:18

I I've tried in it.

It just I I can't change it.

So the key is that, you know, we talked about this in part 1, building the rapport, you know, starting off in some way.

Now here's where the challenge like we also talked about last time which is some people spend too much time at rapport.

They end up with no sales and new Facebook friends and new new recipes they didn't know about new restaurants or new sports they're gonna check out, but no sales.

Speaker2                                                                                        08:40

And so you've gotta do the rapport stuff, but you can't live in the rapport stuff.

And rapport is also something you sprinkling throughout.


You know, kinda going back to what I talked about in the last one as well is using the medical profession and a doctor as an example.

We've all had experiences where we've gone to a doctor that has a terrible bedside manner because there's no rapport There seems to be no empathy.

Speaker2                                                                                        08:49

They're all business, and it's terrible.

They might be very effective, but it doesn't leave you with a good experience.


They might be the world's best brain surgeon.

but you still don't like them.

Speaker2                                                                                        09:07


You're thankful, but you don't like them.

And you don't really wanna buy from them again.

Hopefully, you don't have to go to a brain surgeon again.

But, like, we've all had that, and so you wanna make sure you do the right amount of rapport, not too much and not too little, whatever it it is necessary for what you're selling and who the other person is and what's natural.

Speaker2                                                                                        09:14

Then the next part is empathy.

And you can't just tell people you care.

Hey, Kim.

I really care about you.

Would you like to buy?

Speaker2                                                                                        09:19


Like, that doesn't work.

It also doesn't work to say, hey, Kim.

You can trust me.

I'm a good guy.

Speaker2                                                                                        09:20


Because that's what

Speaker0                                                                                        09:20

-- --

Speaker1                                                                                        09:24

big smile on your face as the person goes, you slimy.

Speaker2                                                                                        09:33


You can't.

Like, people who say you can trust me, that's the indication that you can't trust them because if you could trust them, they wouldn't have to ask for it.


Speaker1                                                                                        09:35

And they wouldn't have to tell you either.

Speaker2                                                                                        09:51

And they wouldn't have to tell you it's coming, and they wouldn't tell you, I care about you.

Like, okay.

What's the catch?

Like, there's something weird about this.

And so what I found the best way to do it and, again, any kind of sale, you could be selling software to businesses or, you know, to individual individual selling them something.

Speaker2                                                                                        10:06

is that to do the empathy step is about asking questions and then understanding the other person.

I talked about this last time where it's about uncovering what What makes them tick?

What they want?

Why they want it?

What wakes them up at 2 o'clock in the morning?

Speaker2                                                                                        10:28

What are they hoping to accomplish relative to whatever it is that you're selling?

And so when you do that, it shows empathy because you're asking they're telling you, and it fundamentally satisfies the thing that most people know about, but they forget is that people don't know how much you care until they, you know, they they know they they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

Speaker1                                                                                        10:29


Speaker2                                                                                        10:47


Because a lot of salespeople start out of the gate with, hey.

How are you?

Let's build a little report.

Now let me give you my long monologue and read from my sure and read from how awesome I am and all of my stats and how great my company is and what kind of clients I've helped, and they go into all these things, and nobody cares.

Speaker2                                                                                        11:14

Your your prospects and your yeah.

But and and I go to a lot of trade shows, and I help my clients actually sell more effectively from trade shows, from you know, back when that was legal when you can actually go to shows and and talk to people and and meet people is that, you know, you walk up to a booth, and the first thing somebody does is they just instantly start giving this long monologue about what they do.

And then 3 minutes later, you realize, wait.

I don't want this nor is it a good fit, and you just they just wasted their time.

They just wasted your time.

Speaker2                                                                                        11:25

So for me, I usually don't even explain anything about what I do until I've asked questions and under understood if it makes sense to even go that route and then do it.

I've got

Speaker1                                                                                        11:33

a great example for you.


Put a great example for you.

So I was in a a cosmetic MLM company.

for a long time.

Speaker1                                                                                        11:49

It was a great way for me to earn money, you know, when my kids were were younger.

And I was at a a vendor show.

So similar to a trade show.

And I was just walking around because I needed to take a break.

He likes you sometimes you just have to get out of the booth.

Speaker1                                                                                        12:10


Like, And so I was just taking I was just meandering.

You know, I wasn't really looking to buy anything, but I like talking to the other vendors and see how their day is going.

So a lady stopped me, and she was from a competitor company, sold the same type of products.

And she went in she didn't ask me who I was, didn't talk to me.

Speaker1                                                                                        12:21

She know what?

She went into full scale, you know, sales mold.


And I said to her, I said, well, you know, I'm with this company.

Like, I told her which company I'm with, and she knew the name.

Speaker1                                                                                        12:46


And she's like, well, you can still buy a lipstick from me.

And I'm like, okay, let me ask you a question.

I said, let's say I bought your lipstick, and I put it on, and someone who knows that I sell for this particular company likes it And then I tell them it's from a competitor company.

I said, how does that make me look?

Speaker1                                                                                        12:52

She's like, oh, that would be amazing.

I would get more sales.

I thought, oh, lady.

Speaker2                                                                                        13:12

And and to me, when I hear that that triggers 2 things.

One is the epitome of or a great example of when somebody's doing it wrong sales wise, and it's all about them and not about you.

And then also one of the reasons why a lot of people don't like somebody who sells MLM type products

Speaker0                                                                                        13:12


Speaker2                                                                                        13:12


Speaker0                                                                                        13:13


Speaker2                                                                                        13:18

and that kind of approach and attitude, which is everybody should be buying from me no matter what.

Speaker1                                                                                        13:31


And, you know, when I did shows, I did.


I mean, I was doing probably 40, 50 vendor shows a year, sometimes more.

You know, if someone if I got talking to someone and they were from a different company, I never tried to sell them anything.

Speaker1                                                                                        13:39

I just enjoyed the conversation.

You know, if it was really slow at my table, you know, because usually about mid in.

It always slows down.

So you go talk to people.


Speaker1                                                                                        14:08

And my I would just really enjoy the conversation, and we'd get into conversations about, you know, how do you sell?

How do you create relationships?

And it came out that it actually became very collaborative because some times, they sold maybe similar products, but there might be a product that they sell that my company doesn't.

So it actually became a collaborative process.

And sometimes we actually did end up buying from each other, but it was a friendship and a relationship.

Speaker2                                                                                        14:09


Speaker1                                                                                        14:24

And it was a referral thing because if someone asked me, you know, for that product that I knew that other lady sold because she treated me with spectrum relationship, I would say, Drew, you know what?

I don't sell it, but I know who does.

Speaker2                                                                                        14:52



And for me, the key with that, which is what I focus on and help people understand and It it divides that persuading people, the right people to move forward versus manipulating everybody to move forward is coming from a place of abundance and understanding that 8 billion people on the planet.

There's more than enough for everybody.

You don't need all of them to be successful, and so there's more than enough to go around.

Speaker2                                                                                        15:02

And when it's the right person for your product or service, then it should be a no brainer.

And if it's the wrong person, then wish them well.

Speaker1                                                                                        15:08



I'll let you continue.

I know you have some more to share there.

Speaker2                                                                                        15:17

So no.

And and that's great.

And I I think that's important because that goes into this next part, which is, you know, we're we're asking questions.

We're uncovering.

By doing that, we're building empathy.

Speaker2                                                                                        15:30

One of the things I tell people all the time to do if you're in sales is talk less.

Most people talk a lot.

They do their monologues.

They're talking too much.

as my grandma used to say, you have two ears and one mouth.

Speaker2                                                                                        15:54

So listen twice as much as you talk.

Sales people, unless you're doing a demo, Unless you're doing, like, a here's how everything works.

Let me show you under the hood type of demo.

Your prospect, your prospective customer should be talking 2 thirds of the time, and you should be talking 1 third of the time.

Most salespeople are worried about that because they feel like it's their job to lecture and and and educate and you know, persuade.

Speaker2                                                                                        16:09

It's really not like you do it correctly.

The other person will persuade themselves, which is what you want.

You want them to buy from you.

You don't ever wanna have to sell them on why they should buy from you.

And to do that, the best way is ask lots of questions.

Speaker2                                                                                        16:26

When in doubt, if it feels like you're ask you're talking too much, ask more questions.

And so when you do that and they're talking about themselves, they feel like you care And then they feel like they can trust you without you having to say, you can trust me.

It's okay, Kim.

I care about you.

I will help you.

Speaker2                                                                                        16:49

Don't worry.


so you don't have to do those things or feel like you have to memorize certain, like, transitions or closing tactics.

And then once they trust you and you under you uncover what we talked about in the last episode, which is why do they want what you have, then the next part is the hope stage, right, which is okay.

Based on your situation, I have the solution.

Speaker2                                                                                        17:09

I have what you need.

I can get you there or I can help you buy or I can whatever it is that you're selling.

And with that, I have the solution for you And then the last part is the urgency, which is when is the time to do something?

It's always right now.

Now, of course, there's times where there's financial issues.

Speaker2                                                                                        17:39

There's logistical things.

Maybe it's not the best, but you should always be assuming that the time for someone to buy from you is right now And primarily, because like we talked about in the last episode, we all have this primal part of our brain that wants to keep us safe in our comfort zone and literally doing the same thing all day every day because outside of that is change, change equals death.

The problem is is your prospects are in that same mode.

And buying from you equals change.

Because -- Yes.

Speaker0                                                                                        17:39


Speaker2                                                                                        17:56

if it wasn't changed, they would have ordered it online or bought it the way they always do, and they wouldn't have needed a salesperson.


And it's funny when you think about it, people don't like change so much.

They don't like changing the brands they use even of consumer goods.


Speaker2                                                                                        18:07

Like, yo, they buy the same paper towel.

And then now the store's out of that paper towel, and I have to make another choice.

It's like, oh my gosh.

What's gonna happen?

Like, our brain is, like, freaking out, and some people really stress out and be like, oh my gosh.

Speaker2                                                                                        18:08

Is this gonna work?

Speaker1                                                                                        18:12

They ran out of Coke.

What am I gonna do without my Coke?

Speaker2                                                                                        18:15

They they yeah.

What do what what's what else is there?

Speaker1                                                                                        18:16

Like, I guess

Speaker2                                                                                        18:24

I could try something else.


I gotta drink Pepsi, but is it gonna be as good I heard people say they don't like it.

And what about this?

And am I gonna like it?

Speaker2                                                                                        18:35

And that sounds silly and ridiculous, but people have that same battle.



It's usually a smaller scale.

I mean, you buy a new pack of gum that you've ever tried before and you don't like it, that was a dollar, and it's not at the end of the world.

Speaker2                                                                                        19:00

but that same part of our brain is going to freak out when you try to get them to buy, and your job as a sales professional is to help mitigate that change that that aversion to change and help them understand that it's safe and that you can do it.

That's where you've gotta do those stages.

And then the urgency part is They they gotta do it right now.


Again, with the right intentions from the right place that you care about them, you're gonna actually help them.

Speaker2                                                                                        19:14


But the time is now because if you don't, they put their head back in their sand in the sand.

Their their brain gets a hold of them and tells them coo.

We dodged a bullet by not buying today.

We coulda died, and so it's a good thing and make sure you know?

Speaker2                                                                                        19:33

And I I tell people this all the time.

I say your prospects will go into the prospect witness protection program where literally you will never hear from them again because their brain said, oh, we dodged a bullet.

They literally change your phone number to do not answer.

And, like, you'll just never hear from them again if you're not careful.


Speaker1                                                                                        19:50



And I I liked what you said about the listening.

And I'm sure you get this a lot, but People say to me, Kim, you're such an amazing communicator, like, I love talking to you.

And that's because I let them do about 95% of the talking.

Speaker2                                                                                        19:51


Speaker1                                                                                        20:12

And like you said, you ask questions.

And when so and what I do is I ask a lot of questions But when I say something, I make sure it's strong and impactful.

And I give them something that is valuable.

And that's why they're like, oh, Kim, I love talking to you.


Speaker1                                                                                        20:18

I love listening to you.

I don't say that.

That's the truth.


Speaker2                                                                                        20:38

And in my experience of you and the conversations we've had prior to this, is you do that and you do it in the proper order.

So there's a lot of people that come out of the gate and be like, I'm an authority.

I know my stuff.

So let me tell you how to do things, right, versus, like, what you do in particular, Kim, which is tell me about your journey.

How's it going with writing a book?

Speaker2                                                                                        20:49

What are you doing?

oh, hey.

Based on that, have you thought about this?

Are you working on this?

Have you like, you're then prescribing something specific with some advice or knowledge or a little nugget of information.

Speaker2                                                                                        20:59

And not with any intent to sell, but just like, hey.

Based on what you said, I've got some value I can give you.

And then, you know, if it made sense, you could move that forward.

Speaker1                                                                                        21:15



So let's start talking about your books.

So first of all, give us the title of book again because we we did it in part 1.

And then tell us a little bit, you know, what has been sort of the good, bad, and ugly of doing this book?

Speaker2                                                                                        21:36


So the title is selling with authentic persuasion, and the subtitle is transformed from order taker to quarter breaker, which between those two things, just just scribes it all in everything from this episode and the last one.

I mean, that's that's those are the highlights of it, but just goes into more detail.

Now the journey I wanted to write a book.

I started writing a book in

Speaker0                                                                                        21:36


Speaker2                                                                                        22:07

about a completely different topic, gave up, got in my head, know, the doubts, the fears, the worries.

Who who am I to write a book?

What do I even know that that shelf to that project?

And so that what didn't happen.

and then fast forward to a year let's say 2 years ago, then I got the idea that I wanted to write this book, write a sales book, I got some help with the process, got a framework to help me get out of my head and just kind of, like, the formula, wrote it wrote it really quick.

Speaker2                                                                                        22:19

part time while working.

I woke up early and 2 hours a day, I wrote the I wrote 60,000 words in 6 weeks.

Wow working.


I just I just dumped out of my head.

Speaker2                                                                                        22:29

It's something I know.

I just dumped it out.

Got did some editing.

printed it out, you know, just roughly on my side, read through it, and was like, this is garbage.

I don't like it.

Speaker2                                                                                        22:42

This is crap.

And I know everyone says that because I know enough people to know that that's what people say.

And I read it, and I'm like, I don't even like it.

it's not that I doubted it was gonna be good.

That's a whole different voice in my head.

Speaker2                                                                                        22:50

But literally, I'm reading through.

I'm like, doesn't make sense?

Like, what's the point?

How do I even describe it.

I couldn't I couldn't describe the values anybody.

Speaker2                                                                                        23:08

And so I sat on it for about 6 months.

and then got reinvigorated to work on it about a year ago and wrote it from scratch a second time.

I copied and pasted some of it.

I probably used about 10, 15,000 words.

But then in another 6 weeks from scratch, part time wrote another

Speaker0                                                                                        23:08


Speaker2                                                                                        23:28


In a more cohesive, like, here's a blueprint, here's a plan.


And what's crazy, I still had no title.

Going through editing, printing it up on my side, pen and paper, going through it, I had no title, and then I sat on it for another 3 months where it sat on my desk, no title, no idea of, like, what's but what's the point?

Speaker2                                                                                        24:00

And here I was again.

I was like, what's the point?

And then one morning out of the blue, it hit me authentic persuasion as the framework of what I've always done that I could never put my finger on as a salesperson and as a coach and consultant.

And as soon as that hit me, I'm literally buying the domains, like, sitting on the floor on my phone, buying the URLs, coming up with the titles of the book, putting it together, getting websites, you know, started to be built, and then it hit me.

And then I molded the book again, didn't delete it.

Speaker2                                                                                        24:10

I just, like, kinda reorganized it and and, you know, touched it up such that it fit that framework.

And then from that moment, it felt really easy, and it felt like the right thing.

Speaker1                                                                                        24:31

So here's some of the things I can pull out of your story.

Is the book writing process brings a lot of clarity?

See, the first time you did it, you didn't have as much clarity.

So you wrote what you knew.

But writing the first time and then going back and reviewing it, and then you let it sit for a while.

Speaker1                                                                                        25:02

So when you did it the second time, you had a ton more clarity.

But you didn't have the title because that last clarity piece was still being transformed in you.

And this is something that many authors go through.

Even when, you know, we're working with clients, It is a clarity process throughout the entire writing of the book.

And just so you know, it's it's not unusual, not to get to the end of the book and still have no idea what to call it.

Speaker1                                                                                        25:33

It it has happened many times.

Now not as so much so with the clients we work with because, you know, I've been through this process many times before.

So usually, I don't always hit the title.

But what I'm really good at is I give the I give the clients things to think about, you know, and some title suggestions and some words to play around with.

And as they think about that, a lot of times the clarity comes.

Speaker1                                                                                        25:57

Now sometimes we make the suggestion, it's the right one.

But a lot of times, it's us kinda starting the ball rolling.

and allowing the client to sit and think about it and process it and get that clarity.

And then they'll call us and they'll say, You know, I was thinking of 3 titles, a, b, and c, and I'm like, it's a.

You're like, how do you know?

Speaker1                                                                                        26:11

I just know.

The title is a.

And it's always the first one they tell me because they they come up with a couple couple other ones.

Like, the first one was the one that really resonate, but they think, oh, well, maybe I should I think it's no.

It was the first one.

Speaker2                                                                                        26:13


And, you

Speaker1                                                                                        26:29

know, it's funny with your book, and and we had this conversation sort of in pre interview we did is really you could have switched the subtitle and the title.

Like, they're so interchangeable And, you know, for you, it's deciding which one goes on top.

Speaker2                                                                                        26:49



And which, you know, which which is more representative of me and then just understanding, you know, kinda like we talked about before, there's people who see the world in more of an aggressive or, you know, kind of a a more forward thought, and they'll think, okay.

Transform from order taker to quota breaker.

Like, that's the 1.

Speaker2                                                                                        27:02

and then people who will be more attracted to selling with authentic persuasion.

So yeah.

So, like, that combination, like you told me before, like, having both of those is is great.

So and it feels right.


Speaker1                                                                                        27:12

Well, thank you so much, Jason.

This has been really awesome.

How can people connect with you?

If they've listened to this and they're like, oh, I I've gotta hear more from this guy.

Speaker2                                                                                        27:37


So the best thing to do is go to my hub for all of my links.

So you can go to,

On there, I have like, just just a portal and a hub to my consulting website, the authentic persuasion website where you can find me on LinkedIn.

Also and I didn't mention this last time, but there's also a way to book a free sales power call with me.

Speaker2                                                                                        27:52

get on the phone.

Obviously, I love talking about sales.

And if it's something I can help somebody with or direction I can point them or if I have a program, you know, from my online program to my individual coaching and consulting.

I I will tell you.

Obviously, I I live by what I do.

Speaker2                                                                                        28:06

And if it's a good fit and I think it could benefit somebody.

I'll tell you.

If not, you know, I'll point you in the dress best direction.

But no matter what, I love talking about sales, you can also find my podcast.

So I have a podcast called the sales experience podcast, You can find it everywhere.

Speaker2                                                                                        28:09

But if you go to the Jason Cutter site, there's a link for it there too.

Speaker1                                                                                        28:22


Well, thank you so much for being on the show.

This has been Jason Cutter and Kim Thompson Tinder on the author to authority podcast.

Thank you so much for listening.

and we will see you on the very next episode.

Speaker1                                                                                        28:23

Bye now.

Speaker0                                                                                        28:59

You've been listening to the author to author podcast.

The extraordinary word Ninja, Kim Thompson-Pinder has helped over 200 entrepreneurs, professional, speakers, and coaches write and publish their books that have become incredible marketing tools for their business.

And many of those have gone on to come Amazon best selling authors, and have used their books to land high level clients and get on big stages.

We hope you've enjoyed the show.

May sure to like rate and review, and we'll be back soon.

Speaker0                                                                                        28:59

But in the meantime, hit the website at w w w.author2authority

See you next time.