Rejuvenating Yourself through Network Spinal Practice with Dr. Tonnie Wulff

Good morning and welcome to Green Tea Conversations, the radio show that delves into the pages of Natural Awakenings magazine to bring you the local experts who share progressive ideas and the latest information and insights needed so you can lead your best life. I'm your host, Candi Broeffle, publisher of the Twin Cities edition of Natural Awakenings magazine, and I am honored to bring these experts to you. Today in our studio, we have Dr. Tonnie Wulff, a network spinal practitioner at Optimal Wellness Solutions, which is located in Roseville. Welcome to the show, Dr. Tonnie. I was going to say, Dr. Wulff, but you said call your doctor Tonnie.

 

Thanks, Candi, thanks for having me.

It is great to have you in the studios today. So, we are going to talk about a technique called network spinal.

 

Correct.

 

But before we do that, I always like to have people kind of introduce themselves and tell us a little bit about your journey. So, often in the holistic health fields, people have their own journey that has brought them to becoming a practitioner.

 

Absolutely.

And so, if you could just kind of tell us a bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today.

Thanks for that, Candi. So, my name is Tonnie, and I'm not originally from Minnesota. I grew up on a farm in the northwest corner of Illinois. What brought me to Minnesota is I went to school at Gustavus Adolphus College. It's a great school. I wanted a liberal arts education. But one of the things that actually attracted me to that school is they had a rugby team. Yes, my older brother had discovered the sport of rugby in college, and I was always a tomboy, and he said, Tonnie, they let girls play the sport. And I said, oh, no way. I fouled at every basketball game I ever played in high school. So...

 

So a little bit of a scrapper, are you?

 

Yeah, I'm a bit of a tomboy, so I thought this is perfect for me. So, I started playing rugby in college and that led into a women's club side team. And we traveled all over the country. We played at a very high level. Some of my former teammates had played in the Olympics. Some of my teammates had played all over the country, like representing the United States in the World Cup. So, we were playing at a very high level. It was not just like, you know, your Tuesday evening softball game. You know, we were, it was pretty hardcore. And so Candi, do you know much about rugby at all?

 

I know. Yes, I know. Rugby is a really gentle sport, that's easy on your body.

 

I understand we're going to be speaking fluent sarcasm today.

 

It's one of my best languages.

 

Mine too.

 

But rugby is very, very hard on the bodies. It's a very physical sport.

 

It's a very physical sport for those that have no idea. Football actually originated from rugby. So, rugby was, is an older sport than football and American football actually came from rugby. They basically transformed the game. And so, there's its full contact. There's tackling, the ball is shaped in very similar to what a football looks like, except it's bigger. And there's this there's a restart to the game called the scrum. And it just looks like a group of people to the untrained eye just sort of pushing against each other. But basically what it is, is it's eight people on one team and then eight people on the other team that are all linked to each other. And then they come together and then the ball gets rolled through the middle and the kind of like a jump ball in basketball, the ball gets recycled, and then it's a restart to the game. How that's pertinent to what I'm talking about is my particular position was I was the person in the middle of all of that. So, basically, I had eight of my own teammates as well as eight of the opposite, the opposing team. All the weight of all of those people were being transferred basically through my body, particularly my spine. So, you don't have to be an expert in physics to know that there's probably some compressive forces going on there.

 

And so, you were having health issues. I mean, for people, you know, we're on the radio so people can't see you, but you are not by any means a large woman. You're a pretty petite person.

 

My coaches always said I played much, but I played bigger than what my physical statute was. Correct. So, yeah, so I started to, and this was probably in my early 20s now at this point I started to have issues with just my arms and my hands going numb. This makes sense. There's going to be a lot of compressive forces on the spine by this time I had I'd gone on a rugby tour to Ireland and on that tour was a chiropractor. And she was working with the athletes. And I was a little unsure of what the direction I wanted to go with my career. I had originally started with sports medicine. I didn't, that wasn't a real good fit for me. It felt like I was working in the training rooms and it just felt like I was a bandaid between the doctors and the athletes. And it just felt like we were kind of duct-taping people together without, you know, really...

 

Getting a difference.

 

Yeah, that's how it felt to me. And I just, it didn't feel like a good fit to me. And then when I saw the chiropractor on the rugby tour, I went, oh, maybe that would be a good fit for me. And so I started chiropractic school at Northwestern College of Chiropractic. It's now called Northwestern Health Sciences University. But back when I was there, it was just the chiropractic school. So I'm aging myself a little bit here, Candi.

 

Which, by the way, is right here in the Twin Cities.

 

Correct. It's located in Bloomington. So, that allowed me to continue playing rugby for the women's team that I had already been playing with and attend school. So, I was, it worked well for me because basically on Saturdays I would play rugby, which I would say would be the equivalent of like having a car accident every weekend essentially in my body. And then and then on Monday or Tuesday, I would get adjusted, which was great because I was already in school. However, I was really difficult to adjust, so I needed to have someone who is extremely skilled. So, one of my classmates wasn't enough. I need to have like a professor or a really skilled doctor around. So, I thought, this is, you know, this is not a problem for me because I'm choosing to play this extremely violent sport. This is just how it's going to be. I'm just going to be dependent on this for the rest of my life.

 

And I think in our 20s, we kind of look at that go, oh, it'll be fine, right?

 

Correct. Correct. So, about three-quarters of the way through school, a friend of mine started seeing a network spinal doc in the area. And it was a very unique approach. It's very gentle, extremely gentle. I'll talk a little bit more about that in a second here. But you've probably already gathered that I'm a pretty physical person. So, the adjusting techniques and anybody who has any experience with chiropractic know that there are no two chiropractors that are the same. And there are literally hundreds of, you know, a hundred different techniques out there, which in my opinion is awesome because we're all different and different strokes for different folks and certain things are going to work well for some people and not for others.

 

And so, I think that's fantastic. So, I had been attracted to the very physical sort of technique and a friend started seeing someone who was practicing this really gentle, gentle, gentle, gentle technique. So subtle. When I say gentle, I'm talking about as much pressure as you might use just with your putting your finger on your eyelid. So, I was intrigued because the technique was getting results, and I'm usually attracted to things that are sometimes a little different.

 

That makes sense.

 

Right, right. I naturally gravitate towards things that are just a little, that are a little different. So a friend started, you know, she started seeing this doctor and invited me to come to check it out. So, literally, when I started seeing this doctor, it wasn't because I was, like, desperate and I couldn't find anyone to help me. And it wasn't like that. I had, I figured I'll just continue to just get my t2 on the left adjusted on every Monday after a rugby game and this will just be how it is. So, I wasn't, like, desperately looking for help.

 

You were getting results.

 

I was, however, I was very dependent, I was very dependent on that if I didn't get checked on Monday or Tuesday, you didn't want to be around me. Because I was really uncomfortable. So, I was really dependent on it. So, when I started seeing this person, she said, listen, what we're doing here is we're actually working with your brain, Okay? We're going to be making some gentle contacts on your spine. But we're not actually, we're actually working with your brain, particularly the frontal lobe of your brain. That's the area that's responsible for conscious awareness. And what we're going to do is it's almost like your body gets sort of, it kind of goes on autopilot sometimes. Right? And so, what we're doing is we're kind of waking it up, okay. It's almost like it's on a dimmer light. The bodies just used to kind of going through life, just sort of. And we're going to just wake it up.

 

And so when we come back, we're going to learn more about what it means to wake up the body through network spinal. To learn more about the services offered at Optimal Wellness Solutions and to make an appointment, visit RosevilleOptimalWellness.com or call 651-340-1233. You're listening to Green Tea Conversations on AM950. We will be right back.

 

Welcome back to Green Tea Conversations, where we delve into the pages of Natural Awakenings magazine and talk to the professionals who share their expertise on natural health with you, I'm your host, Candi Broeffle and today we are talking with Dr. Tonnie Wulff, a network spinal practitioner at Optimal Wellness Solutions, which is located in Roseville. So, just before the break, you were telling us about your journey and how you became introduced to Network Spinal. And that was through your experience being a rugby player and then really being introduced to chiropractic care and starting to look at going into school to become a chiropractor. And it was during the time that you were in school that you were then introduced by a friend.

 

Correct.

 

Into network spinal. I'm going to keep saying that wrong.

 

That's Okay.

 

So tell us. Take it from there. Tell us more about what happened in your own personal experience as you were being introduced to this.

 

Okay. So, initially, the doctor that I initially saw, her name is actually Dr. Sharon Prall, she still practices here and she's down this way. Her practice is actually in Edina. She's one of my mentors. She was the initial person that I saw. And so, she said, so what I need you to do, Tonnie, is I need you to abstain not forever, but for just a bit on getting structurally adjusted. And I said, oh, my God.

 

Because as somebody who is really, really dependent on that in order to feel even halfway good.

 

Plus I'm in chiropractic school. And so, how we, how you learn is; you practice on each other. And so, I mean, Candi, there are students in school right now and probably just right out of school, that probably will need really good care just to recover from being in chiropractic school. Because they are each other's practice person and it takes practice to get good. So, you're usually not good before you're good.

 

And so, you were introduced to this technique. And she told you to abstain from getting any other chiropractic care.

 

Yeah. She said I don't want you getting structurally adjusted. And here's why. We're trying to teach your body how to learn, how to do this on its own. How to be able to find the tension patterns that are occurring within the cord. First and foremost, be aware. That there. Okay? Before we went to the break, I was talking about what we're doing is we're flipping the light bulb on in the brain, particularly the frontal cortex. So, I actually am a brain doctor that happens to work with the spine. Okay, so we work with the frontal lobe. We're going to flip the light bulb on. And it's almost like what's going to happen is we're going to go from a dimmer light to the lights being on and the brain in the body starts to have this new awareness. It's almost like the body starts to view itself from a third-person standpoint.

 

Like the body will look at itself and go; Candi, what is going on in your neck? What's going on in your shoulders? Why are your hips all twisted up? What's going on with your spinal cord? Why is that thing all jacked up? And once the brain can start to see what's actually been going on over and over and over again, it starts to figure out what to do about it. The body and the brain start to develop strategies for self-organization, self-correction, and the cord starts to learn how to unwind itself on its own.

 

So, she asked me to abstain from getting structurally adjusted for a period of time, because it's almost like the analogy that I like to use is it's almost like when you're trying to teach your five-year-old how to tie their shoes. Right. And so usually as you're leaving the house, it's busy and a lot of times you're in a rush. And little Johnny is fumbling with his fingers, trying to figure out how to tie shoes. And it takes him a while and we're going, oh, let me just do this for you, because we're late for church or we're late for whatever.

 

Right? If every time you do it for little Johnny, he never learns how to tie his own shoes. Okay, that was sort of the analogy that I was given for the structural adjusting. If every time someone comes in and just does it for you, your body will never learn how to do it on its own. So my initial experience, I was kind of... So, I was on the table and I was kind of, I'm so used to being a practice person for as a chiropractic student, you know, having someone just sort of wallop on me that I was sort of expecting that.

 

And it was really gentle, like I said earlier, about as much pressure as you would use, putting your finger on your eyelid. Now, the two areas where we work are actually at the base of your spine called the sacrum, and in the cervical spine, which is in your neck. Those are the two areas where the spinal cord anchors itself to the bones. So, it's called the dura mater. So, those are two areas where the spinal cord anchors itself. So, those areas are kind of like, they're kind of like high sensory receptor areas in the body. So, the analogy that I'll use just for the layperson is it's almost like what's happening is we're just pushing a button. And when we push the button in just the right way at just the right time, in just the right direction, with just the right amount of pressure, what happens is a stimulus goes right up through the cord, right up to the frontal lobe, the light bulb goes on, the brain goes, what's going on down here? And it goes, Oh, you're in a fight or flight right now.

 

Your body is responding like you're being chased by a lion right now and the brain goes, Candi, you're Okay. You're good, you're safe. You're not being chased by a lion. Oh, the body shifts into parasympathetic. Okay. The parasympathetic nervous system is what I like to refer to it as the housekeeping, where all the housekeeping tasks happen. So, your body is digesting food. It's making white blood cells and red blood cells and hormones and enzymes. It's where we should be spending about 98 percent of our existence really should be in that parasympathetic nervous system. The way to remember it is parasympathetic peace. Okay. Now, many of us don't spend 98 percent of our existence in parasympathetic, we're in the sympathetic nervous system, which is stress.

 

And that's our fight or flight.

 

Correct.

 

So, when we come back, we're going to continue talking about how network spinal helps us to get into our parasympathetic state. To learn more about the services offered at Optimal Wellness Solutions and to make an appointment with Dr. Tonnie, visit RosevilleOptimalWellness.com or call 651-340-1233, again that's 651-340-1233. To read the online version of Natural Awakenings magazine, visit NaturalTwinCities.com. You can find a podcast of this show on AM950Radio.com, on Apple and Google Podcasts, and anywhere you get your podcasts. You're listening to Green Tea Conversations on AM950, the Progressive Voice of Minnesota, and we will be right back.

 

Welcome back to Green Tea Conversations, where we delve into the pages of Natural Awakenings magazine and talk to the professionals who share their expertise on natural health with you, I'm your host, Candi Broeffle. And today we are talking with Dr. Tonnie Wulff, a network spinal practitioner at Optimal Wellness Solutions, which is located in Roseville.

 

So, just before the break, you were telling us how this particular technique, network spinal is a very gentle technique that's used in order to help kind of wake up the brain, make it become brighter, as you were using your analogy of a light switch being on dimmer and going all the way up to bright. And your brain is being turned on so that it can help to heal itself, help the body heal itself.

 

Yeah, the first step really is awareness. So, that's what the light bulb is. First, it has to see what's been going on all along. Okay, so that's that's the first step.

 

I think it's really interesting, if I may.

 

Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

 

I think it's really interesting you were talking about when you do this, your body or your brain is saying, okay, you think you're in fight or flight, you think you're in danger and you're really putting out all of these not so great hormones to protect yourself, to get us into taking action. But really, you're not in that state right now. You're not in danger. You're not, necessarily you're safe.

 

Here's the interesting thing, Candi. Our brain doesn't know the difference between a true physiological threat and a perceived one. So, we're sitting in a movie theater watching an action movie, okay? And the main character is going through car chases and escaping the villain and just, you know. All-out action and we're watching this. We are safe, we're sitting in a movie theater, eating popcorn, having a soda, we're safe sitting there, but we're totally connected with what's going on with the main character. And so our nervous system starts to respond as though we are in the car chase like it doesn't know the difference between a true physiological threat and a perceived one. So, when your computer crashes at work, logically, are you in danger? Like, is your survival in question?

 

We might think so at the moment, but no, it really isn't.

 

Correct. But everything in our biochemistry responds as though it is. And so, I can give you a breakdown like real basic, what happens when we start to move into that sympathetic neural state, is a nice chunk, like a big chunk of the blood and the energy that was being used to digest food for immune function, for hormone regulation, all the housekeeping stuff, now that energy goes to the big muscles of your body to run, to fight whatever's attacking you or to run. The other physiological response that happens is we mentally, emotionally disconnect. Now, this is smart from a survival standpoint. If we're being attacked by a lion, it does not help us to stay alive if we start crying about it immediately, oh, my God, the lion is going to get me, like that doesn't help. Like, that's not going to help keep us alive. So, we actually do mentally, emotionally disconnect so that we can fight the lion. All right. And then from a physiological survival of the fittest standpoint, let's say we escape the lion and we outrun it or we kill it, or we crawl up in the tree and it runs away and now we're safe. Now, we start to mentally, emotionally reconnect. We start to breathe, we might even start to cry, we might even go, oh my God, I almost got attacked by this lion. You know, the energy goes back.

 

You start having normal functioning again.

 

Yeah, the body goes back into the parasympathetic back into the housekeeping activities and this is where we're designed to spend most of our time. Right. But, the world is so different than it was, if you think about the span of human history, right, the span of all the years humans have been on the earth, and then you think about what the last hundred to seventy-five to fifty years has even been, we live drastically different than we did back in the day when our only threat was, the only need for a sympathetic neural state was either war or somebody was, or a lion was attacking us. Okay. Now, our lifestyle is so different, right? We get up quick. Maybe you got up late and you go, oh my God, I'm late for work and I've got to get the kids ready for school. And now you're driving this vehicle that's (27:58) you're going 50, 60 miles an hour. And so... Crashes at work. And we're living our lives in a sympathetic neural response.

 

Right. And we talk about that in coaching a lot. Right? It's this whole idea that we're constantly under this stress, this fight or flight situation. And so, we talk about that a lot in coaching and how we can help people to overcome that. It's interesting to me that you're talking about it in the physical form and how you can treat that so that our mind can then start to heal the body. So, how does the network spinal actually help us to be able to do that?

 

So, our objective first and foremost is to move the body into a parasympathetic state, to go from the sympathetic, the stress, survival to parasympathetic to peace. Okay, and so, as we start working with people, the parasympathetic neural response becomes the default response versus the sympathetic neural state becoming the default response. And we backdoor it. Okay, because, if... We backdoor it so the body learns these neural strategies. So there are neural strategies, the body is learning how to default into this parasympathetic state, and when we start to default into that, we can actually start to perceive our environment differently.

 

Okay? And the thing that's so great about it is it doesn't require conscious thought to do it, which is helpful because if you're in the middle of a traffic jam and you're late for something that's very important. You're thinking, I'm late, I'm late, I'm late, I'm late and late. And this was my first experience with really understanding the power of this. Because this was my experience. I was late for something. I was trying to make a good impression. There's no part of me that's in my highest self going just relax, calm down. Like, I couldn't even tap into that. And we get stuck in that right, where you just, you don't even have access to that because you're just so in that train. And so what ended up happening is I'm in this. I'm late, I'm late, I'm late. I'm late, I'm late. And then my body all of a sudden just goes (she breathes deep). And my body breathed itself into ease. There was no part of my conscious thought that was saying, just relax, it's okay.

 

So, It's interesting because when you think about what people are going to come to you for, they're going to come to you because they're in pain. And when we are in pain, no matter... I mean, I don't care if you have a cold or if you're experiencing real physical pain, all we can think about is that thing. It's like that whole idea of I start to sniffle and oh my gosh, I hope I don't get a cold. And that's all we think about. But when we're in pain, you really can't make decisions on how do I relax myself into feeling better.

 

Right.

 

And so that's what the network spinal does. You said it's not even a conscious thing like people...

 

Were back during it. Yes. So, I'm so glad you brought up pain. Pain is so interesting. And when you talked about pain, you talked about having a cold and immediately you went into, oh, am I going to get sick? Oh, what does this mean? And the thing of it, the thing with pain is, the piece about it that makes it hard is obviously pain is uncomfortable. But the thing that can be most challenging about pain is what does the pain mean? Is this pain ever going to go away? Is this pain going to get worse? What does this pain mean? Does this pain mean I have cancer? Does this pain mean I might have to have surgery? Does this pain mean I might never be able to pick up my grandkids? Does this? It's almost like what the pain means is worse than actually the pain.

 

Right? The interpretation we give it.

 

And so, initially, what can sometimes shift for people is sometimes people have different responses, like everyone's initial experience is going to be different. But sometimes the initial experience is they might not immediately have the pain go away. But how they feel about the pain is different. So, they actually might still have their pain initially. But they can have peace with the pain.

 

Which is an interesting concept, isn't it, I mean, when you think about that, it sounds so far-fetched, especially if somebody is listening to us right now who is in a lot of pain and it's all-consuming to them right now. But to understand that there is a relief, even before the physical is is healed, there can be a relief in the thought process of the pain. And so that's what you're doing when you're working with people and you're using the network spinal techniques?

 

Correct? Because if someone is in pain and many times they're responding from a sympathetic state, they're in a fight or flight, sort of a state. So, the problem with being in that sympathetic neural state is no healing ever happens from that state. You can't heal from that state. The body's just trying to stay alive. Okay, so first we have to shift the body into peace. That's the first place to start with any kind of healing. And that's first and foremost, my objective. So, when someone leaves my office, that's initially all I care about is have we moved from them from a sympathetic state to a peaceful state. Now, a lot of times  I'll say, listen, I want you to pay attention to what's going on in your physical body. And then I just give them a homework assignment. And I can tell you a little bit more about that after the break.

 

So, yes, we are going to be back in just a minute. But for people who want to learn more about what Dr. Tonnie does and the other services that are offered at Optimal Wellness Solutions, you can visit RosevilleOptimalWellness.com or call 651-340-1233 again that's 651-340-1233. To read the online version of Natural Awakenings magazine, visit NaturalTwinCities.com. You're listening to Green Tea Conversations on AM950, and we will be right back.

 

Welcome back to Green Tea Conversations, where we delve into the pages of Natural Awakenings magazine and talk to the professionals who share their expertise on natural health with you, I'm your host, Candi Broeffle. And today we are talking with Dr. Tonnie Wulff, a network spinal practitioner at Optimal Wellness Solutions in Roseville. So, just before the break, we were starting to talk about the network spinal and how it helps people, how it helps your brain or your body to become more aware of the state that it's in. And I find it really interesting because just before the break, you said in this state when we are in the fight or flight state, our survival state, we are unable to heal ourselves.

 

And there really is there's two different types of energy that we use and the coaching that I do. But the stress-energy; or the fight or flight energy is catabolic energy. And it is actually kind of, it takes away, it actually is a little destructive to our body if we're in that state for a long time, it causes a lot of damage. And then the healing energy has anabolic energy. And unless you're out of that fight or flight state, you can't experience the anabolic energy. And so, anabolic is the healing energy, which means our body can heal itself.

 

Our mind can heal itself in the coaching world. So, you were talking about the network spinal and how it helps just the technique that you use, the first thing that it does is it help, your body becomes aware in your brain to become aware of what's actually happening. And so, what are some of the other things that happened? And so, that's kind of the first step in the process of healing.

 

Yeah.

 

And then what happens from there?

 

Well, what is a typical response is, sometimes people will actually start to feel their breath change. They'll be aware of the breath changing. And it's not because I'm saying take a deep breath. They'll just start breathing. Their breathing will shift and they'll feel it. They might feel themselves, relaxed, and sink into the table. That's a common response. They might get a couple of really good nights of sleep. I ask them to pay attention to their sleep initially. I also asked them to pay attention to what's going on in their physical body, because sometimes they'll get up off the table and they'll say, oh, my goodness. I can move my neck, like, I can actually like and I didn't physically do,  I didn't move anything, Okay? The body just unwound. Initially, we were just trying to get the brain to connect with the tension, see where it's at and unwind and release it. And we might do another session. And it connects deeper and it releases more. And so the objectives really are twofold. We're just trying to get the brain and the body to connect and release. To connect a) with what's their release and unwind. And the body starts getting better and better and better at this. And then what also then starts to happen is because we're spending more and more and more time in that parasympathetic state, the stress that continues to come at us because unless we live in a bubble Candi...

 

We're going to have stress.

 

And all of it can be thrown into three categories we have physical, so, which would be like car accidents, shoveling snow, sporting injuries, or simply just sitting at your desk all day. Right. That's actually not really ergonomically designed to do that. So, that's actually physical stress or chemicals, anything we take into our body, stuff that comes on food, stuff we inhale, lots of medications. It's chemically stressful. And then the third one is the mental-emotional. That's work stress, family stress, relationships stress, financial stress, that stuff. So, where nobody's getting out unless you're going to go live on a mountain and just meditate your whole life.

 

I'm sure there's probably some stress there, too.

 

Right. None of us are getting out. But what can start to change is how we're perceiving our environment. Right. Because perception is everything. It really is. And so you could be, your body... You could be on a roller coaster. Right. And person A sits in the roller coaster and the roller coaster, it's going upside down and all around and it's throwing your body all over the place and person A is exhilarated and they're having a blast. Person B sitting right next to them, they're experiencing the same thing. The roller coaster is literally doing the same thing to their body. But Person B is experiencing whiplash and terror and they get off the roller coaster and they vomit.

 

Which, by the way, would be neat?

 

And I'm person A. So there you go. So, they're physically having the same, they're having the same physical experience. But what's the difference? How are their bodies perceiving that? Right. So, chemical stress, person A, eats this type of food and they absolutely thrive. Person B eats the same food. Food poisoning, vomit, an allergic reaction and we can think of a gazillion examples for mental-emotional stress and how we perceive things differently that way.

 

So, give us an example of maybe somebody who came into you and some of the results that they have seen, like tangible results that they had.

 

Okay. So, we have a woman who, and this would just be like a standard pain situation, right? She's in a lot of pain specifically, you know, through her arms and hands and kind of in her mid-back. And we helped her body to kind of unwind and relieve enough of that stress to where she can now pick up her grandkids, Okay? And she was, she didn't like, she's real sensitive, so she couldn't handle, like, a lot of hands-on, kind of deep therapy that sometimes, you know, you might get for that. And so, this kind of work was very effective for her because it was super gentle for her. And she was able to, you know, engage physically with her grandkids. She was able to pick them up again. I have other but, kind of my bread and butter, I would say, is folks with like anxiety and depression and maybe insomnia and that kind of thing where they just get, they get locked into that fight or flight state and they just can't get out of it. And so, I have another lady who is, you know, now she sleeps, you know, she was never able to sleep and her body could get into a place where she was able to sleep. This is one of my favorites, though.

 

I wish we could go into this more, Dr. Tonnie, but we are at the end of our show.

 

No problem.

 

So, for people who want to learn more about the services offered at Optimum Wellness Solutions and to make an appointment with Dr. Tonnie, visit RosevilleOptimalWellness.com or call 651-340-1233. Thank you for joining the conversation today as we awaken to natural health. To read the online version of Natural Awakenings magazine or to check out our complete online calendar of events, visit NaturalTwinCities.com. Thank you for joining our conversation today as we awaken to natural health. You've been listening to Green Tea Conversations and I am wishing you a lovely day!