Keywords: Stan Smiley, Safety FM, Jay Allen, Safety Consultant, Sheldon Primus,  Hydrogen Sulfide, H2S, Train the Trainer, OSHA, Oil and Gas, Guyana, Gas Extraction, PEC, Basic Plus, Hazwoper, hazcom, GHS, ISO 45001,  Susan Harwood Grants, US Government, Department of Labor, Region, Compliance, EHS, Safety and Health, Fire Fighting, County Government, Local Government, Regulation, ANSI Z 390.1

[00:00:08] spk_0: this episode is powered by safety FM.

[00:00:15] spk_1: Welcome to the safety consultant podcast. I'm your host shoulder. Primus. Happy 2023. Believe that is 2023 already. So glad that you're with me. It's been a real good year. Yes, only four days in. Right? So as you can tell, since I said that is the morning of January 4, 2023 I want to welcome you to the show if it's the first time you're listening to us. Thank you. And by us, I mean me it's gonna be worth your while. It's gonna help you out. I'm gonna help you with the business of being a safety consultant, teach you some ocean compliance stuff. You can interview some great guests like I do have today as well. That's the stuff that I do. It's what I do around here, man, that's so funny. Alright, so I've got a real real real real special treat for you guys. But before that I just want to remind you to like and subscribe this podcast wherever you're listening to. Well to me, just whatever you have to do to make sure that you get all the notifications related to when I am doing a show or anything similar to that. Sometimes they pop up of a special episode on you guys every now and then and then. Also it help will also bring some people to the show which will be awesome. You know that algorithm thing that we've all been talking about, everybody in this industry, you know, it's like uh it's like you say, oh it's the algorithm and in fact everybody's mind were like algorithm. So that's why everyone likes to, you know, make sure you like and subscribe and also be part of the podcast as best as you can through talking and whatever. Uh you're listening to. They have a way to either respond to me by either emailing me. And the way to get to that would be safety consultant podcast dot com. And then you're gonna look at the very top icons and you're gonna see a microphone icon and you hit that one and that's a way that you could actually talk to me. Uh The other way is uh through your actual um whatever you're listening to me on, go ahead and leave a review over there and that's my way of your way of just let me know that you're there and all the fun stuff you know, and if you have not shared the show with a friend, go ahead and do that. So they could hear the rantings of a mile of a Mad Man's mind. Alright well again, thank you for listening. Welcome to 2023. This episode that we have is a special one interviewing Stan Smiley and uh if you have not heard the name before, you may not be in the oil and gas industry but he is very very renowned in the field. He's uh ex Air force worked for a lot of the oil and gas industries throughout the gulf coast area. In texas area. He is certified N. C. C. R. E. R. Field safety Tech Certified Safety Tech. Any of your P. E. C. Safety land training and core trainer J. S. A trainer H. Two S. And that's a whole nother situation which we're going to talk about like we're going to spend a whole bunch of time on. He's talking about his H. Two S side but he's also certified with uh G. H. S. Training and pipeline trainer. Incident commanding trained has whopper 8 40. So you get a kind of a feel for the vast amount of experience that we're about to hear in this interview. Uh And in particular we talk about hydrogen sulfides because you may not know but stan smiley is only one of 41 currently Certified master hydrogen sulfide master instructors and there's only 100 and 23 worldwide. So we talked about his sulfide experience and and about that hazard itself. I've been aware of the hazard for many long time because of my experience in water and wastewater and collection systems and everything else. As some of you that are listening to the show. Um You've heard my story a few times I would imagine. Right so that's a concentration in really low levels oil and gas extraction. They're gonna have sulfide levels that are you know very very much greater than what we're used to and we talk about that in this interview and stand being a master trainer. We talk about training in the interview, we talked a little bit about um just how are you as a trainer relating to your audience and some of the things that you know, the philosophy behind being a great trainer. We talk about that and we actually just really dig into the sulfides and the hazard itself as you know, I am just truly, truly um into science if you would, and the signs of hydrogen sulfide exposure and what it does to the body and everything else is um intriguing to me and it makes, you know, just even more dangerous now than I had thought before in the concentrations I've been used to. So in this interview I had to break it up into two separate interviews. I was actually only going to do it in one, but it was like so many gems and I was like, I did not really want you guys to to miss any of these gems that's coming from this man that has been so generous with his time. So I am going to break it up into two episodes, you're going to get the first one this week and then next week you're gonna get part two. And at the culmination of the episodes, you're going to hear that stan and I are going to do an event together. So I want you guys to know ahead of time that we are going to do an event if you want to see about it, I'm only hosting the event but I'm actually going to be a student of the event as well. So through uh the member of telling you guys about my my brother and I's company Primus Global Media, we're hosting events now and if you're interested in having an event hosted for you then let me know, send me an email. We're truly two brothers just getting new into this, so uh we're still new, so you know, honestly uh that's just for the marketing side. Uh we don't have everything out like we want to however for the event side, uh we're not new on the event side I've been doing when you guys have been with me the whole journey, watching me host my own event after event and a safety consultant, 101 and other events like that. And together We decided that let's do it together as brothers in 2023, so I'm just letting you guys in on on it early. So um I'm also letting you know that with the uh the thing that I'm gonna be doing with stan which is actually, you know, me hosting, but I'm also going to be a student of H two S. I am instructor development course, so for hydrogen sulfide and instructor development course, so this would be the train the trainer course if you will, so when you get done and you get your certificate here, you now will be a trainer for hydrogen sulfide. So as me as a consultant, I'll use that with my business and with training but and people who are actually in the field especially since this is gonna be a full online event. So therefore we're opening up international and you'll be able to take this class as well and you will be a trainer trainer where you are now that is the idea for more information, go to Primus dot training. That's Primus my last name, P R I M us dot training and if you have a problem with the dot training extension because some people may have some sort of block or whatever. You can also go to Primus webinar dot com. So Primus webinar dot com. And again, my last name is Primus P R I M U S. So it's going to be Primus dot training or Primus Webinar dot com. And both ways, depending on if you get your extension or not, you can get on the the interest list and the event we're going to host in february and it's going to be the 15th, 16th and 17th in february. It's going to be a 2.5 day to three day event. So I just want to let you guys know that because I am not going to come back on at the end of this interview. It's just so good. I want you guys to get the full, you know appeal of stan smiley and his genius and I'm so appreciative that he came into my life. He has been following my career for about a year or so on a linked. Excuse me on a facebook group that I host with J Allen of safety FM If you go to facebook dot com forward slash groups and that's groups with an S for its slash safety consultant And there you could go ahead and become part of the group. You just have to answer three basic questions which we use for making sure it's people out there in that box and there's currently about 3000 members, international members in the group. So uh don't matter, no matter where you are, it's okay. You can join this group if you have access to Facebook and that's a boy or me and stan met and I've been in communication last year or so and truly I am just honored by him wanting me to work with him on this project and then also to have him be interviewed by me. So you guys will be just floored by this man's experience and his just graciousness. Alright, so I will see you next week when we do part two, Go get them.

[00:11:34] spk_2: Good morning. I'd like to tell you how much I appreciate you reaching out. My name is stan smiley. I have five star safety consultant. I've been in the safety world for a very long time.

[00:11:49] spk_1: You have been really like I've been looking at the uh your your profile and on linkedin and everything you've been in quite a long time is an understatement.

[00:12:07] spk_2: Yes I have and I branched out in an awful lot of directions in my years. Uh I started in the refining world in 1972. I was with him for 22 years. Uh I was on the UG Emergency alert team or response team for about 21 of those years. Last 10 years I was there, I was in charge of response on shift actually going out and setting up the fire truck, evaluating the situation, taking care of any medical and those type of responses. Uh in some very interesting situations were pretty good fires and one explosion and I've always managed to make it out unscathed. Uh And I try to do that when I do my training. Um a lot of people just don't understand the fighter fighter flight and uh they responding correctly. Um um

[00:13:19] spk_1: Or your career with Ireland. Yes you you've been doing uh probably extraction, is it distribution as well.

[00:13:29] spk_2: I've I haven't had a lot and you're talking about the grilling world.

[00:13:34] spk_1: Yes sir.

[00:13:37] spk_2: Okay. Yeah I got out in the drilling world I guess about 2010. Um I've worked as safety manager for companies. I've I've actually sat on the grilling rooms at one time I was over seven drilling rigs, the safety on it and normally that's on a A 1414 schedule where you rotate. Um It was during the Eagle for days. We uh it was a real busy, pretty stressful time. A lot of interaction with the community. Uh Most of the time when you're in the drilling world you're out in some rather remote locations and down in south texas, it's not uncommon to have a whole lot of ground in between. I had rooms that were 80, 90 miles away and I'd have to respond to all of that and actually be on the floor when they were doing the production casing. And uh in those days the early days A normal will would be 33 days. Uh from the time that they hit the ground with a bit until they put the tree up and about $3-$5 budget with directional drilling and three D. Seismograph. They ended up bringing that down to about 12 to 15 days million dollar book, which meant that the one safety guy stretched out for 90 miles was not sleeping much uh very busy time in those days. Uh The big companies wanted to know how real 10 year projection was for that shale. They hired an independent consultant, I believe she was from a Norwegian country and she came in and she did her evaluation and her report was, Yes, the shell can withstand the 10 years of production. The one thing that is really big is that the oil field companies and those the service companies are going to have to be good stewards, they're gonna have to take care of the small towns that they impact because it makes a major impact. And I try to teach people when I train, uh, what you do, what you say as a real strong possibility of an impact that ripples out a long way. One particular town that we were close to, most people could run the stop sign in the middle of town, in the middle of town with one little grocery store and a gas station of a mailbox and two restaurants. And they could run that stop sign and not have to worry about getting hit. And when the shell hit big, you could sit at that stop sign for 10 minutes and then they end up having to put a Ford. I mean a traffic signal. So all of a sudden those ranchers that we're leaving the house to go get a loaf of bread, he could be back in 20 minutes, maybe there two hours and not everybody is getting royalties of a production. And so yeah, your impact is pretty strong on the communities. I try to do training, especially in those types of communities on hydrogen sulfide and I try to teach the responders, people that might get a a call to respond to a rig because the Reagan got hurt. Uh, they don't know what to be worried about, They don't know the questions asked. Uh, they go running in, you know, a fireman goes running in with a hose or a fire extinguisher and E. M. S was running in with a little crash bag. Maybe they need to know which way to go in there. And so I tried to, I taught, uh, taught several counties and uh, then there was a shop safety class at the high school in Springs, I thought 69 of those kids and certified them. So it's just trying to do things that complements the company, compliments of people who complement us in the safety world, mm

[00:18:41] spk_1: hmm what you said, um, your impact to the community automatically. I was thinking like, like the fracking order and how, when that goes into the environment it's going to affect the local community. But I didn't even think about the traffic and I would imagine food services and medical care and everything else is all that is impacting that community.

[00:19:03] spk_2: That's correct. I did a, I did a training session for the first responders of Mcmullen County. I've done it twice now, but the people were late showing up and I asked, they, you know, they volunteered, we, we had an H two S event and of course since I trained that and I have a real passion for it, I asked for information and it was out on the road, it was a county road, but it was a dirt road and you could be out there where that ball was originated from and not see a production site Nazi, a drilling rig and not see a tank battle. You can't see anything to set oil on it. And the man was out there doing dust control with vacuum trucks, spreading water on the road for dust control ended up going down. The responders got, got the call. And so my first question to them was, what kind of information did you get when you receive the alert? Uh, usually oftentimes they're not given the sufficient information. It doesn't matter expire. It doesn't matter if it's medical, uh, law enforcement, they don't get, they don't get the proper information. And I know you be business like myself. Normally when we start looking for root causes of a problem, it goes to a lack of information or poor information. And you try to teach these people, they went out there, they responded to the man, uh, two of the responders because he, they were checking to see if he was breathing. They were trying to find out they need to do CPr, so they get their head down close to him and when they did, they got ill and it was from a in the H two S four over, we teach that any temperatures over 90 degrees and wind over 10 miles an hour are favorable for H two S dispersion. So you shouldn't have to worry about that. I know from the locations that it probably took them 10 or 15 minutes to respond because it's all volunteer and then probably 15-20 minutes to get where they had to go. So you're looking at over 30 minutes and that doesn't make sense until you still start going in there and investigating and start kind of dissecting that they had to call lifelike point. If that helicopter had voters turning when he got to call 45 minutes he got out there were afraid to load him in the helicopter because they were afraid he would go down because of his exposure. And what we finally realized is the man was using the water, putting it on the roads and probably either broke the law and used to produce water which is infamous for having aids to us uh and in it or he didn't want the inside of that vacuum truck and when he put fresh water in there and he was driving out there he's sitting there sloshing back and forth and scrubbing whatever age to us is clinging to the walls and now he's putting it to us down on the on the on the road and H two S has broken free by agitation and heat. It was over 95 degrees out there and the agitation was the product hitting the ground. And so it was, it was puzzling for a little while but interesting. I love I love challenges and uh Today in the H two trainer world,

[00:23:09] spk_1: wow now. So in this case it looks like me, you know I know H. Two S. Because of my background in wastewater treatment. But that's so much our concentration is so far less than what you see in oil and gas. That I don't really get this situation much whenever I'm dealing with my wastewater clients. But it sounds to me that the H. Two S. Is getting dissolved in the water or at least to some degree but then it breaks up again either by agitation. So that's telling me that it's uh it's some sort of um like maybe a oxygen thing that it's releasing. So so something is going to bind to the oxygen releasing the H. Two S. So from H. 202 H. Two S. I'm imagining that you're creating maybe extra water or something and more sulfide when it's being released under pressure.

[00:24:07] spk_2: H H. Two S. Is liquid soluble, it attaches to water, it attaches to crude, it attaches to anything that is moist. Teach when we're worried about people being exposed to H to us because H. Two S. Is looking for moisture into the person, it gets into your sinus cavities up your nose down your throat. Actually on the uh lubricating factors of your eyes. Anything that has to do with H. Two S. When you have a you have an exposure if you look at it even in fairly mild concentrations the victim initially it is a fairly strong exposure. Uh they all complain about burning their eyes are burning their noses, burning their throat is burning because when the H two S hits that liquid, it starts diluting and it forms a mild acid and maybe it's in in their lungs. It does a lot of things in the water treatment that you're talking about. You know, they have agitators in there and when you go in there it's constantly spraying agitating that and it's trying to break a lot of stuff free. They have bugs, like it's actually microorganisms that go in there and eat the salas and and a lot of that stuff. Uh but you don't know normally how efficient it's doing as far as it's to us, there are two cases that I know of in particular, one of them was out there in florida where you're from. Another one was up in the panhandle of texas and I think there was one in el paso where the people went out there to do work on probably pumps. And normally when you look at water treatment, the ones that I have seen have been down on low levels may be down a hill or or what have you and kind of remote because of the smell. And the two people working in in the panhandle of texas, they were told that it was a gas environment. So they took their SCB a self contained breathing apparatus uh with him, they had monitors, they had a four gas meter, but all of that stuff was up on the hill. They were downhill working and they didn't show up to clock out, They went looking for them and they were dead. Uh There's a lot of things wrong with that. And most of the time when you start getting into the H two S world, you find that your core or no equipment as far as PPE very poor training, if any. And It's it's really hard to convince an adult, especially an adult male and when you get into the oil-fuel world, those are macho times 10 that you need to be scared of stuff. You can't see, you need to be scared. And how do you care of yourself? You take care of yourself through proper training. And I tell them that your strongest PPE item is your brain, use your brain to evaluate your training, evaluate the situation and use it in a fashion that you want to go home that day. It's a tough deal. I tell people, you know how many of y'all have kids and they always have their hands. I said, how many of you have your little kids because they run out of the driveway to in the road and they almost off their hands and said, all right now tell me any of you, have you seen a car with a child going down the driveway? No, I said the one you tell him because it's the right thing to do because it can. Um My daddy told me, I used to like to push the bubble when I was young. And you're lucky you're alive. And we're all we're all lucky we're alive. Uh I use I use driving, you know, we're 2022 If you go back um 100 years and they were driving vehicles around, they didn't have the road right? And all of the things that uh the traffic signals and warnings. And I told them, I said you know that six inch line going down that road is T. P. And you're praying that the people that are coming directly at you five ft across that line in a £4,000 vehicle, understand that Teepee. And I've been training a long time and you have to get training basic, you have to do it in a fashion that people want to hear the information you have. And then you give them methods to digest it and evaluate it so they can see how much it's worth to them. Uh And it can be challenging. There's uh there's an art to train them and there's an awful lot of that go out there and they want to rush right through it. H two S is one of them. You'll see people still doing a 15 or 20 minute training on hydrogen sulfide. The N. C. Program that will be used by all the ocean contacts. I've talked to will be what they use for evaluation for enforcement and their investigations and that program while it's voluntary says that you're going to train people up to certificate level. They say that certificate level should be around 3-4 hours. And it also in 2017 when they revised the program they gave the trainer the opportunity to mold the training to the jobs that the people would be performed. And so I can go into a facility and probably train those people for an hour and a half for two hours. When we get done with this I'll go to a pipeline company. I know where they're gonna be working. I know what the concentrations of H two S are in that county. I know their their hazards and and how to address it. But there's an awful lot of people out there that either knowingly or through ignorance do the wrong thing when they're training. Uh Usually like

[00:31:42] spk_1: a system. I'm sorry. I was just thinking about that. You mentioned that with people sometimes. I believe they're they're so stuck on their system or they're trying to get uh like they may not have even created the course. They're they're just teaching some something else. Someone else's material when they don't know the understanding of the material. They're just looking for another output. Another way to make money or something. But the training isn't quality. That's that's my my my view but I'm not too sure if you see it the same way.

[00:32:16] spk_2: No, no, I I agree with you wholeheartedly. I uh Susan Harwood must have been a good woman and had a whole lot of money. There's an awful lot of grant training that's done. And the grants are through the Susan Harwood Trust. I went to one I guess it's been about four years ago. It was a Hazmat train. The trainer that's a pretty in depth training. It was two days The trainers, one from California, one from New Jersey had never worked together. I had not used the training material and I left there with a book that I had no clue what to do with. You won't find my resume that I'm a trainer, trainer and has not. And it's at the close of it. You know, y'all remember when you fill out the evaluation that if you don't give us a real good marks that you won't get any more free training and be honest with you. That's fraud. It's a sham uh said through another woman and it dealt through, dealt with uh has come and how the covid and affected it and how to handle it. And there was nothing different than what they were training that what we were supposed to be training starting in 2013. Well,

[00:33:56] spk_1: jesus truly advanced then there should have been some new training.

[00:34:02] spk_2: Well sure there's people that can stand up there and represent it possibly because they don't know any better. uh when I started in 1972, oh, she was two years into its infancy and there was a presence uh, safety was wear your glasses, were your hard hat. They were buddy holly glasses that didn't fit people wouldn't use. And it just, it was a very peculiar world. I I saw two instances personally where they brought people out, excuse me, mind spaces because the person had, you had opened the wrong valve to purge the vessel and the ventilating it while people were inside there. And what they ended up doing was opening the nitrogen. So they ended up killing the people inside. So that personally,

[00:35:16] spk_1: wow, you have seen some stuff I had, yeah, I had another question that came up and um, and I know with hydrogen sulfide and your passion, a lot of people don't understand that sulfides even in 100 parts per million. Yes, you could survive, but it's still iffy. But then when you get beyond that, then it is almost a certain death. So they don't even the companies know the responsibility. But sometimes when the workers are on their own, they may forget about that.

[00:35:53] spk_2: Uh,

[00:35:55] spk_1: it's really amazing what hydrogen sulfide could do to you when you, when you amass those concentrations,

[00:36:03] spk_2: hydrogen sulfide at 0.13, it's a nose at 100 parts per million. It will paralyze the olfactory nerve and kill the sense of smell. They teach people if you smell Roddenberry's now I tell people you know I guess my mama shopped at a different grocery store. I never smell rotten eggs but I know what sulfur smells like and smells like sulfur but also when you start getting into that anything that has to do with exposure, the concentrations that people are hit with and then human physiology and what people don't understand your physiology your bodily makeup can change three times during the day. You may wake up incredibly strong as far as your physiology your your ability to adapt at concentrations of exposure. And then yet we can when you go and you eat your lunch you may build back up so what what can affect me at 100 parts per million affect you at 60. They have uh mask that have filters on them cartridges that are good for each to us Working environments up to 90 parts per million. But who's to say first of all that your physiology can handle 80 parts without being affected. And who's to say that the wind that may be bringing that age to us uh is bringing something that's 1000 parts which brings about what's called D. R. T. Dead right there. The D. R. T. The individual can be 600 parts instead of 1000. And so it's uh it's a really crazy fun. Uh Is I use a lot of demonstrations. I probably talked to over 2500 people in 2014, uh doing presentations, they can be found to be google me or five star on on the internet and in doing so, you know, people are there kind of bashful when they get into a group of people, it's like trainers, not on a trainer, Most people are a little self conscious, a little nervous about getting up there and doing what they need to do and we go through that when I do my instructor development, but they'll end up coming up to me after the presentation and give me a, Your first hand, a very close second hand story about an H- two s event, most of the time fatalities. I first started training this about 12 years ago, I think it was frank Perry was my mentor and if people google and he was mr H two S, he just, he's an incredible man. Um and then doing so I started trying to find a sus fatalities, People in our business, learn that the people that were training people that were trying to take care of, learn from bad things happening. And the closer that bad thing is that happens to you, the more impact is gonna move. And so I was studying and trying to find fatalities and they were hard to find. So these people have their information was a wealth of my training and then I started delving deeper, I was actually diagnosed uh A number of years ago of having stage four. So you go through the nights of not sleeping and saying you know, I'm not gonna wake up in the morning, you know, you actually ground in your own fluids lovely ugly bits. Um But I ended up going to a specialist in san Antonio and in doing so did the X rays and he did the test and he told me he said you you don't have ssl oh thank you would tissue, you know, but I told him, I said maybe you can help me because he's a pulmonologist is a specialist. And I asked him about H. two s. And why it was category Misdiagnosed. And he told me, he said you know, it's interesting that you asked me that because I've been asked on four occasions to be an expert witness and I told him, I said you know, one thing that I've been told is because they don't do test on you and I'm talking about the corner, you'll find the cause of this when they finally do that H. Two S. Has made its way out of your system. And so how

[00:41:57] spk_1: long does that take? Usually

[00:42:00] spk_2: it depends on the body. Uh you know you you you look at shows that show people that have been exhumed those people, you know when we get sent to the happy hunting ground that make you look like a movie star, uh might be the best year in your life and when they dig you fingernails that go to your nose and hair, you know, you just so obviously the body doesn't quit immediately and it's gonna depend a lot on your your makeup. You know, if you have a liver that actually is the filter and screams the blood that is hampered because of a lot of alcohol, maybe you've done liver damage, doing uh prescription medication. Uh we're wrong. It depends on your body. And so it's it's hard to say you can take hours days. But the bottom line is because of that, the end in the chain of an H. Two S. Event causing fatality is cardiac arrest, H two S. Two spaces, the oxygen carrying capability in the blood strain. And so all of a sudden you're not oxygenating the brain. And so the brains, if you know, we've done all we can turn out the lights, the party's over. And so they send a message to the heart. Heart says, well, okay, and it shows down and now now you died of cardiac arrest. Um talked to three different emotional ocean regional directors and now they as their protocol, have someone that dies, especially out in a place like in the oil field or in remote areas. They take body fluid samples immediately upon time that it gets into the end of the morgue. Now they have what they can Start running through the gas chromatograph and and things that will read percentages out to the 10,000. Um some really sophisticated equipment and now all of a sudden. And I know, you know, I think it was about 2000 and 16 or 17. The especially refining world that people are going out there and they're popping hatches and getting hit with fumes, vapors, that kind of stuff. They had people that were dying. Some of them were unexplained. So they started doing testing on it and there's there's no telling how many people have died in the past. Um either chemical poisoning through vapors or fumes or from hydrogen. Uh

[00:45:16] spk_1: so you never know.

[00:45:18] spk_2: No, you don't. You don't. But bottom line Because if you want to live to be old, I'm old. I'm 73. uh I got some rough miles on me but you know, I'm still kicking if you want you better be small.

[00:45:47] spk_0: This episode has been powered by safety FM. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast or broadcast are those of the host and its guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within the past hour are only examples. They should not be utilized in the real world as the only solution available as they are based on very limited and dated open source information, assumptions made within this analysis are not reflective of the position of the company, No part of this podcast or broadcast may be reproduced stored within a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, electronic recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast or broadcast, Sheldon grimace.