Timestamps:
0.13 | Starting the Bayside Journey
10.56 | Developer Delights
17.23 | Passion and Purpose
26.31 | Words of Wisdom

Resources and Links:

[2:29] It's through those tough times that great things happen. And if you can just hold on and just keep pushing through and choose to fight, like actively choose to fight as hard as it is good things come.

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we once again speak with A Game Advisory director, Jim Malamatinas, as he takes us through the struggles, strategies and successes you can have when property developing. From a bayside struggle to multiple successful developments, Malamatinas is a prime example of tenacity in the property world. 

As we touched upon in our previous episode, Malamatinas’ dream was always to live on the bayside, but his foray into that area of the market was anything but easy. 

[0:13] That was the start of the bayside journey. So the bayside journey. So from Roval in this beautiful 40 Square house that was ready to go, we moved, we literally traded it in for almost the same purchase price for two bedrooms knocked down, that was five minutes walk to one of the most beautiful Bayside beaches. So the beach walk was good. It was close to all the shops, the village, the cafes, and the train station, but the home itself wasn't great. So I did spend a lot of time at the beach, which is good. To get me through.

[1:07] And we had to divest one or two [properties] to get, to be able to set us up for that development side of things. Because we literally had to borrow at least a million dollars back then to develop that site. And that's a lot of money. So we needed to divest a couple of properties to be able to give us the equity that we needed to borrow more.

[1:29] So would you consider that moment that you just explained to me one of your worst moments in your whole journey? Or was there one that was even worse than that?

[1:36] Mate. Absolutely, I think that was, that was the time, when I was sitting in bed with the possums above my head when I thought you know, I've got a four year old in a room cold, I had panel heaters that were sort of doing the job a little bit, I had my wife that was pregnant, she was probably 30 weeks at that stage. And you know, we'd invested some money with a builder and lost it. And we're in no man's land, we just didn't know what the next step was. But the next step was to either lose everything. And like I said, concede and give up. Because I was thinking when you go through those times, this sort of thing. You go into victim victim mode at times, and you think, gee, this is so hard, I can't do this, all that negative mind talk that happens to all of us. 

[2:20] But I think being a fighter from such a young age, and having that childhood that I had just told me that resilience that you know, life is not always easy. And it's through those tough times that great things happen. And if you can just hold on and just keep pushing through and choose to fight, like actively choose to fight as hard as it is, good things come. And, that's the choice that I made that night. And I've never looked back, because throughout the property development, there's been many property developments post that before we got to this one, and there's just in life in general, there's always something that will come up. That's maybe not as severe as that. But there's always challenges that come up through property development.

[3:00] I'm sure you're familiar with other guests that you've had on as well. You start digging those foundations and things come up with extra costs that you haven't budgeted for, and, you know, issues within the bank, subdivision issues with your name, the issue, I've experienced it. I mean, we're going through a development project right now. And there's another issue that I'm dealing with, I was dealing with it all morning today. But it's about trying to step back from the issue, you've got a good team around you being creative, and try and methodically work through all the different options, and just leveraging the experts to help you because I don't know all the answers, but I employ a great deal of really smart people that do. So by working together with everyone, we come up with a really great solution or multiple solutions, and we work through and then find the best one out of the lot.

[4:21] Tell us a little bit more about what happened with that particular deal, because you're at that crossroads. Curious. How did you come out at the end?

[4:30] Yeah, that's a really good question. Because it takes me back in time. That was 15 years ago. So it's when I first started developing. So it's been that long. So I remember the builder went into liquidation. We'd lost about $20,000 that we'd put down, we hadn't started building but it was one of those deals where they designed the townhouses and own the rights to them. And that was the $20,000 that we'd put down. So we were lucky that we were in that middle process or the early process, because there were a lot of people that were midway through the process. I said, either base or frame or even upstage that everything was frozen at that point. So I guess I'm grateful that we're really early. So we lost that $20,000. And we just lost time, because we really had to go through the design phase again. 

[5:16] So really going back to basics, I found, screened a few different architects, I found one, and then we started the process to get on our own, without relying on this sort of packaged deal company that does the design and the build for you. So we just went through that company, we designed the townhouses that we wanted, again, I had the floor plans anyway, that I'd given to that building company, because I do them. And then the architect actually improved on them, which is obviously what they're paid to do. It's their area of expertise. And so then we went manually through the town planning process, and ourselves as the real developers, as opposed to going through this company that was going to facilitate it all. And we've got that all approved. And then we found a builder, got the finance, and started the build process. And it probably added, I think that whole journey added an extra year to the project than it needed to be so on his money, it cost a bit of money. It costs a lot of stress, a year's worth of time. 

[6:19] But I must say Ty, I think that was one of the most profitable early projects. And that's what really helped to get us here to this, to this home that we're living in now and other properties that we have, because those two choices, really at that point was to sell and lose money and walk away and you know, buy another property, either, you know, further out and not in that great location that we're in, or to find the solution. And I didn't that night, when I made that decision. I didn't know what the solution was, I just started to ask questions, get curious, talk to different people, friends, architects, or different people. And that's how I figured out what the actual process was, because I had no idea. And that's the great thing with what I offer my clients now is that ultimately, when people don't know what they're doing the learnings that I've had over 15 years, if I can shorten people's property learning journey, and add value to them, so that they don't have to experience the kind of stress that I did. That really, you know, that really gives me satisfaction, and adds value to my life as well.

Malamatinas explains how his greatest challenge turned into his greatest success and teaching moment. 

[8:50] It was still a massive stretch. And that's why we needed to divest things. And so the aha moment was really just tied back to the beginning. And like I said, the moments that keep happening throughout every development, whenever a problem arises, it's about yes, you have a panic attack. And you're stressing that moment when it's presented to you, but it's about taking some time walking away. And really thinking it through methodically around, what are the potential options? Who do I need to consult with to try and come up with a solution, and then come up with multiple solutions and work them through sometimes there's just no solution? I haven't encountered that yet. To every single property development project or property investment project. There's been so many, I can't tell you where you think, I don't know what we're going to do here. It's not going to work. But you just take it, you walk away, take some time and you work through it. And there's always a way there's always, always, always a way is probably the takeout. 

[9:48] So I think it's just that persistence and the knowing that it's going to be okay, and then the consultation with the experts and pushing people because ultimately, you know, if you challenge people, they want to rise to the occasion and that It's, you know, from my corporate training, obviously, it was quite senior I worked with CEOs, I was always pushed. So I learned how to do the same, and always in a nice way, but it's about, you know, you've got a great team of really intelligent people. And they present you with one solution. But that doesn't work. It's about okay, well, we need other solutions, because this is not working. And we need to make this work. So that's the problem, come back to me with a couple of solutions.

[10:56] So just curious about the current property that you're living in, which is your home here. How long did something like that take you to develop and maybe share with us, you know, what happened along the journey be curious to know?

[11:11] It was an interesting one, it was only a year [long] build, which was great. We had a good builder, which was good. I mean, we put a pool in so the pool had to go in first, there were some issues with the pool where they started to build the shell. So the first issue was that as soon as we started the build the shell was a meter out from where it needed to go. So that was a disaster, they had to redo that. But that wasn't their cost, it was just literally me being on top of the building supervisor and figuring that out before anyone else found it. So there were so many different hurdles along the way found out because we're so close to the bay, those foundation issues, a lot of extra cost there. But I guess the key to that was that I was on top of it every single step of the way.

[11:50] I'm the project manager of everything that happens. And so I was doing that, you know, at the time, while I was working in a senior corporate role, which was extremely stressful, because ultimately, I have this great role and full time job that I needed to perform in. And we know, senior level corporate roles are pretty demanding. So coming home in the evening, and keeping on top of this build was probably one of the most stressful times in my life. But I think about what I've learned through it all. And now, I think, once we built it and moved in, it's about more than just the house and the wealth and the rest of it. For me, now, this is done, the dream has been achieved in terms of the home. And I'm living here while my children grow up. And if we need to downsize in the future, we can do that.

[12:41] But ultimately, I'm not looking at doing more high end developments, I'm looking at my future. My children. And so now you would think a typical, if you looked at the next five years, typical Greek dad or Greek family man would be thinking about the next 5 years, I really have to set my children up and buy them a house, like My Big Fat Greek Wedding that I referred to before, didn't happen to me, and it's not going to happen to my children. Because even though I can do that for them, I don't want to and I won't. And it's not because I'm being stingy or I don't want to do it, I want to help them and support them. But more than anything, I want to coach them on how they can achieve it themselves. And I want them to learn some of the lessons that I had to learn that when they get to those life moments where they're either going to fold, or they have to choose to fight, I want them to choose to fight every single time and to win. And look, they've been lucky enough to have an amazing kind of life that I never had. And so sometimes, when you have that it's not as easy to teach your children resilience. 

[13:52] But I've been present as a parent with my wife and I, our children are our main focus, especially in these really critical years of 11 and 15. I've got a preteen and a teenager, as I said, so the next five years for me in property in general is coaching them through how to source their own property, what to do to buy their first time. And, you know, the beginning is my daughter having her first job. So doing that. And the second part is, you know, sharing my learnings with my clients because, you know, in the early days, I didn't realize how valuable my 15 years worth of property development experience and then 20 odd years of investment buying has generated so many learnings and hacks along the way that people can fast track by using an advocate. I mean, just yesterday, I signed up someone who’s in the military. He has no idea on where to buy and what to buy, the research and the numbers behind it. And I can offer him that; he can be hands off. So there's so much in that when you consult an expert that’s sort of been there done that versus someone that's just looking at a spreadsheet.

[15:02] It's really amazing what you have to share, then. So many lessons learned, just even just hearing what you've shared, then I think it's the same thing with, you know, if you give someone a fish, they'll only be able to eat for the day. But if you teach them how to fish, you know, they'll be able to do it for the rest of their life. 

[15:16] I should have used that saying, but that was a really good one to use. It's so true. You know, and my kids, we joke about it at times that they're not going to get a house for me. And so ‘Dad, that's a really good one, that one,’ and they've, they've seen the whole journey. And, you know, I guess by seeing it happen, and obviously, you now have a lot of property as well, by seeing what their mum and I have been able to do, accomplish that goal, or that one would be so cool, I gotta look, possibly I'll let you live in it rent rent free for five years while you save up your own deposit. But there's no way you're just getting it, I'd rather done it. In all honesty, I'd rather donate it to charity, than to just spoon feed it to my children, I just, it's not my mentality what to do. And your quote, about, you know, the fish and eating for a day versus a lifetime is perfect, I'm giving them all the tools to set them up for a great life of them achieving things and that satisfaction of growing, and being that person that they want to be. And they won't get there if I spoon feed them.

Coming up after the break, Malamatinas shows us where his journey has brought him… 

[17:24] I'm getting goosebumps as I say this, but we bought a property, I bought a few properties this month. But the last property I bought was for a family.

The tricks of the property investment trade… 

[20:27] I think my service is always catered to what my client's needs are. So if I have a client that's about to retire, and it's cashflow, then you know, I put forward three different strategies. 

How he learned about the financial management side of investment… 

[23:51] A lot of my learning has come from surrounding myself with really talented people. As I said, I think numbers are a key thing that people miss out on. And I have a really talented wife, that helps me in that regard as well.

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

In his professional life, Malamatinas focuses on his clients’ personal motivations in order to make the best investments for them. 

[17:23] I've gotta say, I'm getting goosebumps as I say this, but we bought a property, I bought a few properties this month. But the last property I bought was for a family. And we're looking for quite a while because they had quite a stringent list. But last night, I went into the photo taking ceremony and their children got to see the house for the first time and they hadn't seen it. And that moment, for me, was really profound, you know, I get my greatest satisfaction by sharing the learnings going through the process with clients that aren't really clear on what they want in their homes. And so I'll always look at things from an investment lens to say even if it's your primary place of residence, I want this doubled in 10-12 years. So let's buy strategically and get a really clear plan on obviously, your requirements in a home and suburb. And then I'll go ahead and source them. And I look mainly for pre market and off market opportunities. Because that's where there's less competition. And we consider properties that you know, at a more competitive price, then obviously having that negotiation expertise and being a licensed agent, we can negotiate with selling agents quite well, because we're both professionals at the end of the day. And we share information. So I think for my clients, the value add is just being able to share that knowledge that I've built up, which I didn't realize in the early days, what I was learning would lead me here. But now that it has, and even after Friday's experience, we're there for an hour, because we just stayed in to just relish the moment so much of putting the sticker on walking through the house and just seeing the looks on the kids faces and picking their rooms. That was the most rewarding part of my whole week. 

[18:55] So you know, doing that for clients, and you know, even investment buyers. For them, it's all about building wealth. So there's not as much emotion as an emotional buyer, but it's still a strategic goodbye from an investment focus, that property will definitely double in 12 years. And I said to them, yeah, we'll be in touch. So, they’re in Mentone. So they are only three [kilometers] from me. So a lot of my clients become neighbors and I see them on the beach nearly every month. So it's very interesting. I've gotta say, but yeah, ultimately, it's that empathy investment buyers, that's another passion as well. Because, you know, just yesterday, as I was saying, I bought at a young guy who's only 25 and he's buying his second investment property, but just had no idea what to do, where to go or what to buy. So I can crunch it, look at all the suburbs and look at the data and you know, put forward some recommendations based on history. I mean, I'm not a financial advisor by any stretch, but I can look at information and look at what things have done property types of such and put forward recommendations and then ultimately it's up to the clients to make the decision. And then they buy great assets that will grow, and they'll come back again next year and buy another one.

[20:03] That's excellent. And is that the kind of strategy that you've been applying yourself that you also share with your clients? Or is it slightly different because you've had 15-20 years of experience in property development. And it's obviously led to where you are today to better buy a dream home and achieve the lifestyle that you want. Is that something similar to what I guess the clients are also learning from you as well?

[20:25] Ty, really good question. I think my service is always catered to what my client's needs are. So if I have a client that's about to retire, and it's cashflow, then you know, I put forward three different strategies, you can either go with capital growth, which is what I focused on, and how I built my wealth over time. But you need serviceability, for capital growth kind of focus strategies, you get more growth, but you need to sometimes contribute. So that serviceability element is key, and I've obviously had great incomes over the years in the early years with my wife's income and my income to be able to do that. And that's not for everybody. But if you're near retirement, so you're in your mid 50s, you look you need more cash flow positive properties, so that they give you that cash flow that you need in retirement, and still have a capital growth element. But there's not so much. And at the moment, what I'm doing is, in Melbourne in particular, we've identified five zones that have cash neutral or slightly cash positive aspects to them, but they're mainly capital growth focused, so they still can look after themselves. But they're going to grow almost as if you're just going through a complete capital growth strategy. So I guess the executive summary to everything else is that I put forward all the different strategies to my clients, I put forward what my recommendation is, but also take their needs and their situation on board. And they decide, you know, what's going to work best for them.

[21:59] I mean, just two weeks ago, we bought a property development site in Hampton. So our base is in the Bayside suburb, next to Brighton in Melbourne. Same sort of thing, you know, these are first time developers and they didn't know what to look for in a site. And so I was able to make some tree elements there that were quite risky. So I made sure that we explored the trees or worked with counsel to see, you know, what kind of houses we could get on site. But it was an amazing opportunity. It was a full house, five minutes walk to the beach, the train station, all the shops. And, you know, I bought it in 48 hours from an agent yesterday. No one even saw it before I did. So they were super happy clients from Sydney, wanting to invest in Melbourne. And ultimately, they don't just get the expertise of me finding them an off market property and buying it at a great price. But they'd get the expertise of buying something that they can build, you know, they wanted to build a duplex. So that was their objective. And that's what we'd go for. So every single client's needs are different. It's not about me telling you as a client what to do. It's about understanding what you want to do and how I can best help you get there.

[23:02] Yep, absolutely. That's great. Now let's jump over and talk a little bit about resources and say, mentors, as you said, you grew up when you first were 13, you had a fantastic mentor. That was through CDs, Tony Robbins. And so from there, it helped you set goals, but along your journey, how did you develop all those skills and learn from property development? Did you have any specific resources that you accessed or any particular mentors in that side of things? 

[23:28] From a property development perspective? Hmm, I've worked with a really good bunch of architects along the way, land surveyors. Builders, I work with many builders, and now I've got a certain builder that I just exclusively work with, who doesn't take on any new clients. Now, he's just got a bank of developers that he works with. So I don't quit my jobs anymore. And I think a lot of my learning has come from surrounding myself with really talented people. As I said, I think numbers are a key thing that people miss out on. And I have a really talented wife, that helps me in that regard as well. Look, I gotta be honest with you, Ty, I was always the big picture man from the early days. And you know, she'd say, ‘Hey, that's a great idea.’ But when we look at the numbers that I really stack up, so now she's trained me to be really focused on the numbers over many, many years. 

[24:19] And luckily, we had that because I've seen so many people sort of fail just because of the number side of things. So you can buy it because you get wrapped up in the emotion and the big picture of saying, ‘Oh, it's going to cost this much to do this, this man should do that.’ But you don't actually think about all the costs involved in the process. And that's what I understand is costing it all out for you. So you know, what the end game looks like, and what your actual ROI is. And so, you know, I'll give you an example. There's a recent project that I just supposed to start building a month ago, but we'll go through some issues again that we're working through, and apparently, today is the day that site's been scraped, it has been set out. Fence has been put up. It's all ready to go but we bought that site with plans for four units. And I just didn't think they were viable. So costed them out and they weren't viable. So we're back into council with three, and they're a lot more viable. So I think, you know, when you're borrowing $3 million to do a site, and you're only going to make $200,000, that ROI, and that's not very good. So, by redesigning then maximizing the block, and having three standalone street fronted units in a really great Bayside suburb, you know, it was gonna give us a great return. But it also fuels my passion, because it all goes down to that, for me, I'm passionate about the bay, I only develop by the bay. So for me, it's all around the water living here and developing by the water. And ultimately, I want to live here, and I want to make it more affordable for other people that want to live here.

[26:31] Great. Well, let's jump into a bit of further mindset stuff, because I know we've talked a little bit about that side is, I guess, what, what do you think has been sort of the best advice that you've received over this journey that you know, somebody's passed on to you, or you've learned from someone?

[26:44] Oh, that's a good one. I remember in the early days, I was just so gung ho, and just always on the go really had something to prove. Because of my childhood. And where I've come from, I really wanted to prove to my parents that, you know, I could do this, and that you can take risks and get ahead. But I just was missing out on living because I was just so focused on the destination and not the present. And so the best advice I remember was from pharmaceuticals when I was a pharmaceutical rep, an ex pharmaceutical rep, who was a lot older than I was and had gone through different things in life and just said, ’Jim, you've really got to stop and smell the roses.’ And it links back to my favorite all time book by Eckhart Tolle, which is The Power of Now. And it's about this present moment, you know, like me and you right now we're here, and I'm just right here with you versus thinking about the next meeting that I've got. And you know, the agent that I've got to see later in the day is gonna go to eight o'clock tonight, but I'm not stressing and thinking about all that stuff. I'm just leaving right now, at this moment, and I'm not even stressing about it. Some things didn't go great yesterday, they're done. It's over. That's about when you can truly be present with your children, with your family and with business. Amazing things happen. You know, when you're in that flow of life, and you're truly there. That's where the gold is.

To cap off his wisdom, Malamatinas shares with us what he would’ve said to himself 10 years ago, and speculates about the road ahead. 

[28:31] I think I would just say, you know, believe in yourself more, back yourself more, you know, you're on the right track. And just keep going.

[28:59] I think my big journey is: I'll continue with my development side of the business. I think for me, that's a passion project, if you like it's still profitable, but there's, you know, a lot of love in that. But a big part of his growing the advocacy arm of the business and just really sharing those learnings with people because seeing the outcomes that we can achieve for people in such a short period of time, and I've had people come to me after looking for a home for three years. And we found them something off market in four and a half weeks. And you know, that lady, I remember her it was three months ago, she was crying on the phone when she called me as a prospective customer. And then to achieve that outcome. I mean, she got me teary, you know, that's all heart. So I just, I really, you know, connect with people and empathize with them. And so when I go through that journey with people, it's just an amazing outcome. So really, that's what I want to keep doing because at this point in life, it's really about being present for my children and being there to support them and sharing for other learnings that I've had with customers to help them, but at the same time continuing with my development side of things. 

Tyrone Shum:  

[30:06]Well, Jim, you've achieved so much, especially in your lifetime, you know, those goals that you set when you're 13 years old, and you've done an amazing property journey and property development as well. How much do you think your success has been due to skill, hard work and intelligence? And how much of it do you think has been due to luck?

[30:27] It is an interesting question. Look, I personally think that, you know, the harder you work, the luckier you get. And the smarter you work, the luckier you get. So to be completely honest, I think, you know, luck is one of those things that comes when opportunity meets preparation. And so when you work really hard, and smart, then, you know, like, it's part of that, because opportunities there, and you're ready to leverage it.

Thank you to Jim Malamatinas, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.