Being "too nice" with Harry Spaight
April 23, 2021
Is being "too nice" bad?
Can you not make it to leadership by being too nice?
These were things guest, Harry Spaight, dealt with as being the person known for being "too nice" in the cut throat world of sales where screaming and yelling was the culture.
In this episode, we speak about what being too nice means and how it can hurt you if you become a walking mat. But if you execute correctly, it can accelerate you to the next level of success.
Is being "too nice" bad?
Can you not make it to leadership by being too nice?
These were things guest, Harry Spaight, dealt with as being the person known for being "too nice" in the cut throat world of sales where screaming and yelling was the culture.
In this episode, we speak about what being too nice means and how it can hurt you if you become a walking mat. But if you execute correctly, it can accelerate you to the next level of success.
About the guest:
Harry is a sales leader, podcast host and all around nice guy. He is about building relationship and having the stand the test of time. His delight in the celebrating humanity with those who are helping others through their driving passion is why he cost host the Thus the Lead Sell Grow podcast.
His philosophy and mission is based on a quote from Zig Ziglar, “You will get all you want in life, if you help enough other people get what they want.” We may not always know what we want, but this is where conversation can help in figuring it out.
[00:00:02] spk_1: this is This show is brought to you by Safety FM. Welcome to unapologetically bold. I'm not sorry for If you are a person that is tired of apologizing for being you, you know the human part of you that sometimes feels like it has to be different at home versus work versus play. The human side that just wants to be hot, humble, open and transparent about your wants, desires and uniqueness. If you answered yes, this is for you. Join me, Emily Elrod as I dive into conversations with Amazing Guest. About what? That you're not sorry for And creative and loving ways. Let's get started. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another unapologetically bold I'm not sorry for. And I'm blessed today, Toe have my friend here, Harry. Harry,
[00:01:01] spk_0: it's great to be here. Emily, What is the good word?
[00:01:04] spk_1: Yes, I am so pumped for this conversation for people to get to learn more about you and also get to have a fun and really conversation between two people. Um, about something that I think is important. So let's get into Harry. Tell me a little bit about yourself.
[00:01:25] spk_0: Oh, where do I begin? Emily, I'm going to keep this less than four hours. I promise. The you know, the thing about what I do is it's all about helping people. So I started out really just doing mission work in my early twenties and in my mid thirties, uh, I got in to sales because I really only knew how to speak with people, and I was a pretty good listener, and that started my sales career. And from there I just really blossomed into sales leadership, which is all about helping team. So that's really my passion is helping others. So somehow along the way, uh, my background being in the mission work, people have once or twice said, Harry, you are too nice eso I've had to put on this alter ego, which I never was comfortable with. So when you came across when we came across paths here and you said, Well, you're not sorry for being too nice we got to talk about that, I said, Okay, I think I could talk about that. So
[00:02:30] spk_1: and that's what that
[00:02:32] spk_0: mean. A nutshell.
[00:02:33] spk_1: Yes, and and let's let's grab and just go on and dive into it being saw. You're not sorry for being too nice, Which at first is like something where you were like, Why? Why do you need to be sorry? But in the game of sales? Exactly. It's very typically known as being cutthroat. Talk about that for a minute on why you're not sorry for being Yeah.
[00:03:01] spk_0: So it really stemmed from when I first started interviewing for sales jobs. People found out that I was a minister and so I wouldn't be able to tolerate bad language in the sales bullpen. Um, so I changed, right? I started using bad language myself because I had to blend in, uh, second thing. Waas When I got into sales leadership where I wanted to get into sales leadership, um, the president of the company I work for us that now Harry won't make it. He's just too nice. You need someone really to step on someone's throat. Uh, be nasty when they need to be nasty eso. When I got the job the first time to be in sales leadership, I had this alter ego and I remember distinctly to this day, and we're talking 15, almost 20 years later, uh, person, a rep who worked with me knew me before I was a manager and then knew me when I was a manager, she said, You know what? I like ume or when you were a sales rep and that cut me because I I thought it was the same person. But I was. I became a jerk because I had to be, you know, a little nastier. And so, yeah, that's, uh, I don't recommend that I've learned my lesson. That's not good.
[00:04:32] spk_1: And I think there's a fine line to where we say nice and what I usually mean because that's that's proverbial word that most people say is that you're too nice. But it's also nice and kind or two different words, and I feel like that's really where you were is nice, sometimes feels like a pushover or you can't. But kindness is where you're still honest. Kindnesses next to whatever I now also here. It is knowing you that ideo it's love that you were okay to show people that you were honest, but you're gonna be patient with them. You're going thio, not scream and yell. So whenever you had to be that total reverse, especially coming from the side of ministry How did that make you feel?
[00:05:17] spk_0: Yeah, so, uh, it was tough. And I appreciate you distinguishing between nice and kind because kind does mean to tell the person that they've got stuff in their teeth, right? You've got the spinach in your teeth on dure doing them a good deed, the and drives finishing my teeth by the No, I think I'm good. I think I'm good right now. A double check. Um, So where was I before that, you know? So it was It was really a challenge and right. And I'll honestly say that I did not fit in with the culture of the sales bullpen because people, I mean, some of my fellow managers were screamers eso they would scream at reps. And I'm like, Is that is that the way I'm supposed to be? So I adopted that, believe it or not, and it just wasn't me, right? And so I I was not sleeping. I said, you know, let me just go back into sales. So that was my first go around into sales leadership. But then I came back into it because I knew I was good at it. I just had to do things in the hairy spade fashion, right? Which was, you know, be the nice guy. Be fun loving, have people on the back, you know, not scold and verbally abused people. But, you know, just have conversations with my team, right? You know? And if someone is having a bad month, I wasn't gonna be raped them in front of others. That was just then. That's what people were doing. And it's just nonsensical. I mean, have you ever experienced anything like that?
[00:06:54] spk_1: Yes, I have. It makes me think of a time whenever I was in a meeting with a group with the HR group and one of the people just started berating me over something that was just nonsense and then another person. And it was almost like these bullies they all like swarmed on top because all their chance on and it was just so interesting at that time. And I told them during that meeting, because I I'm not a very emo emotional person, but that I got teared up. I'm like, Sure. Y yeah, it took me by surprise. I'm like, Why did you not tell me this three months ago? Why, you Yeah, and like and one on one. Why did you wait? It was almost in the total is almost six months later, after it had already things have already been done that you're just not gonna bring this to my attention. And I think that's important to what you were talking about earlier is about doing things based on what you saw. And so there is one ringleader. And then there were two people that just did what their boss did, and they did what they saw. And I actually had a conversation with somebody the other day. And I think this is something I want to talk to you about is basically the conversation is goes around that whenever you get into leadership, you have to be stoic. You have to be like this hero size person that you can't show your vulnerability because it may hurt you to get to the next level. Or you can't. You have to be the certain person because that's how everybody else has been. And that's how they get up the ladder. And what I hear on yours is yours is the first time. Once you realized Hey, this is not good for my health, but to I can't do it this way. I don't want to do it this way. So talk about that
[00:08:52] spk_0: for a minute. Yeah. I mean, that's such a fascinating of topic on the types of leadership styles. So, uh, that there's a great book, Um, that really opened up my eyes because I thought there was a few leadership styles. I didn't realize there were so many and how people can evolve along the way. But what you're describing frequently is the authoritarian style, right? They have no emotion. We do things my way around here. You don't question the boss. If you do, then the boss is going to face that as a challenge or view it as a challenge. And I just never liked those types of right. So I was, you know, coming from that background where I was serving others, I thought, you know, doing it my way. I don't care if I get promoted right. It's just before I felt like I had to act a certain way. And that really wasn't me. You know, when people when you walked in the room, no smiles. I mean, I'm walking in the room I'm cracking jokes, right? I'm cutting up, right, I'm having fun and I'm saying things like, What's the
[00:10:07] spk_1: good word? Right?
[00:10:08] spk_0: I enjoyed life, right? And you don't see that in an executive level meeting? Typically. So I like to change the game and there's a There's a spot for me, right? And you know, some organizations, they're gonna go with the authoritarians style and then others are going to say, you know, we want the servant guy, right? We want the people that serving others and helping people because that's our culture. And so that's where I fit in with those types of cultures. I'm And you too, right? I mean, are you the type of person that if I mean, I know you're not looking for a job, but say you were looking for a job and you have this responsibility I could tell right away. I mean, you started with prayer, and it's like, you know, your humble and humility and leadership that they really should be synonymous. I mean, they should be working together humility. When you're in leadership, you recognize your own flaws, right? And when you recognize your own flaws, then you can really help others. And it also one of the and asked, I'm gonna ask you this when you see a leader that says, Hey, you go do this, you go and you go do it right and I'm here if you need me versus the leader says, Let's go do this together, right? Who would you rather be with?
[00:11:37] spk_1: I like the one that will let me do it like together, you know, like
[00:11:42] spk_0: and why is that?
[00:11:43] spk_1: I love relationships. That's my thing. Um, and in building and growing with one another community
[00:11:51] spk_0: and especially if you like, When that person then gives you the credit, you did everything even better, right? Right. When the leader who has helped you doesn't say we but uses she and he did it, then those people will, in my opinion, run through a wall of fire for you.
[00:12:15] spk_1: Well, and that's what I've seen with my teams. My team, specifically, there's like I always talk about how one of my teammates, her name's Bonnie. She's been on the show as well, like she keeps me saying, and I always say, If it was not for her, half the stuff wouldn't be as good as it is, or John or Emily or Dominique like any of them. Like I am nowhere. You've got a email from me and I don't know if you read the comment below it, but what it says is the kiss of death is to be the genius with 10,000 helpers instead of the the genius with 10,000 geniuses. That's truly what I have is those geniuses. But here's the thing. I didn't realize this until I went through hell and high water and I had a leader who was more of a boss. Yeah, told you what to do, Directed you and then jokingly, because it was a joke. He took all the credit.
[00:13:11] spk_0: Oh, yeah, that's great.
[00:13:12] spk_1: And I'm just
[00:13:13] spk_0: like that brings up that builds up tons of loyalty, doesn't it? That's like,
[00:13:18] spk_1: I know you're joking and he's like, Ha ha, just a joke. And I'm like, But you didn't say who did it, you know, like UK and and those were the things that I found for me that were very frustrating at times because great person. But in the end, that's the thing, too, is he was a very nice human, but whenever it came to work. It was a different switch in that. And I think that's what I want to talk about. Two and leadership. There's a difference between being a nice human just in general and a nice and kind and loving leader. Because you could have nice people that you usually can keep your job a lot longer What I found. But you might not get some results if you don't have the leadership side of it.
[00:14:05] spk_0: Yeah, I mean, s 02 things. One just going back to the person That is joking. There's always I mean, ask any comic, right? Uh, there's always a measure of truth. There's some measure of truth in the joke. It comes from somewhere right on. Do you know people have egos and it is so hard to let go of the ego. I mean, I've been doing this for a long time. I'm not a kid anymore. I still struggle with the ego, right when I know I have done something that really made a situation a whole lot better. Do I want to take credit for it? Absolutely. Do I want a pat on the back Once in a while, of course I do. But it's the better reward is to give it to someone else, right? Let them get it. I mean, I I heard one bright guy once on I read it somewhere. Hey says that there's a greater happiness in giving than in receiving. I think I'm not sure if that's familiar to you, but right, let me ask you, have you ever been in a situation where you see someone maybe with their kids and their kids air jumping all over the place? Maybe they're in someone else's home? And the parents are just completely oblivious. And the kids air using the master bedroom as a trampoline, right? And so you look at the parents and you say, Well, they're so nice. They're not saying anything, but, you know, they probably should say something right. The people in the home should probably say, Yes, we're nice people, but you shouldn't use our bed as a trampoline for your eight year old right? That would be the thing to Dio. And when you see something like that, you say you need to say something right. I mean, it's just it's awkward that people are so nice that they don't say something. You feel like you need to say it for them. And sometimes you dio right, so that's a simple example. But you get the idea right or it could happen in a restaurant, whatever. While in leadership I've seen it where people are complete pushovers and there's there's a real danger. Let's be honest. So the idea off when someone lies started lying to me and I can think of a sales rep who would lie all the time. And I just I kept believing them, and I said, Okay, so that was a lie. And so we started counting the lies and say, You know what? This person now has a history of lines. Mhm. And so I stopped believing anything he said. I stopped believing, right, so he made his own bed, so to speak. And so, yes, I was the nice guy. He took advantage of me for a while, right? But that limit. When it reached the limit, I then said, You know, I don't believe you anymore on. And then one day he called and he said, I'm, uh, late for work because my car broke down here on the highway and I'm calling a tow track. And I said, You know what? Bring me the receipt from the tow truck And then he said, You know, I just I'm going to quit. So he quit on the spot because, you know, the lying shenanigans were over, and he was, you know, I called him out on it. So if I was a nice guy, I could have just put up with that for who knows how much longer. And I wasn't doing anyone any favors. So that, to me, is a difference, right? You could be nice, but just don't be taken. Don't be taken advantage of.
[00:17:44] spk_1: And I think it's very important because I see specifically I see some of my loved ones that are also not only just in leadership but also in life, that it's almost more of a people pleasing aspect. And then they don't wanna have those uncomfortable conversations because they don't want to upset somebody. And it makes me think of a time whenever I had to tell my son that and this is I would say pretty dramatic that this is definitely a difficult conversations that really one of the hardest. Whatever I had to tell my son that he was adopted. Eso He was five years old and I just remember I'd cried and cried for years. Like even before he was like, but born like even being pregnant. Like I'm gonna have to tell him, you know, like that his dad is not actually his dad. You know how he's going to take this on day. I'm like, Oh, my God, I just can't. Finally, I finally got up enough. I'm going to tell him because and And you know what he said, he goes, Oh, Mama, I guess that's the reason why I'm white White, not white
[00:18:56] spk_0: Dark. You brought with it a whole lot better than you dealt with it, right?
[00:19:05] spk_1: Exactly. But that's the thing is nice people. Sometimes I feel like we make these stories in our head that are so far off and so far bad, because maybe we might have experienced a hard conversation that went, Somebody just did that. Or it was a conversation that just went south really quick. And those come to mind and you feel like that's gonna be resurfaced, you know? And it's not and, you know, like even asking the guy for a receipt. It makes me think of that trust. But verify, you know, exactly kind of aspect.
[00:19:39] spk_0: Absolutely. And that's I don't know if I got it from that, but I'm a huge believer in the trust, but verify line. Um, so the idea of what you said about your son I mean, you don't want to disappoint people, right? You don't wanna let people down. So people like us who don't want to let people down have a hard time with those crucial conversations, right? It's You gotta have them. Um, And if you ignore it, time goes by. And what happens gets worse, right? Yeah. And then it Z, why didn't you tell me sooner than you have that conversation? Sort of like what you're saying with I find interesting when the earlier conversation, when you're in the conference. Romans, You know, everyone was gang up on you. Maybe something was triggered and person felt more comfortable because someone said something. And then they jumped on you. Because now it was a safe tree for them, Not for you, right, but for them. And so that's when they started piling on. But really good leadership. Um, someone would have pulled you aside and had the difficult conversation, and it probably wasn't that difficult for most people. But some people just can't deal with it there. And that's where nice is not always good, right? It's You gotta be kind, right? I love and I'm getting that from you. I'm plagiarizing you because that's great wisdom.
[00:21:17] spk_1: But I think it's true. It's it's that there's a big difference in it and also, but the what we usually here is a nice guy, and what I've heard in the past is nice. Guys finish last s. So I think that's important to say and talk about how being nice, how spending time with people, what housing them as humans actually doesn't end you in last place. Typically, it puts you in the front of the line. So I want to talk about that for a minute.
[00:21:49] spk_0: Yeah, so I love it. I mean, because that is just the old ad is nice. Guys, finish last is I mean, it was written by the Mafia. I mean, I don't know who came up on that praise, but it's not true on dykan say that I I'm very competitive, right? I'm nice, kind. And I think my family would agree with those statements. I'm not just saying that, because I wanna, you know, fake myself out. But I'm competitive, Andi, in the sense that I don't know what drives the competition When I was an athlete, um, and I use the term very loosely, but I did play, uh, at the high school golf team, and I grew up playing hockey. I was competitive, but I wasn't like I had to win. I wasn't that guy, but I wanted to be successful. And so when I went in business on this, we all have egos, right? So, in business, when once there was competition on the line for between sales teams, I looked at others, and I say, Well, they're not any better than my team. Right? And my team, we have camaraderie and we get along and we're treating people well. And, you know, I'm going, I'm going to drive this to be the top team. Right? So we started talking about It's like, Why can't we be the top team? And, you know, for a long time I don't remember the exact I'm not into that But, I mean, I remember that we were the number one team for their company out of six. The point where my sales leader took people off of my team and said, I need to strengthen the other teams and your quota is going up even though you're losing your top performers. Andi, that would make me really mad, right? And Mork competitive and say, Guess what? I'll still be the top dog next year. And that drove me right? And so he played me for that because he I'm looking back. He knew that was the way I was gonna be If he took it from someone else, they probably would have left right there. Probably wouldn't quit. But he saw that I was competitive and wanted to win. But, you know, you still do that being nice, right? You don't
[00:24:06] spk_1: have to
[00:24:06] spk_0: be a jerk to be competitive, right? You don't have to cut people off at the knees. You can be friendly, competitive for a friendly competition. Been sort of like the whole state of politics today, right? I think it's a complete joke that people can't have conversations anymore. I mean, I don't wanna go. Go political here. But it's the same deal, right? We're different. You could have conversations. I may wanna win. Doesn't mean I hate you. Doesn't mean you're stupid. Doesn't mean that you need to die because you believe differently. I just wanted to win because of it feels better toe
[00:24:48] spk_1: win. That's all. Exactly. And I think that's very important, too, because that makes me think of another one that I won't go down the rabbit hole of. But somebody said, is that My opinion is not debatable. I'm like, Oh, but should it be like Let's just have everybody's opinion debatable. It just it's just us having a conversation is that we don't know how toe have those tough conversations just to get to know each other Mawr and I think that's another part about being that competitive. I'm the one that does not let my kid win it, you know, and I have a six year old enough e o E o. So competitive I call it I am 14. So I called my my little girl syndrome eso with that, like I love to win. I can't stand to lose, but in that what I like of it is that it's a long game like winning. You can have quick winds, but in sales and in life and in leadership. Yes, there's quick winds, but those long winds have bigger returns on it. And so I love that you said that in a year at least, knowing that it's going to take a year or two years to be able to get back on top, you know, and not being unrealistic and saying, Oh, I got this by next quarter, you know, because you can't demand that of people. But that's what people do that that I know that our competitive, they're like, Oh, okay, it worked for me exactly This way. You should do this exactly this way and given eliminating all their choice. And that is more of that directive of saying what you should do instead of going to, Here's an invitation or here's a thought. Tell me what you think. How can how can we do this or how do you see it differently? How do we have a conversation around this?
[00:26:42] spk_0: Yeah, that's great. When you when you are talking about you surround yourself with other geniuses, what makes them geniuses?
[00:26:50] spk_1: They can contribute back, and it is really just my I find their strengths, and it is war. What mine is.
[00:26:57] spk_0: Yeah. So you see the strength and other people, right? So, you know, the problem with a lot of leaders is that they think everyone's like them, right? And e
[00:27:10] spk_1: for a minute, they sometimes surround themselves with
[00:27:13] spk_0: people that
[00:27:15] spk_1: air. Yes, man, that air like them.
[00:27:16] spk_0: Yeah, that's true. But I think of you follow sports at all.
[00:27:21] spk_1: Oh, yes.
[00:27:22] spk_0: Okay, So you probably heard of Michael Jordan? Uh, he's he can't coach basketball, right? He can play basketball, But he can't coach basketball because people are not like Michael Jordan. Right? And he had a riel problem with that is that he just assumed people were like him that everyone wanted to be their absolute best, right? And he would go crazy to be the best and went crazy when people did not follow his example. Larry Bird was another one. He just They're not good coaches. A lot of them. It's interesting that the ones who are not great players are better coaches because they can relate to the players better.
[00:28:12] spk_1: The
[00:28:12] spk_0: ones who are superstars typically struggle with coaching because they can't relate. They cannot relate to bad days, mediocrity, lack of industriousness and practice. And so when you look at sales leaders, typically they come out of sales. I mean, almost 100% of the time they come out of sales. They were a top performer, and they have No, they never thought about anyone else. They only thought about themselves. And now they have a team and it's like, Yeah, I just do it. Just go do it like I did I mean and expect people to follow. But what you said about the geniuses is that they have their own strengths. So sales people have their own strength. We're not all like I mean, a lot of us are jerks. Let's get that out of the way. But in general, there are things that are traits about us that people like, right. Some are great listeners. Some are great story tellers. Some will go the extra mile and pick up the phone at two o'clock in the morning and solve a problem. Right and others are, you know, they're different strengths. Different people do different things. So a good leader, well, shouldn't they recognize those different strengths and praise people and develop those strengths so that they become even better at what they dio.
[00:29:33] spk_1: Oh yeah, right,
[00:29:35] spk_0: that makes sense. Or what you thought of.
[00:29:36] spk_1: Yes, I love that, and that's what I love. We do some work on this, and what we say is there's people that typically talk about a problem. There's people that find a problem there, people that will think about a problem. There are people that would do things about a problem, and in my role I want to make. And each of these are strength. Some people can do both. But in in my role, I think about even the people that I have. A guy named John he has in the past has a past of working on suicide hotlines. You think man can listen. He's the most empathetic listener and he can. He came here. You have other ones that can find problems, and they're just very creative in ways of addressing problems in ways that I might not think of. I'm typically the do er. I love to get things done, finding people that can do everything in those what I found for my team is that it has made us more have a greater group together. Hey, don't have somebody. And so that's what I think too of this is you have people that might be better with a certain client, comparative to another, and it allows you to as a later or even even at home. It allows you to deploy strength of your people like one of my kids. Literally. Today we were me and Bonnie. We were working on assessment that we were doing, and I'm like, I feel like I'm overthinking this. I brought my nine year old in here and I said, Hey, does this makes it?
[00:31:13] spk_0: Oh, my goodness.
[00:31:15] spk_1: And he's like, I don't know. I was like, Okay, what is Mommy saying? And he put it back like, Oh, this is reason. I love you like any time I'm overthinking things. I send it to him for him to simplify because he's a thinker, right? Knows how to say it, even at nine.
[00:31:31] spk_0: My goodness, that's such a great Yeah, that's a great story.
[00:31:34] spk_1: We able to do the work that is needed. So those are the things like, it doesn't have to just be at work. It can also be at home that that you can infuse the two.
[00:31:43] spk_0: Yeah, absolutely. The It's funny that reminded me of, ah, person that was on my team, who was loved to use, like, five syllable words, right? And my eyes would glass over and, you know, you take a deep breath and then he would just spew out thes ridiculous words. And I said, Dude, you need to speak like I'm in third grade right on that. If I can understand that as a third grader, then the prospects and clients will be able to understand you. But you're not bright by using huge words, right? Five syllable words does not make you smarter. It's just it tells me you looked up something that that Zo it's not anyway. But you're it's proof, right? That your nine year old can help you is just Ah, it's beautiful.
[00:32:39] spk_1: Well, thank you. I think that's a part going back to that band. Too. Nice or too kind. I hear people like what a lot of times, whenever I say my kids are a lot of my editors because for me, I want it to make it where people can understand it instead of I can give you huge words. I'm I'm a nerd for
[00:33:01] spk_0: nerd, for dollars. I heard, right?
[00:33:03] spk_1: Yes, I'm a nerd from now for anything people, places and things I can nerd out with you and how they work. And I can go deep in theory from a PhD level, um, to all the way. But the thing is, is why? Why, whenever you could make it simple? Somebody told me this the other day, and it was, um, Winston Churchill. And what he said is that it's lawful to use too many words in essence. And he was talking about how people would give him tons of work. And he's like, just narrow it down and give me Give me one thing that helps me understand, like an executive, uh, overview of it. Right? And that's the thing that I feel like There's a lot of times we can talk and talk and talk. But what if we could just narrow it down? Keep it simple. The kiss method method. Keep it simple, silly, like, let's just do that. And for me, my strength, I found my genius is my time. One that can interpret my huge words and make it where it's like. Okay, Okay. So I And here's the interesting thing to that I think is cool. What you talked about is did you find where your like? Whenever you saw somebody with a strength, did you ever pair them up like a somebody that
[00:34:20] spk_0: Oh, my God, Yes,
[00:34:22] spk_1: And seeing how they grow.
[00:34:24] spk_0: Oh, my goodness. And it's so funny because sales is such a a lone wolf mentality, right? I mean, so you know, the top performers air typically lone wolves frequently. They're not collaborators in general. But you know, when you bring on a new person and you ask the lone Wolf to show the new person the ropes, you know they don't want to do it right, because it's like, Look, they're messing with me. I don't have time for this. I'm a top producer. But if you say look, whatever they find you get toe work and make some money, then it's like, Oh, okay, so I basically have a prospector or someone that's gonna help me do errands and get rid of the stuff I don't wanna dio. And yes, I'll be happy to help that person so I had to find what? Why a lone wolf would wanna work with others. But then the benefit of that is a newer person gets, ah, lot of experience pretty quickly, eh? So, yeah, I loved it And, you know, just walking in, not coming from sales leadership and just saying, Well, I'm hiring people. They don't know what the heck they're doing. I got these people that do know what the heck they're doing. Maybe I could put them together. I don't know anyone thought of this, but you know, the criticism I got right. So I remember, uh, someone saying, Well, you know, Harry's got this thing going where he's got people pairing up together. So now you've got two people doing the work of one person. So we're paying to people do the work of one, right? So I said, Well, get over it, right, well, and let's just say the one person who was doing half the job or a third of the job wouldn't be doing any of the job. If he wasn't where she wasn't with someone with the experience, they would be discouraged. They go to the mall, they go to a movie. You know, these are all the stories of sales people that just go to the Starbucks and hang out all day and get on Facebook because they don't You know, they don't have what they need, which is, ah, story to tell. Confidence, you know, wins and then get all that by working with tenured people. So that's Yeah, I'm a huge believer, not. Sounds like you are, too.
[00:36:47] spk_1: Yes. Yes, I am. I think it's very important. Especially especially in the first two years in the growth phase of anybody doing anything. So so to bring it all back around, Um, that possible list. We're gonna try. You have the skills, bring the nine year
[00:37:06] spk_0: old in. I want to hear what
[00:37:08] spk_1: he would say. No. Right. So for people that are apologizing for being too nice, what would you tell them?
[00:37:20] spk_0: Yeah, so I'd get into it a little bit with them and say, as long as you are kind, as long as you know, win to be, you know, to put an end. If someone was taking advantage of you as long as you know that line and you can put it to a stop, then people are just going to love you for being kind, right? And it's okay. And you can be successful. You can be a winner. You can be a top dog. Um, but you gotta You can't be a person that just gets walked over. You gotta have spine. And, uh, yeah, I'm here in your corner. If you need me, I'll be happy to give you some tips on it. But, yeah, it's what I lived through. And, uh, I love it, right. It's helping others. And being competitive don't have to be a contradiction.
[00:38:15] spk_1: Yes. And I think it's the one thing that I I love. It's a breath of fresh air. It's like you get such negativity as is toe walk in to see somebody just be nice and kind and to care. Wow. So I appreciate you for that, Harry. And for anybody is listening to this and wants to reach out to you. Where can they find you?
[00:38:38] spk_0: Well, the best thing is, um, on Lincoln s o Harry spate, um, and then also our Facebook group with my co host of lead cell growth. So we have a lead sell grow facebook group, Um, and you'll find fellow sales people. We try to give valuable guidance there. My co host, Eric Kind of Olive. So that is probably the best place. And this has been a real blast. Emily, you're awesome. I love your stories. Uh, you know, they there's a point where I actually got a chill about the person One on the suicide line. E mean, that's to me is, you know, you're a godsend if you could do that type of work. And if you know, I don't know anyone that does that right. You know, someone that does that to me, it's like hats off to those people because the world needs them, right?
[00:39:28] spk_1: Amen to that. And And that person specifically John. He is a God sent like ability to live and how much I could grow from like we're speaking a little bit from his tenure in his learning and his lessons in that. And how much does grown me as a human. So it's been just like this conversation has been such a blessing. Thank you so much. And thank you for all that will listen and have an awesome and blessed day. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of unapologetically bold I'm not sorry for if this to shoot anyway, please, like and subscribe and share with your friends as we continue the message of being unapologetically bold, Bobby and hot humans who are humble, open and transparent. See you next time.
Can you not make it to leadership by being too nice?
These were things guest, Harry Spaight, dealt with as being the person known for being "too nice" in the cut throat world of sales where screaming and yelling was the culture.
In this episode, we speak about what being too nice means and how it can hurt you if you become a walking mat. But if you execute correctly, it can accelerate you to the next level of success.
About the guest:
Harry is a sales leader, podcast host and all around nice guy. He is about building relationship and having the stand the test of time. His delight in the celebrating humanity with those who are helping others through their driving passion is why he cost host the Thus the Lead Sell Grow podcast.
His philosophy and mission is based on a quote from Zig Ziglar, “You will get all you want in life, if you help enough other people get what they want.” We may not always know what we want, but this is where conversation can help in figuring it out.
[00:00:02] spk_1: this is This show is brought to you by Safety FM. Welcome to unapologetically bold. I'm not sorry for If you are a person that is tired of apologizing for being you, you know the human part of you that sometimes feels like it has to be different at home versus work versus play. The human side that just wants to be hot, humble, open and transparent about your wants, desires and uniqueness. If you answered yes, this is for you. Join me, Emily Elrod as I dive into conversations with Amazing Guest. About what? That you're not sorry for And creative and loving ways. Let's get started. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another unapologetically bold I'm not sorry for. And I'm blessed today, Toe have my friend here, Harry. Harry,
[00:01:01] spk_0: it's great to be here. Emily, What is the good word?
[00:01:04] spk_1: Yes, I am so pumped for this conversation for people to get to learn more about you and also get to have a fun and really conversation between two people. Um, about something that I think is important. So let's get into Harry. Tell me a little bit about yourself.
[00:01:25] spk_0: Oh, where do I begin? Emily, I'm going to keep this less than four hours. I promise. The you know, the thing about what I do is it's all about helping people. So I started out really just doing mission work in my early twenties and in my mid thirties, uh, I got in to sales because I really only knew how to speak with people, and I was a pretty good listener, and that started my sales career. And from there I just really blossomed into sales leadership, which is all about helping team. So that's really my passion is helping others. So somehow along the way, uh, my background being in the mission work, people have once or twice said, Harry, you are too nice eso I've had to put on this alter ego, which I never was comfortable with. So when you came across when we came across paths here and you said, Well, you're not sorry for being too nice we got to talk about that, I said, Okay, I think I could talk about that. So
[00:02:30] spk_1: and that's what that
[00:02:32] spk_0: mean. A nutshell.
[00:02:33] spk_1: Yes, and and let's let's grab and just go on and dive into it being saw. You're not sorry for being too nice, Which at first is like something where you were like, Why? Why do you need to be sorry? But in the game of sales? Exactly. It's very typically known as being cutthroat. Talk about that for a minute on why you're not sorry for being Yeah.
[00:03:01] spk_0: So it really stemmed from when I first started interviewing for sales jobs. People found out that I was a minister and so I wouldn't be able to tolerate bad language in the sales bullpen. Um, so I changed, right? I started using bad language myself because I had to blend in, uh, second thing. Waas When I got into sales leadership where I wanted to get into sales leadership, um, the president of the company I work for us that now Harry won't make it. He's just too nice. You need someone really to step on someone's throat. Uh, be nasty when they need to be nasty eso. When I got the job the first time to be in sales leadership, I had this alter ego and I remember distinctly to this day, and we're talking 15, almost 20 years later, uh, person, a rep who worked with me knew me before I was a manager and then knew me when I was a manager, she said, You know what? I like ume or when you were a sales rep and that cut me because I I thought it was the same person. But I was. I became a jerk because I had to be, you know, a little nastier. And so, yeah, that's, uh, I don't recommend that I've learned my lesson. That's not good.
[00:04:32] spk_1: And I think there's a fine line to where we say nice and what I usually mean because that's that's proverbial word that most people say is that you're too nice. But it's also nice and kind or two different words, and I feel like that's really where you were is nice, sometimes feels like a pushover or you can't. But kindness is where you're still honest. Kindnesses next to whatever I now also here. It is knowing you that ideo it's love that you were okay to show people that you were honest, but you're gonna be patient with them. You're going thio, not scream and yell. So whenever you had to be that total reverse, especially coming from the side of ministry How did that make you feel?
[00:05:17] spk_0: Yeah, so, uh, it was tough. And I appreciate you distinguishing between nice and kind because kind does mean to tell the person that they've got stuff in their teeth, right? You've got the spinach in your teeth on dure doing them a good deed, the and drives finishing my teeth by the No, I think I'm good. I think I'm good right now. A double check. Um, So where was I before that, you know? So it was It was really a challenge and right. And I'll honestly say that I did not fit in with the culture of the sales bullpen because people, I mean, some of my fellow managers were screamers eso they would scream at reps. And I'm like, Is that is that the way I'm supposed to be? So I adopted that, believe it or not, and it just wasn't me, right? And so I I was not sleeping. I said, you know, let me just go back into sales. So that was my first go around into sales leadership. But then I came back into it because I knew I was good at it. I just had to do things in the hairy spade fashion, right? Which was, you know, be the nice guy. Be fun loving, have people on the back, you know, not scold and verbally abused people. But, you know, just have conversations with my team, right? You know? And if someone is having a bad month, I wasn't gonna be raped them in front of others. That was just then. That's what people were doing. And it's just nonsensical. I mean, have you ever experienced anything like that?
[00:06:54] spk_1: Yes, I have. It makes me think of a time whenever I was in a meeting with a group with the HR group and one of the people just started berating me over something that was just nonsense and then another person. And it was almost like these bullies they all like swarmed on top because all their chance on and it was just so interesting at that time. And I told them during that meeting, because I I'm not a very emo emotional person, but that I got teared up. I'm like, Sure. Y yeah, it took me by surprise. I'm like, Why did you not tell me this three months ago? Why, you Yeah, and like and one on one. Why did you wait? It was almost in the total is almost six months later, after it had already things have already been done that you're just not gonna bring this to my attention. And I think that's important to what you were talking about earlier is about doing things based on what you saw. And so there is one ringleader. And then there were two people that just did what their boss did, and they did what they saw. And I actually had a conversation with somebody the other day. And I think this is something I want to talk to you about is basically the conversation is goes around that whenever you get into leadership, you have to be stoic. You have to be like this hero size person that you can't show your vulnerability because it may hurt you to get to the next level. Or you can't. You have to be the certain person because that's how everybody else has been. And that's how they get up the ladder. And what I hear on yours is yours is the first time. Once you realized Hey, this is not good for my health, but to I can't do it this way. I don't want to do it this way. So talk about that
[00:08:52] spk_0: for a minute. Yeah. I mean, that's such a fascinating of topic on the types of leadership styles. So, uh, that there's a great book, Um, that really opened up my eyes because I thought there was a few leadership styles. I didn't realize there were so many and how people can evolve along the way. But what you're describing frequently is the authoritarian style, right? They have no emotion. We do things my way around here. You don't question the boss. If you do, then the boss is going to face that as a challenge or view it as a challenge. And I just never liked those types of right. So I was, you know, coming from that background where I was serving others, I thought, you know, doing it my way. I don't care if I get promoted right. It's just before I felt like I had to act a certain way. And that really wasn't me. You know, when people when you walked in the room, no smiles. I mean, I'm walking in the room I'm cracking jokes, right? I'm cutting up, right, I'm having fun and I'm saying things like, What's the
[00:10:07] spk_1: good word? Right?
[00:10:08] spk_0: I enjoyed life, right? And you don't see that in an executive level meeting? Typically. So I like to change the game and there's a There's a spot for me, right? And you know, some organizations, they're gonna go with the authoritarians style and then others are going to say, you know, we want the servant guy, right? We want the people that serving others and helping people because that's our culture. And so that's where I fit in with those types of cultures. I'm And you too, right? I mean, are you the type of person that if I mean, I know you're not looking for a job, but say you were looking for a job and you have this responsibility I could tell right away. I mean, you started with prayer, and it's like, you know, your humble and humility and leadership that they really should be synonymous. I mean, they should be working together humility. When you're in leadership, you recognize your own flaws, right? And when you recognize your own flaws, then you can really help others. And it also one of the and asked, I'm gonna ask you this when you see a leader that says, Hey, you go do this, you go and you go do it right and I'm here if you need me versus the leader says, Let's go do this together, right? Who would you rather be with?
[00:11:37] spk_1: I like the one that will let me do it like together, you know, like
[00:11:42] spk_0: and why is that?
[00:11:43] spk_1: I love relationships. That's my thing. Um, and in building and growing with one another community
[00:11:51] spk_0: and especially if you like, When that person then gives you the credit, you did everything even better, right? Right. When the leader who has helped you doesn't say we but uses she and he did it, then those people will, in my opinion, run through a wall of fire for you.
[00:12:15] spk_1: Well, and that's what I've seen with my teams. My team, specifically, there's like I always talk about how one of my teammates, her name's Bonnie. She's been on the show as well, like she keeps me saying, and I always say, If it was not for her, half the stuff wouldn't be as good as it is, or John or Emily or Dominique like any of them. Like I am nowhere. You've got a email from me and I don't know if you read the comment below it, but what it says is the kiss of death is to be the genius with 10,000 helpers instead of the the genius with 10,000 geniuses. That's truly what I have is those geniuses. But here's the thing. I didn't realize this until I went through hell and high water and I had a leader who was more of a boss. Yeah, told you what to do, Directed you and then jokingly, because it was a joke. He took all the credit.
[00:13:11] spk_0: Oh, yeah, that's great.
[00:13:12] spk_1: And I'm just
[00:13:13] spk_0: like that brings up that builds up tons of loyalty, doesn't it? That's like,
[00:13:18] spk_1: I know you're joking and he's like, Ha ha, just a joke. And I'm like, But you didn't say who did it, you know, like UK and and those were the things that I found for me that were very frustrating at times because great person. But in the end, that's the thing, too, is he was a very nice human, but whenever it came to work. It was a different switch in that. And I think that's what I want to talk about. Two and leadership. There's a difference between being a nice human just in general and a nice and kind and loving leader. Because you could have nice people that you usually can keep your job a lot longer What I found. But you might not get some results if you don't have the leadership side of it.
[00:14:05] spk_0: Yeah, I mean, s 02 things. One just going back to the person That is joking. There's always I mean, ask any comic, right? Uh, there's always a measure of truth. There's some measure of truth in the joke. It comes from somewhere right on. Do you know people have egos and it is so hard to let go of the ego. I mean, I've been doing this for a long time. I'm not a kid anymore. I still struggle with the ego, right when I know I have done something that really made a situation a whole lot better. Do I want to take credit for it? Absolutely. Do I want a pat on the back Once in a while, of course I do. But it's the better reward is to give it to someone else, right? Let them get it. I mean, I I heard one bright guy once on I read it somewhere. Hey says that there's a greater happiness in giving than in receiving. I think I'm not sure if that's familiar to you, but right, let me ask you, have you ever been in a situation where you see someone maybe with their kids and their kids air jumping all over the place? Maybe they're in someone else's home? And the parents are just completely oblivious. And the kids air using the master bedroom as a trampoline, right? And so you look at the parents and you say, Well, they're so nice. They're not saying anything, but, you know, they probably should say something right. The people in the home should probably say, Yes, we're nice people, but you shouldn't use our bed as a trampoline for your eight year old right? That would be the thing to Dio. And when you see something like that, you say you need to say something right. I mean, it's just it's awkward that people are so nice that they don't say something. You feel like you need to say it for them. And sometimes you dio right, so that's a simple example. But you get the idea right or it could happen in a restaurant, whatever. While in leadership I've seen it where people are complete pushovers and there's there's a real danger. Let's be honest. So the idea off when someone lies started lying to me and I can think of a sales rep who would lie all the time. And I just I kept believing them, and I said, Okay, so that was a lie. And so we started counting the lies and say, You know what? This person now has a history of lines. Mhm. And so I stopped believing anything he said. I stopped believing, right, so he made his own bed, so to speak. And so, yes, I was the nice guy. He took advantage of me for a while, right? But that limit. When it reached the limit, I then said, You know, I don't believe you anymore on. And then one day he called and he said, I'm, uh, late for work because my car broke down here on the highway and I'm calling a tow track. And I said, You know what? Bring me the receipt from the tow truck And then he said, You know, I just I'm going to quit. So he quit on the spot because, you know, the lying shenanigans were over, and he was, you know, I called him out on it. So if I was a nice guy, I could have just put up with that for who knows how much longer. And I wasn't doing anyone any favors. So that, to me, is a difference, right? You could be nice, but just don't be taken. Don't be taken advantage of.
[00:17:44] spk_1: And I think it's very important because I see specifically I see some of my loved ones that are also not only just in leadership but also in life, that it's almost more of a people pleasing aspect. And then they don't wanna have those uncomfortable conversations because they don't want to upset somebody. And it makes me think of a time whenever I had to tell my son that and this is I would say pretty dramatic that this is definitely a difficult conversations that really one of the hardest. Whatever I had to tell my son that he was adopted. Eso He was five years old and I just remember I'd cried and cried for years. Like even before he was like, but born like even being pregnant. Like I'm gonna have to tell him, you know, like that his dad is not actually his dad. You know how he's going to take this on day. I'm like, Oh, my God, I just can't. Finally, I finally got up enough. I'm going to tell him because and And you know what he said, he goes, Oh, Mama, I guess that's the reason why I'm white White, not white
[00:18:56] spk_0: Dark. You brought with it a whole lot better than you dealt with it, right?
[00:19:05] spk_1: Exactly. But that's the thing is nice people. Sometimes I feel like we make these stories in our head that are so far off and so far bad, because maybe we might have experienced a hard conversation that went, Somebody just did that. Or it was a conversation that just went south really quick. And those come to mind and you feel like that's gonna be resurfaced, you know? And it's not and, you know, like even asking the guy for a receipt. It makes me think of that trust. But verify, you know, exactly kind of aspect.
[00:19:39] spk_0: Absolutely. And that's I don't know if I got it from that, but I'm a huge believer in the trust, but verify line. Um, so the idea of what you said about your son I mean, you don't want to disappoint people, right? You don't wanna let people down. So people like us who don't want to let people down have a hard time with those crucial conversations, right? It's You gotta have them. Um, And if you ignore it, time goes by. And what happens gets worse, right? Yeah. And then it Z, why didn't you tell me sooner than you have that conversation? Sort of like what you're saying with I find interesting when the earlier conversation, when you're in the conference. Romans, You know, everyone was gang up on you. Maybe something was triggered and person felt more comfortable because someone said something. And then they jumped on you. Because now it was a safe tree for them, Not for you, right, but for them. And so that's when they started piling on. But really good leadership. Um, someone would have pulled you aside and had the difficult conversation, and it probably wasn't that difficult for most people. But some people just can't deal with it there. And that's where nice is not always good, right? It's You gotta be kind, right? I love and I'm getting that from you. I'm plagiarizing you because that's great wisdom.
[00:21:17] spk_1: But I think it's true. It's it's that there's a big difference in it and also, but the what we usually here is a nice guy, and what I've heard in the past is nice. Guys finish last s. So I think that's important to say and talk about how being nice, how spending time with people, what housing them as humans actually doesn't end you in last place. Typically, it puts you in the front of the line. So I want to talk about that for a minute.
[00:21:49] spk_0: Yeah, so I love it. I mean, because that is just the old ad is nice. Guys, finish last is I mean, it was written by the Mafia. I mean, I don't know who came up on that praise, but it's not true on dykan say that I I'm very competitive, right? I'm nice, kind. And I think my family would agree with those statements. I'm not just saying that, because I wanna, you know, fake myself out. But I'm competitive, Andi, in the sense that I don't know what drives the competition When I was an athlete, um, and I use the term very loosely, but I did play, uh, at the high school golf team, and I grew up playing hockey. I was competitive, but I wasn't like I had to win. I wasn't that guy, but I wanted to be successful. And so when I went in business on this, we all have egos, right? So, in business, when once there was competition on the line for between sales teams, I looked at others, and I say, Well, they're not any better than my team. Right? And my team, we have camaraderie and we get along and we're treating people well. And, you know, I'm going, I'm going to drive this to be the top team. Right? So we started talking about It's like, Why can't we be the top team? And, you know, for a long time I don't remember the exact I'm not into that But, I mean, I remember that we were the number one team for their company out of six. The point where my sales leader took people off of my team and said, I need to strengthen the other teams and your quota is going up even though you're losing your top performers. Andi, that would make me really mad, right? And Mork competitive and say, Guess what? I'll still be the top dog next year. And that drove me right? And so he played me for that because he I'm looking back. He knew that was the way I was gonna be If he took it from someone else, they probably would have left right there. Probably wouldn't quit. But he saw that I was competitive and wanted to win. But, you know, you still do that being nice, right? You don't
[00:24:06] spk_1: have to
[00:24:06] spk_0: be a jerk to be competitive, right? You don't have to cut people off at the knees. You can be friendly, competitive for a friendly competition. Been sort of like the whole state of politics today, right? I think it's a complete joke that people can't have conversations anymore. I mean, I don't wanna go. Go political here. But it's the same deal, right? We're different. You could have conversations. I may wanna win. Doesn't mean I hate you. Doesn't mean you're stupid. Doesn't mean that you need to die because you believe differently. I just wanted to win because of it feels better toe
[00:24:48] spk_1: win. That's all. Exactly. And I think that's very important, too, because that makes me think of another one that I won't go down the rabbit hole of. But somebody said, is that My opinion is not debatable. I'm like, Oh, but should it be like Let's just have everybody's opinion debatable. It just it's just us having a conversation is that we don't know how toe have those tough conversations just to get to know each other Mawr and I think that's another part about being that competitive. I'm the one that does not let my kid win it, you know, and I have a six year old enough e o E o. So competitive I call it I am 14. So I called my my little girl syndrome eso with that, like I love to win. I can't stand to lose, but in that what I like of it is that it's a long game like winning. You can have quick winds, but in sales and in life and in leadership. Yes, there's quick winds, but those long winds have bigger returns on it. And so I love that you said that in a year at least, knowing that it's going to take a year or two years to be able to get back on top, you know, and not being unrealistic and saying, Oh, I got this by next quarter, you know, because you can't demand that of people. But that's what people do that that I know that our competitive, they're like, Oh, okay, it worked for me exactly This way. You should do this exactly this way and given eliminating all their choice. And that is more of that directive of saying what you should do instead of going to, Here's an invitation or here's a thought. Tell me what you think. How can how can we do this or how do you see it differently? How do we have a conversation around this?
[00:26:42] spk_0: Yeah, that's great. When you when you are talking about you surround yourself with other geniuses, what makes them geniuses?
[00:26:50] spk_1: They can contribute back, and it is really just my I find their strengths, and it is war. What mine is.
[00:26:57] spk_0: Yeah. So you see the strength and other people, right? So, you know, the problem with a lot of leaders is that they think everyone's like them, right? And e
[00:27:10] spk_1: for a minute, they sometimes surround themselves with
[00:27:13] spk_0: people that
[00:27:15] spk_1: air. Yes, man, that air like them.
[00:27:16] spk_0: Yeah, that's true. But I think of you follow sports at all.
[00:27:21] spk_1: Oh, yes.
[00:27:22] spk_0: Okay, So you probably heard of Michael Jordan? Uh, he's he can't coach basketball, right? He can play basketball, But he can't coach basketball because people are not like Michael Jordan. Right? And he had a riel problem with that is that he just assumed people were like him that everyone wanted to be their absolute best, right? And he would go crazy to be the best and went crazy when people did not follow his example. Larry Bird was another one. He just They're not good coaches. A lot of them. It's interesting that the ones who are not great players are better coaches because they can relate to the players better.
[00:28:12] spk_1: The
[00:28:12] spk_0: ones who are superstars typically struggle with coaching because they can't relate. They cannot relate to bad days, mediocrity, lack of industriousness and practice. And so when you look at sales leaders, typically they come out of sales. I mean, almost 100% of the time they come out of sales. They were a top performer, and they have No, they never thought about anyone else. They only thought about themselves. And now they have a team and it's like, Yeah, I just do it. Just go do it like I did I mean and expect people to follow. But what you said about the geniuses is that they have their own strengths. So sales people have their own strength. We're not all like I mean, a lot of us are jerks. Let's get that out of the way. But in general, there are things that are traits about us that people like, right. Some are great listeners. Some are great story tellers. Some will go the extra mile and pick up the phone at two o'clock in the morning and solve a problem. Right and others are, you know, they're different strengths. Different people do different things. So a good leader, well, shouldn't they recognize those different strengths and praise people and develop those strengths so that they become even better at what they dio.
[00:29:33] spk_1: Oh yeah, right,
[00:29:35] spk_0: that makes sense. Or what you thought of.
[00:29:36] spk_1: Yes, I love that, and that's what I love. We do some work on this, and what we say is there's people that typically talk about a problem. There's people that find a problem there, people that will think about a problem. There are people that would do things about a problem, and in my role I want to make. And each of these are strength. Some people can do both. But in in my role, I think about even the people that I have. A guy named John he has in the past has a past of working on suicide hotlines. You think man can listen. He's the most empathetic listener and he can. He came here. You have other ones that can find problems, and they're just very creative in ways of addressing problems in ways that I might not think of. I'm typically the do er. I love to get things done, finding people that can do everything in those what I found for my team is that it has made us more have a greater group together. Hey, don't have somebody. And so that's what I think too of this is you have people that might be better with a certain client, comparative to another, and it allows you to as a later or even even at home. It allows you to deploy strength of your people like one of my kids. Literally. Today we were me and Bonnie. We were working on assessment that we were doing, and I'm like, I feel like I'm overthinking this. I brought my nine year old in here and I said, Hey, does this makes it?
[00:31:13] spk_0: Oh, my goodness.
[00:31:15] spk_1: And he's like, I don't know. I was like, Okay, what is Mommy saying? And he put it back like, Oh, this is reason. I love you like any time I'm overthinking things. I send it to him for him to simplify because he's a thinker, right? Knows how to say it, even at nine.
[00:31:31] spk_0: My goodness, that's such a great Yeah, that's a great story.
[00:31:34] spk_1: We able to do the work that is needed. So those are the things like, it doesn't have to just be at work. It can also be at home that that you can infuse the two.
[00:31:43] spk_0: Yeah, absolutely. The It's funny that reminded me of, ah, person that was on my team, who was loved to use, like, five syllable words, right? And my eyes would glass over and, you know, you take a deep breath and then he would just spew out thes ridiculous words. And I said, Dude, you need to speak like I'm in third grade right on that. If I can understand that as a third grader, then the prospects and clients will be able to understand you. But you're not bright by using huge words, right? Five syllable words does not make you smarter. It's just it tells me you looked up something that that Zo it's not anyway. But you're it's proof, right? That your nine year old can help you is just Ah, it's beautiful.
[00:32:39] spk_1: Well, thank you. I think that's a part going back to that band. Too. Nice or too kind. I hear people like what a lot of times, whenever I say my kids are a lot of my editors because for me, I want it to make it where people can understand it instead of I can give you huge words. I'm I'm a nerd for
[00:33:01] spk_0: nerd, for dollars. I heard, right?
[00:33:03] spk_1: Yes, I'm a nerd from now for anything people, places and things I can nerd out with you and how they work. And I can go deep in theory from a PhD level, um, to all the way. But the thing is, is why? Why, whenever you could make it simple? Somebody told me this the other day, and it was, um, Winston Churchill. And what he said is that it's lawful to use too many words in essence. And he was talking about how people would give him tons of work. And he's like, just narrow it down and give me Give me one thing that helps me understand, like an executive, uh, overview of it. Right? And that's the thing that I feel like There's a lot of times we can talk and talk and talk. But what if we could just narrow it down? Keep it simple. The kiss method method. Keep it simple, silly, like, let's just do that. And for me, my strength, I found my genius is my time. One that can interpret my huge words and make it where it's like. Okay, Okay. So I And here's the interesting thing to that I think is cool. What you talked about is did you find where your like? Whenever you saw somebody with a strength, did you ever pair them up like a somebody that
[00:34:20] spk_0: Oh, my God, Yes,
[00:34:22] spk_1: And seeing how they grow.
[00:34:24] spk_0: Oh, my goodness. And it's so funny because sales is such a a lone wolf mentality, right? I mean, so you know, the top performers air typically lone wolves frequently. They're not collaborators in general. But you know, when you bring on a new person and you ask the lone Wolf to show the new person the ropes, you know they don't want to do it right, because it's like, Look, they're messing with me. I don't have time for this. I'm a top producer. But if you say look, whatever they find you get toe work and make some money, then it's like, Oh, okay, so I basically have a prospector or someone that's gonna help me do errands and get rid of the stuff I don't wanna dio. And yes, I'll be happy to help that person so I had to find what? Why a lone wolf would wanna work with others. But then the benefit of that is a newer person gets, ah, lot of experience pretty quickly, eh? So, yeah, I loved it And, you know, just walking in, not coming from sales leadership and just saying, Well, I'm hiring people. They don't know what the heck they're doing. I got these people that do know what the heck they're doing. Maybe I could put them together. I don't know anyone thought of this, but you know, the criticism I got right. So I remember, uh, someone saying, Well, you know, Harry's got this thing going where he's got people pairing up together. So now you've got two people doing the work of one person. So we're paying to people do the work of one, right? So I said, Well, get over it, right, well, and let's just say the one person who was doing half the job or a third of the job wouldn't be doing any of the job. If he wasn't where she wasn't with someone with the experience, they would be discouraged. They go to the mall, they go to a movie. You know, these are all the stories of sales people that just go to the Starbucks and hang out all day and get on Facebook because they don't You know, they don't have what they need, which is, ah, story to tell. Confidence, you know, wins and then get all that by working with tenured people. So that's Yeah, I'm a huge believer, not. Sounds like you are, too.
[00:36:47] spk_1: Yes. Yes, I am. I think it's very important. Especially especially in the first two years in the growth phase of anybody doing anything. So so to bring it all back around, Um, that possible list. We're gonna try. You have the skills, bring the nine year
[00:37:06] spk_0: old in. I want to hear what
[00:37:08] spk_1: he would say. No. Right. So for people that are apologizing for being too nice, what would you tell them?
[00:37:20] spk_0: Yeah, so I'd get into it a little bit with them and say, as long as you are kind, as long as you know, win to be, you know, to put an end. If someone was taking advantage of you as long as you know that line and you can put it to a stop, then people are just going to love you for being kind, right? And it's okay. And you can be successful. You can be a winner. You can be a top dog. Um, but you gotta You can't be a person that just gets walked over. You gotta have spine. And, uh, yeah, I'm here in your corner. If you need me, I'll be happy to give you some tips on it. But, yeah, it's what I lived through. And, uh, I love it, right. It's helping others. And being competitive don't have to be a contradiction.
[00:38:15] spk_1: Yes. And I think it's the one thing that I I love. It's a breath of fresh air. It's like you get such negativity as is toe walk in to see somebody just be nice and kind and to care. Wow. So I appreciate you for that, Harry. And for anybody is listening to this and wants to reach out to you. Where can they find you?
[00:38:38] spk_0: Well, the best thing is, um, on Lincoln s o Harry spate, um, and then also our Facebook group with my co host of lead cell growth. So we have a lead sell grow facebook group, Um, and you'll find fellow sales people. We try to give valuable guidance there. My co host, Eric Kind of Olive. So that is probably the best place. And this has been a real blast. Emily, you're awesome. I love your stories. Uh, you know, they there's a point where I actually got a chill about the person One on the suicide line. E mean, that's to me is, you know, you're a godsend if you could do that type of work. And if you know, I don't know anyone that does that right. You know, someone that does that to me, it's like hats off to those people because the world needs them, right?
[00:39:28] spk_1: Amen to that. And And that person specifically John. He is a God sent like ability to live and how much I could grow from like we're speaking a little bit from his tenure in his learning and his lessons in that. And how much does grown me as a human. So it's been just like this conversation has been such a blessing. Thank you so much. And thank you for all that will listen and have an awesome and blessed day. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of unapologetically bold I'm not sorry for if this to shoot anyway, please, like and subscribe and share with your friends as we continue the message of being unapologetically bold, Bobby and hot humans who are humble, open and transparent. See you next time.