In this episode we delve into how not even those with $3 million in net worth are exempt from experiencing financial issues. Kulkarni explains what those problems often revolve around, how investors’ motivations change with the seasons, and just how important the end goal is. Plus, she reveals the mistakes that are so easy to make that even she has been known to succumb to good marketing!

Timestamps:
00:54 | Defining High Net Worth Individuals
03:25 | Challenges Along the Journey
06:24 | Keep the End in Mind
11:54 | Cash Flow > Capital Growth
16:27 | Instant Access? Think Again
20:33 | Not All It Appears to Be
25:51 | Success and Shedding
28:23 | Strawberries and the Seasons

Resources and Links:

[00:06:29] I feel that a lot of people build wealth with no real connection to what the end game needs to look like. And so I think we're a community of investors— particularly here in Australia— that focus on net worth as the only metric for success. And net worth is certainly one metric. 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with Amazon bestselling author, chartered accountant, and founder of the Freedom Warrior program, Salena Kulkarni. She explores the problems people with high net worths face, despite having $2 to $3 million in net assets, and how planting in the spring may help to stop these problems from cropping up.

Tyrone Shum:   

Kulkarni is on board to unpack what defines a high net worth individual, and to explain the unique challenges people in this position often face. Despite falling into a category of wealth that most people strive for, nobody is immune to problems in their lives, and people with high net worths are no exception.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:00:54] Obviously it's a pretty generic term, but I guess there's the technical definitions that are wholesale or sophisticated investor. And essentially, from my point of view, it's someone who has probably been investing to some degree for a period of time, has some experience around investing, [and] has created upwards of $2 million [to] $3 million in net worth. From all accounts, they're doing quite well. And they're just looking for that next piece of support for the level that they're at. 

  

[00:01:34] I think as well, what I would say is that I think there's a general feeling from a wealth goal perspective that when you hit something like $2 million [or] $3 million [or] $4 million or $5 million in net worth, that you've made it, and that all your problems disappear. And I think that's where this podcast really started from, is this idea that it's not that your problems disappear, it's just that the flavour changes.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:02:01] And problem also come more and more, actually, because the more money that you have, the more ways you've got to discover how you can protect that. Not only for right now, but also for the future as well, because there'll probably be more challenges that come along the way. 

  

[00:02:16] But we'll also touch on saying that it is potentially a wholesale/sophisticated investor in terms of what we're talking about. And just to make it clear, the net asset value of, say, $2.5 million for a sophisticated investor is basically your assets minus your liabilities. 

 

[00:02:32] So just in case people don't quite understand, it's not the gross. So if you've got an asset base of, say, $10 million but you've got a debt of, say, $9 million, then you've really got $1 million dollars in net assets. So that's something that we just wanted to clarify, because sometimes it can be a bit confusing. 

  

[00:02:46] That's really important. Because ultimately, we want to be able to understand and help all the people out there who are on that level. We want to just tackle these things, and looking at case studies of how we've been able to do that, because there's always these challenges.  

 

[00:03:03] We've worked with numerous clients who have come across this, and I personally find that the first thing that they usually find is the challenge is finding great deals. Because there's lots and lots in this market, especially when [the] Internet is so fast, you can actually access and see all these great deals. But the challenge is which deals are really, really profitable, and which deals are actually going to be suitable for them. What are your thoughts on that, Salena?

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:03:25] I think finding good deals at every stage of your wealth journey is challenging. But I think as you pointed out, as you go from spring into summer into autumn, winter, in terms of your season as an investor, your motivation and your focus changes. And I think as you grow your net worth and you do become higher net worth, preservation of capital becomes really, really the primary focus. 

  

[00:03:57] What I hear from a lot of investors who I would describe as high net worth is [that] they're not necessarily always looking for the killer deals. They're looking for good deals which are in alignment with what they need at that particular point. 

  

[00:04:14] And I think, particularly where we're from, finding opportunities to grow your capital and finding those growth deals is not as challenging as people might think. But I think finding those cash flow deals where they can actually deliver that predictable, sustainable cash flow, that's actually pretty tough. 

 

[00:04:38] And I think, from the people that I speak to anyway, that is the great source of frustration. [It] is that they've got huge net worths and, in some cases, $20 million [or] $30 million [or] $40 million [or] $50 million, but the cash flow is dismal for the level of net worth that they have. 

  

[00:04:58] I would argue that most wealthy people don't like the idea of selling assets in order to fuel lifestyle and other desires. They want their wealth to grow. And so that missing piece is: How do you find deals that deliver that strong cash flow without taking on crazy levels of risk? I think that's a major concern.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:05:26] It is, and I totally agree with you on that side of things. And as you've just mentioned, we know clients who have really, really high net worths. At the end of day, what's the point of actually having so much when you can't even extract it or access that kind of capital to be able to deploy [or] to generate cash? 

  

[00:05:44] Because ultimately, aren't we actually in this to actually build a portfolio or base asset base, so that way it can actually create cash flow, so that we can actually live a lifestyle that we choose as well? 

  

[00:05:54] Because if you have that on paper and say $20 million [or[ $30 million sounds great, but how do you actually get those funds out to be able to sustain your lifestyle? That's a bit of a challenge. And finding deals that actually can do that for you is [what] we're going to be really talking about today in this kind of topic. 

  

[00:06:11] Obviously, not specifically about the deals, but specifically, how do we actually change that way to be able to perhaps move into sort of alternative strategies or move their funds into something else that can actually generate cash flow?

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:06:24] I think that's a really good point. I would add to that that as an investor, I feel that a lot of people build wealth with no real connection to what the end game needs to look like. And so I think we're a community of investors— particularly here in Australia— that focus on net worth as the only metric for success. And net worth is certainly one metric. 

 

[00:06:50] But I think that at some point along the journey, you've either got to try and strive for a crazy net worth, and put up with the rubbish cash flow that most assets deliver, or earlier in the piece, start to focus on that passive income.  

  

[00:07:09] This was my experience. When I had a reasonably good property portfolio in 2008 [or] 2009, I started to go, 'Oh, hang on a sec. I've got this great balance sheet'. But I still felt like I was heavily reliant on my active income. That's when I started to really go, 'Well hang on, this doesn't work. This isn't the right pathway'. So I think that what I hear from high net worth investors now is: 'I've got lots of capital, but it isn't working for me the way that I want it to be'.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:07:51] And that's the other thing we've got to also consider is the opportunity cost. Because at this stage, a lot of the high net [worth] individuals have been able to find deals that have provided them with high capital growth, which is typical. And it's great that they've spent all the time to build that up. 

  

[00:08:09] And I know plenty of clients who have done that as well. They've got easily $10 million to $20 million worth of assets, but they still are working full time in their job. As much as some of them might love to do it, they also want to be able to do other things that they really enjoy, like spend more time [with] family, do charity type of work, and so forth. 

  

[00:08:25] But they can't get out of it, because they're still using their job to also still service their current portfolio. Which is challenging. And they've got a nice high net worth, $10 million easily for some of these. And I kind of go, 'Wow, it's great that you can'. 

  

[00:08:40] I'm just looking at a family who we actually even hang out [with] on a regular basis, I'm thinking about them now. And I was quite surprised when he told me how many properties he owned. But he was telling me every day he was stressed, because he's still relying on his job and he said, 'Look, if I lose my job, I don't have enough money to even just be able to pay down some of the debt or service the debt that we currently have'. 

  

[00:09:02] And he's paid off at least three of his properties. He's got about six of them, but he's still stressed. And I'm thinking, 'How is that possible? Both you and your wife are working, and you've got this massive asset base, but still not able to sustain it'. And I scratched my head, I'm going, 'I wouldn't ever want that for our family, nor would I have wanted that for his family'. I've had those conversations with him further and he's obviously looking to alternate strategies at this point in time.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:09:28] I'll tell you something funny, and you can tell me whether this is true or not. And I say this through the filter of 'Maybe this is just what I attract into my life'. But people I know who are... I would even describe as ultra high net wealth, they are still super frugal. 

  

[00:09:48] I think the stereotype is that as you become wealthier that you start living this really lavish lifestyle and you have these insanely expensive holidays and you live in a mansion. But the more people I talk to, and the more people I spend time with who not only are fantastic investors, but they're also extremely wealthy, the more I realised that the frugality and mindfulness around spending doesn't disappear. 

  

[00:10:21] I think, partly, that comes about because [of] exactly what you said there. The wealth is almost compartmentalised over here, and then you've got your active income that you've got to use to support your lifestyle over here. And sometimes those two things feel very different, very distinct.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:10:43] It's really interesting. And I think it's also initially, when building up a portfolio— whether it be an asset base of property, or businesses, whatever it is— if they've started off with nothing, they would have actually ingrained into them over time that they've got to be able to put money away, save, and budget really, really well and tight. 

 

[00:11:04] And as their portfolio continues to grow, that habit continues to move on, but it doesn't change very much, because that's how they've been able to build their wealth. But as soon as they start building more wealth, then they go, 'Man, how am I supposed to continue to manage this?' And that's the mindset that's got to be changed over time. And to be able to build that asset so that way you can actually drive and provide that income or that cash flow. Otherwise, there's really no point doing it. 

 

[00:11:29] And I'm not saying bad things to people that you shouldn't do it. But it's just the mindset needs to change over a period of time in order to do that. Because you've got to think, 'How do I switch from these high capital growth type of assets, move them into high cash flow type of assets to be able to do that?' 

  

[00:11:43] And some people only do it when they're retiring, because they can't work at that point. But why should we wait until when we retire when we can actually do it earlier? 

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:11:50] [I] totally agree.  

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:11:54] It's fascinating. So that's one of the major challenges that we see. 

 

[00:11:59] I'll give you another example. I know a client who's got easily over $10 million plus of cash that's been in some funds in the past. And he's constantly saying to me, 'I would rather you helpme find deals that provide monthly cash flow, rather than me put into something that will just return the capital growth at the end of the term'. 

 

[00:12:17] And obviously it's something that we can help with, but it's just more and more I'm seeing these clients are wanting something that's going to be providing them a cash flow, so that way, they can sustain whatever their lifestyle is. Or maybe pay down more debt or whatever. 

  

[00:12:32] Because by the time you wait for something to grow, typically it takes anywhere between seven to 10 years for property to double its value, by then there's so many different things that can potentially happen in life. And sometimes people just forget that in 10 years time property's already gone up, and they've already missed the boat. So it's really fascinating.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:12:52] I think the issue, just to summarise, is that as people grow their net worth and become more successful in whatever it is that they do, whether it's running a business or working in a great job, the time that they have to go out and hunt for great deals becomes diminished. You've got family and lots of other considerations. 

  

[00:13:19] A lot of the guys that I've spoken to have tried things, like they've gone off to a Deloitte or a Macquarie Bank, thinking that they're going to get access to some killer deals, only to find that they're really getting a premium service. So they get invited to a lot of fancy events and things like that. But really, the offers are just more of the same— more managed funds and shares and things like that. Which to some degree doesn't necessarily give them the outcome that they want. 

  

[00:13:53] So I think this issue around finding investments can't necessarily be solved by just shopping around for the most expensive or prestigious advisors.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:14:09] I totally agree with you on that side of things as well. It kind of leads me into the second part, which is to talk about one of the other challenges, [which] is trust. 

  

[00:14:17] I guess the reason why a lot of the high net worth investors end up going to these companies is because it's got a brand around it, therefore, people trust [them]. You go to Deloitte, you go to KPMG, because, yes, it's been around, it's renowned. And supposedly, they're supposed to deliver you on the best value. 

  

[00:14:33] But even though when I was working in the corporate world, I've worked with these companies. They do charge by the hour, and they do charge for service. And ultimately, at the end of the day, it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to deliver your expectations. Because at the end of the day, they still have a business to run. And if their business doesn't successfully make a profit from it, then they don't have a business. 

 

[00:14:55] You've got to also understand that they're really only there for their own profit, to be honest, in my opinion. Because the amount of work that I've given them in the past for some of the projects we've done, they've charged quite substantial amounts of money. And they still ask for more, even when they haven't delivered on what [I've] requested. 

  

[00:15:10] So I think ultimately, trust comes back down to who do you want to work with. And it doesn't necessarily have to be big brands like Deloitte, and KPMG, and all those kinds of things. But you've got to also understand that when you're actually working with someone, potentially, or some group or company, that you want to be able to work with them long term. 

  

[00:15:28] And this is the thing. I say to all my clients, 'At the end of the day, I'm here for a long term relationship, I'm not here to just send you deals, and then that'd be it. I want to build this long term relationship with you, because ultimately, it's going to be more than just a business here. It's going to be a family relationship where I feel as though I'm part of your family and [I'm] here to support and help you as well, too'. 

  

[00:15:48] And if they feel that way and I feel that way as well, then there's [an] opportunity to be able to work together. But if you don't get that feeling, or the gut [feeling] that something's wrong, and they're just here to really upsell you on various things, then in my opinion, I probably wouldn't want to work with that person. 

Coming up after the break, Kulkarni shares that she isn’t immune to certain things herself…

[00:20:45] I know that when I was a very green investor, I was definitely guilty of getting suckered into good marketing. 

She explains how you can’t have success without shedding…

[00:24:51] One of the things I was writing down today was a quote that my husband John has said to me from the day one that we got together. 

She reveals why reaching your goal is only the first step in the journey.

[00:26:39] I think there's a tendency for people to go, 'Well, net worth, that's the goal. Let me hit that goal and then I'm done'. 

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:   

As she has experience working at Deloitte in the past, Kulkarni knows what it’s like to be on the other side of the fence. Many years later, she went through an impactful exercise with people who could have been her peers.  

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:16:27] About five years ago, I started to interview a series of high net worth investors who had either been with one of the big four, or they'd been with BT, or Macquarie Bank. And I asked them about the experience, specifically from the viewpoint of: Did you, in fact, get access to better investment opportunities? And the sense I got was a resounding 'No'. 

  

[00:16:29] I think part of what comes with those big brands is the expectation that maybe they've got some cutting edge relationships and [the] ability to leverage into deals that the average Joe can't. And certainly that wasn't the experience that most people had. 

  

[00:17:15] And I think, exactly as you've said, sometimes you've got to think outside the square. Sometimes you have to break away from mainstream thinking. But the expression that I've heard used over and over in my circles is: Trust, but verify. 

  

[00:17:33] Of course you want to work with people that you know, like and trust. That's ultimately the game, because you want to build long-term relationships with them. But the question is: How do you make sure that they're the real deal? 

  

[00:17:46] And this is where being able to ask the right questions, do the right background checks, formulate rules around what you want in terms of communication, [and] what your expectations are as far as transparency. Because ultimately what I'm really advocating for is as your wealth grows, you should want to be in control even more than when you first start out. You really want to be the decision maker behind every deal. 

  

[00:18:19] Unfortunately, I don't think there's any shortcuts. I think you can have intuition around, 'Yes, this person seems trustworthy'. But I definitely think you can't shortcut the idea of needing to ask all those pointy questions and verify and tick boxes upfront.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:18:38] And the one thing I'll add, as well, too, is look at their track record, past track record. See how transparent they are to talk about that. Because if they've had some deals that have not gone bad, ask that question. I mean, I get asked that all the time, and I tell them transparently, 'Yes, we have'. And I'm not gonna hide that. I just want to let them know that we have also managed the risks and so forth around it as well, too. 

 

[00:18:58] And that's the thing, you've got to look at it from a proven track record point of view. Not everyone's going to have all the glamour and the shine and all that kind of stuff. But if they are just genuinely able to be transparent and show you what they've done, then that's already a good starting point. 

  

[00:19:13] I think that's what you need to look out for, as well, too, when you're looking at doing this research behind who you're gonna actually take on as being a trusted adviser or someone who can actually help you source the deals. 

  

[00:19:23] Because, unfortunately, in this market, there's so many people out there spruiking and selling this. And at the end of the day, it's great if you can actually find someone to be able to do that. But a lot of times I've heard so many scary stories where people have just trusted this particular person. And at the end of the day, they've just done what they shouldn't have done, which is basically look after their own pocket and basically just charged all these exorbitant fees. 

  

[00:19:48] And you probably may have seen a lot of these stories happen recently as well. There's a large case at the moment that I've seen online with a particular person who's gone through and done a lot of developments and promised people that they'll get an insane amount of return. But after about three or four years, nothing's happened. All the assets that he presumably purchased and so forth, they've all been frozen. And now it's a long, long legal battle to be able to get that back. 

  

[00:20:14] You've just got to do the due diligence and not be sold on the marketing hype and so forth. Hence, the reason why you and me Salena, we don't hide anything. We try to be as transparent as possible and share what we learn. Otherwise, it's very easy to be just sold into these marketing things out there, because the shiny object's just only around the corner.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:20:33] I think one of the things we were talking about before we turned on the camera today was this idea that it's very easy to manipulate numbers and research to make deals look really great. 

 

[00:20:45] I know that when I was a very green investor, I was definitely guilty of getting suckered into good marketing. I would take whatever profit and loss or growth projection that someone thought was going to happen handed to me and just trust it verbatim. And when I then went back to reconcile how things performed in reference to what I'd been shown, it was like chalk and cheese. 

  

[00:21:10] I think one of the big areas of trust and due diligence is to— from a trust point of view, especially when you're looking back at past deals ask them for past profit and profitability statements that they handed out, and then reconcile that against what actually happened.  

  

[00:21:32] I think this whole idea of really stress testing these profit and losses and making sure that they're realistic, sometimes you can even do some of that through common sense. Occasionally you have to go and get professionals to help you. But if you're going to part with any money, you just want to be super confident that those profitability assessments are robust. 

  

[00:21:54] Rather than what I see very commonly is, particularly in the property space, people handing out these very glossy, profitable-looking brochures. And they couldn't be further from the truth. So I think it's something to be very careful about.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:22:12] Absolutely. I've been there, done that. [I've] seen these beautiful developments and they're very, very glossy and they're saying, 'Oh, this is a return that they can get'. But when you go out and do your own DD you go, 'Hold on, how's that possible?' 

  

[00:22:17] In a good market, if it's up market, then that's great. But it's not always going to be the same every time. Because the challenge is like what we're going through right now. Some tailwinds or headwinds that we're going through, the market has taken a little bit of a slip back. And ultimately when that happens, then you've got to really consider: Are those values or those assets still worth as much as it was six months ago. 

 

[00:22:49] So what we're trying to say is do your due diligence at the end of the day. And when you do find that particular person or those advisers or a company to work with that you can trust, then make sure that you do actually check out [their] proven track record history. Check what they've done, see if they've had any bad dealings in the past, etc. 

  

[00:23:11] Because at the end of the day, trust is a very, very important thing, and it's something that will take time to build up. I wouldn't say that you can meet someone in the first day and you hope that they're going to be able to deliver on something x, y, and z. Even though they say they've tried to do that. 

  

[00:23:27] It's like marriage or getting to know someone. You don't go marry them next day. Unless you're on Frozen! But at the same time, you've got to let that time happen. And you've just got to build that relationship. 

  

[00:23:41] It's like you and me, Salena. Initially, when you approached me to do a podcast together, it took a bit of time for me to get to know you. And once we built that relationship up, it's so much easier now. And I think at the end of the day, it's knowing and giving that time for people to be able to build that relationship in building that trust. 

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:23:58] Absolutely. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:23:59] So that's the second one, is trust. 

  

[00:24:02] The third one we wanted to just share about is one of the investors is particularly, the ones that I've spoke to a lot recently who are high net [worth] individuals as well. They've always said to us, 'Look, we've built this great asset base. But the challenge that we face now is that what do we do next?' And they get stuck. And I guess for them, it's like having a very clear direction/plan in place. 

  

[00:24:24] Because say you build up a portfolio and your first goal was to get, say, $10 million of assets. But after that, what is your next goal? And then they get stuck at that point, because they go, 'How am I supposed to actually generate income from these assets that I've built?' 

  

[00:24:38] And it's not always very, very clear, especially when the market changes in property and so forth. And hence the reason why you've got also consider all the other factors as well. So what are your thoughts on that?

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:24:51] One of the things I was writing down today was a quote that my husband John has said to me from the day one that we got together, which is: Success is a process of shedding. 

  

[00:25:03] I remember 20 plus years ago when he said that to me, I just really half understood what the heck he meant. He says it all the time, mainly in reference to clutter around the house and mess around the house that the kids leave. 

  

[00:25:21] But from a wealth building perspective, I definitely think as you become more wealthy, as you grow more successful, it's really important to constantly be striving for: How do I simplify? How do I create flow? How do I make this easy? 

  

[00:25:39] Because otherwise you can end up with a very complex set of affairs or a very time-intensive, laborious portfolio of investments that demand a lot of time and energy. And so plan is obviously a big component of that. 

  

[00:25:56] I think part of developing a plan, particularly if you are already high net worth, can seem redundant. So a lot of high net worth individuals think, 'Well, I've made it, I've got my millions, I don't need a plan'. But I definitely think at every stage of your wealth journey, you need to create these plans within plans in order to make it not only an enjoyable experience, but one that you can actually focus on what matters. Like, what are the key values and metrics for the stage of the journey that you're at? 

 

[00:26:39] Because I think, as I said before, I think there's a tendency for people to go, 'Well, net worth, that's the goal. Let me hit that goal and then I'm done'. 

 

[00:26:50] I hear this often, just not really sure what the next move is. Because you've hit this multiple million mark, and you're not sure what to measure. You're not sure what to change about your portfolio to make it more robust. You're not sure where your vulnerabilities are. You're not sure about how to optimise. 

  

[00:27:12] And so I think a plan is really, from my point of view anyway, an organic kind of exercise. It's not set in stone. And I think, unfortunately, I think a lot of people think that you set out a plan when you start investing in your 20s or whenever, [your] 30s. And that you just stick to it doggedly. And then that's what gets you to where you want to go. 

  

[00:27:37] But I think the ability to adapt, shape your plan, make tweaks on a regular basis, every six to 12 months. It doesn't mean you necessarily change the overarching strategy.  

  

[00:27:51] You can win the war, or you can win the battle. 

  

[00:28:01] So I feel like there's a lot of tactics around: How do I get to the next step? But I think once you've reached what I would call a high net worth status, and you're moving into autumn and winter, which we've talked about before, you still need a plan. You still need a plan. And I think that lack of direction is very common. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:28:23] I totally agree with that. It's really interesting that we're talking about that. Because when you think about the seasons, imagine if we never decide[d] when to plant, when to sow, when to actually wait for things to harvest. I couldn't imagine what our society would be like if we never actually put those things in place. 

  

[00:28:41] Because not every season can be used to plant a seed. And I'll take [the] example [of] strawberries. I didn't know that you couldn't plant strawberries in summer, because [they] just [don't] grow in that temperature. And then when I realised, hold on, you've gotta grow [them] in the winter, you've got to plan for that. 

  

[00:28:57] It's a little bit like that. Once you've reached a certain level, whether it be reaching a status of, say, x, y and z net worth, or when you're reaching a certain age, or whatever it is, you've got to start to think about how do you actually set things up so that way you don't stagnate or you don't have enough. 

  

[00:29:15] Because as we've talked about, I've had many, many clients who have got[ten] to a point where they've got such great high net worth. But they're still at this point in time not in a position to be able to leave their job. Even though it sounds like they've got a lot of equity and they can draw those out and potentially live [off it], but most people don't want to live off an equity. People want to be able to live off cash flow, hence the reason why they still have active income coming in. 

  

[00:29:37] Because one day, if they can't work anymore, [what] will they be able to have reliance on? Where can they get the cash flow from? And hence the reason why a lot of clients come out to us, because we can provide opportunities to be able to do that at this point in time to be able to generate some cash flow from it. 

 

[00:29:53] Obviously, this is not the podcast for it. But the thing is that's one of the few challenges that we see is actually being able to plan out and have a clear direction. Because it's easy to go, 'Hey, there's a great deal down there, it's returning [a] 20 [or] 30% return. But is it part of your strategy? Is it part of your plan?' And if it isn't, then obviously the deal is not going to be right for you. So you've got to actually understand the reasons behind it before we can actually go and find a deal. 

  

[00:30:16] Because the deals are usually the tactic, but the plan is actually your strategy. And if you've got a goal to retire [at], say, maybe 50 or 60 years old, or whatever it is, you've got to make sure that your strategy is in place. 

  

[00:30:28] Otherwise, by the time you reach 50, and 60, you've got nothing in there, then you'd be rushing with such [a] short period of time to be able to achieve something that might not be feasible in that period of time. 

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:30:42] The only thing I would say in the in the sort of under the umbrella of no plan is I think a lot of people that I've shared time with and who've become clients— one of their big concerns around the no plan is how to start to incorporate their children and family members into the game. 

  

[00:31:02] And it's a really challenging one. Because in some cases, having kids be involved can sometimes be a help and a hindrance to them. Because you want to help your kids understand the investment game and how to grow your wealth. But you don't want to disable them either. So there's creating a family investment charter, and setting down values and principles for how you want to grow your wealth. I mean, that's really all part of the plan as well.

Thank you to Salena Kulkarni, our guest on this special episode of Property Investory.