Cassandra Dillon, MS, CESCO, SHEP, CSSM, COSS
Safety Consultant with Sheldon Primus
Cassandra Dillon, MS, CESCO, SHEP, CSSM, COSS
January 11, 2021
In this episode, Sheldon speaks with Cassandra Dillon on a variety of issues from her safety career, fighting for wage and race equality in safety and society. Cassandra is an instructor for the Certified Occupational Safety Specialist Program and a adjunct professor. Additionally, she is a minister. She says that she will save your life or save your soul.
Keywords: Cassandra Dillon, Sheldon Primus, Safety Consultant, Safety, EHS, Environmental, Safety and Health, Scott Geller, Dillon on the Real, Ministry, Incarceration, Sexual Assult, Violence in the workplace, OSHA, OSHA Compliance, Fed Ex, Shipping, Construction

[00:00:04] spk_1: this episode is powered by Safety FM. In

[00:00:10] spk_0: this week's episode, I speak with Cassandra Dylan. She is an instructor with the certified Occupational Safety Specialist program, which I am. One is well, so we are two of a kind in that way. Cassandra is also a person who is a consultant as well. She's a principal consultant. For the last past five years, she spent an adjunct instructor and is currently imagine adjunct instructor for a couple of organizations. And she has worked with National Safety Council, University of Texas Arlington. And truly, she has been one of those people that has such amazing, amazing amount of time that she gives and devotes to helping people and their causes. She is, ah, student of Scott Giller, and truly she is one of those safety minds that thinks of compliance culture and then also the person themselves behind the safety, just so that it is a holistic view. And that's probably because she's a minister, a swell. So she has quite a bit of a diverse background. We talk a little bit about everything, how she got into the business. We talked a little bit about just her safety journey Ah, little bit about her own story about not getting paid like she should as faras gender equality, equality for payment. So we talked about that way, has really good strong conversation regarding what it is like to look at safety as, ah, whole holistically. So if you have a person who believes that they are being picked on due to gender due to raise due to, uh, whatever gender they want, identify as then truly, that could lead to bullying and in some cases, and she has helped one of her. Her missions out there is She does talk to individual women who had been sexually assaulted as safety professionals and helping them get past those events and just, you know, picking up the pieces. So we have tough talk about a few things, including equality with race and seeing how all that ties into safety and health. So if you're a consultant and you're going to be consulting organizations, you go in there, you have to really look at what the organization is doing. You have to give a nice, uh, concise overview of the organization in a form of a summary. It's really good if you understand all the different leading factors that's gonna help you leave a client to thistles. My recommendation for you for building your culture or something similar to that. So we just go through a whole bunch of thought processes related to that. It's a longer interview, so I'm not gonna do a tip of the week after this one. So it's just gonna be me and Cassandra And then after you're gonna hear the music that's gonna let you guys out, let you know I'm done. So go.

[00:03:30] spk_1: Hello. Hello. I am Cassandra Dylan, better known as Dylan on the rial. I am an industrial safety engineer. I am an instructor in a lot of different areas. Also a college professor. I'm a transformational life coach. I'm a minister, You know, there's so many different things that I do. There isn't one title that really kind of capitalists, who I am. But I will say that I'm all things safe. So, you know, I'm just gonna tell you up front,

[00:04:02] spk_0: but

[00:04:02] spk_1: I would need to save your physical life, or I will save your soul. And a lot of times I'm saving your life and your soul at the same time. hallelujah.

[00:04:10] spk_0: A tooth for

[00:04:12] spk_1: a tooth for one, That's why. But people say ultimately, I keep people safe.

[00:04:19] spk_0: Alright, What started your safety journey? Because your safety journey is not like everyone else's. You've got some influencers in your life that all of us would hope we had these verses in our life. But this doesn't happen. So tell us about your safety journey.

[00:04:35] spk_1: You know, for me and my safety journey, it was very deliberate. Um, I was in college, and I remember, uh, industrial Engineering. I started off its electric engineering major. That was too boring, because I'm like, I want to see people. I wanna be alive. I want to see what they're doing. And they're like, You got personality. You should probably check the i e. Program or something. So I said, Okay. Okay, I'm gonna do I'm gonna do industrial engineering. And so I went over 10 just engineering and loved it, okay, because it most engineers are kind of boring and plain and whatever. I was like Y'all you know, I saw I'm always It's funny because I'm an introvert. And so I cooked come into the room and I'm like, I'm here and I'm like, What about You are introvert? I am I am Because I'm an introvert. Because I give my energy from spending time alone but pervert with extroverted features, right? And so, yes. So my personality was really good in the industrial Jane prevent. And so my my professor, Dr Okazaki, he was my safety instructor, and he did safety. And I think the second class I was like, Yes, this is it. And I did. Now you credited, you know, I've got L s u I'm the only woman in the class. I'm the only African American in the class, and I'm screaming. Yes, this is it. Okay. So people were kind of like What? What happened, right? What? What you're talking about. So then I told my professor was like, I've got to do safety. I'm do say for the rest of my life, you know? You know, it's like, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do this. And they I I don't wanna do anything else but safety, right? Yeah. And so I knew. So I was like, I don't know, uh, 2021 and Yep, yep. So I was 2021 At that time, I had already interned with Exxon and Shell and IBM and so

[00:06:31] spk_0: industrial in the industrial electrical side or in the safety and health side,

[00:06:37] spk_1: um, more so, process, process, process and safety conscious order. Kind of like mixed together because, you know, coming from New Orleans, you know, I'm just oilfield bread, you know, because, you know, with all the refineries, everybody, everybody had an uncle or aiding them or somebody that works at the plant. So I was like, we're gonna plant. But I was like, I don't wanna work in a plant because at an early age, I knew the plant was probably not where I necessarily want to be all the time because I was that person, you know, even as a youngster. And I didn't even understand toxicology and industrial hygiene and all that stuff. I just knew that the air sometimes it just didn't make me feel good. And it was just like, I'm gonna figure out what that is, but I don't think I want to be in a place every day, right. And so you know, by the time I got Thio, that senior junior senior year of college I was like, I'm gonna be going to safety. And then So I was like, I looked around, and so my first actual safety job was a junior safety engineering. NASA is Tennessee. Mississippi?

[00:07:38] spk_0: Is that the one on the border? Yeah. Okay. Louisiana. Yep.

[00:07:46] spk_1: And so what I did was I took my classes. I schedule my classes. What? I could either depend on semester, I would go to status. I would go to NASA in the morning and then come back and take my classes in afternoon. Or I would take my classes in the morning, and then I would go to send this afternoon, and so I would like, drive to work, go to the, you know, NASA, get back to my car and drive back to that much was

[00:08:09] spk_0: two hours.

[00:08:10] spk_1: It waas. But I was like, go to school. But you have to understand my dad, his profession, he you know, he was a mechanic and he worked for UPS. And so I get a lot of my personality from him. And when I was a teenager, my dad actually started trucking company. So I tell people now I have I have cousins, Dylan, trucking you look, y'all, If you'll see Dylan trucking on the road, it's my It's my people. And so I was always used to driving, you know, like when I was 19, I would say I'm gonna go to Atlanta and I would get my little Toyota Corolla en route to Atlanta. I would drive straight and I stopped. And I was like, Oh, Elena. And I'm like, How did you get here? Drove eso for me. That NASA thing wasn't ah, hard thing. But I was grateful that I did that because when I got out of school, I went looking for a safety job. I'm ready. I got experience because by the time I graduated from, uh, College, I already had, like, 2.5 3 years of experience as an engineer is a safety person and all that stuff month up together. But I couldn't find a job on, and I was like, Wait a minute, I don't understand. But I found the job is an industrial engineer. I couldn't find a safety job, but I found a nice job, and so I was like, You know what? The engineers and the safety people that work together anyway, So I'm just getting a company and I go in as an engineer, and then I'll cross. I'll tiptoe over to the safety people. So that

[00:09:42] spk_0: was uh huh.

[00:09:44] spk_1: And that's it. That's kind of really how it started. So then, you know, as network, it did. Well, yes and no, it did s o let me tell you this. So I started off. You know, I was working for the trucking company because I love trucking, right? And my dad, you know, he worked for UPS, so I want to work for ups. But my dad was still working at that time, and, you know, you know, ups has that policy where you can't have relatives working together and in fact, act. He had gotten to the point where none of none of his kinfolk could work for ups until he had been retired for, like, five or 10 years or something like that s Oh, my, My brother Jason. He ended up, you know, hooking up on that because he just celebrated his 15th year at UPS this year. E was like, so mad at him because I was supposed to be me. That was you. So I started working for FedEx, you know? So I work for the trucking company then and and and see, And I told people. And this is why, especially for a safety person, you need to have multiple streams of income. Absolutely. Because let me tell you, I got out of college. I think between the time I graduate from college and maybe my first three years, five years, I had been laid off twice E mean, like, laid off like I'm, like, 30. Yet I'm being laid off from a job and I'm like, You know what? I need multiple streams of income. And so I really start saying, Okay, so, you know, it s so people have already always called me the Jamaican woman. But in my after I got laid off that second time, I said, Oh, this is never happening to me again. I will never depend on one employer for for just everything that I need, right? And so that one thing is the thing that gave me the ability to start teaching to start consulting, to start doing all these other different things because I didn't want to be holding to just one person, right And so when I went to FedEx, I want to FedEx saying, Look, I need to work with my master's degree because I figured out really quick when I finished college one. Okay, so I don't want to really say how old I am, but I'm just gonna say this When when I got out of college, people didn't drive SUVs, women didn't drop issues, okay? And so for me, I had on my storm my apartment. I had Ford Explorer or Eddie Bauer ditches. Yes, My Eddie Bauer was my dream. I said, Girl, when you graduate, you're gonna get your Eddie Bauer or Explore. And I thought I was doing a darn thing. Okay, so that was my riel first real car out of college. And I got such lack because one women didn't drive SUVs. And then to who did I think I was to go driving SUV because back then, SUV me, you were kind of acidity. You were kind of like high dollar. You were kind of like rolling, you know, you were rolling, you know, at that explorer was probably equivalent to like one of those Dooley's two fifties double whatever. You know, like the King Ranch, and they have had the horde explore any of our people. What do you think you are? I was like, Wait a minute. You have a truck. You know, your truck is about what my for export costs. And that was a whole another conversation. But, you know, it was really interesting how I was like, this is something I want to reward myself with. But I figured out really quick that the equity for a man in the equity for a woman just wasn't there. And I'm like, this is in one sense, Okay, So and, you know, hopefully there's no HR people.

[00:13:31] spk_0: That's right. I'm kicking HR out right now. HR company, you can just go ahead and shut down your computer right now. Take a look

[00:13:41] spk_1: if your HR person I apologize, but I really I would have is our people come to me. And, you know, I learned really quick that I had to advocate for how much I needed to get paid, because because people were not just saying we're gonna pay you fairly. You know, when people talk about women to get paid, you know, seven cents on 73 cents on the dollar they do. That's for really people not making that up. I mean, it's for Riel, and I refer being told by HR people and by people in my early career. Well, Cassandra, we can't pay you what we pay the men because you're you're not married and you don't have any kids. And it just wouldn't be fair for you to get all that money. And they have kids to take care of. And there and there have private school take care of it. They gotta buy cars and got your retirement. And it's just you, you know, you should just be happy with what you're making. And I was like, The devil is a lot. Uh, no, not today. If I'm doing the work that the men doing, I'm getting paid the money that the minute get. So I was breaking down glass ceilings in my twenties, okay, Figured for me to really get paid and for them not to deny me what I needed to get paid. I need to get a master's degree. And so at that time, you know, you didn't you didn't even need a bachelor's degree to be a safety person. So you left the master's program, right? And so at that time, I was the corporate industrial engineer for Continental Airlines. And I told my manager that I want you get masters and I like you don't need a masters. I said, Well, I don't Well, I mean, I needed for you today, but I'm a needed when I get old Only when I s o I believe that if you fail the play and you're playing to fail So I was like, a future. I'm young, I'm vibrant, Got energy. I need to go work on some degrees before I get tired. And he's like, You don't need it. And so I ended up going Thio nsb, meeting a National Society of Black Engineers. Ah, conference and that conference. I was actually working for the company to help recruit people to get into the company. And I remember I went by the cadet's and they have this really cute purple Cuzzi and it was like on that you could put a pop soul drake cold drink wherever you from. Whatever you call

[00:16:11] spk_0: it way. Don't call it

[00:16:13] spk_1: pop. But see, I want to tell the shoes so anything that's purple. Anything that's bold. My eyes I get, like, umbrellas in my eyes. I'm like, Oh, I've gotta have it right. And so the thing about it is, they said we'll give it to you if you give us a present, mate, I'm like, I didn't come here for no resume. I had one resume. I bought one resume and I went back to my hotel room and I got that one resume. I said here. Can I have a couple? Lucy? Now, do you put that conference was like on the Thursday By Tuesday I had offer. I have four different offers within FedEx. They said They said, Wherever you wanna go, whatever you do will support it. Do you wanna work in ground? Do you wanna work in air? You know, do you wanna work in the hub? Like like and I was like, what? And they said, Well, what is it that you would like to do? I said Okay, so this is what I want to do. I said, I want to work so that I can go to school and work on my masters on and all that, and that's and I looked at it and I looked at the United States at this time for the master's program. There were only seven, uh, colleges in the United States that offered masters and safety. And so I looked in there. I was like, I ain't going to Oklahoma e Lucky s o The only place that I really saw that I could go because I had some family. There was Minnesota. Now I knew Minnesota was a bad idea, because coming from New Orleans, I mean, if it's more than 65 degrees, I'm freezing like I'm so cold. So me to go somewhere where there was 2030 degrees below was like insane. But that's what I said. You know what? If you want me that bad, I want a job in Minnesota and I wanna work on my master's program. And if you say yes to that, then I'll come to to Iceland. Okay, Minnesota. Okay, fine. What do you want to start? I was like e a s. So that's how I got started to safety because I started the master's program and the FedEx pay for it. And so FedEx, you know, they were really supposed to I'm supposed to graduate And then once I graduate, they were supposed to move me into the safety program. And do you know, I graduated and I went to the VP and I said, I'm ready for my safety job and they said, Oh, no, um, engineers. You make him way more than safety people. So the HR person was like, You can't move because you won't be satisfied. I was like, Are you kidding? I have been working on this freaking degree for the last three years. I have. I mean, you know, in last week I taught a class and I told them that you have to really know what it is that you want and work for it because, I mean, this is a true story because anybody who knows me from back then they will tell you that this is a true story. I started working for FedEx in July. I started working on my master's program in August. Okay. And soda, I had I lived in. I lived in minute I live, right? Not too far from, you know, downtown. Like Minneapolis. Actually. Actually, I lived a mouth from the Mall of America. That was where I live. E And so I lived there, and I had, like, eight states I had, like Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Uh, and then all the Dakotas, South north, South Dakota. Yeah. So I had, like, 50 like stations that I was over. And I'm just, like, probably at that time, maybe mid twenties, thirties, like amount over, right? Like I'm over those places. Illinois. And so I had to travel a tat time. We had a special FedEx project because, like, you know how they have, like, the first overnight and FedEx same day. I I was one of the engineers that tested it out back in the day before it came out. Uh huh. And I'll see little things you don't know, right? Yeah. And so and so when we did the time studies and stuff, we did a special project in Chicago, and so I had to be in Chicago for six months, and I said, You know what? If I got to be in Chicago, I need an apartment, and then I need this man. I end up getting the apartment. I did a cost benefit analysis as like the 20 something year old. I did a cost benefit analysis and how it would be cheaper for them to give me a apartment than for Meteo Thio. Do the TNT Back and forth. I ended up with an apartment downtown at the water tower. Okay, with With With With With With a butler at the bottom. And then a limo driver picked me up from the airport, back and forth so I could go work. Awesome. That

[00:21:06] spk_0: is one heck of a cost analysis.

[00:21:09] spk_1: Yes, but it still was cheaper. It was still cheaper because what I would do is I would go to

[00:21:13] spk_0: work,

[00:21:14] spk_1: and then I would drive from Minneapolis. I'm a graduate of the University of Wisconsin Stout Menominee, UW stout.

[00:21:25] spk_0: Is that like a Cornhusker Corn Something. What? What is that? What?

[00:21:29] spk_1: Not like that, but okay, but this is the thing. I literally drove from Minneapolis to my nominee. That was probably like in miles. It probably show it took about an hour and 15, but it was snowing, so it took me three hours. It took me three hours. Thio work to drive to Wisconsin, Going to class for three hours. Incl drive three hours back back to Minnesota. Drive into the airport. Get on a FedEx plane ride. The pilots get on with the pilots, fly into Chicago, have somebody pick me up at the airport, Bring me to my apartment. And then I showed up at work at 8. 30. I just for three years. Three

[00:22:10] spk_0: years? You're doing that?

[00:22:12] spk_1: Yes. So when people tell me safety is too hard and I don't have time and I can't do it, I'm like, you don't want to do it because understand things that you want, you will make the time Thio. And it was painful And was I tired? I waas But I knew that I wanted to do safety. And I knew that the day would come that it would be mandatory toe have a mask. See a lot of people out or stressed out because they're trying to go back to school and they're getting there s p s and R C S, P s and all that type of stuff. I was like, Look, by time that comes, I'm retired. Anyway, um, let me just do a lot of that right now, so I don't have to do that later on. And so you know, I'm telling young safety professionals why you have jobs. They're paying for tuition reimbursement. They're doing all that stuff. Do that stuff now because one of the most underutilized benefit is tuition reimbursement. And so, and usually for safety professionals, you could get reimbursement from your HR because you just have it for your benefits of your job. But you can get it from your job, your manager, because you need it for your safety use or different kits and certifications and stuff. So if you want Thio, you could double dip. So for every company I have worked for, I double E double dip from the safety side I needed for my job. But I double dip from from HR because I had to agree. Yes, E you have 12 different things behind your name. I said. I shall dio

[00:23:38] spk_0: and you got the well, you didn't do the CSP route. It doesn't look like but you did the the the environmental resource route because that's really what your background was, right?

[00:23:50] spk_1: It waas it waas And for me, environmental was really easy because since I'm an engineer, I always got stuck doing all the air permits and all the waste and all the other type stuff. So for years, I taught environmental classes as well as a safety classes as faras the air quality classes and, you know, five and federal permits and stuff like that. And what I found is that that really helped me get to right now because I am really into kind of like restorative justice and making sure that people understand what's around them. I do A with community emergency response. Um, l a p c chair for the county. You know that type of stuff? Because I find that people live in communities and they don't even know what the hazards are at their house. Right? And so I have this one class I used to teach and I would show the picture of a house. And then I would say you're talking about all the hazards at your job and in the street. But I used to make people scared to go home. I mean, I said these were the 12 hazards at your house right now That's going to help. Yeah, I hate you. I just hate you, e. Just I don't like you. So I told people if you take one of my classes being prepared for your energy levels for your awareness to shift because there's no meet me and come back out on the other side, thinking to say what you think

[00:25:13] spk_0: Today I'm from the wastewater treatment side and I used Thio being incident commander and one of the past things I did is I worked with the EPA with a special team and we created what's called all hazard boot camp for water and wastewater. And this was years and years ago. So we all got together. We helped the EPA figure this stuff out, and we created the There's even all hazard boot camp that you could take online too. So I was part of that and they interviewed me, and I'm even in there, too. But this is, you know, back when I didn't shave my head, you know, when I was still rocking the here. But but truly, it was the environmental side that people can work around safety with the E. H and S title, and the E is to them as foreign as anything you told him about circa wreck row or even Superfund sites. Or unless they're process safety. If their process safety thin. You know, they they know that stuff in PSM process safety, your risk management plan if you're under EPA. But other than that, you know, they don't They don't know that stuff,

[00:26:20] spk_1: right? Right. But, you know, one of the things I'm very fortunate for is that I took a route because when FedEx would not allow me to be a safety person, e gotta quit and oh, my God, That was, like my dream job. I mean, I love that it's I still love physics. Okay, I look FedEx but I wanted to be a safety person, and and literally, I quit. And then, like, 60 days later, the guy calls me and says, Okay, I have a job like I didn't work for you anymore. You don't know that. Like, i e. I want a job and safety. If I don't get a job and safety, I'm going to go somewhere else. But I can't just like that. And so I'm getting into the hazardous waste and working for the companies that did landfills and things like that. And so, you know, and that was rewarding because, uh, it gave me the ability to see the environmental piece of it and then also the companies that I worked for. After that, they were kind of like mid sized companies and then, you know, talk about small business. A small business could technically be anything under a billion dollars, depending on what industry you're in on DSO work for. Kind of like a small air quote business. But when I worked those types of jobs, I got to do environmental. I got to do safety. I got to do quality. I got to do security, and so able to do all of that stuff, you know, department, homeland security stuff on the Serra list. You know, all of this stuff, you know, to see fat and people like, What are you talking about? I was like, Look, when you work for us, submitted meat size company, you know, small, mid size. You got to be jack of all trades. Uh, but the problem with it So waas I was having such a good time that I looked around and I was like, I still wasn't getting paid with the men were getting paid, and I remember I was at this one job and I just was like I was just very tormented because guys, y'all talked too much. Y'all don't need to tell people how much you all making Okay, because do that. What you making everybody else is making because they would be talking and complaining about all this money that they were making, and I would wouldn't say anything going. I don't get paid, but they get paid. And like either I advocate for myself or I asked somebody do it for me And most times if I didn't ask for them to do it for me, they said, Well, you should just be grateful for what you what? You what you're getting. You know, people don't make this kind of money and you're you're just sound ungrateful. I'm like, I'm not ungrateful. I just want to be paid equally. We don't work, you know? And I remember I went to my manager and I said, Look, I love my job. I love you here, but I just need e need my conversation to come up and and and then I said, You know what? I need to make X amount more in the mouth that I asked for wasn't even enough. Thio equal me to what the guys were making. It wasn't even equal. It was just more. And he was like, No, I can't do that. I'm sorry. And I said, Okay, fine. I literally I left that meeting. I had already typed up my resignation. Leather. I gave my reservation. I said Okay. I'll be going two weeks on. He said, What do you mean? I said, I don't think you understood. I didn't stutter when I said I need more money. I need more money. There wasn't a negotiation. It wasn't me. Begging me was me telling you that in order for me to stay, you don't have to pay me what I worked. And I think for a lot of safety people, we don't know what it is that that will work, right. And so, Cassandra, you can't quit. You do the work off four men, you can't quit.

[00:29:56] spk_0: You just want to get paid by one. The ones get

[00:30:00] spk_1: I said, Hey, me like one man and I'll stay. They said no, we can't do that. And so I left. And they didn't believe that I left. But you know what? When I left, they posted three full time positions for one by one position.

[00:30:16] spk_0: Yeah. My my old employer with the state of Florida did the same thing. When I when I left, I found out that they replaced me with four people. Uh, they split one of a task up between two managers and then they hired to others. Thio take it. E told you,

[00:30:36] spk_1: e But when I saw that, that was some and that encouraged me that I was confident, right? Because had I looked at what I saw and had I looked at how much I was getting paid and how it was being treated, I could have clearly said, Well, you know what? You must not know anything. You know you must not. But evidently I did e

[00:30:59] spk_0: And now they are. At least then then they found out real quick how much

[00:31:04] spk_1: it did because I end up seeing one of my fellow employees, um, co heart colleagues. I think that like a Walmart or McDonald's parking lot six or seven months later, and he was like, Oh my God, they miss you every day He said, We have gotten so many fines since you left because, well, didn't really realize the depth of what you were doing. And then when you left, nobody did them. And then some in and they start killing those onions and they found all the stuff that was undone. But the thing about but CBC and I just kind of chuckled because I look see, I was so confident that on my last day they just let me turn in my computer, leave my desk and and like, locked myself out the door. Nobody likes nobody locked. Nobody walked me out. Nobody did The exit interview. Nobody said, What are you working on? They just was like Okay, well, glad to have you work here. And they went home My last day of employment, my co workers went home at 4. 35 o'clock and I stayed typing up stuff until, like, eight o'clock at night on my last day of employment. And no one thought to ask me what I was working on.

[00:32:12] spk_0: A well, fast forward and tell me how you got Thio Thio, Krista and Scott Geller.

[00:32:22] spk_1: Oh, my goodness. You know I love Okay, So probably this 2020. Probably like 2015. I started to say there has to be more about safety. There has to be mawr than doing stuff lists and and just report right on. And this is where really, Cassandra, the minister and Cassandra, the safety engineer, kind of merged because I said, You know what? I really want to care for my people. I really want to show them that I care. But, you know, being a female safety person, you know, you get the kind of, Well, you just you know, that's just a girly girl thing. Or that's just, you know, that's the mother in you. I'm like, No, I e no kids. So they know mother here. There's no mother in here to come out, okay? There's no mother in coming out. I just want to care for my people better, right? E got onto the actually caring, uh, you know, for people, you know, I just kind of, you know, I just heard it, you know, because, like, the psychology of safety have always been a student of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and those types of things and in the ministry, You know, one of things we teach people is that we can't teach and preach to people If we have not met their needs right each and preached people safety at our jobs unless we met their needs and we actually show them that they care. And so one of those, my favorite Maya Angelou quotes, was, Of course, people may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel right. And so, you know, it was just one of those things is, you know, in the circles that I run in, I would see him from time to time, and I just one day I would just I would just went up to them and I was like, Look, e need. And this is what I need and who is this is who I am and and we've just been, like, have been just very helpful to me. All the side Alyssa's. Well, then what

[00:34:26] spk_0: they're in Dallas is Well,

[00:34:27] spk_1: Oh, no, no, no. Scott Yeller, actually a professor at Virginia Tech. Yeah, Virginia Tech. And I think he's been there 30 40 years. Some crazy. Uh, but, you know, if you if you just do Scott Yeller and you go to Amazon, I mean, do you think I think this time he's writing over between 32 44 books. But he's like, edited all these chapters and all of those other things. And, you know, he does that now. He has, like, actively carrying and policing, actively carrying in schooling, actively carrying, you know. So, like all of those actively caring and then also the bracelets because I think, you know, I wish, people, we're just a little kinder to people, you know, because this is the only time of year, Really. People are nice, is during the holidays, and then we become meet again in January, the first and and so I right, so, in the reason why I say that is because in 2015, you know, I usually speak it. Maybe three or four conferences a year, like professionally like that. That was like a stretch goal for me. You will speak. You will. You will publish an article. You will do a present. I mean, that's my That's what I do for myself. Nobody tells me what made me do that. And so 15. I said, You know what? I'm going to talk about caring for people, right? And so one of my first presentations, I did about caring for people was about your full Robert program. He has that book. Everything I ever needed to know. I learned in kindergarten.

[00:35:57] spk_0: Haven't heard that one.

[00:35:59] spk_1: Yes. Yes, yes. So what I did was I used the top 10 things that we should have learned in kindergarten. And then I transposed it to what that means for safety. Nice. Yes. Everybody was like Holloway like, Oh, my goodness, This is so innovative, you know, because you know, like like when you walk across the street, hold each other, hold each other's hand on I said, And safety, we hold each other's hands with coaching and mentoring. You know, like and you know, like you do this to the safety committee, right? Uh, you know, don't don't don't hit anybody. We hit people when we, you know, treat people punitively because they get blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they were like before Well, of course, she hadn't heard before because I just made it up. And so, you know, I did that presentation, and it was it was really nice. And then I did another presentation where I talked about just just caring for people and you know I was like, I am going to get laughed out of this because I did it. It was like one of the NSC conferences, and I remember I looked out and there was like, 300. It had to be at least 100 to 200 people in the audience. I saw, like, maybe four women. And it was just all men E. And I wanted to cry or I want to cry, because when I tell people when I do these presentations always got these butterflies, I'm scared. They're scared. They don't know what. They really don't know what's about to come out my mouth like, What is she about to say? Because you get when I go into a classroom, I get people who want to leave because they said, you can't teach me anything because nobody like you was in the field. I said, Watch this. I got up there and I did that presentation and these guys came to me and they said, Can you teach me how to care? Uh huh. It's stuff, really, how I started kind of getting linked up to them because I was like, Let me give people resource is where they could actively care for people, and they can see that it's research based. It's not fuzzy wuzzy. It's not because I'm a woman. You know what I'm saying, e,

[00:38:16] spk_0: Are you ready for safety? Consulting TV? Ready or not, it's on its way January 2021. You'll have your very own video on demand service that's gonna help you with becoming a safety consultant. This will be available on iPad. IPhone well, TV Android, Android TV Row coup, Amazon Fire Fire TV And this will give you the information that you need to become a safety consultant and re sources such as templates and power point decks and other things that you could download that will be tangibly good for you to use that day for your clients. Visit safety consultant dot TV safety consultant that TV

[00:39:08] spk_1: for more information principle that if you treat people well, they will respond to you will and then to you get higher statistics and things and earnings on you know, the dollars return on investment and all that other stuff. So it's just not about who I care for you but, you know, especially in the pandemic, you know you were. How much companies really care for people? Because I tell people all the time If somebody really cares for you, like, really, really, like, really, really cares for you. You'll do things for them that you're gonna do for nobody else.

[00:39:43] spk_0: Yeah. Do you consider yourself e? No. Scott Geller would be more of the behavior based safety behavioralist model because that's that's his, You know, his doctorate. Uh, are you Are you on that side of being a behavioral wrist or UME or on the side of the human and organization performance?

[00:40:01] spk_1: I'm kind of in the middle.

[00:40:02] spk_0: Me too.

[00:40:04] spk_1: I'm in the middle because what I did my masters pieces, it was kind of like on behavior based safety kind of on that. And and the thing about it is, it was interesting because, um, even now, sometimes people come to me and say, Hey, you know this company or this client needs behavioral based safety. Do you know what I think about it? And I just bust out laughing. I'm like, Yeah, but my master's program, they were like, Well, you know, this probably is not gonna go really far because nobody nobody is really believing in this behavior based safety type stuff, right? And so the human organizational piece of it I get because I'm in industrial engineer and so on in the beginning in the middle is where I am because on the on the behavior side, why do people do what they do? The ministry side, you know, the why people why, you know, that's why five different times and even for me recalls analysis that whole. Why thing? I do it all the time because because if you if you understand what a person's why is then you understand what they do, what they do right. But then on on the engineering side of my brain, I'm like, Okay, so what's the process with the procedure? How do we do this? How do we mimic it? You know, how do we make it keep going? You know all of that. So I'm in the middle, and so it depends on the company. It depends on the model. It depends on the people. It depends on the return of investment, you know, you know, it depends on where the focus is as faras, which side I teeter on, or instruction or consulting or training or whatever.

[00:41:35] spk_0: Yeah, I believe that there is a point in the person's action that that is one of the things we're seeing. But everything that led up to it is usually what you end up when you're doing a true accident investigation and you're getting that snapshot of, you know, this person make this decision at this time for this reason. And that is where I think I always end up blending hop and behavioral based safety, you know, together because the person probably shortcut id some system because the system wasn't adequately working for them. And then they got used to sort of short circuiting this system, and then the behavior kicked in, you know? So I'm thinking between the two, there's something in there that could have been mitigated on both sides, and that's the way I think about it.

[00:42:27] spk_1: Right. Okay. So let me mess you up even more. Yeah, well, okay, so one of the certifications I just got over the pandemic is I'm actually now a certified belief therapists. And so what I do is I sit down with somebody and I talked to them like, Who are you? Who you are like what systems that have been in place since you were a child. Like was your family like no jobs efficient? You know, like, what is it that you really believe and not so much just on the scripture level, because I can get on that. But why do you believe that the sky is blue? Because I'm like, or because you know it to be so you know, like, where does that come from? Because a lot of times when people don't realize, especially when within a like a work group or company, is that they don't they don't ever talk about where people come from. And then as safety, we surely don't talk about social determinants of health. We don't talk about poverty. We don't talk about health care. We don't talk about access. We don't think about any of that stuff. We just expect you to come to work, clocking and be ready to be safe. And and I'm like, that's that. That's not a holistic approach to safety because we just we don't think about them as a person and where they come from, right. And a lot of times I remember, especially in process technology I would do laugh classes and I would have students on. Guy was like, Go get the Phillips And they'd be like, Professor Dylan, What's the Phillips? What you mean, what's a Philip Head? What? The flathead I'm like, Where's your people? You did. And then I think about it to my grand parents had a dairy form. We had 200 something. We had hundreds of cows. I have 13 aunts and uncles have 81st cousins, okay? And so my ideal of things and family and education and all that stuff is different than most people. And and so one of the things I was I was talking to somebody about is the fact is, you know what? You've been experienced two in which you've been privileged to see right, because I know I'm privileged. I know that there's things that I've experienced other people who've never experienced. And so if I don't take the stand to go get to give back and go get them and bring them up, then how would they experienced some of those things? Because nobody is going to say, Hey, I think love this experience. Keep your we weren't doing that right And so when we don't, we don't bring in all of that type of stuff into the workplace. From a safety perspective, we miss a lot, right? And right now, what I'm seeing. And I just saw the e. H s adviser talked about, you know, the definition for diversity. Um, in safety. Mhm. On on the NSC side, I'm working on working with a special workgroup to define diversity and inclusion and bullying and all that type of stuff and what that looks like in a safety context, because I think we just don't talk about that a lot. We just expect people to hey, you over there, Go do that. And they just do it or they don't do it. And then we said, Okay, you didn't do whatever. It's your fault. You should be terminated. Yeah,

[00:45:47] spk_0: well, I actually I interviewed one of my my friends that I've met through, uh, the wastewater side of my life. And his name is Ari Copeland. But Ari was born Rachel Copeland and, uh, are is an engineer, and he would work for a black and fee each and during his his transformation of from female to male. Hey, got to see a whole bunch of things and the the organization. They noticed him, and they were completely aware of what was happening. And he, you know, fill them in, and they were very inclusive to him. It's going through the process. But then on the other end, he's like, Hold on. Uh, I've seen, uh, white privilege. I've seen females, how they get treated. And now, he says, is a white male. He goes, Sheldon, it is completely different from what I've seen before. And he says there is such a difference in that and the way that people are treated as when they're not in his group. If you would, he says, and you'll hear didn't he says, Now, if I'm coming up, everybody's coming up with me and I don't care who you are. We all coming up is a funny that and hey talked about something called psychological safety and and I know that's afraid that's been going around for a while. But he put it in the context of for him. In his belief system, he said that he leads a group that black and speech has particularly that is a diversity group that includes the lbgt cake. All the other letters I can't remember right now. But the community And he had mentioned that once he did his, um, he did a presentation specifically talking about what each letter of of the term means of. And then someone came up to him afterward and said, Hey, I I have never, ever, ever felt safe at work because of of where they were and in their their their belief system. So truly, and it's more than belief system to them. True, it's, you know, the person you love. Uh, and in this case, uh, they truly felt like now they felt freedom at work, and that helped them. So now that someone could relate to them at work And he said through this outreach that the company purposely wanted to do and they honestly thought, Let's get as many people into this room to plan out diversity as we can that then they're able to to really protect the workers psychologically safe. Then you're getting a better worker. Uh, because they're feeling really good about, uh, where they're working. You're also getting a more ah, worker that feels like they could share their life with a co worker or whatever. So that means they're going to get bonded together. And if they're bonded and therefore they might be e brother's keeper Sister's Keeper, Like like the presentation you did with with Christa, I believe, a few years back in the and his brother and sister keepers of they're getting that feeling. And I he actually told me about, I would say, six months ago, which was really about three months after the interview, that someone reached out to him that I heard your interview on the on the my show and, uh, and just thank, too for that. And you're truly I was thinking in that kind of sounds like what you're you're going to be in this group dealing with on all levels, because truly we see it, uh, you know, people of color, you see it as women. You see it as all kinds of ethnic and diverse groups. If you're not inthe e white male category, you won't see it as much. So how do you guys in your group? How do you way need trusted allies in the white male group? How do you get them into that diversity into thinking that.

[00:50:01] spk_1: Well, you know, I think we all need allies, is I think, you know, I think sometimes people think that they can do it on their own and that they could be all that they could be on their own. But in the season that we're in now, it's really about the collective, like each person bringing whatever they have and then putting it in the pot or as I, uh, in New Orleans, we go in the gumbo, always build lactic, a jambalaya where everybody brings what you got. And we put it in a pot and stirred up because the thing is and where we are right now, everything is so diverse. And if you don't take, um, people's viewpoints and you don't take everybody and put it all together, you you miss the richness of what you can provide to your employees or, you know, your company and whatever you just you just miss it. Because when people feel as though they're not being heard or no one sees them, remember that movie avatar? And at the end, you know, he looked up and says, I see you a safety professionals. We need to see the people that we support. We need to see the company. We need to know the missions, the values, the goal. We need to see all of that. And we need to say where my was a banner where, um I would that flagged and are waving like Like, where's where do I stay? It right? Like, what do I contribute and then, you know, stand forward. I know. I was just talking to I was mentoring my my mentee, And I told her I said, I said, You have to understand The days of my life is, um, gone where I will go down to meet people where they are, where I'm at right now. I'm high and people who could come up for where I am because I'm not diminishing my life anymore. Um, yes, I'm smart. I'm fabulous. I'm all these things. I'm very humble. But, you know, I'm not I'm not a afraid of my intellect. I'm not afraid of the things I could do to help people. Right. I'm not gonna pretend like I can't when I know I can't write the whole Marianne Williamson our greatest fear. You know what I'm saying? Eso think that is probably for me. One of the biggest things about getting older as a safety person is understanding that my dad used to say I forgot more than you'll ever know. And so now I'm at the point that I forgot more safety than people will ever know for safety. And so just continuing on in that, you know, it's just such a blessing. But then being, you know, making sure that you're reaching out to everybody, not just some people, not just, you know, because even today in 2020 I will go into a classroom. People say, Oh, I need the money back. You can't teach me anything on one the classes I did this one, the one of the last face to face classes I did in February. I actually had a student cry in my class and said, And this when she said, she says, Oh my God, had I listened to my male counterparts, I would have missed out on the growth that I had for these five days. It told me because you were a woman, that you would not be able to tell me about safety, she says. You have taught me so much, and I am so ever grateful I had to go to the bathroom involved because I was like, you know, But I remember being on professional things, you know, I did. I did a class for, like, the Army Corps of Engineers in California on Dry walked in there and they were like, Why did they send you? You won't even shame you and embarrassed you. Don't whisper off the side. I said that The classroom And they say, Why would they send you? Is this the best they could do for us? I was like, I'm screaming and hollering going. The fact that I am here means you have the best. Okay, you have the best because for me to have gotten this far, it's accomplished what I've accomplished. E have gone through a whole lot that I can teach you great. But see, people have to be open minded to diversity. They have to be open minded to a different words. They have to be open minded to hearing something that they may not be familiar with. I taught a class once and in the middle of my class. Man, I had like, 40 people in this class. This guy raises his hands and he says, I'm so sorry. The things you're talking about, I can't relate to it. They sound kind of negative. I don't believe these things to be true. I took a sip of water. Uh huh. And I tightened up my glasses for my ears, and I said, Okay, let me help you with something. The reason why these are not your experiences is because I am an African American female in safety. Okay, when people talk about pioneers and whatever, you know, I'm kind of in that little circle because there's not too many women I know. And I do know a couple that have gone before, but in a lot. Okay, I got more women by I have in front of me. Okay? And so I told I said, this is not your experience because you're a male. Um, your lenses are different. It doesn't mean that, you know, my experiences are not good experience with bad experiences, but they're my experiences right there. They're just differences. And so and I don't want to feel sorry for me. I mean, I mean, I'm happy. I'm happy that I'm able to say that I've struggled that I'm going through these experiences because I've grown right. I've grown and I can teach people so much because I've been through so much. But just because you are not your experiences, you can't invalidate my experience. And that's what I said. He was just like people in that class was like she on fire. She is on fire on. I was like I and I said, and I say this and all due respect, okay? My opinions, my visions, my values, they don't invalidate yours. Their mind, they're not yours. We all have our walking safety, right? Just, like have our walks as practitioners, The people we support, our co workers, our colleagues, you know, You know, and I tell people all the time some people go through so much just to be able to come work. Just gonna work. I mean, they're taking care of aging parents. They may have a special needs child. They may be reason a child by themselves, they may be a widow. I mean, they could they could be having heart troubles. Hey, they could have coronavirus. We don't know what's going on with people in our household, right? and so for you to discredit someone because their opinions or who they are is not in your belief system as to what it should look like. Same one

[00:57:23] spk_0: you Are you the one that's responsible for OSHA compliance at your location? Well, join me every Tuesday and Thursday 11 a.m. Eastern Standard Time for the OSHA Compliance. Help Livestream. You could be part of a live stream by contacting me at W W w Lincoln dot com Backslash skin backslash Sheldon Primates Send a connection request and you could see it there. If you like. Facebook, go to Facebook and type in safety consultant US on like that page. Whenever there's a new live stream on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you'll be notified that I am gone live. If you're a safety consultant, join the Facebook group, which is facebook dot com. Backslash groups within s backs Last safety consultant answered a few questions there, agree with our terms, and then you could watch the live streams there every Tuesday and Thursday, 11 AM Eastern Standard Time. I answer your ocean compliance. Help questions live. Yeah, and truly it's one of those for me. I I kind of see it this way. Where there's, um there's some people that they will see diversity on a certain level, meaning that you'll get diversity in the low, maybe mid level work, working force. But when you get into the management spots and executive director spots, the diversity kind of goes away from there. So truly, if they're in that mid are upper level, they don't really see it. And it's they see a whole bunch of, you know, faces in the lower level that tells them, Oh, yeah, we're diverse and it kind of seems to me that they are, um they believe that by seeing faces, regardless of what position they're in, that its diversity. So you might have a boatload of site safety managers that are out there that look diverse. But which one is going to be the executive director out of that group? And chances are it's not gonna look diverse. That's just you know what I see. I don't know if you see the same thing

[00:59:49] spk_1: Well, and actually, when you said that, I mean, just last year I was at a conference and I was moderating the conference and this lady, it was kind of I think it was a kind of a joint thing. And the lady? No, it wasn't even later when that's what I'm talking about. Ah, man got up to do his presentation, and one of his slides was he wanted people, you know? You know what? Sometimes people say about me, Well, that's a little bit about me. And then this is my company. And then he said, This is a leadership of my company. Do you know this man pulled up the leadership of my company and there was 20 white man on this lot? Yeah, and he didn't stutter, and he didn't think anything was wrong with it on. And I was in the room going e a woman. What? They Not one woman that could have spit in the midst of those 20 men, Not one woman. Wow. And you know, nobody. Nobody African American was probably in four different tiers off that organization. And and he said that for me is a professional. I didn't mean to, but I just sat down because I was like what? Wait, wait a minute. You don't see a problem, but putting a slide up of nobody. I just I was I was followed, but then I was. But this right here shows how far we have to go, because this year, with all of the stuff that's happened and all the injustices and all that other type of stuff, that stuff has bled into the workforce and is bled into safety, right? And so people are very honest. About what Diversity? What inclusion, What that looks like, what the definition is. What does that feel like? Um, you know, everybody has a voice. Everybody has a seat at the table, right? Uh, until people get more vocal about that and what that should look like And you know, the thing about it is it's OK to be uncomfortable. It's okay to say this is an uncomfortable conversation. It is okay to say, this makes me sweat bullets. It's not. It's not. What I want to talk about is very uncomfortable. The door down. Can we just be riel? And this is why I started off saying my name is Dylan on the rial podcast. I'm talking about real stuff,

[01:02:10] spk_0: and that's the truth Tonight, Um, I just recently read, Well, I've always heard ah lot of Dr King's letter in the Birmingham jail. He basically wrote a letter to, uh, talk to five ministers, including a rabbi, that we're all saying Why you in Birmingham during this time period and you guys were bringing this upheaval into our city about segregation and he had a nonviolent conversation that led to him going to jail with several other people and part of the part of his response to those clerk. And there were clergymen that were saying, You know, I can't believe what you're doing over here and all that and some of his responses to the clergyman who was just it was outrageous, a 20 page letter. So I was reading this thing again this week and truly in part of that well, he was just saying that some people are so complacent in the church of the at least in this case that he was saying is, uh, there's there didn't even they're not following the practices of God in protecting basic human rights. And then they used the law order and all that stuff to play against it. And that was one aspect and then on the other aspect that is saying is, uh with the diversity he mentioned that there was leaps and bounds of people of color and even Asian brothers, that we're getting it to political leadership. But we could consider the same counter Thio eat as someone else. And that was so riveting to me. You know, it's a segregation of time saying, Wow, there was representation for political But when it came down, Thio, you know, the one on one talk with the banter with people and then that became such a You know, that's the taboo eso now in our we spend it forward in 2020 with the upheaval. We're still dealing with a lot of things that Dr King was saying in this without segregation. But it's, I should say, formally, but just the structure itself and people now we're trying to deal with diversity. That's a form of segregation and truly its's turned in such a way that that it's being sanctioned in small, small indignities. Indignities. And I remember when I was a manager and I was in a manager level and people who were other managers in my level who were white were given vehicles to take home and company uh, cars, cards for gas and everything else and I never got it. And then when I asked about it Oh, you don't need that. It actually costs more because they have to pay for their own insurance and they didn't. But that was what I was told on. And that's the kind of things that lead to people checking out when they go toe work. And when they check out, then that means your risk goes up. And then if your risk goes up, that means you're gonna end up having yourself an injury and illness if this person or sabotage and may just go straight down to sabotage. If this thes things aren't addressed in a timely, thoughtful manner, and it's being done in in a organized way with the organization where all of a sudden you don't create things like like for instance, I'm sorry for my little rant here you

[01:06:03] spk_1: this'll is definitely where we are as a country. You're just we vocalizing and we just put on the table. I think we'll just be better for

[01:06:14] spk_0: if businesses and I'm glad the in a NFC is is have a group and my my friend Ari and Black and Beach, they actually got a think tank in a group to work on this. But if they don't include the right people in these, then you're gonna end up getting dogma That's gonna effectively hurt people even more.

[01:06:34] spk_1: Right? Right, Right, right. And the thing about being honest about it, and I think that's probably the hardest part about it's okay to be uncomfortable because we're talking about years and years of repression. We're talking about years and years of just people not gonna see that the table, right? You know, because I'm from the Shirley Chisholm error where they said, You know what? I'm gonna bring that folding chair to the table. You gotta You gotta put your own seat at the table. Yeah,

[01:07:03] spk_0: absolutely. And she ran for president two, didn't she?

[01:07:06] spk_1: Your then That's my sorority.

[01:07:08] spk_0: You? Yeah, and one of the quotes from Dr King in that letter was like he says, Well, I'm I'm okay with uncomfortableness. Yeah, he mentioned that to the other clergy. He says you guys wanna be comfortable, but I'm OK with with discomfort, you know, just so that you get the message across and eso I know. For all the audience members, Rio This is a tough, tough conversation toe Listen to and hear. But really, if you have been following my personal path, you know, truly you would see that this is important to me and all the things that I got with safety FM and doing a lot of the round table talks with them. But it is personal to me only because if I'm a businessman representing myself and I'm trying to get my name out there when people see me, are they going to say maybe we shouldn't trust this guy because the color is skin or maybe well, what can he do for me and eso? Therefore, this is a barrier, so it could be your gender could be your skin color. It could be anything. And yes, there is cases of reverse discrimination. However, it's really few and far between. In my opinion, maybe I might have to look that up even more so. I'm not talking a that ignorance, but I do see the number of actual racism and sexism that could affect the business person. So if you're like you're doing your own coaches business and you're doing your consultant business, how is it affecting you as you go into blind meetings with people. And they're like, Oh, do we get the right consultant?

[01:08:49] spk_1: Well, no. And the other thing, too, is, is why we're on this conversation is what makes my walk a little bit more difficult is that in my ministry coaching aspect, my specialization is sexual assault, domestic violence, intimate partner, violence, right? And so that you know, I'm trauma informed, trained and all this other type of stuff. So when I get into safety, like I said, I keep people safe. I keep women and, you know, men they get violated as well. Um, so from these acts of violence. But the thing about it is we never talk about the sexual assault. We never talk about the domestic violence that now becomes workplace violence. Way kind of talking about a little bit. We don't really talk about it because we don't really want to go into all of that stuff because that had home. But there was an article once it says, when home comes toe work and I just start, I just took off running. I'm like, That's right, because home does come to work. And if there's domestic violence at at home is gonna be workplace violence at work. I tell you, the number of women that I mentor that have been set assaulted at work, a safety people, you're 50 person. There is nothing but guys. Somebody assaults you, and you're just supposed to take it or not Say anything. If you want to continue being a safety person and I'm like, this should not happen in today's day and time, right, what it does. But the thing about it is, when do we talk about it? When do we say you okay? This is a problem. This is what we do. And this is why the whole diversity inclusion is really such a good conversation is because you could bring and bullying you could bring in sexual assault. You could bring in workplace violence. You could bring in all of that type of stuff because all of that stuff when you kill those onions, you know those layers that's a diversity issues. Right? You are. We all weren't raised the same. We all didn't live the same. We all don't have the same belief systems, right? Um you know, a lot of times, I'll tell people they'll say something and they'll be like, Oh, my goodness. Are you scared? I'm like no African Americans, Depending on how we're talking, we talk loud sometimes that mean do nothing. It just depends on where you are now, what some do. But if you don't realize that, you know and you get all you know, I haven't I've been in, like, five star hotels. I've been places where people have clutch their purse. And I was baby, I got more on me than you got in your bag. Okay? For money in the day. Didn't you make all month? Okay, so I don't say that to brag, but I say that to say I'm the person I need to be scared of You. You You could be jacking me up. You know what I'm saying? You should. It's the wrong. You know, someone when people are afraid of somebody that looks different or whatever. I just laugh. You know what I'm saying? I just It's funny, but it really isn't funny, right? You know, even, you know, Can you think about the experience of the African American person? Were the Onley race were no matter how many degrees you have no matter where you live, No matter what car you drive, it doesn't matter. Because because of the color of your skin, you're gonna see the certain Web. It doesn't matter. One of my one of my best guy friends drives a business. And every time he drives it, he gets pulled over every time. Almost he drives it, he gets pulled over. And he says, Now he says, You know what? Why think about it? We're the only race. No matter what's going on, if we don't, we don't have enough. Well, you know what they did be. They don't have this where? You know, black people. This. Okay, fine. Okay. So if they got too much money, when Who are you or your drug dealer? Or you're the girlfriend of a drug dealer. Where'd you get this from? Like who told you you could have this? Do you know how many degrees I have about my name? I mean, like, are you serious? Yeah. As a safety professional, I can't tell you what it feels like to get stopped by the police going. Is this the day I'm gonna die? I keep people safe at work, but I'm about to die in a car with a police officer because he thinks I'm kind of urgent. And And the thing that's so complicated over that is out Married to a police officer? No. Yeah, these air. Very difficult, painful conversations, you know. But at the end of the day, have the conversation come up with some action items, come up with some type of solutions, or what we should try. And if they don't work continuous improvement, go do something else right? But we can no longer live in a society where people or treated differently just because they don't look like, feel like whatever as part of the group, right, Everybody's individuality matters and and it and it Actually it makes it makes a conversation, Richard, because as a safety person, think about it. If you really understood different religions, if you really understood how people grow up differently or whatever, when you're given a safety talk, you know how to talk to reach everybody. It's not just about auditory, kinesthetic and all of that visual. It's about reaching people to the core of who they are. And when people feel as though they're heard and that you're listening to them, they're gonna be safe because they feel is though you get, like, the Avatar. I see you and as a safety person that has that has been the one thing that has really given me success is because any workgroup, any company, any anybody that I've ever supported, they will say Cassandra saw us. Cassandra cared about us. Cassandra is always trying to make sure we have what we need. So when I needed them to do something, they would do it. I can remember in my career that supervisors and managers would get mad with me because they said, Can you just go tell them to do this because they listen to you listening? I said, Really, why Don't listen to you because you don't treat you. Don't treat them like people. You treat them like property. You treat them like cattle. You treat them like a number. I treat them like they're my sister or mother or whoever. I treat them like family. You treat them like somebody that who I can't touch them. You know what I'm saying? Like those people who are those people Because the last time I check those people work and provide labor so that us people can have a check.

[01:15:42] spk_0: Well, that actually goes full circle to what we started within it.

[01:15:46] spk_1: Uh, yeah,

[01:15:48] spk_0: yeah. Alright, tell everybody how. Because Thio Cassandra on the real. And how can you reach you? What? Where you're teaching. I know your instructor for calls like me Are you doing to cost them to you? Instructing those as well?

[01:16:02] spk_1: You know, I was going to do that, but I had a conflict, so I wasn't able to do that. I can't do the i d. C. In January, but I'll pick it up next year. I'll pick it up next year. So? So for me, Jean, uh,

[01:16:15] spk_0: whether they reach you.

[01:16:16] spk_1: Okay, so the easiest way to reach me is through my community or my name networks is called pivot and thrive dot This and so that is where I'm hanging out the most these days. And I have ah, affinity groups. I started a woman small business incubator also doing some trauma recovery work there. Um, also just just I'm always into resource is and I tell people I'm so grateful right now that I get to be Cassandra, the Minister and Cassandra If the person all at one time, you know, in my world, you know what I'm saying. And then also, you can reach me on LinkedIn. Just Cassandra. Dylan. Uh, Cassandra M. Dylan. It'll come up and then also Oh, you know what? The easiest way to follow me is Professor cast of Dylan at Instagram. Um, it falls into that, uh, instagram Professor Katz. Dylan. If you're on Facebook Empowerment, coach online or compliance solutions, you know, we just there's so many ways to reach me. But the best is its proper cast Dylan on instagram because that feeds into all my other social media as well. And e e mail address Cast Dylan at CS dot com. And Dylan is D i l o n dot com and then I have a show every Sunday on fish bowl radio. It's just f b r n dot us and our broadcast live on Sundays

[01:17:54] spk_0: from 3 to 4. 3 to 4. You

[01:17:58] spk_1: know, the name of my show is Dylan on

[01:18:00] spk_0: the rial. Excellent. Well, I would be grateful to be on the show. I remember we talked about that and you put it worked. My brother from mystery Bibles. Eso I'm gonna tell. Can I talk to Cassandra? Okay, you get in. There

[01:18:18] spk_1: s Telcel. I'll type something up on his contact form because I did pull up his body. His website.

[01:18:27] spk_0: You did? Yeah. I'll look forward to medium. Excellent. Thank you so much for coming on. Man, This is so cool. I need to have you again. Because we've got to talk about so much more e mean so much more.

[01:18:41] spk_1: One of the things I am very grateful for is that we're able to speak out for others because some people, they feel some kind of way, but they never say something, right. And so I tell people in this time in this season and this dispensation that it's about, see something and saying something like the department homeland

[01:19:03] spk_0: security, if you injustice. You

[01:19:06] spk_1: know, if you see something that's not right, you know, do something about it, right? Just say something. And sometimes maybe you're not gonna be the catalyst, but by you saying something and tossing that over to somebody

[01:19:18] spk_0: else that gives them what they need so that they can run the race or perseverance, right? Yeah. All right. Thank you so much. Take care. This episode has been powered by Safety FM