Blair Boyd, Host of Safety than the Average podcast
October 19, 2020
In this week's episode, Sheldon speaks with Blair Boyd of Safer than your Average podcast. Blair is from Scotland UK and they speak about his journey in the safety world, getting safety training while working, and contrasts between US OSHA and the UK system for safety regulations.
Keywords: Blair Boyd, UK, Brexit, Residential Construction, Construction Safety, England, Scotland, Scottish, Workplace EHS, Safety and Health, OSHA, Sheldon Primus, Safety and Health, EHS, Subject Matter Expert, Summit Safety, Safety Consultant, OSHA, OSHA Compliance, Business Leadership, Leadership, Occupational Safety, PPE, Hierarchy of Controls, HOP, BBS, Entrepreneur, Mentoring, Board Members, Nuclear Power Safety, Power Generation Safety
[00:00:02] spk_1: this'll episode is powered by Safety FM. Tha s welcome to the safety consultant Podcast. I am your host, Sheldon. Promise Thistles. The podcast where I teach you the business of being a safety consultant. Well, this week we're gonna have an interview in our interview. We're going to be interviewing with Mr Blair Boyd of Scotland. E think you'll be able to tell by the accent what we do? Talk. So Blair was really kind Thio do this interview with me. It was late in the night for him, and he is a chartered health and safety practitioner, and he definitely works closely with business leaders engaged in all level of the workforce. Throughout our conversation, we talked about how he has worked and basically came up in the system and was managing multi multi multiple people in areas of not only doing their inspection, doing some of the employees, uh, interaction with management and management interaction. So he was the liaison between them helping them with all their working relationships, and truly he has a a very great mind for those regulatory things in the UK. So he was helping me understand some of the rules and basically how for me as a U S based consultant, how those rules for OSHA kind of meets up with some of the UK rules. And truly, even though my business is international, I haven't really done ah bunch of work in the U. K. So it was great for me to get a good foundation. So his Blair was going through his his pathway into safety and health. We also touched on a few other topics related to regulation culture. And he talked about the culture of one company that he worked for, where he was the safety and health Seoul officer of the construction of residential construction area aspect of the company. So that was, like, really excellent. So this week, we're not going to do a tip of the week. We're just gonna get right into the episode with Blair. No sponsors on this one as well. So it's just gonna be being Blair were talking. And then right after, we're just gonna end the episode, and then next Thursday, they're actually this Thursday, we'll complete the rest of this episode. So you're gonna have Blair Boyd for two episodes this week. So without any further ado, let's go ahead and let's bring Blair into the conversation that we're gonna have and go get him next this week. Tell us everything about Blair.
[00:03:08] spk_0: Okay? I've just in about So my name is Blair Boyd have been in safety for number of years. Now, I dread to think how many years it's been a few scale works here. I think that started the printing industry assay young, fresh, faced, fresh out of school, that young and a But were you trying to walk out my way in the world on Guy started There was a trainee on progress through that pretty quickly. Had a really great management. I get called Stephen Girl on, but I still keep in touch yesterday on E he said I know how to kill you. Oh, yeah, way would behavior. I'm going to give me a lot of responsibility. Andi, get you progressing through the ranks a little bit. So I got the dubious owner off becoming the forklift trainer. Uh um put it in the four class on, say, and I was only 1920 years old at that stage. I was training guys twice my age, sometimes on how you opened it for laughs, and that kind of sparked my interest. Never been safety. Then I got a really great opportunity. Came my way. Manager had paid to go on the Irish, managing safely calls on. He decided a couple of days before that. They don't really fancy on rather than waste the money, did they say, Did they send me on a E? I was going on this health and safety course on. I thought right. Okay, that should be interesting. So I went along the course on, but that was absolutely born away. They were talking about hazards and risks. And what place? Safety and all that great stuff. And I'm thinking, Wow, people get paid to do this for the loving. That's just what I want. Todo really inspired off the back, of course. And that was with all the passion and the drive came from to get involved in, Uh, so
[00:05:12] spk_1: that means a safety star was born at that moment. You had a little spark that came?
[00:05:18] spk_0: Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. It was interesting. Get their information from that. And then Seattle your path that could be mapped out from that. Yeah. So
[00:05:30] spk_1: hold on. before you go any more people might just kind of guessed by the accent that you're maybe not native to the U S and eso Don't forget that part. Tell them where you from, where you're from And, uh, and your your background there is. Well,
[00:05:45] spk_0: okay, so I'm from Jacksonville and Florida. Good jags? No, not really. So I'm from Glasgow and Scotland, which is in the UK
[00:05:59] spk_1: Great, Great, because I have an international audience. So I know that some people will recognize right away the accent and some people will, uh, they'll think like, Oh, man, that's a real Scottish guy in the States and they don't know that you're you're presently, you know, in Scotland. And were you born and raised there is Well,
[00:06:16] spk_0: yes, yes, I was. Yeah, that would place called Clay Bank, which has a big industrial heritage. It was famous for building ships on building suing machines like Mr Boils. And the tone was tangles Swing machines, which waas American Company on John Brown's shipbuilding, which built some of the most luxurious ocean going liners, Azarias battleships in the world. One of the one of the famous ships is on their long beach in California. It's called the Queen Mary. Map was built in clay banks on that of a played s
[00:07:00] spk_1: so familiar. Yeah, Yeah, that really sounds familiar. Was that inaction with one of the World Wars?
[00:07:09] spk_0: Yes. I believe it was a trip carrying ship in the second World War.
[00:07:14] spk_1: That's probably where I remember, because I the name just just stands out. As as I should know this, uh,
[00:07:24] spk_0: also the key to was built in clay bank, the Queen Elizabeth two, whose vote for the King are blaming Clear Bank in the sixties. It's no doc under by on its being converted into a luxury hotel on the by now, but also about on the played by one of the best ship building houses in the world, which was John Brown's. It's no longer there just a lock in our political history way. Could probably felt to podcasts wealth if we went into, But yeah, that zone. So what? Uh, safety was a little based around Glasgow being a big industrial place, you'll find that the West of Scotland has probably one of the highest memberships over the IR branches UK.
[00:08:14] spk_1: It's like 1200.
[00:08:16] spk_0: Yeah, there's only 1200 member. That z a big problem for structure a small part of the UK. Yeah,
[00:08:25] spk_1: No kidding. And that's really just a chapter. It's not like it's many chapters. You got one chapter?
[00:08:31] spk_0: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:32] spk_1: Wow. Well, give me your keep going with your journey, cause I do want to talk about I osh If I can't after you're done with that. So I left you when you first started getting into safety. You landed a great job after that. And s So what happened?
[00:08:48] spk_0: Yeah. So I got my fox. Came that interest on the construction industry. We carried out a project to set up a d S n before the central with the popular things that they are. No, because the printing business that what for was a ball on business, thereby financial business Eso way set up. That's the same time we had contractors and walking. So I want a lot of chefs cannot helping out the contractors, giving them support, driving a footbath, giving them, actually not permits and doing things like that just came out looking after the morning. See, walking a lot of different chefs is really bad. Chef. The nature on. I progressed pretty well through that rule. I really enjoyed it for us. It's really interesting that I like to see the things on. We installed a huge bag in an uninterruptible power supply is well, Thio power up the data center left. The power went off, which was really interesting. I think that's either things fast and eating. And
[00:09:52] spk_1: was that all like a backup generator scenario? Or is it coming
[00:09:56] spk_0: from you big backup generator? Oh, there's realized. Beat us in on. Can a battery set off his way over the A poster place? You could have 30 minutes on the path of these forward by the generator catching and take on. Definitely. That's
[00:10:14] spk_1: such detailed work. Because even with those generators, you got to know if you want, you know, randomly round versus uh, what? When I say wound. I mean, theatrical, uh, I guess the coils inside the generator would that be, uh, what is? I remember having a seaman's generator, and I believe that was when your past companies, but, uh, I was a plant manager at a wastewater treatment plant and we're upgrading all our switch gears. And we had a seaman's guy come in. And hey, just was a brilliant electrical engineer and all the different things he was teaching me about that and about the generators. And I didn't know there was just that much more Tiu figure out. So? So I could only imagine the integral and technical things that you had to just learn as you're doing that job.
[00:11:05] spk_0: Yeah, yeah, it was really interesting. Especially getting the command office for the tradesmen and understanding how day while operating and how they carried out the tasks you get. What can I face time with them and talk to him about it. So it was really interesting things. So I came to progressed on with that and then went back to my my normal rule with health and safety is an additional role on they were going to get me a full time safety managers role that came there where I was transitioning toe on. I was laying off the corner university degree as a daily student, this part off my road after completing the neighbor general, South Africa, which is akin a general health and safety qualification in the UK It's known for the they can I mean one unemployed. A look for you. Look for the knee boss general certificate on. Then you look at the higher level qualifications, such as the knee Bush diploma or a degree level qualification. That's the kingdom's standard. There's also another bridge, which is killed on the job training. Rick called UH N V Q, which is a national vocational qualification on a total common, actually assess you carrying out the job on, then certify you as a certified professional problem. And
[00:12:28] spk_1: does it have a safety component as well?
[00:12:31] spk_0: Yes, yes, so that that's the health and safety qualification as well. Okay, you can, in overall as a health and safety practitioner on demonstrating that by providing the evidence by. But there's also the new Bush diploma on. The dignity cannot root center. So they've all got thank differences on that all valued at the same level what the construction as in the UK that people work for us to go through the levels of Irish. So for technical membership, you would normally have a new boss General South Africa. If you want to move up to graduate level, you would will commit one of those higher level qualifications. Um, such as the M P. Q. The degree all the knee bush diploma on, then moving through from there. You would then be able Thio be eligible. Thio Undertake one of the tourists through the Irish accreditation to become a chart off health and safety professional. Because I always use a chapel body have been ascent by Royal Charter on that they can have a chart of accreditation for health and safety professionals. I believe it's the only one in the world that's got the royal chapter.
[00:13:49] spk_1: That's awesome. I am. See for us in in the U. S side. We really, um I get this question all the time from people wanna be, uh, safety consultants, because that's pretty much my bulk of my audience are. Either They're practicing practicing safety officers. That air get the thought of Oh, yes. Someday I'm gonna go start my own safety consulting business or I have people who have already started their safety consulting business, so I'm helping them along that path. But I do get that question a lot for my students about what's the path to, uh, they don't say it this way, But the idea is so I could prove that I have some safety and health like chops, knowledge, understanding. And they're looking for letters behind their names, so they want some sort of certification. So I'm always answering that question, and I just didn't know how I would approach it on an international level. And I knew me. Bosch and I was very aware of that. I didn't know about, uh, well for the ISO 45,000 and one, you know, to be auditor and the lead auditor. But from from that aspect, that's really all I knew. So hearing about the different certifications that you guys were using there, and I don't know if that's ah UK specific thing or do you see it also in the African countries and maybe even
[00:15:13] spk_0: a Yeah. I also is a national membership organization so you can attend in any country in the world. As long as you can demonstrate that you felt the criteria on, then if you want to become chart off, you go through one of the on actual professional development processes, either providing the skills development portfolio or carrying out the examination based accreditation believe I ocean on the walks at the moment off, potentially change in some of the leading structures. Aunt also introducing, uh, to prove experiential whelming code on it, which is accreditation for prior experiential whelming on. That's gonna goto with the Irish members at the next G m. Whether these changes are gonna be ratified, then progress through next year.
[00:16:07] spk_1: Excellent. Well, for those that are familiar with Ayyash, can you add Tell him the acronym and the actual, uh, the meaning of the acronym.
[00:16:18] spk_0: Sure. So I also is the institution off Occupational safety and health. On it was a UK based organization that are charitable organization that work for the betterment of occupational safety and health internationally on the sponsor, a water research and to health and safety and developing systems processes, as well as providing that can a member network across the world that's based on a branch model that the branches Aziz, you call them in the U. S. Chapels each meet um, on a frequent basis. They'll have a guest speaker come along who then pervade continuous professional development to remembers by presenting some of the things that has a subject matter expertise, they'll have some of the branch business, such as the Kanak Committee walks and how each of the on enacting groups like the construction group probably industry Group permit nationally and the casket some of that information on it. It's mostly run by volunteers with a full team. Can a regional managers the Port Branch network? So it's a great organization. They do some fantastic work internationally on. I would highly recommend anyone wasn't the podcast they say not become an Irish member.
[00:17:48] spk_1: Excellent. I get the newsletters in the email, and every time I read those emails and I'm seeing the penalties and then jail time and I'm like What? Not only the getting penalties over there, but we're getting jail time, too, and the U. S We don't really have that with with our OSHA regulations or everything. So it's really eye opening when I see that because I do have an international business. But generally when I do work outside of the U. S, it's either in the Caribbean or Canada s Oh, I'm still considered international, but I do some work. Uh, I haven't gone over quite too far over the pond, as they say. You know, I'm willing Thio now I'm willing to. So that's why you're You're like I'm soaking information. Everything you're telling me Blair is just, you know, I'm like a sponge. Just, you know, getting this thing in. So that's excellent for for everyone's purposes,
[00:18:46] spk_0: go ahead, go ahead. That was probably one of the biggest changes and legislation on the UK coming in with a corporate manslaughter corporate homicide. Um, can a scenario that's no cumin, a war that the controlling minds often organization off the director feel like oven organization? Can they be personally prosecuted for a it work? And they could face a charge off corporate home asi corporate manslaughter that they've corporately code someone
[00:19:22] spk_1: Wow and e no, this is going to probably be a little technical per se, but I know with the UK, Scotland, even England with Brexit how does this all work together? Where if there is a mandate is a coming us? Where is it coming from? Ah, UK version Or how is this? How is it structured, if you will for for me not knowing the structure right
[00:19:54] spk_0: now. So Waas Uh ah What are the health and safety was in the UK are based on European law. There was an introduction I think a few years ago, called the sex pack off regulations. And that was the management of health and safety. What regulations, manual handling operations, regulations display screen equipment regulations, the workplace, health, safety and welfare regulations, as well as the provision and use of work equipment regulations on the personal protective equipment. Regulations on each of these regulations were based in European law on not common across all of Europe. What happened was the European Parliament proposes these laws and then the ratified by each of the member states. But they're adopting into that country's law. So Brexit about can Tara how that's all gonna work going forward. Um, but some of the some of the best they open safety orders in the UK have come from Europe and come from some of the arrangements that came through the European Union.
[00:21:10] spk_1: Well, you know, I'm one of these regulation, uh, specialists for OSHA, so I know that, but getting getting a little idea of other laws and other things because truly, when I tell people when they're starting their own safety consulting business, I say you probably might want to start a regulation first before you could get to culture because most people they can't even get past the rags before they could get into safety. Culture.
[00:21:38] spk_0: Get baby Great Foster. Definitely definitely eso for your complying with the war as a minimum
[00:21:48] spk_1: A is though you're seeing That was about that eyes that the same for you. Then you're seeing that as well.
[00:21:55] spk_0: Yeah. Oh, cool. And yeah, yeah, yeah, one on one. And the UK is Thio to make sure that you can play with the law in the first instance before you get on some of the fancy or stuff like cultural development and cultural model in and human performance and bringing those aspects. And yet you need to make sure that you've got your business protected first and foremost, you're developing to make sure that you comply with the laws and absolute baseline minimum
[00:22:26] spk_1: that makes sense. And, uh, I know you. You you have some some laws that you wanted thio kinda help us come to speed with. And, uh and I think just just listening to the inception of some of these rules. It is truly amazing because for us in 71 is when OSHA the administration started, But the act was in 1970 truly it was just, you know, Congress was forced in that way, saying Alright, country got fed up with all the injuries and illnesses. I believe it was like 45 a day or something similar to that at that time. So that's what pushed the catalyst to pushing OSHA out. So what was some of the catalysts in in, you know, the the UK that you know said all right, enough's enough. We need some rules,
[00:23:18] spk_0: Sure. So from 1961 to 1970 1200 people were being killed. Every year, 1200 people every year from 1961 to 1970 on the UK recognized a Zain Asher on the appointed a gentleman called Alfred Robbins, who was also known as Bad in Robin's off warding Ham on. He was appointed Thio carry out at the view and to health and safety what he came from a background that he tried to be prime minister at one time. Hey was a trade unionist. Onda labor politician has always been an industrialist on duty. Poor timing you never managed to create attend the role of Prime Minister had quite a significant role in the national cool. Andi carried out this report and what was happening on industry that was causing all of these issues. And we don't people being in jail. Much of the law at the team in the UK was obscured on unintelligible. There was a hot house of mass of legislation. E took it in detail, difficulty amend and frequently a Aziz. Well, there was various enforcement agencies that overlapping jurisdictions, and that's caused a lot of confusion. You had instead of having one regulator the body, for example, you had the factories inspectors to inspect the factory premises on. Then you had environmental health who went out places that retail things like food as well as came the drops a swell. So there was a overlapping jurisdiction. Now one of the main conclusions Lord Robbins report was there was one single cause above all else for all these accidents, and that will heal foot watch. And it was apathy on, he said the very famous quote into the report. There was apathy at the top. Apathy at the medal, Mathea at the bottom of industry. I think that stuff up there, what are the issues that we see? I don't have to say. Yeah,
[00:25:36] spk_1: absolutely. I mean, uh, that's like one of the things when I do like a mock OSHA inspection. And truly I look for the technical stuff. But when I'm introducing are talking to an interviewing with people and just you could tell you get a general sense from a organization that some of these workers air completely tuned out there. Just management completely tuned out. And I count, that is being apathy to
[00:26:09] spk_0: Yeah, Yeah, definitely, definitely one of sort of some court stuff. I've kept on no off because I love some of the language that some of these reviews have written. Um, that's presented by some of the really clever people that have been politicians that carry out some of these review panels on whiled. Robbins went on to found the Health and Safety at Work Act in 1974 which is the underpinning law off UK health and safety. Um, it's called quite predominantly. The pay didn't act. It's an act of parliament that ratifies a few things until war. This is This is this is our basically that's just where we're walking from on day. One of the things that I took from the report that God, I will know a few does room. The Robbins report had far reaching proposals devised. A system whereby own employees on employers became aware the health and safety was a concern for everyone on there should be ownership off health and safety. So one of the courses of present system encourages too much reminds on state regulation on rather too, on personal responsibility and voluntary self generating effort. Uh,
[00:27:41] spk_1: does that mean that they have, uh, Justus the thought? Does that mean that they also have personal culpability for people where not only can the company get fined, but an individual can get fined?
[00:27:55] spk_0: Yep. So there's duties for employees under the health and safety at Work Act is whereas the employer. So if you do something wilfully or recklessly on the course of your employment that leads to you or someone else being injured, you could personally be prosecuted on. This is an act of parliament, so you could be prosecuted on the camera war. Wow. Just eventually I find there's also the more city smart other gun on standing in front of economical judge.
[00:28:23] spk_1: Wow. Okay, because what? You started talking about that. And it makes perfect sense that everyone has to think of their own personal safety for themselves and for their coworkers, as opposed to just leaning on Theis employer. So I'm glad that that, you know, there's working in that in the rules. And that was 74. You said? Yeah. So it was even after our OSHA.
[00:28:47] spk_0: Yeah, on then. Some of the other quotes from the report where the suggestion that there is a need for a single comprehensive framework legislation which would cover all work activity supported and supplemented by a syriza control state detail waas specific problems assess. It'd be voluntary standards on more flexible codes of practice. A approved code of practice, which is released in the UK, has under a quasi legal status that if you can demonstrate that you achieve the same thing by other means, then all well and good if you can that they get it will use their proof called the Practice to demonstrate how you should have done a part of the prosecution. Oh,
[00:29:40] spk_1: wow. Now that xylitol novel, because truly, um, what we're seeing with the OSHA rags and OSHA is over. Um, there over industry general industry construction. Uh, then also they have agriculture and maritime. So general industry, of course, is the biggest one. That's where you have pretty much anything from manufacturing to warehousing to retail thio. Anything that is going to not have a construction egg or maritime component falls into that general industry, so they don't have flexibility. And most things with with getting you get to the end results, regardless of how you do it. You follow this rule every once in a while, you see, they call them a performance standards, which, like, for instance, if they say you have to have a competent person on your job site. They don't tell you how this person becomes competent. But the rule says you have to have the competent person to do inspectors and everything else. It's up to you how you decide that they're competent, But other than that, if they set a rule on certain standards, they don't. They don't generally don't say generally allow you thio deviate from the base rules, even if you could prove that that you have the same result. Unless you do some sort of you asked for some sort of waiver and There's no special permissions for that. But it's usually industrywide.
[00:31:11] spk_0: Yeah, very interesting. Really. Enter. Take on. It s so if you want to lunch back and you're Johnny with only a couple of doctor fio. Yeah,
[00:31:27] spk_1: yeah, yeah. You see my mind just a soon as I hear things, you know, It's like, you know, I jump on somewhere. I gotta now tunnel, You know, you kind of rain me in there. Come on, just rein me in E tell us a little
[00:31:39] spk_0: bit more eso I've got Thio that the business that I was walking for at the time wanted to meet you. Look it moving in your field team health and safety at all On. I got the great often off. Let's get you to study at degree on health and safety. We'll pay for a more give you time off. What? They're going to study. Here it is. Thank you. This is exactly where I want. It s so I applied for the police at university. I got it all sorted out. I got a little the form signed on. I just needed the director's signature on last piece of paper on the funds would be released and be called the universe's On on Monday morning a Gin July sorting Madrid July A couple of weeks before I was due to start my place in university E walked in to an office on of building on. There was a note old personnel worked within the 2 p.m. Meeting on the canteen thing. This is about strange on. We'll go to the canteen, uh, 2 p.m. On all of the directors chip comment way. Have some bad news We're not gonna miss. You got quarter. There's going to be the potential, but the printing section of this business will be out. So to have another organization on those the potential for everybody here to be made redundant. Uh, wow, at this point, I've been here for 10 years. That was my first full time job after leaving school s Oh, what am I gonna do next? So we were told that we would be would pastor on giving a redundancy package, Um, but dragged on for more than a year that we would end up notice or redundancy which led to create I don't happen. Atmosphere over 100 came on Gamble waiting to move on s fast forward through that a little bit. I decided that doesn't have enough health and safety experience. So say that's feed operation to be considered a general practitioner. So I decided to go out there and get myself a much experience is a good E. I met a gentleman who stole them in my friend. I mean, no Gay called William Vestal Willy because a brilliant gay, the next airport fireman on he had just left the airport fire brigade and put themselves through the same degree that I wanted to go and study at the University of the West of Scotland s a very well respected health and safety degree program. And we'll touch a little bit on that. We're gonna talk a little bit more detail about, uh well, well, they had set up his own consultancy business on training business called Max. If solutions was quite small at the time, It's not the size of the organization now. He was just like in a start up, that that thing on, I asked him for some walk experience and he said Yes, let me go. What? You see, some of the states he was working on at that time he was consultant to have written from Ah, Funeral power on down a little bit Digestion plan right through thio vehicle. We finish in workshops, maintenance places, construction businesses you name it. He was consulting Thio Funeral directors are probably some of the most people have a built worth for practical jokes and think that
[00:35:35] spk_1: I can remember going to the
[00:35:36] spk_0: funeral home. We talked to them about the chemical control and putting a cost risk assessment and place when for the chemicals that they had on say on and I walked into the actual Parle on there was a new empty coffin on the CD. Typically, about your practical joke on me and jump. Don't scared me on You could have scraped me off of the ceiling at that point a going alright eso got some great experiences But what done was what we were they from Can I eight o'clock every morning up until one o'clock And then from there I went back to walk on the front and side from two pm at 10 p.m. S. I was walking masses arrivals to get that experience often really, really in my class from there I managed to get my place at university and I finished walking west of printing business on the Friday and started the university and the Monday at the rape old age of 27 a za material student away back to school on it was great. University of the West of Scotland course is absolutely fantastic. The principal wechat off a za gentleman who is well respected in the open safety industry called Yan Malala. Yan has all really interesting and diverse background this well, it was a farm engineer on what can the agriculture industry. Before moving on, the safety guy really enjoyed some of the courses he presented to us as part of the university degree on. Actually told that story they are there was asked to go back and speak to the new entrance. Students is one of the I want my to the course. Told him about information about how I had found the course and some of the stuff that I've done. I said absolutely 80. The science part of the course way studied this part of the course called analytical measuring, which was theoretical chemistry. I can assign space said over on. But if I said. When I was a skilled, I wasn't very academical. I would probably be doing myself. I myself the service. I didn't really particularly enjoy skill if there was something more interesting happening, like going the shopping, Our kid disappeared over the fence at once time and not come back. Eso It was a real challenge for me to try and teach myself the science. Say the things on I checked and I screamed on about. Then I said, I'm never gonna use this and understand what it is that's got to the health and safety that is driving me up the wall. I went and I got additional help. I got myself a shooter on. I learned that we also had a great network, had some fantastic people at university with me who were all can adult entrance. A lot of them were walking on industry on one or two of them deserve a mention here that the guy called Matt or on another guy called calling Hargraves, who are very influential. You mean on we found out that study good support drama. Colin is now just about to become an independent state inspector for the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority in the UK, which is quite highly regulated rule. He's going on the regulator now. Great guy. Absolutely fantastic person on a friend and a colleague. Um, so we all kind of what together and mocked and battled through the science part over. And I came out with a 96% on my exam on booth exam stage one. That was a They achieved that it was something that I really so right. I'll never used us. I've done it. I've put my my idea better. I've got there e o on.
[00:39:41] spk_1: And then you have to calculate breakthrough rates for PPE and then you have to learn of
[00:39:46] spk_0: the O about keep that in mind will come back to the o. E. So I moved on from I was studying at university and the guy that I mentioned Matthew, um, he worked for the business called Land Engineering. Unfortunately, I'm no longer treating anymore Fantastic company again. Big several engineering business and Scotland on Dean while walking on some great super projects at the same one. That Saxo Team he was a new South Classical hospital project that was being managed by a first. It's called multiplex, who are big Australian fat. Um, but the super project specifically on we were working as a subcontractor on the project, but it was the best managed construction site that I have ever been on s o. I got the opportunity through Matthew to do About what? What a Zykina walk placement? Because I had that ambition to get into the construction industry. So I went to what? Gotham, Um, at one Engineering. And we walked on Lords of different sites. That new South Glasgow Hospital project was just one of many projects that were walking were also walking on a windless project, which was the Strathclyde Technology and Innovation Center, which was affectionately known as the tech building. Okay, a on eating £8 million construction project A a new part of the Strathclyde University campus. The hospital project that I mentioned with multiplex was on 880 million U T pounds project. Just to give you an idea of this get over. It was a new super hospital on Children's Hospital on the sofa guys to go, uh, no. Known as the Queen Elizabeth Hospital. So that was a fantastic can exposure to the construction industry. Really enjoyed my walk there. What can A lot of different projects went back to university after the camera went off? Break over Christmas. Complete my exams in the city. Great Nina could do you know about here? So I stopped walking on land Engineering. Had about your gap on Bond, walked on my university academical walk as a Mac and isil Focus, knuckle down and study tab for my end of year exams. On past thermal buying clothes on, I got a great opportunity to go and work with another construction business called The Robots and Good, who are one of the biggest privately owned construction companies in the UK on day were walking on woods of definite stuff that that name again huge big super projects. They had a project called the new McAllen. This study on Viz It'll center, which was the first subterranean study on the world E under me. How, yes, it's all underground. It's absolutely fascinating if you get the chance, look it up on the on that It's a place called Together Key. Are we in the Scottish Highlands? And it's but absolutely fantastic Project, and I was there right at the start over on when they were doing a lot of the many walkers. Will I What? All around Scotland worth of the robots and getting experience. And I got to what? We are really great guy. I got the opportunity. What? We're gentleman called Marie Province. Murray had been on HSC inspector for 20 years, so he walked for the regulator. The construction inspector they had first fully Jesse on. I wonder what walking my money was really influential in my early career. Ah, lot of the great experience that I've got no was driven off of the back of some of the information he provided me with. E got to ask him all the We have the wonderful questions you would love to ask the regulator, but
[00:44:02] spk_1: maybe it doesn't ever have been the chance from the opportunity. You don't want to get cited, so you can't ask. Yeah, that's great.
[00:44:10] spk_0: That was fantastic experience from Yellen material on director. The safety at that point was a guy called Ken Mullah. Um Ken, Brilliant Director safety came from a very strong housebroken background, but had then taken up the rollers direct over the Robertson Group, which also had a houseboat numb on get code on his office one day and he said, I've got a new job for you. E said Okay, What is it? They said you're gonna look after all off the residential construction businesses. Oh, no. What have you done to me?
[00:44:52] spk_1: Um, now comes all that calculation when you have to start thinking about full protection and everything else. Well,
[00:45:00] spk_0: at that time, the true. But this is, um, well seen. A off can have difficult area. What class on the other can overrating. Thing was, I didn't understand how fast piece they were about them, but having walked Latham, residential construction is looked down a little, but by the canal, commercial construction people in the UK they call that house bashing or knocking houses. You build the same product over and over again, we owe There's a hierarchical system, a commercial construction people. But housebuilding is one of the most fast paced industries that have ever walked on. Yeah, the reason being is such a high risk because you build a new housing development. The business that you're walking for her put all of the money up front to pay for the planning permission. The purchase of the land. So they're looking for speed to get a national investment back. So they want the houses built really quickly. Thea Other thing that they want as to move people and you're saying so you're saying it's constantly evolving because if you, both 12 houses on the first sex are ready, they're occupied was on will move the fence line back. So you're introducing that additional hazard that you don't get that commercial project on a commercial project. You come up at the start of the site. You set a fencing up all the way around the steak, and it's a secure environment. No, no, there's eventual, say, on a residential state. You have the family coming on to the site to look at the house that they want to buy, and they're trying to sneak around the fence and come in and have a eso really fast paced, really enjoyable. What's a different tasks associated with that is we're working at it from the connected marks on starting a whole can a development off maybe three or 400 units, putting then the roads and seals on the infrastructure to support the water runoff for that as well as then constructed off the floor slab level on. Then the Robertson Group have a member engineering manufacturing business as well within the group that they build over the houses out of timber frame so they would develop the timber frames off site on. They were absolutely experts constructing these houses saw they could construct that cap number, house cat, and one day on you could have it when the watertight on one month you would have more with jeans or walking on. Then you're looking at multiple sites all across the UK Also had one of the business is a business called Robots and Partnership. Holmes was in its infancy at that stage, taking about your loan off the business. Thio shut up and they're gonna back seven point was that the created social housing So housing on councils and housing associations for affordable rent for families to move, enter a yeah, apartment buildings, houses awoken. I definitely each development was definitely They also had specialist accessible hoses for people that had disabilities, um, such as wheelchair accessible houses and things along those wings. So they really developed they were bag projects and what they're selling point was they would find a package o on on Go thio the local council and say we in Belgium as many houses for this much cost. And that's much time skill, which was about your novel approach and the local councils absolutely back hand off to get them through the door. Yeah, develop those houses and then really start to build them up from there.
[00:49:10] spk_1: And you're over the whole safety and health of that division At that point, yeah. Did you have anybody underneath? You
[00:49:17] spk_0: know, me myself. And I envision, you know, the president's walking through over a great support network above me and can be in the director on Then I grew up safety manager. There is where we support. So that was that was the set up at that time. So start at university, studying through that and really walking across all of those sites. Can you know all the institute The next investigations? As I said, giving them support inspected the states, making sure that the states, without the standard on really important revel of engaging with the contractors as well on site on engaging with the management team, any of the current issues with what to call them out on Robertson's had an excellent safety record than the UK that are fantastic business and I really, really enjoyed my time there.
[00:50:08] spk_1: There were a great company to
[00:50:09] spk_0: work for. They were really great on the training and development. Say the things they nothing was an object that only would develop you through, put you on a different courses. Three and you're in the UK get you on different sites and walking with definite safety managers and
[00:50:27] spk_1: really
[00:50:28] spk_0: getting that additional experience because they really have that grasp on. If you get someone into the business and movement the way that we do things around here, give them the information and give them the right experiences that will stand
[00:50:40] spk_1: them in good stead. Coming through the on map, making any over business so organized, you can control them. This'll episode has been powered by Safety. FM
[00:00:02] spk_1: this'll episode is powered by Safety FM. Tha s welcome to the safety consultant Podcast. I am your host, Sheldon. Promise Thistles. The podcast where I teach you the business of being a safety consultant. Well, this week we're gonna have an interview in our interview. We're going to be interviewing with Mr Blair Boyd of Scotland. E think you'll be able to tell by the accent what we do? Talk. So Blair was really kind Thio do this interview with me. It was late in the night for him, and he is a chartered health and safety practitioner, and he definitely works closely with business leaders engaged in all level of the workforce. Throughout our conversation, we talked about how he has worked and basically came up in the system and was managing multi multi multiple people in areas of not only doing their inspection, doing some of the employees, uh, interaction with management and management interaction. So he was the liaison between them helping them with all their working relationships, and truly he has a a very great mind for those regulatory things in the UK. So he was helping me understand some of the rules and basically how for me as a U S based consultant, how those rules for OSHA kind of meets up with some of the UK rules. And truly, even though my business is international, I haven't really done ah bunch of work in the U. K. So it was great for me to get a good foundation. So his Blair was going through his his pathway into safety and health. We also touched on a few other topics related to regulation culture. And he talked about the culture of one company that he worked for, where he was the safety and health Seoul officer of the construction of residential construction area aspect of the company. So that was, like, really excellent. So this week, we're not going to do a tip of the week. We're just gonna get right into the episode with Blair. No sponsors on this one as well. So it's just gonna be being Blair were talking. And then right after, we're just gonna end the episode, and then next Thursday, they're actually this Thursday, we'll complete the rest of this episode. So you're gonna have Blair Boyd for two episodes this week. So without any further ado, let's go ahead and let's bring Blair into the conversation that we're gonna have and go get him next this week. Tell us everything about Blair.
[00:03:08] spk_0: Okay? I've just in about So my name is Blair Boyd have been in safety for number of years. Now, I dread to think how many years it's been a few scale works here. I think that started the printing industry assay young, fresh, faced, fresh out of school, that young and a But were you trying to walk out my way in the world on Guy started There was a trainee on progress through that pretty quickly. Had a really great management. I get called Stephen Girl on, but I still keep in touch yesterday on E he said I know how to kill you. Oh, yeah, way would behavior. I'm going to give me a lot of responsibility. Andi, get you progressing through the ranks a little bit. So I got the dubious owner off becoming the forklift trainer. Uh um put it in the four class on, say, and I was only 1920 years old at that stage. I was training guys twice my age, sometimes on how you opened it for laughs, and that kind of sparked my interest. Never been safety. Then I got a really great opportunity. Came my way. Manager had paid to go on the Irish, managing safely calls on. He decided a couple of days before that. They don't really fancy on rather than waste the money, did they say, Did they send me on a E? I was going on this health and safety course on. I thought right. Okay, that should be interesting. So I went along the course on, but that was absolutely born away. They were talking about hazards and risks. And what place? Safety and all that great stuff. And I'm thinking, Wow, people get paid to do this for the loving. That's just what I want. Todo really inspired off the back, of course. And that was with all the passion and the drive came from to get involved in, Uh, so
[00:05:12] spk_1: that means a safety star was born at that moment. You had a little spark that came?
[00:05:18] spk_0: Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. It was interesting. Get their information from that. And then Seattle your path that could be mapped out from that. Yeah. So
[00:05:30] spk_1: hold on. before you go any more people might just kind of guessed by the accent that you're maybe not native to the U S and eso Don't forget that part. Tell them where you from, where you're from And, uh, and your your background there is. Well,
[00:05:45] spk_0: okay, so I'm from Jacksonville and Florida. Good jags? No, not really. So I'm from Glasgow and Scotland, which is in the UK
[00:05:59] spk_1: Great, Great, because I have an international audience. So I know that some people will recognize right away the accent and some people will, uh, they'll think like, Oh, man, that's a real Scottish guy in the States and they don't know that you're you're presently, you know, in Scotland. And were you born and raised there is Well,
[00:06:16] spk_0: yes, yes, I was. Yeah, that would place called Clay Bank, which has a big industrial heritage. It was famous for building ships on building suing machines like Mr Boils. And the tone was tangles Swing machines, which waas American Company on John Brown's shipbuilding, which built some of the most luxurious ocean going liners, Azarias battleships in the world. One of the one of the famous ships is on their long beach in California. It's called the Queen Mary. Map was built in clay banks on that of a played s
[00:07:00] spk_1: so familiar. Yeah, Yeah, that really sounds familiar. Was that inaction with one of the World Wars?
[00:07:09] spk_0: Yes. I believe it was a trip carrying ship in the second World War.
[00:07:14] spk_1: That's probably where I remember, because I the name just just stands out. As as I should know this, uh,
[00:07:24] spk_0: also the key to was built in clay bank, the Queen Elizabeth two, whose vote for the King are blaming Clear Bank in the sixties. It's no doc under by on its being converted into a luxury hotel on the by now, but also about on the played by one of the best ship building houses in the world, which was John Brown's. It's no longer there just a lock in our political history way. Could probably felt to podcasts wealth if we went into, But yeah, that zone. So what? Uh, safety was a little based around Glasgow being a big industrial place, you'll find that the West of Scotland has probably one of the highest memberships over the IR branches UK.
[00:08:14] spk_1: It's like 1200.
[00:08:16] spk_0: Yeah, there's only 1200 member. That z a big problem for structure a small part of the UK. Yeah,
[00:08:25] spk_1: No kidding. And that's really just a chapter. It's not like it's many chapters. You got one chapter?
[00:08:31] spk_0: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:32] spk_1: Wow. Well, give me your keep going with your journey, cause I do want to talk about I osh If I can't after you're done with that. So I left you when you first started getting into safety. You landed a great job after that. And s So what happened?
[00:08:48] spk_0: Yeah. So I got my fox. Came that interest on the construction industry. We carried out a project to set up a d S n before the central with the popular things that they are. No, because the printing business that what for was a ball on business, thereby financial business Eso way set up. That's the same time we had contractors and walking. So I want a lot of chefs cannot helping out the contractors, giving them support, driving a footbath, giving them, actually not permits and doing things like that just came out looking after the morning. See, walking a lot of different chefs is really bad. Chef. The nature on. I progressed pretty well through that rule. I really enjoyed it for us. It's really interesting that I like to see the things on. We installed a huge bag in an uninterruptible power supply is well, Thio power up the data center left. The power went off, which was really interesting. I think that's either things fast and eating. And
[00:09:52] spk_1: was that all like a backup generator scenario? Or is it coming
[00:09:56] spk_0: from you big backup generator? Oh, there's realized. Beat us in on. Can a battery set off his way over the A poster place? You could have 30 minutes on the path of these forward by the generator catching and take on. Definitely. That's
[00:10:14] spk_1: such detailed work. Because even with those generators, you got to know if you want, you know, randomly round versus uh, what? When I say wound. I mean, theatrical, uh, I guess the coils inside the generator would that be, uh, what is? I remember having a seaman's generator, and I believe that was when your past companies, but, uh, I was a plant manager at a wastewater treatment plant and we're upgrading all our switch gears. And we had a seaman's guy come in. And hey, just was a brilliant electrical engineer and all the different things he was teaching me about that and about the generators. And I didn't know there was just that much more Tiu figure out. So? So I could only imagine the integral and technical things that you had to just learn as you're doing that job.
[00:11:05] spk_0: Yeah, yeah, it was really interesting. Especially getting the command office for the tradesmen and understanding how day while operating and how they carried out the tasks you get. What can I face time with them and talk to him about it. So it was really interesting things. So I came to progressed on with that and then went back to my my normal rule with health and safety is an additional role on they were going to get me a full time safety managers role that came there where I was transitioning toe on. I was laying off the corner university degree as a daily student, this part off my road after completing the neighbor general, South Africa, which is akin a general health and safety qualification in the UK It's known for the they can I mean one unemployed. A look for you. Look for the knee boss general certificate on. Then you look at the higher level qualifications, such as the knee Bush diploma or a degree level qualification. That's the kingdom's standard. There's also another bridge, which is killed on the job training. Rick called UH N V Q, which is a national vocational qualification on a total common, actually assess you carrying out the job on, then certify you as a certified professional problem. And
[00:12:28] spk_1: does it have a safety component as well?
[00:12:31] spk_0: Yes, yes, so that that's the health and safety qualification as well. Okay, you can, in overall as a health and safety practitioner on demonstrating that by providing the evidence by. But there's also the new Bush diploma on. The dignity cannot root center. So they've all got thank differences on that all valued at the same level what the construction as in the UK that people work for us to go through the levels of Irish. So for technical membership, you would normally have a new boss General South Africa. If you want to move up to graduate level, you would will commit one of those higher level qualifications. Um, such as the M P. Q. The degree all the knee bush diploma on, then moving through from there. You would then be able Thio be eligible. Thio Undertake one of the tourists through the Irish accreditation to become a chart off health and safety professional. Because I always use a chapel body have been ascent by Royal Charter on that they can have a chart of accreditation for health and safety professionals. I believe it's the only one in the world that's got the royal chapter.
[00:13:49] spk_1: That's awesome. I am. See for us in in the U. S side. We really, um I get this question all the time from people wanna be, uh, safety consultants, because that's pretty much my bulk of my audience are. Either They're practicing practicing safety officers. That air get the thought of Oh, yes. Someday I'm gonna go start my own safety consulting business or I have people who have already started their safety consulting business, so I'm helping them along that path. But I do get that question a lot for my students about what's the path to, uh, they don't say it this way, But the idea is so I could prove that I have some safety and health like chops, knowledge, understanding. And they're looking for letters behind their names, so they want some sort of certification. So I'm always answering that question, and I just didn't know how I would approach it on an international level. And I knew me. Bosch and I was very aware of that. I didn't know about, uh, well for the ISO 45,000 and one, you know, to be auditor and the lead auditor. But from from that aspect, that's really all I knew. So hearing about the different certifications that you guys were using there, and I don't know if that's ah UK specific thing or do you see it also in the African countries and maybe even
[00:15:13] spk_0: a Yeah. I also is a national membership organization so you can attend in any country in the world. As long as you can demonstrate that you felt the criteria on, then if you want to become chart off, you go through one of the on actual professional development processes, either providing the skills development portfolio or carrying out the examination based accreditation believe I ocean on the walks at the moment off, potentially change in some of the leading structures. Aunt also introducing, uh, to prove experiential whelming code on it, which is accreditation for prior experiential whelming on. That's gonna goto with the Irish members at the next G m. Whether these changes are gonna be ratified, then progress through next year.
[00:16:07] spk_1: Excellent. Well, for those that are familiar with Ayyash, can you add Tell him the acronym and the actual, uh, the meaning of the acronym.
[00:16:18] spk_0: Sure. So I also is the institution off Occupational safety and health. On it was a UK based organization that are charitable organization that work for the betterment of occupational safety and health internationally on the sponsor, a water research and to health and safety and developing systems processes, as well as providing that can a member network across the world that's based on a branch model that the branches Aziz, you call them in the U. S. Chapels each meet um, on a frequent basis. They'll have a guest speaker come along who then pervade continuous professional development to remembers by presenting some of the things that has a subject matter expertise, they'll have some of the branch business, such as the Kanak Committee walks and how each of the on enacting groups like the construction group probably industry Group permit nationally and the casket some of that information on it. It's mostly run by volunteers with a full team. Can a regional managers the Port Branch network? So it's a great organization. They do some fantastic work internationally on. I would highly recommend anyone wasn't the podcast they say not become an Irish member.
[00:17:48] spk_1: Excellent. I get the newsletters in the email, and every time I read those emails and I'm seeing the penalties and then jail time and I'm like What? Not only the getting penalties over there, but we're getting jail time, too, and the U. S We don't really have that with with our OSHA regulations or everything. So it's really eye opening when I see that because I do have an international business. But generally when I do work outside of the U. S, it's either in the Caribbean or Canada s Oh, I'm still considered international, but I do some work. Uh, I haven't gone over quite too far over the pond, as they say. You know, I'm willing Thio now I'm willing to. So that's why you're You're like I'm soaking information. Everything you're telling me Blair is just, you know, I'm like a sponge. Just, you know, getting this thing in. So that's excellent for for everyone's purposes,
[00:18:46] spk_0: go ahead, go ahead. That was probably one of the biggest changes and legislation on the UK coming in with a corporate manslaughter corporate homicide. Um, can a scenario that's no cumin, a war that the controlling minds often organization off the director feel like oven organization? Can they be personally prosecuted for a it work? And they could face a charge off corporate home asi corporate manslaughter that they've corporately code someone
[00:19:22] spk_1: Wow and e no, this is going to probably be a little technical per se, but I know with the UK, Scotland, even England with Brexit how does this all work together? Where if there is a mandate is a coming us? Where is it coming from? Ah, UK version Or how is this? How is it structured, if you will for for me not knowing the structure right
[00:19:54] spk_0: now. So Waas Uh ah What are the health and safety was in the UK are based on European law. There was an introduction I think a few years ago, called the sex pack off regulations. And that was the management of health and safety. What regulations, manual handling operations, regulations display screen equipment regulations, the workplace, health, safety and welfare regulations, as well as the provision and use of work equipment regulations on the personal protective equipment. Regulations on each of these regulations were based in European law on not common across all of Europe. What happened was the European Parliament proposes these laws and then the ratified by each of the member states. But they're adopting into that country's law. So Brexit about can Tara how that's all gonna work going forward. Um, but some of the some of the best they open safety orders in the UK have come from Europe and come from some of the arrangements that came through the European Union.
[00:21:10] spk_1: Well, you know, I'm one of these regulation, uh, specialists for OSHA, so I know that, but getting getting a little idea of other laws and other things because truly, when I tell people when they're starting their own safety consulting business, I say you probably might want to start a regulation first before you could get to culture because most people they can't even get past the rags before they could get into safety. Culture.
[00:21:38] spk_0: Get baby Great Foster. Definitely definitely eso for your complying with the war as a minimum
[00:21:48] spk_1: A is though you're seeing That was about that eyes that the same for you. Then you're seeing that as well.
[00:21:55] spk_0: Yeah. Oh, cool. And yeah, yeah, yeah, one on one. And the UK is Thio to make sure that you can play with the law in the first instance before you get on some of the fancy or stuff like cultural development and cultural model in and human performance and bringing those aspects. And yet you need to make sure that you've got your business protected first and foremost, you're developing to make sure that you comply with the laws and absolute baseline minimum
[00:22:26] spk_1: that makes sense. And, uh, I know you. You you have some some laws that you wanted thio kinda help us come to speed with. And, uh and I think just just listening to the inception of some of these rules. It is truly amazing because for us in 71 is when OSHA the administration started, But the act was in 1970 truly it was just, you know, Congress was forced in that way, saying Alright, country got fed up with all the injuries and illnesses. I believe it was like 45 a day or something similar to that at that time. So that's what pushed the catalyst to pushing OSHA out. So what was some of the catalysts in in, you know, the the UK that you know said all right, enough's enough. We need some rules,
[00:23:18] spk_0: Sure. So from 1961 to 1970 1200 people were being killed. Every year, 1200 people every year from 1961 to 1970 on the UK recognized a Zain Asher on the appointed a gentleman called Alfred Robbins, who was also known as Bad in Robin's off warding Ham on. He was appointed Thio carry out at the view and to health and safety what he came from a background that he tried to be prime minister at one time. Hey was a trade unionist. Onda labor politician has always been an industrialist on duty. Poor timing you never managed to create attend the role of Prime Minister had quite a significant role in the national cool. Andi carried out this report and what was happening on industry that was causing all of these issues. And we don't people being in jail. Much of the law at the team in the UK was obscured on unintelligible. There was a hot house of mass of legislation. E took it in detail, difficulty amend and frequently a Aziz. Well, there was various enforcement agencies that overlapping jurisdictions, and that's caused a lot of confusion. You had instead of having one regulator the body, for example, you had the factories inspectors to inspect the factory premises on. Then you had environmental health who went out places that retail things like food as well as came the drops a swell. So there was a overlapping jurisdiction. Now one of the main conclusions Lord Robbins report was there was one single cause above all else for all these accidents, and that will heal foot watch. And it was apathy on, he said the very famous quote into the report. There was apathy at the top. Apathy at the medal, Mathea at the bottom of industry. I think that stuff up there, what are the issues that we see? I don't have to say. Yeah,
[00:25:36] spk_1: absolutely. I mean, uh, that's like one of the things when I do like a mock OSHA inspection. And truly I look for the technical stuff. But when I'm introducing are talking to an interviewing with people and just you could tell you get a general sense from a organization that some of these workers air completely tuned out there. Just management completely tuned out. And I count, that is being apathy to
[00:26:09] spk_0: Yeah, Yeah, definitely, definitely one of sort of some court stuff. I've kept on no off because I love some of the language that some of these reviews have written. Um, that's presented by some of the really clever people that have been politicians that carry out some of these review panels on whiled. Robbins went on to found the Health and Safety at Work Act in 1974 which is the underpinning law off UK health and safety. Um, it's called quite predominantly. The pay didn't act. It's an act of parliament that ratifies a few things until war. This is This is this is our basically that's just where we're walking from on day. One of the things that I took from the report that God, I will know a few does room. The Robbins report had far reaching proposals devised. A system whereby own employees on employers became aware the health and safety was a concern for everyone on there should be ownership off health and safety. So one of the courses of present system encourages too much reminds on state regulation on rather too, on personal responsibility and voluntary self generating effort. Uh,
[00:27:41] spk_1: does that mean that they have, uh, Justus the thought? Does that mean that they also have personal culpability for people where not only can the company get fined, but an individual can get fined?
[00:27:55] spk_0: Yep. So there's duties for employees under the health and safety at Work Act is whereas the employer. So if you do something wilfully or recklessly on the course of your employment that leads to you or someone else being injured, you could personally be prosecuted on. This is an act of parliament, so you could be prosecuted on the camera war. Wow. Just eventually I find there's also the more city smart other gun on standing in front of economical judge.
[00:28:23] spk_1: Wow. Okay, because what? You started talking about that. And it makes perfect sense that everyone has to think of their own personal safety for themselves and for their coworkers, as opposed to just leaning on Theis employer. So I'm glad that that, you know, there's working in that in the rules. And that was 74. You said? Yeah. So it was even after our OSHA.
[00:28:47] spk_0: Yeah, on then. Some of the other quotes from the report where the suggestion that there is a need for a single comprehensive framework legislation which would cover all work activity supported and supplemented by a syriza control state detail waas specific problems assess. It'd be voluntary standards on more flexible codes of practice. A approved code of practice, which is released in the UK, has under a quasi legal status that if you can demonstrate that you achieve the same thing by other means, then all well and good if you can that they get it will use their proof called the Practice to demonstrate how you should have done a part of the prosecution. Oh,
[00:29:40] spk_1: wow. Now that xylitol novel, because truly, um, what we're seeing with the OSHA rags and OSHA is over. Um, there over industry general industry construction. Uh, then also they have agriculture and maritime. So general industry, of course, is the biggest one. That's where you have pretty much anything from manufacturing to warehousing to retail thio. Anything that is going to not have a construction egg or maritime component falls into that general industry, so they don't have flexibility. And most things with with getting you get to the end results, regardless of how you do it. You follow this rule every once in a while, you see, they call them a performance standards, which, like, for instance, if they say you have to have a competent person on your job site. They don't tell you how this person becomes competent. But the rule says you have to have the competent person to do inspectors and everything else. It's up to you how you decide that they're competent, But other than that, if they set a rule on certain standards, they don't. They don't generally don't say generally allow you thio deviate from the base rules, even if you could prove that that you have the same result. Unless you do some sort of you asked for some sort of waiver and There's no special permissions for that. But it's usually industrywide.
[00:31:11] spk_0: Yeah, very interesting. Really. Enter. Take on. It s so if you want to lunch back and you're Johnny with only a couple of doctor fio. Yeah,
[00:31:27] spk_1: yeah, yeah. You see my mind just a soon as I hear things, you know, It's like, you know, I jump on somewhere. I gotta now tunnel, You know, you kind of rain me in there. Come on, just rein me in E tell us a little
[00:31:39] spk_0: bit more eso I've got Thio that the business that I was walking for at the time wanted to meet you. Look it moving in your field team health and safety at all On. I got the great often off. Let's get you to study at degree on health and safety. We'll pay for a more give you time off. What? They're going to study. Here it is. Thank you. This is exactly where I want. It s so I applied for the police at university. I got it all sorted out. I got a little the form signed on. I just needed the director's signature on last piece of paper on the funds would be released and be called the universe's On on Monday morning a Gin July sorting Madrid July A couple of weeks before I was due to start my place in university E walked in to an office on of building on. There was a note old personnel worked within the 2 p.m. Meeting on the canteen thing. This is about strange on. We'll go to the canteen, uh, 2 p.m. On all of the directors chip comment way. Have some bad news We're not gonna miss. You got quarter. There's going to be the potential, but the printing section of this business will be out. So to have another organization on those the potential for everybody here to be made redundant. Uh, wow, at this point, I've been here for 10 years. That was my first full time job after leaving school s Oh, what am I gonna do next? So we were told that we would be would pastor on giving a redundancy package, Um, but dragged on for more than a year that we would end up notice or redundancy which led to create I don't happen. Atmosphere over 100 came on Gamble waiting to move on s fast forward through that a little bit. I decided that doesn't have enough health and safety experience. So say that's feed operation to be considered a general practitioner. So I decided to go out there and get myself a much experience is a good E. I met a gentleman who stole them in my friend. I mean, no Gay called William Vestal Willy because a brilliant gay, the next airport fireman on he had just left the airport fire brigade and put themselves through the same degree that I wanted to go and study at the University of the West of Scotland s a very well respected health and safety degree program. And we'll touch a little bit on that. We're gonna talk a little bit more detail about, uh well, well, they had set up his own consultancy business on training business called Max. If solutions was quite small at the time, It's not the size of the organization now. He was just like in a start up, that that thing on, I asked him for some walk experience and he said Yes, let me go. What? You see, some of the states he was working on at that time he was consultant to have written from Ah, Funeral power on down a little bit Digestion plan right through thio vehicle. We finish in workshops, maintenance places, construction businesses you name it. He was consulting Thio Funeral directors are probably some of the most people have a built worth for practical jokes and think that
[00:35:35] spk_1: I can remember going to the
[00:35:36] spk_0: funeral home. We talked to them about the chemical control and putting a cost risk assessment and place when for the chemicals that they had on say on and I walked into the actual Parle on there was a new empty coffin on the CD. Typically, about your practical joke on me and jump. Don't scared me on You could have scraped me off of the ceiling at that point a going alright eso got some great experiences But what done was what we were they from Can I eight o'clock every morning up until one o'clock And then from there I went back to walk on the front and side from two pm at 10 p.m. S. I was walking masses arrivals to get that experience often really, really in my class from there I managed to get my place at university and I finished walking west of printing business on the Friday and started the university and the Monday at the rape old age of 27 a za material student away back to school on it was great. University of the West of Scotland course is absolutely fantastic. The principal wechat off a za gentleman who is well respected in the open safety industry called Yan Malala. Yan has all really interesting and diverse background this well, it was a farm engineer on what can the agriculture industry. Before moving on, the safety guy really enjoyed some of the courses he presented to us as part of the university degree on. Actually told that story they are there was asked to go back and speak to the new entrance. Students is one of the I want my to the course. Told him about information about how I had found the course and some of the stuff that I've done. I said absolutely 80. The science part of the course way studied this part of the course called analytical measuring, which was theoretical chemistry. I can assign space said over on. But if I said. When I was a skilled, I wasn't very academical. I would probably be doing myself. I myself the service. I didn't really particularly enjoy skill if there was something more interesting happening, like going the shopping, Our kid disappeared over the fence at once time and not come back. Eso It was a real challenge for me to try and teach myself the science. Say the things on I checked and I screamed on about. Then I said, I'm never gonna use this and understand what it is that's got to the health and safety that is driving me up the wall. I went and I got additional help. I got myself a shooter on. I learned that we also had a great network, had some fantastic people at university with me who were all can adult entrance. A lot of them were walking on industry on one or two of them deserve a mention here that the guy called Matt or on another guy called calling Hargraves, who are very influential. You mean on we found out that study good support drama. Colin is now just about to become an independent state inspector for the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority in the UK, which is quite highly regulated rule. He's going on the regulator now. Great guy. Absolutely fantastic person on a friend and a colleague. Um, so we all kind of what together and mocked and battled through the science part over. And I came out with a 96% on my exam on booth exam stage one. That was a They achieved that it was something that I really so right. I'll never used us. I've done it. I've put my my idea better. I've got there e o on.
[00:39:41] spk_1: And then you have to calculate breakthrough rates for PPE and then you have to learn of
[00:39:46] spk_0: the O about keep that in mind will come back to the o. E. So I moved on from I was studying at university and the guy that I mentioned Matthew, um, he worked for the business called Land Engineering. Unfortunately, I'm no longer treating anymore Fantastic company again. Big several engineering business and Scotland on Dean while walking on some great super projects at the same one. That Saxo Team he was a new South Classical hospital project that was being managed by a first. It's called multiplex, who are big Australian fat. Um, but the super project specifically on we were working as a subcontractor on the project, but it was the best managed construction site that I have ever been on s o. I got the opportunity through Matthew to do About what? What a Zykina walk placement? Because I had that ambition to get into the construction industry. So I went to what? Gotham, Um, at one Engineering. And we walked on Lords of different sites. That new South Glasgow Hospital project was just one of many projects that were walking were also walking on a windless project, which was the Strathclyde Technology and Innovation Center, which was affectionately known as the tech building. Okay, a on eating £8 million construction project A a new part of the Strathclyde University campus. The hospital project that I mentioned with multiplex was on 880 million U T pounds project. Just to give you an idea of this get over. It was a new super hospital on Children's Hospital on the sofa guys to go, uh, no. Known as the Queen Elizabeth Hospital. So that was a fantastic can exposure to the construction industry. Really enjoyed my walk there. What can A lot of different projects went back to university after the camera went off? Break over Christmas. Complete my exams in the city. Great Nina could do you know about here? So I stopped walking on land Engineering. Had about your gap on Bond, walked on my university academical walk as a Mac and isil Focus, knuckle down and study tab for my end of year exams. On past thermal buying clothes on, I got a great opportunity to go and work with another construction business called The Robots and Good, who are one of the biggest privately owned construction companies in the UK on day were walking on woods of definite stuff that that name again huge big super projects. They had a project called the new McAllen. This study on Viz It'll center, which was the first subterranean study on the world E under me. How, yes, it's all underground. It's absolutely fascinating if you get the chance, look it up on the on that It's a place called Together Key. Are we in the Scottish Highlands? And it's but absolutely fantastic Project, and I was there right at the start over on when they were doing a lot of the many walkers. Will I What? All around Scotland worth of the robots and getting experience. And I got to what? We are really great guy. I got the opportunity. What? We're gentleman called Marie Province. Murray had been on HSC inspector for 20 years, so he walked for the regulator. The construction inspector they had first fully Jesse on. I wonder what walking my money was really influential in my early career. Ah, lot of the great experience that I've got no was driven off of the back of some of the information he provided me with. E got to ask him all the We have the wonderful questions you would love to ask the regulator, but
[00:44:02] spk_1: maybe it doesn't ever have been the chance from the opportunity. You don't want to get cited, so you can't ask. Yeah, that's great.
[00:44:10] spk_0: That was fantastic experience from Yellen material on director. The safety at that point was a guy called Ken Mullah. Um Ken, Brilliant Director safety came from a very strong housebroken background, but had then taken up the rollers direct over the Robertson Group, which also had a houseboat numb on get code on his office one day and he said, I've got a new job for you. E said Okay, What is it? They said you're gonna look after all off the residential construction businesses. Oh, no. What have you done to me?
[00:44:52] spk_1: Um, now comes all that calculation when you have to start thinking about full protection and everything else. Well,
[00:45:00] spk_0: at that time, the true. But this is, um, well seen. A off can have difficult area. What class on the other can overrating. Thing was, I didn't understand how fast piece they were about them, but having walked Latham, residential construction is looked down a little, but by the canal, commercial construction people in the UK they call that house bashing or knocking houses. You build the same product over and over again, we owe There's a hierarchical system, a commercial construction people. But housebuilding is one of the most fast paced industries that have ever walked on. Yeah, the reason being is such a high risk because you build a new housing development. The business that you're walking for her put all of the money up front to pay for the planning permission. The purchase of the land. So they're looking for speed to get a national investment back. So they want the houses built really quickly. Thea Other thing that they want as to move people and you're saying so you're saying it's constantly evolving because if you, both 12 houses on the first sex are ready, they're occupied was on will move the fence line back. So you're introducing that additional hazard that you don't get that commercial project on a commercial project. You come up at the start of the site. You set a fencing up all the way around the steak, and it's a secure environment. No, no, there's eventual, say, on a residential state. You have the family coming on to the site to look at the house that they want to buy, and they're trying to sneak around the fence and come in and have a eso really fast paced, really enjoyable. What's a different tasks associated with that is we're working at it from the connected marks on starting a whole can a development off maybe three or 400 units, putting then the roads and seals on the infrastructure to support the water runoff for that as well as then constructed off the floor slab level on. Then the Robertson Group have a member engineering manufacturing business as well within the group that they build over the houses out of timber frame so they would develop the timber frames off site on. They were absolutely experts constructing these houses saw they could construct that cap number, house cat, and one day on you could have it when the watertight on one month you would have more with jeans or walking on. Then you're looking at multiple sites all across the UK Also had one of the business is a business called Robots and Partnership. Holmes was in its infancy at that stage, taking about your loan off the business. Thio shut up and they're gonna back seven point was that the created social housing So housing on councils and housing associations for affordable rent for families to move, enter a yeah, apartment buildings, houses awoken. I definitely each development was definitely They also had specialist accessible hoses for people that had disabilities, um, such as wheelchair accessible houses and things along those wings. So they really developed they were bag projects and what they're selling point was they would find a package o on on Go thio the local council and say we in Belgium as many houses for this much cost. And that's much time skill, which was about your novel approach and the local councils absolutely back hand off to get them through the door. Yeah, develop those houses and then really start to build them up from there.
[00:49:10] spk_1: And you're over the whole safety and health of that division At that point, yeah. Did you have anybody underneath? You
[00:49:17] spk_0: know, me myself. And I envision, you know, the president's walking through over a great support network above me and can be in the director on Then I grew up safety manager. There is where we support. So that was that was the set up at that time. So start at university, studying through that and really walking across all of those sites. Can you know all the institute The next investigations? As I said, giving them support inspected the states, making sure that the states, without the standard on really important revel of engaging with the contractors as well on site on engaging with the management team, any of the current issues with what to call them out on Robertson's had an excellent safety record than the UK that are fantastic business and I really, really enjoyed my time there.
[00:50:08] spk_1: There were a great company to
[00:50:09] spk_0: work for. They were really great on the training and development. Say the things they nothing was an object that only would develop you through, put you on a different courses. Three and you're in the UK get you on different sites and walking with definite safety managers and
[00:50:27] spk_1: really
[00:50:28] spk_0: getting that additional experience because they really have that grasp on. If you get someone into the business and movement the way that we do things around here, give them the information and give them the right experiences that will stand
[00:50:40] spk_1: them in good stead. Coming through the on map, making any over business so organized, you can control them. This'll episode has been powered by Safety. FM
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