Hi there, come on in, this is Seriouslyourself, the podcast and I'm Ingrid Helander.
 So the other day I got a request to talk about boundaries, boundaries. Oh boy. And that's what I thought: Boundaries. Oh boy! Because you hear so much about boundaries these days. For me, it can almost become a little wearing. That's not to uh in any way minimize the importance of boundaries or to upset anyone that does a lot of work around boundaries. Because indeed, they are important, essential and difficult. So with all due respect, honestly, to those who are working hard in the field of boundaries, personal boundaries, I'm going to talk about this from a curious standpoint, just to see what it's like for you.

I think the more we can play with topics that are difficult and complicated, like boundaries, and the more we can become our own experts, our own curious contributors to what we think about certain topics, It's really hopeful. So that's what the purpose of our episode today is. And if you've ever wondered about boundaries or caught yourself saying, "Wow, that person has terrible boundaries," or "I really need a boundary around this," or "If I'm going to go into this situation, I really need some good boundaries." Huh? If you've caught yourself doing that? Then this episode is definitely for you! And frankly, if you've never caught yourself doing that, then maybe this episode is for you too.

So boundaries, what are they? One of my favorite description of boundaries in common day vernacular is one by Prentis Hemphill, who is quite the genius from my experience. Prentice says boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously. Boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously. Prentis goes on to say: Boundaries give us the space to do the work of loving ourselves. They might be actually the first and fundamental expression of self love. They also give us the space to love and witness others as they are, even those that have hurt us.

So that is, to me, so perfectly descriptive of what a healthy boundary needs to do. And it also gives some concept of how to understand when a boundary needs to be repaired or placed or corrected in some way. This sense of like when we can notice that we are continuously feeling hurt by someone, right? To the point where we have zero respect for that person. That would indicate a time for a boundary. Yeah? Because we're no longer able to be in a loving position with that person. And in fact, when we feel resentful like that, it tends to eat us up and we are, you know, first and foremost from ourselves at that moment, not in a loving relationship, right? Because we are resentful, and we are stewing and angry, and that tends to eat us up. And, we're not in a loving relationship with the other, because they -- we are too close or in too much proximity without a boundary there, so that they can continually create a system in which we feel hurt, harmed or disrespected.

You know, the term boundaries was not even really picked up much at all in this way until the 80's or 90's. When I was growing up as a kid, you didn't hear about boundaries. I I think you heard about the term respect a lot. And you also heard little little quips like: Big fences make good neighbors, which one would say was probably an indicator of a good boundary. Yeah? Or maybe too rigid of a boundary. So when people come to me now and they're saying, "You know, I really feel like I need a boundary," I'll tell you the first thing that comes up for me is a curiosity about what is going on here. Because you can't walk into creating a boundary from an unhealthy space, and you can't assume for another person what a healthy boundary would be.

I'll give you an example. I've been watching the television show, MAID. I can't tell you what network it's on, but it's got Andie Macdowell and her um daughter. And her daughter is the main character, and she plays the maid there. And as I was watching the show, I would so often be like, "Oh my gosh, make a boundary! Just don't let that person do that to you again, Oh please!" And if you watch the show, you'll know what I mean. And then I would realize that she did not have the context in which to make that boundary that I as the viewer would have. So there were parts of her inside that would not allow a strong boundary at that time with, say, her mother or her husband. And so she would fall into these really painful, difficult situations over and over and over.

So when you're talking to someone about a boundary, one needs to kind of step back and examine their own boundaries. Like why would that boundary be so easy for me? You know? And and you might even say, "Well, it's because I'm cold. I've heard this so often  -- excuse my language, but right... I'm a cold, uncaring bitch. That's why I can make the boundaries so easily. Or people would say: You can make that boundary because you're a Scorpio, and Scorpios just bite and and keep people back. I don't know. I don't know if there's any reality in any of that. I think it's fascinating.

So boundaries are really highly personal. Yeah. But if they're coming from a place that is sort of in your sympathetic nervous system, right? That's all fired up. They're not going to wind up being a healthy boundary. And we see this all over the place. We see this from um, personal issues between family members to governments and countries and politics, boundaries being made from a fired-up system which is often not informed by what is currently happening. The danger may have been in the past or may not even be danger, right? But I got to make that boundary! I need that big fence to stay protected.

So in thinking about this, I remembered when I was a kid - and this story comes back to me, and it's so weird to me that it does, because I was probably in fourth grade, maybe fifth, and I was on the playground. So you know, I was little, and I was talking with my friend Susie, and I was mad for her that someone had been rude or mean to her, one of our mutual friends. So I remember saying to her, "Well, Susie, just tell them to go away. Just forget it. I wouldn't play with them." And this little sage Susie looks at me and she says, "Well yeah, you can afford to do that."

I never forgot that. I mean, first of all I had no retort, which is probably why I never forgot it, because if you know me at all, you can imagine I often did have a retort, some kind of answer. I was just sort of speechless. And she really spoke just her truth to me. And what she exactly meant. I think only she would know. But it felt very clear to me at that time that what she meant was: I have a need for that friend that I'm not willing to risk. She was not willing able to make the risk of losing that friendship by making a stronger boundary. Now, of course, the boundary that my little kid self had suggested was pretty uh big. It wasn't like: Tell her that you're not going to play with her as often, or I would, you know, mention your feelings to her, something like that. It was:  I wouldn't have anything to do with her, which is probably how I would have handled it as a little kid. 

But my grown up self, honestly, I look back and I so appreciate Susie. I so appreciate her, her knowing of herself and her honesty. Talk about speaking for oneself! She didn't have to say to me:  Well, you're kind of harsh and you're being a jerk. All she had to say to me was: That's not something that I could afford to do, just because you can, or you think you can. 

So when you're making a boundary, if you feel you need a strong boundary, here are some things you could look at, you could ask yourself: Is there fear involved here, am I afraid? And try to think about times when maybe you've made a boundary from a space in you that is fearful. And often that is informed by the experiences we had as dhildren. And often those solutions, ie. the boundaries look like a little kid would make them. You know, you huff off or you scold loudly or you, you know, sulk, or a very young feeling such as that. And that's a great trail head to go and go, Okay, whoa. What is this fearful part needing from me? before you make the boundary. Or even after, you can always repair it. 

Another thing you could ask yourself is, as a little kid, were you allowed to say no, and were you allowed to say yes and have your opinion honored? And if you were, then it's probably a little more easy for you to create a boundary. Right? A boundary requires No's and Yes's.  Yes to this. No to that. If that was never honored in your family of origin, in your upbringing, it's going to be harder. So give yourself that patience and that moment to go, I see! And update young parts of you, reminding yourself as you breathe in and you feel into your body, here's my age, here's my stage of life, and and welcoming young sensations to be with that ... and knowing you can make choices. That's what finally sort of happened in MAID, if you will. 

And then you can look at, well, do you find it easier to make a personal boundary between you and others, right, a relational boundary, or just between you and yourself? We have boundaries with ourselves, right? Sort of like disciplines, you know, like:  I will allow myself this; I will not allow myself that. And for some of us, those are even harder. They require a certain self love, a certain self respect to be able to get to those kinds of boundaries.

Have you ever made a boundary purely from anger? You know, you're just ripped and you're like, "I will never, ever look at you again!" What is that like later? 

And have you experienced what it's like when boundaries move, shift or evolve? Because they do, they do, they almost have to, especially in families, because people grow and change and develop. And if you have experienced those kinds of boundaries, how do you feel about that? What was it like for you when your kids, say, went from being little kids to being adults or teens? What was it like when you left your, your home and family and became independent, if you did. So these are all really interesting things about boundaries. 

But a boundary is not simply, you know, drawing a line in the sand, then you know, staking your claim there. Boundaries are complex. They are permeable and impermeable. They are open and closed, They change, they evolved and they shift and they're a new concept, really, in terms of our speech these days. 

So if you're hearing it, you know, stop and think: Okay, there's some popularity to this, and there's probably lots of great reasons for that as well. 

If you feel yourself making a boundary and you want to punish someone or you're angry with them, take a step back. 

If you feel you need to make a boundary and you notice that it's feeling tighter and tighter. Check for fear. There's probably fear in there, okay? 

Brene Brown, her quote about boundaries is: Daring to set boundaries is about having the courage to love ourselves. Even when we risk disappointing others. Right? Even when we risk disappointing others, because disappointing someone, pleasing them and loving them are not always the same thing. So there's a lot more we can talk about here, but I hope that's helpful for you. 

And the next time you hear yourself saying you need a boundary, take a look inside, right? And know that you want to get to clarity. You want to not have a strong agenda, and expect yourself to be equally loving to you and to those that you love. I hope that's helpful! Talk to you soon. Bye. 

Thank you for joining me for this episode of Seriouslyourself. To help treat yourself well each week, go ahead and subscribe to Seriouslyourself wherever you listen to podcasts, and please share this link with anyone you love who might be seeking a little more truth and delight in their lives. 

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And thanks to those who make Seriouslyourself special: our wonderful music is Midsummer from the album Flood by the fabulous Joel Helander. Seriouslyourself is produced by Particulate Media, K.O. Myers, Executive Producer. The ideas and inspirations come from beautiful humans like you, that I feel lucky to know. And I'm Ingrid Helander. Take good care of yourself. See you next time.