Dragging Up 60
Behind The Mic w/ Eric Gislason, Executive Director of NASP
October 11, 2020
In this episode we discuss the National Association of Safety Professionals many layers of service, in order to provide all safety practitioners with certification and training information many never knew existed.
[00:00:00] Allen Woffard: dragging up six point things show is brought to you by safety FM. So, what do you get when you bring together safety professionals from Alaska, Montana, and East Tennessee, you get a podcast with a twang hosted by Allen Woffard, J. R. Kitchens and Betty Stout 

Dragging up 6.0 is on the air wherever you go on the Internet. This show is brought to you by Safety FM. 

Allen: Hey, y'all, Thank you for joining us on today's episode of Dragging Up 60 Today we have the distinction and privilege of having Eric Gislason, with the National Association of Safety Professionals out of Wilmington, North Carolina, joining us, Uh, I've been very fortunate in the past of having Erica as one of my primary instructors in my safety progression and went through the NASP for both the Certified Safety Manager CSM and for the HAZWOPER Train, the trainer. 

Uh, one of the things that we're hoping to do is improve the knowledge that a lot of safety personnel out in the field don't have on the NASP it’s, recent changes, its recent accreditation and how this is going to benefit so many out there in the industry that we're not aware of its existence. Good afternoon, Eric. And thank you for joining us today. 


[00:01:34] Eric Gislason: Thank you, gentlemen. I really appreciate the opportunity,


[00:01:36] Allen Woffard: so to get going. Betty, since you don't know him, what would you like to ask, Eric?


[00:01:41] Betty Stout: Well, put me on the spot right out of the gate.


[00:01:43] Allen Woffard: We're changing it up a little bit since already knows about Bruce Jenner.


[00:01:47] Betty Stout: Well, I haven't really, I guess never taken the opportunity to go in and look at the course. Is that the N A S P offers? But I have done that today, and there's some really great courses out there. So be a new into the oil and gas industry. One of those courses would you suggest that I would take on the petroleum once that are listed?


[00:02:08] Allen Woffard: That's a good question.


[00:02:09] Eric Gislason: Yeah, that is a good question. So, you know, we do have published over 75 different specialist courses and we cover the gamut we cover, You know, general industry construction. We've got a fair amount of environmental courses. And we have an entire section of oil and gas related courses, too, and we kind of break it up into There's three different categories. We have refineries, we have pipeline and we have drilling. And then we have three different levels within that we have a specialist administrator and a professional level. So there's actually nine different courses that are related to specifically well on the gas, and it really depends on what direction you're heading. As faras you are. You gonna be out there drilling. Are you gonna be doing pipeline or you're gonna be doing refinery? So that's just one of the many sets of industry that we have within the scope of the core courses that we offer.


[00:03:05] Betty Stout: Awesome


[00:03:05] Allen Woffard: job, brother. How about yourself? I bet if you're done my apologies.


[00:03:09] Betty Stout: I'm good


[00:03:10] JR Kitchens: job. Great. Yeah, That was really want you, Eric, by the way, Once again, welcome to the podcast as faras refineries and drilling and pipeline. If you know this, I don't know. I hate to put you on the spot, but is there a difference in incidents reported or is it pretty much just refineries or I would probably guess it would be drilling because that's not a very safe job, you know. But what would be your input on that?


[00:03:36] Eric Gislason: Well, I don't know the exact numbers right up the top of my head, but I can tell you, J R. That that the oil and gas industry typically has a higher incident rate. It is. It's very similar to construction where you're going to get higher injury rates with your falls, your caught between. You're struck by your electrocutions, those types of things. The old fatal four kind of holds true into the oil and gas, especially from the drilling aspect. Now that's going to be less in the refinery because you're talking about MAWR set parameters of operating. But certainly refineries, as we've seen lately, have had their fair issues as well. With some of the explosions we've seen lately, it could be a tough industry.


[00:04:18] JR Kitchens: I'm glad you brought that up. The drilling industry, of course, is dangerous. I spent a lot of time as a roughneck and motor German and and Derek Mahon and even still, today there's a lot of automatic rigs out there, their safety 100%. But then There's also the old school where you have the guys that handle the slips, the tongs and and everything operates so fast, almost a lightning speed. And when a person gets hurt, it's either really bad or fatal. Do you see that a lot in your in your field?


[00:04:52] Eric Gislason: Well, now I particularly I'm not in oil and gas myself.


[00:04:57] Allen Woffard: Sure, you're in the onsite training of business and whatnot, but I know you. I know you probably meet a lot of safety professionals in seminars or conferences or whatever and that you have and probably know thousands of them. Do they talk much about that? 


[00:05:17] Eric Gislason: No, you know we do. We hold site specific courses for industries like petroleum, oil and gas and and yeah, I mean way certainly share our fair share of horror stories in the in the various industries. Actually, I come back. I come from a meat processing and automotive industry. I've done some stints with some very large slaughterhouses within the United States, and there are definitely opportunities for improvement when it comes to any type of industry. But specifically, these high hazard industries like oil, gas and, uh, that sort of thing. Yeah,


[00:06:00] JR Kitchens: thanks. Appreciate it, 

Allen Woffard. Yeah, brother. So, you know, one of the questions Betty just brought up with some of my recently saw on LinkedIn thing where a lot of people are getting in oil and gas. And it's one of the classes that Eric teaches you know is about hazardous waste operations. Because where they're testing new pipelines and they're testing things, they're getting ready, to have and that this was just something that you know, like recently, where they're wanting safety personnel and maintenance personnel. And this is something Eric's been doing. 

He travels around the country, is teaching, HAZWOPER you know, for the responders and stuff like that. So there is getting ready to be. From what I've seen on the environmental side, there's going to be a lot of requests for you. 

No additional training like that, because fire departments, you know, they handle a lot of stuff with vehicular accidents and D o t. But there's not really anybody outside of NASP I've seen that does a lot of training for hazardous waste operations for industry. So that was one of the reasons I took it because of working with the anhydrous ammonia and Eric's class was phenomenal. 

You know, going into this you two may not have seen this. Eric and I were one of safety groups in Facebook the other day, and a lot of people are not aware of the NASP, anyway someone had made a smart ass comment made about how the he thought it was being compared to the American society of what used to be safety engineers. And Eric was trying to correct him. Say, Hey, you know, we've been around since this. So, Eric, if you would give us how long has NASP been around? And if you know, the history of when they got said, Can you tell us, was the intention to start as the great organization is now? Or was it originally supposed to be just specifically training?


[00:07:47] Eric Gislason: There is quite a history there, Allen, by the way, Allen, I do have a little bone to pick with you. Okay, s So how long have I known you now?


[00:07:56] Allen Woffard: God,  seven years? Six years?


[00:08:00] Eric Gislason: Six or seven years. And this time, all this time I thought it was WOLFORD and Then I hear JR saying the great Allen WOFFARD, I had no idea


[00:08:12] Allen Woffard: Names have been changed to protect the innocent. I know you were fine. Every time we're in class, you're the only one that got it close to being right. So I was like, Hey, I'm just going with Eric


[00:08:24] Eric Gislason: with the last name. Like guess. Listen, last name guessed. Listen, I get butchered all the way to go radio, You know, back to your question, Allen , the NASP in fact, it's ironic that we're having this conversation because this month is the 20 year anniversary of NASP being opened. So that's kind of cool. And, uh, you know, it was a small operation when it first started. I used to be business partners with the guy that opened up NASP. We had a smaller company in the nineties called Environmental and Safety Services. And then around 2000, I went on my separate way and I got back into private industry and being a safety manager for several different organizations and then fast forward came back about 15 years later, and I've been with the NASP for the last six years So it really initially was an alternative means for doing training through online when online was first started coming out. 

But, Allen, you know our niche all along has been the style, the methodology of the training that we did. And we're really big on what we call andragogical training methodologies, which is just a fancy name for training adults instead of training Children. Yeah, that's right. You know, we want to stay away from pedagogy and we want to get people involved in our interactive because that's really how people learn. And I'm glad to see other companies were starting to do it. But we've been doing this since the early nineties, and that's kind of what's carved out a name for ourselves. So I've been thrilled about that. But we continue to grow and, you know, we're continuing to grow as we go into the New Year in 2021. So I'm excited


[00:10:08] Allen Woffard: and a little back story for you guys. When JR and I were actually working in Alaska. I took my very first online course, first one I've ever seen through the NASP. And it was for basically a safety auditor safety inspection. And, uh, the thing was at the time up in Ohio, I was on TOS from Alaska up in Ohio, and Pennsylvania, when we had that major blackout that occurred, I can't remember what year that was. They started hiring people that, you know, going to safety doing these audits. And they said the only place that we could find this safety auditor training was through this NASP and this is how I found out about it. And it was years later that I got to go to my weeklong class with Eric for the certified safety manager. 

So, you know, one of the greatest things and this this is something you know, that really hit me was in some of these groups. As I was saying, that one guy was trying to compare the NASO what used to be the ASSE, and Eric was trying to talk with A lot of people are not aware of it. They don't understand the global reach. They don't know the number of companies. And, you know, one of the things that Eric teaches us in every class with some of the history. So, Eric, talking about the history, talking about, like the CSM. Can you tell us the recent development with your new certification? Because a lot of them don't understand where you just came in with the IACET and you know, the for those who were listening. If you look on some of the government sites, I take the back. Indeed, where they're hiring for government projects, they don't list like the CSP and the ASP as the primary. The primary is actually any CSM, CSD, and LSP. But they've actually just came out with a master's course. So, Eric, if you would touch on that now that you know, new designation, new certifications came up.


[00:12:05] Eric Gislason: Sure, we're pretty excited about our IACET and it stands for the International Association for Continuing Education Training. That's a mouthful. That's basically the fact that we can, as a body, uh, issue continuing education units see, use or well recognized its anti I set 2018 all of our courses air now accredited. So for those of you guys, that are CSP or C S H T s or you have other professional designations. These will allow you to meet your CEU requirements for continuing education for any of the professional designations out there. So you know, we're excited about that. CSM by far is our flagship course. That's the certified safety manager. That's a week-long course. In fact, I'm teaching it Allen for the first time since COVID next week. And we've got a class of 25 which is the max we can have in North Carolina. So we're pretty excited. We'll jump through the hoops of the CDC requirements, but I still think we're gonna have a great class.


[00:13:08] Allen Woffard: Are you doing it at the battleship again? Or you have to do it somewhere else.


[00:13:12] Eric Gislason: We're doing it at the hotel. The battleship is still closed down, so we're doing at the Holiday Inn on Market Street. But oh,


[00:13:20] Allen Woffard: that's a nice place. Yeah, yeah, there's playing around.


[00:13:23] Eric Gislason: Yeah, it's a it's a nice place. So, you know, the courses have been accredited through, IACET, But you know, Allen, the big one that we're pushing for that we haven't completed yet. We're in the application process and I'll tell you, we probably don't have time in this segment to get into the CSP versus some of our designations because, uh, you know, a lot of people I know that people who aren't CSP tend to snub nose at people who are CSP s and vice versa. I don't get that mentality. I think the B. C S P is a good organization. And let's face it, they have the premier test that indicates knowledge and skills. But really, I think everybody would agree, even the CSPs. That it's based on math iis based on engineering. There's a little bit of industrial hygiene. We've had students for years. Allen, push us too. Hey, why don't you guys compete with BCSP. And we're like, Well, we're true workplace safety. We're not really into engineering. So they the feedback was Well, then why don't you guys have a test? That's true workplace safety. So after years and years, we are in the process through and see accreditation, becoming a certifying body for two different high level test. This is not training. This is completely separate training. This puts us on the exact same playing field as the BCSP CSPs of the world. Once we get this accreditation, these will be two separate certs. There's a CSD A certified safety director, and MSP a master safety professional. And these would be test through a third party. Proctor. They're not open book. They're closed book. It's the real deal. And we've been wanting to do this for many years, but we had other priorities at the time to get our I set get our courses updated. But this is, uh this is going to take place, probably in the first quarter of 2021 if not sooner.


[00:15:22] Allen Woffard: Well, good deal. Yeah, I seen recently on LinkedIn where, uh, few of the people have done the beta for the MSP. Yeah, and that was really good to see that that, you know, come into fruition and, you know, again, for those that don't understand the NASP you know, it's not just training for any specific industry. The CSM covers construction. And if you went to the week long program like I did, you know, Eric incorporates a lot of different things, you know, we're talking about pedagogy and adult learning. And, you know, we were actually put through classes and part of that courses, we were given an assignment,.Okay, get up here, teach a class, pick your subject matter and you work with the group. So it's not just you. You actually see the challenges and giving some of that and one of the questions it was brought up. Eric will get back into CSM just for a second because people were saying, How is it possible they don't understand the difference between a Department of Labor OSHA 10 and 30. But what is it about the CSM that's able to issue an NASP safety 10 and 30? hour card.


[00:16:31] Eric Gislason: Okay, that's a That's a great question, and we get that a lot. Initially, we do a lot of business overseas, so about 30% of our revenues come from we have people doing classes in behalf of NASP. We have franchises. We have three different franchises in Saudi Arabia. We have franchises in U. A. E. And Egypt and Nigeria in India. So you know you can't teach 10 and 30’s overseas and yet a lot of these companies that are U S base but doing business overseas in these other countries still wanted tens and thirties, and our instructors wanted to teach them. So we allow that and it's perfectly acceptable under O T I to do that because they don't provide it. But then we still had people within the United States saying We'd like to teach the NASP the 10 in the 30. Is that possible? Of course it is we do it. American Safety Council does it. There's other agencies that allow you to teach a 10 and 30. I think everybody gets so bent out of shape that it has to be the O. T. I write that it has to be the OSHA version. 

And actually, I'm not a big fan of it, Allen, because if you look at what O. T. I says about it, say it should be awareness only, and you can't count any of the training that you do in the 10 and the 30 towards site specific requirements of your facility, right? It is. That blows my mind. Now there are seven states in the United States that on construction sites, they do require specifically the O. T. I version of the 10 and the 30 So and we put that on our website were very clear about it. It's New York, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Missouri, Massachusetts, Rhode Island. In Nevada, if you're teaching on construction sites, they require the 10 and the 30 from O T I. But nobody else does. 

It's completely voluntary, and that's the thing that I impress upon people. You go through our CSM course, trust me, you'll cover a lot of material very comfortable in allowing you to teach a 10 or 30 on behalf of NASP.


[00:18:46] Allen Woffard: Yeah, it is. If if you've never taken it, it is a rigorous class. I mean, the homework. You do everything the way Eric provides the classes again. If you've not been to one, uh, it all builds up. So at the end, I mean, you're you're not forgetting anything. You understand how everything interlocks, Eric, I appreciate you sharing that Betty with your background and what you've recently been doing with Columbia Southern and then the training you've been through. Would you like to ask any questions of Eric about training and how it may help you with your new position. Or is there any question you'd like to ask him as a follow up?


[00:19:22] Betty Stout: Well, while we've been talking, I've been kind of looking at some more of the curriculum information.


[00:19:32] Allen Woffard: I'm kidding. Uh,


[00:19:34] Betty Stout: not at all. It's good stuff. I can't believe that I've been in safety for this long and have overlooked this information.


[00:19:40] Allen Woffard: And again, a lot of people are not aware. That's  why I wanted Eric on here.


[00:19:44] Betty Stout: Yeah, There's a lot of great courses on here. If I did want to look at doing some of the pipeline training, could I jump right into, like the petroleum safety Administrator? Or do I need to do those courses in order? There's, like a specialist and manager, and then it looks like the administrator.


[00:20:03] Eric Gislason: Betty, if you do the administrator, the other two courses are built into it, so you're not required to take them separately,


[00:20:11] Allen Woffard: Actually. Oh, good option.


[00:20:13] Eric Gislason: Yeah, absolutely. And another thing Betty on that. No. While I'm thinking about it, you said you're enrolled at Columbia Southern. All of our courses are qualified for academic transfers, So yes, you get, see use from N A S P, but they can actually be transferred to Columbia Southern for academic credits, our highest level certification courses of an L S P. A licensed safety professional. That's a 20 different specialist courses. It's about 300 hours worth of work, and it's equivalent to 21 credit hours at Columbia Southern University. We've got a chart that shows the transfer grid and what they cover. So ah, lot of people don't know that about us either. And, you know, shame on us for not doing a better job in marketing and getting the word out. That's why I'm thrilled to be here today.


[00:21:05] Betty Stout: That's great information, because a lot of the people that we've talked to are, you know, the other safety professionals that were connected with. There's a lot of people that use Colombia Southern, so you could do both and accomplished, you know, or do one and accomplished both. I mean, how great is that?


[00:21:21] Eric Gislason: Absolutely. It's a win win for that.


[00:21:23] Betty Stout: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that information. That's great.


[00:21:26] JR Kitchens: Uh are you member Driven it all at the NTSB.


[00:21:35] Eric Gislason: We are. Yeah, way definitely have a nonprofit membership division that allows us to give back to our community and do some pretty cool things. So we we do have our memberships air not expensive. It's if you want a premium membership. It's $195 a year and gives you access to all sorts of great stuff. We gotta ah, huge resource library for safety professionals, That's, you know, power points and sample plans and programs. We have a lot of relationships with other safety groups that give discounts by being a member. We've got something called an ability program. It's kind of like a triple A for safety professionals. So you get all this stuff, you know, attorneys that deal with lawsuits related Thio. People getting hurt on the job. We have relationships with them. There's a ton of that on the The Members page and for, you know, $195 a year. Yeah, it also becoming a member gives you discounts on the training programs that we offer. You become a member. Your membership? Absolutely


[00:22:48] JR Kitchens: approximately. What is the number of members in the N. A. S. B at this time just in approximate, you know, Unless, of course, that's top secret tempo. In that case, I don't believe we have a clearance for that do we Allen ?


[00:23:04] Eric Gislason: I'll need to see that clearance sheet. to, release that information.


[00:23:08] Allen Woffard: Hold on. Let me type it up.

JR Kitchens: Don't Don't email it to him. Don't


[00:23:11] Eric Gislason: Don't email it, Allen. No, we've got about the last I checked, We pulled it about three or four months ago it’s a little over 10,000 people worldwide. Wow. And those areactive members, those are You know, we've got people. You know how some people you by the membership and then you don't do anything with I've been guilty of it, but


[00:23:33] JR Kitchens: you get all that you need. And then you said, Yeah. Okay. See you later.


[00:23:36] Eric Gislason: That's exactly right. And that's why Yeah, Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, we've updated our membership so that you know, it's not a one and done type situation, because I'll admit it. I'm guilty of doing it. Get everything. I can cancel my membership.


[00:23:51] JR Kitchens: kind of like insurance, right? Only not the same. Well way Get this subject asked a lot and talked about a lot. Is that do you believe that being in the trades, you know, like a welder. Construction guys. Four man transmission operator. Does that help to transition you from the trades field into the safety Or or How do you believe about that?


[00:24:18] Eric Gislason: That's a great question. In fact, I think, Allen, we were batting that around US safety professionals the other night as well. Yeah, I think I think that it is tremendously helpful to be in the trades. I think it gives you such an advantage over somebody that just came with, Let's say, a four year OHS degree and gets there ASP or their CSP. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's people that do it. But to really quote unquote get your hands dirty and understand what other people are going through when they're trying to do their job productively and balance safety in it toe actually do the job. That's huge.


[00:25:01] Allen Woffard: Yeah, If you don't know the job, how can you? How can you and and still safety within the workers? It's just


[00:25:07] Eric Gislason: well, you can preach from the you can preach from your manual. Yeah, Yeah. And then And then everybody looks at you like you're crazy and you don't know what you're talking about.


[00:25:16] JR Kitchens: But you can't really walk on water. Yeah, I understand that. Well, thank you, Eric. I appreciate it. Uh, Father Allen? 

Allen Woffard: Yes, sir. So, you know, Eric, I'm glad you brought that up. Jr. Could you give a brief description? I know from the classes I've been in, you know, with the CSM where JR was asking. But could you tell us what kind of people generally take like the CSM courses? You know, and for you guys, When I was in the class, we had safety directors. We had HR personnel. We you wouldn't believe the backgrounds, uh, that went into the classes and same thing with the HAZWOPER train, the trainer. But if you would, you know, what are some of the levels that your seeing in the classroom, you know, from, guys on the floor up to executives,


[00:26:04] Eric Gislason: I'll tell you, it really is that range that you're talking about, Allen, we've got, uh, you know, demographic wise. Every class that I teach, I make them hold up their hands. You know how much time have you had been in safety? And surprisingly, I would have thought CSM would be a lot of the newbies. But it's not. We have, ah lot of our CSM or people that have had 5, 10 15 years in the field. It's it's primarily safety managers. We definitely get a cross section of HR trying to get, you know, because a lot of companies HR and safety go hand in hand and security and environmental on and everything else. So people are wearing a lot of hats these days. We So we do a fair amount of HR people. We get Fire Department personnel, we get a lot of municipalities, we get a lot of government agencies were doing a lot more with construction. Uh, when we first started out, we were primarily general industry. Seems like with oceans take on construction and some of these other high hazard industries. There's a lot more focus on that, a lot more opportunity for companies like us to help.


[00:27:18] Allen Woffard: But, you know, talking about that, what would you say are some of the more popular agencies to seek out training? Would it be primarily construction? Do you get a lot of I know the answer to one of these, but do you get a lot of corporations and stuff? They want you to travel, you know, to train their groups in various areas Or do you see a lot of like people want to just build up their training and asking the NASP to come out? And given that level of training, do you see a lot of repeats?


[00:27:45] Eric Gislason: We definitely have preferred customers. We have clients that have been with us for years and years. Department of Defense,  Department Interior. Gosh, I've done so much training at the Bureau of Reclamation, all of these dams throughout the western half, the United States that got great relationships with those folks. You know, a lot of our customers, they'll go through a CSM and then they'll say, Wow, I would love to bring you in house and do training for us, so we can certainly do that. My big thing with that is making the training site specific. If we're going to come in and do it for you, I wanna review your plans and programs. I want to implement your policies and procedures into the training so that it pertains to you. I hate having canned programs and doing can programs for clients way do a lot of that for  a variety of different clients. Again, primarily, our clients have been general industry, but I'd say about 30 to 35% in our construction on some of these other oil and gas industries. Oil and gas was kicking butt a while back. But of course it died out with the almighty barrel going down so low. And and now there's starting to be a comeback in oil and gas as well,


[00:28:57] Allen Woffard: with the oil and gas picking up. And this is a gun going in tow, leading with Betty for oil and gas. You know where I was talking about HAZWOPER. One of things people are considering. Yeah. What are some other things I know confined space issues, you know? Especially with H2S and some of the energy that they used for welding. What are the classes? Would you suggest those going into the oil and gas industry that they should have for that type of work? 


[00:29:27] Eric Gislason: Well, I think oil and gas. You're gonna hit on all the same general industry standards that you would in a lot of other scenarios. Physical scenarios. But, you know, we do a H2S train, the trainer course. So we do. And let's face it, H2S is a is a big 1, 10 parts per million on your pale with a C g i h. Saying one part per million for a pill that's crazy. That's very difficult to comply with. Uh, but that being said, any training like that, your emergency response, your emergency management, you're confined space entry and rescue machine guarding like JR was talking about. I've seen some horrific accidents with people using the rigs and losing fingers and getting legs pulled in and just God awful stuff. So your PPE all that's covered in our various oil and gas training classes that we teach, but it's pretty much going to be if it's general industry. And then there's going to be some construction in there as well. They're going to need it on these oil and gas rigs,


[00:30:29] Allen Woffard: right? Well, sure come a long ways. In the last 10 10 to 20 years, uh, the safety and the and they all build. It's just it's just amazing how hearts come.


[00:30:38] Eric Gislason: Oh, absolutely, that's I mean, that's the name of the game. Continuous improvement, you know?


[00:30:56] Allen Woffard: Well, I don't know. That's where we're hoping to find out for view, but make sure you've got your PPE, Eric. No, as a serious question before I go back and, you know, let Betty in the mask. So, you know, one of the things that was recently brought up, where safety is concerned. You know, they just had the national safety stand down for falls and stuff, but there was actually, uh, a new organization. I can't remember if it's insurance. I'm sorry. I'll try and find and send it to you with all these deaths and fatalities, it or crime recently with excavations. Do you think that either the NASP or other organizations could provide better training on that? I didn't know Because I know what your experience and stuff. That's when things you trained us on, you know, was looking at grade A B and C and talking about soil and all that. Do you think that that's something that should really be intensified? The training on excavations?


[00:31:52] Eric Gislason: Well, I think any time you have a fatality like that, it raises a red flag that that may be especially when you start seeing trends like we are. You know, you hate being reactive and chasing your tail on stuff like this. But if there's if there are continued increases in fatalities, it's something that always is going to need to be looked at and and provide better and more quality training. Ironically, I just went back through the 5 10 of course, because I hadn't renewed and I let it lapse, and we were in that class doing it virtually. And there was a fatality that week, a trench collapse. This is one of those you know where you hear these trench collapse and that are 2.5 or 3 ft deep. It's all the person who happened to be on their belly or something like that. So it's just like, uh, they're obviously needs to be more intensive training on trenching and excavation and all the work that goes along with it. And, uh, NATPE, along with a lot of other companies, is pro training. You you


[00:32:53] Allen Woffard: can never do too much training. Yeah, I appreciate that. Hey, Betty, do you have, or anything that you'd like to follow up on that one on excavation. Since you know, oil and gas, there's a lot of excavations.


[00:33:26] Betty Stout: Now, I agree that there needs to be more training on the excavations part, but I did notice, which I think is a great thing. They offer financial aid


[00:33:36] Allen Woffard: first. Of course.


[00:33:37] Eric Gislason: Is yeah way offer scholarships. We offer payment programs. We offer V A benefits. All of our courses, uh, could be a 100% reimbursed through the V A course. There's always a certain amount. I'm not the expert on the va. There's a lady named Christie here that handles all that stuff for us. But like the CSM classes, its's 100% reimbursable through V A. So we've got a great relationship with these organizations and that allows us to be, you know, we don't ever want to turn anybody away because they don't have enough money to purchase this course. We bend and work with anybody. A to the name of the game is getting the knowledge. Knowledge is power and power will translate to drive in the workplace, injuries down and doing the right thing. And that's the name of the game. And so we don't ever want somebody to be turned away because they can't afford to take a class. So we'll work with you in any way we can.


[00:34:36] Betty Stout: That says, Ah, a lot about NASP and what they stand for when you put people over profit. So I appreciate that very much


[00:34:46] JR Kitchens: absolutely. Amen to that, Jr. Follow up, brother. So if Caitlyn Jenner was a safety professional, I think I think Caitlyn should be given us a lot of credit for all the times that we put either that a giver, the CSP and tell her to go home or whatever. You know, But I have. Eric, I've got a question for you. I know that you've got to be a busy guy. I've been on board of directors, and and I know how busy you guys get. Uh, there's no days off. There's no time off and and it's always especially safety. Safety is 24 7. You could never go down and lay your head on the pillow and start to get eight hours sleep. This is not gonna happen. Uh, and so my question to you area could be What


[00:35:33] Betty Stout: do you


[00:35:33] Allen Woffard: do to relieve your stress? Simple question. What? Uh


[00:35:38] Eric Gislason: huh. Oh, that's not


[00:35:41] Allen Woffard: a simple answer, but simple. Yeah, it's never that simple,


[00:35:45] Eric Gislason: but and we're also PG rated, so that's probably


[00:35:48] Allen Woffard: way a disclaimer that will go on.


[00:35:51] Eric Gislason: I noticed that, Allen. I appreciated that. Well, I'll tell you, I do live in Wilmington, North Carolina, which is one of the most beautiful cities in the country. I love it. I've lived all over the country, lived all over the United States and always end up and Wilmington. I got a little place on the water, so I got a little boat. Get in the water. Nothing fancy. Nothing big. Just something to get out on the water. And, you know, after a 10 12 hour days, hop on that boat and go out and throw out a pole or something like that, perhaps, maybe have a cold one. You know, the safety guy does manage Thio.


[00:36:30] JR Kitchens: My car is already filled up, so I'm on my way right now. E got my e got my GPS or GSP or CS and whatever it is, uh, sided and headed for headed for your hometown. Really? What time's supper, By the way?


[00:36:48] Eric Gislason: Supper's eight oclock sharp. That's how. That's not late.


[00:36:55] JR Kitchens: No sooner No later. Hey, Yes, Allen, if if you were Caitlyn Jenner Yes, where would you goto just relieve the stress? I'm gonna go hang out with Eric and Wilmington. 

Allen Woffard: Uh, do you feel that some of these areas air just saturated with safety pros? And you know, is there anything you if you're still just doing safety instead of being the trainer and the director Now, uh, what would be some advice you give to somebody that struggling, you know, their basic safety Basically, due to the field?


[00:38:09] Eric Gislason: Yeah. I mean, let's let this has been thrown safety into a whole nother realm. I mean, who would have thought that the average person was talking about an N95 9 months ago, right? Yeah, Yeah, it's really propelled us into Ah, whole new realm of dealing with workplace safety and just safety in general has gotten such a high building as far as the things that we have to deal with. COVID That being said, I mean, I do see industry coming back. I mean, I'm already seen it in with what we dio were actually as an organization. We're up for the year A Sfar a sales Now we took a beating right in March when we had to stop all of our training. You know, all of our classroom courses, but I'm starting to travel again and teaching for smaller companies. And we do this CSM next week. So I think that the average safety person will will be affected. Maybe for the next 6 to 9 months. I am optimistic that way. Get the the cure for Kobe but the vaccine and maybe get


[00:39:21] Allen Woffard: after election. Yeah,


[00:39:22] Eric Gislason: yeah, some what some might say Come on. And uh huh. But you know that I see a lot on the the Websites with indeed and and linked in saying I'm looking for a job. I feel you and get in contact with me because we do hear about positions opening from time to time. Fairly often, we have a job site, a job market where people list they list jobs with us. They pay us like they would pay. Indeed, or one of these other companies keep in touch with us. I need to do a better job at marketing all the different things that we do to help people in financial strife right now. So, uh, I'm glad you brought that up, Allen.


[00:40:06] Allen Woffard: Yeah, and that was actually gonna be one of the questions I already knew the answer to. But one thing I wanted people to know about was, you know, after training, you don't just stop and you don't send them sales. You're like, Hey, get on the website. Here's where our job board is. Here's where you're, you know, training, supplies and support and all this other stuff, and it continues. I mean, you guys just don't say okay, Classes done. And we'll see you on the next one. Um, the N s P does an outstanding job of trying toe get people place and not just, you know, one of things that Eric puts out the classes, you know, Look at this. And, you know, make sure you continue with your education and that this is the next question. Before we try and wrap it up for. You know, when you're busy as a follow up to, like, CSM a zit follow up to any type of safety training. What type of training do you think safety personnel should get into shit as an additional. Do you think it should be like Red Cross train, the trainer M e w p e. And I guess that would be depending on the industry. But what would you say is some good follow up classes outside of like, the N E S p or any other ocean type of training?


[00:41:15] Eric Gislason: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, there there are. You know what it really is industry specific, but, I mean, I think every safety person out there should have their Red Cross and first aid training and and be able to do that and be able to perform it. At the very least again. It depends on where you're headed. Uh, now, if you're talking besides OSHA, obviously what I was gonna go is with, you know, the OTIs are a good courses. I never tell somebody. Don't take o t. I. It's just with some people, you know. Do you want to take two weeks of training to issue attending a 30 hour car. That's kind of up to you. But maybe you want to and maybe you like having that opportunity. Oh, my gosh. There's so much training out there. You know that, Allen, The thing I learned after being 30 plus years in this field, I don't know much. You know, the more I learned, the more I know. I don't know. It's like I had a guy. Tell me all your safety guy. So you should know this and this. I'm like, No, that's like saying you're a doctor without having a specialty, right? I just think that there is so many different avenues to find yourself a niche in safety. You know, it's hard to say. Well, I'm a safety guy or a safety gal. What does that mean? Are you industrial hygiene? Are you toxicology or you confined space rescue? Are you incipient stage firefighting? Are you more medical and health, or you O h s? I mean, my gosh, there's so much that you can do in this field. It's wide open for the taking us, Far as I'm concerned.


[00:42:47] Allen Woffard: Oh, yeah, Yeah, and one of the reasons I was asking That was part of a panel the other days where I'm trying to work with U C. Davis right now on developing a online class. But one of the things that one of the organizations is supporting this program. Uh, they came up and said that one of the things were changing. They do a lot of agriculture. They do a lot of stuff in support of firefighters out on the West Coast and stuff. But starting next year, what they're doing because these guys travel and they're going to various sites, their entire safety department has thio. They're paying for it. The company's paying for it, you know, be at least a basic EMT. And have basic firefighting skills just as a backup. So if they get to a site, you know, it enhances their abilities. It seems that that one's catching on. It's gonna be put into enforcement in, like Montana, Idaho. Uh, we're not the managers, but the field guys. The field level will have that skill and ability, and then they'll be, you know, assisting and training out in the field. But if you were to say outside of the C S. M. L S P and now the Masters. Eric, Um, do you think other courses like Betty took a great, uh, communications course? I can't remember the name of it right now, Betty, but do you think that that that would help with management in order to get words out, uh, to communicate better? Or do you think just simply taking management classes? Because where you're at that level having to sell an idea? Thio. You know, maybe the executive board. Well,


[00:44:26] Eric Gislason: that's a boy. That's not a loaded question. Now


[00:44:29] Allen Woffard: it's a lot we're trying to get a lot out of you and squeezing you for every inch.


[00:44:33] Eric Gislason: Well, I mean, the the answers is an obvious yes. And I mean, you guys in the safety world know as well as I do communication skills are paramount to driving behavior change, getting the word across, you know, showing the empathy showing that you care about these people, that type of thing. You've got to be able to communicate with your employer, your employees, your management. So all those communication skills I love taking courses like that, anything that hones in on your management skills. I'm a big believer in the continuous improvement and some of the ISO Riggs. You guys, safety people should get into those eyes. So rigs, not even if even if you're not doing it. But you're living it as a safety manager where you're developing a safety management system, right? A whole employee involvement, management commitment, hazard analysis of corrective action, evaluation, training and education. All that. Yeah. Yeah. You guys should Everybody should be doing that and living it a safety


[00:45:44] JR Kitchens: person. If you don't understand safety, how can you follow? Expect somebody to follow regulations. You know, like a it's it's better to be a communicator and be a brute. You know, like a like a safety cop. Hey, put your safety glasses on or hey, put your stupid, hard toed shoes on. You know, it's better to be. Hey, do you know why you're wearing those hard toed shoes? Hey, do you know why you shouldn't have your safety glasses on the top of your head? You know eso I agree with you 100%. And what a great, great point.


[00:46:14] Eric Gislason: You better put those safety glasses on or I'm gonna tell you to put those safety glasses on again. Yeah,


[00:46:21] JR Kitchens: there's a song right everybody I'm telling you. 

Allen Woffard: Well, if we could get Betty  to shut up for a minute. Yeah, I know. Is there anything else you'd like to ask, Jr before we go to Betty? 

JR Kitchens: Oh, go right to Betty, please. 

Allen Woffard: Okay. Betty, before we look at Eric, go. And, uh, if we could get Eric just to be quite for so you can ask him a question for a minute. Is there anything else you'd like to talk about? Or mention or any questions you have about the NASP that you've not found on the website yet?


[00:46:52] Betty Stout: No, I don't have any questions, but I will say that I will be signing up for the membership. Looking into some of the courses that you all offer.


[00:47:00] JR Kitchens: That is outstanding. Good answer. Good answer. Yeah. Yeah. I can tell by the way you talk, Eric, that you came up through the ranks because, you know, you're not like a hard nose, and I mean this in a good way. You're not like a hard nosed executive director, you know, like like some of them are. You come up through the ranks on and you know what it's like to be a safety person. You know what it's like to be a new guy in class. You're scared to death. You know, your palms are sweating. You don't know what they're gonna do. You gonna kick you out if you If they say, what's your name? I I don't know, man. You know. So So I can tell that you're a general person and accept when you're when you're on the lake, then it's aggressive that they're sure that beer in your hand Damn drunks e


[00:47:51] Eric Gislason: do it safely, JR


[00:47:53] JR Kitchens: Hey, Eric. Thank you so much, man. We really appreciate you, buddy.


[00:48:00] Eric Gislason: No, thank you, guys. Jr. Allen. Betty. I really appreciate being on the show


[00:48:03] Allen Woffard: appreciate it. Well, brother, we appreciate you probably missed your opportunity for lunch and everything, and I'm glad you got toe Come on the show with us. But before we cut you loose is or anything you'd like toe say about the NASP that's coming up. Anything that you wanna put out there for people like Betty that may not know about the organization.


[00:48:22] Eric Gislason: Well, first of all, again, thank you for the opportunity. And I don't get that opportunity to speak this much. I always. I'm one of these type that I probably don't do a good job of preaching the NASP way. And I like to think that people who know us appreciate what we do and what we provide. But you know, Allen, that comment that we had on the U. S. Safety professionals I will admit it hurt my feelings because it said, you know, are you guys is nasty. Just an ASSP rip off. And I thought, you know, nothing could be further from the truth. It's not about ripping anybody off. It's about giving people other opportunities to further their education and learn or in the safety world, I I think there's a big enough high for the B. C S. P s, the N A S P ,  A S S p s, the I s h m's of the world thio to do what we all need to do without getting out there and being ugly towards one another. And I really wanted to make that point because I hate seeing that type of vitriol on some of these sites


[00:49:27] Allen Woffard: Well, just so you know, I told him his wife and kids were really ugly. He's not married. But he got mad about that and said My mom is his sister, so Yeah,


[00:49:38] Eric Gislason: well, I didn't see that. I like that because, you know, I'm gonna, like I'm not gonna say it, but I'm in a jam


[00:49:44] Allen Woffard: I was very surprised, but one of the other group admin said, Oh, hell, yeah. We popped him. He's been in there. Yeah, he jumps in and says, Just some off the wall stuff about different things. You know, people asking about help for job. And it's like, this isn't a damn job board. They've had the Yeah, but that that was kind of surprised me because everybody else was like, Allen, You said it's not association. And so I apologize. It's not just an, you know? And they actually looked it up, and they were like, Well, I didn't know anything about this, but yeah, that one kind surprised me, and I hope I hope JR and I meet him somewhere down the street,


[00:50:23] Eric Gislason: take care of business for me. Out.


[00:50:24] Allen Woffard: Well, brother, thank you for coming in again. Thank you all for listening. This episode We hope that you learned a little something about the National Association of Safety Professionals. 

wanting to improve themselves in the programs. Eric. Thank you, Betty Jr. Thank you guys, and, uh, we'll see over the next one.


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