Timestamps:
Sustainably Developing Properties
Combine Your Heart and Head
Raising $1,000,000,000
Personal and Property Development Go Together
Helpful Courses
Wouldn’t Change a Thing

Resources and Links:

[40:18] I think that that's really it. Acknowledging that we are going to make mistakes because we are human. And the real lesson in life is to learn from those mistakes and to do what we can to make life better for people.

 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we’re back with the CEO and founder of High Impact Property Investments, Dr Dionne Payn. We will explore the strategy that she is using to raise $1 billion for ethical property projects. As well as this, she will delve into the resources that she used along her journey, and her strong belief in setting intentions.

 

 

 

In our last conversation with Dr. Payn, we learned about her passion for sustainability and for developing properties. Now, let’s explore the strategy that she uses.

 

[17:59] I'm an ex developer. I'm very happy to say that. Just in terms of my temperament, I'm much better at the relationship side than the development and the project management side. Project management is very detailed. There's a lot of moving parts and for me, there are other developers out there that are doing what it is that I want to see happen in the world in creating more affordable and sustainable homes. So, I'm much happy to support them.

 

[18:34] So, now I raise capital for developers that are doing that, and I have an investor network. So, when I, I actually I'm on the side of the investors but I'm funnelling money into developers that I believe are genuinely doing the right thing when it comes to creating homes that have that social and environmental impact. So, when I work with investors, I talk about how they can achieve double digit returns, they can be part of the solution and they can invest in alignment with their values.

 

To be able to find investors that share the same values as Dr. Payn, networking is crucial.

 

[19:06] I do that through what I call the investor network, where we bring the investors in and we'll talk to them about the different projects. But there's a lot of oversight in those projects. So, I always want investors to be not just invested in with their money but invested in with themselves as well. So, as an example, we've got a project at the moment where we do monthly webinars. And so, they're monthly webinars with the developer. So, the investors [and] I've got one tonight actually.

 

[19:37] So, the investors will get on the call, the developer will be there. They'll give the project report and the investors will be able to ask questions. Now, the developer could just give a written report. They'd be fulfilling their duty but for me, it's just important that the investors get to be part of that journey. And there was an experience that I had in one call, that we had I should say, where on one of the projects, the developers say, well, we're selling the units but this one unit we're not able to sell. And so, there was lots of feedback and suggestions from the investors as to how we could market this particular property to sell. And then they all got sold and that was great and the investors got a great return.

 

[20:23] So, it's that level of collaboration and bringing investors on a journey because the property development industry is one of the least trusted industry. So, if you can shine a light and sort of have some transparency into the moving parts that happen throughout the process, then people get more, they have more trust in the process and they want to be part of it. And particularly if there is the social and environmental impact aspect as well.

 

[20:48] Then those stories are measured and recorded. Then people have more trust in the whole thing and we can get some really great outcomes as a result of that. So, that's what excites me and like I said, I work with the investors but we support developers that we believe are doing the right thing and we can see and be part of that journey with them as well.

 

Through strong networking, Dr. Payn was able to find her first developer to work with.

 

[21:28] I remember finding my first developer and he, at the time we were business partners, we became business partners. And I remember saying to him, look, I want to raise capital for you. You're clearly a better developer than I am and I want to raise capital for you. But if I'm going to do it, then it has to be for creating affordable and sustainable homes. Because I know that if I'm not 100% behind something, like, it's just not gonna happen.

 

[21:58] And so, for him he said, well look actually, I've been thinking about creating an ethical investment fund for a long time and maybe we could do that together. So, we started down that journey together and then he is now building more of these affordable and sustainable homes. And I'm super happy to be supporting him through the work that I do.

 

[22:17] And so, a lot of it is networking, a lot of it is word of mouth. I had a conversation with somebody today, who is creating affordable homes for women over 55. That was a beautiful conversation [and] really inspiring. I know that we're going to end up doing great work together and that was a recommendation from somebody else that is part of that developer community as well.

 

[22:39] So, I think that there's, like, as I talk about what I do and part of writing the book actually was to just put that on a bigger stage and say, look, this is what I'm doing. Who's in? And as I sort of shared that message and more people have been attracted. And, you know, it's funny. Again, last night, I went to a networking event and just happened to be sitting opposite somebody and it's like what do you do? What do you do? And she is a social enterprise that works with other social enterprises and knows people that are in the building industry and that are doing exactly what it is that I'm looking for in developers.

 

[23:20] So, I think that when I set this business up, High Impact Property Investments, it was with a purpose that was beyond the money and beyond the financial return. It was like, the question was, how do we create something where we can raise a billion dollars for these ethical property projects? And because that purpose is there and because it's really in service of the people that need it, there's this driving force which I'm just like, okay, I'll just go where I'm directed to go.

 

[23:54] Then, you know, it's funny because what happened last night was that somebody invited me to go to this event and because I liked the person, I was just like, yeah, of course. And then I realised that my husband was going to be out and I was going to be out and then it was like, oh, my kids aren't old enough to, they're not old enough to be alone by themselves at that time of the night. So, then I was like, okay, well, I've got to get a babysitter but am I really going to pay for a babysitter? But the thing was, where I got to was like, no, it feels right. Okay, I'm gonna pay for the babysitter. And I reckon I'm gonna get way more business out of that one meeting, then the cost of the babysitter. Like that's inconsequential.

 

Experiences like this only confirm Dr. Payn’s belief that you have to follow your heart as well as your head.

 

[24:37] I've learned that if I have too much head, that's not a good thing. If I have too much heart, that's not a good thing either. But if I can combine the both of them then things are good. So, yeah, I think that's the, sort of wrapping that up, it's like having a purpose that's bigger than just the money. Having a purpose that's really about well, how can I serve the people that I want to serve? And having that first and foremost, in any decision that I make.  Is what I'm doing actually going to benefit the people that I want it to benefit? No, I'll leave it. Yes, okay well let's do it.

 

[25:14] And a very interesting thing that happened, I met with a couple of developers because I'm trying to bring more developers into the fold. And I met with a couple of developers and a part of me was like, this doesn't feel right, I wonder what it is. And I have quite a rigorous process when I'm screening developers because at the end of the day, I'm working for the investors and we don't want to be losing money unnecessarily. It's not to say that every project is going to work. There's definitely risks in property development, and they're clearly defined. But there was just something in this, that they weren't willing to commit to the process and eventually, it became apparent that they weren't the right developers to be working with.

 

[25:58] And initially, I was like, oh, I was really kind of, I sense that but I was willing to work with them to try and make it work. And then I just recognised that actually, the process that I've got in place to screen developers is good because it's screened out and there's time and energy that is involved in getting to the stage where investors will [and] are confident enough to invest into a project. And if I'd wasted my time with these people and no disrespect to them as people, but it just wasn't the right deal. But if I had, in the old days, that old me would have gone no, no, no, we'll try and make it work. And bend myself in knots to try and make it work.

 

[26:37] Whereas the new me is like, well, actually, no. That doesn't work. We've put a process in place, they're not willing to follow that process. Therefore, we walk away and I use my energy and time and attention on people that are a fit. And then I had the most beautiful conversation with somebody today, who is absolutely a fit for what we're doing. So, it's using the skills that I have in doing property development and using the skills that I have in building those relationships. And also, sort of knowing in my heart when it's time to walk away and just going, oh, this isn't working. And also having the process in place to screen that out.

 

 

One of Dr. Payn’s goals is raising $1 billion for ethical property projects but how is she going about approaching it?

 

[27:44] Well, I was very, very, very systematic. And I remember when the billion dollars came up and I was ranting to a friend and that's how it came up. I was like, right, so I'm gonna raise, I don't like this whole coal mining thing and I don't like how money's going over there. What if we move some of that money over here and put it into products that help people and the planet to thrive? And property is my thing. I love property. I love the creative nature of property. So, what if we do that?

 

[28:12] So, that's where that billion dollars came from and I remember when it kind of, it was just this like bar, and it came out and I was like, I did not think that, that just came out. And so, I remember initially when I was talking to people about it, and I'd say a billion dollars and I'd almost be like a billion dollars, you know, sort of a bit embarrassed about the number. And I remember a few people or a couple of people at the start, they were like I wouldn't say that. Like, you just don't sound very credible but for me, it was like I'm gonna say it because I believe it.

 

[28:47] I remember at one point that I was talking to somebody, and I obviously told him about my goal and he repeated it back to me. He was like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna help you get to a billion dollars. So, it was like, okay, other people believe in it, as well. And there's something about that. Like, speaking something into existence. And now I'm actually at the stage that a billion dollars, like, I think that I'm shooting too low. And I have to say, it's not about me. Like I couldn't raise a billion dollars on my own. But I can bring a community of people together to create that and that's the exciting thing.

 

[29:20] So, going back to your question about how are we going to get to a billion dollars, well I realised that the best way that I work is through finding [or] creating partnerships with people that have a database of investors or that have fund managers, that sort of thing. And so, finding the people that already have that resource before I do and creating partnerships with them. And those partnerships are based on relationships and the relationship is easy because there's a bigger purpose, rather than okay we're going to make a matzah, let's just do it. It's like we're actually working in service of the need here. How are we going to make this work? And those are the exciting conversations to have.

 

 

Coming up after the break, we hear about the value of using all resources available to you…

 

[31:05] I made the connection quite early on that property development and personal development go hand in hand.

 

She will share some encouraging words…

 

[39:22] Just live your life because it's all gonna make sense in the end.

 

We’ll learn about the importance of setting goals…

 

[41:27] I think it comes back to, like if anything, the luck comes because you've set an intention, you set a goal.

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

 

 

 

We have followed Dr. Payn’s journey from childhood to raising $1 billion. Hers is a story of great success, so, let’s take a look at what resources she used along the way.

[31:05] I made the connection quite early on that property development and personal development go hand in hand. On that project, the 40 townhouse project that I mentioned, we hit a roadblock and it was around the value or actually, it wasn't just the value. There was something else that happened and I just, the solicitor that we used, was really not very good and to the point where I was approaching joint venture partners with the paperwork that I'd spent a lot of money on and they were like, this is a scam. Their solicitors were saying this doesn't seem right.

 

[31:46] So, I'd wasted a lot of money and time and I just happened to be sitting next to somebody in a networking event and she was a facilitator for a personal development course. And there was something about it, she didn't really talk about what it was that she did but there was just something about her where I felt, I'm going to follow this thread because I know that somehow I'm going to get to the answer that I need. And so, I did a weekend course and then got really into the personal development journey because I was like, this is amazing because I really got to see what my limiting beliefs were. And a lot in those days was around my value and what I had to offer.

 

[32:33] And so, I remember having gone on that personal development course and I'd had all these roadblocks and I was really trying to make it work with these JV partners. Going on the course blowing away these limiting beliefs. Within the week, the deal was done on that property and I had joint venture partners, I had the bank finance, and it was all there. And it wasn't that it wasn't there before. It was all there; I just couldn't see it because I had this kind of mess of beliefs about my self worth and all other kinds of crap going on. So, once that cleared, it was like, okay, join the dots. Okay, off we go. And so, the personal development aspect of it kept me going all the way through that project, even in the spectacular, it wasn't a collapse but it was a spectacular, dysfunctional relationship.

 

There was a personal development course that helped her to reflect on her role in that project.

 

[33:28] Like, obviously the tendency or not obviously, but my tendency was to blame the builder and blame the joint venture partner and go it was all their fault. But then the personal development part of it was like, what did I do? And just being really honest with that bought so many revelations and it was wonderful. And I just, if it wasn't for that personal development journey, I wouldn't be here now. And it's not even, it's not over. Like it's continuing.

 

[33:54] But the beauty of it is that, you know, in being able to let go of all of those limiting beliefs, it's not that there's not any anymore, there certainly are but being able to let go of those, I've moved to the next stage where I can actually consider how I can help humanity. Whereas before, it's like how can I help myself? And feeling like I was failing quite miserably but now it's like, okay, well, the limiting beliefs are different because it's like, okay, well what's stopping me from being the best that I can be to support others to be the best that they can be? And that, like, I prefer this phase.

 

She will share specifically what courses she has found helpful along her journey.

 

[34:45] Look, there were a few things that I did that I feel that I need to credit. So, the first one was Stuart Zadel. He's a property educator and not so much property nowadays but you know. He used to do these two or three day events and do a lot of work around mindset. So, that kind of got me started and then the course that I did for that weekend and then I got quite heavily into that, was called the Avatar course. And that was great. So many things came up as a result of doing that. So, it was really beneficial. I really believe that if I hadn't have done that course, I probably wouldn't be here now.

 

[35:27] But then there was another course that I did called Money and You. So, where's the Avatar course was really about the personal responsibility aspect. The Money and You was examining my, well, anybody that takes the course, their relationship to money and the games that we play in our life. Which games really show what your behavioural patterns are and the money in your course is all about games. So, that was amazing and then the Money and You franchise, I guess you call it, they have other courses as well. So, you get deeper and deeper and deeper into it. And one of those deeper courses was, after the I spent a few years in the wilderness just going I don't know what to do or how I'm going to make this work this development journey after my initial project.

 

[36:15] And I just, initially I was like, okay, I'm gonna go it alone. But if I can't rely on anybody else, I'm gonna go it alone. And that other course that I was just mentioning, had an experience where I realised that I really needed to collaborate, like I wasn't gonna get anywhere unless I collaborated. And then my business partner, my old business partner walked into my life, shortly afterwards. So, and that was amazing.

 

[36:40] And then he, I'm happy to tell you about him, his name's Simon Peters. His organisation is the 360 Collective. He was the most amazing mentor to me. So, I did all this personal development but then got mentored out of the property development side of things because I had quite a few projects on the go and I was just like I don't really want to be doing it but I don't know how to step out of it. He helped me through that stage to be able to be in a position where I could go, okay, I'm just raising capital for developers. And that's my sweet spot.

 

[37:10] So, yeah. So, lots of amazing mentors through those courses and lots of amazing courses and lots of amazing learnings about myself and my past and being able to look at my past as an asset to where I am now, rather than what I was like, you know, God, this is so shameful, I can't really talk about this. Like, who would want to, you know, people will really judge me if they know this. And it's like, it's not that bad. I had in my head rather than the reality of it.

 

With all of the lessons that Dr. Payn has learned along her journey, she would not change a thing.

 

[38:34] So, I don't know that I'd say anything. Because I feel that everything that's happened has happened for a reason and I feel that in a sense that my journey has been predetermined from probably even before I was born.

 

[39:22] Just live your life because it's all gonna make sense in the end.

 

[39:40] And I really don't think there's any necessarily wrong choices. I just not, as long as you learned from them. That's it. I think that that's it. I think that we do things in our life and we make mistakes. So, I was listening to the Hamilton the musical soundtrack. I don't know if you've come across that. It's an amazing, amazing, amazing production and I love the soundtrack. And it's just thinking about the different characters in there and if they should have done things differently but just recognizing that they all had their part in history, and the role that they played was all really important

 

[40:33]  You've achieved so much in your life and you've also been a great role model for your kids but also to, for social entrepreneurship and ethical development and so forth. How much of that success do you think has been due to skill and intelligence and hard work? And how much of that has been due to luck?

[40:59] I think we make our own luck. I do. Um, I think. Yeah, I mean, I go back to the what happened last night and I just happened to sit across the table from somebody who I really believe is going to be influential to my business and that's not the only experience that I've had. I've had many, many of those.

 

[41:27] So, I think it comes back to, like if anything, the luck comes because you’ve set an intention, you set a goal. And then life arranges itself to meet that intention. So yeah, I do think that we create that luck by having the intention and setting the intention in the first place.

 

[41:49] And also another thing to add to that. Setting the intention but then clearing the barriers out of the way, which is where the personal work comes in, to make sure that you can meet that.

 

 

Thank you to Dr Dionne Payn, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.