Plus, hear about a practical yet timeless advice he unpacks that would separate the 'great' from the 'good' in life. 

Timestamps:
00:01:10 | To Granny With Love
00:02:37 | Building the Portfolio
00:06:44 | Investments Everywhere
00:08:49 | Home and Family
00:09:29 | Challenges and Lessons
00:12:48 | That Aha Moment
00:16:02 | Strategies — To Each His Own
00:18:08 | The Impact of Parents, Mentors, and Books
00:20:16 | The Power of Habit
00:23:08 | Chill Out, Be Real
00:24:39 | On Personal Goals
00:26:44 | An Attitude of Gratitude
00:28:49 | Amidst Life Changes

Resources and Links:

But for me, that informed a lot of my strategy, which is try and save up to buy the best assets, the top quartile assets in the class you're going to buy—whether it's property or stocks. And if it is property, like, you know, [in] the premium areas, or the premium parts of the areas you're going to invest in. 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re back with the remarkable John Foong, the chief revenue officer of Domain. With over 20 years of investing experience, he unboxes his own time-proven strategy, how two Cairns properties paid for all his business school expenses, and the secret of how he went from zero to 10 in the first decade of his investing journey!

Tyrone Shum:   

Reminiscing his relationship with his grandmother, Foong elaborates on the lasting impact she has had on his own journey—in life and in investing.

Yeah, I was very, very close to my grandmother. Very, very close. 

She was the one who, I guess, raised me most, particularly when my mom and dad were both working. So she was the chauffeur, the cook, the childcare, the disciplinarian.

She'd be the one, well, when I was playing piano, looking at the clock with, I don't think it was an actual stick, but like a threat in one hand and Tim Tams in the other. [indiscernible] my piano practice. [Indiscernible] you know, obese-related problems as a child and my lack of skill in sports. 

Even when I had turned 18, and I lived at home with her, we had a pretty cool arrangement where we moved out of our family home and moved to a set of apartments—me and my sister, [and] my granny lived in one apartment. And we helped to look after her, and she looked after us, and my mom and dad was [indiscernible].

I was extremely close to Granny. She was very much a second mother to me. And so she had very, very strong ideas about what 'great' looked like. And she would in classic-ethnic-migrant-grandmother style, pass them on to me—whether to a piano, my studies, or, in this case, about property. 

When she spoke, I listened. And by that time I was critically evaluated. But actually, the book we'd read together and the TV shows we watched together about it made a lot of sense. 

Tyrone Shum:   

With more than two decades under his belt, Foong shares his family's investing practices, touching on how his dad and family were central in developing the strategy he has been using to accumulate properties over the years.

Me, my dad, and my sister, and my family kind of stumbled upon a few investment properties that mostly worked pretty well for us. There was a lot of—this is back in the late '90s [and] early 2000s.

Australians has always loved property. I think at that time, there was an appreciation of the power of not even negative gearing, I call it positive gearing. I'm not sure what [indiscernible] is, but the idea is that you accrue cash flow-positive properties that have a meaningful chance of equity upside. 

You invest in those. They pay for themselves; the the rental pays for the interest. You still leverage as much as you can. You put down 20% [and] leverage 80%. But then as the capital gains appreciates, you invest that capital gains in getting another loan for the house. 

And then for me at that time, too, I was started off, you know, earning not that much money as a scholarship student. But then [when] I went to consulting and things like that, my income increased, I'd say, exponentially right over the next two years. 

So that was our kind of thinking—myself, my dad and my sister in particular at the time. And so we started off with one property. 

But we were very fortunate through a combination of capital gains, and me getting graduation jobs, that we were able to buy new properties pretty quickly. 

And we had a theory that we would not buy in Sydney, because by that time, it was already quite expensive. 

Apartments were cheap. But you know, even then a house is $500,000. You could buy one, but that'd be it. Right? And ideally, you'd live in it. Instead of doing that, we decided to go to capital cities.

The whole idea of let's find capital cities [and] the universities, [on] the belief that both migrants and people will continue to flow into cities. We didn't buy at the heart of the city; we didn't  buy in the most expensive areas. 

We would typically look for three-bedroom, two-bathroom houses within a 15- to 20-minute drive of the city. And we identified a few areas, in particular, Perth, Adelaide, Canberra, the Gold Coast and Cairns was one of our key areas—as opposed to Sydney and Melbourne in contrast. 

We were pretty lucky at the time. And we'd open up the real estate magazines at the time. And then just look at postcodes where there had been a good amount of capital growth in the last 12 months—very similar to how people tend to pick world stocks, which is you're not trying to buy at the bottom, you buy on the way up, and you kind of go, 'Great, we're going to affect it to do spread betting there'.  

But we're not just going to buy at random. We're going to go over there and really familiarise ourselves with those places. 

In particular, these places like Armadale in Perth, and these places particularly areas of Cairns—a place like Elizabeth in Adelaide, right. 

My dad's a lot at work and, being a real estate himself, he was able to really find all the favour with great property managers and understand the nuances of the city, not just like go, 'Great, we're going to buy a house in Perth'. But actually we're going to find the street, the suburb, the school that makes sense.

Because in all these places, you find out that, at that time, [has a] $100,000 price point— that could get you maybe the next place which is where all the doctors [and] professionals could move here, or if you're in the wrong place, it becomes potentially pretty rough areas. So it's a tough call you've got to make. 

We were very fortunate that the first few bets we made, particularly Perth with the space called Armadale and then Cairns, we did really, really well. In this the first part was it is our investing. We were lucky that those places we invested in— those places took off.

You'd see that they would double in price within three or four years. You know you couldn't predict those kinds of gains, but they really played into our strategies. So that we were able to go from one property for me. 

By the time I was in business school, I'd have like 10 different properties around Australia.

It isn't fine houses or anything like that. But they're houses, which a lot of them would double or triple in value. So I was very fortunate in the first five or 10 years, you know, going from zero to one to 10. 

That was actually a lot of what I [used to] pay for my expenses in a business school. Business school in the States is very expensive, even though I was on scholarship and things in that nature, you know, we're still talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. But the capital gains in two Cairns properties paid for all of that.

Wow, that's phenomenal. 

Yeah, very, very, very lucky, and [that's due to] a lot of the foresight of my dad and my granny to get us early into this. 

Tyrone Shum:   

Working oversees did not stop Foong from investing in property. In fact, in the period he found himself in the U.S. already investing, pursuing his two master's degrees, and fulfilling his calling in the corporate field, he still had his eyes on Australia's property space.

By that time, we had a bunch of properties in Australia. 

My intention with Australia was to move back. I thought it'd be [like], 'Great, I'll do two years in the U.S. for business and then move back'. [But it was more like] 'Oh actually, [here is] a cool opportunity in Europe; let me stay there longer'. I was like, 'Well, I'll be here for a few years and I'll move back. [But again it was like] 'Oh, actually go back to the U.S.'.  

By the time I was now 10 years into it. I was 10 years [in]. I was settled [in] the U.S. I had a wife who was American. I was, 'Okay. Like, we're probably not going anywhere, anytime soon'. 

So around that time, this is almost 10 years ago, I started shifting my investments from Australia, into the U.S. partly from a taxation point of view. It's a bit tricky if you're investing in multiple places. And also, just because Silicon Valley became my backyard. 

Yes. 

So that was where we wanted to buy a family home. And we did, those were the areas that we were now most really with, you know, like the areas where my wife lived. and Silicon Valley was my neighborhood, right. So [I] never forget local knowledge of local real estate agents, local catchments.

And then with my business school friends, real estate investing is very big in the U.S. 

It's one of the highest paid careers in the U.S., not to [indiscernible] real estate agent. There's some very successful ones there. But, you know, to go into a real estate property investing, they'll go and build hotels, or build schools or things like that. 

Some of my best friends in the U.S. were in real estate investing. And we do a lot of that investing together in terms of syndicates, and things of that nature. 

That allowed me to invest in what I knew best, which was single-family homes. We would do that for ourselves, but also invest in some commercial properties, like fastfood shops, as well as for some syndicated things, or just hotels. 

That became a lot of my investing, starting 10 years ago. And that continues to this day, with the exception of we've purchased our primary family residence in Australia. So that happened once we moved back. But yeah, I'm kind of spread most in the U.S. and a bit in Australia now.

Tyrone Shum:   

With a noteworthy diverse portfolio, Foong certainly made sure he invested wisely abroad. After asking him if he has purchased any more property since coming back to Australia, he gives this answer…

No. Just our family home.

Favorably from a taxation point of view, [we want] to put as much as possible into that. 

And frankly, with house prices, get every dollar you can get you want to live in. Even the places that we all grew up in are now much more expensive, relative to when our parents purchased [them]. 

So my parents are still here; my sister is still the area. So we want to be on to these North Shore. And that's where we forge after purchase last year.

Tyrone Shum:   

Now looking back at his vast experiences as a more well-informed investor, Foong describes two of the most challenging incidents he has encountered down the property road— incidents which inevitably shaped the investing philosophy he has today. 

I'd say I've been pretty lucky. I've been really lucky. And we're really lucky that the first bets went really well. And then by the time some of the bad things happened, they're not devastating, because they're a percentage of the portfolio, not the whole [thing]. 

I think the two probably biggest challenges I took away where I mentioned that we purchased on an Adelaide, a place called Elizabeth. Those of you who follow Adelaide property—which is some proportion of your listeners will know that that is where the old General Motors-Holden factory was. 

And that was our big bet as the people made it. And in retrospect, that closed down; it was propped up by tax subsidies. And eventually, after a while, the government pulled out support and Holden moved away and moved the manufacturing overseas. So a classic government-propped-up town, and that town, obviousled struggled. It's not been the same since. 

And so, I think as a result, that's an error area where it makes sense to go based on people magnets, like universities, like employers. You just want to judge the volatility of that. 

For me, I had three properties there at the time. And, you know, I was fortunate that I didn't lose money, but I got capital growth and it all disappeared. And then [all] the related social problems and challenges there. It is tough for a community when an employer pulls out that way. 

So I think that, for me is, that's probably a reasonable bet to take as part of a portfolio. But if that's like you putting all your eggs in that basket, unless you're going to live there and it's your primary residence, it's a bit more dangerous. 

And then [on] the flipside, I invested in Darwin—that was one of the areas that we thought we'd try and dip our toe in. 

Darwin is also how people made it. It has a large military base there. And, obviously, approximately in [indiscernible] and places like that, that property went up from $180,000 to $260,000 overnight. It was a fortunate time to buy, and so 'Great, wow, we made 40%. Let's take our money and run and invest in something else'. 

And I think, for me, that was not a terrible decision, because we invested in other things, which generally went well. 

I can't remember how much went to Adelaide, but you know, we've [indiscernible], it was fine. 

But the reality is that if we've kept our money there, that would have doubled a few years after that. 

And so, for me, it formed a hypothesis, which I think Warren Buffett has caused: We are lazy investors. We don't buy much, and when we buy, we never sell. And that's his mindset. Because generally, when you sell, if you've bought good assets, you've come to regret it. 

I think, for him, for example, he recently sold all his airline stock, all his airline shares. Surely before, right at the bottom of the market, and then the airlines kind of hit the roof, you know. And so, in some ways, we all struggle with our own advice. 

But for me, that informed a lot of my strategy, which is try and save up to buy the best assets, the top quartile assets in the class you're going to buy—whether it's property or stocks. And if it is property, like, you know, [in] the premium areas, or the premium parts of the areas you're going to invest in. And ideally, hold on to it— particularly [in] places like Australia, where there are taxation advantages of doing so. 

Because generally, if you sell something good, it's going to get better. And then you've just incurred transaction costs and capital gains and things like that. 

So those two experiences have helped to shape my investing philosophy now.

Tyrone Shum:   

So far traversing the property road with more highs than lows, he is extremely aware of the potential curveballs life can throw at him. Hence, he faces these big questions of the future head-on.

When me and my wife, we married for a few years. When your first kid comes along, it kind of gives you some clarity thinking. And I'd been, even though I'd been a pretty serious investor, I've never actually built like a full-on, like, kind of full family balance sheet, or full family profit or loss statement with kind of 5-year [or] 10-year kind of extrapolations. 

You might think an MBA consultant might do that, [but] I've never done it, actually. 

And the prompting of having our first kid made us think about that. Like, 'Okay, like, where do we spend our money? Are we making the right moves?' 

And we're very fortunate, we both had made very good moves around property. But is that the right thing? 

And so we built this spreadsheet, and we did different scenarios. Okay, if we did this, and we make assumptions about, okay, what's the historical 100-year growth rate of stocks, [of] shares of property, of apartments, of houses? What's the current interest rate? 

You do some scenario analysis, you can imagine a giant Google spreadsheet on this. 

We reach kind of our aha moment of the following, which is this: Given that we're fortunate to have enough money to cover our expenses, and well, given that we're fortunate that we have a bunch of investments—a lot of properties, some in stocks, things like that—, we realised that the most logical thing for us to do was to maximise our property investment. 

Or put differently, invest every dollar we have; don't sit on cash. And No. 2 [is] maximise amount of leverage; go to a mortgage broker and say, 'Hey, we've got all these properties, how much can we borrow?'

That happened [in] about 2017 [or] 2018 for us. 

And as a result, we basically maximised what we could borrow, bought as much as we could—we ended buying and moving into a bigger family house—, we borrowed as much as we could for that property, and then just sat on it and said, 'Okay, we actually cannot borrow any more, we're not going to sell anything. So pretty much our next move is when we have to sell something for whatever reason or moving country or I get a job that makes a little bit more money and we can [indicernible] in that regard'.

And to me that has informed, I guess, our family strategy for now. 

Again, we're different. We're part of a young family. We're fortunate to have a couple of assets behind us. I think we're very different for our parents, we're very different [from people] in the '60s or be very different depending how much margin of safety you have to invest. 

But for us right now, our concept is, we maximise the return we have, we maximise how much we've bought out, we maximise our time in market, and we don't attempt to time the market. 

That's been the aha moment back in 2010 that kind of brought together our new family investing strategy with kids added to the mix. 

Kids are very expensive. Kids bring in like kind of new content of negative cash flow.

Our kids aren't even in school yet. I mean, I can only imagine what's going to happen there. But I think, what that [indiscernible] does is almost prioritise what other places of, in what order will we borrow or sell to kind of like, you know, make up for cash flow deficits. 

And obviously, there'll be surprise. There might be health scares. Eventually, those things will happen. But it helped us form a coherent philosophy. Okay, now that can change again, something will change again, or we'll learn something new and we'll change it again. But it's been very helpful for me and my wife to get to kind of negotiate talk format philosophy, and I think it helps make a stronger marriage as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

Foong certainly chooses his battles—especially in terms of the type of property investing strategies he implements.

The biggest other thing would be— I mentioned for this commercial syndicates. So for example, we would build a hotel, and again, like, you're one of like, 100 people investing or you're one of a syndicate of people, but that's a different kind of money, a different kind of return where, you know, we put some capital in and then kind of a management company would come and do that and pay dividends, then you can sell your share. So that's really the other kind of vehicle. 

You mentioned renovations before. It's important to know what you like or what you don't. 

We are terrified of renovating—all the things involving decisions and financing and council approvals. You know, not that it's not frustrating, even if you love it, but some people love that stuff. Some people are happy to live in their house. And that's a very capital and tax efficient way to do it. 

We did not decide that at all. We thought about renovating our first house in Silicon Valley. 'Oh, it's a four-bedroom house. We might have a few kids. I wouldn't try making a fifth bedroom'. We went through this renovation plans [and I] included, 'We are going to move'. And that's exactly right.

Coming up after the break, Foong lays down the critical difference that separates a man who is great at what he does, from a man who is simply good at it.

For me, I'll talk about the power of habit. There's one phrase that stuck with me: What's the difference in someone who's good and in someone who's great at something? 

The universal truth he wants everyone to realise about the brevity of life…

But in the end, like, it's easy to overestimate the locus of how much control we really have. 

He highlights how the decisions and actions of parents today can powerfully impact the lives of their children tomorrow.

And not just that, but the mindset they modeled for us. Like, 'Hey, try stuff, do things succeed, fail, don't just do things because we told you to, but do things because you love it'. 

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:   

With undeniable gratitude, Foong acknowledges the depth of his parents' impact in his life. He also shares the benefit of reading books and seeking out people who can positively influence him.

I think family has been the biggest experience, both through my parents, my wife's parents, their practices—that's been a huge influence. I do like to read books, particularly back 25 years ago with my granny. We'd read a bunch of books on property investment from I forget the name, and some like 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' by Robert Kiyosaki. 

And you know, Charlie Munger, who's Warren Buffett's right hand man. He had this concept—I mentioned the concept of renaissance man—, this kind of like, 'Hey, when you try and read music and sport and academics...', he has a very similar philosophy to investing, which is, 'Hey, don't just read about like, hey, I can do stock investing, try and bring different influences on your investing life'. 

So he looks at like, hey, how do engineers solve problems? How do chefs solve problems? He tries to read different influences to understand what psychological mistakes and what advantages people bring. And that's helped him form his—he's now a multi-billionaire in his own right—investing philosophy. 

I think that's very similar in terms of what has influenced me it's not just these books on investing or all these books on mindset, but a broad array of different books and influences and speakers and caps who helped forge who I am.

Yeah. 

I mentioned with business school, I'm very, very fortunate that I've 10 really good friends—they're all men in this case—where we were part of the, I mentioned church before, of the men's christian fellowship, actually, at Stanford, and a lot of us lived together. And we've been really [kep]t close [in] touch for the last, I guess, 15 years since I graduated. 

We even have a call every week. Every Thursday morning, we get together, we debate ideas or we share or we talk about different problems. And sometimes it's family, sometimes work, sometimes investing. These are amazing people [indiscernible]. They're all American, except for me. 

Some of them have been extraordinary successful investing some in property, some without. And so those people who are very influential to me. A lot of [us] we invest together, we debate ideas together, we share stories together. So that's been another important one for me as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

Without hesitation, Foong relays an advice that would separate the 'great' from the 'good'. 

I thought about this a lot, because I appreciate you ask your guests this question and generally [from] the people you want to get advice from. 

I'll think of something a little different, right, which isn't necessarily into property, because I've already thrown a bits of gratuitous advice throughout the course of this call. And hopefully, you folks have picked it up or or thought about or rejected or accepted it. 

For me, I'll talk about the power of habit. There's one phrase that stuck with me: What's the difference in someone who's good and in someone who's great at something? And the answer is it's habit. 

People who have been able to put something into automatic, where it just happens every day—it's Michael Phelps getting up at 4 a.m. to swim every day—, and after a while, there's no decision, it's just what is.

And I would ask each of your listeners, like, what are your habits and how [do] they serve you? 

There's a bunch of [really good] books on this topic, one's called 'Atomic Habits' I found particularly helpful. But for me, I guess as I've gotten older, as the demands of my life in work and family have become more loud and acute and, well, all-consuming. I realised that ultimately, my health, my relationships will come down to habits. 

And for me it's been about cultivating a small number of habits, which is first start things which are uncomfortable and then also come automatic. I already mentioned a few of them, [like] learning how to love running. And believe me, I'm an extremely slow runner. I tell you, I run marathons. And they go, 'Wow, you run marathons', and [I'm like], 'Yeah, like five hours', but I run them. Even though it's so slow—it's partly because I'm unfit, but it's also partly because just I listen to podcasts the whole time. 

I love running outside and listen to podcasts. And it creates this virtuous cycle of like, oh, it's something I love doing, I kept liking the endorphin hit. It's hard to do with kids. But as soon as I get the chance, I'll go and go from one-hour run. And I'll listen to a bunch of podcasts about politics or business or investing or real estate. And I love it. 

That is one habit. That's so heavy, right? 

Now the habit is like, I found a group of guys and we have a call every week, and whoever can make it out of the 10 makes it. Yesterday, it was three people. Last time was seven people. 

And to me, it's that habit of accountability, of doing life together. That's a real important habit. 

For me and my wife, it's like, what are the new habits given, we have like three young kids? And there is a short window between kind of like 8:30 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. at night. We've got two of the kids down, and the other one is asleep for now. And for us, we kind of go into our room in the house, and we bring snacks, and we chat about our day, and we watch Netflix. 

And to me, it's one of those habits that sustain you through...you know, it's a very tough time now. We've got three young kids on the five. 

But like, it's these habits, these things that happen automatically. It's not a decision, it doesn't take organisation, it just happens. 

That is the difference between goodness and greatness, whether you're an Olympic athlete or just folks like us who try to be really good to our families and do interesting work. So that'd be the one advice I'd give to your listeners.

Tyrone Shum:   

Honestly mulling over what he would have said to himself if he had met himself 10 years ago, Foong voices it clearly in black and white. 

Probably the same thing I'm saying to myself now. 'So Chill out. Chill out, like, it'll be okay. It will not be what you want or what you think you want. But it'll be okay. It might [have] been terrible. But it'll be okay'. 

And I think people like us, a lot of your listeners, Tyrone—like, because we want to have like an odus mindset, a growth mindset and owners mentality, because we want to be accountable, we don't want to be a victim and blame other people. We take a lot of responsibility for how things turn out. 

Will my kids be okay? Will my company be okay? How will this deal go? You know, that's what I admire. I want people like that to work for me, I want to be like that. I want to be that kind of employee. 

But in the end, like, it's easy to overestimate the locus of how much control we really have. You know, I think the Bible says like, 'Who are you? You're a gust of wind a mist that's here today and [gone tomorrow]'. 

We think the world revolves around us. But actually, our lives are this amazing adventure that we get to have—privileged to have. And in the end, we will make hopefully a bit of a difference to the world. But what have we left with at the end of our lives? And the legacy we leave behind is to enjoy our life. Why do we stress the whole time about having something that didn't really matter? 

And so for me, it is the story of my life, trying to come to terms and it's a real act of faith to accept that it'll be will be and it's okay. I think that's what I would have remind myself every day now [and] I would've told myself 10 years ago as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

With eyes looking straight at what the future may hold, Foong enthusiastically shares what he is most excited about in the next stages of his life.

I think for me, No. 1 is to be a great husband and a great father, and a great son [and] a great cousin as well. I think the older I get, the more I was like, 'Look, work is important. We care about our work. We're lucky to be in jobs that really matter. But you screw up your family then it'll be okay in the end, but it'll suck'. 

So I think that's [indiscernible] and constantly understanding what are the ways I jeopardise that. I take my work into my family; I don't quit good boundaries. 

I think with work, I'm so excited. Oh my goodness, I've barely spoken about what I do day to day. But I think one of the big appeals on why Australia was so alluring to me was [it was] a chance to come back and kind of be a big fish in a small pond. I mean, to say that in America, [in] Silicon Valley, there's tens of thousands of people like me, who are running companies doing great things, and that's great. And I love being a part of that, and I was recruited out of that. 

Here, I'm really grateful that I'm part of an ecosystem in Australia that's doing great stuff. You know, the kind of people I get to rub shoulders every day in the property industry, not just my colleagues at Domain like our Head of Marketing [and] Head of Product but [also] people who head up the biggest real estate agency brands in Australia, or you know, all these names, right? 

I get to speak with them, like, every week, every month. I get to hang out with them. I get to understand how I can serve them better. We get to solve problems together, like what [can we do] about Australia's supply crisis? Like, super cool, right? 

So I think for me the next few years about having a lot of impact in Australian property, which is such a big deal to Australians, how do we... you know, the Domain phrase is, 'Inspire confidence in life's property decisions'. And that's what we're trying to do, whether you're a seller or a buyer or a seeker, and I get to have a huge influence in that. It's amazing. 

Also, for me, it's a leadership training ground. It's a chance to step up as a leader, to learn a bunch of skills. I get to lead 500 people. I get to be a vision [for] them. I can make a huge difference to their lives, their families. If I screw it up, it's not going to be fun. And if I can make their lives and their careers great, that's a huge thing. And they will impact other people in both when they work for me and when they work for someone else. 

So I think I have a really cool spot of having a lot of influence, hav[ing] a lot of impact, but I kind of learn a lot as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

Last question for you is, how much of your success that you've achieved not only through the property, but also your career and stuff has been due to your skill, intelligence and how work? And how much of it do you think has been due to luck?

This is kind of the inevitible nature versus nurture debate. 

Firstly, [seriously], I'd be nothing without my parents and the choices they made. I'd be nothing. They sacrificed a lot so we could go to schools, like [the ones] we what we went to; that wasn't cheap. It's more expensive now, but it wasn't cheap. 

You know, my parents weren't in amazing professions. My dad was an auditor, the real estate agent; my mom was a nurse. It took significant sacrifice. I think, for them both, making those decisions to invest in school, in this case, a private school—other people go to public school and invest in other ways—, that's amazing, right? 

And not just that, but the mindset they modeled for us.

Like, 'Hey, try stuff, do things succeed, fail, don't just do things because we told you to but do things because you love it'. I'm very, very grateful for that. 

I consider luck to have a huge role. I mean, if I were to look at my life, I was extremely lucky to get into McKinsey. And that thing changed the trajectory of my whole life. It made me think about... Without that, I probably would have never left Gordon and people. I guess I'm still back here, you know? 

I guess it paved for me like, 'Well, the world is your oyster, anything is possible'. 

And here are people who [you can be] friends with, and you know, and that's what got me working studying overseas. 

I consider myself extremely lucky to have gotten to Google at that stage, at a company—where it was at its infancy, or not its infancy, it was 10,000 people, but it was much smaller than it is today, but a company—where they believed anything was possible. 

I came in as a marketeer. They said 'Hey, why don't you lead a team and operations?' I did that for a few years. [And then], 'Hey, what don't you do sales?' It's like, 'Oh, okay, I'll try sales. You'll build a team of sales of two people,  [then] have a team of 50 people'. 

How much of that was me? Maybe a little. But really, I was at the right place at the right time with the right company. 

And again, who knows what the path could've ended up? And even in how much was due to my own skill was only due to the luck that I had to learn those skills that people I had. So I consider myself very lucky, and I want to cultivate that attitude of gratitude, if I can.

Tyrone Shum:   

On the matter of church, Foong is without question not done serving in the mission field and fulfilling his calling.

To get to church, I mean, getting three kids or two kids out the door by the church services, it is like oh, my goodness, start at 7 a.m. and maybe it doesn't happen. 

I think for me, going back to my calling, I think part of it has been the evolution of me and [indiscernible]. 

Sometimes, church will be part of my life. Sometimes it isn't. That doesn't mean that I'm serving, in this case, God, or my view of God more or less, right? That's just a part of a season. And when I was younger, it was a big serving season. Now, like my family and my work actually come first. That's my mission field. 

I don't know where it goes one day. I still have a lot of aspirations to serve there. I like serving it both of kind of like helping play music and lead groups. I really love that. I'd rather do it like, 'Hey, how can I use my board-of-director-type skills to help make wise leadership position [or] strategy decisions?' I imagine that will be the case with me one day, I don't know when that is. 

They tell me what we have when you're a bit older along the kid journey than I am,  you know, Tyrone, they tell me at this point, they go like, 'Oh my goodness, kids are crazy'. It's like they want to have nothing to do with you. This [indiscernible] a chauffeur. And maybe they'll see you like once a week. 

Tyrone Shum:  

Yeah. 

And then like, what are you going to do with your time because you spent the whole life, the last 10 years, looking after them? That point will come. Having just had a third kid, that point has been reset by some years. But that'll come. 

And for me, I'm trying to take my advice to just chill out and enjoy the journey. Because one day, it'll come and it'll be a certain way, and maybe just what I think and that's okay. So that's what my mission field looks like. Who knows? 

Thank you to John Foong, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.