Sue Wilhite 00:00

Barb Horn, MBS, is a certified alchemical hypnotherapist, inspirational speaker, trainer, and levity and laughter coach. She is the founder of the All Embracing Change Community, which supports individuals in a journey to uncover and claim their wisdom, voice and power, which can be found at allembracingchange.com. Dr. Randy Crutcher is a psychologist, personal coach, organizational consultant and author. He is a master trainer for the passion pest facilitator courses, working globally to support professionals helping people get clarity about their passions, and purpose in order to leave more fulfilling lives and transform our world. Randy and Barb are the co-authors of the Divine Dog Wisdom Cards and Guidebook and Oracle Wisdom Deck designed to reflect the truth in our hearts, using the honesty of dogs, and how they teach us about life. Dogs are naturally forgiving, joyful, loyal and present. Please join me in welcoming Barb Horn and Dr. Randy Crutcher. Wow, what a great intro. I am so thrilled to have Randy and Barb here on the show. I'm so looking forward to hearing about the deck and their story, and that was your formal bio, right? So tell me who you really are. Tell me what you're really about and tell me who Barb and Randy are?

Dr. Randy Crutcher 01:55

Thanks, Sue. What listeners, viewers might not know about me is that I'm a man who really values close relationships and I have very close intimate relationships with both men and women and I have a wonderful, wonderful life partner and business partner of three years, my wife, Karen, and our work and creativity comes right out of our passions and our shared interests. Barb and I have been friends for a long time, and I can also share that I'm often perceived as a man who is not afraid to express his feminine side, uncomfortable and at home with that part of me and help others really bring those elements together within themselves.

Sue Wilhite 02:46

Yeah. What about you, Barb?

Barb Horn 02:48

Well, some people may not know about me is I have a persona of I come across strong, I'm bold, I'm edgy, I'm funny but what I don't really expose and share and I'm trying to be more vulnerable that way is that that is not my experience of myself. Most of the time I navigate this Grand Canyon landscape of self-doubt, am I enough, will people like what I create, and I often struggle in that but I also laugh at it because I think that's where a lot of the creative tension comes from my creative process is navigating that. Here's how people experience me but here's what's really going on inside and how much of you share and so this is a great venue to say that's really how I feel about myself, no matter what you're experiencing for me, and I think it's a human condition.

Sue Wilhite 03:41

Right, and artists, I hear this all the time from creative people. I hear this all the time from executives. I come across this really incredibly stunning, dynamic, powerful person who's done all this great stuff, and I'm going inside, right. We've all got our inner children who are not necessarily feeling like it's okay to come out and play

Barb Horn 04:12

Exactly. Exactly.

Sue Wilhite 04:16

It is, and blessings on you, Randy for being open to your feminine side. We so need more guys to do that, to be okay with that, to know that that's a source of power.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 04:33

Thank you so much. I'm also called a man's man, because I really have been involved a lot in men's groups and men's gatherings and have led men's vision quests and maybe talk more about that.

Sue Wilhite 04:48

Oh, yeah. So you both know that this show is organized around the hero's journey from Joseph Campbell. So the way that the show goes is we talk about your ordinary beginning, although I don't think anybody's ordinary. We all have our beginnings, and then there's a call to action and the call to action, for the purposes of this program, is going to be what brought out your wonderful deck that we're going to talk about later and what triggered that, and what was the reason that you felt like you needed to go through the work of creating a deck. I will say, as a deck creator, and knowing a lot of deck creators, this is way harder than just writing a book. This is a process, and so the call to action, there needed to be something that was really, trumpets and tymphany that brought you into this. Then there's, of course, the challenges and obstacles that every creative person goes through. As I said, deck creation is somewhat of a challenge, all in of itself and then there's the coming back home, where you've changed, you're different, you're now a deck creator, or deck creators and it's different, you now have that as part of your idea of yourself, of who you are in the world and so this is something different and how does that land with the people who knew you before? How does that show up in your new ordinary life at work? So let's just jump into it and talk about the ordinary beginning. How did this all start?

Barb Horn 07:01

For me, it all started decades. I'm a river ecologist, and for 30 years, I've been helping students and citizens in my state job, save and restore and advocate for their rivers, doing the science all along, and I became a scientist and a river ecologist, because in my high school, when I sat down with my high school counselor, and they say, what do you want to do when you grow up? I said, I want to be a counselor, I want to be a psychiatrist, and he looked at me and said, don't do that. There's no money in that. At that age, I didn't know about projection or anything like that. So I said, okay, I'll go do my next love, which was rivers. Exactly. All along my river career, which has been so, so rewarding, working with people in their passions and rivers, I've been doing this side work of healing hearts and my slogan for my program became protecting rivers is not a matter of rivers. It's a matter of the heart. So I think my ordinary beginning is I became a scientist. But all along, I never left that passion of really helping people and healing hearts and that's kind of the impetus when I came to this conclusion where I can heal more rivers by helping people here and heal relationships on the planet by helping people heal their hearts. So they need to call for me to start really doing something different, like the divine dog deck. So Randy. 

Dr. Randy Crutcher 08:41

Well, it's so interesting, the ordinary life, that whole concept. I've always rejected that.

Sue Wilhite 08:50

I don't blame you. I have too.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 08:53

Even though I was a good boy, and conformed and did well, and I navigated the school system, as matter of fact, I'd spent a lot of my life in the school system, all the way through teaching college, going through degree programs and whatnot, but I still felt as though my life was fairly nonlinear. I began as an educator under a grant as a men's health educator that's I referred to some of my work with men. But that was in my 20s. I began doing that work and opening one of the country's first men's centers for men's health and wellbeing. From there, I started working with more women and worked with planned parenthood, I was education director there and from there, I started working more with college students teaching psychology, sociology courses, more of what sounds ordinary. But then I was really disaffected with academia and some of the institutional goals and not working the talk. So I started working with young people and former gang members in conservation corhots and just felt more passion and more aliveness in that learning process where they were learning by doing, not just sitting in a classroom. From there, as I mentioned, working with men and counseling groups, and I did create a Men Who Better Intervention Program Group counseling for Men Who Better one of the first also in the country and worked with across the country as a consultant through those programs. Another hop, skip and jump to where I am now I'm actually coaching counselors and coaches to utilize what's called the passion test, which is a really powerful simple tool, helping people get greater clarity about what really makes their heart sing, what gives them their highest sense of purpose, and then to live that. So we trained facilitators, my wife and I, in a four-day course, to use that tool as a standalone tool work in their practice. So that's kind of my work dimension trajectory. All of the menswear was all Randy work, by the way, and that's why I was so passionate about that. How do I really embrace my full humanity as we spoke earlier, and, navigate this pretty careless world around what a man is supposed to be and supposed to do.

Sue Wilhite 11:24

Wow. So those are your not quite so ordinary beginnings. What was, what I call the boot in the back. Oh, wait, they call it a call to action. That's so gentle.

Barb Horn 11:43

Yeah, right, right.

Sue Wilhite 11:45

Somebody picks up the phone, hey, you want to create a deck? No, that's not the way it works.

Barb Horn 11:51

No, no. I call it a boot stamping me down into my grave.

Sue Wilhite 11:56

Oh, wow, really powerful.

Barb Horn 12:00

Yeah. So I think what catalyzed me is I was cruising along and this sort of parallel life and in my 40s, I started to have some health issues. I had a couple near death experiences on rivers no less, and at work, I created drama. I can look back on it now and I created drama and crisis about my identity and value because I wasn't valuing myself and it was extremely because work and I was so successful in this career. It was my identity, it was my everything. So it was just being challenged, and I was physically challenged and I just had to stop and the whole world around me, it was around the 9/11, to Bush administration, not to get political, whatever everybody else feels, for me, I just was feeling extremely depressed, extremely hopeless and I knew I had to change my energy, I knew I had to do something different because I was just putting out fear in the same vibration. So I had my coming to Jesus moment, if you will, my dark night of the soul physically, emotionally, security, job-wise, I actually got transferred, which meant I lost my job. I just felt like raw, and I said, I got to change. I got to change. What I changed really was my relationship with myself that gave me this foundation to actually believe that I could create something like the Divine Dog Wisdom Deck, and not going down that rabbit hole very long, I think it's human to go down that rabbit hole, but it's how you come out and when you choose to come out.

Sue Wilhite 13:40

Exactly, exactly. Identity it's a huge part of what I do in my work is figuring out what your identity really is.

Barb Horn 13:50

On my birth chart, that's where my work is, to help number one. So I learned a lot about that.

Sue Wilhite 14:01

Randy, what about you?

Dr. Randy Crutcher 14:03

So really, I recognize now in retrospect, that my first midlife crisis was in my early 30s. I had mentioned that I had done this work with family violence and working with Men Who Better and all of a sudden one day, it was like a plug had been pulled and my passion for it had just drained away and I'm thinking to myself, wait a minute, this is my professional identity, I created these programs. I was a real pioneer in this movement. How could I not be interested? How can I not be passionate about this anymore? Really why later on I found the valuable tool that I wish I'd had earlier in life with passion test. Anyway, so I went to a psychic. I had my first psychic reading and in that reading, all those years ago, I remember it was said that, oh you will be writing in your late 50s. In your 60s, you'll be writing books, you'll be publishing it. At that time I loved writing, I was passionate about writing from grade school on and over the course of time in my professional career I was writing professionally and for some magazine, articles and essays, always letters to the editor and yet, it wasn't happening. So all of a sudden, in my late 50s, another psychologist came to me with a manuscript, a rough draft of a, what would become a popular positive psychology book about passion. He said, well, this could go somewhere, but I think it would really go somewhere if you got interested and that we got interested and what do you think? So I read this pile of papers, that's all it was and I go, wow, there's really something here, but it needs a lot of work. So I dove in, and I go, okay, so I can reorganize this thing, I can rewrite this thing, I can make my contributions and in my experience, this could really be something and all of a sudden, I realized, oh, that psychic reading. Oh, this is it, this is emerging and the process has been slow. It's been several years. But this book is ready to launch soon. It's called The Passion Principle; Companion Volume To the Passion Test Book, and I go, okay, well, I'm an avid reader, have been all my life and I did that same thing that we do to ourselves where we go, who am I to write a book? There's so many good books out there and a zillion books and psychology books and now the self help books is like 10 million self help books. What's the point? So I constantly had to struggle with that and just push that mindset aside and go, I have a unique contribution to make and a stamp to put on this that no one else can offer. Mark came along while I was in that process and we had this idea; dogs turned us on to this idea of creating our first wisdom of cards.

Sue Wilhite 17:26

So tell me a little bit more about that. How did the divine dogs start wagging their tails and nosing you to the door?

Dr. Randy Crutcher 17:37

Okay, Barb is going to take it from here.

Barb Horn 17:40

Well, when we get together, you can probably imagine we have all kinds of philosophical discussions about what's going on in the world and what's going on in our own hearts and we were out skiing one day, housing a bunch of dogs, my dogs and other dogs, the illustrator's dogs in snow in Colorado, and somebody made the comment about this little beagle, there's no way this beagle could run around in the snow and by the end of our little trek, they had done twice as many miles as we had. While we were out watching them and laughing and observing their behavior, we were in this mode of how much do they teach us, how much nature teaches us, how much animals. I mean, let's do a creative project together. We've been bouncing off each other. We're both Gemini, so we just have all these words going on between us. 

Dr. Randy Crutcher 18:25

All four of us. 

Barb Horn 18:27

You're really interviewing four people here. Then he said, let's do it. We love dogs. I love my dog. Always loved dogs. Let's just go for it. Let's play, let's have fun, see where it goes. So we committed the next year to getting together like every other month at each other's houses and just playing with words, then playing with pictures and images and channeling. We first came up with this list of what we wanted to tell the world. But then as we worked with the dogs, they're like, no, that's not us. No, you need to say this. So then that iterate process with the photos, the images, the art and the words and the phrases it all came together and it really felt like dogs were saying another gift from dogs if you will. Here's the deck

Sue Wilhite 19:14

Nice, nice, and you won last year.

Barb Horn 19:20

Really a surprise, a blessing, so much gratitude. Really a surprise.

Sue Wilhite 19:26

Yeah. Congratulations for that, you winning the product of the year and did you also win the donation or the personal?

Barb Horn 19:41

I think it was the inspirational product category.

Sue Wilhite 19:44

Inspirational product category, and for this wonderful deck. So tell me some of your favorites from the deck and then we'll get on to some of the challenges in the coming home again.

Barb Horn 20:01

Do you want us to hold up the card? 

Sue Wilhite 20:03

Sure.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 20:04

Yeah. Well, I can. Actually, it's a sweet picture. It's a dog, who is busted out the bottom part of a fence board and it's sticking its head out. 

Barb Horn 20:17

Well, the phrase is be bold. I'm just giving you the set of phrase, is be bold.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 20:21

Phrase, each of the cards as a phrase, a theme, an image, a phrase, and breakthrough is be bold. So though both Barb and I are more on the extroverted side, we have a very clear, introverted side that we don't want to necessarily be exposed all the time to the world. So this card is a summons for me and I think both of us to just really step out. We have what it takes to offer a tremendous gift and now we're getting some external accolades that really help with that process to reward and reinforce that being bold and taking a step forward into the publishing world really was the right thing to do.

Barb Horn 21:08

For me, we were very witty. So there's a lot of puns and when you open the guidebook, it says what it means if you fetch the card today, and then it has a section another bone to chew on, and it's filled with tons to bring some deep stuff lighter levity. I think a lot of the healing arts have missed out on using laughter and levity. We needed to be serious for a long time and now it's time to bring levity back. In fact, my tagline is learn to love, love to live, live to laugh. So along those lines, a lot of times when you give this deck to somebody, they're like, what is it, a playing card deck? So we definitely included a wild card, and the Joker. So I'm such the humorous that one of my favorite cards is the Joker, and it's a picture of a prairie dog and when we were researching these photos and these images, you'd be amazed hear it out there TV world amazed at the number of people who have prairie dogs as pets, have them on leashes and dress them up in dog clothes.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 22:16

It's true.

Sue Wilhite 22:16

I'm really amazed. I've never heard of this in my life.

Barb Horn 22:20

The tagline is, the Joker card is things are never as they seem, which I love in my own hero's journey because we take everything personally, we take everything literally and that's so suffering cause and it really depersonalizes that from it, things are never as they seem and you need to ask and you do inquiry etc. So that was one of my favorite cards. Then I think another one that symbolizes my own journey here because the breakthrough card is a really great deck that symbolizes our process is significance. A little dog between the big dogs and the tagline is, you be you, and it's so fun to have people draw these and that as you know, oracle decks are magical. They're just right person when they get this and they're like, in that little spark of a moment, they're like oh, I do matter. I am significant. It gives me chills when I even talk about it. If you feel that energy happen and that's what we feel like we're planting little seeds all over the place.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 23:28

But then on the other hand, we have unlikely cards. I mean, how many oracle decks have a boredom card? 

Sue Wilhite 23:36

Nice 

Dr. Randy Crutcher 23:39

When we talk about this, we're talking about both the shadow and the light aspects to positive and negative some people call it so that people get a full picture of humanity. What's going on in their lives is both forces that creative tension between the shadow and the light so they can work with both of those aspects.

Barb Horn 24:00

It us challenging Sue because we have shame, we have guilt in the deck, we have lust, and dogs don't shame but we shame them. Bad dog no biscuit. I think it's a gift. We really had to argue with this creative process and our publisher and things about no one wants to pull that. I'm like, well, how can it be an oracle deck if it's part of humanity.

Sue Wilhite 24:13

Right, you're purple washing.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 24:32

It's not just Brene Brown that gets to talk about shame. I mean, her pioneering work allowed people to really bring this out and talk about bring it to light.

Barb Horn 24:42

To transform it. 

Dr. Randy Crutcher 24:43

So we're really pleased we're already getting reports and stories from HR professionals, teachers, counselors, and therapists. There was actually a feature story in the Santa Fe, New Mexico newspaper about a therapist using the cards with their client and how that was a bridge to really digging deeper into the issues, starting on a light note with the whimsical nature and the lovability of dogs.

Sue Wilhite 25:10

Right, right. Wonderful. So talk about some of those challenges since we've talked about some of the shadow stuff, what came up for you as some of your bottom three challenges or bottom two challenges? You can't say your top challenges, right?

Dr. Randy Crutcher 25:32

Right. That makes me think about wallering and you're out on the bottom of it.

Barb Horn 25:37

Our penultimate challenges.

Sue Wilhite 25:39

There we go.

Barb Horn 25:42

I love that word. One of the, I think, next challenges for me, it really challenged security and my relationship with money, and my money story, because as you know, who knew when you create a product that you're going to be in this marketing world, this publishing world, and you're going to be bleeding money, and you'd like to invest in it. No one told you that was part of the creative process. So it really challenges both of our money stories to the degree I actually created a little course or myself and my clients on just that. So security and my beliefs about who I am and reclaiming that and really accepting my new role of an archetype of a healer, of a speaker, really, really embracing those roles that were laid out that I played with in my career, but didn't really embrace. So not a new story. But nevertheless, my story and appreciating everybody out there who goes through it, the pain of it.

Sue Wilhite 26:47

Yeah. It's a mess.

Barb Horn 26:49

Total mess, oh, my God, a mess.

Sue Wilhite 26:51

Oh, the creative mess.

Barb Horn 26:57

Yeah, it's kind of how I cook in the kitchen. Very similar.

Sue Wilhite 27:01

Randy, did you have a penultimate challenge?

Dr. Randy Crutcher 27:05

Yeah, and it'll sound like there's another crossroads with my good buddy Barb here and I have a history of working with some large institutions, but never made that commitment to a career that would provide me lasting prestige and insecurity and whatnot, that that rebel in me I was talking about before I want to do what I want to do and the way I want to do it. When you have your own classroom, you can do that. But you're still working within this larger structure that has its restrictions and conformities. So it's not always been an easy choice to be an entrepreneur, but it has been a choice. Is this what somebody said the other day to me, it really rang true, the entrepreneurs challenge is what's called the risk tolerance factor and so what this does, for me is similar like Barb was sharing is this brings up my fears of inadequacy, my vulnerability, my sense of worth, and I mentioned that earlier about who am I to create this? Well, I'm over that. But the challenge now is, how do we have to start a little publishing company to launch this product and the new ones that are coming down the line. So it's like all the demands of making that company viable and it's just a great success to not go bankrupt, it's just a great success. So, with all of the new things I've tried, they've usually been grants and projects and programs and all that stuff. They've been, some of them cutting edge. This is really new to me. This is really new to territory, and as I said, does bring up anxiety, fear, depression, hopelessness. I mean, those are readily available along with all the joy and delight and fun that Barb and I have when we're in our little creative tunnel together. 

Sue Wilhite 29:12

So how was it for you now that you've published the deck and now that you've won some awards for the deck, how has that changed you? How does that happen when you are interacting with people in your lives, who maybe there's your close family, who've been in the trenches with you, I'm sure. But then there's other folks that now you're coming back to them and going, hey, not only am I an author, but I've created this deck, and they're going to have a different response to you now.

Barb Horn 29:49

Yeah. So for me, it's been an interesting path because I'm still working. I'm two years out from retiring and now I bring this of course, with a whole different energy to my job for me to say in this scientific state agency job, I'm an author. Look what I did this woo woo product and yet all of these people I work with, it's a hunting and fishing agency. They love their dogs, they love their animals, and they do the dog thing, they go. So I love that moment there where do you know what an oracle deck is? No, they're like, do you play poker with it? I have had people say that, but slowly I'm letting people know I'm moving towards this because it's a part of my career, if you will, my gift in the world that I haven't shared with people. I work mostly with citizens and teachers and students in the community. So I've been bringing this energy, actually, to my job actually showing it and letting them know that I'm leading. So it's been a process of birthing all of this and simultaneously to letting go and stepping back and watching me how that feeds my ego or not, because it's so easy to get accolades over there. But except that to leave your legacy, you've got to step down to let someone step in and I've been doing that very consciously the past few years and allowing to be a mentor, to be a true mentor, and really let go and let it be however folks want it to turn out to be. So that's been a very prevalent dynamic along with my husband, of course, has been a huge foundation. He's 15 years older than me. So He's now retired and I'm doing, in essence, two careers, and he would love for me to be done with both. But he has been the rock, he's been our biggest fan. 

Dr. Randy Crutcher 31:54

He cooks for us on a weekend.

Barb Horn 31:57

He cooks for us, he takes care of us, he's been our cheerleader, he's an editor, and it's challenged our own financial insecurity situation. So like I said, we had to do kind of our own money healing, which has been a side gift. So you're right, it's changed landscape at home and I am really looking forward to and all I get to do is this wonderful challenge of the creative process where it's filled with joy and hopelessness and despair, and more creativity. Now, it's mine, I don't have to worry about anybody else.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 32:33

Well, and answering that question for me, so I have to begin at home, actually, because my home is my office, and my spouse is one of my other business partner in my other business, and cash, my great good fortune is that my wife Karen, we've been together over 30 years, has seen me through this new cycle, this new hero's journey at this stage of life, and she supported me fully in this and help really supported me stepping into this in a more full fledged way to this identity as a published author and the new rhythms and patterns that it creates in our lifestyle, even how we do our home life and then my emotional swings have been not always easy for either of us. Then with Barb and I, adding this business, you never know what is going to happen when you add this kind of element to a good friendship. It could make, it take a break it, it could do whatever to it. It's been foundation of loving each other, and being in this larger group and community of loving friends. So it actually became the best platform possible, given our creative natures and our senses of humor and everything. 

Sue Wilhite 34:05

Lot's of humour is like the saving grace, as far as I'm concerned, for any relationship.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 34:11

Absolutely, if we can't laugh, and this is what lightenup.biz, our company is all about, messages, but with this lightness that helps people embrace and accept this insight that is coming up for them. But I just wanted to say that so Barb, and I added really different patterns of interaction. Around now we have deadlines, we have production, we've got these dresses and Barb has been a fantastic partner in all of this. We can have these heart to heart talks about what it's like for us. They get back to business and that's invaluable. Just so incredible. Then my men's group, they have really been great. One of them is an award winning corporate package designer and he produced our Beta deck. 

Sue Wilhite 35:04

Nice.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 35:05

Got to the mass printing process, and was there for me all the way and another guy in my men's group he was really very involved and committed to our crowdfunding, which was our presales campaigns that allowed us to generate the funds to print the first printing.

Stephen Cooney 35:22

Wow. Nice. So, what's next on the horizon?

Dr. Randy Crutcher 35:30

Oh, fine, we get to talk about that.

Barb Horn 35:33

What's next? Well, our feet are in the fire. So we're continuing to learn the publishing marketing world and embracing that and just truly embracing. It reminded me of pulling up a card, endurance, and it's a picture of a dog chasing their beloved ball, keep your eye on the ball. So we've been trying to do that, keep our focus and what we are in the middle of our next oracle deck, which is going to be the cosmic cat deck in the oracle.

Sue Wilhite 36:04

Cool.

Barb Horn 36:05

Which pleases many of our dogs, our fans, when we said we're doing the cat deck, they're like, oh, we like the dog deck, but finally, you're doing the real one.

Sue Wilhite 36:17

Yeah, and all cats will agree with you. I have mixed household myself.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 36:23

The mixed household, yeah.

Barb Horn 36:24

We understand that cat whispers, if you will, are a little more picky and finicky. So we're trying to consult the right cats.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 36:34

Oh, there are. There some that refused to purchase the dog deck. They are there so rigid, but that means we get to hold their paws to the fire when it comes out?

Sue Wilhite 36:47

Yes.

Barb Horn 36:48

You're catalyst for our future.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 36:57

Yeah. There are no end to cat plans.

Sue Wilhite 37:01

No, no. I was going to say, is it going to be more successful by a whisker?

Dr. Randy Crutcher 37:10

I like that. We haven't used that one yet. Thank Sue.

Sue Wilhite 37:13

Yes, or will it come in at the tail end?

Dr. Randy Crutcher 37:17

Oh, see, it's easy to do.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 37:24

Well, I am a lifelong gameme cieste for those people that don't know what that is, that is the official Latin name for a clunkster. So that's why this is so fun therapeutic for me.

Sue Wilhite 37:24

It's easy. Don't get me started.

Sue Wilhite 37:27

You and I need to talk, Randy.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 37:43

You got it. I can spot it when you got it. 

Sue Wilhite 37:47

Yeah. So any last wisdom that you want to share? Any shoutouts

Dr. Randy Crutcher 38:00

Oh, shout out yes, absolutely.

Barb Horn 38:02

Definitely, we got a couple. We have some guides and mentors we want to call out to. We definitely want to call out to all the dogs that have been graced, embraced our lives over and over and even the ones who haven't found a family yet that's still embrace our lives.

Dr. Randy Crutcher 38:24

We have a dog wisdom council that we consult it that are in the guidebook two of whom have already now passed on since the deck's been out in the world, but we are those numbers.

Sue Wilhite 38:34

All right, then. Well, thank you both so much for being on the show. This has been delightful. This has been so much fun. This has been just like having a pack of dogs and warm and friendly and all of that good stuff. So thank you for being on the show. My viewers, please go check out their deck and I will have links for it in the notes underneath the show and go check it out. Go buy it. As we record Christmas season is around the corner. So go buy gobs of them as gifts for your doggy friends, and for even your cat friends as a preview of things to come. So thank you and may you be as successful as you can even imagine.

Barb Horn 39:35

Thank you so much, Sue. Love your show. Keep watching it everybody.

Sue Wilhite 39:41

Thank you.

Barb Horn 39:42

I can send you. So we wanted this to be a service product. So we'd started a shelter program where you adopt a shelter and you can either buy books, wholesale for a shelter, a shelter can buy them directly and then they retain the profits for the work of that shelter.

Sue Wilhite 39:58

Nice. Just as an update, Barb and Randy's new deck, Cosmic Cat Wisdom Cards won the Gold Award and they cover Visionary Awards for 2020 in the category of inspirational and transformational products. Congratulations Barb and Randy.