Michele: Welcome, everybody. Thank you so much for joining me today we have Tanya Gibson. She’s a VP in diversity, equity inclusion, or nonprofit. And I’m so happy to have her because we too often think of huge corporations or profits when it comes to di. But we have a nonprofit VP, who is here to share number one, what I really want to know, how did you end up in a nonprofit?

Tanya: So that’s such a great question chele, for me, nonprofit was actually not my first industry I’ve always worked for for profit. And so when I got the call from a recruiter, they masked the company that I work for today, they didn’t even tell me anything about the organization. So I know for some people that’s probably unique. They’re so used to doing a lot of research but for me I knew nothing about what to expect going into the nonprofit world. And so when I got the call, it was an SOS from the recruiter, they needed someone to start an HR department. And they didn’t know any experts in the field so that my organization decided to ask the experts and go out and find people who have been doing HR. And so when I finally got the job, I was a little nervous because I didn’t know what to expect. I was an HR department of one. And so there were always these questions as to well what is different about a nonprofit versus a for profit. And so that was my forte into the nonprofit world. It was really not me looking for it. It was the recruiter looking for someone who had expertise in HR, because there really isn’t a difference between for profit and nonprofit when it comes to the HR practices. People are people. And that was what was most important for my organization.

Michele: I love it. I’m wondering why that the recruiter masted, but either way, I’m glad they did. So you could be in a nonprofit still doing the same break work. What advice would you give to someone who wants to enter into the DIY space as a professional?

Tanya: I would say give yourself grace, you are not going to know all the answers, no matter any person in this field, who says they are the expert. Things change all the time. And so you have to be willing to understand that these are moving pieces. Our world is so complex. We use term a lot when we’re talking about RTI work of intersectionality. And that’s so important is to understand that there’s not one component of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion that’s more important than the other. They all have a part to play. And so that that would be my advice to anyone getting into Diversity, Equity and Inclusion work. Know that you have to give yourself grace, you’re not going to know everything and to also understand That it’s okay. If you don’t know everything you can say that. And that’s a part of the journey in dei is you don’t know it all. And so you want to bring others along on that journey with you.

Michele: Excellent, excellent. Um, I absolutely agree with that. Okay, so you’re in the eye, you’re in HR, and you’re looking at people of color. And you, will you said intersectionality. And let’s back up just for a little bit for some people who may not know what intersectionality is. It talked about that briefly. And then we’ll we’ll dive in deeper into what you do for people of color as part of in the nonprofit space.

Tanya: Yeah. And so that term is a coined term in this space. And so what intersectionality really means is looking at all the different elements that make up diversity, what most people would know this diversity, right. So that’s going to be you know, African Americans, Asians, women, the military are able bodied versus our, our disabled community, our tribal communities and indigenous communities. So intersectionality just means I’m, I am one piece or part of a whole, right? So my physical characteristics makeup a part of my intersectionality I am a cisgender, meaning a born woman, female. That’s my attributable sex, but I’m also African American and identify that way. There’s also other parts that make up my intersectionality of who I am. So I’m growing up in a first world country. And so there’s privilege that comes along with being in a first world country versus someone who may have grown up in what we consider a third world country or I live in a different socio economic class or status than someone else. And so internet intersectionality just means all the parts of a person that makes up all of the groups and demographics that We identify.

Michele: Right? Thank you so much. I love your definition and an explanation. When it comes to nonprofits, we see them as a serving type entity or organization. But how do nonprofits or how should nonprofits build belonging in their organizations to not only the people who work there, but also the people they serve?

Tanya: And we struggle with this every day. Because as you said, we’re a mission driven organization, which means we are to serve the community. So for us, what we look at in the term of belonging is that that phrase of my title, diversity, equity and inclusion, we look at the belonging as that next step in evolution of the equity work that we do so trying to make everyone equal. It’s not always it’s it’s easier said than done. And so we we add that next layer of equity work into the conversation. So how do we make sure that all of the work that we’re doing reaches everyone and is welcoming? And we make sure that we don’t say that we come into a community, we are already in the community, we are the community. And so how do we make sure that not only the staff that we want to recruit and come into our offices or agencies, feel that they are welcome. And so that’s that concept that we talked about earlier about intersectionality. Identifying, and recognizing and empowering all the parts of a person that makes them who they are. And that same concept can then be looked at when we are working in the communities that we’re in. And that’s so important for us because belonging really does mean you know, join someone that looks like me, that understands where I’ve come from in the background that that I am in my lived experiences. And even if maybe that person doesn’t, hasn’t grown up the same way that I have grown up or has the same lived experiences, so they understand who I am and what what about my world and my life. Life makes me who I am. And that’s so important when we’re talking about that concept of belonging. And so that’s why it was important for my organization to make sure that not only did we acknowledge diversity and inclusion, which a lot of organizations have someone in some form or fashion that has that title now, but we also want to make sure that the equity was not forgotten, because it’s great to say diversity, that’s wonderful that we want to be inclusive, but how is that actually impacted when it comes to your policies and your procedures for your staff, your workforce, and for the communities that we work in?

Michele: Now as we look in the non profit sector, right now, I’m doing COVID-19 when it comes to serving people color, how has that been because we’re, we’re working like the nonprofit employees may be working remotely. So how do you serve as a provider? Services now, to those people color communities that are looking for you for your support.

Tanya: Well, for us, I think it was definitely something that we were already doing. We weren’t we already are in those communities. And so it was just making a paradigm shift. Because we were so used to having the in person connectedness, that now our organization just wanted to make sure that we were reaching everyone where they were at. That’s very important for us so virtually as we’re doing today, so we had to do a paradigm shift for some agencies, especially in our rural communities, where we know that there are some disparities, even access to internet, and that connectedness can sometimes be a little bit more challenging. So it was finding ways to incorporate technology where, where it was accessible. And if technology wasn’t accessible, we do have other services that we provide as an organization. So the work never stops for us. And so if we could not come connect with them virtually, obviously, we’re probably To sing social distancing guidelines, but there were other ways that we were serving the community. So it would be we would go to the schools, we know our, what we call our littles, our mentees would go to and pick up food. If schools were passing that out, we would contact people by telephone, we had the ability to just to check in with them, and stay socially connected in that way. And also to talk with our legislators where we had the access and the ability to communicate with them to explain to them that in this time, we already knew as a nonprofit, that the communities that were in were already vulnerable communities and already had disparities. And so it was just emphasizing that and re engaging our legislators in all of the communities that we serve, that people of color, were already vulnerable. And COVID-19 has, in many cases, as I’m sure many people have already seen in the news in the media, it’s just exacerbated a lot of those disparities. And so for all of our workers, it was just trying to make sure that whatever x Service services that our kids and their families needed that we were there for them, if it was picking up the phone, bringing a board game to their home, helping them and providing them with any kinds of subsidies they may need to require to help keep the bills being paid. So we were just doing all of the things we already were doing, but just doing it more creative ways to make sure we’re keeping everyone safe.

Michele: Yes, I love the ability to be able to meet virtually when when, of course you can and I’m in rural South Carolina so I absolutely understand, um, the lack of high speed internet or access to internet in it in it, if you will. There’s a lot of people that the whole, the entire US does not have high speed internet, and like most of the US doesn’t have it. So definitely having different modes to reach out to people from telephone to birds. It’s always good during especially during COVID-19. If not after, what? What are you seeing right now in how organizations specifically nonprofits are engaging people color in the nonprofit workforce?

Tanya: Well, you know, I can only speak on behalf of my organization. I know what we’re doing. But you know, I think that any nonprofit that wants to remain relevant is trying to do so to make sure that they’re connecting with their funders or their donors or advocacy groups. And a lot of us are coming together. Many of us in the youth development, nonprofit space, have recently tried to come together to talk more about, you know, how is dei being impacted during these times? And so I would say that for us what was most important was building community within our community within our industry and finding ways to partner together although we will We’re already doing that. But it was even more important for us at this point in time, not to forget the fact that, you know, COVID-19 is a term that for all of our kids in the youth development space, they don’t know what that means for the communities that we serve, you know, they in many cases are still out, they may be service workers or, quote unquote, the essential workers of our communities. And so we want to make sure that we were building the right kinds of tools and resources to educate all of the communities that we serve, and to talk about what’s happening with those communities. And make sure that we’re getting the information directly from the source versus trying to, you know, look at what the media may be talking about, because we have that firsthand interaction. Many of these communities are relying on us, they rely on that interaction. And as a part of our model, we are a mentoring organization that has to have contact with people. And so we’re able to talk and find out you know, what are what are the challenges One of the obstacles so that we can make sure that we’re on the frontlines with them providing them with the services. They say they need 

Michele: have your mentors been able to engage with their mentees during our,  I don’t want to say shut down but work from home or stay at home?

Tanya: Yes, that was one element that was a collaboration between our fund development department at my organization, as well as we have a program department and that’s the the department that works specifically with all of our agencies. And so they collaborated together and we do have a taskforce, but those two specific departments said that they wanted to make sure that we had activities, we have resources that we could then give to our agencies who would then provide those services to our mentors, which we call our bigs and provide them to the littles, which are mentees. And so we’ve done that through a number of ways, whether it be to have Google Hangouts or You know, use zoom, which is really popular amongst the for profit companies as well and organizations trying to use it to connect with staff. But we then provided them with other kinds of team building activities, things that in my field of HR, we try and do with their workforce. So whether it be board games, as I mentioned earlier, or you know, online virtual games, or FaceTime interactions where they could, you know, do makeup tutorials, or you know, want to play a checkers game with the board game, and then they move their pieces, or maybe start a book club or share recipes and cook something together. So we tried to find ways for there still to be that connectedness, even though they may not be in the same physical space.

Michele: I love those solutions. So you’re seeing everybody say, Oh, we should make our kids put everything download. No, no, pick that up. You need to engage. Exactly. So so we’re finding the positive in you leveraging technology to stay Necdet because before we were saying, we were being disconnected via technology, in in bridging the two together is is really great to see, at least from this engineers perspective.

Tanya: And that’s what my organization is all about. It’s about providing a caring individual and adult in the life of a child and doing that through typically, activities were there together. And so trying to be creative, to find solutions when technology was available to still feel like you’re connected, even if the physical distancing is there. So that’s why, you know, I don’t really like that term, physical distancing, or even social distancing. Because, you know, this allows you to be connected in any way possible. So it was really just finding a new way to share with one another share those experiences.

Michele: I absolutely agree. I love it. I love it. Okay, what do you see? nonprofit, your nonprofit with littles and bigs five years from now, when it comes to creating places of the longing for people of color.

Tanya: You know, I would hope five years from now that we’re We are the leader in that space of talking about why it’s so important to have a mentor in a child’s life and to allow those mentors to be from any community and not look at it so much from a DI perspective, but just look at it from a perspective of a caring adult being with a child and providing them with great lived experiences. I think even as adults, we can benefit from mentors, people who show us the way. And so I would hope that five years from now, we’re having a conversation more about why nonprofits are so important in our country and in our communities. Because I think a lot of those experiences are more informal in communities. And so we’re just formalizing a process that has been going on for hundreds of years, and so I would hope that Diversity and Inclusion is less of the conversation and that equity is the main conversation that we’re all looking at it as just we are all one. Because the work that we do today is looking at it from all of the boxes, right? All of the boxes we know of right? So we have an LGBTQ program. We have programs with our African American, historically, African American fraternities and sororities, we look at our tribal communities, and so we still box them in. Yeah, so I would hope that in in five years, we’re just looking at as, okay, let’s just go out and make sure that we’re looking at a community and how they need to be served. So less on the DNI and more on the equity side.

Michele: Yes, I would love to see that growth in five years or less. So we’ll see what happens post obit 19 when it comes to
people of color in the nonprofit sector, What advice would you give to a listener when they may not have as much support as you do in your organization, or they are a few steps behind where you are in your in providing that support.

Tanya: I would say a couple of things trust the process, because it’s still a process, even in my organization. Even though I represent diversity, equity inclusion, a lot of work has to be done on a daily basis to make sure that it stays top of mind because there are so many competing priorities we write funding is our great chief priority to stay in business. Child Protection is our number one priority and so that sometimes can compete with what we want to make sure we’re doing. And so I would say you know, to brand yourself as someone who understands a certain dimension of diversity, equity and Don’t try and focus on all of that, because that can be very overwhelming. And if you’re already in organization and you want to own this work, speak up and say something to you know, your key stakeholders, and more so than not, it’s definitely a moral obligation. But for many of your key stakeholders and organizations that maybe a few steps behind in di, you’re going to have to find a way to translate that to dollars, because that really for our key stakeholders, is where they understand the need for DNI programs in an organization and have the data to support it as well. So if you’re able to pull the data around, not only the ROI, the money piece, but also the data around how that’s affecting the work that’s going on in your organization. I think that will build a strong case of support for their formalized DNI programs.

Michele: Absolutely agree I was telling someone on a separate panel, employers who embrace dei do it during COVID-19 will outpace those who don’t, meaning those who don’t see it as a cost center, those who do see it as a value center. And in sometimes you have to have metrics, they have to see what that value is in metrics. And that’s fine, but too often is looked at as a cost center and you want to cut costs. So

Tanya: and that goes back to what you said earlier about how to build belonging. If you don’t have people, all kinds of people we live in, it’s not a homogenous society, everyone has different perspectives. And the same can be said for gi work. You want to have different kinds of people with different perspectives and opinions. And that’s not just one kind of person you need a whole subset and that’s what D is trying to do. Always is to mix it up a little bit.

Michele: I love it will tell you Thank you so much for joining us today. How can people connect with you?

Tanya: So if anyone wants to connect with me, they can connect with me through my LinkedIn page. It’s at Tanya Gibson PHR and that’s Tanya with an A. And so for me, I want to make sure that everyone knows my pronouns are she, her and hers. And that’s another really great tip I didn’t tell you about Michelle is if you’re getting into this tea, I work to learn more about the different pronouns because that is a part of intersectionality specifically for LGBTQ plus community that identifies that way. So that always signifies to all of our GDI experts or subject matter experts that you understand the different elements of di.

Michele: Thank you so much for joining me. So all of you in the non profits, profit sector, or even if you’re in the for profit sector, there are some great information here on how to create a culture of belonging for your people of color. I will be back with another segment so stay tuned as we all work together to get us through covid 19.