[00:00:00] :  this, this, this show is brought to you by safety. FM. And from the border of liberty, prosperity and the highway to the north. This is safety wars for no Wednesday november 16th 2022. I am your very energetic host tonight. Jim proposal. I think that the covid malays I've been in for the last two weeks has finally lifted. Thank jesus christ my Lord. Right now I'm feeling great. So we're gonna start a little bit different here. I had a weird experience today. I hopefully the first of many weird experiences like this. Anyway, I know I do. If you follow me on linkedin, jim postal J. I. M. P. S and peter O. E essence and sam Ellen's and lima and right. That's how you spell my name. Uh, you follow me on there. You know, and you know, like and follow me and everything. I'm on all the social media safety wards and everything else. Right. Anyway, I posted, I share. It's a post from a guy Jordan Guerrera. Uh huh And right. And I, I mean this thing for whatever reason I went viral. We're talking like a boatload. I mean like and well into the five figures here and I was just in the number of impressions and analytics. So, you know, I get the premium service on linkedin and I apparently hit a raw nerve here when I posted this. And then I got to, uh, thank the original poster here. And of course I just erased. Not erased. And I just uh, changed. Uh, the screen here. So what was the post? It's real simple. Let me get it back here. All right, This is and this. And I think we could all uh, relate to this in the safety field where there are safety company, there are companies out there that put people in charge who don't realize what they're getting with a safety professional. You know, they don't value safety. There's not money in the budget to have a safety person or they think we're just gonna get somebody just to throw in the role and it's not going to be a career. You're gonna be a bench warmer or you're going to have a sit down job, throw somebody in there. I mean, I worked with my extended family doing safety for their corporations and before I got my credentials and letters out to my name, it was like a nightmare. Oh, let's see everybody has the same last name and you're gonna put this guy and that safety, I don't think he's qualified. Then you end up sending over like a Q and a package of like five pages long. That's another 20 pages sort of, oh, certifications. Oh, well, here's the safety professional, right? But uh, this is what happens right? Here it is. Dear employers, Please stop asking for bachelor's and master's degrees. If you're only offering $15 an hour, sincerely everyone. And often the people who are in charge of putting these ads, I don't know what safety is. They don't know what a certified safety professional or certified natural hygienists is or anything else. And then you get these things. So anyway, we had this local uh this about a year ago and this is again, it's not safety words without stories. So this is about a year ago, there's an ad in uh uh on online platforms. Something that you, pardon me, that you've all heard of and probably something that we've all used and it's for an OSHA outreach trainer. Right? And I go in and I call and I said, okay, blah blah blah. We set up an interview and I'm on the phone, we're again, we're in the middle of Covid, I'm on, we're doing the thing and okay, we're going through there and it's going pretty good. I said okay, so let me get this straight. Uh I'm gonna be supplying all the training materials to make the copies, whatever we need, but I'm gonna be supplying all the training materials. I'm gonna be keeping track of all the paperwork, uh I'm gonna be doing the training And everything else with this and you're gonna have anywhere from 30 to 40 people per class. They said Yes. I said Okay, how much are you gonna, what's the pay rate on this? They said $200 a day. So what you're gonna have 30 to 40 people per class or 10 hour courses and 30 hour courses outreach courses, you need, somebody with the credential and you're gonna be paying them $200 a day on a per diem rate your contractor basically? Yes. Has said, What are you talking about? I said you should be like the pay rate for, this is anywhere from uh somewhere uh a lot more than this as you're making anywhere from 6 to $15,000 per class by your own numbers. According to your website, you should be paying the instructor right somewhere between 400 to uh somewhere no uh $400 a day up to even $1000 a day for doing this for the amount of pay. Well that's not what we pay. And the woman got very nasty with me thing. I said no, I'm willing to negotiate and you need a trainer, I need a, you know, I'm looking for a situation. No uh we don't pay that much, we're only paying $200 for a day, $400 for a 10 hour course. And I said you have 30 or 40 people in there, so you're paying for the cards. They said no you're paying for the cards. I said so in reality we're making about 100 and $20 a day here and it's just you want to pull your head out. I've gone to other job interviews and it's the same deal, you go to these places. Well uh we need you to be working uh on a construction job, a demolition. And guess what you're going to be making uh $55,000 here and it's like okay What is there for diem rate thrown in there for the housing and this and that food. No, everything that I'm not asking for anything more than what's legally allowed. Uh yeah, we're it's $50 a day per diem and you gotta get a hotel and you gotta get that. It's like, I don't think you're looking for a safety professional. I think you're just looking for like a college intern or something doing an internship. I said, well, you know, well, it's not in the this is what, you know, this is what it is. You know, you're a non production position and you should not even be making any money at all. You should be, you know, we're doing you a favor a big favor by doing that. I said, well, it's not a matter of doing favors or not here. It's getting a no uh you know, no, I'm not doing you a favor by working there. Right? Uh The other thing thing is I'm more happy to get a job, right? And I'm happy to be working, but we have to have the old john wayne adage here, right? You want an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. So you're paying salary and you're expecting me to work 60 or 70 hours a week uh you know, and you're only giving $50 a day per diem and you're not paying overtime and there is no anything else thrown in there, like a reimbursement thing, anything, you know, a deal, right? Yeah, but we're giving you health insurance and you find out it's like the bottom of the bronze plan for health care and it's like who you looking for, and then six months later you find out that they had a fatality on the job and you know, you don't take the job, you know? So this is very frustrating because there's a lot of people out there that are willing to work for this low amount of money here. And as I got lectured and I'm not gonna say by who, I don't charge enough money, I wasn't charging enough money for a long time. And this is one of the challenges if you're a third party consultant, but if you're an employee really uh you know, there are resources where you could judge what the appropriate thing, what everybody else is making in the industry. Uh With that. Now, if you're an employer, guess what? You're often going to get what you pay for, right? You're going, if you're not gonna pay a lot of money, you're not gonna get a lot of experience, you're not, you know, I'm not saying paying everybody 100 and 50 grand, 200 grand a year. But what, you know, a fair wage, whatever that is, whatever your job duties are, the experience, your education, uh what you could bring and remember a lot of safety positions don't even require a formal education. They do require hands on stuff. So uh what does it all come down to? Is this uh price yourself appropriately? Get an honest day's pay for an honest day's work. Uh If you're an employer and you're in charge of hiring someone you may want to go and look in the industry publications there from for example the A. S. S. P. Has their publication they just in a salary survey uh lately uh and recently and uh you know published what those were. And the other thing is this if you're going to be in like places like new york city uh they now have a uh law that says that you have to disclose all this stuff when you put up the uh put up the uh advertised for the job. And everybody and a lot of other states are out there. They're requiring everybody to know know everybody's in sure everyone's uh hey because companies often play shenanigans here uh with things I know probably a good policy with uh get with your human resources person or a human resources person to try to justify why you're paying people what you're paying them. Because I've known of consultants, small ones like me that go out there and no employees talk they're always gonna talk and well we're doing the same job but you're hanging that's first and three more dollars an hour than me. Well, you know, that person's been doing as well. Experience is managing this job is doing this, it's doing that, blah, blah, blah. Which you're not doing more responsibilities were pay and you have to justify that. And you don't want to be on the receiving end of a Department of State Department of Labor audit on what you're paying people, right? It's not a good thing. So, we're gonna take a break. Our first break and we'll be back after that in the professional safety community communication and planning are just a few keys to your program success. The question many practitioners have is where do I start dr j Allen, the creator of the safety FM platform and host of the our safety show has built a global foundation to help you along the way. Go to safety FM dot com and listen to some of the industry's best and most involved professionals, including Blaine Hoffman with the safety pro sam Goodman with the Hop nerd Sheldon primus with the safety consultant Jim proposal with Safety Wars, Emily, L Rod with unapologetically bold and many others. As India individuals, we can do great things. But as a team, we become amazing dial into safety FM dot com today and surround yourself with a powerful force of knowledge and support. Mhm. OSHA. Recordable first aid cases, catastrophic losses. You want answers. So do I. This is Jim proposal with safety wars. All right, welcome back everybody. So I am uh, there's some evidence that we have some new listeners out there. Uh, tonight I'm getting some messages going back and forth and everything else. So who am I? My name is Jim Postal. I'm a certified safety professional. Uh, your host here at safety words live. I have been doing safety consulting for a very long time and we'll just leave it at that. And I own a company J. C. P. Technical Services who also owns Safety Wars. And this is safety FM that you're listening to where we have 17 or 18. I don't know how many right now other podcasters and hosts that discuss safety. That's what we do. We also have uh, radio Big which is on I heart radio and on live 3 65. that's basically a music station and has J. Allen show on, which discusses safety every morning from seven a.m. Eastern time to eight a.m. Eastern time and also plays music. So that's who we are. Uh, what do I do? I do safety training. I man projects. I do safety auditing. I write safety plans and I have a whole team of people working with me helping me to do that. And that's what we do. We're here. You can reach me on safety on social media linkedin jim polls LPS and Peter O ES and SaM Ellen's and Larry that's also on instagram and on facebook. So that's where I am. We're going to be expanding this into more video uh in the very near future. It's just a matter of uh uh, doing things. So, you know, basically I do field work all day every day uh, and I do get a break and that's what I do videos. Uh, so that's what we do and what do we do here on safety words. We talk about the news and we have some commentary and uh, which we just gave at the beginning of the program, the commentary because it's uh uh, it seemed appropriate and I had promoted linton. So I wanted to do that first thing And now uh where are we here? Let's talk. We haven't really spoken about this in the last couple of days. Here is money. Industrial fell slightly today to 33,553 S and P 500 fell slightly through 39 58. NASDAQ down 1.54% to 11,183 Russell 2000 fell to 18 53 17, 10 year. Us Treasury note is at 3.7 and Bitcoin came up slightly today. The 16 7, 16,007 13 03 and crude oil came down slightly to under $85 a barrel 84 96. Now let's talk about precious metals here we have gold is holding steady at 17 80 to 70 silver at 21 63 platinum at 1201. I'm sorry, 1020. And palladium at 21 07. So that's where we are with the precious metals. Bitcoin has been going through a lot of upheaval lately felt uh significantly because of some bankruptcies in some of the exchanges and uh allegations of fraud going back and forth and Ponzi scheme. I don't know. We'll let the Justice Department figure things out on that uh and our swamp. And let's talk about the swamp uh briefly here. So, uh no, we normally do not talk about politics here too in depth other than just say things factually not what our opinions aren't necessarily, but I would like to think that my discussions here are nuanced enough people to figure out a lot of my politics. So, uh so today, the uh most sources are out there projecting the republicans have taken over the majority in the House of Representatives that came out late this afternoon. Uh they hit the magic number of 218 Democrats uh to 11. And we do have how many? Mhm. Let's do the math. Mhm. 2, 18 and 2, 11 is I do, It's 429. I did not use a calculator. So we still have as 429. So there are 435. So we have six races that are still being decided right now in the house and the Senate, We have uh 50 49 lead with this uh, with the Democrats taking control of the Senate there with one seat left to be decided in Georgia that has ranked balloting. I'm so not rank that is requiring a runoff. So what's the holdup on accounting here in Alaska? They have ranked voting and they're going to divvy up those votes on uh november 23rd, Which is a, is that thanksgiving or the day before thanksgiving? Day before thanksgiving? It's on Wednesday. And if you didn't know that thanksgiving is on a thursday again this week and this year, uh, going back into some of the other news out there. This is some, no, I cover all these safety related stories, but you just want to shake your head with some of this stuff. Right, wrong way driver, his Los Angeles, Sheriff's recruits injuring 25 5 people are in critical condition and in the 22 year old driver is being detained right now. And this was in L. A. So apparently somebody was, they were out with the Sheriff Department, their recruits doing a morning run, Someone drove down the wrong way on a one way street allegedly and then ran into a light pole. Uh now the cars car is totaled. I really don't know. You know, the guy apparently was not drunk. You have to field sobriety test and the crash is under investigation. Uh, I don't know uh, with the way things are, you gotta be very careful. Uh, no, so when you're looking at very careful, especially if you're a younger driver. Now, my, some of the questions that we would ask, let's see how many act what questions you would ask here other than the obvious driver's license and all this stuff. What I would be looking at is how experiences the driver. What were the signs adequate on that road? Uh, was that road uh, set up in such a way where you could make a wrong turn and go the wrong way on here, uh, Without realizing it, which appears to be the case. Uh, the vehicles was apparently going 30 mph and there are no skid marks on the road. Well, now I've been, uh, you know, this happened a couple of times beyond route to 87 in New Jersey where you have uh, people going, who get on the road going the wrong way? And it's like, what do you think you're seeing the back of all these signs? You're not thinking, well, maybe I'm going the wrong way. I don't know. And all the exits are on the left, not on the right, you know, but I don't know. That's what I would be looking at is, How was this setup on here? Now? The insurance companies are going, always gonna say, well, who's liable, blah, blah, blah. Well, thank God, nobody was hurt. And uh, well, thank God, nobody was killed here. People were hurt. Uh, but uh, I mean, you see all these drivers. I mean, see all these people running here now, 75 recruits, you're not gonna see that. I don't know what else is going on. There was the person on the phone, was the person distracted? Was the person have a medical emergency. All this stuff goes in here. Now, last I recovered about the Ukraine about Ukraine and the missile strike. Uh, basically what they're saying now is that these were apparently Russian made missiles. Right, Well, Ukraine used to be a soviet satellite. Used to be a soviet part of the soviet Union, USSR and uh, essentially, uh, yeah, they have a lot of Russian made weapons. They have a lot of soviet old soviet things in their arsenal apparently. Uh, these, these are anti missile missiles and anti aircraft missiles, something like that. And landed in Poland allegedly killing two people. Thank God doesn't look like anyone's going to war here. But let's remember, uh, look back, remember what happened yesterday because the people who are streaming for that for an attack and there were a lot of people out there screaming for an attack turns out they did an investigation. And guess what? Russia is probably not responsible for this on this. Uh, you know, remember that apparently I still have some lingering effects from Covid got something to drink every once in a while I go into a coughing fit. Ukrainy analysis identifies western supply chain behind Iran's drones. So Iran is using Western technology and apparently Western parts in their drone program. I'm shocked, right? Not Artemis one mission we talked about that they took off last night and they're headed to the room. That's an unmanned mission. And what the basically in the next couple of years we're hoping to have people back on the moon and establishing a moon base. Very exciting times pregnant women's exposure, the cancer causing herbicide increased more than threefold since 2017. The average level of the certain herbicide and I'm not gonna mention the name. And the urine of pregnant women has increased more than threefold since 2017. And uh, the year wise planting of these specific GMO for crops right began. So let's see if we have some type of this from the Heartland Health Research alliance. Right. Uh, so both the herbicides were used were classified as possible for citizens and are unknown to risk increase the risk of reproductive problems and adverse birth outcomes. So this is coming out of Canada, the center de toxicology de Quebec and uh included the study of 700 urine samples. So, uh, basically what are the findings of this study that they did? The average level of this chemical and urine of pregnant women has increased three or 24 fold just since 2017. Uh, there's increasing reliance on the service sides. And uh, however, there is some good news is that some other herbicides have been falling. The use has fallen and there's uh for the other herbicides because they're being substituted with this one. So what's the idea? Uh Herbicides are showing up in urine, right? I don't know what the long term effects are but it's something you need to look into. Probably something not look into but keep track of. Here's another one. Global oil inventories hit the lowest since 2004. So uh where is this uh the lowest oil inventories in developed countries since 2017 that were set to combine with the upcoming Eu embargo on Russian oil imports further tighten the oil market. Okay. So what are we doing? I remember back in 1978 I was eight years old. So we wanna we had the oil crisis here uh with the ban on oil from Iran and I remember lines to get gas. I mean it was like an afternoon deal, they got gas right uh gasoline. And that was when everybody had the big gas guzzlers. Uh 76 or 77 was the first year that there were new emissions requirements. And that was the end of the muscle car era in the United States. And uh they came out with more fuel efficient cars and more and more uh no E. P. A fuel efficient rating ratings, right? And that continues until today. Uh every couple of years they make things more efficient. But basically it was a nightmare. I mean every family out there now. It was uh, I'm having to deal with this now. Wood burning stoves. Every family seemed to have a wood burning stove. Every family. Uh, no, you're the thermostat did not go above 67° in proposal household until sometime in the late 1980s because we were always saving fuel conserving fuel. Uh, it's not like you could go out and buy a car and get 40 miles to the gallon. Most of the cars only got 10 to 15 miles to the gallon. So I think we're headed back to that this year when the prices of energy going up using less energy, less carbon emissions, things of that nature. I don't know where this is going to end up because I know people are all nice and happy when they're now warm and they're well fed. Once people start getting cold and start to, you know, we start to have inflationary issues, I think things are gonna turn to groove no real quick in some communities. I mean right now we're seeing a lot of thefts galore of catalytic converters for example. I think you're going to see the old fashioned siphoning thing, People raiding people's garages, looking for fuel, things of that nature. If these prices go up higher, just old fashioned theft. Uh, I mean it's, it's going loco out. People are getting loco here. We have another story here. There was apparently a major terrorist attack prevented by the FBI. Uh Missouri man was sentenced to 12 years in federal prison without parole today for attempting to purchase a chemical weapon capable of killing hundreds of people on the dark web with Bitcoin. Uh a man 46 I don't mention names here Of Columbia. Missouri. Missouri pleaded guilty to one count of attempting to require a chemical weapon and one count of aggravated battery theft officer. Aggravated identity theft on August in August 2020 according to court documents and uh the uh suspect admitted that he attempted to acquire a chemical weapon on two occasions back in 2018 he provided a shipping address in the name of a juvenile whose identity he used without authorization. Place orders for a highly toxic chemical and amounts capable of killing many people. So uh they're not measuring what chemical it is and I wouldn't even mention what the chemical is either. So uh a little bit late reporting that the person just got sentenced, which is I guess a good thing. But my question was part of a larger group, a thug plows over dead warriors memorial site and has this sick replied to the cops. So there was a uh thug for lack of a better word in Henderson Kentucky where where I have been, I've driven through that went on an anti american rampage, little the hoodlum mowed down 100 and 60 crosses at the memorial site for those who paid the ultimate price for our country at the memorial day cross display. Why are we getting this months later here? You know, this is at the beginning of the summer uh 27 year old. So he was driving in 1979 ford Thunderbird and abandoned it. They tracked and what did the hoodlums say? The hoodlum told them, uh, what was it? So anyway, the guy got charged and the guy got convicted of uh, you know of vandalism basically. Amazing. Okay, we already covered that story. Here's the story out of London grabbing just 30 seconds of sunlight every morning can slash the chances of developing most types of cancer significantly. Early research by one of the United Kingdom's leading specialist says dr Mohammed Munib khan says that less than half of a minute's exposure to the sun's near infrared light between sunrise and nine a.m. They offer a higher level of protection to adults and Children than eating 2500 bananas or a kilogram of Brazil nuts per day. 2500 bananas. Well, I read about a year ago that they were going through a huge banana shortage. Now, believe it or not. Uh if you recall that old song, we have no bananas. Yes, we have no bananas today. There used to be a different type of banana back in the early part of the 19 hundreds that was blighted and is very rare in the United States nowadays. And they moved into the new type of banana and apparently from what my father said, the old type of banana that they used to have was much better than this one. I might, might just be nostalgia talking there. But what the idea is, ah, now it's near infrared light is invisible in human on human eye and it's most effective at dawn with its beneficial effect gradually waiting through the day. Uh okay, well that's something good to know, right? We don't spend enough time outside. Here's some things from twitter and is this a good way of managing employees. Emma must gives employees two days to commit to hardcore Twitter or lose their jobs. So twitter we know has been taken over almost two weeks ago by Elon musk and he's doing a complete revamp of corporate culture. Uh, for whatever reason he feels that people should be working in the office and uh, he fired a couple of employees for mouthing off to him, one for mouthing off to him on twitter. Not always a good idea to mouth off to your boss on twitter, I think they were pretty in Oculus comments, but uh, but what do I know, I'm not a billionaire. So, uh, if you recall right, uh, and he said no, they're having growing pains, but basically what he says is, look, we gotta get this stuff. Uh, got the show on the road here and get things back up and running here and make this a profitable company and he's basically getting rid of what he sees is useless people, uh useless positions or anything else. I don't know what that's gonna do for the rest of the company. I've been involved with a lot of companies over the years where they have done this, they've just gone out there and wanting the fired people laid people off done with these huge cutbacks and either it becomes a hellish place to work for the people remaining and then you get more turnover or uh it turns the company completely around and they write because they're quote unquote, getting rid of deadwood. So uh you gotta be very careful who you fire and who you don't fire. He already made a couple of mistakes in the last couple of weeks if you've been following this because he got rid of some people that really know how the software works. Uh and what he wants to do is make this more of an engineering company where we're gonna be engineering the platform and everything else. Not so much the software, there are other companies know this is going on all over the place. Amazon is a big one. Getting rid of a lot of oversight. Adobe industries. My wife was reading uh No adobe. Right? Yeah. The software people with the adobe suite, they're getting, they have a layoff there apparently having a layoff also and a lot of other software companies, so not unheard of, how much is this related to L. A. Must take over versus just the ebb and flow of business. I don't know. But were to be seen I guess a lot of news on earthquakes if we recall uh earlier this week or it might have been late last week. There were earthquakes in Louisiana. Now there is our worst earthquakes near door right right down the street in texas. So uh where is it in texas? It's closer to the colorado Nevada. I guess that's Nevada Utah Utah border all over there on the uh western part of texas. Is what I'm looking at. Uh you're talking uh it's the third largest earthquake recorded in texas history. Is there's something else going on here uh with earthquakes. Uh just a little bit of this uh concerning here I got a brush of our my geography a little bit. Sos Arizona Utah, Nevada and colorado isn't it? Let me get out the map. Okay, here we go. I was wrong. The texas immediately west of texas's new Mexico. You know, there's going to be a big conference there. Uh safety differently in santa fe new Mexico in March. You may want to look into that. I plan on going some good news on the rentals front. Scientists create a vaccine for fentaNYL that stops you from getting high on the protein opio that kills 200 americans per day. This is from the University of Houston. Uh it's a three dose shot and it uh, basically this might be a game changer. If this gets FDA approval With this. Uh, basically what it comes down to is we have 71,000 people over some estimates are higher than that fentaNYL deaths per year in the United States. Uh, we mentioned about uh, the demographic situation where now these are not older people who are dying on here on the top of the population pyramid. This is people in the middle of population pyramid and lower on it. Which means when you start screwing around with the population pyramid, you can only expect bad things to happen demography demographically because uh, demographics or demography drives our society. And what is, so this might be some of the uh, a game changer with fentaNYL. Now my question is this, did the president who met with the Jinping the other day? The chinese president, Did he uh, did they talk about the fentaNYL crisis? Because most of the feedstock for fentaNYL comes from china through Mexico. Apparently this is what allegedly the government is saying to us, we're going to take a slight break and I will see you after the break. You are listening to safety wars. Tomorrow's safety. Today is your safety training old stale. And Hackney is your safety trainer still preaching a warped version of behavior based safety. How about safety training that actually addresses your hazards in your workplace is, and it's not standardized bologna from 25 years ago. Contact the safety ward's team at safety words dot com or call jim postal at 845 to 69577. To remember if you're receiving this message, you are the solution to unsafe workplaces. Okay. We're back where it's uh, Right now I'm looking up, I'm in 1903 here, uh, because I want to make sure that I get the numbers right. Okay. So earlier this week, we had mentioned about a company, uh, with a proposed citation. And I'm gonna remember, let me mention this and this is one of the few times I'm going to mention a company name here with this. All right. And I want to stress that everyone is in is in a central proven guilty. This is a proposed find, but it's not being reported as a proposed fine in the news video. It is. So this is one of the reasons why I am here. I see news reports come out and I said, you know what? They're not telling you everything in there. This is made to manipulate people and they're not telling you, uh, everything in here. Right? And then when you go into the comments, uh, no. If they, if you're on a site where they allow comments on news stories and you hear even more baloney on there with people who probably could use an outreach course and you can contact us at 84 or 5 to 6957 70 or gym at safety words dot com to schedule your outreach training. So, uh, basically this is what it is. Uh, no and all the subjects negotiated down may be vacated and all things. So this is just a proposed citation, right caterpillars find 100 and 45 K after worker falls into pot of molten iron and is immediately immediately incinerated. OSHA says, Uh, I'm gonna give myself one more minute here. Right, hold on, let me look up. So you can actually get uh, if you go to OSHA dot Gov and consider this part of our program here, they have what is called the establishment search and what that does is, and you're able to look up an employer assuming you have the right name. I'm the employer and you're able to see if OSHA has paid them a visit. Right? So here we go. Uh, this was issued. Do do do, hold on. So we are looking at this particular company, Let's see the investigations. You know, the establishment search, I should probably have this one on video and let us try this out. Hold on. Bear with me, OSHA dot com. I cannot find. Now this is very frustrating here, hold on because they do not have it. It's even more frustrating if you're on the other end, I'm sure they should have the establishment. So I'm not gonna be asked anybody here. I ran out of news stories and commentary and I wanted to do this one. I want to hold off doing this until uh later on until tomorrow but I'm jumping ahead. So I am in the news release portion. Okay this is from the 9th. I have the original citation. So well let's start over here caterpillar was fined 145 K after worker falls into a pot of molten material. Alright. The advantage of having an establishment search and also the ocean website is that you when you see a uh news story, you're able to go and actually get the real document from the government right? What exactly happened? So it goes in here and it would be no you read this and all of the stories, they just say oh well they got a citation blah blah blah blah blah. And then you get complaints. All this is ridiculous early because someone died 100 and $36,000 blah blah blah. We'll go into this in a minute. So I have the original uh citation that they posted on their uh website. So this is citation. No no uh notification of penalty to caterpillar incorporated. It's all on the public record and its successors. Uh the inspection date was between 62 and 10 28 2022 10 28. They closed down the investigation. They issued it on the 11th where the inspection was the second of june june. That means it probably happened on the first of june and they have six months to issue the citation which will bring that to december. And when did they issue this in november? So a little bit over five months later they issued this. Okay you go through this and it says uh the law requires that a copy of the citation notification of penalty be posted immediately in a prominent place at or near the location of the violation cited here in or if there is not practical or if it is not practicable, practicable, practicable. I don't know how to pronounce that because of the nation employees operations where it will be readily observable by all affected employees. So you hanging on like a bulletin board or somewhere in the public Viewing place. Everybody can see it. The citation must remain posted until the violations cited here and have been abated or for three working days excluding weekends or and federal holidays, whichever is uh norm right proper. So an informal conference not required. But if you wish to have a conference may request one within 15 days. Again you have to have hit these numbers here right there are, you can have the right to contest, you have the right to an informal contest uh conference and all this stuff. Now, what often happens is that the person handling the mail does not actually uh realize that they're saying they're saying the department of labor thing? They often think it's junk mail and what ends up happening, They end up having to go and they end up having to throw it out and then the company. Well tough luck we never received it. Well guess what we sail, sent it out so often sent by certified mail. Maybe the male persons or or the person responsible is out of the office on vacation. What have you? This is the kind of thing that you have to be looking for for what it comes in. So whoever's handling the mail, if someone's going on vacation, what have you? If this comes in from the D. O. L. Or from OSHA, you have to make sure that when the person in charge gets this, the attorneys gets this, somebody gets this For each violation. You do not contest. You must provide a babe in certification to the area director of OSHA issuing the citation within 10 calendar days. Right. And it goes, I would get suggest you get the sub abated immediately. So going down into what the citation is citation, one item, one type of violation willful serious. This is under the uh walking working services. Standard 29 CFR 1910.28 sub paragraph B six. I write little I the employer did not ensure that each employee less than four ft above dangerous equipment is protected from falling into or onto the dangerous equipment by a guard rail system or travel restraint system. Unless the equipment is covered or regarded to eliminate the hazard on or about May 26th through june 22nd employees were exposed to unprotected fall hazards into melter, one melter to melt into three containing molten iron at temperatures in excess of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit across three trips daily at the employer employers. Mapleton Illinois is facility. These exposures included the following employee work activities, one taking temperature readings to taking button samples, three taking thermal cups and four adding alloy bags directly to the uh, to the melters. The fine $145,027 And they issued one right now there's a lot of complaints out there. Well versed man dying. You're proposing. And again, that might be getting to go to dad, negotiated down, settled, vacated. Any of the above. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But one of the most unknown misunderstood things are OSHA citations and OSHA violations and the penalties. I'm gonna be honest with you. Pardon me. I thank God for the cough button here. Sometimes it baffles the people are somewhat familiar with this. What the penalties are, what the settlements are and everything else. But every situation is different and there are mitigating circumstances and everything else. And you may say, well, why are they doing this? I don't know why they're doing this. Why Why do they settle? I don't know why they settled this. Why are they? We don't know. All right. I trust that they're doing the right thing. All right. They're usually doing the right thing. They're relatively uh people that I haven't dealt with have all been pretty fair. Have all been pretty reasonable very rarely. Do you ever get somebody who's not very fair and very reasonable. Alright, so there are several different, so this is one of this the January 15 of every year. Going back a number of years now. During from the Obama administration I believe it was 2015. They have adjusted the penalties upward. So for uh close to 50 years, the penalties of 45 years, the penalties are like 7000 up to like 14,000 something like that were very low penalties. And the Obama administration agree or disagree. They decided to put them more in line. So you have several Uh levels of violations. # one, we're gonna do this posting uh requirement violation. What suppose you don't put up a sign, you know, put a posting requirement of a citation, anything like that. It's the penalty is 14,000 up to 14,502. A failure to correct violation. And this is all in 29 CFR 1903 Uh support 15, failure to correct the violation Up to $14,502 per day. Other than serious, what are we talking about? Other than serious other than serious means that it's not likely to create a serious Hazard. Not likely to cause anything major to have in here. It's $14,502 not to exceed a serious violation Is 11 where it's likely you're going to get hurt, someone's gonna get hurt, it's 14,502. Then you get into the big ones, the repeat repeated violation. So they cite you on something and then they come back in a period of time afterwards and guess what, you can do it again right? And and so repeat. It's not fixed. You never repeated it. This is where the one uh really cheap retail establishment that's getting whacked with violations in the hundreds of thousands of dollars every quarter or so. This is their issue is with repeated violations where they can cover one violation in one store on one part of the country and then they go to another store in another part of the country. Same violation. Now that's a repeat violation. What caterpillar got whacked here was with a willful violation and the penalty for willful violation uh starts uh hold on Got some back office stuff we're taking care of here right? For willful violation is anywhere from 10,360 and not to exceed 145,000 right? And 145,027. So caterpillar got the proposed citation is the maximum. Now let's talk about this depending on the size of your company and what you're able to negotiate down right? And I assure you over a willful violation or a serious violation. And if you have multiple ones, you're probably gonna want to have to get your gonna have needs an attorney at that point, I always recommend an attorney no small violation. A couple of 1000. Okay. You know, we can always help you out on that. But we refer things. We have a an attorney that we work with that. We were when you're getting a willful violation or on these big numbers here, you need some, you need to bring in the big guns here, so to speak now, figuratively right, bring in the person. These got negotiated down depending on the size of your company and other mitigating factors. And sometimes OSHA will vacate things if that you could argue in the informal conference and everything. Hopefully everything's taken care about the informal conference. Now I uh was involved in a fatality investigation where the person, uh, there was a fatality and OSHA cited. It was very low the proposed citation. And often what OSHA does what I'm told by OSHA site people now is that they'll propose a small uh, fine to get you to admit your guilt because they think there's gonna be a civil case or a criminal case here. So if you can admit, hey, yeah, I violated OSHA, I violated something. Now it makes it easier for a civil case to proceed on behalf of whoever got injured with that. So sometimes they do that. Uh, you also have, here's something else, right? A provo with this penalty shall not be proposed for de minimus violations which have no direct or immediate relationship to safety and health. So that's another thing I didn't mention. So that often happens. And uh, there was one famous case with a amusement park where a whale had killed a trainer allegedly. And uh, it was a very small penalty, relatively ocean assessed. And they fought that penalty for 10 years why they didn't want to admit guilt. And they were able to to delay all the other legal proceedings says that we're under potential investor federal investigation. We can't, you know, with that. And they were able to delay the case for a couple of years. All that stuff goes in there and all everything here. And if you're a new listener welcome uh, and all that stuff that we talk about here is all about fighting that ongoing safety war for safety wars. This is jim proposal. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. It should not be utilized in the real world as the only solution available as they are based only on very limited and dated open source information, assumptions made within this analysis are not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, electronic recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast, J. Allen.