JR and Allen tackle the DarkSide of safety in addressing the increase of suicide in all industries.

In this episode, we open Pandoras black heart, and discuss some of the issues that make up killer stress levels.

Since 2017, the number of suicides has significantly increased throughout the skilled and not so skilled trades. And now, with COVID19 effecting so many more of us, it's time for those in safety and management to become more aggressive.

From my own personal experiences in 2006 finishing out my law enforcement career, to current safety professionals and trades professionals overdosing on prescription opiates, or other "legal," medications, the three episodes for "Combating Killer Stress," will open your heart and possibly change the way you look at the future.

Audio: JR Kitchens - jrproductions@allenwoffard.com

Featuring: RackOps CBD : At Check out use coupon code ATSGRackOps --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/allenthesafetyguy/message Support this podcast: 

 

[00:00:03] JR: able to leap rolls of caution tape in a single bound stronger than a wet paper towel her near than a cow pie in the desert sun and coming to you from East Tennessee. It's Alan. The safety guy put on them safety glasses. Where's your heart tone shoes? I say. I say you wanna heap a trouble, boy. Now here is the podcast you've been waiting for. The one the only Allen, the safety guy. 

 

[00:00:36] Allen: All right, so we finally got Jr on the mic with us today, J or how are you doing, brother? You? 

 

[00:00:41] JR: Why? I'm doing great. God, I'm not wearing anything except for his shirt. And, of course, skivvies on And no socks. E socks. You could tell the difference in my voice if I'm my phone work socks on and headphones. 

 

[00:01:01] Allen: Well, okay, so you're not selling insurance, so I'll go from there. 

 

[00:01:04] JR: No, but I can fix you up with the package because you only need to buy what? You what you need. 

 

[00:01:10] Allen: Hey, that's you know, that would be a great men's gift to set up alternative outfits by Jared Kitchens. Yeah, sure. Here's your pair of skivvies. You know, with stand guard 

 

[00:01:20] JR: channeling and with digital digital overlay. Here's what you look 

 

[00:01:24] Allen: s well, Lisa Dillman today J r and I are obviously we're good friends, you know, with jurors helping experience. You know, I just wanna, uh first of all, thank him because this podcast, you know, dragging up six point I would not exist without him. I reached out to him. And because of his expertise in the radio industry and music industry, I couldn't think of any buddy better. You know, Thio, take this endeavor on and, 

 

[00:01:56] JR: you know, I have no money, right? 

 

[00:01:57] Allen: And that's one thing. Hopefully we're gonna change on 

 

[00:02:00] JR: that just because your 

 

[00:02:02] Allen: broke ass, you know, decide 

 

[00:02:03] JR: Thio broadcast, right? That's gonna be the name of my next podcast Broke ass. 

 

[00:02:08] Allen: I hope so. I hope so. But I hope you know it, um, broke it 

 

[00:02:13] JR: and I'm gonna call on you and go Hey, because your broke ass too, will be the two broadcast is kind of like that show the two broke sisters. 

 

[00:02:20] Allen: Hey, I like that. But also in thinking, you know, I'd like to give a shout out Thio the Safety Justice League. You know, one of the things that helped lead into this podcast was one that the team got together about a week ago. If you haven't seen, you need to listen to it. It has relevance to what J R and R putting out today. It's a simple thing called How You're Doing. And it's just one of the simple steps, you know, with all the covert 19 and people on for low and having difficulties working at home and, uh, trying to figure out what's gonna happen next. That's one of the things that's inspirational, you know, it gets the conversation starting and also, you know, a huge shout out, uh, that I wanted to put out to Jason Maldonado with the Safety Justice League. Hey helped get information out there to develop the site so that J. R. And I could bring this to you and Pedro Maciel and Pedro. I apologize if I say your name incorrectly. He's helped me this week, uh, with setting up, you know, getting the background images and stuff, you know, so that we could improve upon this because that that's what J R. And I are trying to dio. We try to improve daily. He helps find uh, software and stuff. And it just an unbelievable resource. Thio, Any of you out there looking to start your own podcast or infomercials or dating sites? Um, well, let's think about the dating sites. I think there should be a little more reciprocity if he's voicing over which normally sound like, um, But 

 

[00:03:53] JR: today I just finished one. I actually Oh, and that was it. 15 bucks. 

 

[00:03:59] Allen: Was that for that asthma commercial? 

 

[00:04:01] JR: That was both of 

 

[00:04:02] Allen: them. Okay, standing so and leading into this, ladies and gentlemen, I want to give you a personal experience of mine. So one of the things we're trying to accomplish today is to bring into light one of the things that a lot of people don't want to talk about. And it's understandable, you know, with some people that brings up memories of past friends or past events, you know, things that were very difficult to deal with. And with others it was because they had a personal note where it was like, Hey, you know, I had this myself, and I don't want to relive it. But what we're talking about is combating killer stress, you know? And by that I'm talking about stress that, you know, takes you to a limit where there's end of life. And again this has personal reflections on mine. Because when I was out in Hawaii prior toe meeting up with J. R. And the rest of them in Alaska in 2006 I was just going through a whole list of issues. Uh, was getting ready to end my law enforcement career. I have one more year to go. Uh, my maternal mother, who I never got to meet, passed away eso I didn't get a lot of time thio find her and answer questions and just being in a very remote place with a lot of family issues, you know, you get overcome by some of the emotions, uh, eso to help me with that. Help me stop smoking because it's also the same time I found out I was diabetic. I was prescribed a very, very common, uh, medication that a lot of people, you know, they had depression or signs of depression were issued, and it was called Wellbutrin or bupropion. So you've got well, Butor and Celexa, Paxil, Savella, Prozac, Cymbalta, Levox. There's thousands and thousands because you have different people with different issues. There's thousands of different ways that doctors trying to help you know whether it's conferencing with you, whether it's talking to you. And it's psychologist, you go going over your early childhood development or, you know, if they go all Freudian, how many times you thought of spanking your mom. Um, but the side effect of the web you, Trine, actually made my situation worse. Uh, it probably works for a great many people. I really didn't want to smoke, but I came extremely violent towards people. And luckily, I had a good group of people that were working with me. That and this was the key to meet successfully coming off this. They said, Alan, your attitude change you where you come out jovial on you would try to start your day off on a positive note. You know, you come out with hate and discontent your heart, and I didn't notice it. You know, I was taking the well, future, and I was trying to find ways to deal with this stuff. And J. R. You may have seen people with similar issues, you know, working in Alaska and all the globe. But what had happened. It got to the point where I turned my weapon in to my deputy. And luckily, Scott was there and I had him take over and, you know, 72 hours I was coming off this. I had still not smoked. But then everything came back in. You know, you it's hard to deal with stuff when you're working remote. And J. R. And I and many, many others that have worked on Shemya or out on Wake Island, Midway Island, the Kwajalein Islands, our Kwajalein Island out in the market 

 

[00:07:39] JR: on the North Slope, 

 

[00:07:40] Allen: North Slope. Yeah, or some of the just the oil rigs and remote areas ajar had to support back in the day. But, you know, if you think about it, it's not just those remote areas, one of the things that the C d. C has put out and you are, I'm not sure if you're familiar with this. They actually track, uh, through statistical analysis, suicide facts and figures. Now, a lot of people don't understand that, you know, this is an issue that some of its mental health, some of it believe it or not, a simple loss of vitamins dietary issues. Uh, were conditions such as Kobe laying people off, but they come out with a thing called the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report and what this does it's not to scare people off, but it's just to give you some insight. So where I was talking about J. R. And I working in Alaska Ah, lot of people don't know Alaska has the highest suicide rate in the country. Uh, a lot of this stuff is classified with the military, But if you research it and you talk to people that are up there, believe it or not, some people are just affected by the light. Uh, you know, Jared can vouch for this. In the wintertime, you have diminished sunlight, and the further 

 

[00:08:58] JR: north you go, the more simple put it more simply, there is no daylight. Yeah, absolutely. It's just gone. And in the summertime, it's just the opposite where there's sunshine all the time. And you just you have a hard time sleeping because the sun's up all the time. 

 

[00:09:15] Allen: Yeah, and And John will tell you, I can't tell you how many times I flew into Anchorage and, uh, you know, I'd be heading to the base, or I'd be going down to spin ARD to my hotel for those of no spin ard. Um, you know, you'd see people out at 11. 30 at night, 2300 for the military guys midnight cutting their grass fishing and stuff. It's such an oddity. And then, you know, just the absolute reverse when wintertime came around. So, you know, Alaska has ah lot of things to it, but following Alaska, believe it or not, here in the United States and this is through the C. D. C. This is not something we're making up, you know, you could find all your statistical information on there. It's followed by Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, West Virginia. So if you look at the central portion or the western side of state, Eastern side is not as bad. But if you look from Montana dead in New Mexico, Arizona, the Dakotas, it has the highest rate of suicide in the world. And it's also where some of the most remote living is here in the country that North Dakota, South Dakota, you're looking at a lot of farmlands, a lot of mining operations. Montana is the same way, and then as you go down towards the desert, you'd be surprised. New Mexico, which always has sunlight, has a great suicide rate. And, you know, a lot of people are saying, What does this have to do with safety? What does this have to do with, you know, the jobs that were doing the jobs that we feel in And like J. R. Myself, um, as part of that morbidity and mortality rate, it's odds it sounds to people the number one for, I mean in the country for suicide or people in the fishing and hunting industry. So we're Jr and I were up in Alaska. You talk about deadliest catch. You talk about a lot of these people, that is the highest, uh, suicide occupation in the country. And you think about it and think, Well, that that's kind of what do they have to die over? You know, what is it that they have issues with? Well, you know, varies from person to person. But outside of that, you know, you wouldn't think that there were a lot of issues with fishing and hunting. Um, but anything dealing with agriculture people in remote areas away from families from long periods of time, right? 

 

[00:11:37] JR: Not only are you away from if I may not only are you away from family, but you're also if you get a captain that that likes to yellow people, which there's a lot of them out there, you yell at you, you're you're taking that stress you're taking the stress of the fact that are you gonna catch enough fish to make a living? Are you a riel hard worker or or your stamina is up because, uh, Europe for 14 16 17 hours, sometimes 32 hours. Because you gotta not only do you have to lay the string down, but you got to go to the next string and pick it up and and you got to deal with with getting in the cage and, uh, and taking the old bait down and putting the new bait up. And only before that you have to chop debate. There's a lot of prep and you're away from home. You're getting seasick. I mean, what else can you put on that? That that that is stressful. It's all stressful. And what does it have to do? A safety like you say, It's an eye opener. You know, your safety at a glance is Well, we your safety glasses, hard hats. Well, what about stress? What about handling the stress of being on a remote area? You have to open your eyes to see that as well. And you have to be, um uh, you have to be tuned to that. No. Only safety glasses, the hard hat, the knee pads. But you got to be tuned to the fact that you know, how are you doing? Uh, are you doing all right? Is the attitude changed since last week or or is the attitude getting better and and it all, it all unfolds right in front of you. And how you gonna attack that without without, uh, screwing the whole thing up? Yeah. And 

 

[00:13:31] Allen: following what Jared was saying, I was actually trying to reach out to, uh, safety associate that I know that's currently working in Dutch Harbor. And for those who don't know, Dutch Harbor is a mega fishing operation in 

 

[00:13:45] JR: Alaska. It's I would say it's a, uh, drinking town with a fishing problem. 

 

[00:13:51] Allen: That's it. Yeah, but, you know, Jam and I were covering this, but the second one again. Agricultural, forestry, fishing and hunting. That's the top. But then second, you know, to this comes, you know, Jr's background. Um, it's the oil and gas extraction. It's the mining. And the quarry operators, you know, am with the sudden boom that we have with fracking operations in those same states that was reading off to you. You know, that was up in Montana, the Dakotas. Uh, Jerry and I were talking about Williston, which, you know, it exploded more than San Francisco. 

 

[00:14:26] JR: Everything you do in the 

 

[00:14:27] Allen: gold rush. Um, but then following that is construction and manufacturing. So a lot of your trades, a lot of your trades, men and women and the people that support them are the top four back in the day. Believe it or not, the highest rate of suicide or drug use was doctors and dentist. I mean, there was just so much stuff going on. And so the reason this is so important to us this for all of those involved in safety, You know, this is something we have to look at. You know, we always do a root cause analysis. Always. I mean, I can't tell you How many times, you know, we look at a simple slip of fall accident and you'd say Okay, well, what causes? And, uh, you know, for people like J. R and I that have been in multiple industries in multiple parts of the country, we've got to see, you know, a lot of variations. And not to say that other safeties haven't, You know, a lot of them sticking their specific industry, and it's either gonna be construction or general industry. And they've been in the same plant. Um, but because yes, absolutely, brother. But because J. R and I had the opportunity, uh, to travel abroad and be it Thies remote locations and involved with ease, uh, trades, every one of them. We I mean, both of us have been involved with all four of these at some point or another. But, you know, in the root cause analysis, one of the things that came down and this is from information provided by, uh, you know, various various outsource e c d c doesn't say Okay, uh, Billy Joe kissing box, you know, did this or did that. But what you're seeing a lot of right now is that the suicides are actually a result of injuries and its opioid overdosing. That's that's the most common way to do it in most of these areas and and some of the others you know, it's shown mechanical. Uh, the person hung themselves, uh, self inflicted gunshot wound, uh, suicide by cop. And, you know, we don't know the reasons there could have been some kind of medical disorder Aziz with my father when he had cancer. You know, it just there was a lot of stuff that came up and a couple of weeks ago, way put on Allenwood for dot com that one of the things that was shown up to be lacking in a lot of people was there magnesium levels, uh, and then on top of that was a low amount of vitamin B 12. And so there was a commonality and and some of the autopsies where they were finding that people were deficient, You know, quite a few vitamins and normal things that you find in blood work on understandably, you know, with certain people that were fighting depression. Uh, the first line of action that some of these people to remote is same thing they did to me. Well, we don't have a psychologist. You could call this 800 number, but here's what they're gonna ask us to prescribe use like the well, future, you know, And, uh, unfortunately, that that's the common thing right now. And I don't know if J r I did not ask Jr about this. I we really didn't prep a lot on this, uh, any of experiences he had. Um but, you know, there were There were conditions and events at one time where I thought I'd be gone. Uh, the loss of my daughter. Uh, other events that happened throughout my work history and law enforcement. Working remote. 

 

[00:18:00] JR: Yeah. All these all these add up. You know, like death in the family. Well, I just lost my my dad about probably 34 weeks ago. And you may think that it doesn't. It won't affect you, you know? But you've been with a guy, you know, that that cared for you that raised you that every turn in your life. He was there, Thio, to explain things to you. How does this work? Why is that bearing all shredded? Well, because of this and that and and he's trained you Maybe without knowledge that did. He just trained you because he's with you all the time. When you lose that, it just it turns your world upside down. It does. And if you don't manage it, you know, and I'm not saying you have to manage it. But if you don't manage it, then you Then you will reach a certain level of depression on. You don't want to do anything. You know, you you want to turn to the bottle. I didn't. But you know, you these air all added to that depression and believe it or not, suicide level you go. Well, I just don't want I wanna be with my dad now. I don't I don't wanna I wanna be with my wife or I wanna be with my dog or whatever. It might be that you you reach that certain level and and all you need to do is be it the right place or the wrong place at the wrong time for that chance to come up to take your life. Uh, nothing is worth taking a life. Nothing is e don't care. I don't care if you want to turn to God turn to God because God will help you, no matter what. He forgives you. And I'm not gonna preach because I'm not a preacher, but, uh, whatever to get a hobby, you know what I mean? You get involved, get your mind involved in other things. Besides, besides that, I shouldn't say dark depression because, uh, you know, you like to think about your family or your daughter, your kids, you know, And that's just from from what I've I've seen, I've seen guys that that just wanted to do it. Hey, man, would you do this? They don't get me involved. You want You want to do it, You do it. You know, don't just talk about it and then I go, Well, I I just want little sympathy. I go, I know that. So let's let's sit down. Let's talk. Let's let's go have ah, let's go have a beer. Let's go have a soda here. Let's go have a glass orange juice. Let's go have a pineapple. Let's just just spend some time with him and you'll know by just talking with him how deep they are in depression, how close they are. Thio to take in their life just by the way they talk. I don't care. I don't care that I don't care about this. I don't care about that. Right. But 

 

[00:20:56] Allen: 33 of the psychologists I talked to the deal with, uh and you know, when we talk about suicide, it's not just the person that's affected but the family but three psychologists. I talked Thio previously. They're the ones that supplied me to the links to the C. D. C and after care. And you know, all these suicide hotlines. One of the things that they said was you know, the quickest way to stop it is to talk. And a lot of people, you know, they get to the point where they're so introverted because you know, there job suffering. Because this Jr said they started drinking and they started doing these other things that people noticed that Hey, they were not as productive or, you know, simple safety violations. Like I mentioned in the intro. Uh, there is a huge thing right now where personal or getting involved, and so that they can not have safety, take care of it. And the same example I provided earlier was Bobby walks to the edge of the, uh, you know, the edge of the building. 20 ft drop. No harness. Safety writes it up is attempted suicide. So instead of firing them, it goes to HR and HR provides them with, you know, intervention. And all this because Bob 

 

[00:22:09] JR: is a good worker. Some Sometimes that does good. Sometimes it just it just turns a deeper, You know, if you if you don't, If you don't have the time to sit down with the worker, take him off the job off to the corner, take him to the doc, you know, and dangle your feet over the edge of the doctors. Not the building, but the doc and and talk to him. If you don't have time to that, you should not be in safety. 

 

[00:22:37] Allen: Yeah, and what Jerry's saying is absolutely true. You know where he was talking a minute ago about Let's have a beer. Let's do this. That's the common thing, you know. And this is for personal experience. When things were going bad, people said, Alan, let's go get a beard. Calm down. You know, you would think that this would be, uh, something, instead taking drugs. This? Oh yeah, let's have beer. Let's have a glass of wine on. And that's absolutely one of the things they tell you to absolutely avoid with a depressive person or somebody that may be suicidal is giving them a depressant, you know, in the form of alcohol. One of the tricks that one of the psychologist said is just like Jr said, Hey, let's go get some juice. Let's go get something to eat and talk 

 

[00:23:19] JR: about It doesn't have to be a shot of whiskey. I mean, it could be, Yeah, but it doesn't that it doesn't have level. Yeah, because like you said, uh, that becomes a dangling rope in the middle of a canyon. You grab it, you hang on and you hang on to that and that becomes your crutch on you start drinking. And you, you, buddy. I mean, it's like having a toilet plunger on your face, man. And once it once, it z kind of funny when you're walking around town. But I'm telling you, man, that's Yeah, I know. And it's just if you have the right color that matches your outfit, you're good to go. But if you have Ah, black, uh, thing on your face and you're wearing bright colors is not gonna work for U S O. But But once, once they grab a hold that bottle or or grab all that joint or or or that crack pipe I mean, I think I'm going kind of deep here. But But that's just the fact that that z that that's the way it is for the needle goes in your arm. I've seen the guy in the corner. I've seen the guy in the corner with. Yeah, the needle with a needle in his arm. Yeah, with a needle in his arm, dead in the doornail. And why? Why is it you look at him and you go? Why, buddy? Such a waste, man. You know, you had a good voice. Not only that, but you're only one with money, you know. I mean, why you doing that? Why do you What do you What do you buy that coke? What do you buy that crack? I mean, why? Because because it's a clutch. It's I mean, a crutch. It's also a clutch to, but But like you say, man, I mean, you know, you've been there buddy, Uh, only as an officer, but a security. Uh, you see that? You see some weird things, man. I was in the music business for for several years, uh, a struggling musician on the road, uh, in remote areas and And I had some pickers, man, that just just didn't wanna get with it. I mean, they were like, you know, they get drunk before the show. And you you play in the bars and you might have 56 people you know, in those in those, uh, Alaskan bars along the, uh, interior. Yeah, you might. You might have, Yes, but aren't dark enough? But, I mean, you know, if you and then and then you get into a big venue and and they start pee in their proverbial pants. Sorry, but that that's a fact. And they'll start drinking to calm the nerves and the feel better. And it gets to be a crutch. And you go, Oh, man, you You're such a good picker. When I was in Nashville, Lower Broadway used to go in the old the old Nashville and And, man, what a wonderful place. Nationalist. You go down there as a physician and try to make it. You're gonna hate Nashville. But I love Nashville because it turns you around and says this is success. You see a guy playing during the daytime and just awesome. Man, you go. How do you play that guitar like that, Man, you're awesome singing voice. How come you haven't made it yet? And all these questions are coming to you. And then that night you go down The Lord, By the way. You see them drunk in the alley? You go. Ah, Uh huh. Because he's a drunk or she's a drunk and nobody want in the business. Wants to deal with a drunk, Gets afraid of that association. They get on to get on stage. And they started embarrassing here. But these were things that happened that you can You can tell if you have unopened mind. You see this? You go Well, that's a worthless son of a gun. He's not doing it Well, why is he not doing it? How about three weeks ago? Four weeks to go, five weeks to go. He was an awesome worker. What's happened now? Well, go talkto sit down and talk to him. Say hey, man, how you doing? How's the family? How's your How's your animals? How's your dog? You go on with him last week or whatever. No, my dog died. Well, maybe it's only a dog, but that affect your life, right? Right, brother? 

 

[00:27:36] Allen: Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, J r and I, both pet owners, And one things we could tell you is your baby's or family. And 

 

[00:27:46] JR: there's a lot of 

 

[00:27:46] Allen: trouble for people that's never had kids. And Jeremy, I'm thankful you brought that up. There are people that are devastated by the loss of an animal because they don't have kids or they don't have a spouse on that. Was there one source of pleasure, you know, But the one thing that Gerald mentioned, too, One of the reasons that suicide is so prevalent right now in the trades. And, you know, just talking about what J r. And I were talking about earlier. If you look at that same list and you look at the specific occupational groups, you know, number four for suicide, structural, iron and steel workers number five is mill rights. I mean, who would thought of a millwright being so depressed? But then brick Masons number 68 was automotive and technicians, mechanics, nine machinists, 10 construction labors. I mean, there's not a lot in between the actual trades. And the workers 14 was carpenters, welders, fitters, welders and pipe fitters. The guys you see on the pipelines, the guys you see all throughout Alaska, the top 15 these air out of Ah, you know, numerous occupations there in the top 20 at number 15 and then construction equipment operators. Uh, number 18 17 is labor freight stocking material handlers. But here's where Safety, uh, really gets involved under 19 and 21. The construction managers and safeties of all these craft out of the top 20 are ones involved in suicide themselves. Uh, according Thio available data. You know, there's not a lot of resource is that give us a person's mindset. There's nobody except for the family, the safety and the managers in number 19 of the top 20 suicides. You know, a lot of them were job displacement, and that's all it waas. And now with cove, it it's escalated. You could go on Facebook and go on linked in and just see hundreds of safety people managers saying, Hey, we're shut down. You know, our construction site was shut down because how do you clean? You know, 1500 areas in common touch surfaces and stuff like that, Right? But the thing that J. R. Said that stands out the most people, the one thing that you gotta take away when it comes to suicide, you know, it's all these crafts were involved. The one thing you have to do is as a safety as a manager or held just another hand in the field is if you see a sudden change. Uh, there's all kinds of signs, you know, there's all kinds of information out there, you know? That says, Hey, this is a sign of, uh, you know, someone's getting ready to eat a bullet. Somebody's Gary. And yes, it's very black, You know what I'm saying to you? But we're talking about something that serious, that you don't need to be pissing away because you said it's not gonna happen on my site. Well, I'm looking here at the CDC report on what happens on those sites, and it is gonna happen. If it's in the top 20 it's gonna happen. So pay attention to your surroundings, uh, 

 

[00:30:56] JR: contingency plan. What are you going to do if it happens? 

 

[00:30:59] Allen: Like Jr said, you see someone with a loss of interests and normal activities. You know where you see a sudden change on the job site? Uh, you know, those are things changes in appetite, worthless as a guilty anxiety or restlessness. Thes air, things that's gonna stand out on your job because you're working and you're walking around. You're gonna notice these things. Um, you know, I can tell you that the person's suicidal, you know? But these air things, these air trigger points that you're gonna see that could come up and that you're gonna notice because you know your people. If you don't, then you need to get the hell out of safety. If 

 

[00:31:34] JR: you want you 

 

[00:31:35] Allen: and ask, say, I don't know this 

 

[00:31:37] JR: person that 

 

[00:31:38] Allen: the supervisor does, then get out. You're not a bad person. You're just not observing enough. 

 

[00:31:43] JR: Safety is not your deal. You may, you may, You may go. And you may go and be a machinist to be the best that's God's ever seen in their or anybody's ever seen your life. Everybody has Yeah, yeah, yeah, You may you may make a good convict too. You never know. You mean well, you're in the wrong business. You should be a convict. 

 

[00:32:04] Allen: But to help you find other information on how to find signs of depression and again, depression does not mean the person's suicidal. These you're doing your root cause. Analysis of changes and everything. These air What you're gonna look at now, when we come back, we're gonna talk about simple remedies because I told you about my experience with Wellbutrin. You don't have to hear it from me. You can go ask other people about the significant side effects from common pharmaceuticals, not saying it's a bad thing, but because each of us have a different body chemistry, we all respond differently. So when Jan are get back, we're gonna talk about simple vitamins, simple things that you could do before you go to that next level to see. Maybe that's all it is. Your low on B 12 your low on estrogen. You're high on testosterone. Uh, maybe your wife has been slipping Benadryl on you. We don't know, you know, and don't eat. Bill Cosby is putting. You don't know what you're gonna wake up to. So when we get back Natural, 

 

[00:33:06] JR: we're gonna have some putting. That's from putting. In a moment. We'll be back with life of a safety professional with Alan, the safety Guy and just a moment. Hi, this is J. R. Kitchens, audio engineer, editor and announcer for Alan, the Safety guy dragging up 6.0, podcast. Are you starting a new podcast or having existing podcast already running? I can help you with commercials, intros out Rose or even edit your podcast for you. More info on pricing email me at J R Productions at allen Woolford dot com. That's Jr Productions at allen Woolford dot com and I look forward to hearing from you. And now we return to our podcast with Alan the safety guy. So, 

 

[00:33:54] Allen: jr, uh, I love again that you helped support this endeavor. And, you know, I I hope this continues because you know, this special podcast, this one that means something to me and so many others you know would not have been happening had it not been for you. Oh, 

 

[00:34:13] JR: that's what I do, man. That's what ideo. 

 

[00:34:15] Allen: Just to give you an idea, you know Gerald will critique me on stuff about. I mean, simple things. Like where to put my mouth in relationship to the microphone. Little things that you know. 

 

[00:34:25] JR: Don't Don't be on your pants. 

 

[00:34:27] Allen: Well, I got those. We talked about this. I put the pads around the chair, but we'll go into that later. Um, but again, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being here. And, you know, I can't say enough, Jr. God bless you. I love you to death, brother. And for helping 

 

[00:34:43] JR: us you. 

 

[00:34:45] Allen: But, you know, getting back into this, ladies and gentlemen or any if you're undecided, I'm sorry. It's 2020. I'm supposed to cover all bases and be thoughtful, and h are relevant. But you know, the suicidal portion, it affects us all again. It affected? Yes, Uh, back in 2006 my last year in law enforcement and because of the thoughts that went through the head, you know, me turning over my side arm. Uh, I knew it was time to get out. I had met my match, and my match was my own mind. And it is a powerful thing. Any negativity that you hold inside, um could turn the tables for you. It could change the way you look at your day. And it could change the way that you approach people. It could change so much. And in the blink of an eye, you just decide I'm tired. 

 

[00:35:38] JR: Yeah, and it consumes it consumes your mind. All you just like. It's like if your wife leaves you, you know, it consumes your mind. You go. I don't know, man. You know. Is Bobby there? You know, you know, if you don't want to talk Thio just it consumes your mind. It za disease almost, man. And you guys, I 

 

[00:36:05] Allen: know this is hard, Jr. And I are trying to get you a lot of information. I'm gonna have a lot of resource is on the website. Oh, numbers that you can call, you know, And I'm talking to you because there are other safeties. There's other people like J r and I that have worked remote, uh, that have come to an impasse, or you feel like there's no hope. There is hope. Um, simple 

 

[00:36:28] JR: things, simple things. Well, we'll set. Will set. Things will set it off. Simple things like, uh oh, I don't know, Like like you do a great job. And then one day, maybe you're you're driving a forklift. One day you tip over a pallet and you go, Oh, man, my whole life is ruined. No, Pick him up. Oh, come up and wrap him and put him away. But simple things like, well, then I had an accident, or the company's gonna disown me if you If you're a good safety officer, that's the first thing you attend to now to make sure that they're okay. But you bedside manner is don't you worry about your job. Just put that out of your mind right now. Don't you worry about your job. Uh, well, just little things. The other things that it will set you off. Oh, man, my wife or your wife says to you. Well, when can you go back to work? Uh, well, as soon as they saw my head up, I'll be right back to work, honey. Uh, 

 

[00:37:28] Allen: but yeah, like Jared, I said, it hits you hard in the head. It hits you hard in the heart, you know, especially when your family inadvertently you know, adds on to it. You know that? Just a simple question. Jerry said when you go back to work. You know, for many men, this is a huge issue. And, you know, one of the things that I did because I saw how far I dropped, and I saw how great you know, the people on these remote places and when I mean remote give you an idea. The island that J. R. And I worked on because of Okay, security reasons. I'm not gonna tell you how many people hold that facility, but yeah, it's not very many. Two 

 

[00:38:12] JR: miles by four miles. Yeah, that's it. 

 

[00:38:14] Allen: Yeah. I mean, 

 

[00:38:15] JR: and one great, awesome one. Great, awesome radio station, 

 

[00:38:19] Allen: Blue Fox. Never forget Blue Fox radio. But in learning this and learning about how the great people reached out to be the simple things that pulled me from the edge, was somebody just saying, Hey, what's your problem? You know, you're acting like a complete ask. You're ignoring people that you normally talk 

 

[00:38:37] JR: thio people for no reason. Yeah, 

 

[00:38:40] Allen: And when I would go to others and say, Hey, look, yeah, I know you don't want to call that 800 number. You're worried about your clearance. You're worried about people knowing this uh, I went jailer. I actually did do this while we were in Alaska, I became an ordained chaplain, and it wasn't to marry people. Uh, and if you're curious about this, should go to get ordained dot org's look up a minister and put in the ZIP code 37725 and it'll pull up my profile and, you know, it says on there. My experience is 110 months. This is something I usually don't talk about because I do talk to people that worked in areas such the JR and I did work in. But if you read about it, says to provide non denominational I'm I'm not, Ah, Bible thumper. I 

 

[00:39:33] JR: believe the key. The key is nondenominational, 

 

[00:39:36] Allen: but if you read it because I personally been involved in this, it says to provide non denominational support to veterans, law enforcement, first responders, contractors and those in the trades who are affected by pressure events and demands of the profession. I provide an unbiased here. That's the key word that Jarrah brought up earlier. Listen to what they're saying to those that need to be heard and the conduit for you. Voice your concerns to someone that understands the path which you're traveling and many of the life changing fears that you faced as an Army and law enforcement veteran as well as a clear contractor. I understand the restrictions and demand you face and confidentially. Ality is always guaranteed because people worry about that. There's cases where they have to report it. And 

 

[00:40:23] JR: thats understand they don't form is a form for it. Yes, absolutely yes, sir. 

 

[00:40:29] Allen: So again, that's get ordained or G go down to search a minister if you need to talk to somebody that's been in the trades, been in law enforcement, call me. You know, I will provide you with somebody in your area. Uh, there's a suicide network there. There's just somebody you could talk, Teoh, you know that you don't have to worry about. 

 

[00:40:48] JR: Yeah, And these people are on the phone and not just high school kids. They get out of ah, uh school and do a night job and their volunteers, and they know what they're doing. They they've been where you are or where you might be and and they understand. I was working. Uh, we're gonna radio station somewhere in Illinois I won't say where, but I had a veteran come in and he combat veteran overseas in Iraq or someplace like that. Bangladesh or somewhere on, uh, not toe. Be little that that war at all? Uh, it was just a bad asses. Any other war? Um, I was at the station and he came in. He says who? Who in the heck runs that radio stations such and such? On what? Well, that Z satellite. Well, I want to talk to him. I understand. But its satellite, the Jack, is in New York City and they go, I want to talk to him. I want to talk to the president of the company. E go. Well, the president of companies downstairs. But you know he'll talk to you, but you're wishing your time and your your claiming, uh, guilt on somebody. That was it doesn't even know anything about it. Because our Joxer on man, he was ready to whip somebody. He was mad. He was he was round up and you could tell in his eyes and and his verb egx that he was there. And I mean, he was He was like, ready toe. Just do it he didn't care. So they said, We're gonna call the police. I go. Well, wait a minute. Give me a minute. I go, Dude. Sit down, man. What's up? How you doing? Well, I just I mean, I'm stressed, You know, in all this, I would do not know what you're talking about. I've been there, you know, Uh, don't let it bother you so much. Let it go. You know, it's it's just it's a radio jock that is in New York City. And if he said something that upset you, he's not talking to you necessarily. He's talking to, um, the radio audience, and And you are one that's listening. So and actually, yes, he's talking to you, But But come on, man. You know, lighten up. So the police got there, and, uh, I'm sure that they had reasons for calling the police. So he went out to his car and and and it escalated because he called the police. So it escalated. You know, the police got there and and he's figured he's gonna have to fight his way out, which is not the case. And and so I mean ah, in comparison, it's often left field. But but veterans that have been to combat or haven't even been to combat that that were our domestic. You know, uh, still have those issues of being away from home being hit sometimes by their drill instructors. I know you can't do that anymore. But when I was when I was in boot camp, they beat the hell out of me, buddy. They beat the hell out of me, and and and I did. I deserve it. I don't think so. But they did anyway. So did it bother me? Did Did they take me away from me? No, they didn't. I wouldn't let him. But but still, uh, even if your domestic soldier or veteran, you don't even have to be a veteran, you know, just just still a worker, that little things will. We'll put you there, man, and all of a sudden you be a f you, buddy, F You know, screw your job. I don't wanna work here anymore. Hell with you and go. Hey, dude. What? What man? What's what's bothering you? Come here. Let's talk. You know, uh, it just takes that that minute. Now, keep in mind that if you talk to that man. You're gonna have to receive his phone calls. Uh, you know, at all times to tonight. And don't be afraid to that. Absolutely. Just just that's your job is a safety person in my eyes. Get off your but and get out in the field and pay attention to how your workers air being treated. Pay attention to how your workers feel. Pay attention to how your workers work. You could tell by the pattern root causes you say root cause what caused his temperament? Something did something, set him off. Something just turned around. And and it's a sick feeling if you if you're the one, it's a sick feeling in your belly. You know, you know it's coming, but but you just can't control it or you can eat away. It's still gonna affect you. And in some ways that maybe it is uncontrollable for you. And David is an imbalance in in vitamins, you know? Yeah, maybe. Maybe it's imbalance and and and some of the things that you eat some of the things that you drink, um, if you if you fall in that bottle, that's gonna affect your whole bunch anyway. Just some of the things you could see if you open your eyes and pay attention, Just don't go through life like I'm me. I pay attention to me and sure you 

 

[00:45:59] Allen: One of the things I wanted to reiterate that Jared brought up, you know, way talked about. And we're not giving medical advice. I'm giving you advice based on personal experience. Talk to your doctor having open conversation, Sam depressed and and simply asked him, Hey, you know, I've got these issues going on. I've got these things that I'm feeling, you know, ask for your blood work. It's amazing what you can find out, Uh, simply by having your blood work done. And one of the things you know that they'll say is like, Well, yeah, this is something that you should look at. Uh, this is something that you know we can address, But I mean, believe or not, a simple thing such as a low vitamin B 12 can affect so many people. It happens all the time and the same thing I said about, you know, with depression where Jared and I were talking about in Alaska. One of the first things they did was to change the lighting. It's called Satellite, and what it does is it simulates vitamin D. Uh, simple thing of eating chocolate. But when you're looking at this again, we're not diagnosing. You were telling you one of the simplest things you could do. Let's say to depress. We know a lot of it's gonna have to do with the job stress. But because you have hormones or you have mineral deficiencies, you could start by saying, Let me go get a B 12 shot After I get some blood work done, let me assess how I am doing physically, you know? And one thing that was really evident when I became severely depressed was my cortisol levels jumped up and I jumped. If you've never seen pictures, I'll put it on the page and reference this. My weight jumped up to £330. I mean, just stress eating stupid diet. And once we found out, we started to work with it. So, you know, this goes into the last segment of this about alternative medicines, and again we want you J R. And I want you to talk to your physician. We want you to follow local laws and guidelines and policies with your company. But one of the things that saved me, uh, you know, and a lot of people I've talked to you, they can't stand it. They despise it. They said, no, it's just another version upon is CBD And I understand their misgivings. I understand that back in the day when you went for a five or 10 panel, it didn't list THC. If you if you Google old drug test things. CBD was one of the items that looked at and then they found out THC was actually what they were looking at that caused the narcotic effect. But what kills me when I was teaching a class, you are not too long ago, we were talking about case management and for all those not involved in a case management. When you have an injured employees and then you take him to the clinic and you follow up on what's going on, the thing that kills me that pisses me off to no end is so many safety will say no, I don't mind these taken opiates because it's doctor prescribed and it's like, Okay, e no, You tried to get him to get ibuprofen. That was not gonna be working for that type of injury. But why are you resistant to CBD? It's all natural. Nobody's adding anything, you know. You don't have to worry. Is it 100? 203 100 

 

[00:49:22] JR: million? Yeah, there is no THC and CBD 

 

[00:49:25] Allen: Now, there have been some just say no, Jared. They dio what's called a certificate of analysis. And for those listening, I've been using CBD for years. That's how well it works for me. Um, you know, it's got lots of different uses. I'm not gonna tell you what it is, because if I tell you, then you're gonna just come back and say, Hey, that's Allen's opinion. This is what it did for, um, if you could see what it did to my mother, you know, I can't even begin to describe some of the injuries and some of the physiological and psychological stuff that's going on for a person of her age. By giving the CBD, it stopped tremors and stop panicking. It's not THC. We had the certificate of analysis, but there are some, you know, some people, depending on how they process it, there is trace amounts. 

 

[00:50:17] JR: You take oil from water. And if you don't know what you're doing, you're gonna leave some oil in that water vice a versa. Eso if you don't. If you don't have the right process, then, uh, you're gonna have some, uh, some symptoms of it in there s So if you if you buy from 

 

[00:50:38] Allen: Yeah, hypothetically, have you ever, uh, consume THC in the point where you went, robbed the place or you felt suicidal? No. You know, you 

 

[00:50:50] JR: know, and I consumed, I consumed a lot of THC. I actually had a jug of THC, and I would go out and party with it. And No, I'm kidding. Uh, no, I I've never had any problem other than eating a bag of potato chips. That's that's probably right on Kentucky Fried Chicken. But a 

 

[00:51:11] Allen: teenager? We've been getting a lot of backlash. Uh, I was telling people about and you'll I will gladly send you my drug toxicology reports. Uh, from where? I've done both hair follicle testing and all. I will show you the times I purchased it. Yes. You have to be careful where you get your CBD. You don't want to just be going up for some guy at Costco and saying, Hey, I like that Oil is all the olive oil. It's a special olive oil. There are no alternatives. And the recent were, for me, pain mitigation, uh, stress, because remember, a lot of the suicides, A lot of things we're talking about our stressors, things that just overload the mind is you know, Gerald was mentioned your once your mind gets that black hole in it, it does nothing but you Sure one of the things that I'm proud of is, uh, you know, in recent years, I started helping the organization called C T f o Change the future outcome, promote their CBD. I've never personally sold it to anybody, but I've said, Hey, here's what I'm taking. Try it. And I've had people you know in the past two years, they've tried and said, Oh, my God, this helps with the inflammation. I'd give them a 10 panel, one that you could buy at CVS. Walgreens. I'm not promoting. I'm just promoting you pick up a 10 panel test with this. Take a you a You know, just go over there and you say, Hey, you know, let me. Let me watch to make sure you're not do anything. It's like, What the hell, Alan? They fill the cup. You're going to pass now. If they send it, you know, there are some restrictions. I understand D o t drivers and all that. But again, if you talk to your health care provider and say, Hey, I need this, you know, work with your safety people. If they're gonna let workers with opioids and, you know, codings and stuff on the job site, you know, I'd be surprised if they if you have a physician, not THC, not THC. Say, Hey, we're giving them the CBD for any inflammatory purposes. Reduce the stress, you know, so that no matter what testy takes, you don't need an m r o, you know, to qualify this. So in having said that, you know, J R and I have tried to convey to you we understand we have been there. We've been with boots on the ground. Uh, we've been in the positions where you've had to deal with people that, you know, you had to call back from the edge and 

 

[00:53:40] JR: being a being a leader in some companies and border directors and whatnot. Uh, and if anybody ever asked me, what would you rather do? First, would you rather be a corporate officer first or would you be a worker first? I would say 10 times out of 10. I would rather be a worker first, because the thing is, is you understand better once you reached that plateau of business corporate where you understand you're gonna drop the eagle, Man, You know, there's things that were happening within the company that you can control a za long as you let up a little bit. Drop that bull whip, get down there in the in the company and see what's going on. If if there's a person that is an alcoholic or not an alcoholic, maybe just a fine, no happy duty drunk. And you have this issue where you have to have a hair of the dog every day. What I mean is for some people that aren't exactly, uh, don't be afraid to go to the company for help. Yes, because the company will help you if they don't. Exactly. If they don't, right, they would rather sin you to alcohol treatment, drug abuse, treatment, uh, things like that rather than you have an accident or fatality. Yeah, because let me tell you, man, if you're drinking and I'm working, I don't want you drinking around me, because I don't. It's not myself that will get that will cause an accident. It's you that will cause me to have an accident. So as a as a safety guy, I would say a Come on, man. Come with me. Let me talk to you a little bit. Don't just drag him in the office and say, Hey, this guy's a drunk. Get him some help. You're gonna freak the guy out. So the best thing to do is talk to him. They're going to be in denial. You just have to talk to him and say, Man, listen, this is free of charge, buddy. We're gonna send you Thio Thio Center. That's gonna take care of you. You're gonna live in the center you're gonna take The companies will do that. If they don't, then they're not a company that shouldn't be in business. 

 

[00:55:53] Allen: Yeah, and you need, you know, that's where dragging up comes up. If you find something where you're in a situation like that, like we said the trades drag up, Get your shit, get out the gate leaving behind you know, because everybody says, Oh, we, you know, this is our program and you know, we have a great safety culture and and they say that because it's advertising. There are some companies that really are great. I will not deny that. But again, you know, like Jr said, like the great team, uh, from the Safety Justice League put out there, All it takes is to go up and say, How are you doing when we come back? Jr. And I'll recap this episode, and you know one of the things we want to stress out there. We understand that people are under stress. We understand where you're at. We've had our boots on that many other 

 

[00:56:46] JR: great exactly on that very ground that you had your boots on. If you have any questions about CBD, there's a company out there. It's called and correct me If I'm wrong. Rack ops. CBD dot com rack ops CBD dot com That's r A C K o P s, um CBD dot com S o e can edit that. 

 

[00:57:15] Allen: Yes, on one of the great things about this. You here in just a second rack. Cops is American, made American own. Now? Yes, there, CBD all over the world. But you're getting this from a retired Special Forces veteran who is involved with Third Special Forces Group. It's locally produced. He produces it. There's no middle men, great people. Great. Use the code. You know, once you go on there, there, you know, if you wanna try it again within the permissible limits of you know, your doctor or your personal condition, you know, one things is there's a coupon and that will be on the website, and we'll get back to you in just a moment. 

 

[00:57:55] JR: We'll be back with life of a safety professional with Alan the safety guy and chest a moment. No doubt you've heard discussions about CBD oil adds air, saturating the marketplace on billboards, magazines, social media and news reports. But what is it? Joe Revis, former Green Beret CEO and founder of rock cops CBD, explained. 

 

[00:58:21] spk_2: I created a fully vertical operation from the seed to the bottle to ensure that veterans they're getting the best quality see either is I believe in transparency and trust and the same goes for rock off CBD, myself and a lot of veterans. We came back from overseas los and confused, looking for something to put a banding on that moral injury that we had inside of us. A lot of us went to the bars. A lot of us did drugs. After the end of the day. We suffered along with our loved ones, watching us go through this pain. We all been down range, guys, we've all breathe in chemicals. We all breathed in burning tires and trash in the streets. And it's not fair for us to come back to the States and get more harmful chemicals and pills down our throat. I just want you guys to remember. Veterans are the backbone of this country. Stay out of the fog and stay in the fight. Guys. 

 

[00:59:09] JR: Rakoff CBD is not just for veterans. Thousands of construction, industrial and public safety personnel use this natural compound to replace prescribed opiates and other potentially dangerous pharmaceuticals, which are not only a major cause of prescription abuse but may have secondary and sometimes fatal side effects. Timothy s best product by far Rack office has helped my sleep in PTSD I've been using this product daily for a few months now. And if successfully stopped taking prescription sleeping medication and mood stabilizers announce sleep faster and the quality of sleep is amazing. But don't take my word for it. Go to www dot rock cops CBD dot com and read their words for yourself. This information is not to replace medical advice or directives. Openly discuss alternatives with your health care provider and it sure it's use is safe for you. Rock up CBD dot com Made in the USA and now we return to our podcast with Alan the safety guy. We're 

 

[01:00:16] Allen: back, and I appreciate everybody listening. I hope you learn something again. We're gonna have more information on the website. Uh, if not for you, pass it along to the people like Jr said. You know, you go up, you talk to him. You know, I'll make sure there's a PDF sheet that gives you step by step stuff that you could do, you know, approach and communicate with them. 

 

[01:00:38] JR: If you're if you're safe. If your safety officer and you take it seriously, yes, um, then then get off your tail and get on the field and see what your people are about. See what? Your how your management is treating your people. Um, if you got a guy that that's screaming and yelling at people that's going to stretch them out, that's going to cause people not to pay attention to their job on which is also a fact of, uh uh, Depression will take your attention away from your job on and you'll you'll be thinking all the time you'll be thinking in the clouds. And if you're an operator, you're gonna kill somebody if you're. If you're a worker, you're gonna you're gonna You're gonna be too far off the bead. You're gonna You're gonna cause problems with the pipe. If you're a carpenter, you're gonna hit your finger, you know? So if you got to get your bun out in the field and and check things out, paperwork is important that don't don't get me wrong. Paperwork is important. Your spreadsheets are important because they tell a story. They give you a track record, and then that's that's the thing to do. But get on the field and and check your people out, see how they're doing. Uh, check the stress level uh, simple stuff. You could do that just by going up and talking to him or or or uh, give me a written test. Tell them you got an evaluation coming up and give a written test of a few questions and help him with it. You know, that way you get the feel of what you're doing. That's what things. That's it, man. 

 

[01:02:09] Allen: If you guys and guys, this is this is not mad. This is something I've been reading for personal use. Um, you know it if you want a great introduction on how to approach people and really, uh, Chris Voss, if you've never heard of him, I use not a friend of mine. I'm not associated with him in any shape, form or fashion. I've never spoken to him. We don't Snapchat each other. Chris Voss is a retired FBI negotiator, and he's got a credible book out right now called Never split The difference. It's about negotiating, but where he gives information about tagging and some of the techniques that he uses in order to get, you know, hostages freed or toe work with bank robbers, you'd be amazed at how well you'll get somebody to open up about little issues, uh, that affect him. Because a lot of people, once they get to that level, you know, they're gonna lock it up. 

 

[01:03:08] JR: Simple words can change the attitude. So simple words? 

 

[01:03:12] Allen: Absolutely, Brother. So following the guidance, you know of many great safety people again? No. Your people watch your behavior based safety protocols. Uh, but don't think you could just go in with a CFR and change in attitude. There may be something that they brought in from outside the gate that you need to address to keep everybody or just yourself safe. So again, that's never split the difference by Chris Voss, retired FBI senior negotiator, and J R. Thank you, brother, for your time today. Thank you for all the great advice you put out 

 

[01:03:47] JR: there. I love it. I e I love it. I'm a radio guy in any any form of that just keeps me active, and it keeps my mind active. And, yeah, I appreciate working with good people yourself 

 

[01:03:59] Allen: and you all again if you were developing a podcast or any type of event and you're not sure how to get things together, Uh, you know, just reach out Thio Jr Productions at allen Woolford dot com. That's a l l e n w o f f a r d dot com He's the best in the business not to downplay anybody else but jars the best. And you're just gonna have to deal with that shit. 

 

[01:04:25] JR: I'm gonna work up some money out. Five bucks. Be good enough. 

 

[01:04:29] Allen: That sounds good, brother. 

 

[01:04:30] JR: Okay, I'll get that sent. I sent that to your western. Yeah, we love you out 

 

[01:04:35] Allen: there. We thank you for listening. 

 

[01:04:37] JR: Yes, we do. 

 

[01:04:37] Allen: And please remember, plan, prepare, communicate and engage everybody. 

 

[01:04:42] JR: See you next time. I see you next time. The views expressed on this program are solely the opinions of the host and guest, not necessarily those of their employer committee division or any other group or individual. This podcast has attended for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing within this recording is intended to be used for legal guidelines as representation for any entity. No portion of this podcast maybe reproduced without the express full consent of Alan, the safety guy. You've been listening to Alan, the safety guy. If you'd like to be on the show or have a comment. Allen at Allenwood for dot com or call 91043164379104316437 Thanks for joining us and have a great day. Be safe.