Property Podcast
How To Go From Flipping 1 Property to 16 With Vivienne Halliday
June 6, 2021
Vivienne Halliday is a passionate property developer. With 16 renovations under her belt, there’s not much she hasn't seen during a reno. In this episode she bestows us with her wisdom, as we follow her journey from growing up in New Zealand, to escaping the high interest rates that almost sent her broke.
We hear about the predicaments she’s found herself in over the years, like accidentally renting a property to a biker gang, as well as her tips and tricks to picking a property that will give you at least a 10% turn over. All that and more on this episode of property Investory.

Timestamps:
00:04:39 | Open fields and sunset cricket
00:07:45 | Glass doors and open sores
00:10:25 | Working mum, Studying mum
00:15:41 | The inception of her property journey
00:23:06 | Dedication isn't always pretty
00:27:53 | The criteria: 10% returns and space to grow
 
Resources and Links:

Transcript:

Vivienne Halliday 
[00:20:42] And this is the value of education, knowing what I know now like I would have kept up with those houses and would have been able to. But at that time, you went to the bank, and the bank told you what you had to do. 

*START INTRO MUSIC*

Tyrone Shum:
This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies. 

I’m Tyrone Shum, and in this episode, we’re talking with property developer Vivienne Halliday. We’ll start her journey in beautiful New Zealand, and follow along from her first reno to 16 properties! We learn how to get at least a 10% return on a reno, and how she dealt with the biker gang that ended up living in one of her properties. All that and more to come! 

*END INTRO*

*START BACKGROUND MUSIC*
   
Tyrone Shum:
Halliday is a passionate full time property developer and renovator, with a number of developed properties under her wing.

Vivienne Halliday   
[00:00:34] I've done probably about 16 renovations over time and about three subdivisions. And yeah, I just love property, anything to do with property, which sort of overtakes life sometimes. 


Tyrone Shum 
Wow, that’s a lot. What time frame did you complete those renovations?

Vivienne Halliday 
[00:01:16] It's been over a long time. I think it was the first house that we bought, we renovated and we kept on doing that over time. But then I got to do it pretty much full time and was doing it for other people as well. And now I sort of do it more as part of a subdivision. Seems to add an extra string to that. I love the old Queenslanders, it's my passion, old houses bringing them back to life.

Personal story / Background

Tyrone Shum  
Although Halliday would love to be renovating properties all day, her daily life focuses more on logistics.

Vivienne Halliday  
[00:02:02] It does change a lot. But normally, I get up, check emails, check what's on the market. I have KPIs that I try to keep to. And that involves sending out SMS’, talking to agents, sending out letters, and chasing up any potential properties that I find. You know, working out the feasibility, see whether they work. And on a Saturday, I try to get out and see those open homes so I can make the agents, put my face in front of them. So if they remember me, maybe they'll send me the deal.

Tyrone Shum  
Halliday was raised in a beautiful town, surrounded by open fields and mountains.

Vivienne Halliday   
[00:04:39] I grew up in New Zealand, a small country town in the middle of the North Island called Tamar Nui. Very small. It used to be a farming community. And that was a little hub for a lot of the farmers. 

Tyrone Shum
I wonder what that was like, growing up in a place like that

Vivienne Halliday
[00:05:09] We used to hop on bikes and drive around, you know, run around the place. And basically, it was come home, you know, mum used to have afternoon tea for us. And then we’d discover until it was time for tea, you know. So we'd be riding our pushbikes or going for bushwalks, or, you know, playing cricket across the road because the neighbour’s place, they had this huge, was almost like a football field in front of their place. So all the neighbourhood kids used to go there and play. So it was a lot freer than what we have here. 

Tyrone Shum 
[00:06:25] It's, it's lovely to hear that as well, too. So tell me a little bit more about your childhood growing up in New Zealand, then what was that, like? What was school like?

Vivienne Halliday 
[00:06:34] I was very, very lucky. I've walked about.. I don't know… 200 metres down the road to my school. It was a Catholic school. So it was quite restrictive in a way. But we had, we always found ways to have fun, like, it was cold in New Zealand and Taumarunui. And so like, we used to sneak out it at nighttime, and get the hose on and put it on the netball courts. And then we'd sort of like get there in the morning and they'd be ice all over the netball courts. So we’d slide all over the netball courts. And of course, the nuns were not very happy with that. But yeah, we’d find some fun things to do like that. Yeah, climbing trees and things like that my brother used to help me up and leave me up there. 

Tyrone Shum    
Her relationship with her brother was a pretty typical one, they caused each other a lot of chaos, as siblings do. 

Vivienne Halliday  
[00:07:45] He was just more mischievous than I was because he was younger and faster. And I think when I was probably about 10, mum went back to work. So I stayed home with him. And he was being cheeky with me. So I gave him a clip round the ear. Well, he chased me around the house. And he was catching me. So I shut the door behind me. And of course, he was so close that he couldn't stop. So we went straight through this glass door. And I was like, Ah, no, I am going to be in the biggest trouble ever. But surprisingly, I wasn't. Like I'd actually sort of handled the situation, he’d been cut over his head and blood everywhere. So I sort of did the right thing. Got the right neighbour in. So, I didn't get in as much trouble as I thought I would. But yeah, we got into a little bit of mischief.

Tyrone Shum   
Eventually, she moved from New Zealand to Australia. She wanted to see what opportunities she could find elsewhere. 

Vivienne Halliday   
[00:09:20] From high school, although not straight away, I actually moved over here. After I was working for a little while, I decided to do TAFE part-time and do an Advanced Diploma in accounting. And then it wasn't until my daughter was probably two that I upgraded that and five subjects that you need to upgrade, so that I could get an accountants degree. But funnily enough, I never really used it that much. I actually got a job bookkeeping and then went from there. So It's good to have that knowledge in the background.

Tyrone Shum   
It’s no secret that having kids is difficult, so how did she manage to study while she had a two-year-old? 

Vivienne Halliday   
[00:10:25] I just did it part-time. So I sort of did just one unit at a time. So over two and a half years, I got that degree done. So it was hard, but my husband used to work the night shift and so forth. And sometimes he would have a day off, just so I can get in there and cram and do what I had to. Just snippets here and snippets there, as I'm sure a lot of people have done. I don't envy anyone doing a full-time degree and working, it must be so hard.

Tyrone Shum  
She explained what her life looked like after high school and before Tafe. 

Vivienne Halliday   
[00:11:15] First job I actually did leaving school, I actually worked in a laboratory. I used to do blood tests. And because it was country, we used to do like test some horses and cows and things as well. And I used to take blood. So I remember that you'd quite often say see the guys more than the girls walk in and go, you know, it's like looking at you with terrified eyes. And you just sort of say would you like to lie down? They go oh, yes yes yes. So it was fun. It was just a small community hospital, everybody got along and everyone knew each other. And yeah, it was quite a hub in that area is probably all changed now. And then I got an offer of a job at the ANZ bank. So I was a teller there for a few years and then moved up to the bank up in Auckland.

Tyrone Shum
When she moved to Australia, she didn't find home right away

Vivienne Halliday 
[00:12:38] I have actually moved around. I moved to Melbourne first up. And I got a job there at Telstra. I used to run the little phone shop there for a while, that was when the Nokia-Erica phones were big, and the commanders and that were in those like so long ago that I'm sure that antiques now. And then my mum got sick, she'd actually moved over after me to Brisbane and so I got transferred up to Brisbane. So I was in Brisbane for quite a while until I met my husband. And he was actually down in Coffs. So I went to Coffs Harbour back to Brisbane. When we got married we actually went to Mount Iser which was his first posting with the railways. And then we went to MacKay and then back to Brisbane. 

Tyrone shum 
[13:32] what was your husband doing back then? 

Vivienne Halliday
[00:13:36] When I met him, he was just working in a service station. But he had worked in the railways for about probably eight years before that. But had to move down to Coffs, he had a previous wife who was sick, so was there and she passed away. So when I met him, we sort of thought, well, we'll come back to Brisbane and he got back into the railways again. So it was working from the railways that went out to Mount Iser. 

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Tyrone Shum
Coming up after the break we learn how Halliday was able to afford her first property

Vivienne Halliday
[00:16:46] “And that actually helped us get through and pay those ridiculous interest rates.”  

Tyrone Shum
We hear about the unpredictable side of renting your properties  

Vivienne Halliday
[00:19:24] “We actually rented that out, had a biker gang living in there for a while”  

Tyrone Shum
We learn about the criteria Halliday uses when looking for a property to flip 

Vivienne Halliday
[00:26:17] “But I always sort of look, I suppose for properties, where you can add something different to it. 

Tyrone Shum
And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

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Property journey

Tyrone Shum
Halliday says that property is a relationship business, especially during the acquisition part of the journey.

Vivienne Halliday  
[00:03:28] Even when I renovate, I'm always looking at what I'm giving back to the market and what sort of people are looking for it's that relationship of providing what they want. 
That buyers, it's the same sort of thing. What do they want? It's trying to give them what they need. And creating relationships. The acquisition part I always find tricky. It always takes a lot of time. Once you've got it. It's just a process. So getting that acquisition is definitely… I think the biggest part probably, of the journey.

Tyrone Shum   
Halliday was able to kill two birds with one stone by getting into the property game to help her mother.

Vivienne Halliday  
[00:15:41] The first property that I bought, my mother needed help with a loan back in those days, it was really hard for an older person, and she was not really old, she was only probably 40s or 50s to get a loan. So I actually went half with her in a house ticket so that she could get this house. And that was sort of, you know like she lived in it. And I just sort of pay part towards it. And we renovated that a bit. And then when we had the 17% interest rates that were horrendous. I was actually working in a hardware (store), which I loved because there was always something different every day. So that was sort of partly my interest in property. And the guy that I was working for helped us build underneath the house. So my mum had a granny flat underneath. And we rented out up top. And that actually helped us get through and pay those ridiculous interest rates. So that was my first foray into property. And we kept that property for ages. I've only sold it probably four or five years ago.

Tyrone Shum   
Although it wasn't exactly above board, the property was in a good area and it served them well.

Vivienne Halliday  
[00:17:22] It was just basically where mum wanted to live. It was a high set in that area. So not a Queenslander type. But so it was up on stamps, it was concreted underneath. And you know, it wasn't legal height, but it was actually quite comfortable. Or he had windows and sliding doors and things like that. So we didn't have to do too much to it. Obviously highly illegal, like you wouldn't get away with it today. But back then you could, everybody was doing it, councils didn't really... you know, check. And it sort of served us right, it was on the train line, you know, had access to her work, which meant when we went to sell it it was is in high demand even though it wasn't legal, people could see that it was sort of done nicely and you know, would rent or you could sort of have mum and dad and kids or whatever there.

Tyrone Shum  
After buying her first property with her mum, Halliday realised the power of building to rent for an additional income, and soon enough she got her husband on board. 

Vivienne Halliday  
[00:18:46]  When we got together he had a house in Coffs Harbour so we actually sold that and we bought one in Brisbane. And we've renovated that. It was in the era of you know, the mission Brown. So we changed it to a beautiful apricot, oh my god. I walk into a house now that's got that I’m going oh I’m so sorry for the people that bought my house. But, you know, so we started to renovate that one, and then because we moved we actually rented that out for a while. Had a biker gang living in there for a while but my dad sort of actually scared the lady off. And so she left in the biker gang with her. But that’s a whole other story. 

So we rented that and then we moved to Mount Iser, which we just lived in normal accommodation, and then we moved to McKay, where we bought another house and renovated that. And then we add a granny flat onto the back of that one that sort of started to be a bit of a pattern from there. I think. Because I'd seen when mum was at the, you know, in mums first house how much difference building that granny flat in gave us that extra income so that we could rent upstairs she could live downstairs, it was always in the back of my mind. So when we had the house in McKay, we actually built a granny flat at the back and legal this time. And we rented like my mom actually moved out. But we could rent that out if we wanted to, you know. And we had that we were in McKay for about eight years until we sold. 

And this is the value of education, knowing what I know now like I would have kept up with those houses and would have been able to. But at that time, you went to the bank, and the bank told you what you had to do. And you just did what you were told so. It's funny, like, when I look at sometimes for a house for myself, I used to go down to my mom's house and said to her, I really like to live there, you know, and this is a place on the water. And I thought I'd just like to be able to walk to the beach, it'd be lovely. And when we came down, I actually found a house in that suburb that was just right for us. So and I've done that a couple of times. So it's quite interesting. How when you sort of like stick something in your mind, it sort of works that way into reality. 

Tyrone shum 
She shares a piece of advice that she’s learned along the way

Vivienne Halliday
[00:21:45] But now I sort of realised that, yeah, be careful what you wish for. I had bought some investments along the way, but they always seem to be Dual occ or something that I could make into dual occupancy to get that two strings of income through. 

Tyrone Shum  
[00:22:13]  that really makes a huge difference to the cash flow to be able to sustain and keep these properties, especially for portfolio that you're growing. So I'm assuming there was positive cash flow, every time you bought these two off properties?

Vivienne Halliday
[00:22:29] They were close to positive, but if they weren't positive, they paid for themselves. So, when the interest rates would go up, you know, you might have a short, you know, small shorts. But most of the time, they sort of covered their own expenses. 

Tyrone Shum  
While selling renos seems glamorous, you need to do the dirty work first. And any good developer knows you might have to live in them mid-reno, which can get messy. 

Vivienne Halliday
[00:23:06] I suppose pulling out the kitchen is always tricky. But we’re campers so we sort of have all the gear, we can just sort of like, put it in another room and set it up. I actually sometimes when I've got a Queenslander that I'm renovating, I'll go and stay in it. Because I actually live down the Gold Coast now and I do all my renovating and investing in Brisbane. And sometimes it's just you know, if you put in a big day, it's really hard work to sort of getting back down to the coast just to turn around and go back up. So I will quite often have a blow-up mattress and you know, like food. As long as I've got a toilet in the shower, I'm happy. Yeah, so I can live through a reno, but not many people can. I didn't do that many with the family like rip it apart. And a lot of them, the granny flat is in a separate area. So that wasn't so bad either. So but yeah, yeah, just trying to try to organise it so you still got a bathroom function and some way to cook. 

Tyrone Shum  
While she’s flipped heaps of properties alone, she enjoys it more when she gets to work with a friend. 

Vivienne Halliday  
[00:24:38] I did a reno up Toowoomba, and if you sort of took away the part of the driving up there and back, because that wasn't fun. It was two hours up and two hours back. But I actually did that with a friend and I just love doing it with somebody, it's a lot more fun. I've done quite a few JV’s in my time, which is joint ventures, and I love doing it with other people. It's great to sort of have that feedback and not so much needing the advice, but you know, it's just fun. Just doing it with somebody else.

Tyrone Shum  
Halliday talks us through her process, from her criteria to when she sells the property. 


Vivienne Halliday 
[00:25:56] Most of my Renos have been buy, reno and hold. Although I have done some buy, reno and sell, I usually look for a 10% return. And you know, that will vary depending on the price of the house. Because obviously, you know, you don’t want to do it for nothing. But I always sort of look, I suppose for properties, where you can add something different to it, where you can make a point of difference. The Queensland are amazing because they have all these little nooks and crannies that you can add on suits and robes. Just by bringing it back to life, new kitchen, new bathroom. It makes a huge difference to the property. So I look for something that I can add different. And I always look for something that the market is looking for. So if it's in a family area, I try to make it family-friendly. If it's in like the new market, one that I just did, it was like a younger sort of more hip sort of you more professional area. So a big yard wasn't important and you know, entertaining was. That sort of thing. 

Tyrone Shum  
What exactly does Halliday look for in a property ?

Vivienne Halliday  
[00:27:53]  I have a criteria. And obviously, it's a return that I'm looking for. But I've also found that it can take a while to get a deal. But, a lot of it is mindset. I actually got a mentor, young new and a little while back, about two and a half years ago, because I was stuck. And I wasn't I wasn't moving forward, and I couldn't figure out what it was. And the mindset is so powerful. It's getting in there and knowing, well doing the do. But also focus and clarity in what you want. And those sorts of things really make the difference. It's not just the mechanics of talking to agents and things, your belief, you know, how do you find what you're looking for if you don't know what you're looking for, that sort of thing. Being laser-focused and knowing your market.

**OUTRO**

Tyrone Shum
In a future episode of Property investory, we’ll continue the conversation with Vivienne Halliday, where we’ll discuss the power of spending money to make money 

Vivienne Halliday 
[00:02:27] “friends of mine have said they wouldn't be able to sleep at night, if they, you know, had the amount of debt that I had.”

Tyrone Shum
The house that opened her eyes to the endless possibilities in property

Vivienne Halliday 
[00:04:31] Hang on a second. I can actually subdivide this and put a new mini boarding house on the back of it.

Tyrone Shum
the mindset that helped her get on top of her first mortgage 

Vivienne Halliday 
[00:19:35] Instead of putting your head in the sand and saying it's too hard. I don't know what to do. There's usually always a way out or there's always a different way of doing things that might be better.

Tyrone Shum 
And that’s next time in a future episode of Property Investory.