Safety FM with Jay Allen
Allan James Moore
June 2, 2020
Today on The Jay Allen Show, we speak with Allan James Moore. Allan is an inspirational and experiential keynote speaker. During the conversation, Allan and Jay discuss the pain for pain and what happens inside of our workplaces because of it. Enjoy it all today on The Jay Allen Show

This is what this show is brought to you by Safety Safety FM dot life Hello and welcome to this all new episode of the J. Allen Show. Today's Tuesday, June, the second of 2020. I hope all is well in your neck of the woods, some interesting times going on right now, with the protests going around the world, the pandemic that's taking place, a lot of things to talk about and a lot of things to think about at this particular moment. A zai Say this. I want a reference that a few weeks ago we had an episode talking about pain with pain, and this is where this conversation's going to start.

 This is a conversation that I have today with Alan James more, and we take a deep dive into that particular conversation. You might be sitting there going Tell me a little bit more about Alan James, more so let me do that real quick. Having traveled to over 50 countries and worked on four continents, Allen is skilled at using cultural fluency to connect with diverse audiences. He capitalizes on his professional background in stand up comedy, captivate his audience through humor, storytelling and techniques. Allen has a master's degree in leadership in for over 14 years of experience in the environmental, health and safety field and have helped enrich the content of his well crafted presentations.  Moreover, he has gained experience with large groups. He gained experience with large groups facilitation through the various presentation, speeches and workshops that he delivered in Mandarin in English while working in Thai wine, China in Canada. This has helped him design group experiences to get his audience engaged in, excited to participate and network. So let's not take too long to get this whole conversation started and let me welcome Alan James War to the show. So I appreciate number one. You agreeing to come on? So Number two I knew that we kind of interactive based on a social media post, and I was interested in what you had to say.  Well, yes. So what? What? What I reacted to was was the post. The pain for pain was your I don't know. It was kind of a short not a not a full podcast. Maybe about five minutes long, and, you know, it was basically you're you're bringing pain into a conversation in the workplace. And then that kind of opens up. You know, an opportunity for the other person to exchange their pain, and nothing really positive comes from it. And it reminded me of my of a speech that I that I have been giving recently, and I call it CIS office relationships.  And the reason why I do that is because it's emulate. You know, the metaphor of King Sisyphus, who was punished by the Greek gods for treachery and deceit and self aggrandizing and made to push an enormous boulder uphill. And when you reach the top of the hill, that boulder would just come rolling down again. And this metaphor kind of reminded me of some of the relationships that I had forged at work. I you know, I'm a little bit I can I can be a little bit quick tempered and reactionary sometimes.  And you know, you you build up these relationships with people by, you know, putting emotional are making deposits in their emotional bank account every single day. How are you? Great work? How was your weekend? All that kind of stuff And you know, the Stephen R. Covey type stuff, and then one day. You know, you kind of speak sharply to that person, or you don't fully listen to them or respect them or or whatever it might be. And all of a sudden, everything that you've put into that emotional bank account gets withdrawn and it just rains that emotional bank account in one.  You know, it can happen over three seconds. It happened over a look, and all of a sudden down comes the boulder and me being like Sisyphus, I have to then push that boulder back up the hill again. And it's kind of like, you know, a few months later, I've built it up again, the boulders at the top of the hill. I make another silly comment, and down comes the boulder. Rinse and repeat, and that's that's kind of where I was likening it to. Well, it means you take a look at it in being is the tree.  You have to go out and actually speak to large groups of people in regards of having this discussion. Now that we're in this whole different world, where everything's almost virtual, it's so much easier to do that now. What kind of impact are you seeing what? Some of the things that are potentially occurring on social media or some of these virtual interactions we have with our co workers and how that can apply. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think that right now, you know, I think this will change, But right now we're being a little bit more kind to each other because we realize that everybody is going through something.  You know, there's certain people that have it a lot harder than other people. But regardless of who you are, you're being impacted by this. So I think we're speaking a little more kindly to each other, and I think that's a really good thing. And I hope that as this starts to normalize and you know, we come out of this thing and we get used to our new normal, so to speak, I hope that that persists. I hope that we're able to, you know, be very careful with the words that we choose when we're in a virtual setting to know that you know, a smile is not behind that necessarily.  Um, you know, if if your video is not 1 to 1, let's say eso the non verbal is not there toe to cover those bases for you. If you're less, they telling a joke. It may not be perceived like that's we just We really need to be careful and we need to continue to be kind. Well, I can say that the smiling with your eyes is almost out the window at the moment with everything that's going on, especially if you're not doing anything. Video, like something like right now is we're having this conversation.  We're not in the same room, but we're doing it over a computer so you could not see how I'm reacting to some of the things that you're saying and how you know vice versa. So how does that impact when you're having these conversations? What could you? What could be some of those tell tale marks as you move forward to make sure that people know that you know you're accepting what they have to say. You don't want to interrupt me like Ah ha, yeah, How could you do certain things there to be able to assess, though?  Well, I think that's that's a great question, Jay, I think. But what we can do is that we can qualify people's opinions. Well, first off, we can wait for the period right sometimes. And that's gonna be very difficult for us. You know, from you know, if you're facilitating a virtual workshop, for example, your job as a facilitator is to stop those people who are a bit verbose. So that long winded, right? Eso you will have to sometimes cut people off. But in a regular conversation like we're having right now, it's It's being respectful, waiting for the period waiting till they're actually stopped, uh, speaking and sharing their point and then qualifying their opinion.  And that's going to take a little bit longer. So, you know, when a safety setting and I was in a you know, a safety focus group last week and someone would say, You know, I think that we need to put pylons around our vehicles so that we, you know, automatically do a 360 degree inspection of our trucks or vehicles before we leave right by picking up the pylons and stuff like that. And afterwards, instead of me saying Okay, cool, who's next, right? I have to maybe say I think that's a really good idea.  It also allows other contractors on site to see that were, you know, our companies being more diligent and, you know, by making our vehicles more visible to them, you know, just something qualifying like that. It doesn't have to be long, but it it makes them feel like their opinion was valid. So do you think that before we start having a conversation, especially dealing this with this virtually? Should we almost take a personal inventory of ourselves before those conversations starts? Just to make sure that we're almost like on an even playing field?  Would you be referring to like a social hierarchy or a positional hierarchy? Well, I'm talking about how you were saying right now that you put pylons around the car, so that way you're doing a 3 60 overview. I'm just talking about doing almost like an over your view. Let's call most look at it is like you're clearing your mind before you start these conversations because, as you were seeing a little bit before, it's really easy toe. You know, say hello. Say goodbye. How are you doing on a daily basis?  But the moment that you do that sharp remark, it can change everything So is it really doing like that personal inventory? Before that comment might potentially come out? I see what you mean. J absolutely 100%. You know, my my sister office relationships. Uh um, speech is actually related to a person that I work with, and I still work with them. This person throws out those passive aggressive little comments, and then I blow up and then down comes the boulder. So what I started to do was I built, But what I kind of call a leadership tool belt and one of those things that was on my tool belt was a differentiated conversation.  And that's basically breaking the song and dance that you have with this person. They see the passive aggressive comment I blow up. Down comes the boulder. I'm gonna change that a little bit. I'm going to before the meeting, 5 10 minutes before that meeting, I take a deep breath and I anticipate within the meeting agenda, I say, You know what? There's a sticking point right there, And if that person says, you know, they've made a few comments on the email thread leading up to this meeting, I kind of have a feeling that it's a bit of a contentious point.  They may go there, and when I say go there, they may go to their weaponry, which is, in this person's case, passive aggressive, which is my least favorite weapon. Uh, so they may go there, and if they go there, what am I going to do to make sure that that Boulder doesn't come down the hill and to make sure that I don't create tension on the call for everybody that's there? Because, really, that's Ah, that's a self serving thing that I do. And when I when I have that five minute little pregame, I avoid So, yeah, absolutely, Jay, I think.  I think going into these things don't just, you know, be in your pajama bottoms with your your bunny slippers and sit down and think it's fine if there's gonna be some some items that are contentious, address them beforehand in your head. Hey, Jay just wanted to tell you I have a new book, and it seems kind of timely, although I didn't write it for a global pandemic. And by the way, this is my 1st 1 It seems to have lots of legs on this topic. The book's called When the Worst Accident Happens and it's a field guide to understanding how to begin a restorative process of responding to a horrible event.  That book is available now on Amazon. I think you'd like it. Tell all your friends have you been considering wanting to take the safety consulted blueprint course online. But when you throw a monkey wrench into your thoughts, I'm gonna do alive. Three day event on June is going to be a workshop that is me walking through this court step by step by step each day. July 28 July 29th in July 30th from 9 a.m. Standard timeto 1 p.m. Eastern Standard time. We're gonna have an intimate group of maximum 15 participants, so register today.  Sheldon Prima's dot com Backslash live for safety Consultant Blueprint So good is Sheldon Prima's dot com backslash live register today, and we are back on the J. Allen show on safety. And so, Alan, let me ask, When did you come to the point where you started giving some relief deep thoughts into some of these things where you're realizing there are certain changes that you needed to do within yourself that this was something that you started looking at. Well, it's It's when I read Read Covey's you know, peace on that and just started to look at myself and thought, My goodness, I really spend my spin, my wheels on this thing and I create you know, there's there's a kind of a radial expression on this, that there's a ripple effect on this because that person they have, you know, their social network within within the company.  So then they're going to the coffee station and saying, Well, can you believe what what Alan did to me on this? And you know, they're sort of doing their victim conversation, that I'm doing my little conversation and then we're kind of building camps and nobody's really winning in that I'm not entirely wrong. I'm not entirely right. Neither they eso ItT's. Really there's no productive out outcome for either of us. It's a lot of pain for this person is a lot of pain for me on gets wasted pain because I respect this person's professionalism and their ability to do their job.  So ah, productive outcome is is professional, respectful communication, and that's and that's basically yeah, reading Covey's thing. I just kind of changed me there. And what are we talking about? Timeline. When this was kind of open to you that you saw this and said, Okay, this is what I need to move forward with. Well, is a couple of years ago, I had finished a master's degree in leadership out at Royal Roads University. I call it the School for the Gifted because it was featured in the X Men.  Is that one and drive? But you actually have two hours. Do you have any kind of mutant we need to know about? Well, that's basically you know, what my mom says whenever I say school for the gifted, she's like, actually, isn't that the school from unions? And she's right. My mutant power is making fun of my mom Scottish accent. So that's, uh, that's for another time. But oh ma e, she'll probably listen to this later, so I won't do that. But yeah, that was basically the time when I started to explore these things and going through all the different texts which confirmed it, you know, starting with Covey and going into a you know, Patrick Lynch, Yoni and Sanjay and Posner.  And like every single one of these books was sort of like basically speaking to me and saying, Al, you got this wrong stop, you know, doing, you know, using the exact same tool, the hammer and thinking everything is a nail, you know, Um and that was it. It was just basically, uh, discovery. So what? At what point do you decide that you want to go on, become an inspirational speaker and go out and share some of this messaging? Well, I've been doing that for for a lot of years.  I cut my teeth actually in in stand up comedy years ago, and and then, oddly enough, I I had learned how to speak Mandarin. So I was. I had moved to Taiwan and I was offered a job there, and so I I really, you know, in terms of an occupational setting, I started speaking public speaking in Mandarin, which which was a bit odd, for sure, because my manager is not, you know, not native Speaker by any means. But I started to notice that bringing, fusing the humor, um, into into my speeches, especially safety speeches which quite often could be pretty dry.  Um, you know, and dictatorial. Uh, I would confuse those two things together. I noticed a different reaction from the audience and that they were more engaged. And, you know, if I was bringing in other messaging, not just, you know, make sure you watch out for slips, trips and photos or pinch points. There's things like that. When I was when I was talking about safety, leadership or communication for safety where, you know, you know, safety practitioners, they need Teoh get, you know, get a report with the people that they're trying to protect.  They need to ingratiate themselves to the workforce. They don't need to, you know, win a popularity contest, but they have to be reasonable and approachable. So once I started to bring those other aspects into my speeches, I got a great response from it. And, you know, I was working for Stanley Tools over in Taiwan, and they would actually send me over to China to some of our tier one and tier two suppliers. Toe provide thes thes kind of inspirational safety messages to them, and and the feedback was great.  So I carried it on when I moved back to Canada. So, you know, I have to ask is so the some of the first speeches that you're doing are in full blown Mandarin? Have you done already practice here and had already practiced in Canada before you go out there, or how does that end up taking place? No, no, I I did them I e yeah, Yeah, it was It was very intimidating. My my time in these co workers. You know, the most lovely people time when these people are just just absolutely lovely and warm kind.  And they could see the stress on my face. And they helped me develop these speeches and, you know, made sure that that there were little, you know, my my Mandarin is you know, it's not bad, but they were like, No, no, say it this way. Say it that way. So it had more humor and had more impact. So, um, and then and then in English, um, you know, I guess I'm a little more of a storyteller. Um, when I when I when I do my speeches in English than I Well, as I look at some of this and here's what something that I have been saying for years that a lot of the speeches that were able to do were able to go out.  But it's almost like reunifying redefining a comedy act because you're going out there and you're you're doing this and you might go to one location and it goes well, this way, and then you have to change it up a little bit. Can you see some association or some similarities as refining your comedy act as doing some of the speeches out in the general public? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I definitely I think I understand. Your question is being, um you know, kind of bringing the comedy act to the stage is that I absolutely do see that.  And it was, you know, at first when I first started to think about doing this, going to conferences and speaking, being doing the key note thing, I kind of had this image in my head like, Oh, no, you have to be serious. You can't do this. This is not something you can dio. And then I saw a guy named Alan quickly. I'm not sure if you you know Alan quickly. Great guy. You should Maybe you think about having on your on your program one day. And he did it.  He was humorous and lighthearted, and he interacted with the audience. And I thought, and that just kind of gave me the inspiration to say yes, Why not? But why? Why do I have to be able? What is safety? Have to be so serious? Um, all the time, right? I know. I understand the critical, you know, safety conversations, investigations or serious. But why do we have Teoh gather here and be so serious and also sitting in the back of the room for so many boring safety speeches? You know, I thought, Why is this poor person at the front of the room have to speak for an hour or an hour and 1/2 on a slide show?  Why can't we try to harvest the collective intelligence of the 203 100 people? Safety professionals in this room, you know, and really create an interactive experiential event? And and so that's how once I once I read eso Alan quickly and then I read Peter Blocks book on consulting, where he he said, You have to have audience engagement. The talking head is is no more. Then I fused those together with the comedy and all the rest of it storytelling and, uh, you know, uh, set out Teoh D'Aquino Hop University.  We cut the bull out of human and organisational performance training. We were born out of Necessity way. Hear it all the time. Human an organization. Performance courses are expensive and hard to find. Safety classes Put me to sleep. Help. So we did. We offer on demand high quality online courses in human and organisational performance safety and leadership all in by season safety and hot practitioners. No need to schedule time for that conference. No need to track down the latest guru in no stuffy classroom required. Join us Day at hot university dot org's.  That's h o p university dot org. Thank you for listening to safety FM. We are here to help you in this time of need. Make sure to join us on Patri on ford slash Safety of Em Way are back on the J. Allen Show on safety FM. So when you out there now and you're doing these speeches number one? What kind of what kind of companies do you normally get to interact with in the number two. How how do you get him to start talking? Because I know that sometimes it's not the easiest thing, Especially if you're doing a keynote, depending on how they have it set up.  If you're the 1st 1 out the gate, normally they could. The crowd is and as open as if you have somebody kind of warming them up. So how does how does that both of those things go for you? Yes. So your first question, What kind of companies? I mean, I'm in Calgary, so, you know, the energy sector is is Ah is Ah, you know what? We're kind of going going towards and or, you know, the mining sector in Eastern British Columbia. So, you know, the Imperial Oil's or medium sized Maggie Energies.  You know, these kind of companies will have me come in for annual general meeting, or or ah, quarterly safety meeting or a project kickoff and things like that on I also speak, you know, at the conferences as well. Um, and basically yeah, you know, I experienced every once in a while I experience a little bit of resistance to this especially if I have an opening Kino. But the opening keynote is actually the best place to do this. This interactive model and because what? What I do is I tell, ah, humorous story.  That's, you know, maybe anywhere from 8 to 12 minutes long. Um, and then I go into group work, and I want them to comment. They break into groups, you know, preferably circular tables of 5 to 10 people. And they discuss what, You know who the actors were in my story. Like, for example, I dio one of the one of the key notes. One of my most popular keynotes is, um I got charged by elephants in Africa and yeah, it was it was crazy. And it's a true story. Uh, and it was crazy.  Um, you know, there was There was a lot kinds of different safety leaders in the story embedded in It s oh, there's the good, the bad and the ugly. Safety leader, right? Just like the Clint Eastwood movie. And, you know, the good safety leader warned everybody about the hazards before we went out there. You know, he's a local guy and he said, You know, if an elephant. You know, the South African guy. And he said, You know, if an elephant Georges you you must not run nine times side of did.  It's only a mock charge, but if you run, it might turn into a real judge. So promise me that you went around right? And so he's he's the good guy. And the bad guy is the, you know, the local guide who, you know, we we address our safety concerns with him after the elephants are flapping their ears and showing all this aggressive behavior going up on their hind legs and roaring and and, you know, we said, Hey, the, you know, man, like it Can we leave like we're pretty scared here and then, you know, he was very condescending and said, You know, relax, boss.  Don't worry. Go take some pizzas. You know, like, you know, sloughing sloughing us off. And I think everyone in the workplace has a right to, uh, you know, express their opinion, right? And then there's the ugly safety leader myself, because I actually I did run. I didn't listen to to, uh, the original guy, the good, the good safety leader and Iran and I also used what's called mitigated speech when addressing my safety concerns with the local guide. I mean, I'm paying this guy. Why didn't I just speak up and be firm and say, Listen, we don't feel safe, Take us out of here right now, you know?  So what I do is I get the audience to talk about the good safety leader, and then we have an open discussion, and I and after the open discussion where I let them share their opinions, you know, with, uh, you know, with a with a throat with a microphone. Then I address I say, my opinion of who I think the good safety leader is in the bad and the ugly. And then I relate it to the three fundamental rights of all Canadian employees, which which is embedded in OSHA as well the right to know about the hazards in the workplace, the right to participate in assessing and controlling the hazards in your workplace, and the right to refuse unsafe for dangerous work.  That's excellent. Such an interesting approach. I have never heard of anybody doing it in that fashion that such sounds like a great story for sure. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of fun. I do. I do a lot of accents in it, and so people you know are laughing and having fun with it. And there's there's a lot of tension built built into it. So as a keynote, it it works so pretty well And, you know, and on top of that, if people are looking for you know, a second our or 1/3 hour, I add things like, you know, a World Cafe or a Socratic Circle to just promote even mawr cross pollination of ideas amongst my audience.  That's that's great. So what are some of the other? Some of the other speeches that you do, if you don't mind me asking. Oh, absolutely, eso another one that I do is I call it communication for safety. So I start off with with Newfoundland slang, and Newfoundland is I guess it's similar Teoh in the United States. Fargo. It's probably our Fargo, but their accent on their wonderful, warm, wonderful people, brilliant people. But their accent makes Fargo sounds sound like the Queen's English. It really does. They've got their own set of slang and all the rest of it, and So I worked out there a little bit.  And with amidst all the slang and all that kind of the cultural differences, we really struggled, you know, to get the safety program on track. And and it was just a constant back and forth. And it was really funny all the things that took place. So I share. I share that as an opener. Then I do a similar thing. We do the, uh you know, um you know, what do you think were some of the safety communication issues in the story? And what are some of the, you know, safety communication issues that that you have at your work place?  And I call it safety dissidents. Um, you piece basically people who do not buy into the safety program at all. And that's what I faced out there. It's just a different culture, and they weren't buying it even to the minimal PP level. I mean, you know, operating a chainsaw without a mask on silly things like that, like just absurd. And I and I talked to people because people people really want to share their stories, even even introverted people. Everybody wants to share their stories And if I can create, If I can set the context with my own story where you know, I I often play the hell, um, in this story, its mistakes that I have made misinterpretations and their humorous and then So when you know, it kind of me, I feel like it makes people feel comfortable so that they can share their own stories about safety dissidents that they've encountered.  And almost everybody has a story, especially people that are of of, ah, you know, my vintage 40 or above. We've had that. Where you've got that safety dissident. Who says safety Schmidt, if he would. You know, What is this? Nobody moves. Nobody gets hurt. What are we talking about here? I got I don't have a budget or time for this, you know? So we go into that, Then I go into the system fis relationships speech. After we finished the first group work. And then I am I show a video actually of the UFC.  That reality show. I don't know if you've ever ever seen that, But off course. Of course I have. I love me some mixed martial arts. Oh, fantastic. Right on J. That's awesome. It's It's season one, and it's just the most wonderful communication, like how not to and you've got. It's a wonderful show because they they, you know, they stick all the She's basically animals, the toughest dudes in the world into one house, and they stock it full of alcohol and they going buy groceries based on what you know, one guy says, I like asparagus.  Another guy says, I like a little bit of steak, whatever, and they don't buy like enough almost so they make it even even food is competitive. It's hilarious. And so this one case, there's Ah, Stephan Bonnar, who's a heavyweight or a bleed, a light heavyweight anyway. CC's both six foot 4 £205 and then, um, uh, he's he's in the kitchen and he realizes that if somebody has just clipped all the heads off of the asparagus, which is the tastiest part, of course nobody wants to stocks. And ah, And then there's another competitors who's who's a lightweight.  Diego Sanchez. Ah, little little miniature psychopath and and he's he's the one who's been cutting the heads off, and putting them in the blender is very selfish thing to do. And so he confronts, um, and and instead of sort of saying, you know, hey, you know, hey, Diego, like, maybe maybe you could leave a couple of those out or I understand you want to make your shake. Could you maybe take half of them or something like that? He goes full condescending on any and he says, Like, Who wants to eat stocks seriously?  And of course, being, you know, analogue female Diego Sanchez. He gets up his defensive wall immediately, right? And so now it's a con for tent confrontation. And, of course, behind all this, if they actually engage in a physical battle within the house, they're kicked out of the house. But really, the only tool that the two of them have to operate with is respectful dialogue. And so what I do is I show this two minute clip, and then I get the audience to comment on on where they went wrong and how they could make the situation more respectful and productive.  And how many times do people respond? Well, their cage fighters, they don't know any better. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's there's my roles that would reveal that thought for sure. But you know, I mean, Stephan Bonnar actually has a bachelors degree in commerce, So I mean, he's a smart enough guy that he could figure out how to approach this in a different way. Well, it's It's actually funny that you bring that up because some people might not know this, but Stephan Bonnar and my God, I'm gonna forget the guy's name that he fought in the finals course Griffin.  But that was actually the reason why the UFC has made it as a company because of the fight that they had that that finale because the ratings kept on going up because people were calling other people. You need to wash this, you need to watch us. You need to watch this. And that's how the UFC was into sticking around cause they almost I ended up having a file for bankruptcy. I know too much for me. Absolutely true. It was a watershed moment, for for that organization. It was like watching rocky form.  Alan, if people want to Nome or information about you, or actually be able to book you for one of your for, one of your key notes were what they need to go to get that. Well, they could go to my website and that's Ah, journey. Leadership dossier. They could find my information there. I'm also available on LinkedIn and Twitter. Eso Alan James more on lengthen love toe Have safety conversations with absolutely anybody on Twitter. Alan James more Cut the e off the end. Um, one of the number one.  That's where I'm at. That's my twitter handle. Um, yeah. So I'm absolutely available toe chat to anybody who wants to talk about safety or leadership. Well, Alan, I really do appreciate you coming on to the show. Thanks. Thanks for having me, Jay. Well, thank you for coming out and taking another listen to the J. Allen show. I truly hope that you enjoyed this episode with Alan James. More boy, did he have an interesting story on how some of these speeches air done in really taking that deep dive into pain for pain?  I hope that messaging does get across, especially in these interesting times. Before I let you go and love to let you know about a contest that we have going on right now at safety FM, we are looking for the next big safety podcast. If you do get the opportunity, please come to our website safety FM dot com Ford slash Contest. And we're looking for the next big safety podcast to join our network of podcasters and broadcasters go there for more details. The winner will get their show hosted on our server for year and also have access to our broadcast network.  You're interested? Police come to the website like I said. Safety FM dot com Ford slash contest. Well, this will bring another episode of the jail and show to an end. Thank you for being the best part of safety FM, the listener or the safety FM. ER, as I like to call it, will be back with another episode before too long. Goodbye for now. Once more, the J. Allen show the views and opinions expressed on this podcast or those of the host and its guest, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company.  Examples of analysis discussed within with podcast are only example. It's not be utilized in the real world at the only solution available as they're based only on very limited. Undated Open source information assumptions made within this analysis or not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, Elektronik, recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast, J. Allen.