Macroeconomics has never been so ... delish! Macro and Cheese explores the progressive movement through the lens of Modern Monetary Theory, with hot and irreverent political takes, spotlights in activism, and the razor sharp musings of Real Progressives Founder and host Steve Grumbine. The cheese will flow as experts come in for a full, four course deep dive into the hot queso.
Comfort Food for Thought!
Taming the Megabanks with Art Wilmarth
March 6, 2021 • 62 MIN
Art Wilmarth tells Steve why we need a firewall between banks and capital markets. They talk about crony capitalism and revolving doors, his new book and our new show (The New Untouchables: The Pecora Files)
Austin Needs Water with Romteen Farasat
March 3, 2021 • 14 MIN
Special release: a midweek interview with Romteen Farasat, incident commander of Austin Needs Water, about the ongoing crisis in his city. Where is the Biden administration?
Institutions with Linwood Tauheed
February 27, 2021 • 61 MIN
Steve’s guest is Linwood Tauheed, an institutional economist from UMKC. They talk about A Tribe Called Quest, the French Revolution, racism, sexism, the US Constitution, and Malcolm X.
Knowledge is Power with Rev. Delman Coates
February 20, 2021 • 57 MIN
Steve is joined by Delman Coates of the Our Money campaign, who talks about bringing MMT to the people, particularly the black community. Delman describes the “Repair & Restore agenda, centered around a federal job guarantee, free healthcare, and federal funding of public education, pre-K through college.
We Are Losing The Media War with Jordan Chariton
February 13, 2021 • 69 MIN
Jordan Chariton of Status Coup has dropped bombshell stories about Flint, former Governor Snyder, the Iowa caucuses, the DNC. So why are people so mad at him?
Reform or Revolution with Danny Haiphong
February 6, 2021 • 66 MIN
Danny Haiphong of Black Agenda Report joins us to discuss austerity, electoral politics, and the American empire. Along the way we discuss Lenin, socialism, and the left.
The Case for Scottish Independence with Kairin Van Sweeden
January 30, 2021 • 71 MIN
Kairin Van Sweeden is Executive Director of Modern Money Scotland. She talks to Steve about MMT, the Scottish National Party and why she opposed Brexit.
Focus on the Family with June Carbone
January 23, 2021 • 68 MIN
June Carbone talks about her research on the family and its implications for economic and social policy. Spoiler alert: we need a job guarantee, free education and universal basic services.
Anatomy of a Job Guarantee with Fadhel Kaboub
January 16, 2021 • 59 MIN
Fadhel Kaboub & Steve Grumbine talk about unemployment and the job guarantee. They go into the meaning of “buffer stock,” the importance of the 4th estate, and why Silicon Valley is so hot for a UBI.
The Global Scourge of Neoliberalism with Patricia Pino
January 9, 2021 • 47 MIN
You’ll get a hit of nostalgia listening to Steve Grumbine and Patricia Pino in this 2017 interview about the Corbyn and the first Sanders campaign, Brexit, Greece, the history of the EU and, of course, MMT.
Beat Back Better: Organizing in 2021 with Emma Caterine
January 2, 2021 • 61 MIN
Emma Caterine of DSA joins us to talk about why we need to organize in 2021. It has to do with class warfare, austerity politics, and Biden’s love affair with the financial industry.
Solidarity with Joe Burns
December 5, 2020 • 54 MIN
Joe Burns, a labor negotiator and lawyer, talks about the past, present, and future of the labor movement. If capital is global, working class solidarity must be international.
Treasury’s Gift To The Fed with Robert Hockett
November 28, 2020 • 85 MIN
Mnuchin just killed the CARES Act.. in the middle of a pandemic. Why does Bob Hockett say it’s a gift in disguise? And what is the CARES Act, anyway? Why should we #SpreadtheFed ??
The Land Value Tax with Joshua Vincent and Rich Nymoen
November 21, 2020 • 53 MIN
If the 1% are amassing their wealth through ownership of unproductive land, and if idle, abandoned land is a blight on our communities, how can we kill both birds with one Georgist stone?
The Public Banking Act with Rohan Grey
November 7, 2020 • 61 MIN
Rohan Grey helped craft Congresswomen Tlaib & AOC’s Public Banking Act. He’s here to explain how it works and why it’s so important for people, states and communities in crisis.
Crisis Management with Warren Mosler
October 24, 2020 • 53 MIN
In part 2 of our interview with Warren Mosler, he talks about some disagreements within the MMT community regarding the job guarantee, swap-lines, and “mint the coin.” He gives his observations on lessons learned from the pandemic and how it can change the way we live and do business.
The MMT Sequence with Warren Mosler
October 17, 2020 • 68 MIN
The OG of MMT takes us back to basics with the story of money itself. Where does it come from and how did it get into your pocket? He explains the true function of taxing, the “national debt,” the cause of unemployment, and how MMT saved the world.
Juxtapositions with Bill Mitchell
October 10, 2020 • 58 MIN
Aussie MMT economist Bill Mitchell talks Biden and Trump, climate crisis, US healthcare, UBI, and where the movement must go from here.
Debt Deflation and the Neofeudal Empire with Michael Hudson
October 3, 2020 • 52 MIN
Renowned economist and author Michael Hudson joins us to discuss debt, the parasitic kleptocracy, and the remnants of feudalism. He and Steve look at the monolithic two-party system, where slogans like “hope and change” mean the death of hope and obstruction to change.
A Just Transition Through Participatory Governance with Cindy Banyai
September 26, 2020 • 56 MIN
We speak with a candidate of Florida’s 19th Congressional District about MMT, universal healthcare, social security, and jobs. Cindy Banyai is a mom of 3, a small business owner. and has been involved in community development for almost 20 years, collaborating with nonprofits around the world on issues such as homelessness, children’s services, education, and sustainable development.
2020 with Margaret Kimberley
September 19, 2020 • 58 MIN
The co-founder of Black Agenda Report joins Steve to talk about revolutionary change, electoral politics, the movement, and more.
The World of Angrynomics with Mark Blyth
August 15, 2020 • 2952 MIN
Why do we have birthday parties, bar mitzvahs, graduations & funerals ceremonies - and what do these rituals have to do with risk, uncertainty and economics? Mark Blyth explains. And makes you laugh, uncomfortably.
Electing to Speak Out: Democracy Unchained with Senate Candidate Richard Dien Winfield
August 1, 2020 • 68 MIN
Our guest is a US Senate candidate in Georgia. He talks to Steve about social rights, those rights that aren’t in the constitution but need to be, including the right to a job, housing, and education at all levels. He doesn’t just support M4A, he also wants legal care for all.
Paying Ourselves to Save the Planet: An MMT Story with J.D. Alt
July 25, 2020 • 3159 MIN
JD Alt is an architect whose outlook changed when he learned Modern Monetary Theory. Now he explains why climate change isn’t too expensive to combat. In fact, if we do what is needed, a lot of people will get paid.
An Activist's Quest for Aboriginal Inclusion with Jengis Osman
July 11, 2020 • 3597 MIN
From the mountains of Cyprus to the Australian outback, Jengis Osman’s path led him to Modern Monetary Theory.
Navigating the Coming Great Depression with John Harvey
July 4, 2020 • 63 MIN
Steve’s guest is John Harvey, the Cowboy Economist. They talk COVID, climate, Democrats, Republicans, and economists.
Rights, Justice, Equality And All Things Funky with Irami Osei-Frimpong
June 20, 2020 • 71 MIN
Our guest Irami Osei-Frimpong (the Funky Academic) will make you laugh. He also delivers truth like a gut-punch. Don't miss this episode.
Nationalizing Payroll and The Right to a Job with Pavlina Tcherneva
June 13, 2020 • 64 MIN
Here’s how the Job Guarantee improves people’s lives: public goods provisioning, rehabilitating communities, creating basic economic security. Just what we need during a pandemic.
Revolution H'20: A Discussion with Green Party Presidential Candidate Howie Hawkins
May 30, 2020 • 62 MIN
Where does Howie come out on MMT? Where does Steve come out on greening the dollar? Listen to an interesting discussion, with some disagreement, among old friends.
The Con with Bill Black, Patrick Lovell and Eric Vaughan
May 2, 2020 • 66 MIN
Bill Black, Patrick Lovell & Eric Vaughan talk about the upcoming documentary series The Con, and tell us why criminals in the world of finance target the weak, the meek, and the ignorant
Afterberner: The Progressive Path Forward with Jamarl Thomas
April 25, 2020 • 68 MIN
Steve invites Jamarl Thomas to give his assessment of the presidential primaries, talk about what went wrong and where to go from here. He thinks it’s time for the left to get tough.
Supply Chains and Pandemics with Steve Keen
April 18, 2020 • 3052 MIN
Our guest is one of the few economists to cogently predict the global financial crisis of '08. His prediction of coming climate disaster is playing out with the coronavirus. Comprehensive reorganization is needed. He lays it out for us.
Revolutions and Reconciliations: The Bernie Sanders Movement with Ryan Grim
April 11, 2020 • 3185 MIN
From Bernie to Biden to COVID-19, Ryan Grim and Steve Grumbine have a lot to discuss about the past and the future of the left. Which one of them identifies with Arthur Fleck?
Ground Zero with Lauren Ashcraft
April 4, 2020 • 62 MIN
Lauren Ashcraft is a stand-up comic, Democratic Socialist, proponent of MMT, and now a candidate, ready to unseat an establishment Democrat in NY's 12th district.
COVID-19 with Fadhel Kaboub
March 21, 2020 • 66 MIN
What is public health infrastructure? Is it loan forgiveness? Universal paid sick leave? Public-access high-speed internet? Autonomous vehicles to make deliveries? After #COVID-19 will we be prepared for the next event? Fadhel Kaboub tells us it’s too expensive not to act
OK, Boomer. Great Again Isn't Good Enough with L. Randall Wray
February 29, 2020 • 3203 MIN
Why do Bernie Sanders proposals feel so familiar to baby boomers? Let Randall Wray break it down for you in episode 57.
Event Horizon: A Climate In Crisis with Steve Keen
January 18, 2020 • 67 MIN
Energy consumption causes the buildup of greenhouse gas.. which means the sun’s energy is no longer reflected but contained.. which affects circulation patterns in the atmosphere & ocean. What does this do to life on earth? Professor Steve Keen explains.
How to Lose an Election in 60 Days with Patricia Pino
January 4, 2020 • 3485 MIN
Our UK friend Patricia Pino helps us navigate the fault line between Labour voters and Labour MPs. Spoiler alert: it’s remarkably similar to the disconnect between Democratic voters and the Democratic Party establishment.
1000 Castaways: An MMT Journey with Clint Ballinger
December 21, 2019 • 3400 MIN
If you understand the vertical and horizontal money systems you can change the world. Join us with special guest Clint Ballinger, author of "1,000 Castaways: Fundamentals of Economics."
Austerity and the Consumer Debt Trap with Emma Caterine
December 14, 2019 • 68 MIN
Emma Caterine of DSA & Modern Money Network joins us to talk about loan sharks, payday loans, credit card debt and the great recession.
Race For Profit with Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor
December 7, 2019 • 2803 MIN
Keeanga Yamahtta-Taylor explains the origins of her newest book Race For Profit, and discusses how housing programs for the Black community became a stumbling block to them having a safe place to live -- and another source of corporate profit.
The Green New Deal: Non-Fiscal "Pay-Fors" and Balance of Payments with Nathan Tankus
November 30, 2019 • 3451 MIN
Wondering how to pay for a Green New Deal? Nathan Tankus breaks it down in ways you probably never considered. In combination with a Job Guarantee, America could do some amazing things. With the proper political environment, it might get that chance.
The Spectrum of Monetary Sovereignty in Developing Nations with Ndongo Samba Sylla and Fadhel Kaboub
November 2, 2019 • 3224 MIN
Ndongo Samba Sylla & Fadhel Kaboub go deep into the economic problems of Africa & developing countries, showing why MMT is the only truthful lens through which to understand - and craft solutions..
Trade, Foreign Exchange and Modern Monetary Theory: A Field Guide with Bill Mitchell
October 26, 2019 • 67 MIN
Bill Mitchell’s response to pessimists about the JG: We put a human on the moon, you don’t think we can create a few jobs?
Exposed! A Serial Whistleblower's Story with Bill Black
October 19, 2019 • 67 MIN
Why do banks need bail-outs while the CEOs get rich? Who put the lies in “liars’ loans?” Why is fraud & predation rampant in the financial industry? Bill Black was there for the S&L debacle, fighting on the frontlines.
Organizing, Democracy, and Modern Monetary Theory with Mitch Green
October 12, 2019 • 3108 MIN
Steve is joined by Mitch Green of Portland DSA to talk about the Green New Deal, job guarantee, and ecosocialism.
The Role of Taxation in MMT with L. Randall Wray
October 5, 2019 • 65 MIN
The title of this episode could be Taxation 101. Economist L Randall Wray takes us through the history and many purposes, both actual and potential, of taxes.
A Green New Tomorrow: A Survival Guide with Rohan Grey
September 28, 2019 • 69 MIN
In part 2 of our interview Rohan Grey talks about debt, public banking, the Green New Deal, and the job guarantee. He dispels some notions about robots and the UBI.
The Legal Nature of Money and the History of the Federal Reserve with Rohan Grey
September 21, 2019 • 60 MIN
Rohan Grey takes us from the origins of the US dollar through the history of American banking. In the process we get a fascinating look at the class struggle that led to the development of the Fed and that persists to this day.
Sustainability in a Modern Money Economy with Steven Hail & Phil Lawn
September 14, 2019 • 64 MIN
Dr. Philip Lawn and Dr. Steven Hail, 2 Australian modern monetary theorists, talk about growth, waste, money, and the environment.
Politics, Public Banking, and the Green New Deal with Andrés Bernal
September 7, 2019 • 3378 MIN
Andres Bernal says we're meant to be infinitely creative and learn from one another. What does this have to do with MMT and the GND? Listen to episode 32 and find out.
The Emergence of FinTech and the War on Cash with Brett Scott
August 17, 2019 • 51 MIN
Which of these things are true? Bitcoin will soon replace the US dollar as the world reserve currency. The value of bitcoin is measured in US dollars. Bitcoin evangelists stand to profit from its success. Brett Scott @suitpossom breaks it all down for us.
Overcoming the Orthodoxy with Scott Fullwiler
August 10, 2019 • 57 MIN
We don’t worry about the deficit, we worry about the state of the economy, says Prof Scott Fullwiler of UMKC. If you’re interested in the history of MMT, you’ll want to hear this episode.
Wage Stagnation, Inflation and the New Normal with Mark Blyth
August 3, 2019 • 3219 MIN
What is “smoke & mirrors & bullshit?” Does a Lannister always pay his debts? For answers, be sure to listen to our latest episode, where host Steve Grumbine goes toe to toe with Prof Mark Blyth. (Spoiler alert: they actually seem to enjoy each other's company)
Genuine Hope: Completing the Roosevelt Revolution with Pavlina Tcherneva
July 27, 2019 • 60 MIN
Pavlina Tcherneva has been studying and writing about the Federal Job Guarantee since long before most of us had heard of the concept. In this episode she gives us all the ammunition we need to demand it.
Propaganda, Revelations, & Prosperity: The End of Neoliberalism with Scott Ferguson
July 20, 2019 • 3451 MIN
What makes us laugh, makes us cry, makes us horny? Steve’s guest Scott Ferguson tells us it’s neoliberalism, as it permeates our culture. In fact, it basically IS the culture. Yet he believes the current paradigm crisis is reason for hope. Tune in to find out why.
Reclaiming Europe: A Story of Monetary Sovereignty with Thomas Fazi
July 13, 2019 • 2424 MIN
Steve’s guest Thomas Fazi talks about the success of the grand neoliberal plan to disembowel the democratic process by handing over the tools of economic policy to international or supranational organizations. It’s not just the Eurozone, either. It’s happened in all the western democracies.
The Progressive Gambit and Labour in the Balance with Robert Hockett
July 6, 2019 • 64 MIN
Metabolically optimistic guest Robert Hockett returns to engage in the popular sport of political punditry. He muses on the presidential campaigns, parses the meaning of “socialism,” and proposes an entirely new system of credit allocation. Spoiler alert: it involves transforming the Fed.
Climate Refugees and the Economic Solution to Xenophobia With Fadhel Kaboub
June 29, 2019 • 64 MIN
Lessons in neoliberalism: how to destabilize an economy and propel the global refugee crisis. Steve’s guest Fadhel Kaboub of the Global Institute of Sustainable Prosperity explains the connection between neo-colonialism, climate chaos, foreign trade deficits and decades of austerity.
The History of MMT with Mathew Forstater
June 22, 2019 • 2809 MIN
Special guest Mathew Forstater was there when Modern Monetary Theory first took root in academia. He and Steve follow its history to the powerful, multi-faceted movement it is today. If you’re interested in the Job Guarantee or Green New Deal, don't miss this episode.
Our Money: From the Pulpit to the Street with Rev. Delman Coates
June 15, 2019 • 2412 MIN
Spend it, don’t lend it! The Reverend Delman Coates tells Steve that it’s time to reclaim the theology of economics, and to demand more government spending to free people from relying on private lending. The “MMT evangelist” talks about the recent launch of Our Money.
The Compelling Case for Rent Control with Nathan Tankus
June 8, 2019 • 2774 MIN
The rent is too damn high! Steve’s guest Nathan Tankus tells us why the faux rent control laws in some American cities are doing nothing to reduce ever-expanding housing insecurity & homelessness. Through the MMT lens, Nathan looks at the role of federal, state & municipal governments in exacerbating the problem, and shows us the way forward if we have the political will to take it on.
The Job Guarantee is Core MMT with Ellis Winningham
June 1, 2019 • 63 MIN
Anyone still tempted by the siren call of a UBI will be set right by Ellis Winningham & Steve Grumbine in this detailed look at everything from the history of work to the wider social benefits of a federal job guarantee. Winningham, MMT guru & educator, brings his acerbic wit & acute intellect to an episode you won’t want to miss.
Leveling the Playing Field. Reparations & Baby Bonds with Darrick Hamilton
May 25, 2019 • 61 MIN
Addressing racial & economic inequality requires bold, comprehensive programs. Darrick Hamilton lays out the principles and mechanics of some of the most vital policy proposals, reparations, baby bonds, and a federal job guarantee. Hamilton is professor of policy, economics & sociology at OSU.
Bond Markets in a Modern Money Economy with Brian Romanchuk
May 18, 2019 • 3035 MIN
Brian Romanchuk, founder of www.BondEconomics.com tells us that MMT was the first macro theory that matched the realities of the market. Since he’s Canadian, he and Steve speak of the differences in governing structure and, of course, single payer health care.
MMT Theory of Exchange Rate with Ivan Invernizzi
May 11, 2019 • 1950 MIN
Is a dollar worth more in DC or NYC than in Idaho? Yes, it is. Guest Ivan Invernizzi, of ReteMMT Italia, focuses the MMT lens on exchange rates, showing how this is yet another way that workers get screwed, simply because of their employer’s distance from the central bank.
Breaking The Chains of Oppression with Prof. Sandy Darity
May 4, 2019 • 3069 MIN
William "Sandy" Darity, economist from Duke University, explains why America needs a federal job guarantee and not a universal basic income. The FJG will address inequality, build an inclusive, stable economy, and provide socially useful services, improving the quality of life for all communities.
Public Money & The Right to a Job with Raul Carrillo
April 27, 2019 • 3082 MIN
Our guest is Raul Carrillo, an anti-poverty & economic justice attorney, who shares startling facts about the history of the monetary system. He and Steve discuss strategies, like the FJG, for progressives to challenge the power structure.
Debunking Economic Illiteracy in the Progressive Movement with L. Randall Wray
April 20, 2019 • 3298 MIN
This interview from 2017 is even better today! Economist L. Randall Wray takes on the global financial crisis, the recovery of Wall St banks vs the devastation wrought on the American people. He goes on to explain the myths & reality of Social Security & Medicare.
An Overripe Economy with Alan Nasser
April 13, 2019 • 30 MIN
Steve's guest Alan Nasser talks about his book Overripe Economy: American Capitalism and the Crisis of Democracy. He predicts a new economic crisis brought about by the disappearance of productive capital and the rise of the financialized economy.
Game Theory with Warren Mosler
April 6, 2019 • 3061 MIN
Warren Mosler, the originator of MMT, charges that the labor market is an unfair game and the gap in distribution is a result of institutional structure. With insight & clarity, Mosler explains a range of progressive policy proposals that include a job guarantee, new rules for the Federal Reserve, and a change in corporate liability laws.
The State of MMT Activism Around the World with Christian Reilly
March 30, 2019 • 3473 MIN
UK economic activist and musical comedian Christian Reilly joins Steve to talk about the 7 point MMT Manifesto and discuss ways to use economics to bridge the divide between conservatives, progressives and libertarians. Christian is co-host of the MMT Podcast.
Across the Pond MMT in the UK with Patricia Pino
March 23, 2019 • 1745 MIN
Patricia Pino, host of the UK’s MMT Podcast, untangles the confusing politics of Brexit and explains how the Eurozone furthers the neoliberal agenda. With MMT, the UK's citizens can control their own destiny.
The World of MMT with Professors Stephanie Kelton & Bill Mitchell
March 16, 2019 • 70 MIN
Two titans of MMT, from the US & Australia, talk about its past & present. Despite some local differences, they agree that the overarching progressive agenda is the same everywhere, and is impossible without MMT.
12 Years with Dr. Steven Hail
March 9, 2019 • 2993 MIN
Join special guest Dr Steven Hail and host Steven Grumbine tonight as they discuss the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) forecast. With only 12 years to address our carbon dioxide position, how does Modern Monetary Theory allow us to reverse our fate?
Environmental Justice, Sustainability and Full Employment with Fadhel Kaboub
March 2, 2019 • 62 MIN
Fadhel Kaboub from the Global Ins of Sustainable Prosperity talks with Steve about the pressing crises of climate change, poverty, and unemployment. In an hour packed with political economy and clarity, Fadhel describes the failings of the market approach, and uses the lens of MMT to change the narrative and put forth a comprehensive solution.
Metabolic Optimism with Professor Robert Hockett
February 10, 2019 • 62 MIN
In this episode of Macro n Cheese, Professor Robert Hockett of Cornell Law and a Fellow of the Century Foundation, talks about how Pelosi's PayGo is dangerously misleading. Steve and Hockett discuss the implications of a Green New Deal.
Hockett writes about law, justice, money, finance, and economics for Forbes and many other publications.
Pavlina Tcherneva on MMT, Feminism, Intersectionality & Momentum
February 9, 2019 • 1500 MIN
In this episode of Macro n Cheese, Pavlina Tcherneva of Bard College, the Levy Economics Institute, and the Center for Full Employment and Price Stability (CFEPS) joins Steve Grumbine to talk about the prominent role of women in developing and promoting Modern Monetary Theory. As one of the leading architects of what is known as the Federal Job Guarantee, she explains how redefining work will liberate families as well as the marginalized.
Putting the T in MMT with Professor Bill Mitchell
February 1, 2019 • 3360 MIN
Steve interviews Bill Mitchell on the controversial concept of “Theory” in Modern Monetary Theory, demonstrating that even the most complicated economic concepts can be made accessible to the layperson. They take on several of the predominant criticisms of #MMT including microfoundations while taking us on a journey through macroeconomics, from Keynes and Milton Friedman including today’s New Keynesians.
Now…. Enjoy the very first episode of Macro n Cheese!