The Jay Allen Show on Safety FM
Richard Nichols & Joshua Caudill
October 6, 2020
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speaks with Richard Nichols from SG World and Joshua Caudill from Safety Leadership Innovators. During the conversation, they talk about leadership, how the pandemic has changed things and what books had the largest impacts on them. This recording to place directly after ACFS's Safety Day 2020, that took place at the backlot of Universal Studios in Orlando. Enjoy it today on The Jay Allen Show.
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speaks with Richard Nichols from SG World and Joshua Caudill from Safety Leadership Innovators.

During the conversation, they talk about leadership, how the pandemic has changed things, and what books had the largest impacts on them.

This recording took place directly after ACFS's Safety Day 2020, at the backlot of Universal Studios in Orlando.

Enjoy it today on The Jay Allen Show.

[00:00:02] spk_0: this is visited. This show is brought to you by Safety FM. Well, hello and welcome to the J. Allen. Joe, we're coming to you live from the safety FM's studios in Orlando, Florida. Well, well, well, hopefully your week is off to a great start as this world of ours keeps on changing and changing as we move forward. Well, let's get you started with what's going on today because I think that this is going to be an important conversation. Last week, if you did hang out with us, I was actually hosting an event known as Safety Day 2020 with the A C F S e. If you did hang out with us during the event, we were coming to you from the back lot at Universal Studios in Orlando. Well, as I always tell people, we tend to do things you know above and beyond, a little bit more than what's expected. So we actually had another segment that was available about leadership. Now, during the event that we were doing for Safety Day. We never got that out there, but I thought that this might be the perfect medium for us toe have that conversation here today. So today on the show, I get to sit down with Richard Nichols. He is the sales and marketing director for SG World, and he talks about his version of leadership and how he sees it and also is part of the conversation we have Joshua Caddell. He is the president of safety leadership innovators and also the president of the A C. F s. So let me not waste too much of your time. And let's get you started right now with this conversation with Rich in Joshua here on the J. Allen Joe. So currently, we have just finished actually doing safety Day 2020 where we were streaming alive at the back lot at Universal Studios in Orlando. So as we always know, we prepare or over prepare for something sometimes. So let's be realistic. But we had a whole speech or conversation ready about leadership, and we didn't get to it. And I still think that this is something that's very valid and that we need to have a discussion about. So I have a Josh here, and I have rich here with me as well as we're going to go through this discussion, and we're just gonna talk very briefly about leadership because I think that it's sometimes it's something that's overlooked and you guys being involved with the A C. F s for a period of time. I would definitely like toe have a better understanding of number one your businesses, that's for sure. And then number two haven't understanding on How do you actually present leadership with the different companies that you get to interact with? Absolutely. Maybe I'll start. Is that OK? Yeah. So, Josh, if you don't mind if you can tell people about yourself a little bit, just in case where they can picture the voice at first, if if they're not getting the video feed, that's really so Josh Caudill. I'm the owner of safety leadership innovators. We started this company because of leadership. To be perfectly honest with you, we feel that we've got a great message to communicate. Um, and we feel like we do that eloquently, and we do it with a lot of grace and dignity. Um, far too often, people don't like being told what to do or how to get to wherever they want to go. So our philosophy is ignite the journey. So at S L I we ignite the journey no matter where you're at in that journey, realizing that different organizations in different people are in different places in their journey in life. So what we try to do is develop a plan with those with those organizations or people to get them to where their vision wants them to be. We provide resource is like training. We do a lot of leadership development, training. Ah, lot of safety. Resource is, but we look at it from a health and safety perspective. So we believe firmly that if if an employee or an individual is healthy, mind, body and soul, they will perform safely, and they will perform or efficiently for their organization. Rich. How about you?

[00:03:58] spk_1: Well, from my name is Richard Nichols. I'm the global sales and marketing director for a company called SG World. Day to Day. I look after SG World. Use a, I guess for us. Um, you know, there's a couple things. We have a purpose statement in our business, which is helping you make a difference on. That's the way that we approach the marketplace. We have 20,000 customers the business is 51 years old, but that that's also about our people, right? We try and understand why are people come to work every day, but also you know what their aspirations in life. We try and give them the support to achieve that. That's underpinned by our four family values, which are do the right thing to do it in the right way. Be the best you can be on be fresh as well. And because of that we enjoy, you know, time serve people. I think 30% of our people have worked for a company for 20 years, and that's very much because we put our people first. Like you say, you know, if we can create an environment where people are engaged and they want to come to work every day, that's gonna reflect in the way that we look after our customers on. I think that's the biggest contributing factor of why the business has been going for 51 years and hopefully another 51 years to come as well.

[00:05:06] spk_0: Well, I didn't realize that you're already that old that it's been 51 years, Thank you, I appreciate it, but I'll joking aside when

[00:05:14] spk_2: you take a look

[00:05:14] spk_0: at this because of some of the background, whoever wants to actually take it going forward, how

[00:05:18] spk_2: do you

[00:05:19] spk_0: look at leadership as you walk into an organization? Do what organizations contact you because there's already a problem? Or do you look at it and go? Maybe there is a problem with the leadership, and I know that this could be one of those questionable questions as we go through it, because it's like, Oh, crap, Now you're asking me to talk about my customers, But just your perspective on how you see it, absolutely so generally when we get a call, it's for finite problem. Alright, people want us to come in and help with something, and what we try to encourage them to do is to come up with a solution and a mission in a journey that aligns with an infinite solution. Um, that that engages people across all levels. Ah, lot of people don't want to be told. Hey, you got a leadership problem in your organization. Probably not something smart for me to tell a perspective client, especially if it's a leadership that hired you. I would absolutely But we believe in self self leadership. We believe in servant leadership. So our philosophy is the rising tide should rise all boats. It shouldn't just be one person succeeding while others are in despair. So if you can coach people and teach people to understand that if other people around them are successful, they too will be successful. It takes away a little bit of the competition that that sometimes deteriorates culture within a company.

[00:06:30] spk_1: It's funny, you know, Just add to that coming back to your question is, when you walk into a company, how can you tell right if the leadership is good or not? My mentor, who is also our chief executive, a guy by the name of Mark Hasse in his office for many years, he has a kind of a sign, a poster on the wall that's got three words. Attitude reflects leadership, and I think you know, if you you gotta get recruitment right and everything else. But actually, if you see a consistent attitude that perhaps isn't the best in an organization, then really, I think it's down to a leader to first be able to look themselves in the mirror and So have I done everything that I could do to create the environment and help that person be successful on? Do you know, as they create the environment where they've got that great attitude? So I think if you've got people with not a great attitude, you should probably look at the leadership first.

[00:07:21] spk_0: Absolutely. I think another thing to add on to that would be how do you tell about the leadership in an organization? Well, it's very, very simple. When times were good, everybody's happy. Everybody is engaged. But when there's times of crisis or when there's a need for crucial conversations, you can tell a lot about it. Somebody about how they handle conflict, how they treat people that either report to them or offer them something within the organization. So we look for how do people react during certain conversations? So sometimes we'll suggest certain topics that we know we're gonna be hot buttons just to see how certain people react, and the best way that we found to do that is to not pinpoint specific leaders that need additional training. We say, Hey, maybe this group could use it and then we leverage that information to help that single person along their journey a little bit more effectively than others.

[00:08:11] spk_1: Something you said there reminds me there was a guy that worked for our company for many years and his name was Ken, and eventually he retired. Hey, was it was pretty introverted. He got his head down, did a great job for the organization on when he when he, uh, going to retire. He kind of mustered up the courage to stand in front of the whole company and say a few words on, you know, something that really, uh, kind of left a resounding, uh, kind of message with May was when he said, When there's a problem, don't find somebody to blame, find a way to solve it And you know, you're talking about conflict and how people deal with those situations. I know another mantra. I was talking to a leader of a construction company last week here in Central Florida. Something that my business shares in is you know, something goes wrong. It is my fault if something goes right is down to you.

[00:09:03] spk_0: Oh, absolutely, that's that's so relevant to what we're talking about. So another thing that we we encourage is, if you're gonna praise somebody, do so in public. But if there is something that requires a crucial conversation, there's no need for public interaction. Pull that person aside separately and handle that with discretion. Ah, lot of times ego gets in the way and you wanna puff out and show people how much authority you have, how how much of a leader you are by publicly criticizing somebody. And what that does is that just deteriorates a culture beyond repair sometimes, uh, what I like toe. Several HR manager friends of mine have always communicated to me, hiring somebody is easy. Replacing that person is the costly part of doing business, and that goes speaks to a lot of leadership. So if you wanna talk truly about the leadership culture of your of your organization, look at your turnover and then really take a deep dive of why that turnover is happening because people generally quit their boss, not the organs. Well, I mean, it's interesting that you say that because there's some different aspects there. Number one. You don't wanna meet pain with pain, and sometimes some organizations have that issue where something goes wrong. and it is. It's easier to blame Joe and say it's Joe's fault. But then the problem that you run into is that you replaced Joe in the same problem continues to occur so that some of the things that you have to look at as we move forward I love really what you said about the back story there about the guy that retired, I thought it was It was quite great. Now, as

[00:10:29] spk_2: we move

[00:10:29] spk_0: forward here and we have some of this portion of the conversation, the world has changed and things are much different than what they were in 2019. So now we're in 2020. We have a pandemic going on. Have you seen a lot of changes based on the pandemic? On how leadership handles things going on inside of organizations?

[00:10:48] spk_1: Well, you know, um, yeah, everybody's job role in not just in safety but beyond has changed somewhat right in the last three or four months, either how we even if not in leadership position, how we carry out our day to day activities? Safety professionals have become health and safety professionals right on lots of distractions in the in the different ways that businesses need to run, right? Something that in safety 2020 right? We've just come off the back off that Barry Dillard was talking about is always remember that you start with the people that around you

[00:11:22] spk_0: Hold on. Will you just plug in your own session? Because that's what that's what it sounded like. I

[00:11:24] spk_1: just want to make sure your legs, but that was so straight through that one. But is to bring the people with you, right? And I think, um uh, so I will never forget the day is that there's a girl or a lady that worked for me, called Stephanie. I sat in my office one day and she said to me, I need to give you some feedback and you could tell She plucked up the courage to give me this feedback. And she said, When I'm in your office and we have our 1 to 1 meetings at a pre scheduled, you doing other things like the phone rings you're checking your phone or your on your computer or whatever on I think, um, you know, to me, that was that was a bit of a wake up call that you need to be present right on, be present for your people in the situation that you're in. And so over the course of the pandemic, that's been all of these distractions. I think a challenge for leaders has bean to be present for your people. Write, create an environment for them. Toe. Have a conversation with you about what they're going through because it's tough for you. But it's tough for them, and you probably have mawr information than they do. A swell. So just take the time toe, be with those people present with those people and just just let them speak. And I think I think I've seen great leaders really rise to the top of that. And some other people kind of get a bit bogged down with all of these distractions around the core, which is taking care of your people,

[00:12:42] spk_0: absolutely and two things you said there were just amazing. So you talk about being present. That's always been, you know, a key issue with employees and employers and people in leadership roles. But the communication aspect of it has changed greatly, you know, we're now communicating instead of face to face great leaders air having to find creative ways to engage their employees. And you could tell when they're they're able to do that when you're able to engage in employees in today's, you know, the state of affairs that we're in today, it takes a lot more work. But leaders now are not only expected to be knowledgeable, they're not only expected to be true leaders and engaging, but they're supposed to provide empathy. Um, this is a new skill for a lot of leaders. A lot of leaders now have to think about other things. I remember Google said it so well when this first started, they said, Yeah, our employees can work from home Our employees conduce all these things remotely, but they still crave that interaction. And so Google, while they lead the charge in trying to help and communicate and find better ways and more creative ways to manage employees, they have also realized that people need that one on one interaction. So as you mentioned that, I have a quick question as you've noticed this change because of the pandemic and these great leaders that we're doing X before, Do you think that there's more distractions that are caused now when they're interacting with their quote unquote team members, employees, or so on on when they're trying to have that discussion, because now it's not the in person, so you don't see if they have a nervous twitch. You don't see if something has changed. Now, all of a sudden you're looking at a zoomed call and it could be a couple of different things. It could be an actual live video feed or could be a picture. So how do you look at that? Well, so it's It's interesting. Do you mind if I go here? I feel like I just keep talking. You always tell I'm enjoying your Southern accent. Very So, Um, when when you're dealing with people remotely and you're dealing with with remote workers, there's an opportunity to engage those workers. But you also pick up on certain things that are things that you may not have noticed before. You're finding out a lot more details about that person. We talked about this earlier today, and it's it's really quite interesting. When the pandemic first hit, everybody's on zoom. Everybody's on these Microsoft team calls and everybody's video boxes open and everybody's totally transparent. There's lots of funny videos they're they're happening online about, you know, the results of a zoom call that went horribly wrong or whatever. But now, as you notice, um, there's data that shows that people are turning off their cameras, which means two things. They're either becoming disengaged with the process, or they are finding it hard to be transparent, because when you're working remotely, the expectation is, Hey, I am super transparent. Everybody needs to know what I'm doing all the time now. When I started this company back in 2018 I found that because I wasn't driving as much as I was before. I was so much more efficient. And there's a lot of employees out there. They're scared to death because they're becoming super efficient and they're getting a lot more done without MAWR being put on their plate. And so there's a lot of layoffs and a lot of talks about cutbacks, and so people are really nervous about how toe handle that can I be to productive in today's society?

[00:15:53] spk_1: I think just well, just to kind of add to that, you know, you talked about the engagement with people you know, J just kind of alluded to the interpersonal part of face to face meeting, um, which is also a huge challenge, right? Say virtually there's a couple things I guess one is is to think about, um does it need to be a group meeting? And if it does, is there also are one toe one that needs to happen because people more likely to open up. Maybe you can. You Hopefully you've got a good enough relationship, right? You're a leader to say to you, guy Hey, man, turn your camera with you so it can't be that bad. Although you do need a haircut, Josh Dio. But But I think there's another leadership principle here. Certainly something that I've learned in my time is I've I've been very lucky toe to be given the opportunity of the career that I have with SG World, and that's a treat Everybody different tree than the same right now. Everybody is the same situational leadership kind of. I call it on and you said, you know, the first thing to do is is listen to people. You got two ears and one mouth. Let's try and use them in that proportion, right? Try and figure out what is their mindset. And what is their attitude right now on the specific subject you're talking to them about on day. Say, you know, they had Thio, but they gauge their readiness. Let me give an example. If Josh decided that he was going to break the toilet a Twerk, let's say on duh And someone said Josh E this'll a hypothetical example. This did not happen, But we might need to leave here prison, uh, that he was gonna break the toilet at work and it came to my attention that Joshua broke the toilet on, Just did not care about that. He came to my face. He didn't care. He blamed everybody else. And he was not remorseful in the least. And it was a toilets fault and everything else then my approach thio managing that, if you like with Josh might have to be a little bit more directive, right? I might need to think about Okay, well, let's just take a step back and just understand why damaging the toilet is an issue on. Be a bit more director. Let him know that you can't do what you did in the toilet. Right, But in the toilet to the toilet, it's subjective. Whereas, you know, if Josh has come into our came to me, no one told me it was Josh. You came to me, said, uh, rich. I've just you're not gonna believe I've just done to the toilet. I'm just I'm so I'm so sorry.

[00:18:14] spk_0: Haven't even had lunch yet. Way get to the toilet. I know that we were big on Porta potties

[00:18:19] spk_1: in one way, but and he's very remorseful about it. And he's beating himself up, and he genuinely is just just straw that he's broken some property. Then the leadership approach is gonna be supportive, right? You're gonna say, OK, well, let's just go and find out. Don't worry about it. You're gonna help him through You probably not gonna take money out of his paycheck, right? It's the same outcome that the person takes responsibility to what? For what they've done, and they've kind of taken a lesson from that. But because of their attitude, you treat everybody different to treat them the same

[00:18:49] spk_0: e. I just have to say some of the verb is that you use about being inside of that bathroom. I don't even know if we could actually care that in most places

[00:18:55] spk_1: I just want to bring that up just in case.

[00:18:57] spk_0: Way would add that real quick e. But let's talk about some other things because I think that it's something that you mentioned. But you didn't say it directly. Do you

[00:19:08] spk_2: think we're missing

[00:19:08] spk_0: the Golden Rule? So let me. Do you mind if I go? Here we go. Apparently, you're going first every time. So if I don't go first, I'm in the bathroom. E no, that was the first story. Imagine what he has next. So one of my mentors, Jerry Shoup, who is the corporate director of Hensel Phelps Construction, is an amazing leader, tremendous leader. And one of the things that he communicated to me is that when you're dealing with employees, when you're trying to mentor, coach and correct on grow people, there needs to be continuous communication. And what he meant by that is, if you do a yearly review with an employee, and if that's the first time you're having that conversation with that ploy, employees, you have failed as a leader. When you do a yearly review with an employee, they should know exactly what you're going to say. They should know exactly what the game plan is. Well, beyond that, if you're surprising them with information, you have failed as a leader and and it struck me. I'm like, Okay, well, what does that mean? And that means that you have to be present. You have to take advantage of the little moments that you have with everybody that you interact with, whether they report to you or not. People can tell when you're present. And so when you talk about the communication and you talk about Okay, how do I engage somebody? That's what I think about I think about okay. Everybody needs to know exactly how I feel and right, wrong or indifferent. It's my opportunity is a leader to communicate that in a very positive manner that can create growth with that employee. Okay, but going back for a second, you kind of avoided the question to you. So I like how you kind of did that. But what do you think about the golden rule? Do you think that it's actually mixing? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I mean in today's society were very quick to judge, um, way tend to not put ourselves in other people's shoes, and we tend not to look at it from their perspective. Um, usually and some. Sometimes we're doing this right now. We may be doing this currently, instead of listening to what other people are saying, we're planning our response. So when I'm engaging somebody, if I want them to be treated like I want to be treated, I would say Please listen to what I have to say. Absorb it and then formulate your response. You can tell a lot about a person when they when they start talking and they try to talk over you before you finish your point, which means that they're not listening. And that's something that transcends all occupations. Welcome to radio.

[00:21:31] spk_1: If I could just I just want to come back to the communication piece if you like, just from my own, my own learning early on in my management career, I was actually banned from sending emails for a short time on. It kind of comes back to this notion of situational leadership, right? Yes, the performance review should just be a recap right stuff we already know But actually it's about thinking about what to communicate, when and how. If every is umbrella management, right, if every time someone does something small, you're honor them, that's not leadership. You're not gonna get them engaged, right? You wanna think about Okay, well, do I need to address that right now? Or maybe you hang on to it and you start to realize what's really going on on. Then later you'll have a conversation about the overall picture right on. The other thing is, don't send an email if it's better to have a conversation. If a guy phones you with an issue and it's a big issue, maybe don't address it on that phone call. Maybe say what you doing later. Let's sit down, have a cup of coffee. So I think the key to communication is also thinking about what you want to communicate when you're going to do it on and how you do it as

[00:22:41] spk_0: well. Absolutely. And how about allowing employees to systematically fail? Aziz. You try to grow employees and and try to mentor and coach people around you far too often, his leaders we want to protect them at every corner every turn. We never want to see them fall and have to get up and dust themselves off. Some of the best lessons I've ever learned is a leader are where I have failed on bears a difference between a crucial failure and a learning failure. Andi, I think that that's important for a leader. You never want somebody to go down the path where they're gonna fail and cost them their career. Or be detrimental

[00:23:14] spk_1: the busy or have a big impact on the business, right? Exactly. But you want them to be able to fail Thio get a learning experience? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:23:22] spk_0: But the emails thing to one thing that I learned on Guy got some great feedback from some tremendous employees. I would always take my work home. I was kind of an over worker, and here I am, sending out emails 9, 10 11 o'clock at night, three o'clock in the morning, 40 clock in the morning. Your cadence for emails and communication tells you, tells your employees a lot about how you stand as a leader. If you're sending emails that expect a response and you're sending him at 10 o'clock at night, that's communicating to your employees that I really don't care about your work life balance. I'm interested in my objective first, and so your life position comes.

[00:24:00] spk_1: What's the message you're sending as well as what are the words that you're saying on just briefly to flip on your head about? Allow people to fail, right? In order to In order to do that, you have to create an environment for them. Toe work in right, and you might just find that they won't fail. In fact, they might thrive on be more successful at something than even you could be on. I think that's a trait of a successful leader, somebody who is not scared off the person that works than me. And you want those people to be better at their job than you are there too many managers if you like to try and push those people into the box because they're scared for their own Selves, when really you should stand behind the organization, Andi, creating environment where those people could thrive on be better than U.

[00:24:43] spk_0: S. So, in other words, what you're saying that is you're looking to set up an environment where people can fail safely where there's a safeguard where they fall into that. Now you did mention something, Josh, if you don't mind me going back for a moment where you said work life balance now with this new world that we're in, of course, zooms readily available teams is readily available. Skype. So on this easy format of a communication, do you? And it's a feelings question, so that's gonna be very careful here. Do you feel that his leaders were giving our people enough opportunity to have a work life balance because they are working now from home? For the most part? I don't think so. I think there's There's two different, um, trains of thought here. First of all, there's a huge difference between a leader and a boss, right? So I want to cover that first and say that you know, a leader is somebody that encourages all those around them to grow and in many cases passed them by with their abilities. That's that's a sign of a true leader. When the people that report to you that you mentor and coach just surpass you and you get to watch them do great things, Ah, boss will put people into a box and say, This is how you're going to behave. This is how you're going to do things and you're going to do it my way or you're out. You talk about work, life balance. Ah, Boss would expect somebody to be available. Thio, call them on. The teams call at 10 o'clock at night and ruin their their work. Work, life, balance, things. They're important. We're missing things, um, in life because of work. So you can Onley miss so maney soccer games. You could only miss so many things with your wife or spouse. You could only miss so many things before all those things deteriorate around you. And that's why work life balance is so important because people that are not happy away from work are generally not happy at work. So we should encourage people to have a workload in a span of control that allows them to have Justus much flexibility at home as as it work

[00:26:36] spk_1: and that you know, this work life balance is something that has been coined for generations, right in management and leadership. It's always on the performance review. How is your work life balance? Right. But in today's environment. Surely that's a really challenge, right? There's a big piece of leadership, which is that trust? Yeah, We talk about trust all the time in leadership. You want them to buy and trust you. But that kind of goes both ways. That's a difficult one, particularly what Jay saying with these remote workers as well. Do you want to manage someone to from 9 to 5? That's work, and then from 5 to 9 is life? Is that reality? Or maybe there's a soccer game. Football for the benefit that was going to say, What are you talking about? Yeah, maybe there's a There's a football match at 3 30 that my son's playing

[00:27:24] spk_0: non NFL non NFL just on and there's a queue to get.

[00:27:28] spk_1: And there's a cute again, thank you very much. And of course I'm precious to the £5 to get. But, you know, do I want Thio on the flip side, Say to my my guy, Yeah, well, you can't go because it's a 3 30. Or do I manage outcomes? Don't try and create an environment for someone and say, Hey, you've been doing a great job. I you know, I wanted to take ownership of what he's doing. Even doing a great job. We got this really important project needs to be in by next Friday. You're the guy. How would you feel? Would you like to do it? Oh, yeah. Thanks. Thanks very much. Do I now manage him from 9 to 5? I mean, he misses his his kids football match, and so he's not as happy as you say Or do I manage to the outcome? Onda let him kind of be flexible with the hours that he does it in a long as he delivers. But that's difficult because leaders I am skeptical, right? You're always worried that people might just take the life bit a little bit too far on dso. How do you get the balance between having the appropriate control measures in place but trusting your people to deliver outside of 9 to 5? Do

[00:28:33] spk_2: you think

[00:28:33] spk_0: that that's common, though? Do you think that most people go outcome based, opposed to, let's say, quote unquote hourly base, Even though there are salary person,

[00:28:40] spk_1: I think is moving that way. I think when you look, you know, that's pioneered by technology companies and these forward thinking organizations that get rid of offices. It's all open plan, and there are, you know, slides that you can go down and nap pods and all that kind of stuff. Eso and I think I think what happens is, is is is kind of the layers of an onion, right? You've got the outer layer of these businesses are kind of earlier doctors and pioneer the way on. Then slowly it becomes normal on becomes more of an expectation. And so, as you get to the that, you know, you work your way through. These companies in the inner layer is a kind of forced to try and find a way to change so they can attract the best talent because that starts to become something that people are looking for

[00:29:23] spk_0: absolutely. And I think 11 interesting point of that is you can actually measure this, and it's fairly easy to measure. If you go into an organization, you start doing surveys. One question that we ask is, how often does your boss talk about challenges at home? How often do you talk to your boss about challenges at home on Do you could tell there. There is a definite shift. There is an old school way of thinking that you know you shall work. However many hours it takes tow, satisfy the company's needs. And there's a new way of thinking that says, You know, let's measure the outcomes. Let's manage to the outcomes. And if people are performing, heck, yeah, they deserve to have a little bit extra time at home and specifically the way I measure it when somebody is home, are they truly home and present? Or are they always watching their emails? Are they always watching their text because they're worried that their boss is gonna text them and have another crucial, super important thing that they need to talk about it? Nine o'clock when you're trying to talk to your kids, for instance, me just being totally transparent. I used to be that worker. I used to be that person that tried to satisfy the company because I thought if I could climb that corporate ladder, I would one day be happy. And what I ended up doing is I sacrifice so many years with my son years that I will never get back years that I was never present for a job that I was a ghost when I left two weeks later, I'm gonna tell you, he might use this this audio clip against you at some point. Just wanna be Oh, I'm transparent with him. I tell him I'm like, Hey, buddy, when I was when you were younger, I was not present. And I need you to hold me accountable. So leaders not only just at work, but it's a home to Are you communicating the right message at home? Is there a plan for work? Life balance? Eso Let's go a little bit deeper because you're using the word transparent if you're okay with it. What did your wife think during this time frame? You know, it's kind of the old school thinking. Um, unfortunately, I had been a part of some organizations that were very old school and thought and so that was normal. She had seen that her whole life, so she thought that was normal. So we had to kind of break through that barrier together and say This is not where we wanna be. And to be perfectly honest, thio kind of break that mold and start something brand new I took a very successful career and said, I'm done with that and I moved to Guam with my family on DSO. When you live on an island that is eight miles wide by 24 miles long, you were forced to get to know your family, your forced thio be there. And so my my kid, my son, who's who's actually my hero, who I was I had a distant relationship with very quickly became my shadow. Um, he's 14. He was five at the time. We still talk about Guam daily, if not, you know, definitely weekly. But we talk about it all the time and about how my whole perspective changes. So when we left Guam, when I started interviewing with companies, it was much less about the title in the role of the compensation. And it was more about how do you treat our families? How how are you expecting me to behave within this organization? That's very neat. That's very neat. I would imagine that had to be such a unique experience there. How long were you there? If you don't mind me asking 18 months, 18 was pretty awesome. So a couple questions real quick. If you could tell people that there is a book that you read that changed your style of leadership, what would you say the book is? And we're gonna start off with Rich this

[00:32:43] spk_1: time? Well, I think, um, you know, I was fortunate to do a lot of studying with my MBA, and I had a very, very much of focus on leadership, right? But I think it's the thing that I mentioned earlier. It's a Hershey and bland child situational leadership. I think that really does bring into focus treat everybody different to treat them the same. And so I would say, if you're gonna read something, read that

[00:33:05] spk_0: so 33 books just because, Well, I said, when you go with three, but here's my Amazon link translate. But it's actually it's actually tremendous because they all work in tandem. Andi, I love that book. Amazing. In fact, I'd like to do a lot of work with Blanchard. I think that they have great. I

[00:33:23] spk_1: was actually on your laptop earlier, and I noticed among some of them are some of the links. One of them was, you know, professional and it was how she's

[00:33:31] spk_0: awesome So, um, what I like is the power of habit by Charles Do Big Great book Because it teaches you that, you know, you have all these habits built into who you are and you can't get rid of them. All you can do is replace him. And I thought, Wow, that's very poignant. That's that's an interesting way to look at things. Uh, the next one, Jim Collins from good to great Andi. That's where it talks about leaving the ego of the door, he goes, never lead to continued excellence. And then Simon Sinek Start with Why? And I know that's cliche and he's so out there. Um, he's everywhere now,

[00:34:03] spk_1: but there's a reason for

[00:34:04] spk_0: that. There's a reason for that because he is all about Why are you doing that? So if you look at your employees, if you're my employee, I have Thio as a leader. Say, why is rich here? Why does he want to be a part of this organization? And why does it even matter? So those are my three, you know, it's it's all good. Well, I appreciate the time this afternoon, especially going over all of this information now, Josh If more people want to know about you in the organization that your your fronting, where can they go to find out more? Absolutely. You can go to ignite the journey dot com That's our website. You can follow me on linked in. I am on the Facebook. I am on Facebook That speaks to my age, but yeah, we'd love to hear from you love to talk to you more about how we might be able to support your organization. And we'll talk about yourself.

[00:34:47] spk_1: Yeah, I think for us, you know, if you'd like to learn more about kind of the safety and security related products that that we supply to help you make a difference, you can visit SG well. Use a dot com for the U. S. And for internationally SG world dot com.

[00:35:01] spk_0: And then if you want to partake in the event that they have coming up in 2021 it will be safety Day 2021. You could go to a cfs dot or form or information. Gentlemen, I appreciate the time this afternoon. Thank you. And we'll see you next time. Thank you, Jay. Well, this brings another episode of the J. Allen show to an end. Hopefully, you enjoyed the conversation with Joshua Cut Down and Richard Nichols, like I said earlier from, or information about what they have going on, you could go to a. C. F s dot org's all kinds of interesting things on that particular website. Anyways, thank you for always being the best part of safety FM, and that is the listener. Safety FM is the home of real safety talk. You wanna come out, hang out with us, do some different things. You come to the website at safety FM dot com. We are always streaming 24 hours a day, seven days a week, right there on safety FM dot com. You can also gather the different APs on where we're available to stream and keep in mind. Like always, it's for free. Don't worry. We'll be back with another episode before too long. Goodbye for now. Want more of the J. Allen show Built You? Safety FM dot com.

[00:36:21] spk_2: The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guests, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. They should not be utilized in the real world as the only solution available as they are based only on very limited and dated open source information. Assumptions made within this analysis are not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast, maybe reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical Elektronik recording or otherwise, without prior written commission of the creator of the podcast, Jay Allen.