Safety FM with Jay Allen
Ray, Rob, and Justin Fisher
February 18, 2020
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speaks with The Fishers about working together, separating family from work and the technology the Fishers created.
I think this show is brought to you by safety is streaming. Now on safety FM, don't life way are broadcasting live from the safety focus moment studios in Orlando, Florida This is the jail in show. This is the show that you claim that you want to hear. So I always love that I get the opportunity to interview some very interesting people that are out there in this week. We're going to speak to some people that are out there in the safety world. Now, the interesting portion here is this part right here.  When I'm talking right now, we're in Orlando, Florida, having the conversation, but I'm gonna pull your recording for you. That I did. Why was in Concord, North Carolina, right on the outskirts of Charlotte. And you're probably sitting there going Why are you planning of recording for me? That's okay. I appreciate you asking. I really do. I was actually out at Fisher Improvement Technologies and I got to sit down with Justin Fisher, Ray Fisher in Rob Fisher, and I sat down and I want to have a conversation with them related Teoh how everything started with them actually starting off a company and with them all being related, how does the relationships work there?  I also want to talk about a technology that they use. That's called advanced error reduction in organizations, also known as Arrow. So enjoy that interview here today on the J. Allen Show. The more we get into your head Safety FN. I'm here at Fisher Improvement Technologies, and I am with the three fissures that are currently in the building. Have re over here on my left hand side, Justin almost directly in front of me and Rob Fisher. Welcome to the show. Well, welcome to the arrow hp dot com Studios here and Concord, North Carolina.  Thanks, J. Thank you, J. What? For being here. Well, I appreciate you guys actually having me here, but I wanted to sit down with you because as we speak, as of today, I've actually done an interview with Rob on the air, and I've done an area with right on the air. But, Justin, we have not had the privilege of doing so. Of course I'm gonna torture you a little bit once we actually get to it. But I wanted to have a conversation because I kind of got a little bit of the back story of how you guys fell for arrow and fell in love once again and reignited your brother ship or your brotherhood.  Better saying, but I wanted have the conversation on. As you guys start to explain the relationship once again because of the falling out that occurred. How have things worked up to this point? How have things been so far? Regards now having the interaction and working together and then, of course, bringing Justin into the mix to where we want to take it first. Well, um, you know, I think you hear a lot and read about how difficult family businesses are. And, um, I think that that you really have toe you really have to commit to that being what you want.  In our case, it was almost less about the fact that people were just family and more about the fact that we had family that had talents and capabilities that the business that we were trying to expand could use. Um, you know, when when Ray and I first started coming back together as brothers, that happened before, um, before he got invited into the business In fact, he probably came into the business several years later. Then we could have used him. Um, because as his brother, I wasn't going to say, Hey, why don't you quit your job and come to work for me and is my brother He wasn't going to say, uh, I sure would like to come to work for you even though he was using our technology very successfully.  You know, out in his professional life, um, so you know, you you have to balance that understanding of of work and family in a small business. There's not a lot of separation. I mean, you know, my business partner in another life, Lewis Sr. And I talk about this all the time is that in our brains, and my wife says, this is Well, it's not like your brain ever shuts down on the business, because it's the way our family makes its livelihood. So the fact that something may pop into your head and we're a family gathering and it pops out of your mouth has been something that we've accepted for a long time.  But it's something that other people need to get used to. And right Ray was the same way, you know, Coming in. Yeah. I don't think he ever thought that we'd ask him to move to North Carolina because he was living happily in Florida. But I think that one of the very first things that in our business, we did ask those people who haven't We are family members was to ask Ray and Jodie Teoh, move here. This is where the business is Run and ask Justin that if you really want to be part of the business and part of the future, this is where the business and future is gonna run.  So what? I think one of the very first things that we did that was tough for a family business was to ask people to uproot for the for the betterment and the and the potential growth of the business. And And we struggled over it and thought of thought long and hard over it before we did that. And then eventually, when we we really wanted them. And they really wanted us than we broach that, Yeah. To add to that it for for my wife, Jodi and I it was a difficult decision to make.  I mean, We had lived in the same house for 15 years in Orlando. We had a great group of friends that were more like family than anything we had down there because we were the only ones that live down there. I mean, we came up on holidays and saw Rob and the rest of the family and Tracy and Justin and Briana and we got the we did our family get togethers. We never envisioned ourselves moving, moving away from Florida. We loved living there, but it was a very difficult decision and what I do have to do is give Robin Tracy a lot of credit because when they put that proposal out to make the move, it was it was our decision whether to do it or not to do it and it was a difficult decision to make.  It was the right decision to make, but they also gave us the time to make the decision. It wasn't Hey, this you got two weeks. We talked about it in February and they said Hey, we'd like it up there by June so we had plenty of time to make the decision. It became a little easier. Our daughter had just graduated college. She was living on her own. She had her own apartment and, uh, what was in the process of trying to get herself to live over in Japan as well, which we were helping her with.  But it was a difficult transition, but ultimately the absolute right, One further to what Rob said about separating the family and the business for me early on, that was difficult, because for a long time the brother relationship wasn't, wasn't there. And then when I got the brother relationship back, I really craved it. And then once the whole transition of family member slash employees started to transpose and and come to light, the brother relationship kind of slid to the back, and I had some difficulties at that. But we had some. Really.  We had what we call crucial conversations about it, and we talked about it and we talked it out. And in reality, what we kind of did thinking back to it was we used the technology that we talked about today Way went through a kind of a self in team awareness and a shared vision and values on what we wanted. That relationship to look like. Now I've Robin. I had a conversation the other day in his office. I'm at a point now where I'm OK with the way things are.  Number one. I'm starting to thrive in this organization, and I think that's been pretty evident over the last six or seven months of what I've been able to step up and do toe help move the organization to the next level. I think J Island Show. Enjoy some of your favorite host in the safety world. Enjoy Show by Sheldon Prima's Blame J. Hoffman, Jill James Mike brought Fisher taught Conklin and Jay Allen, and we're back with the fissures from arrow hp dot com Here on the jail in jail now, prior to you, moving here and accepting the job.  Was there any concerns at the time that the relationship between you and Robert go back to what it once was like? Was there any kind of fear to that level? No, I don't I don't think so, because we had we had rebuilt it pretty strongly, and we did try to get together a lot more. Um, as families and everybody, you know, everybody be included in that So just that I have to ask you, of course, for the listeners that might not know you are Rob son. And so I would imagine that you got to hear about this technology or this hopping for a long period of time going.  Okay, This is what my dad talks about. Do I really care? And they always seemed to be invited into the business. How did the transition work and how did it work for you? Uh, the transition was was pretty easy for me, Actually. Didn't know a whole lot about the hop space or human performance. All I knew was that my dad traveled a lot and worked somewhere in the quote unquote safety sphere. Um, I really didn't have any details. About what? Hopper, hp Waas. He really was a secret agent.  He just wasn't telling anyone. I thought that for quite a while, but no, I was that I was at a point in my life where, um it was easy for me to to leave the job that I was working for. At the time, I didn't have a significant other. So when he offered to have me moved to North Carolina and joined the team in 2013. I jumped at the opportunity and quickly realized how powerful the technology that he no, that he was speaking about was eso. I kind of just launched myself into it, started learning as much as I could.  And now, at this point, I'd say about his fluent as Rob or Ray or anybody else in the organization. Any of our consultants is with with our technologies, So and where were you actually located before you actually moved to North Carolina? I was from the smallest capital in the U S. Montpelier, Vermont. Totaling about. It was when I was there, 7300 people, one only capital with no McDonald, the only capital with no McDonalds. And while mark that down and I couldn't, I can kind of second that that there was never this kind of shows a little bit of of some of the family separation and business separation, because to me, if he wasn't interested in the core concepts of what I was doing, I wasn't gonna try and push it on him.  So for decades, I mean, I was content with if he was happy with me going out and doing whatever it was I did. And I was happy with him doing what he did. We just We just got along this father and son, but I knew that he had some. I knew he had some talents that we could probably use. And when it seemed like he was at a point where he could make some decisions, Um, I think bringing him in as both a very talented fresh face that really gave us some critical looks.  I mean, the fact that we have arrow advanced air reduction and organizations was kind of Justin's invention of the of our process. Do where do you where do Ugo, beyond human performance of, you know, human organisational performance? What's the next step? And he really became what I like to call a student of the game. So after 25 plus years, I now had to prove to somebody very close to me that has a very questioning attitude, a very hot detail response to things that what we were doing, how we did it, the technology and the science it was behind.  It was both sound and usable for somebody that wasn't, uh wasn't part of that quoting quote, safety space and and he really did latch on to that and he and even started producing some, uh, challenges of where this isn't being used that could really be used. That will probably shape the future of the company. Now, this goes to you just now. My question to you. How difficult was you for at first when you started inside of the company? Family businesses is worded that way for you to approach your father and say, Hey, I have this idea and not look at it from the whole son.  I call it the Powdered. But syndrome. You can normally give advice to somebody who's powdered your bite, because it becomes very difficult for the person. So how was that first referred to having to have that interaction In the beginning, it was very difficult because I was so far from outside the space, I had spent the majority of my, uh, my work time working in restaurants, managing restaurants and bars, managing retail locations, um, kind of working in that space. So I felt very much an outsider on I was immediately thrown into, um, I was put into other workshops.  That fit was running. So I was doing the human performance advocate classes and, um, working with the creation of colors and human performance right off of the bat. Um, I would almost say that's thrown to the wolves, right? Absolutely thrown to the wolves. So I was very unsure of when and where to kind of speak up. It was actually through the ECOWAS technology using personal intervention that allowed me to learn to hit my play button and actually speak up when I did have a thought and not just hold it inside.  Um, a lot of great things have come out of that. So as you're seeing this developing these feet in the these future technologies, actually, now that you guys are all three together, what are you seeing? Change wise. And anybody could enter this because now that you have the dynamic of the different things that you're strong at, Rob and you're strong and Justin until insane for you, right? What do you guys see? The dynamic Now he is. I'll tell you when I have walked into this building before.  If you wouldn't have told me that Justin was your kid, I would have never known cause you've never You've never made a reference to it for it, for him to be treated differently. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean, and he refers to you as when Justin is here. He refers to you as Rob, so there is not that confusion. And I'll tell you, and having conversations with other people and other organizations, that's normally not the case. I was really impressed on how you decided to do it that way, and now that you know nothing against the family, But I decided that it was a different approach and more interesting approach.  Way made that distinction very early on that when when we're in work mode, you know, my dad is Rob, um and it's been pretty easy to keep that. And then we also know when we're talking business. Even if we had a family engagement, if I refer to him as Rob, he knows we're talking business right then and there and then, you know, after the business talk is over, he's dad again. Yorker eso It fluctuates pretty easily. Yeah, and so how does it work for Uncle Ray over here?  I've always just been raising has kind of been a, uh uh, relationship with Justin that Justin was actually really close with with our daughter as well they have. They have a very good relationship. So Justin, to me was has always been an extension of my family, of course, but it's always it's always just a been array and Justin Thing way refer to each other. Is brother in passing, so yeah. Yeah. So raise kind of the Funchal fun, uncle and I thought he meant something else. But I won't go there.  And like Justin said, Well, what a lot of people don't know is is our daughter Briana has been our logistics coordinator for 12 years. So from the very start of coordinating one or two people up to now, all of the different consultants in all the different logistics, Um, but like Justin said, we we turn the Rob and Justin and and son and dad on and off, and we've I think we've gotten pretty good at it, so sometimes we miss. But how does that work for you? Because I know Justin can turn around and say Dad and rob a year, you're his father.  So you only say Justin, regardless of how does how does that work for him? What is the trigger? That he knows that it's Rob speaking? And I Dad? Well, sometimes I think I I don't I don't know that I think a lot about it. But back toe, personal intervention, I try to say, Can we have a business discussion? So if we're with our families at that fair enough, I think that's what I what I try to do. Do you have a minute to have a business discussion?  I mean, Christmas Eve, we were all sitting around. We're thinking about something, and I just happen to think of something. I turned it Justin and said, Hey, can we have a quick bit sure way talk for one minute and then boom back back into Christmas Eve? Um, I think I think there's some of the easier things to deal with in a family business environment. Hard things were winning. When it's hard, just being a family is harder. Um, I don't know how to really say it. The harder things are harder with family, so it's hard in a business.  But it's even harder when it's family J Island show. So you're bored with what you're listening to you and you think you need a little more because if you need a little more, I think I can help e everybody. Todd conquered re accident investigation, and along with my buddy J. Allen of Safety FM, we've done the unthinkable. And that is we put some of my books up on Audible. So if you gather information by listening to books on audio, you're in luck because three books are available right now.  And if you're interested, you can pick him up. No problem at all. Workplace fatalities, The New Five Principles of Human Performance and my very first book called Simple Revolutionary Acts, are all available for you to enjoy and ponder and argue, and Chuan and their work They're yours and they're on audible. Try mouth on. We're back with the fissures from arrow hp dot com here on the J. Allinger. So when you look at it, do you go back? And how the thought process than that? It's difficult sometimes to make family decisions related to the to the business or do you or does one factor into the other I mean in any of that you know it's great to be able to separate, but can you really separate 100% across the board?  Where Ugo Boom? No, I think it completely depends on the topic at hand or what's happening. There's always gonna be some kind of percentage lean one way or the other. I mean, I take it back to the discussion Robin I had in his office the other day, and it was it was talking about the separation of family and business, and the bottom line is where we are now. Anything that we do with our family is because of the business. So the business is what allows us to do the things that we do as a family, and we've grown as a family and as a business to kind of start to accept that as one, because they're not mutually exclusive anymore.  So let's let's do this, then let's take a deeper dive with the technology because you're using this technology for both relationships, for your work relationship and also for your family relationship. So tell me kind of the levels that you had to go through for the for the listeners, of course, at home to be able to understand the things that you had to implement for there to be the separation and for people to go. This is how the technology works, because, of course we talk about Arrow, but not everybody's familiar with it.  So if we could just kind of list out a couple of things here, I think I'll go first. Just because you know the component of Arrow, that one of the components of arrow that really makes it stand above his understanding of personality tendencies and not just how we communicate but how we see and manage risk and how different individuals, um, approach things differently and need to be approached differently related to those things, I think first, I had to be convinced that with all the different personality regimens out there, this was the one that I could see is a vision as being the foundation for how you put the individual personality tendencies into our task based system.  You know, every person, every task it in at every time is surrounded by people, programs, processes, work environments, organization equipment. But that individual will react to changes in that system based on their personality tendencies, and, um so the e colors. The equilibrium folks had so much information on that that I was trying to gather. How real is that information? So I started trying to use it almost immediately, and that was right about the time that personal intervention became a thing for three colors. So we started saying, Well, look of personal interventions that thing than, uh, how does that work?  Beyond just the personality Tennessee attributes, How could become a gateway tool? Then I think all of us had a role in Super Bowl 51 in Houston. I think that was one of your first Big Justin's first big forays into Let's dive into this a little bit deeper. Let's get immersed in tow. How the personality Tennessee attributes come into play, and he was very successful during the creation of the Super Bowl 51 volunteer system. 10,000 Super Bowl volunteers, all using and understanding their personality tendencies to make it a better Super Bowl experience for the people.  You want to talk about that a little bit, Um, I mean from for me, I When I was working around Super Bowl 51 I was mostly working with colors and education which is a nonprofit that works with schools and teaches Children as young as 78 years old. They re colors, helps them understand themselves and others. Um, and I absolutely love that program. It reduces bullying. Graduation rates are skyrocketing. Just watching. Getting able to get to know these kids was just mind blowing for me. If I would have had that technology when I was young, I can't even imagine where I'd be today.  Um, but it's it's wonderful if you guys have never heard of it. Please look up the colors and education Got a lot or yeah, yeah, but yeah, for the Super Bowl, I worked with a bunch of kids and we went to, ah, lot of lower income areas where they weren't necessarily able to have the big Super Bowl experience And give that to the community by holding big functions and parts. Um, and we think we visited four or five different parks around Houston, um, and celebrated with a bunch of people and had one a week for 14 weeks.  Yeah, that's how much prep work was done. 14 weeks ahead of time. Uh oh. We were there nine months ahead of time eso pregnancy. Let's say, yeah, you're to the Super Bowl. And the one a week for 14 weeks was to bring the Super Bowl experience that people in uh um less, less fortunate fortunate areas would probably never get to experience. We brought the Super Bowl experience to them, and, ah, the reason this ties there. It's important that this ties to the arrow system is because the say imagine the same foundation that somebody can use when they're 789 years old.  I watched a nine year old school, a CEO in personality tendencies, standing there talking about the brain and how different people, how doers, thinkers socializes and relate. Er's tend to see things differently. And the CEO of a major corporation was flabbergasted. And then we go out and we talked to this about people and will have senior leaders who alone think that's too complicated for our folks who will give him nine minutes with Sarah. Yeah, you know, we're gonna bring this little kid in, Let them have a speech. Yeah. Really?  Yeah. I mean that that's the the amazing thing about this technology Number one. There's no industry that it's not applicable in number two. There are no boundaries. The boundaries are the biases of the people that try to either knock it down and not not apply it. That that's been that's been probably one of the most amazing things that I've seen over my several years in our organization is the technology knows no boundaries in it, and it doesn't. It's not limited to any any single industry. It's it fits everywhere because that task based system that Rob spoke about doesn't matter what task you're doing.  You can. You can teach your 14 year old how to mow the yard using that task based system. You can have a conversation around that and with the personality tendencies, if that person is very distracted by other people, that's the conversation that you can have say, Look, you naturally pay attention to those people. You've gotta shut. You've gotta exercise that personal intervention and not pay attention to those other kids that are trying to draw your attention from across the street. And the key is we provide tools to help people do that.  So it was fascinating to watch people use their personal intervention wrist bands through the Super Bowl But it's also fascinating to watch kids use them and tell you how they use their pause and play button. You got to meet Justin. You got to meet Ah, lot of kids that have laws in place stories, right? Absolutely. And and we think that we think that's just kind of a gimmick. People think that. But the reality is the personal intervention piece of pause in play from a neurological perspective actually helps align the brain to whatever the action is you want to take.  So that's a framework of what we called the gateway tool to the advanced air reduction system. That then uses the task based system that then uses the essential leadership cycle that that we can. Ah, um, we can then help the organization really function better. And like Gray said, You know, we were pretty well known for our safety, especially fatality, serious, life altering injury prevention. Um, you know, we were pretty well known globally for that, But there's no reason that, uh, service of retail companies shouldn't be using this to help retain people to help create a better experience for their customers.  We like to say there's three things that you really need to think about number one. Somebody doesn't get hurt. Number two, something doesn't get broken. And number three, somebody ain't happy. And if you think about those three things, I struggle with what doesn't fall into one of those categories for any industry. I don't care with your municipality or a police department or emergency services. We're working with the folks down in Houston or ah, dentist or somebody at one of the major retailers. Those three things sent 10 to matter, and there may be 1/4 and 1/5 but I think they're fourth and fifth.  So it was always my goal to create something. And now we're kind of back to the family business thing. That was not just about creating a family business. Okay, family need to business. So here's what we'll do. But to create something that really makes it change in the way people approach, um, life and and how businesses run improving companies and lives to the creative application of technology. The J Island Show register for the 2020 Human and Organisational Performance Hop Summit today, 2020 Hop Summit will be held on 9 11 2020 at the Western Houston Memorial City in Houston, Texas.  It will be an unforgettable learning event dedicated to moving from principles to practice through sharing in discussion of human and organisational performance, implementation and deployment strategies. The 2020 Hop Summit will feature experts, thought leaders and safety and health professionals who have significant experience that blowing hop round table discussions and networking is experience will provide extraordinary opportunities to learn in the rare opportunity to connect and build relationships with others. Deployed Cop Industry 2020 Hop Summit will target safety and health professionals, workers and operational leaders at all stages of their hop journey from beginning to advance to register To learn more about this one of a kind event, go to you H O P died O R C H s e dot com That's h o P. Died O R C H s e dot com The more we get into your head safety FM and we're back with the fissures from arrow hp dot com here on the J. Allinger.  So let's talk about that for a moment because this is where I would like to expand a little bit of the conversation as well. When you talk about arrow, you talk about arrow as hop done right, and I can say that some of the other people don't like that. You word it that way, and that's perfectly fine. But it's also one of those things that when you start talking about the technology, you cover so many different aspects that I've been to other presentations and conferences that they don't seem to cover as much information.  So why did you decide to start calling it hop done right? What was the idea behind it? Being is your do a lot of things with intention? Well, it was Thanks. It's interesting because originally the the focus for us was never on the word right. It was on the word done. So is supposed to be hot. Done right. In other words, there are things you have to do as humans. We fall into a category where some of us like the who. Some of us like the what some of us like.  How some of us need the why does part that needs to be done is what I do with all this hop information that's out there. So it was hot done right and then what got shifted a little bit was This is hot done right? In other words, this is the only way hop should be done right has never really our intention. Our intention was to say that there are things that need to be done to integrate the concepts of human organisational performance in the day to day work in a way that you get sustainable, sustainable improvement.  That's what we're going for. We believe that it's right to do all of those things encapsulated and integrated into the incident. Analysis facilitated improvement teams the way you do written guidance. The way you assess your performance, the way you function is a leadership team. That's how you do hop, right? So all we were saying was that our technology integrates all the things that you need to do right to do. Hop well, way need to mark this section on the episode that way for the other people that like to listen and see what you're doing.  They can take a listen to that particular portion and what you intended behind. Well, I mean, you know, a it got a little bit out of control the first time it got out of control was when I went down to Australia and there were some people that didn't know who we were, so they didn't realize we had deployed 20 times in Australia successfully. But since we didn't market, we didn't talk about what we did. Those companies were successfully deploying what other people were calling some of the hot concepts, and they I guess they felt it was an infringement on what they were doing for hop and because they hadn't heard of us.  Apparently, we didn't exist. But the reality is, you know, we're now 40 countries in in 10 different languages, so we've got a bit of hot behind us. And we realized that human and organisational performance is just an expansion of the old human performance that is an expansion of human factors that is an expansion of quality and lean or whatever, do whatever ever it else it is, they're all They're all different versions of the same course science based product, product processes. Um, but for us, we kind of became known as the practical applications folks.  Okay, that's that's all good. How do you practically apply that across all that spectrum? In other words, How do you do it? Right. That's kind of where that came from. Yeah, I mean it. And it really is a holistic approach, because if you want that if you want those sustainable results, you have to have something that's going to be sustainable. If if all you go out and do a bunch of training and educating people great, that's one step. How do we then embed those concepts into the things were doing so that it becomes the way we do business or the way the organization does business?  That's what has to happen for that sustainability and resilience to come come to fruition. Well, let me ask a couple of strange questions here. And this is what I'm gonna ask you to pull out your crystal ball. What do you see being the next change coming about in the industry? What do you see? Coming up, Especially you kind of being out there quite a bit as of late. What are you seeing? Changes. And people are focusing on Well, one of the one of the more interesting things that I've that I've seen is from people that we've started to talk to Is a place called the center of Visual Expertise.  How do we teach people to see things differently? So now you take how you see things differently, or how to see things with some of their proprietary methodology that they teach. They teach Ah, a safety space workshop in an art museum. So they're using art to teach people how to see things more safely. And I attended one of their two day workshops and immediately saw some synergies in how we can integrate the arrow concepts into how to see things differently. How do we open our aperture and look at things differently?  So that's one thing that I've that I'm seeing. I actually spoke at the Cove conference and have had several people reach out to me after that conference saying, Man, I really liked how you integrated what you learned from them into your speech. Not only that, you talked about what other people talked about, and all I did was sit there and listen to the other speakers and put some of their stuff into my talk and did that kind of on the fly and got a really good response from the attendees.  So that center of visual expertise is something that I've seen of late. That is really gonna help expand people's vision for lack of a better term and see things differently. Now, of course, Justin, I'm gonna torture you with the same question. What do you What do you see? Especially now, you know that you've been in this for a little bit, and you've seen some of the changes over the last six year going onto your seven. Now, what are you seeing? That's gonna be the check to you.  What do you think the next change will be in the space? I don't know if change is really the right word. If I'm looking into a crystal ball and seeing the future, if I'm a NASCAR lottery numbers due at the end, so don't great. I really is arrow for me. Um, from everything that I've learned over the past seven years, the arrow technology really has almost all if not all, bases covered, um, in so many different areas. And so I really just want to see us as a company.  It's also a personal mission, uh, of improving companies in lives. So we asked ourselves, where can we improve companies and lives. Where can we apply this technology? So we think about the medical industry where there's upwards of 200,000 fatalities due to medical error each year. Absolutely. We want to start working with the arrow and medical um, service in retail. Um, being able to help organizations retain employees and having, ah, happier, more well adjusted workspace just by people understanding, uh, themselves understanding others better. Um, the list just goes on and on.  It can really be applied anywhere. So it's just being able to get out there and market effectively so that people know that we actually exist. So Robin and I have been asking kind of a similar question, but you've seen so many changes throughout the years that we're kind of at a different point from where you started to where you are now, so polish up that crystal ball real quick, and what do you think? I think there's two or three things that I think people have paid a lot of attention, a lot of attention to big companies that have or they think, have a lot of money because those companies generally controlled the major, um, perception of risks with their large utilities or large manufacturing organizations.  I think one of the next things you're going to see and one of the things that we're trying to do as well is to create a service that is both affordable and understandable by companies that can afford what most people are doing today. Um, in other words, just in the US, and I'll probably get these numbers wrong, Justin's dem or research on him than I have. But there may be 1000 to 5000 big companies that are out there looking for something like Ha Pereiro. There's 15 million small businesses in every one of those.  They come across some kind of risk whether that risk is safety, risk, financial risk, competitive risk. And I think that because that holistic approach that Ray talked about because of the the way Justin talked about not trying to be market specific about it, that giving those organizations the capability toe have something that makes their lives and companies better is a really function of where we're going. So that's number one is the creation of something that is less of a product and more of a I don't know house to describe it, but more of a service to the capabilities of smaller organizations.  The second thing that I see is that we will start to pay attention to the Millennials and Gen X Is and Jen Z's. And I don't know what's after Z because I'm a okay boomer again, huh? But, um, whatever that is, we're starting to try to pay attention to what those folks need. I mean, as I travel out there, there are less and less people of my age group. I'm in my early sixties. There's less and less people of my age group making more and more decisions.  And and we need to make sure that they learn what we've learned over the last 25 years and learn it early in their careers That will completely change the way they approach the workplace. So these new managers that air Millennials and Gen Xers and and younger people smart, brilliant people are not. I don't know that we're adequately catering. Sounds wrong, but I don't think we're meeting their needs. So we're we're trying to figure out ways to improve their companies and lives, do the creative application of technology that they understand hints, things like the ready app for your phone and any Lumi task for for being able to do effective, high risk tasks on on a tablet and be able to share all of that.  Um, so we've gone into the the, uh, market of trying to make things technological. I mean, it's in our name for crying out loud Fisher Improvement Technologies. Um And then the third thing is, we need to back it up. So that 12 13 14 15 year olds, maybe we start in elementary school with kids being educated in their e colors and personality tendencies. As they move into middle school, they start to understand how why people make mistakes and what they can do about it and how personal intervention fills into that.  So that by the time they get into a stem program, science, technology, engineering and math program, maybe we don't weed out some of those creative kids because they don't fit in a traditional stem mold like, say me, and not that I could fit in that mould. But I just think there's so many youth being left behind that have the talent and capabilities that are being shrouded by something as simple is the way their personality interacts with others that who knows what's being left on the table. I mean, we only know what that now we're moving into stem.  Tim is a good thing, and I believe that's true. What's that next step? Why our safety professionals that graduate with a degree in some kind of industrial safety? Um, regimen not coming out, knowing all of the attributes of human air, human performance, human and organisational performance, advanced air reduction and organizations why we need to understand the fallibility of humans. Why are why is that not core function of any safety, um, safety collegiate program out there? So those are the three things that I think are probably next on the horizon.  I don't have a crystal ball beyond that because at some point I think I'm going to sit back and watch these guys run with it. But but I think that we're I think we have active discussions over those three things. Pretty often, yeah, and our in our big, hairy, audacious goals for the organization and arrow. Try to reflect at least those three, and I think that we're pretty progressive and wanting to get out there in the very near future and ask, What do you need? Market not?  No, it was great. Steve Job tells us what we need, but at some point I also believe that the market knows something's that it needs, um, that we can probably help provide because we do have 25 years of experience of understanding the science behind it. Hope that's the answer to the question you're looking now. I'm looking for a lot of numbers at the new now, and it's really good because I think that the focal point that you're mentioning, it's stuff that we are lacking and I keep on looking at and I know that you and I and modified all of us in this room have had that millennial conversation several times in regards that I think that it's, ah, market opportunity that a lot of companies are missing and it's really it's not being targeted to correctly.  If I could say that, hell, if we're not careful, the millennials, they're gonna pass this my I mean the millennials they're gonna be You know what? The millennials are gonna be baby boomer age by the time we figure it out if we don't start doing something about it. Well, gentlemen, I appreciate you taking the time today, especially actually coming. Some of the information. Now, if people want to get more information about error, where would they need to go? Pero hp dot com. Well, gentlemen, I really do appreciate you all coming on to safety of him. Thanks.  Well, this brings another episode of the J. Allen show to a close. I appreciate you taking the time to listen to this particular episode that allowed us to find out how people that are related and still managed to work together well. And we took a deeper dive into advanced air reduction in organizations. We couldn't do what we do without you, the listener. So I appreciate you tuning in. We'll be back with another episode of the J. Allen show Before you know it. Goodbye for now. Wear changing safety cultures.  One broadcast in one podcast at a time. Safety dot com once more. The J. Allen Show Dog home. Wondering how you can show your love Head of announce a Facebook drop like the views and opinions expressed on this podcast or those of the host and its guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. It's not be utilized in the real world at the only solution available as they're based only on very limited in dated open source information assumptions made within this analysis or not reflective of the position of the company.  No part of this podcast may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, electronic recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast. Wow, how things can change from one week to the next. Hey, hope everybody out there is staying healthy. I know everything is super crazy. We feel disoriented by the cove in 19 virus. 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