In this episode Lazar describes his childhood growing up in Eastern Europe, where he became the vice national tennis champion of Romania. He takes us on a journey across oceans and tennis courts, detailing how he met his mentor-to-be when he didn’t even realise who he was, the decision his parents made that turned out to be for the best, and the pitch that eventually landed him on Shark Tank Romania.

Timestamps:
00:10 | Developing Next to Nature
02:03 | From Tennis to Business
06:36 | Growing Up in Romania
11:57 | A Positive Distraction
21.12 | Focus and Discipline
17:57 | Inspirations
22:15 | Making the Move
27:58 | Delays

Resources and Links:

[00:09:36] To a certain degree, tennis was my number one priority and school was my second priority. And I remember pushing my parents to allow me to go to a high school that was specifically for sports people. In a way I was very upset that they didn't allow that at that point. Now I'm very grateful that they said no.

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with Dan Lazar, co-founder and CEO of HeroX. Hailing from Romania, what he does today is worlds away from his old life in more ways than one. Thanks to his ability to strike up a conversation as well as he could serve a ball, he bounced into property development in the time it takes to say ‘game, set, match’.

Tyrone Shum:   

Lazar came to Australia from Romania just three or four years ago, and has been making his mark on Melbourne ever since. His original aim was to become a tennis player, but a chance meeting on the court shifted his focus from nets to his property niche. He’s all about aligning his developments with his values, which always shines through.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:00:10] We do residential developments that are next to nature. So we just finalised the project that is next to the Yarra River, we call it a river scraper. We're starting out another project that is next to a park and I call it a park scraper. So we try to be as close to nature as possible just so we increase the quality of the product and the experience that we deliver for the people that go ahead and move into our developments. 

  

[00:01:03] I typically wake up at around six to eight o'clock, depending on how late I went to bed. Then I usually try to do the most important things that I have to do that day just so I can get them out of the way. 

  

[00:01:21] [I] probably work until seven to eight o'clock. At eight o'clock. I usually go to the gym for an hour until nine. [At] nine o'clock I come home [and] probably spend another three hours with family or sometimes even work from nine to 12. But yeah, I would say that I typically work more than 12 hour days.

Tyrone Shum:   

While it wasn’t that long ago in the grand scheme of things, to Lazar it feels like a lifetime ago that he had his sights set on a tennis career.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:02:03] I played tennis between the ages of 10 to 18 years old. At 18 years old, I also became the vice national champion of Romania. 

  

[00:02:14] Probably at around that time I was starting to realise that tennis only makes sense as a career if you're in the top 100. Otherwise, it's not a lucrative sort of career. You're not even breakeven, basically. 

  

[00:02:31] So due to estimating that I'm not certain, and I don't think I have strong chances to become top 100 in the world, I decided, 'Look, now that I'm finishing high school, now would be the best time to make a switch from tennis to business'. And that's what I was envisioning to do. 

  

[00:02:51] So I went and studied international business for three years. And then in the last day of university, exactly the same day that I graduated, I also opened up my first business, which was a tennis academy.

Tyrone Shum:   

He was born to a set of parents with a 25 year age gap where his father was significantly older, but it didn’t impact their relationship in the slightest.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:03:20] I grew up in Bucharest, Romania. I had two parents, [and] my parents had a big age gap between them. My father was 52 when I was born, and my mother was 27.

  

[00:03:39] In a way, I was not extremely close to my dad. But I always, even though we maybe we didn't get along, always in the best way, I always knew that I had a strong ally in him. So he was very, very clear in the fact that he would always be my partner in helping me to develop in teaching me to play tennis, or helping me to experience the world, visit different countries. 

  

[00:04:09] But I would never get anything from him if it was sort of ego driven. Maybe I wanted a watch or I wanted whatever things, he would always say no to. He would only say yes to development and always say no to the things that were ego driven, I guess.

  

[00:04:39] But I think it's better to be on the side where you probably say a little bit more no than you say yes to things like that. Just because you can send the wrong message, I guess.

  

[00:05:26] Nobody actually needs more than the basic needs to have a roof over your head and food and water. That's what you need. The rest is kind of a want. So it helps to put that in life in perspective, I guess, sometimes.

Tyrone Shum:   

His parents met at work, where his father was an engineer and his mother worked as an economist. They didn’t always have disposable income, but when they did, they made the most of it.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:06:36] Probably some of the nicest memories that I have were going on holidays, I guess. I remember my parents were extremely poor. Up until I was around seven years old, I remember that I was sleeping on a bed made out of different pieces of wood nailed together. And some pillows. 

 

[00:06:58] And a few of their investments started to pay out at around the age when I turned seven years old. And that's the point when we started to visit outside of the country sometimes and go a few times per year on holiday. And I really have fond memories of being able to experience other countries and see things from a different perspective. 

  

[00:07:23] I think, in a way, I attribute my fire and my desire to get ahead to the fact that I was able to experience in my childhood a number of things. I think it's hard to desire having a nice car, or, I don't know, driving a Lamborghini, if you've never came across anything like that. You sort of need a little bit of a taste.

 

[00:08:02] They never invested a lot in cars, so probably the nicest car that they had was a Volkswagen Passat. And they only got that when I was around 14 or 15 years old, I think. Other than that was I guess the holidays. [We] probably would go on holidays two [or] three times per year. And that was extremely, extremely valuable.

 

[00:08:27] I remember, for the first few years, we kept going to Spain. And I have very nice memories from Spain, we would visit Costa del Sol, we would visit Barcelona [and] Madrid. And to a certain degree, those are also some of my first memories because I think typically your first memories, [are], I don't know, somewhere between the ages of five to seven. So around the age of seven, eight. I remember a lot of the things that we went and visited.

Tyrone Shum:   

When it came time to focus, he split his attention between tennis and academics.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:09:36] To a certain degree, tennis was my number one priority and school was my second priority. And I remember pushing my parents to allow me to go to a high school that was specifically for sports people. In a way I was very upset that they didn't allow that at that point. Now I'm very grateful that they said no. 

  

[00:09:56] I feel like making it in tennis, you probably have a 1% to 2% chance. And if you go on the path of leaving education on a second place, you're actually wasting your potential. I think if you are going to truly make it, you're going to make it regardless of if you go to school for sports people or not. So yeah, I think that was a very smart decision on their behalf.

  

[00:10:45] I got started in to play more regularly, maybe once or twice per week at around the age of 10. However, around the age of four, my dad showed me a number of sports. So I remember skiing, ice skating, playing tennis, swimming, all of them were around the age of four years old. 

  

[00:11:05] Even though I did a few lessons of tennis at around four years old, [I] only went back to it probably at around the age of 10. For the main reason that we were living in an apartment that had a park in front, and I was always going to the park after school, riding my bike, playing soccer, things that are a bit out of the ordinary for a kids nowadays to just play all day. 

  

[00:11:35] And my parents felt like I'm wasting my potential just being in the park all day. So they took me to tennis to have more of a positive distraction, I guess. And that was a good thing. So maybe I started playing twice per week, then three times per week, then four times per week, and probably at around the high school time I started to probably play daily.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:11:57] How many hours do you think you were training then by that time?

Dan Lazar:   

[00:12:02] I would say at my peak, probably five hours [to] six hours per day. So that would be the peak of my training, which was between 16 to 18 years old.

  

[00:12:24] I was playing at one of the biggest sports clubs in Bucharest. So we had a number of coaches there. And I think, to a certain degree, even though I was training so much, and I had a lot of good results on a national level, I didn't make it to the international level, so I didn't have any ATP points, and so on. 

  

[00:12:50] However, regardless of the results that you get to tennis, I think tennis can be an amazingly positive distraction. I think I would have done a lot of stupid things unless my energy would have been focused on tennis at that age. I think I was very excited to explore things. So I think [at] 14 [I might have] started smoking because [that's what] the cool kids were doing. And I was not cool to smoking, I was cool to tennis, and I was gonna make a lot of experimental drugs. 

  

[00:13:24] So I think it's extremely, extremely important to give kids this positive distraction. It may be tennis, it may be soccer, it may be something else. But unless you give them a positive one, they may find a negative one.

Coming up after the break, he serves up the highs and lows of a career in tennis…

[00:14:22] I'd say it's probably a combination of resilience, resilience for adversity.

The way he met his mentor-to-be without even realising who he was…

Dan Lazar:   

[00:18:05] My biggest inspiration to be down on property developer comes from a guy called Andrea Carrasco.

He explains what brought him to Australia and what happened when he arrived.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:22:26] [We] kind of knew that at some point we might explore living here.

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:   

Tennis was a great outlet for him to channel his physical energy, but it had its mental benefits as well.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:14:22] I'd say it's probably a combination of resilience, resilience for adversity. Because in tennis you lose a lot. Probably Djokovic maybe has a 70% win rate or a 90% win rate, but most of the other people maybe have a 10% to 30% to 40% win rate. Therefore we need to be comfortable with losing, with picking yourself up after you lose and not giving up until the match is finished. 

  

[00:14:56] I had matches that maybe my opponent had the set five zero and 40 zero. So he would win one more point and then he would win the match. And then I would turn the match from there. So until you shake your opponent's hand, the match is not done. So you need to always be focused, always be disciplined, regardless of what the score may say.

  

[00:15:44] In business, nobody comes especially that you're not an employee, nobody comes to push you to do this. So the discipline of making a game plan and sticking with it regardless of how you feel, I think is an attribute that easily translates in the world of business.

Tyrone Shum:   

As he climbed the ranks, he found a number of factors that would have allowed him to play internationally were missing.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:16:30] One of the things that I wish the most I'd have done differently, is not really train harder, but pay more attention to what I was doing outside of training. What I was eating, how much I was sleeping, how much I was drinking. So I guess the preparation for the training I think I could have improved in my case.

  

[00:17:00] Perhaps a little bit strategy wise, I think I would have done things differently. I think having the right mentor, the right coach may make the difference for some people. So I would have probably chosen differently who I trained with. 

  

[00:17:17] I had a coach that I really, really liked. And he was inspiring me from all points of view. And I was holding him in such a high regard that I feel like I was always pushing 10% to 15% harder when I was training with him. Just because I saw him as being a successful former tennis player, successful tennis coach, a successful entrepreneur. He has hotels in Romania, a successful property developers using property development as well. 

  

[00:17:45] So having success in all areas of life was something that for me was very, very inspiring. And I just remember feeling that I was always pushing harder there when I was training with him.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:17:57] And do you think you got some of that inspiration from him to jump into business as well? Because he said that he was quite successful.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:18:05] Perhaps.

  

[00:18:05] My biggest inspiration to be down on property developer comes from a guy called Andrea Carrasco. He's probably the biggest property developer in Romania. 

  

[00:18:06] It's a funny story how I met him. I was playing paddle, which is a sport very similar to tennis, playing paddle on a court [and he] was playing next to mine. I had no idea who he was, I just hear[d] a conversation. He was asking somebody if he knows who the owner of a piece of land is. That piece of land was a big tennis academy. 

  

[00:18:34] And I overheard the conversation [and] I told him, 'Look, sorry that I was listening into your conversation. I know that owner, so I'm happy to introduce you'. Again, not having any idea who he was. That's when he was quite low profile in Romania. So nobody really knew who he was. He would not do interviews, if you Google his name [you'll] probably not find much. 

  

[00:18:55] And after the meeting, when he came to the meeting, I probably picked up that he may be a smart guy, because he came in a Mercedes S Class. And after the meeting, we were going around that piece of land and he was telling me, 'Look, this is my building. This is my skyscraper. This is my building'. And then I was like, ‘Whoa, I didn't even know that I'm here with one of the richest guys in Romania’.

  

[00:19:21] So by chance, by being, I guess, nice, and trying to help without asking for anything in exchange, I stumbled upon making a connection with a guy that actually led to a lot of my inspiration to become a property developer. 

 

[00:19:37] He was telling me about how much he was making, the issues that he's having. So it was very, very inspiring to see the behind the scenes of a company that is developing billions and billions worth of property.

They met in 2017, and continued to play together once a month or so for the next two years. After they’d built up their relationship, Lazar had a big question for his mentor.

Dan Lazar:  

[00:20:26] And in 2019, I sold my company and I went to him, and I told him, 'Look, now I have a little bit of money. I need to go into property development. Can you teach me everything that you know, and I'll give you a percentage of my property development company?' 

  

[00:20:39] And I remember, I'm sort of still embarrassed a little bit over how that was. So my knees were shaking, my voice was trembling. I was using all of the wrong words. However, he said yes. He says, 'Look, I don't want any shares of your company. I'm happy. I like you, I think you can make it, I'm happy to help you. And if at some point in your second, third or fourth deal, we might do something together. Just give me a good deal. That's it. I'm not looking to get anything right away'.

 

[00:21:12] Again, [that was] a lucky moment in a way because I feel like my pitch to him was not a good one, on how I approached it, and so on. 

  

[00:21:23] And then I shadowed him for a few months. Then I pitched my idea on Shark Tank Romania. I pitched on doing property development in Australia. And then 12 other months later, I secured my first site and I started my first development.

Tyrone Shum:   

His journey from aspiring tennis star to property developer makes sense, but what about his journey from Romania to Australia?

Dan Lazar:   

[00:22:15] One piece of the puzzle that will bring it all together: My wife is Australian. So we put this, even though her parents are Romanian, and she was living in Romania...

  

[00:22:26] [We] kind of knew that at some point we might explore living here. And what we did in 2019, we came for three months, we verified if our understanding that Australia is a good place to be living is true. And then we sold everything and then came back here and started our life again.

  

[00:23:06] She's also [a] former tennis player. So that's how we met, she came to Romania to train at this tennis academy that I was also training at.

Tyrone Shum:   

As for his career back in Romania, he was in a niche industry there as well— but not in property.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:23:51] So with the tennis club, in order to continue activity during the winter season, you need to cover your court. Most clubs cover it with an air dome. I'm not sure if you've ever seen an ad on how it looks. It's basically like a bubble that we inflate on top of the tennis courts. 

  

[00:24:14] I sold all across Romania and in Western Europe, as well. I sold these air domes that I only started to understand how they work technically and where to buy them from due to the fact that I had a tennis academy. So unless I buy these items, you can't use your tennis academy for six months per year.

  

[00:24:48] When it's minus 15 degrees outside, nobody is coming to play any tennis.

[00:25:02] There is very, very few, maybe three places here you can train indoor[s]. So most clubs have this air dome that I think was invested not not many years ago, maybe in the '80s or '90s. I don't think that there's air domes that are older than 1980. So it's, to a certain degree, quite a new product and is by far the cheapest way of covering the big area. So you can cover from tennis clubs, to soccer clubs, I've seen even a mosque, like a church inside of an aerodrome, nightclubs, even industrial facilities inside of an air dome. 

  

[00:25:40] It is a little bit different with the fact that there is pressure inside. You can't really open the door. So in a factory in the wind, you need to create some sort of a tunnel that enables you to go in a tunnel, open one door, close it, and then open the other one and go in. So it's a little bit different. But as a rough idea, it's 50 to 100 euros per square metre, so considerably cheaper than any type of construction.

  

[00:26:35] However, they have different uses. So for tennis, due to the fact you don't get as cold of a weather, nobody really can justify to buy one and to invest in one. However, there are certain arenas. There's one in Sydney, where it's covering a motocross arena. And there are a few that are for industrial use, or agriculture use. 

  

[00:27:06] So it's a product that a lot of people don't know about, but I think it will grow a lot more in popularity. And even talking to a developer in Australia to do desert domes software's factories. So instead of building the factory that might be $1,000 per square metre, you just do this air dome that serves the same purpose, but is 50 to 100 euros per square metre.

Tyrone Shum:   

When he arrived in Australia in 2019, he settled in Melbourne so he and his wife could be near her family. They settled in fine, but so did something else.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:27:58] We actually moved in in January of 2020. So late, late 2019, basically. My first step was attending a lot of networking events around property. Probably [in my] first month in, I jumped on a one year program on how to become a property developer with Rob Flux. That was an instrumental decision, because even though I had a lot of general knowledge about how to do property development from shadowing this developer in Romania, I didn't have technical details. And Rob has a very good course that goes in depth on how to avoid the avoidable mistakes that you can make, basically.

  

[00:29:03] Due to COVID, I was scared, to be honest. And I probably delayed a little bit, my starting point. So if it were not due to COVID, maybe I would have secured the site three months in. 

  

[00:29:15] However, due to COVID, I allowed myself time to do Rob's course for a year and Monty level, and I ended up securing my first site. So I guess it's both a good and a bad thing in a way. 

  

[00:29:31] The bad part is that it took me longer because it was a little bit scary to COVID. The good part is that they managed to educate myself a little bit more months before I actually jumped into the game.

Tyrone Shum:   

There was a silver lining in that development was delayed, as it gave him a chance to adapt to his new country. 11 months later, he purchased his first site in line with his specific strategy.

Dan Lazar:   

[00:00:11] My strategy has always been to target development approved sites. Therefore, this was a development approved site for four townhouses that they secured off the market to an agent. And we bought it 10% under market at that point in time, according to the prices that were at that point. It took around 15 months. 

  

[00:00:35] So we bought it with a 2% deposit and a six month delayed settlement. The 2% deposit allowed us to secure the site and the six months delayed settlement enabled us to go and finalise all of the construction documentation and fundraise the funds that were missing from investors.

Dan Lazar’s story continues in the next episode of Property Investory. He dishes up some more on his first development…

 

[00:01:34] So the biggest two variables— the sales and the cost to build it— were already confirmed by third parties.

 

His thoughts on the construction crisis and how it’s impacted his profits…

 

[00:06:13] I may be subjective, but I think this may have been one of the worst times for the construction industry.

He explains why starting out with nothing is the best approach.

[00:10:41] And probably all in all, probably the biggest learning is to start from trust level zero with everybody that you're dealing with.

 

And that’s next time on Property Investory.