[00:00:01] spk_1: is brought to you by safety FM. Oh, what do you get when you

 

[00:00:11] JR Kitchens: bring together safety professionals from Alaska? Montana? In east Tennessee, you get a podcast whether twang hosted by Alan Woolford, J R Kitchens and Betty Stout dragging up 6.0, is on the air wherever you go on the Internet dragging up six point. Oh, is there with you

 

 

[00:00:38] JR Kitchens: So tell me this. Alan, why did you start the podcast and why did you name it? Dragging up 6.0.

 

[00:00:46] Allen Woffard: Yeah, that’s a good question.

 

[00:00:49] JR Kitchens: Alright, cool. That's our show

 

[00:00:51] Allen Woffard: s Oh, you know we got you don't know. But about a year or so ago, I got interviewed by Sheldon Primus who was my instructor for the COSS certified occupational safety specialist and one of the things I noticed, especially with all this covert shit going on. Uh, you know, they were talking about people were going into home based training while they were on furlough, and, uh, I didn't want it to be like anybody else. I didn't wanted to annotate or you know, state or declare. You know, this is only for safety related podcast. I mean, if you listen to many JR. I mean, seriously. Have you listened Thio

 

[00:01:34] JR Kitchens: lately? I have, Yes. Yes. Now, Before we started this, I didn't. But now I do. I don't know why I got the itch, I guess.

 

[00:01:41] Allen Woffard: Well, you know, I started listening, and after I got interviewed by safety Justice League, I was like, you know, this is an interesting concept, especially being a trainer. You know, one of the things I found was that if you actually talk to somebody and you actually communicating with him and not just telling him stuff and saying, you know, your bad, uh, this sucks, Uh, your work is complete. Shit. You really need to focus more on this.

 

[00:02:09] JR Kitchens: Just kind of explain the details to him. Yeah,

 

[00:02:11] Allen Woffard: right. But one of the things I got, you know, I listened to safety Justice League. I e really enjoyed some of the questions that they had about, you know, How did you get started into it? You know what made you want to choose this over that you know, construction, general industry, whatever. Hazmat and you know, I got to listen. So their podcasts and a lot of these people had very identical backgrounds. They had, you know, a lot of interesting ideas and how they did safety. And they talked about all these conferences and for the life of me, I could not see any benefit to safety anything they were saying. I mean, here's safety professionals interviewing other safety professionals, and they weren't speaking to, ah, group that really needed it. You know, they were reinforcing that were building up, that we're hoping get those people's names out there. But I just didn't see any benefit to it. I didn't see how it benefitted safety in any way. And you ask about the name, the reason the dragon up 6.0, came out. You know, uh, somebody had asked me before They said, Well, Alan, you know that That's kind of an odd name for it. And I said, Well, you know, or have you been in construction? And they said, no, you know, it wasn't something that was familiar to him, and I said, Well, in construction, they have a lot of things, but basically dragging up is, you know, when a person's done there, they're filled up on and they're just tired of, you know, shit that's going on site and any number of things eso the way six point outcomes and you've got six levels of safety actual reasons for dragging up number one. People drag up because of bad management, bad engineering, you know, um, number two. A lot of we, the supervisors, your contractors, you got other, uh, management in the field. You know, maybe they got informing That's a complete ask. Uh, then below that, you know, you've got other workers. Either they're really unsafe. Um, they've just got, uh yeah, you know, And then as you go down from one, being management on, then unsafe, you know, unsafe for and sanitary site. Uh, being number five, number six was basic safety. You know, they did not feel safe out there. And I thought, Well, you know, since we're truly about getting to the guys with boots on the grounds with tools in their hands, But let's put it in the name that they understand so that they know it's for, oddly enough, even some of the guys have dragged up said, Well, you know, we just drag up to drag up. You know, we didn't know you guys kept track of this shit. It was like, Well, yeah, you know, because how are we going to succeed in getting production done if we don't know why you left? And so by putting up, dragging up 6.0, the people that have quit Ah, job site because they thought it was unsafe because they had shitty safety programs. You know, that's why we came up with that name. And it's kinda odd, you know, when starting it up, I just was gonna ramble about safety observations, trying to get some of the guys to come on here. And there was a huge interest. I mean, if you think about it every other time you drive by a house or something, you know, somebody built that every time you drugged by a plant. People built this so hundreds of thousands of guys out there with their own versions of safety and what works and doesn't work. So we started reaching out, and people have worked on the construction sites with or general industry. You know, I was a safety. Well, Alan, you know you do okay, But you beat us about the head and foot with this and that. Um, you know, it's not that they felt that they were being abused, but they said, Well, on my other job, we went through three days orientation. No one ever stopped me. No one ever said, Hey, you know how many pounds of horses that's supposed to hold. And so when you got six people tied off, if it's only rated for, you know, two people, somebody's gonna get hurt on that. Six. If you

 

[00:06:15] JR Kitchens: got they just don't realize that, right? Just don't whatever. They were a big deal. Yeah,

 

[00:06:22] Allen Woffard: so by getting them to think about it, you know, I was like, OK, if I'm communicating this and I'm getting now, how can I reach the ones I don't see any more? So I thought, you know, let's let's get a podcast going, get this out to the guys and get some support and and it's kind of strange because a couple of them said Island, that you guys don't sound anything like it. Some of the others we heard and I said, Well, we're not, you know, and again it goes back to the guys with boots on the ground. So, you know, that was one of the great things about having Jody yesterday. Because if you listen to a lot of people, whether it's a craftsman or it's the safety big things finding jobs right now, I mean, it's huge, but a lot, a lot of them don't understand. Hey, I'm applying for this. I'm applying for that. And, you know,

 

[00:07:05] JR Kitchens: why don't I hear anything back? What's the deal? You so egotistical in your job that you just don't care? You just, you know, playing the playing the numbers. And she she really got into detail, and she's pretty pretty nice, Cal. I mean, the the fact that she says, you know hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna call the person, right and get the get the just audible profile, right? Yeah. So, yeah, I agree with you a great, great lady.

 

[00:07:36] Allen Woffard: What do you think is the problem with some people, JR? They just I mean, I understand they put him resumes ago, But, you know, one of the things I'm seeing is, uh, if you went to some of the Facebook safety professional sites, uh, you know, a lot of great people asking good questions, you know? Where do I get my training? How do I get my foot in the door on then? You've got a bunch of these jackasses. Uh, they're supposed to be safety professionals talking complete shit. And I'm thinking, See, that's another reason I don't want to just do a safety manager to safety, professional or practitioner type of deal because they wanted to pump themselves up.

 

[00:08:16] JR Kitchens: Nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear that. You're the greatest. You're the best you are.

 

[00:08:21] Allen Woffard: But you 1500 fatalities fucking didn't even come out of the office,

 

[00:08:25] JR Kitchens: didn't even come out of the office. Amen. That's what I'm saying. Well, I don't I don't know, but all I know Well, I'll refer to radio Broadcaster that I want to do that, uh, a good broadcaster, but a real ass. Uh, somebody would call up request. Uh, and some jocks don't care about the request. Yeah, just a caller. He's got nothing else to David. Call me. Hey, what's going on? Like? And I don't mean to sound like what, man? Because he's pretty good guy. Yeah. Shut down, down, baby. Allen's got you. Bucklew. But Anyway, What I'm saying is I don't know, Know what I'm saying is he would get the caller and he going, Yeah, we'll put that on and bang the this one. They had phones, actual phone, hang the phone and then hanging up. Yeah, screw that guy or screw that lady. Dude, that's your audience. That's your audience, man. Well, I think the same goes for for the safety folks that sometimes they get that ego and they don't care. I'm at the top of the heap. Screw you. Long as I make my number's a song as I get my awards, I don't care about awards. They could take the wards and shove them. I don't care. You know what I care is that that man is still walking around safe and he goes to his job and he goes home to his family alive with all his arms, all his fingers, all his toes. That's what I care

 

[00:09:59] Allen Woffard: about. No, absolutely. You know, you're talking about They talk about certifications and, uh, you know, some of them are getting their like, CSP, and they're getting their designations. So about a week ago, I removed all my designations. If you go on linked in all the ones I have are gone And people were like, You know, when the other podcasters whether it's Linda Safety, Justice League and you know, there, they're doing a good thing by putting in, you know, hey, these air safety professionals we'd like to hear from And you see like so and so with a B c D e f J k. And then there's just Alan Woolford and people like, Hey, Helen, didn't you have, like, costs and CSM and all this? And I said, Yeah, I just wanted to see something And so I removed it. They said, Would you lose your designation? I said, No, I earned it. But what I did was by removing that and just having my experience, you know, when people were putting up names and say, Oh, Alan, are you safety guy because I didn't have I said, Yeah, look at the profile and then they look at it. And then I said, OK, here's a snapshot of my inbox, and it's where people are like, Hey, are you available for a job? Because, like, you know, uh, Jody was saying yesterday when they do keyword searches and, you know, they're looking for things that showed up right? And I said, Now do the same thing and look at CSP and Brother God. There must have been hundreds that showed up, you know, in that search. And I said, Okay, now out of that, I said, add another filter and put down trainer and it dropped significantly. And I said So you know, now I'm only compete with this, but the thing that's killing me right now is everybody thinks, you know, they just keep stacking this shit up and stacking this shit up. And it's good you need to get, you know, improvement, especially if you're gonna move from a field safety to director level. But, you know, it's like everybody says, Oh, she's got a beautiful black dress. I'm gonna go get my wife for it. It's not the same thing. There are some great C S P s out there. There's some absolute shit CS piece. Um and I think in part where a lot of them think, you know, they need to get this designation and it's nothing against the CSP. I'm just I'm just talking about the market. Everybody sees that you know, people say, Hey, you need a C h S t. You need this. You need that. So hundreds of people are jumping at it, and then they're flooding the market there, wondering why they can't get a job, you know? And so with the podcast, I was hoping one things we could do is like, you don't need those designations. I've removed everyone from my name and I'm getting hit continuously with job offers.

 

[00:12:50] JR Kitchens: So what you're saying is that you took that away from your name that you put up, but yet if they check your profile, they could see all certifications.

 

[00:12:59] Allen Woffard: But see, some of these guys are like, No, you know, I gotta put it in. So it's found. I said no, A certification. You've got great training. And that's one of things. I was glad, you know, Jody said, Oh, yeah, you know, they wanna look at this for, you know, potential buildup, directorship, manager and stuff. But what they need to have, you know, some experience. So one of the things you know we're trying to do with the podcast and I hope is to talk people to build up, you know, don't just go to school for this, then hit that. Get a few years in the future.

 

[00:13:28] JR Kitchens: Don't ride to CST certificate. Don't ride, hasn't certificate, be who you are and, uh, and learn. It's I guess it's like like reading a story and then telling somebody the story word for word number one, you're gonna you're gonna fall asleep. Number two they're not gonna really care. But yet if you if you explain to him, here's why. Why we do this. Here's why I ride your ass all the time because you don't want your safety glasses. Here's here's Here's why I ride your ass because you don't want your filtration system or, you know where your hard toed shoes there's a guy that lost his toes, you know, anyway, with it with a podcast, like like we do. It's almost a different a different look at the overall picture, right? But

 

[00:14:13] Allen Woffard: yeah, and say I'm not. And again, you know, we're talking about CSP and for you know, all of our friends or C S. P s. We're not we're not slamming. Do. That's not an easy thing to get. You got to do a lot of studying and you gotta pay out a lot of money. But one thing I want you to know, you don't need to keep paying money. If you're gonna be a good safety and you're gonna specialize, you know, look at what you're going into. Quit stacking up certifications. Just so you get an extension on your name, you're not fucking checklist. Slovakia. So if it is your desire to be a director or something great, you know, do that, work that into that, uh, you know, five year plan or 10 year plan. But but don't just sit there and, you know, keep building up things without actually putting some work into it.

 

[00:15:00] JR Kitchens: I believe it wholeheartedly because I have no certification to speak of. I mean, I have HSC manager I got from floor, you know, two day, three day class, whatever that explains to you takes. Here's a picture. Who's doing it wrong? Well, that guy and that guy and that guy. Okay, here's your certificate. Well, thank you very much. I can use that for you know I don't, so I don't get a ring for my coffee cup on the table. E. I can use it to you know, do other things, but but, uh, it doesn't help me at all. Getting a job. What helps me getting a job is my experience that Yes. I had two years with zero lost time accidents. Had five years with zero lost time accidents. I had saved people. I had people that's

 

[00:15:43] Allen Woffard: gonna ask you self employed or, you know, was that on?

 

[00:15:45] JR Kitchens: Yeah. No, I'm self employed and I never got an accident. One time I got my my fingers cut off, but I didn't tell nobody bullet. Yeah. Yeah. So 00 finger. Zero accidents, right? Yeah. Did you lose any fingers? No, I don't have any. You

 

[00:16:02] Allen Woffard: can't lose. No, I don't have again, You know, for anybody that's listening, not slamming on the CSP.

 

[00:16:08] JR Kitchens: Sure. No, no.

 

[00:16:09] Allen Woffard: The roundabout thing that I'm trying to get the jr asked me why we're doing this podcast. Because the shit you guys were doing, going to conferences, that does nothing for safety. And I know you feel it does. And I know it's a great way to help. You know, organizations build money, but when you go to put boots on the ground, where you gonna take away from that conference that's gonna be effective in the field. You e

 

[00:16:32] JR Kitchens: I want to take away what I learned from the other safety people.

 

[00:16:35] Allen Woffard: You're definitely gonna do that, brother, But if you see some of the stuff they're promoting, you know, like certain fall arrest systems and certain types of equipment for, you know, lone worker tracking If you look at a lot of the industry, a lot of small businesses. Yeah, you got Turner, and you got some of the big outfits that can afford stuff like this, but where their programs. And I'm not saying Turner, I'm just throwing that out because it's the name people recognize. Um, but, you know, there's some big companies, you know, you and I have worked for, and, you know, if you think about it, a lot of the safety programs are absolute shit, because they'll get a big project. They'll get

 

[00:17:13] JR Kitchens: status status quo. That's all they are. Status quo.

 

[00:17:16] Allen Woffard: Yeah, They'll

 

[00:17:16] JR Kitchens: have a safety program. Oh, yeah,

 

[00:17:18] Allen Woffard: but, you know, you get a guy into orientation on a big job site. I've seen this and they go through the three day orientation. They're told about site specifics and then I asked the safety guys, and this is during a recent construction thing I did before coming over the Joel industry. I said, I need your training records where you trained him to your company's lockout tag out program. Well, he's just attempt Contractor. I said, Yep, But he's wearing your gear. He's under your company. I need to see where you trained him and provided him locks for lockers, tag out or fall protection. I can't tell you how many companies, and I blame a lot of, uh companies about this. You know, they hire on temps for construction project or anything else since, Like, did you verify they have fall protection training? Well, no. They got any WP card. They're allowed toe work in it. I said, That's true. But who tell them what to do in case they fall in their harness and get, you know, fall shock. Ortho static intolerance. Are you Are you sure that they're trained on how to self rescue? Well, no, we're just getting this based off that card, and you know, one of the things Shane and everybody else has seen the field. There's a lot of false documents out there or something that got off line and so you could walk up and say, Hey, how maney, How many feet air you love to fall towards the next level? 0 10 ft, as I really with a harness on. What's the max? You're allowed to fall, and they're like, 6 ft. And I said, Okay. Do you have a shop pack on? Uh, yeah, I said, how many feet is that's, But can that be? You know, they don't understand 3 ft. They don't understand all the limits. And, you know, it just pisses me off because there's all these safeties out there, Uh, that just don't take the time, you know, and some don't have the time. But instead of going to conferences instead of learning how to do just root cause analysis, you don't have to learn that stuff. If you got a good program, you train your people, will, you know. Yes. There's gonna be incidents in times where you need to do that. But that's not your focal point. Yeah, get on the field train. You know, right now, yes, it is hard during cove it And that's why our podcast important stopped talking to each other stop fluffing up each other's ass unless it's something spectacular like Sam. I just read Sam's book. Safety sucks. It was great, you know, seeing a lot of stuff. He came out from, uh, different industries, you know, basically, with power plants. So Sam Goodman's book I was looking at that said, You know that that's a good aspect. Why are so many guys taking shit? You know, from, uh, their contractors there, GCS and their own companies? Because there's 1000 others waiting to take the job. But what I liked about Sam he started with tools, worked his way up, And that's why he's a great safety got, you know, that's why his book is gonna help a lot of people. Uh, look at the safeties, I'd say, Yeah, shit. You know, going to conferences. Getting all this does not help keep people safe.

 

[00:20:19] JR Kitchens: Elaborate on the book What What is the Sam's full name?

 

[00:20:23] Allen Woffard: Sam Goodman. And the book's name is Safety sucks. Uh, you could find it on Amazon. That's what I did. I downloaded the thing. JR. It is a great book. He talks.

 

[00:20:34] JR Kitchens: Is it a big book like 506 pages or

 

[00:20:36] Allen Woffard: No, no, it's not a huge I finished it in two days, and I probably read one word every 30 minutes

 

[00:20:42] JR Kitchens: where you sit on the toilet at the time. And did your legs

 

[00:20:45] Allen Woffard: follow? It's finished, brother. So I started at work. Um, I was just going through a lot of it and I said, Huh. So came home Just kept going through because I was looking at, you know, similar relationships. Yeah, kept my attention. Um, because, you know, it goes in line with what Linda Martin's new show safety struggles goes in line with her because it's talks about, you know, difficulties, how to deal with clients and how to deal with management. Um, but where I can relate and people that know me in the field If you fought with me on safety, I would drag your ass to the door. No, it's true.

 

[00:21:26] JR Kitchens: Oh, it's It's just the way you explained it that Z.

 

[00:21:30] Allen Woffard: I hate to say it like that, but people know if you don't follow the safety program and you come up a za manager and you try to tell me how to run safety when you know I'm the one that has to deal with the repercussions.

 

[00:21:43] JR Kitchens: Do you run into that? A lot. Where management goes a calm yourself down. Uh, you know, this is if we can we can make happen. If we could make half a screw safety. You never heard that If we could make half a cent Screw safety. I've

 

[00:21:56] Allen Woffard: been lucky. I've not seen that. But I've seen some people say, Hey, you know, let's get this cheaper and I'll say no, because you're talking about saving money. If I spend $10 more, you're gonna replace it less because it's it's a better value, but yeah, I'm passionate about it. You know, I I truly believe safety is a buffer between management, production or management construction. You know, we should be the eyes in the back of their heads. That's what we've been given the privilege of doing. We don't work. We're not in there to be managers. If you are you guys, that's a different level. You know, I'm talking about true safety, not people developing or renting a safety program. But I'm talking about doing a true safety job. You've got to be out there. You gotta be training them to the environment to the

 

[00:22:44] JR Kitchens: you know you can actually use. You got other stuff at least know how to look up in article and and then interpret that into layman terminology.

 

[00:22:53] Allen Woffard: And here's a good example.

 

[00:22:55] JR Kitchens: What am I gonna write that down?

 

[00:22:56] Allen Woffard: Do you better use that speaking spill on? Don't kidding. Yeah. Big words like the and have kind

 

[00:23:04] JR Kitchens: of in mayonnaise, but mayonnaise. A lot of people in safety.

 

[00:23:08] Allen Woffard: One of the things you know it. And I'm guys for those listening. I'm not throwing in like Sam Goodman. I'm giving them credibility. And this is not something you just paid Meteo say I'm not doing. Just know we're on safety, F and it's a good fucking book

 

[00:23:23] JR Kitchens: you can tell. Yeah, you could tell you. Do you read the book and picture interest? Because,

 

[00:23:30] Allen Woffard: Yes, I I think there should be a part two on. Like how? Safety guys Condell with this a little bit more.

 

[00:23:36] JR Kitchens: Maybe we should get him on the on the show.

 

[00:23:38] Allen Woffard: Yeah, Yeah, let's do that. Another person I want to get in. You know, it is Eric gives less, um, with the N s P. Now, a lot of people don't like any SP because and that's national associations, safety professionals. They're based out of Wilmington, North Carolina. But one of the things I absolutely love about Eric, um, he has a great instructor. He had boots on the ground, you know, he worked the largest pork production facility in the world. So he had food safety, had employees safety, you know, all kinds of programs, hazardous materials. But one of the things when he trained me to be has Whopper Train the trainer, and hey worked with me on on some of the projects where I was training. This one of the things that people like, you know, we talked about training all the time. You know, the guys that these facilities that Eric and I would address, you know, I'd get firefighters to come out and say, Well, here's how we do it And I was like, Man, that's great, I said. But we're dealing with anhydrous ammonia. This facility does not have fire trucks, they don't have firefighters. And we've got to train them to their facility with the equipment they have available and with their limited actions with actual leaks and events. That's what we do you know annual certifications? But the same thing has to be said for safety guys, you know, I could train has Whopper. And I've had firefighters. And I've had nurses argue with me about first aid. And I'll say your understanding of this incident is because you got a car wrecks and you look at your emergency response guide and it says, Take these actions. I said I deal with a specific site 52 known chemicals and I have the S d s s. I'm treating them under section five of the S D s. You know? Excuse me. Actually section for the STS under first State, and it says use, you know, oxygen. I don't have to have nasal cannula is, um shit. But you know, people don't understand when they're training others. It's like, Yeah, if I'm at this facility and the train or traffic blocks Theobald ity for ambulance to get in, I'm gonna be the first responder. You bet, you know, and that

 

[00:25:51] JR Kitchens: they need to know they need to know they're they're coming to a to a location that they really don't know where to go, what to do. So

 

[00:25:58] Allen Woffard: we trained differently to that site on General when you and I were in Alaska. How long? If if it took a medevac to get out to the island. How long could that tape?

 

[00:26:08] JR Kitchens: Oh, my gosh. Probably 23 days, Because I've got to get set up. E gotta fuel the plane. They have to wait for the plane to come back if it's on a, uh, if it's on the flight, they've gotta wait for that to come back land, refuel it, refurbish it, send it out, and and it takes at least 3 to 4 hours. Or maybe five hours to fly out to the island s. Exactly. Exactly. Usually there were a small Lear jet or something like that, so they could go pretty fast, But, yeah, it took a while. So? So the people the ph on the island had to know what to do and how to react to a certain situation. Heart attack or or or asthma or whatever. It might be, right.

 

[00:26:53] Allen Woffard: Yeah. And for all your safety is listening. You know where you look on LinkedIn and you see some of the odd training I do, you know? And this was beautiful. I don't know if you saw it, Jr. But I did a class on CO two fire extinguishers. And this It's a There's a bigger project coming up with this than working with damn wilder with his safety, uh, filming an educational program, Uh, still trying to work some stuff out. But we're, you know, firefighters and people with some experience said, Well, you can't use the co two extinguisher inside of a confined space. I said, Yeah, you can. And I said again, you're going off your thing as a firefighter, you think a single co two fire extinguisher is gonna flood it with non breathable air? I was like, if you really understood confined spaces, you understand you got ventilation going on CO two is heavier than air. I would have to basically be in a bowl with no ventilation to joke us out. And, you know, it was because of their understanding. Never use it in the space like this. Don't do this. They didn't understand. So what we did is we actually filmed in a confined space with their monitors, and this is something you know, I'm trying toe

 

[00:28:10] JR Kitchens: touched on this, uh,

 

[00:28:14] Allen Woffard: you know, we're talking about that. But the other thing we talked about was first aid and us telling people. Okay, you're brand new to a facility, Jr. Let's just say you walked into your house for the first time, you know, And that's just imagine that that's a job site. If you get a cut, where's your closest first day box? Do you automatically know?

 

[00:28:36] JR Kitchens: Right And and I would because I'm that kind of person. But but where is it and what is inside?

 

[00:28:47] Allen Woffard: And here's one of things I teach people. Now. Every time when we get orientation, we tell guys, Hey, if you get a cut, what stops the bleeding immediately and you know that people are talking. Oh, you put pressure on you do this, I said, Great, great, great, I said Now, Yeah, I said. But you're new to this site. I was like, How many times did you go on break? And they said to and lunch I said, So what can you use in the break room or in a break area that will stop bleeding immediately, I said. Imagine you're on a construction site and they're looking. I said, sugar pour sugar on it and they're like, Oh, that's bullshit. So would pull up, you know? Hey, I Google it and I show Hey, look in Africa, where they can't store certain bandages and stuff. Look what they used to stop bleeding immediately. And they're like, Well, why would you do that here? I said, I just asked you where the first aid kit is. You don't know, but you know where the break room is. And you know where there's where there's food there. Sugar, I said, What's the world's oldest antibiotic? And they're looking at me crazy, I said. They said, Well, why would they need antibiotics? Back in the day, I I said, You know, they got cuts and infections. I said, Would The Egyptian Jews is not antibiotic? And they're just looking. I said, Honey, Honey is the world's also saying about it, but you know, as safety people, we want to get him intrigued. You know, because it happens all the time. People panic. Where is that first aid kit? It was in a box. It got moved. What can I use is a backup, and that's what safety people need. They don't need to know CSP. You know, if you're getting ready to get out of the field and move up, then go for that. But just remember, at least every year you need to downgrade yourself. Go out the field. Spend a couple of weeks out there because those programs that you're imagining are managing and, you know, having impact on things may have changed. You know, construction sites change minute by minute, and that's where you need to focus on. Is the people out there not management, not the budget. Unless that that is your absolute, you know, job in your necessity,

 

[00:30:48] JR Kitchens: your job. That's first thing I do. First thing I do when I get to a job is well, I meet the cook E, meet the cook. I meet the management manager guy and I go, Hi, I'm this and I'm here to work. So have a good day catching lunch and I go out immediately and go all the work. All the work centers do a walk through meet everybody, tell him what I'm there for and that I will be getting in the way and because that's the first thing they tell you. Yeah, that's fine, but just don't get in the way. I'm gonna get in your way. Like you said, I'll drag you to the curb, man. You know what I mean? If you if you attempt to If you attempt to tell me that that's not my business, my business is to make sure you're safe. You on the way to find out if you're safe, is to know your job inside and out. Yeah, and And once I know that, then I'll know you and I won't buy. You know more unless you do something wrong, and then I'm gonna set you down and explain to you why I'm chewing your ass and and but that that's not what it's all about. What it's all about is getting to know your workers and and, like you say, uh, no. Where your stuff is, No way your fire standards are nowhere. Your s C B s, are you? No, no. No way. Your O b a s R No, no, we're all your stuff is. So when When the shit does hit the fan, you know, you got to know, like like when you're walking around, you just eyeball stuff. Eyeball your exits. Uh, eyeball your your exit signs. If they're the wrong color if they're in the wrong place, You got an exit sign in a dead end. What the hell is wrong with you? So yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. 100% you've got to know. Look around, you know, and and find your key points. You don't have to know it all the time. When you walk in the building, look around and then go talk to your people. And And it's not about quizzing your employees. It's about knowing what they know. If you don't know what they know, then well, it's like driving around with your windshield painted black. You know which, which I do all the time. Just make sure that I know what I'm doing.

 

[00:32:53] Allen Woffard: Yeah. And guys, when you know where j. R. And I were talking about this too. When you're training, you know, this drives me nuts. Stop consistently training in a classroom environment. Um, you know, if you look at my site, my personal site or just Facebook post when I'm teaching first aid and CPR, it's on the gravel. It's out in the field. It's under conditions were right pads for this. I'm not going to be able to do this because when it comes

 

[00:33:22] JR Kitchens: down, lighting is wrong

 

[00:33:23] Allen Woffard: when it comes down to it. If your training is not in the real world situation and it's not under the real conditions, it's gonna fall apart. Winship does go south. You know they'll remember basics. But there,

 

[00:33:37] JR Kitchens: right, exactly on. But I believe that you Yes, sir. A good point. Train them in the dirt, train them in the in, the in a puddle of water. That's what's gonna happen when you're out there in this raining like crazy. And you're trying to revive this person, and I agree with that. I'm glad you brought that up because I was on a job site where they have ah boat recovery on, uh, in the slope. And they're like, Well, we were gonna go out and train today, but but the waves were too high. Is bad is bad, bad weather. And so I'm gonna guarantee you this nine times out of 10. That's the way it's gonna be when the shit hits the fan. It's gonna be that away. So learn how to deal with it. Get out there and drive those boats in bad weather. See if you can sustain. Ah, static point. See if you can do that with that boat. If you can't, then you got to come up with a plan B, come up with a plan c, come up with a contingency plan. I'm glad you mentioned that, Alan. You're pretty good without having any acronyms behind your name. Uh, man, Yeah, but I know you know your stuff, man. And I mean, uh, uh, being a creator, like you are in the visionary. A lot of safety people aren't like that. You know, a lot of management. It goes against you. Time I'll drag you to the curb. What was that? You said I'll drag you to the doorman units to the

 

[00:35:01] Allen Woffard: door. Because if if you're doing something the harm one of the people, I'm responsible for your shit clear their their area, I guarantee

 

[00:35:09] JR Kitchens: you gotta get get your problems out of the way. So you get to the root cause I e

 

[00:35:14] Allen Woffard: anybody that's had their ass drug to the door. You know, you're if you have done your shit like you're supposed to, the

 

[00:35:21] JR Kitchens: prime wouldn't happen. Then I've run the doorman. I have run to the door. Yeah, and that's that's so so true That, uh, that is so true. Man. You just gotta You gotta Dealing with management is the hardest thing about safety ever is dealing with management dealing with that. I hate to say this because I'm a good old boy, but a good old boy routine. I don't mean toe be egotistical about that, but but I'm a layman. I mean, a management manager asked me that once your field man aren't you? I go, Yeah, I can work in the office. I could do that. But I'd like to get on the field and know what's going on because, you know, management. I've had management tell me we could make a half a penny screw safety. They used more Use more of adjective than than that. But But, uh, and I went really on, and I said, Read the article, Read the article. You'll see. You'll know this is what OSHA says you have to do, and there's a reason for that. The reason they tell you that is because you're putting lives on the line. If you don't have the proper wash station if you don't have a phone. Uh, centered in the battery station, you know, so somebody could Well, there's one in the office. Okay, let me blindfold you spin you around a couple of times, yell at you in your ear and then tell you to run for the phone. Yeah, I guarantee you're not gonna make it. You're gonna fall over some a palette. Whatever. It's in your way. You're not going to do that ventilation system, not having the ventilation. Read the article. Just matter of fact, just sit down and and think about what you're doing to these people, right? In any situation. I don't care what it is, whether it's, uh, using CO two, whatever it might be. You know, management. Screw you over every time. You know what I'm saying? Well, you know, you just mentioned it. Yeah. So anyway, that's that's a good point. Safety people that are listening if you can't deal with management because they're just not into safety, it's more of a Nikon than than anything else than, uh, you need toe. Have a meeting with the CEO Seo, what's going on. And I guarantee you, if they're from the old school, they'll say, Okay, let's have a meeting. Let's all get together with your management and explain the situation to him and tell him about the numbers. Here's what You're gonna lose money. You're gonna lose that. I'll tell you what, they'll they'll pay attention. I guarantee you that. So you're gonna lose money. You're gonna lose the least anywhere from $600,000 a year. If you don't take care of your accidents before they happen, it become proactive and not reactive. I see that time and time again, but that's the way I feel. And I'm passionate about that. But as you are, Alan Safety uh, A B C D E F g.

 

[00:38:16] Allen Woffard: I must be venting. It must be that time a week.

 

[00:38:19] JR Kitchens: I think we're both feeling a little bit there. In Havana, Anybody asked me about safety and I go. It's not a joke. It's not. It's not just a practice. It's a way of life. You gotta live it not only at work, but at home. You know, stay away from the wife when she's mad. Safety tip right there

 

[00:38:34] Allen Woffard: for you. Yeah, E. No. People are gonna say Yeah, well, you know, he's just venting because he's not this. And so I know I'm venting guys because you're wasting opportunities. Do great things, is worrying about your next step instead of where you're standing.

 

[00:38:50] JR Kitchens: So when you when you get somebody a worker that comes to you and tells you, man, I got hurt and you went to the doctor and you told me to take care of me. I've never had that happen before. You tell five people five people until 25 people. 25 people.

 

[00:39:08] Allen Woffard: Major, I think we launched your brother.

 

[00:39:10] JR Kitchens: Oh, really? I'm right here.

 

[00:39:11] Allen Woffard: Yeah, just faded the black. What?

 

[00:39:15] JR Kitchens: I'm here. I'm right here. I'm talking to you. Oh, hey. Well, brother talking to you, man, we could

 

[00:39:22] Allen Woffard: go on for hours, but unfortunately, I've got to do a state covert form. That's well, I'm still here under observation, you know, being non sick. I really don't understand it. So I'm gonna have toe jump up. But I do want to just thank you for getting on your again to help me Just help others understand. You know, we started again. JR Knight started this, not toe. Really? Do anything. Uh, not to be a world famous. We can't help it. That that's gonna happen. Um, you know, thanks. Toe Betty helping us eso that we've got the softer side. Um, you know, But our intention just to start with safety at the bottom, you know, with the hands on the tools and then work our way up. And if you're good safety, stay into it. If you suck, get your ass into a trade school, learn a trade, go back out and rep those guys. You know, when you get people asking for help, whether it's Facebook linked in support one another, you know, because they're they're the ones that's going to back you up. We hope one day it's not doggy dog. It's a pack. We're a pack. And we're prevent, you know, protecting the rest of the herd.

 

[00:40:36] JR Kitchens: Can you hear me? I can. Oh, yeah. So I agree with you 100%

 

[00:40:41] Allen Woffard: be your brother's keeper. Don't be a dick head, because we will call yelled. I promise you

 

[00:40:46] JR Kitchens: there's an acronym to put behind your name if you you are one. But you know, like JR Kitchens D h certified. That's it. Thanks, man. I appreciate it, buddy. I love you too,

 

[00:41:00] Allen Woffard: man. for those. Listen, we appreciate your time and any time you want to be on the show and truly would say what's on your mind, What, what you need help with and, you know, and asking people. I mean, we're the ones go to If you wanna know about what's the proper dress attire for, you know, going to a convention or you know how those could benefits. You talk to some of the others. There are some benefits, but you know, at the end of they say, What did I do for safety now? And we love you and we appreciate your time, but Alright, brother,

 

[00:41:34] JR Kitchens: Brought to you by Safety FM

 

[00:41:35] spk_2: uh, the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. It should not be utilized in the real world as the only solution available as they are based only on very limited and dated open source information. Assumptions made within this analysis are not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast, maybe reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, electronic recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast