Join us as we discuss how his time in Vietnam changed him as a person, both professionally and personally. We’ll delve into the generosity he encountered while there and how that time— plus a sneaky deal he snared on a share house— led him to property, explore his temporary career where he broke down the cost of university per minute, and so much more!

Timestamps:
04:31 | The Lie of The Land
06:44 | One Sleep? That’ll Be $82.57, Please
08:03 | The Student Becomes the Master
11:08 | Learning Valuable Lessons in Vietnam
16:38 | Reverse Culture Shock
19:44 | Do You Need a House? Just a Sec, I’ll Build You One
23:01 | A Sneaky Discount
26:21 | Business is All About Relationships

Resources and Links:

Transcript:
Darren Flynn:

[00:22:22] I moved around a lot. And I just wanted somewhere to call my own, somewhere to hang up the painting or paint a wall or just do something. So really, my primary driver for property was just as a home. 

 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we’re speaking with chartered civil engineer Darren Flynn. We hear about his international travels and how they shaped him as a person and an investor, the unusual approach he took to lecturing at university, the language he found himself fluent in, and so much more!

 

 

Flynn shares his professional background and gives an overview of the countries he found himself working in.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:00:34] I'm Darren Flynn, I'm a chartered civil engineer. I've been working in infrastructure and development for over 20 years. My background comes from pipes, pumps and concrete. Usually large water infrastructure— that's where I cut my teeth, in councils, with the water authorities, and large design and construction contracts. That led me into development and investment, which, over the years, I've grown more knowledge and been able to apply that into my personal life, as well as my professional life. 

[00:01:19] Really, a lot of the fundamentals, I believe in investment, engineering, and life. You pick things up along the way that put you in good stead for the future. And as long as you learn lessons on the way, you seem to come up with things that you've had problems with before and you've got the answer, because you've already been there, done that. I've lived overseas, I've lived in Vietnam for four years I lived in Canada, working in both those countries. I feel like I've had some amazing experiences there which have changed me overall.

Now that he’s well and truly settled back in Australia, he describes a typical day in his working life.

Darren Flynn:  

[00:02:18] This morning, I was up at 5am doing some work. And then I actually travelled to the Hawkesbury. I have a friend who's also a client— their property and eight of their neighbors' properties have been flooding due to a trap low area. So I put the engineer head on, I went out there, I had a look at how to fix the short term issue, which is how to get rid of all the water. You can imagine eight to 10 swimming pools of water trapped in a low lying area. So I've literally just been to do that and work out both short term and long term solutions, and package up a position to the authorities and council to try and find and navigate a way out.

[00:03:06] I have this podcast... after this, I've got a client meeting for a 1200 lot subdivision. And then I've got to hightail it home. And then I've got a few meetings this afternoon and some work I've got to get done. My day to day changes. I work from home some days. I've got three young kids. So there's time set aside so my wife and family can get away and do things they need to. 

  

[00:03:32] There's also other days when I'm in the city, travelling out west, out in Western Sydney, Northern Sydney, Southern Sydney, visiting sites they'll do due diligence on or construction. So my days usually are pretty jam packed full of meetings, tasks, travel, site visits. I usually try and build my calendar around three weeks out. Things are constantly changing and constantly moving day-to-day. But it gives me a lot of variety and lets me have those touch points where I feel I can add the most value.

Taking a step back, we learn about Flynn’s childhood, including his unusual household pet!

Darren Flynn:   

[00:04:31] I was born in Western Sydney and grew up in Western Sydney. I know the lie of the land out there quite well. I moved to Brisbane and back and forth a few times between Western Sydney and Western Brisbane, and then predominantly thereafter in the Lower North Shore [of Sydney] and then I moved down to the Southern Highlands for high school, so I had country life. My dad got a donkey for his birthday, so we decided to move to the country so that we could have a little party farm. 

 

[00:05:09] And then thereafter, I moved out of home when I was 18, living around Sydney in different apartments and share houses over the time. And on reflection, seeing a lot of those get redeveloped. And you're thinking, 'If only I was buying when I was 18, and not renting'. Definitely a reflection point. And then moving around within Sydney. As I said, I lived in Canada, I was a snowboard instructor there and lived there for some time. 

[00:05:49] And then I did a long stint in Vietnam, with AusAid as an Australian Youth Ambassador for development, which is a programme run by the Australian Government for 18 to 30 year olds, for volunteer or paid volunteer places throughout the Asia Pacific. And then as a full time employee, working on the Three Delta Towns project, which is a water supply and sanitation project in the Mekong Delta. And then moved back home [I] got into property, and had a family and continued my career until where I am now.

Tyrone Shum:  

He takes us through his years at university, describing the interesting gap year he took and how he calculated the cost of sleep.

Darren Flynn:  

[00:06:44] When I moved to Sydney in those formative years, I did a Bachelor of Civil Environmental Engineering and a Diploma of Engineering Practice. That was a five year degree with a year of work experience, which three of those years, I worked. I started my first job, I was a dish pig in a cafe, cleaning dishes. Then moved to running coffees, then learning how to run the coffee machine. And then went from there to bartending, retail. Before I moved to Canada, I was working four jobs, to save up money so I could go away. 

 

[00:07:24] I was at uni and decided to take a gap year halfway through, which was one of the best things I think I ever did. I think it let me learn the value of money more. I remember that I'd come back after a year away, paying my way. And someone fell asleep in a lecture. And when they woke up, I promptly told them that they'd currently lost $82.57 because that was a pro rata relationship between how much it costs them for that semester, per minute, and how long their sleep lasted during the lecture. 

  

[00:08:03] So I was very cognizant of how much things cost, even if it was HECS or otherwise. And it was that year away that made me... I always valued money, but then I really started breaking things down and wanted to learn. Whereas I think before I wasn't too sure where I wanted to go. In any case, that put me in good stead. And then realising there was a life after hospitality, I was invited to be a tutor for an engineering subject, which then turned into marking and tutoring, and then lecturing. So I'd lecture [300] to 500 students every week, for a subject. I did that for three years, 

[00:08:50] I really enjoyed lecturing at uni, it was a valuable experience. I got to learn a lot about myself, but not only the students and what they wanted to learn. The subject was very broad, it was for all engineering students. And it gave me the ability not just to undertake public speaking and be confident, but to understand the pinch points of how people wanted to learn. 

[00:09:16] I do remember just when online was coming in, as I was leaving uni. And growing up in a world without computers really in your face, I was very interested in computers. But there was one lecture when I started and I said, 'All of all these slides will be online', and half the room proceeded to get up and leave. And then I said, 'But you do realise that none of this information in the slides will actually be in the exam. What I say in my spoken word and what I say verbally will be'. And everyone promptly came back inside. And that's how I run my lectures. The slides were just there just so someone could read but it was the content that was delivered in the lecture that got people interested. And I thought we'd at least make them stay and learn themselves, not just getting them wanting to learn, rather than just picking up a piece of paper and what's written on it.

Tyrone Shum:  

He leads us on his travelling journey that took him to Canada and Vietnam, and reveals what it taught him about work and about life.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:10:44] Canada was really just a gap year. I started, I was lucky to get a job at Whistler Kids, and then teaching kids how to snowboard. That was probably a bit more of a fun, young experience, travelling overseas. And I used to snowboard to work. That was amazing. And it was just more of a gap year. 

 

[00:11:08] Vietnam changed me dramatically as a person. That experience... I was living in a small town, six hours south of Saigon or Ho Chi Minh City. I had a driver, a car, I worked seven days a week, I worked 70 [to] 80 hours a week. The town I was working in was called Bạc Liêu. It's a town of about 150,000 people with very poor water supply and sanitation. I built maybe $30 million worth of infrastructure working under an amazing mentor, a very technical engineering manager, which I was very fortunate to have come into my life. It taught me a lot, technically, and in life. 

 

[00:11:58] I also was exposed to property. Because a lot of the works that we were undertaking paved the way for development work. The housing estates were called, in Vietnamese, literally 'New Estate', or 'New Area'. They'd call it New Area One, New Area Two, New Area Three. And we would remove some areas of rice paddies, put in a water treatment plan or some aquifers to get the water supply, sort out the drainage. We built an eight hectare lake, which was a flushing lake that would flush the stormwater drainage. All the sewage in Vietnam just goes to the drain and then to the river. So we built this big lake. 

[00:12:48] And then a housing estate, of course, popped up next to the lake. And what we built became the new part of the town. So that put me in good stead to understand not just the engineering, but the development side. But then there was the micro activities. So they set up a revolving microcredit system for septic tanks, so that people could [borrow] money to build their own septic tank, and then repay the money over some time. So we had a septic tank scheme. There [were] small micro health improvements like laneways, drainage, even some small houses. 

[00:13:27] I did attempt to set up my own NGO and a fundraising scheme to try and build small houses for people less fortunate. Unfortunately, that didn't happen after multiple attempts for too many different reasons I won't go into. But I then just set up a small thing on the side, we'd give away a tonne of rice every week. And that was just throughout the team. There's so much poverty in the towns. But so many people... the Vietnamese are lovely people. They're amazing people. They'd do anything for you. And I really found I was so well supported. I can talk for hours about Vietnam in general, and its history, but openly, the people were so lovely, and to be able to go and do something for this town and improve things that a lot of people take for granted— having public toilets, having soap in schools, people understanding to wash their hands, basic sanitation. 

[00:14:39] One of the main ones was fish pond toilets, where people would just set up a bamboo toilet over a fish pond or a small dam. And then go to the bathroom in that pond, people would also fish in that pond. There's a microorganism that lives inside fish that can kill you. There [were] multiple deaths. And it was really something that at the forefront was difficult to change people's minds and drive change. But I believe that we did that. 

[00:15:16] And we left, and there's some projects there, obviously that [are] still going. There's still people that don't have toilets in their home. And to see people after they've built their toilet, and you go have a look in that home, the bathroom was the most immaculate, clean place you would ever see. Because they were so proud that their home had the toilet. And just to see that, and to see the look in their eyes and how proud they were, that was life changing. 

 

[00:15:48] And learning Vietnamese... at one point, I was quite fluent in Vietnamese. I ditched my translators and just decided to go it myself because they weren't saying what I wanted to say. So that was always fun! I've never really been good at languages. So that was interesting. And I formed some great relationships there and [have] been back many times, and have some small things running over there that are more just hobbies rather than— I won't call them investments at all— but more things that can give you more joy than some other things can.

 

Coming up after the break, we learn about Flynn’s transition from Vietnamese back to Australian life, in a time that was stressful for everyone...

 

[00:16:48] My manager asked, 'Would you be interested to go to Vietnam?' I had nothing to lose, so I decided to go. Obviously, as I'd just got[ten] back to Australia, the GFC had pretty much hit. 

 

He shares more on the fantastic and generous people he met on his travels...

 

[00:20:15] His family are so opportunistic. They saw me in town, I was in a small hotel. He put me in his house, mentioned that 'Oh, would you be interested to rent a nice house?' And I said, 'Yeah, sure, I'm happy to do that'. 

 

He reveals a story from when he was renting that got the investment gears in his head turning.

[00:23:37] And when I worked out how much the total rent was, I'd said to this guy, 'Hey, hold on a minute. If you're paying this, and I'm paying that, and that room's this and those other rooms are probably that, that means that you're pretty much rent free'. 

 

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

 

 

Tyrone Shum: 

Delving deeper into Flynn’s time in Vietnam, he explains when he was there and how culture shock didn’t hit until he got home.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:16:38] This was 2005 to 2009. I was working on a large water infrastructure project. And my manager asked, 'Would you be interested to go to Vietnam?' I had nothing to lose, so I decided to go. Obviously, as I'd just got[ten] back to Australia, the GFC had pretty much hit. Being in Vietnam and after my volunteering programme had shifted into a paid position, obviously working overseas, with tax implications, not having to pay super, there [were] obviously a lot of other things I was trying to do over there. It did put me in a good position. The GFC I think he hit everyone in different ways. I was fortunate, I moved quite quickly in what I was doing at the time, and didn't get impacted as bad[ly] as others. But the timing was very formative. Not just professionally, but definitely personally. I came back to find that reverse culture shock was a real thing.

Tyrone Shum:   

With such different living conditions in Vietnam, did he find that once he came home, everything seemed easy in comparison?

Darren Flynn:  

[00:18:52] It does put things into perspective. Even things as simple as sharing food at the dinner table. I found when I came back, I couldn't understand why people weren't sharing food. Seeing a bus for the first time. That made me go 'Wow, that's right, there's buses, I forgot about those clean gas or electrical buses'. It definitely puts things into perspective. And it does make you realise as a country in Australia, how lucky we are on a lot of fronts. Particularly with things like water supply and sanitation. And yes, it does make you listen to stories and people whinging or complaining about X, Y and Z and you just start thinking 'Wow, if you realised how lucky you had it...'

[00:19:44] The entrepreneurial spirit of the Vietnamese... my driver, I called him the Honda Doctor. That was his name for mechanic. And he used to buy and sell old motorbikes. So to do them up and then and sell them on for profit. And we did that for quite some time together. We shared the spoils, and I got to learn a bit about motorbikes, which was great. You see a guy who... his family are so opportunistic. They saw me in town, I was in a small hotel. He put me in his house, mentioned that 'Oh, would you be interested to rent a nice house?' And I said, 'Yeah, sure, I'm happy to do that'. And his family went to the bank, borrowed the money, built me a house, and then rented it to me. And in the time that I'd spent there they'd paid it off. 

[00:20:42] So you can see that entrepreneurial nature and learn from that. Just being opportunistic with what you can see in front of you. And the other thing I learnt over there is that you just can't expect from others what you expect from yourself. And I learnt that early on. It's something that I don't think a lot of people realise and something that you've got to take on early or acknowledge.

Tyrone Shum:  

Flynn shares how he got into property development in the late 2000s after returning from his overseas travels.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:21:38] Post-GFC was a great time to buy. There [were] many incentives from the government— first time buyers, stamp duty was waived, mortgage insurance was waived if you had more of a deposit, which I think is still the case, maybe not depending on what your loan structure looks like. And it was a good time to get into the market. I wish I'd done more at the time. But I believe I did enough to get into a position where I am now. Or at least my family.

 

[00:22:22] I moved around a lot. And I just wanted somewhere to call my own, somewhere to hang up the painting or paint a wall or just do something. So really, my primary driver for property was just as a home. I had a housemate, I'd always been savvy with housemates and different rent structures. I lived in a house before I went overseas that was demolished. It was a very nice, tidy parcel that a developer had bought. 

[00:23:01] I'll digress, I'll talk to before I went to Vietnam, because it probably impacts on how I viewed property afterwards. But it was a five bedroom house. And I'd moved from the front bedroom, which was $140 a week, to the back bedroom, which was $35 a week. It leaked. And I remember asking the guy that ran the house, because I was on AusStudy, I didn't come from much money. I had to get the rental statement to be able to get my AusStudy and rental allowance. And when I worked out how much the total rent was, I'd said to this guy, 'Hey, hold on a minute. If you're paying this, and I'm paying that, and that room's this and those other rooms are probably that, that means that you're pretty much rent free'. And he went 'Shh! Don't tell anyone, what we'll do is we'll restructure this, and we'll get people in, and I'll give you a discount to $20 a week'. 

  

[00:24:00] So I'd learnt early that maybe it's a hustle. And I'm not saying that that was the right thing to do by any means. But at the end of day, the rents were fair. And he had a way that structured the deal that he got maybe something out of it and I'd sort of tapped into that. And I also got something out of it. So I had a housemate after Vietnam, met my beautiful wife, which then she'd come to move with us. And I said, 'Well, you know, you got to pay rent', and then realised that that was a sublease. Because she was paying rent, but there [were] obviously things around [the] relationship and whatnot. And I had a good accountant at the time. 

[00:24:43] And then I realised that there [were] certain write offs and tax benefits to doing that. And that started me going, 'Okay, hold on a minute, I need to take a step back and think about not just managing money in investments, whatever they might be, but how I can benefit myself with my current investment property or my current property and how I can offset costs for that'. Whether or not it's a new TV or a new kitchen, or whatever other works we did on that particular property.

Moving from his renting days to his property journey, Flynn delves into the story of his first investment.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:26:21] The first investment really was... I was just looking around, thinking that I probably needed some more property. Wasn't really too sure and had a look at a few different places. I always say that, and I talked about being opportunistic, because you see something, you like it, it stacks up, and you go, 'I've got to do this, this is the one, this is the one'. And then you start seeing certain signs, or you realise that potentially if it's—and in this case it was through an agent— but there wasn't much interest. And other properties where you could see that maybe you're bidding with someone else, and you could just start to get these signs or openly didn't like the agent, or they rubbed you the wrong way, even though something looked so great about this deal, or what was in front of you. 

[00:27:26] And the investment that I'm talking about, the way it played out was more around understanding that a certain area was going to be rezoned. Knowing that information, having that knowledge that maybe, obviously, the owner didn't know about, otherwise they wouldn't have sold. And then by virtue of luck, but also who you know, there was a connection through someone I knew that knew the agent very well, that then sort of fostered the ability to come in more directly with an offer. And within three hours I had had a 66W [certificate] and a cheque ready to go and snatched up an absolute bargain. It all happened very quickly. We'd been looking for some time, nothing. There [were] a few things and there [were] obviously a lot of different competing interests and competing deals. But this one just seemed to happen very quickly. And very fortunately, we obviously signed it and got the deal done.

Tyrone Shum:   

As he had been looking around for a while, what was it that drew him to this particular property?

Darren Flynn:   

[00:29:01] I always think this isn't a case of going, 'I'm going to go spend X dollars on this big home that's already there'. Obviously always looking for uplift, not just in value, but whether it's rental return or otherwise, anything that's likely to be rezoned or have any uplift potential— whether it's a strata subdivision, dual occupancy, or whether it's a granny flat or anything. We were looking in that space to find something that could be either further subdivided or have some uplift into sales and townhouses or whatnot. 

[00:29:48] The area that I work in primarily is land subdivision. I do a lot of due diligence and you see and, you know, obviously you go off you, if you had more money, you'd go and do something out west or go to a subdivision out there. That's always been something that even when I worked out in the northwest growth centre early in the early 2000s, there were 10 hectare parcels going for a million dollars. You can't believe that sort of dollar value now, it's just so long ago and who would have known that the foresight and all that all that stuff. 

[00:30:24] But the thing that took us to the deal was really about knowing that this area was being rezoned. It's in the North Shore in Sydney. It wasn't gazetted, it was just like a draft plan. And it was one of those ‘If anything came up in this area that was less than what future upsell value would be, we'll just go for it’ [scenarios]. We'll go quickly. And something came up, popped up in the search. And we jumped on it as quickly as we could.

Darren Flynn’s story continues in the next episode of Property Investory. He divulges on a property he bought that has scared other buyers away...

 

[00:04:48] By virtue of me having a background in engineering, I'm just fortunate that I could look at that and go, 'Oh, no, this won't be a problem. Let's proceed'. 

 

He delves into how much family means to him...

 

[00:11:54] It's all about legacy. Legacy is something I never really comprehended until my father died. And it was when I really understood the true meaning of legacy. 

He shares the advice he’s been given over time and what advice he would give to younger people today.

[00:22:28] I won't say I was not frugal when I was young– I definitely was because I didn't have enough money not to be— but if you really can look at your fundamentals in life, take a step back from those.

 

And that’s next time on Property Investory.