In this episode he shares what drew him to medicine and how he got there, despite a fairly large bump at the beginning of his journey. He also explains the perks of working in healthcare when it comes to property, his most recent professional accomplishment, and the investment strategy he tried prior to property that didn’t quite fit the bill.

Timestamps:
00:50 | Here to Help
03:16 | Studying in Sydney
07:21 | Turning His Mind to Medicine
11:31 | Are Shares the Solution?
15:55 | A Travelling Man
17:50 | A Big Commitment
23:29 | The Advantages of Working in Healthcare
31:17 | Chapter Two

Resources and Links:

[00:11:31] Without a full time steady income, [I] wasn't able to borrow anyway. So I dabbled in shares a little bit, some wins, some losses. But when I started as an intern doctor, I knew I wanted to get into property investing.

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with Daniel Lamp, a doctor and avid property investor from Sydney. While neither medicine nor property investing are embedded in his DNA, he shares what got him into both of these fields, and how he works to strike the perfect work/life balance. 

Tyrone Shum:   

Lamp works as a GP and is proud to help people from all walks of life when they need it most. However, he knows the importance of taking care of himself— including his financial health. In his free time, he’s also combined his two passions to run meetup groups for doctors and healthcare professionals interested in property investing. 

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:00:50] [My days are] very varied. So I currently split my time in between general practice and also working in emergency at the hospital. 

 

[00:01:01] So I guess in the general practice clinic setting, I see patients manage their chronic conditions, do preventative care, check results, things like that. 

  

[00:01:11] Whilst in the emergency department, usually it's more kind of acute or emergency type presentations [where] patients come in with a problem and my role is to come up with a diagnosis, and then also a management plan. They might come in with heart attacks, strokes, infections, injuries that need stitching, mental health crisis, it's a real mix. [In] both my role assign us my problem solving skills, which I quite enjoy, and it's great helping people [and] meeting people from all walks of life.

Tyrone Shum:   

He’s keen to buck stereotypes, starting with how he got into his profession.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:02:21] Coming from [an] immigrant family background, [we] not particularly well off growing up. And I guess [the] importance of education was [instilled] in me as well. But in regards to medicine, unlike the stereotype, my parents didn't actually push me into medicine or anything like that. I wanted to choose a degree, a career where there was science and academic as well, but then can also interact with people and make a real difference in their lives. So I applied for medical school and was accepted. 

Tyrone Shum:   

A Hong Kong native, Lamp came to Australia at three years old. While he and his family quickly found a place to call home, he found himself venturing north when it was time to spread his wings.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:03:16] [We] initially [lived] in Western Sydney, and then later in the northern suburbs, kind of Hornsby area of Sydney. I went to high school in Baulkham Hills High, which was a selective school. So [there was a] heavy emphasis on academics. And I wanted to choose a uni degree where I could... I enjoyed science, but then also wanted to have a real world application impact on people. 

  

[00:03:57] So [I] applied widely for medicine, and was accepted, I think, for Western Sydney and also Newcastle. But I liked Newcastle's program and it was a good lifestyle living there as well. I enjoyed my time studying there.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:04:16] So I'm just curious. Now, do you know why your parents moved from Hong Kong to Australia when you were very young?

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:04:23] I think that was the around the time of... I think 1997 or so, [during the] handover of Hong Kong back to China. And I think that was part of the reason and also wanting a better life, like lots of immigrants in Australia. Offering opportunities, which I'm guess I'm grateful for.  

Tyrone Shum:   

He grabbed all the opportunities he could with both hands, though like many young people, he temporarily lost sight of his goals. Luckily, a reminder came along at just the right time.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:05:42] It was a bit of a trek to get to [school], I remember that. But in terms of the environment, going to class, teachers, [I] quite enjoyed it. One thing [that] does stick out in mind is when I was in year 10, I remember being called to the deputy principal's office. 'What have I done wrong?' My mind [was] churning. 

  

[00:06:09] And then I found out that I was in the bottom 10% of the cohort. It was kind of like a wake up call to try and pull things together. And I did soon after that have the goal of wanting to study medicine. So I knew I had to try, so I implemented a plan, [and] consistent action, [like] lunchtimes, using that to study as well. And ended up, at the end of year 12, going from bottom 10 out of 200, to the top 10 out of 200. So that was a real achievement, and I was quite proud of that.

Tyrone Shum:   

While the moment in the principal’s office gave him a nudge in the right direction, it wasn’t what drove him to study medicine.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:07:21] I wouldn't say there was one particular incident or reason, as I [alluded to] before, I quite enjoyed all the sciences, really. But then I wanted something where [I could use] a bit of real world application and employable skills. Rather than I knew some people that have gone down same medical science route, and then [found it] hard to get employment after that, as well. So there was that practical side of it. 

  

[00:07:50] But also as well, I guess, from my interactions with doctors growing up, [I] overall had quite positive influences. And I guess that opened up my mind. And I guess being a selective school as well, there were some colleagues that were interested in medicine as well. Other things I thought briefly about was law and stuff like that. But I'm glad I chose medicine over, say, law.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:08:53] And I'm really curious, then, after you finished high school, did you go straight into studying into medicine at Newcastle University? Or did you take some time off to potentially travel and see the world? Or did you do any work or job or anything like that?

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:09:10] [With] medicine you can go either [the] undergraduate route or the graduate route. The trend, I think, from what I hear nowadays, is more unis are leaning towards doing an undergrad degree then going to post grad. But at the time I went into Newcastle, which was [an] undergraduate five year degree. 

  

[00:09:30] And it was a good time learning the theory in lectures. But then also, one of the highlights was the early clinical placements, where you could actually meet patients and see what you were learning being applied to them. And also, obviously, like [in] other uni degrees there's a lot of self directed learning as well. And it was good, but towards the end of the five year degree, I couldn't wait to start working.

Tyrone Shum:   

He wasn’t exempt from working hard while studying, and also capitalised on his skills early on.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:10:19] I did save up my money. And towards the end, I knew I wanted to get into property investing. So I knew I needed to start saving for deposit. So [I] did a lot of casual jobs, retail, and also had, for a period of time, a tutoring business as well, helping people mainly with maths and also to a medicine entry as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

While his jobs came in handy when it came to saving, they alone weren’t enough to jump into property. Always a problem solver, Lamp had a solution— or so he thought.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:11:31] Without a full time steady income, [I] wasn't able to borrow anyway. So I dabbled in shares a little bit, some wins, some losses. But when I started as an intern doctor, I knew I wanted to get into property investing.

 

[00:12:11] Basically, I did shares initially, and [I] remember one share tripling, but then I had an, I think it was a mining share that dropped 90%, which kind of balanced each other out, I think, by the end of it. And scrolling through the share prices every day, I don't think [that] was [a] particularly great use of time. And I guess I did think ahead, [I] wanted to improve my circumstances financially. And I could see just saving by itself is important, but [I] needed to take the next step and invest in some assets as well. 

  

[00:12:53] And I could see lots of Australians believe in and love property as an asset vehicle. So I did a lot of research. And then later when I was an intern doctor, attending some meetups, looking at forums such as Property Chat, and listening to podcasts such as this one, and you're just getting all the information I can, and then later applying [the knowledge]. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:13:40] Was there any particular book or anything that you stumbled across that kind of [gave] you insight? Or was it just mainly the forums and listening to podcasts and talking to people and meetups?

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:13:51] I don't think there was one particular book. I do remember reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which I think a lot of people do. And that got me just mindset wise, interested in investing, and also partly business as well, rather than just being an employee. But obviously, that book doesn't directly apply to help[ing] you with buying property in Australia. So use a wide range of resources.

Tyrone Shum:   

His parents were in professional roles, but not within property. Although property didn’t run through his veins, the Lamp family has always worked hard.

Daniel Lamp:  

[00:14:45] My parents have their own home but weren't taught or particularly did property investing. So my dad, once here he eventually did to have to retrain. I think he was initially in IT at the time, and my mum was an accountant, and in Sydney is a bookkeeper. 

Coming up after the break, Lamp shares where his profession has taken him…

[00:16:18] I was a intern in Sydney. I've worked in a variety of different roles and locations, you do different terms rotating every 10 to 12 weeks or so. 

How and why property investing appeared on the horizon…

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:23:29] I could see property allowed leverage, you can get steady cash flow from rental income, and obviously, of course, capital growth.

He shares the highs and lows of his first investment experience.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:28:11] There were hiccups along the way. Which, you know, when friends and colleagues asked me about property investing, I tell them to expect hiccups. It's not gonna be just smooth sailing. 

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:   

His role has led to many opportunities to travel and work across Australia, both in cities and rural areas. He found venturing into the regions proved somewhat of a culture shock.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:15:55] Everyone after medical school has to do a junior year's internship and then resident before potentially going into specialty training. But given there's so many junior doctors nowadays, usually people do a couple more years of junior unaccredited training before getting on to a training program. 

 

[00:16:18] I was a intern in Sydney. I've worked in a variety of different roles and locations, you do different terms rotating every 10 to 12 weeks or so. So, I worked in very busy tertiary hospitals in Sydney, all the way to some rural locations, such as some even in [the] outback [like] Broken Hill in New South Wales, Griffith in the Murrumbidgee region, and also in Mount Isa in northern Queensland. 

  

[00:16:58] In the more rural locations, as there [are] less doctors, there was an opportunity to kind of step up and upskill. And at the smaller hospitals, you do see some really sick patients, but you have less resources available. So I do remember being part of the team, trying to resuscitate some really unwell patients, and then trying to coordinate with the Royal Flying Doctor Service to kind of retrieve them out to more major centres for more specialised care.

Tyrone Shum:   

During these stressful times, Lamp certainly felt challenged and ultimately took away many important life lessons.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:17:50] It was obviously challenging, but I guess the training kicks in, you do the basics. [You] go through a system of what you can do, what may be wrong with the patient, examination, investigations, and then trying to figure out the management plan, involving specialists or retrieval and things like that. So yeah, it was a good learning experience.

[00:18:37] With their staff, I could see being a smaller team that everyone knows everyone by the first name and [they] can kind of work together as well. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:18:50] Excellent. So you've completed, let's say, you've gone through how many years was that to do your your internship?

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:18:57] I did three years in the hospital system. And then I then applied and was accepted into general practice training. And that was another two years. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:19:10] Wow. So let's say all up 10 years of your life has been pretty much up to training until you actually become a qualified GP, is that correct?

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:19:21] I've had some friends and colleagues who [have been] trying to get into other specialty training programs such as surgery those ones instead of being general practice, those could be, you know, five [or] six plus years for that.

Tyrone Shum:   

As with many people dedicated to their profession, Lamp has a specific reason he chose the path he did of becoming a GP.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:20:06] I could see in the hospital there's a lot of really unwell patients, but some of the conditions could have been prevented. [They] could be diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol, things like that, you've seen them towards the pointy end in emergency and intensive care where you can try your best, but imagine if we could prevent that in the first place. So that kind of drew me towards general practice. 

  

[00:20:34] I'll be honest, I think with some of the highlight in the media as well, there's a lot of challenges in general practice, and preventative health care in the system as well. And politics, which I probably won't get into in this podcast. But I guess that's what drew me to that as well. And also partly as well, in terms of you don't have to do night shifts in general practice and things like that. 

  

[00:21:01] But from working in healthcare, I can see that it's really not just the doctors working hard, but also, the nurses and the cleaners, and especially in some of those smaller regions I worked in, I could see everyone kind of pulling in together to try and keep the health system going and providing the best possible care in challenging circumstances.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:22:41] Well, it's been really interesting. And then since then, you've been a GP, all the way through? 

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:22:45] [I] recently got my fellowship, but I'm still working in the hospital in the emergency, sometimes. I enjoy that mix, and also keeping up my skills as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

After receiving mixed results during his experience with shares, Lamp turned his eye to property towards the end of his university degree. 

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:23:29] I could see property allowed leverage, you can get steady cash flow from rental income, and obviously, of course, capital growth. And also, I guess, I found out that certain professionals can get into property with 10% deposit and not have to pay Lenders Mortgage Insurance, such as doctors, nurses, [and] accountants, so I could see some of the advantages with property. 

  

[00:23:23] And I guess my mindset was that I need to be investing, even from early in the career. Because at the time, I could see these doctors, more advanced in the career around me, so busy looking after patients, doing overtime, doing night shifts, on call, working 60, up to 100 hours a week. They had no time really to take care of their own physical health or so their financial health. So I could see you know, just working and working for so many hours for decades on end was not going to be sustainable. 

 

[00:24:23] So after in my first year as a junior doctor, now I was 23 years old and had saved up a deposit and had done the research. I didn't get any handouts from my parents. My salary as a first year doctor was $60,000 [per annum] and I had around I think $90,000 in savings. So I guess with 10% deposit, stamp duty, buyer agent fees, solicitor fees, all in I had to chip in $80,000. 

  

[00:25:00] And I remember at the time [that] was so daunting. I had watched my savings build up over time in the bank account. And then I remember feeling, like, sick in the stomach. Now pretty much having to put all my life savings into this one investment property. 

Tyrone Shum:   

After growing up in Sydney, the harbour city was Lamp’s first choice when it came to locations to invest in. However, the timing just wasn’t right.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:26:26] I could see that Sydney had just peaked. And for my budget, I could see better value in another state. I could see that Brisbane was undervalued at the time and had good fundamentals. 

  

[00:26:38] I did use a buyer's agent for the first one because I guess I wanted someone to hold my hand for such a big investment decision, especially kind of first investment, I wanted to make the right choice. 

  

[00:26:50] So [I] bought in a suburb in north Brisbane, reasonably close the city, [it] had good amenities. And at the time, there was a piece of land in the infill suburb, and then [I] separately engaged a builder with a fixed price contract. [They] built a standard four bedroom, two bath, double lockup garage, all in for about $560,000. 

  

[00:27:17] I did want to point that this is different to house and land packages where, like, a marketer or spruikers sells you the whole package in a very far flung suburban [location where] they get at, like, a 20% markup. In general, I'm not a fan of house and land packages. 

  

[00:27:35] But back to this one, I guess in hindsight, the downside was that the land was not yet titled. Initially I was told [it would] only be two [or] three months, but it ended up taking almost a year to finally get registered, which was really frustrating at the time. 

  

[00:27:53] I guess one silver lining was that the market was still going up, and I only had to pay interest on the land portion initially. So [I] only had to pay stamp duty on the land. And not like a house and land package where you paid the stamp duty on the full value. 

  

[00:28:11] There were hiccups along the way. When friends and colleagues asked me about property investing, I tell them to expect hiccups. It's not gonna be just smooth sailing. 

 

[00:28:21] So I guess in this case, the initial building plans submitted to Council were declined, as apparently it needed a specific distance between the back fence and the back of the house. So then [it was] back to the drawing board, further delays, paying more interest. But in the end, construction got started. I got regular updates with pictures, and it was very exciting once we got to the completion stage.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:28:49] Excellent. And how long did that take to complete, the whole build, from purchase to the end?

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:28:53] I would say around a year, all up. And when it came up time to try to rent the property out, at the time, it wasn't a hot rental market. One prospective tenant wanted an extra aircon installed in the master bedroom, and negotiated and they were happy to pay $20 extra a week in rent if I put the aircon in. So I did. And I guess this is a lesson in terms of trying to come up with win/win solutions for everyone. 

Tyrone Shum:   

He bought the property as a fixed price building contract, and used a mortgage broker to organise the construction finance. When all was said and done, it was 2018 and time to start the process again.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:31:17] I just sat on it while I continued my medical career. And then later, I did buy my second investment property. So I do have an interesting story for this one.  

  

[00:31:35] I had finished a set of seven night shifts, [I was] working in intensive care at the time. And then I hopped on a plane to Brisbane. And then in this weekend, I just inspected 10 to 15 properties, kind of back to back. [I had a] little rental car, just going around. 

  

[00:31:54] There was one property that fit the criteria that I was after. [With] this one, I felt a bit more confident to do on my own as well and do my research. So there was one property that fit the criteria, and then I put in an offer, and it was accepted, which was very exciting. 

  

[00:32:12] This was just before the 2019 federal election, where there was a lot of market uncertainty. People [were] holding off [on making] decisions [while] waiting for this event, but I pulled the trigger anyway. So soon after election, the Brisbane market started taking off. And then I bought that one for $625,000. And today it'd be [worth] between $1 million to $1.1 million.

Tyrone Shum:   

Between this and his first property now valued at $900,000, he’s made some excellent returns in a short period of time and is ready to keep rolling.

Daniel Lamp:   

[00:33:21] [I have] the two investment properties. And looking back, with the second property which I purchased myself and actually did better than the buyer's agent with the first one. But overall [I'm] still happy with the market, I guess. 

 

[00:33:36] And also, as I said, avoided [some things unlike] some of my colleagues [who] unfortunately bought the really wrong asset class and gone backwards, and I guess I'm thankful that I've done okay, so far, and [I] keep learning and keep pressing forward.

Daniel Lamp’s story continues in the next episode of Property Investory. He shares more about his upbringing and how it affected his finances…

 

[00:01:46] Growing up in a not particularly well-off household, I guess savings habits were instilled in me. 

 

The reason why people like himself are often seen as ‘easy targets’ for some…

 

[00:03:00] I have had a few close calls in regards to almost buying the wrong type of property. 

We dive into how it doesn’t always pay off to listen to everybody else’s opinions.

[00:07:47] And also, not just the whole economy, I think, it's also your personal economy. 

 

And that’s next time on Property Investory.