From the initial interviews where everybody was unsure how to navigate the new waters, to 300+ interviewees including featured regulars such as Kulkarni, we’ll hear how Shum built his company from the ground up. Much like a new home or development, it rose from a blank slate and has so far tackled booms, peaks, and the uncertainty 2020 brought to the table. We’ll hear the triumphs and tribulations alike, and last but not least, what you can expect from Property Investory in the future.

Timestamps:
01:18 | There Must Be More Out There
04:26 | Biting the Bullet
06:06 | Property Investory, Unfiltered
09:28 | A Smorgasbord of Strategies
12:36 | Free Your Mind
15:04 | Say What?
17:37 | The Pros and Cons of Buy and Hold
20:26 | Triumph Over Turbulence
24:39 | Teamwork Makes the Dream Work
30:54 | Drumroll, Please…

Resources and Links:

[00:09:28] It's so lovely to just reflect back on these things. And you would have interviewed hundreds of people now over the years and [heard] so many different strategies, so many different geographies, so many different mindsets. What's resonated with you and what hasn't?

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this special episode I’ve turned the tables to share the details of my own property journey, with Salena Kulkarni asking the big questions. Not only will you hear about my property journey, you’ll also gain insight into Property Investory’s journey from passing thought to success, having passed 2,500,000 downloads since its inception in 2017.

Tyrone Shum:
Kulkarni and I swapped seats for this episode, where she fires the questions and I’m the one in the hot seat. While we initially met due to our shared love of property investing and discussing strategies, we’ve since formed a powerful friendship that involves a lot of property chat. While most of those discussions happen off-mic, this one’s a special treat for you (the listeners).

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:00:16] I have become a friend of Tyrone's over the last couple of years. And I've had the pleasure of getting to know him at a grassroots level. And he's such an incredibly sweet human being. 

  

[00:00:30] What Tyrone and I thought we would do on this podcast is actually swap seats. Meaning I'm going to actually put him under the spotlight. And really, after years of running the number one podcast for property in Australia, I want to really unpack what is it that he's learnt. What has the journey been like? And where is the direction that he's heading now? So Tyrone, welcome to your podcast.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:01:00] Thank you so much Salena, I appreciate you being the person who could actually interview me! I'm not usually the person who can get behind a podcast and just talk behind the scenes and stuff like that. I'm more the interviewer. So this is gonna be interesting to see what happens.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:01:18] I think a really good starting point is just to really get you to explain why you start[ed] the podcast in the first place. Like, what was the motivation?

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:01:30] That's a really good question. I look back at it, and I think back to the story. I think going back to 2015 [or] 2016, I was working in a full time job that I was actually loving, and really, really enjoyed. I was in the building industry and I was within the marketing department there as one of the digital managers there. 

 

[00:01:52] I really, really was also looking for a way out, as well, too. Because for me, even though I really loved what I was doing there, I was also looking at every week, and every month, my paycheck just hit the limit. And I wouldn't be able to earn any more than what I was because that's what happens when you're working full time. 

 

[00:02:10] The only way you can actually get an increase is to wait every year to get either a bonus or to increase by moving up a position. And that was not going to happen because my boss was my next position up anyway. So unless he [left]— and he'd been there for more than 20 plus years— it was very unlikely that he was going to retire anytime soon. And he was still young. 

  

[00:02:33] But what was really, really interesting was because I also was into a lot of podcasts. And I'd been listening to a lot of podcasts driving to work, day in, day out. [I'd] pop in an episode, or maybe sometimes two each morning and the afternoon driving back from home. 

  

[00:02:48] And I gained a lot of wisdom from a lot of the popular property podcasts out there. But the challenge that I faced was every single podcast I listened to was always about the ‘How to’, and really specific about people's property portfolios. They didn't really delve into the reasons why and also their story. And it didn't tell it in a narrative form, which is what Property Investory does differently. We tell the story rather than, 'Okay, let's just look at the facts and figures about how much your portfolio is worth, how many properties you've got, what's the rental income?' It's very technical, very specific to sort of their property portfolio. 

  

[00:03:22] [I] went, 'Okay, I like that, I'm learning a lot, but I'm not really resonating with a lot of these podcasts' because there was no sort of 'why' behind it. And I think the reason why a lot of these stories were not available is because no one actually really thought about doing it in that sense. 

  

[00:03:39] And because I was also listening to different podcasts such as Freakonomics, or How I Built This podcast, and they were all narrated with very, very successful entrepreneurs, successful businesses. Businesses like Virgin, like Richard Branson's, people from Microsoft, all those really, really successful people who have told their story. It really, really resonated with me. And it didn't necessarily talk about their numbers all the time, it talked about their journey to actually get from a small company to where it is, this multi billion dollar company that they've been there. 

 

[00:04:08] And that's what I wanted to portray in that sense, was to get that kind of story. And I thought, 'Oh, I'll just wait about a year or two and hope that someone might put it together'. But after waiting and waiting, and having that idea of a podcast in the back of my mind, and no one did it, I thought, 'All right, I'll give it a crack and see how I go'. 

[00:04:26] Because ultimately, I think what I wanted to achieve was to learn something from all this as well. Because, one, I have an interest in podcasting, but also, too, I have a strong interest in property. And I thought I'd combine those two together and see how that goes. 

  

[00:04:39] Because then at the same time, selfishly, I can learn something without having to go and seek all these experts and attend their seminars and attend all their courses and so forth. I could actually just invite them on and really ask them a lot of detailed questions that would be beneficial not only to me, but also to the audience that would be listening as well. 

  

[00:04:56] And hence, that's how it kind of started. I really procrastinated for literally a year without doing anything. I bit the bullet and just really jumped into it and started just reaching out to a lot of the past mentors I've had in property. People like Steve McKnight, Brendan Kelly, and so forth. 

  

[00:05:13] And they helped me be able to start that first initial interview. And I was really scared because one of my first interviews was with Chris Gray. He's quite well-known in the property space, and he's an expert in that sense. And I was sitting in a dark room with a microphone and nervously shaking, going, 'I wonder what Chris has got to share with me'. 

  

[00:05:36] He was such a lovely, lovely guest to have on the show. And it kind of put me at ease when I actually interviewed him. And that's kind of where it all started, having Chris Gray, then Steve McKnight, and so forth, all these well-known experts. 

 

[00:05:46] And it allowed me to be able to learn so much from that, because I was still at the beginning of my property investing journey. Even though I had invested into property, but not at the extent of all these well-known experts in the market. And learning from them, and then sharing it kind of opened up a whole new world to me. So that's the backstory behind how it got started.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:06:06] I love that. Well, if we describe or talk a little bit about your style, you've got a very long form style in general. You tend to go very deep in terms of people's backgrounds, their stories, their why. You have basically just sought out people who were experts, or property specialists in different strategies across the country. 

  

[00:06:34] I'm curious to understand two parts. Number one, what was your kind of criteria or filter for having people on? And then the second part would be what would you list out as your top three lessons?

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:06:52] I'll answer that first one. Whoever I could get on the podcast, I get them on.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:06:58] Okay, so no filter!

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:07:00] No filter! I mean, yeah, there wasn't really a filter. It was more about who would I know that was successful in property? That was the first thing. They would have to have some track record of building a property portfolio, because being a property podcast, you can't get anyone off the street and just interview [them] about their story. 

 

[00:07:18] I guess one of the main key things was that I wanted to tap into people well-known in the market, especially those experts who have been appearing in [the] media, [who] have shared their stories and are publicly well-known.

 

[00:07:31] But also, too, that they'll be able to share a great story. Because ultimately, we know a lot of successful investors who have large portfolios, but they're not feeling confident to hop on to a podcast. Because a lot of them, when I interview them, they feel a bit shy. They say to me, 'Look, this is my first time to do a podcast', but they've got, like, 20 or 30 properties in their portfolio. And I usually just say, 'It's just a conversation, we're just chatting, just learning a little bit about [each other]'. It's like you're talking to your next best friend and so forth. 

  

[00:08:00] That's what I really, really wanted to be able to share with people. All the people that I've interviewed, they're everyday people. Even though they are in the media, they may have a very successful portfolio and so forth, they also live very much of a normal life. The only difference is that they've just followed a very specific strategy, they've been very consistent with what they've done. And they've also set very, very strong goals. And they've just basically achieved those goals over a period of time. 

  

[00:08:26] Now, don't get me wrong, a lot of these well-known and successful property investors, they didn't have overnight success stories. They took many, many years. But it's what we see in the media, that they're portrayed [as] they've kind of had an overnight success story. And I think that's what I want to unpack for people.

  

[00:08:41] Property investing, or going through a property development journey, or whatever you do in property, takes time. And it is something that we all start to sort of unravel and see in these different stories. 

  

[00:08:52] So I guess, in that sense, it was really looking for people who have had successful stories. I've reached out to a lot of people who have been featured in magazines, property magazines in the past. And then from there, once I started getting a nice group of people on the podcast, once we hit about 50 or 60, the word started getting out and a lot of people start[ed] reaching out. 

  

[00:09:11] And then I guess the rest is history from there, because people start to know it, and they want to be featured on the podcast. So a lot of people reach out to us. And that's how we kind of started to get a lot of people coming on and sharing their stories as well, too. 

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:09:28] It's so lovely to just reflect back on these things. And you would have interviewed hundreds of people now over the years and [heard] so many different strategies, so many different geographies, so many different mindsets. What's resonated with you and what hasn't?

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:09:47] It's really interesting because I guess my journey has also evolved a lot over the last five years since I've been doing the podcast, and also in my property investing journey as well, too. And when I first started, I interviewed a lot of people who had built up a property portfolio. And because when we first started back in 2017, as you probably remember, that was sort of at another peak or boom cycle in the Sydney market, and probably across Australia as well, too. 

 

[00:10:16] A lot of people were literally just watching the growth of their properties that they'd bought maybe 5 [to] 10 years ago, literally doubled in price within a few months. Because that's what happens usually in a boom. It takes sometimes about 10 years for a cycle to happen. And you don't know at which point in that cycle when your price or property or values go up. 

  

[00:10:35] So what happened was, I interviewed a lot of people who are buy and hold property investors. I learnt a lot about those strategies. And one thing I didn't know when I first started was that you could actually buy property and, with the capital growth that you you gain from that investment or your portfolio properties, you can actually draw that equity out to go and buy another property, and that's how you leapfrog to the next one without having to necessarily save up for another deposit. 

  

[00:10:59] Because as everyone has told me, that was the one biggest thing— the first property is always going to be the hardest, because that's when you're saving for your first deposit. But once you get your first property, you get second and third, it becomes a lot easier. Because I realised that you're actually using the equity from the other property to leverage to move on leapfrog, and so forth. 

 

[00:11:17] And that's how a lot of property investors have been able to successfully buy 5 [or] 10 [or] 20 properties, because they've used leverage. And also the bank's money to be able to do that. Yes, there are additional costs and so forth to maintain and so forth. But if you actually do the numbers on the properties that you buy, particularly a lot of them that I've heard in the past have bought positive cash flow properties, they should be able to cover itself on a day to day maintenance perspective, and therefore you should just hold on to these properties. 

 

[00:11:44] I’ve interviewed a lot of those. And when you compare the history of, say, 10 [or] 20 years of properties back then when they were literally half the price, going back maybe $200,000 [or] $300,000 per property to now where it is over $1 million— you go, 'Wow, they could have bought 5 [or] 10 [or] 20 of these quite easily. Nowadays, I guess average property prices are anywhere in the vicinity of $1 million, your strategy has to change. Because not many people can afford to buy five to 10 of these $1 million properties. 

 

[00:12:12] So I think that was the biggest thing that I learnt back then, was that it's possible to buy a lot of these properties, buy and hold them, and then basically draw the equity out and reinvest it and leapfrog to [the] next property. 

  

[00:12:25] That was where I started learning a little bit more about property investment. And that was one of the big key 'Aha' moments. Because you go, 'Wow, if you get enough of these over a period of time, 10 [to] 20 years, it'll double in value'.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:12:36] But what I didn't know— and this is where I had some limiting beliefs— was the actual sourcing of funds. Because I was also interviewing a lot of people who are involved in property development as well, too. And I think I had a big, big fear back then going, 'Okay, if I actually go out and find a great deal, I'm worried that I will not be able to fund that particular deal'. 

 

[00:13:00] Because I had this limited mindset, going, 'I don't know anyone who actually has a few hundred thousand dollars who'd like to invest with me, and trust me, and then put that in'. And even if I [went] to my family [or] friends, I felt hesitant to do that. Because what happens if I got their money, put it into development, and it didn't work? All these kinds of fears that bubble up inside of me.

  

[00:13:20] Looking at it today, I guess you can change it from five years ago to where my mindset is, I totally believe that if the deal is so good, the money will just flow. And that's what one of the property developers who I've been working with [has said]. He has been really successful. He's done, like, $30 million plus worth of developments and has been extremely successful. 

  

[00:13:38] His one key mantra is if you're looking for money, if your deal stacks up really, really well, the money will follow. And it is so true, because I've experienced it so much, especially the amount of deals I've brought. As soon as I share it with people, people would just go, 'Wow, I gotta get in this'. And the money just flows in. I've done millions and millions of dollars worth of these already as it is. 

  

[00:13:58] That was one of the biggest fears that I had. And that's completely changed. Because over the course of discussing and speaking to successful property investors, successful property developers who've done multi billion dollar projects, it's that little thing that doesn't worry them that much. Because ultimately that will work. 

 

[00:14:17] What I think their mindset is, at the end of the day, when I've actually had these kind of longer conversations with them, is that key focus is 80% is in the mind. You need to actually focus on actually making the right mindset and ensuring that you fuel that mind with good, positive things that are related to what you want to achieve. 

  

[00:14:37] Fuel your goals, make sure you're always revising your goals, and just focus on trying to see how can you do that. Because rather than saying, 'No, this can't be possible', say, 'Why or how can you make it possible?' And that's one of the big things that I've also learnt across my journey as well.

Coming up after the break, Kulkarni dives into the deep end with a controversial question…

[00:15:04] When you interview as many investors as you have or experts as you have, some people's strategies are going to resonate and others are not. 

We discuss where investors may have the greatest success going forward…

[00:20:52] I believe we're entering a world that's slightly turbulent, or very turbulent, and that there's a lot of uncertainty. 

She encourages me to share my tried and trusted strategy.

[00:26:19] Over the last 12 to 18 months, you've really personally honed in on one particular strategy that you believe to be very effective in the market. 

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:
Kulkarni isn’t one to shy away from hard-hitting questions! Trying her hand at investigative journalism, she pries into my thoughts on the range of strategies I’ve heard over the years.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:15:04] When you interview as many investors as you have or experts as you have, some people's strategies are going to resonate and others are not. Have there been any instances where you've interviewed people and you've just thought, 'No, that doesn't make sense', or, 'I don't agree'? Obviously, in the role that you've had, you're there to showcase rather than commentate. So I'd love to get some insights and some secret squirrel insights.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:15:35] There's been plenty of times. I've interviewed over 300 guests already. So I don't know how many hours I've spent on the podcast. But it's been a lot. I could definitely say that. And from all those experiences, and speaking to so many people, I'd have to probably say in the first year or couple of years, I was more a showcase, and really just in the back and just listening and learning and so forth. And I didn't really commentate much, because I wanted the people to shine. 

  

[00:15:59] And even today, I don't really say too much, except if I do have something to add value to I will add into the conversation. But a lot of times I just sit back and let them just share their story. And most of the strategies I've heard have been making sense. And it is also, in my opinion, some of these strategies are very much what had been happening in the past that's worked. 

 

[00:16:22] And a lot of them still do work in that's happened in the past, such as a buy and hold strategy, or buy and renovate and hold strategy, etc. But I guess you also need to have a look at what's happened in the current state of the market and how property prices have also changed as well, too. And some of the strategies may not be as applicable as they were. 

  

[00:16:40] So I guess what kind of changed in my mindset was, because if I was to go ahead and start from today's day one and start buying and holding properties, yes, that will work. But that's going to take me anywhere between 10 to 20 years. I'm still young, but I'm saying if I if asked to actually implement a strategy like that, I'll be waiting forever. And I'll be having to continue to work to fund these kinds of properties. 

  

[00:17:06] Whereas having these further conversations with you, Salena, and then also looking at alternative strategies, it's opened up a whole new world where you can actually accelerate and instead of not necessarily just buy and hold, but you buy and hold and also invest in alternative strategies to better accelerate the growth in your portfolio. 

  

[00:17:22] So coming back to your question, one of the strategies that I still don't resonate too much is the buy and hold strategy. Because in order to be able to afford to buy that many properties, so you need 10 [to] 20 properties, it will take you a while to be able to build that up. 

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:17:37] And not only that, there's a lot of maintenance across it. I recently interviewed another investor who had over 30 plus properties. And it sounds glamorous, and he's making a lot of money, his property portfolio has doubled in value, he's got all the income coming in. 

  

[00:17:49] But he said to me, 'There's so many headaches, because you have to manage so many people, so many tenants'. It just becomes to the point where he actually had to have a full time property manager within his own business to be able to manage all those properties. 

  

[00:18:04] And even though [he's] successful and so forth, you have to also understand, people don't reveal all this behind the scenes of what happens in there. Because all these things that do happen is glamorous on the front— great to have a multi million dollar property portfolio, great to have all these tenants, all this income coming in— but when you look at the day to day operations of it, even though if you may have a property manager, every day, he'd have at least had two or three people calling about something that's broken. This is part of the maintenance of a property portfolio that you have to maintain. 

  

[00:18:34] Over the years, speaking to different types of experts and different investors, a lot of them have decided, 'Look, I'd rather put maybe my capital into say commercial property', which is where I started looking down further as well. Because one, you can have long releases, locking them in for longer term, you have stable income that's come in because you don't have such a high turnover. And also, on top of that maintenance is very low because once they run their own business, they're responsible for maintaining their properties as well, too. Ultimately, at the end of the day. 

 

[00:19:03] So I think it's a balance of both. And I don't know if I can say a specific point right now, but I have seen the ins and outs. And I've also seen the ins and outs of property development as well. And I've been through that process as well. It really, really depends on where your comfort level is, and also depends on your risk appetite. And furthermore how much time [you have]. 

  

[00:19:25] And I think that's the key thing. If I was single, without a family and I had all the time to myself, I could definitely go out and buy 20 [or] 30 properties. And a lot of the stories I've spoken to from that perspective, yes, that's what a lot of those investors have done. Because before they had their kids, had their family, they just went out and bought a lot of properties. But once they had children and family changes, all that kind of stuff happens— I'm not saying it's not impossible to do, but it is going to change and impact where your trajectory is. I'm a good example, because having kids and so forth like that also impacts and changes the way you can actually spend time to invest as well. 

 

[00:20:03] I've gone a long, roundabout way to sort of explain this, but ultimately, everyone has their own individual journeys. And I can't say that everyone's journey hasn't been impactful on me, because I've been able to gain all these insights into different people, and also be able to put into what I've come to where I am today.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:20:26] With the benefit of all the wisdom that you've gleaned, I'd love to ask you what your views are on the world ahead. And when I say that, you've sort of already highlighted that there are a bunch of strategies that maybe worked really well 20 years ago, maybe aren't working as well now, or that maybe are harder to execute on now. 

  

[00:20:52] I believe we're entering a world that's slightly turbulent, or very turbulent, and that there's a lot of uncertainty. Given all of the wisdom that you've gleaned over the last few years, where do you see investors having the greatest success in the years ahead? That might be a really hard question. But yeah, I'd just love your thoughts.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:21:17] The first thing, in my experience, and I'm going to glean back on what I've done in the past, as well, is education. Before jumping into any type of investment, before jumping into buying anything, or doing anything with regards to the property itself, I made sure that I put a lot of time and effort into learning first. 

  

[00:21:36] I think the biggest thing that I've learned over the last, say, five [to] 10 years of investing is that even look[ing] back at all the mistakes I've made, the biggest thing I didn't do was to actually do enough due diligence, and also understanding of how things work. Because if I had known all the information I had now, as I stand today, 10 years [to] 20 years ago, I would have done a completely different strategy and a different way of actually approaching things. 

 

[00:22:00] And it's because I didn't spend or put enough time into it. Because back then, being a uni student I was very limited in the funds. So I couldn't spend too much time and money in going to these courses and so forth. 

  

[00:22:12] But I think the key thing is to educate yourself. Because the thing is that it's easier to be able to go and speak to the people. There are plenty of people out there who [are] willing to sell your property. There are plenty of buyer's agents, there are plenty of courses that you can go to. And they will be able to offer you fantastic deals. They're everywhere around you. Every single day, there's an opportunity. I can guarantee you that, and I've seen that in my whole journey. 

  

[00:22:36] But the thing that makes it different for anyone is, if you don't have a clear strategy, and you don't have clear goals, you don't know what you're planning to do on that path of your property investment journey, it's very easy just to fall into that trap of just buying everything and anything that you see.

  

[00:22:50] It's like chasing after a shiny object. And I fall into that trap many times. I've seen that happen in everything I do. And I see something that looks amazingly brand new, it's shiny, and it's going to do wonders for my business, like a new tool and stuff. I'll go and buy it because it works really well. But then once you actually get over all that glee, and all that excitement, you realise, 'Oh, is that tool actually necessary? Do I really need that?' 

  

[00:23:12] It's the same thing with property. You've got to ask yourself, if you go and buy, say, 10 properties, and then after that you realise, 'Hold on, that's actually not the strategy that I was wanting, I actually want cash flow, but I don't want capital growth', then you've spent all that time doing it. 

 

[00:23:26] I think the key thing is, is one: Seek assistance and guidance from an educator who doesn't have any biased opinion about which type of property to buy, because that's the key thing. There are a lot of people out there educating and saying, 'I'll educate you, and I'll provide your wealth plan so forth. But I'll also recommend you to buy this property'.

 

[00:23:43] I will try [to] stay away from those type[s] of people. And I think that's where my experience comes in. Because at the end of the day, you want that particular educator to be just independent and advise. And by seeking that independent advice, you'll have a very unbiased point of view, and they'll look at what your situation is. So that's one thing, education. 

  

[00:24:02] Second thing is make sure you have a clear plan and goals set in place. If you have that, then laying out and implementing the plan is going to be very easy. Because if you don't know where you're heading, it's like driving down the road with your blinkers on and looking in the rearview mirror. You're definitely going to be crashing into something. 

  

[00:24:18] So to say the word properly, if you don't have a clear direction and vision, you're going to definitely hit into something and you'll get to a point going, 'Gosh, I don't know what to do next'. 

  

[00:24:26] And that's what usually happens when people buy five [or] six [or] 10 properties. And they hit a position where they can't borrow more money or they don't know what to do next. That's where the plan comes in place to be to help you move forward. 

Tyrone Shum: 

[00:24:39] And then I guess finally surround yourself with a really good team. That's key. And I always [have] been growing up in a family who's always relying on doing things themselves. My father always did his own stuff in his business. He never seemed to rely on too many people because he just thought that people weren't achieving what he wanted to achieve. 

 

[00:24:58] I've learnt the complete opposite before because the fact is that without the right people in place and trustworthy people that you've got to work with, you just can't do the property journey alone. Like, property itself has so many components. From managing the property to buying the property, to helping you sell the property, even to the stage of actually managing the finances, speaking to your accountant, speaking with the legal team— all that requires expertise and advice. 

 

[00:25:23] And if you can tap into the right, or really good, trustworthy resources like those people, then you really will be able to have a great foundation to be able to move forward. 

 

[00:25:34] And I can tell you, between Selena and myself, we have a very strong team around us that actually, we go back to trusted advisors, and also very, very good people who can actually provide us with different perspectives. Because ultimately, it'd be your choice or your decision at the end of the day when you actually go out to invest and not the people that you actually rely on those. Yes, you get advices. But ultimately, you've got to take that advice and make your own decision. So that's something I think is key before you jump in and start investing and buying any property.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:26:07] That was gold, Tyrone, I really appreciate and agree with everything that you're saying there. I think just a last question that I've got, which I think would be of great interest to everyone listening, is: Over the last 12 to 18 months, you've really personally honed in on one particular strategy that you believe to be very effective in the market. 

  

[00:26:30] I wonder if you could just explain what it is and why that's where you landed. Given everything that you've ingested over the last few years with all the strategies and all the experts, you've become [a] master at one particular strategy. And I'd love to get some insight into that. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:26:48] Let me tell you the story behind it and how I got there, because that will sort of frame why I've gone down [this route]. Because I can easily tell you what the strategy is. And people will go 'Yeah, that sounds really great and sexy and all', but it's not as simple as that. 

  

[00:27:01] Because you've got to get to that point. And hence the reason why every interview I've done, I actually wanted to actually go back to where people have started. Because then it actually shows all the learning lessons and reveals how they got there. Because it's great to get to where I am now. And I'm really happy where I am, I'm in a really good place. But to get to that point took a lot of time. 

 

[00:27:01] I remember when I was much younger, and I think probably a good five to 10 years, I was reading through [the] Rich Dad, Poor Dad book by Robert Kiyosaki, which I think a lot of people have heard. And the key thing that resonated with me is to remember about using the compounding effect, or compound interest. 

 

[00:27:38] What I tried to do was go out to the market and just try and find a place where I could just put my money and try and get a 10% return. If I could get 20% it would be fantastic, which is what Robert says in his book, sometimes it's possible to get that over in the States and so forth. 

  

[00:27:53] But everywhere I looked, I couldn't find it. I only found, like, 5% [or] 6% or so forth. Interestingly enough, after a period of time, I found another fund, you can say, which at that time was fantastic, because it was providing about 10% return per annum. So I invested into that, just put maybe about $10,000 or something like that, when I was younger, back in university days, which was a lot of money for me. And thinking, 'Yep, great, I'll get a monthly payment and also get the principal back at the end of the term', which was a 12 month term. 

  

[00:28:27] Unfortunately, after about three months that fund went bust. It was actually a development that was a shopping centre out towards western Sydney this way. And unfortunately, yeah, I lost all my money in that one, too. 

  

[00:28:39] So it is possible to find the deals, but you've also got to look around and do your due diligence. Because I basically was just sold on the fact that it was a high return, but I didn't do my research enough. And that's where I kind of got stuck. 

  

[00:28:53] Now going forward, maybe a decade later, I was doing the podcast, I was introduced to a lot of guests, and as you know, interviewing so many people you meet so many potential opportunities as well, too. And I work with coaches and so forth. And they would always refer me to people. And my trusted coach or advisor, she actually referred me to a good friend of hers, and also a very, very well-known, successful developer in the space, he was actually a renovator/developer. 

 

[00:29:27] And she said, 'Look, it'd be great for you to team up with him because he's got expertise in the development space. He knows what to do to subdivide land, do renovations on houses, and then sell and so forth. You've got a fantastic group of lenders or investors who are ready to put money into joint venture deals'. And because we did have a lot of people who are interested in actually doing JVs [joint ventures] I basically put the deal together and I had a JV partner myself to facilitate it. And then the developer to actually do the subdivision. 

  

[00:29:57] And this first development was my first foray into property development itself. Like, literally to buy a property, subdivide one into two and then renovate the front. And this was up in Palmwoods in Queensland. 

  

[00:30:10] It all started really, really well, really rosy and the investor was very happy because he was getting updates and so forth. And everything was running on track and on time. This was back in 2019, April 2019, to be exact, that's when we purchased the property. And it was anticipated to be all done by about nine months, maximum 12 months or so. 

  

[00:30:28] We got to about month six [or] month seven or so. And we started hitting some roadblocks because the council was delaying the subdivision, getting all that kind of paperwork done was just taking a lot longer. And by about month nine to about month 10, we actually had the property finished, renovated, minimal costs, and we were looking to anticipate to make a nice profit on top of what we thought the profit was, an extra $100,000. 

[00:30:54] And because the market was booming up there, it was looking fantastic. We thought, 'Great, we could definitely sell and put [it] on the market'. But due to all the delays in council, we couldn't get our titles and so forth. And by about month 12, which was April 2020— I don't know if I should put drumroll in here, but everyone I think knows— COVID, the pandemic hit. 

 

[00:31:13] Unfortunately, as soon as we put it on the market, basically, it just went like crickets. Absolutely no one actually wanted to come and see it because everyone was in lockdown, everyone was scared, and they didn't know what to do. 

  

[00:31:24] So that particular property just sat on the market. And we literally took it off just for a couple months just to see what would happen. And everyone wasn't even sure what was going to happen. 

  

[00:31:32] So in the end, after about an extra 12 months later, we literally sold that property back in April 2021. We didn't make any money on that, as a developer and a joint venture partner, that joint venture myself. The investor got his money back because we had a fixed return. So we said, 'No matter what would happen we would pay you regardless, so if we have to put money out ourselves, we would'. Luckily we didn't have to, still a bit of money left, and we paid out whatever the return was. 

 

[00:31:57] That kind of explained to me, 'Wow, anything can happen in development'. And especially with a pandemic that just threw a spanner in the works, it changed the trajectory of how this potential property development could work. 

  

[00:32:08] Now, luckily, at that same point in time, because I was not doing just one deal, I was doing multiple deals at the same time, I was able to jump into another particular deal, which was down in Victoria, in Rowville. And this was also referred to me by my coach who offered me an investment opportunity to jump in there at about November 2020. 

  

[00:32:36] [At] that point in time, he said to me, 'Look, you just need to put in a couple of hundred thousand dollars', which we did with another investor. And the reason why he needed that money at that point in time was because one of his relatives unfortunately passed away. It just happened all of a sudden, and he was literally selling in two weeks time. And he needed money very quickly. So I was able to pull that together and help him. 

  

[00:32:57] So that was an interesting one. I went into that one, one into four lot subdivision down in Rowville, Victoria. And after that period of time, about six months or so, the developer called me. And guess what he said to me, around about April 2020?

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:33:14] What's that? 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:33:16] He said to me, 'Look, Tyrone, I know the pandemic's hit, it's a challenging time. But I've got a fantastic offer for you. Another developer wants to buy us out'. And he said, 'Look, I'll pay you whatever, we were supposed to be promised for 12 months, I'll pay you that, in April', which was literally six months [away]. 

 

[00:33:32] And true to his word, he came back to me and we got literally paid out at that point in time. And guess what, that was my first deal that was successful, that was [in the] alternative investment space where I just let my money out and I got a fixed return in basically a lending space. 

 

[00:33:47] So at that point in time, I could see the two differences between doing property development versus doing just lending money out as a lender, or as an investment, and just having a fixed return. Which gave me more confidence to say, 'Okay, I'm going to fix my term, rather than staying for 12 months [or] 18 months or whatever the development is, I'm only going for that short period of time'. 

[00:34:06] And that's kind of where it led me into this path of looking at alternative strategies. And since then I've done multiple of these, I've done actually about 15 or 20 of these type[s] of deals over the last almost 18 months as well, too. And it's been phenomenally, phenomenally, organically grown so successfully that as I said to you at the end of the podcast, if a deal's so good people will come. The money will just come.

  

[00:34:31] And that's literally what's happened. The organic growth of it, I haven't done really any promotion except just share it with my database and share it on the podcast, things have turned out phenomenally well. 

 

[00:34:43] So that's kind of where the background story is where I've landed to and now all my focus is at this point in time is to find deals that make up really really good returns and just keep growing the capital, and keep compound[ing] that capital. And if you can do this every six months [or] every 12 months in a very good return [of] anywhere in the vicinity of 20% upwards, you can grow your capital very, very quickly, which is what I've managed to do. And in a very short space of time, I've got a lot of my capital deployed, generating income and working very, very hard for me.

Salena Kulkarni:   

[00:35:20] What do you see as the future for you personally? Like with this podcast, is it going to change shape? How has the last 18 months shaped your worldview of wealth and wealth building?

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:35:36] I've always been true to the podcast in the sense that we had a vision that we initially started to say everything that we do is to help and inspire, and to provide amazing stories of property investors to the listeners. That's always been the goal. And my goal was to impact a million listeners, which I've done already, which is fantastic. 

  

[00:35:56] And for them to be able to hear amazing stories. I, as I said to you, at the beginning, I did it because I was really keen and had a strong interest to learn from others. Now, for me, it's all about sharing amazing stories that people can also get involved in, and just even get started on their journey. 

  

[00:36:13] Because as we know, there's only a very small percentage of the Australian population that are investing into property. And even though property is sort of a pastime, a lot of people like to talk about it, not many people are very, very knowledgeable in it. And even though there's a lot of experts in the market [who] say they're good at it, there may be also some other people who are not so good at it. 

  

[00:36:32] I just wanted to show to people through real conversations, real stories, that a lot of people have succeeded. But also you can learn from the mistakes and lessons and at the same time, maybe leapfrog ahead, so you don't have to make those same mistakes. 

 

[00:36:48] And that's what I've learnt. I was initially buying a lot of property when I was starting, and subleasing, and so forth like that. But that strategy didn't work for me, because I was only focused on cash flow. But now what I'm learning about is to focus on building the capital, which is future generational wealth, and then eventually turning that, I guess, capital base into future income, which is also what I'm doing as well, too. 

 

[00:37:09] So that's kind of the future of what I'm doing at this point in time is to continue to do that. Build up a nice base. And then first and foremost, for me, is really support my family and ensure that they're financially stable. And then to help all the listeners and share more and more these kind of stories. And I'd love to have more guests on the show. That won't change. I just love what I do in terms of the podcast.

Thank you to Salena Kulkarni for joining me to discuss my personal investment journey and the podcast’s past, present, and future on this special episode of Property Investory.