brought to you by Safety Safety FM dot life Hello and welcome to the all new addition of the jail and Joe Today's Tuesday, June, the 16th of 2020. Thank you for coming back to listen to another edition of the J. Allen show. We're coming to You Live from the Safety FM's studios in Orlando, Florida How are you doing? Hopefully everything is going well in your neck of the woods today. I have the honor and the privilege to speaking to Matthew Herring. If the name sounds familiar, there is a reason behind that.  And let me tell you why Mr Harun has over 10 years of experience as a practicing safety professional. He has worked in a wide range of industries, including health care research and development out of motive and aerospace, in which he has developed, implemented and maintained a waiter's programs and management systems. He has an expertise in applying occupational safety, engineering, economics, human factors and industrial engineering principles to solve complex health and safety issues. He currently serves as a senior safety engineer for the mechanical engineering division at Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, Texas.  In his role he oversees and leads the continual improvement efforts for the divisions. Ice 0 45,001 based safety program. Today we have the privilege to speak with the original bearded safety guy here on the J. Allen show. Sometimes when I come into this hold music I g Oh, I don't know what disaster we're putting people through, so I apologize. Bad. How are you doing? Very well. I was actually hoping you could put the put the interview on hold so I could listen to music some, or I don't think anybody has ever called me that.  But I was like, What is this? It is like I think of you is what I heard. The moment I turned everything on was I got this is probably not gonna be good for me with this. I think it's a standard elevator music, you know? Well, you that's what we were told. The place. Sometimes it's instrumental, so it's not terrible, but it But it just depends on which kind of music you like. Well, man, I appreciate you doing this. I know that most of time. Just like when I contact people like why out of the blue?  Are you contacting You know, I really appreciate the opportunity, Mrs Great. I really enjoy what you guys were doing. Um, you know, with with all of the different podcast, um, you know, inspiring the next generation of safety professionals and definitely helping the ones that are, you know, out there right now. Well, I mean, way started this. We started taking a look at it and we said, Hey, there's there's a gap And I figured that, you know, maybe we can try to assist and see what happens, but yeah, I mean, I will tell you as I started doing some looks and looks around and doing some research when I found you, it was like the bearded safety guy.  And I was like, I was like, That's a different approach than most take. So how did you start off with the Monica, or did you grow the thing out? And you were in safety? You? How does this whole thing happened? Yes. So I was in safety before that. And, you know, I just kept growing it out. You know, I'd say that there were some sort of ah divine intervention or something like that, or Ah, but I think it was really, um it's about laziness on their efficiency.  That's what. Straight forward. Very honest. Starting off there. I like it. Yeah, but But it really turned into, you know, um, for me, you know, I meet a lot of different people, conferences and things like that. Um, and so people remember me by the beard, and so I've really found that that it's a useful tool, if you will. So is there. Is there a secret to how you've made this thing? Grout. And how many years did it take before it became the thing that it is on your linked in picture?  Now, I don't know how updated are outdated. That picture is so who even knows what it looks like? Narrate. Yeah. It's actually a fairly recent picture beginning of this year, and it's it's taken me a little over four years to grow that. So wow. Very good. Very good. What got you started through the whole path of safety? Why did you decide to do this? Why did this career excite you? Well, it's just like every other safety professional. I don't think it excites. People say, I think, uh, you know, as you get into it.  You realize that? You know, the your passion takes over and, um, but what I found Ah, basically, Oh, gosh, it's been over 10 10 years now. Ah, I was working for a company that did testing and calibration services for the military aerospace telecommunications industries. And they asked me to join their health and safety committee. And, um, I started, like, getting really heavy into ergonomics and just helping people on beam or efficient and like it clicked. And that's when I found my passion not only for safety, but for helping people.  I will tell you. I am right down the road from where you were doing ergonomics and helping out there. Really? I know exactly what you're talking about. Within a few miles, it all comes full circle. So? So that started you down the path. What did you like so much about it? What was the portion that you said? Okay, this seems like a good thing to continue with. Well, I think, um, I guess kind of taking a step back. Um, I hold on a second. I'm tryingto try thinking I got into this, Uh, I I actually ah, you know, what?  That was actually one of the things that drew me into going back to school. And so I had the opportunity. Teoh, go to the University of Michigan where they actually have a NIOSH sponsored program there for, um, safety, engineering and ergonomics. And so, um, I just really started toe love the ah, the marriage between those two, if you will. Just having the ability toe look at a process and put that together, um, and then pairing it with safety through ergonomics and things like that. It was just Ah, uh, it really sparked my creativity and, uh, created the career that I'm in now.  So how did you like going from Florida to Michigan? Well, I'm originally from Georgia. Don't hold that against me. I live in the South of ST Might, Um, so, yeah, it's definitely a different Um uh, climate shock, a swells culture shock in some cases. Um, but I've actually really enjoyed it. I don't mind the cold. It's really driving in the snow on the ice. Um, that's the real pain. But Michiganders are great people. I really enjoyed being up there and, um, been back a few times, visit the alma mater and everything and and go to see some good friends up there.  So So as your career actually develops in your doing these different things, what do you do? You end up doing next steps. What is it? Has kept you okay, This is what I'm gonna push forward with. And this is the reason behind it. I've had some. Really? Good. Um, I've been very fortunate to have some really good mentors. Ah, in my, um, my past And right now, actually, um, And so just quickly, especially if they're listening, you have to make sure you say that you have money.  So towards at the moment, um, and it's really kind of helped guide my career path. And, you know, one of those is taking the steps to, um, just personal development and my professional development that through, um, going to SSP conferences in SC. Those types of things listen into these wonderful podcasts, and, uh, you know, it's really that I don't know. I've got some sort of internal drive that I have to improve systems so that that's that's really what keeps me going. And you know how How can we do things better I just wanted to tell you I have a new book, and it seems kind of timely, although I didn't write it for a global pandemic.  And by the way, this is my 1st 1 It seems to have lots of legs on this topic. The book's called When the Worst Accident Happens, and it's a field guide to understanding how to begin a restorative process of responding to a horrible event. That book is available now on Amazon. I think you'd like it. Tell all your friends way are back on the Jalen Show on Safety and you've been doing this for a little bit here and you're going to see some changes in the market anywhere.  I think there were at the phase now where we're kind of seeing a lot of people hungry for what is that? I won't say the next big thing, but they're starting to see like changes. There's some people that enjoy behavior based safety or system ones, or how are we want to look at it and there's some people that enjoy hop, and there's some people that enjoy it lean and all these kind of different things when you take a look at the market being is that your ableto do so many different things.  What do you What do you see? Being the next big change from your perspective. And I'm not asking for the crystal ball apart, because I know sometimes I have a very bad habit of doing that. No, I you know, I think, you know, behavior based safety. And it's been around for 25 years, but I think it's really come to fruition coming into its own. Um, you know, obviously hop like you mentioned. Um, I think, um, you know, total worker health is on the cusp right now, Um, especially with, um Cove in 19 being here.  And I think the put putting the focus on personal mental health, I think it is definitely going to be something that comes out of this pandemic. Um, e think that's one of those things that there's not a lot of conversation about. I mean, I think towards like, right before Kobe, 19 occurred. There were some people that started talking about mental health, especially people inside of the safety industry, because on some of the things that they get her in her interact with. I mean, it's the love hate relationship.  I I love the safety person when they're helping out and something good has happened, or if something terrible has happened and they're pointing this out. Maybe the person that went through the catastrophic event has a little bit more love than the rest. At least that's in some of the places that I've seen. And then I see where there's some difficulties when people transition back home from being at work where they don't feel so much love for say so as we start having these conversations. And now we've been in this locked down method for quite a period of time.  What do you think that's gonna have impact on? Let's see the safety professional themselves. You know, I think, um, I've been fortunate enough to have a job during this time. And and, ah, you know, I've got 300 workers. Total 2/3 of that workforce has gone home toe work from home. But I've had 100 are so technicians here, Um you know, keeping the daily grind going. Eso I think, you know, kind of the Reina reintegration back to work, getting people used to that normal pace being, You know, not that they've been off scheduled per se, but I think, you know, being at home, it definitely has a different mindset to it.  I was just talking to one of my engineers that was in the office this morning. He's like, You know, I I've been at home for so long. I I love my family, but I really need toe come to work and focus on that. And I completely understand, uh, you know, he was He was telling me, You know how it's been. It's been great being there, but it's really affecting. His life is an engineer, and his life is a father and and husband and things like that. So, um tryingto refined that balance, I think, is going to be interesting for everybody.  Um, especially moving forward, you know, and hopefully we'll be able to find find a vaccine for this, and and the things can return to a improved normal, not new, nor because it could mean so many different things, depending on how you look at it now, it's interesting that you bring up his perspective because here's where I have had some conversations, and there's some similarities there where people are saying, Well, you know, I love my family but you know, it is kind of putting a little bit of strain on my work life because of some of the same.  Inglis is be realistic. If you have Children at home and all the thing you have to take care of a child at the same time that you're trying to work, it becomes a little bit of a difficulty as you're doing it. But what I've also heard, some people say, especially the ones that are been able to continue working day in, day out, not necessarily from home. But let's say, for instance, from inside of the organization inside of a facility, they have actually taken the approach because I don't know why.  But most of the times when people say, Hey, someone's working from home I don't know why it all automatically turns into like they're vacationing or taking the day off, which I don't think that's the case, but some people make that make that understanding. But I have had conversations where people turn around that are inside of a Sicilians. They'll say what we've done the work without you. Until this point so maybe we can continue without your position. So are you running into any kind of difficulty from that standpoint, where some of the workers that you're saying see day in day out are having that approach to the people that are actually working from home?  If that's way too deep, I can understand what you might be on to be a little bit generic with which I entirely understand I can. I appreciate that. And, um, I think we're such a cohesive organization. I don't see it that way. I think that, um I think that we're actually we're gaining some actual been more benefits. And I think we've actually had some productivity increases because of that. Um, you know, and I think that moving forward, we will evaluate trying to incorporate more people working from home, actually, and I think there's some value there because I think that sometimes some people will try to do the work.  Arounds of that makes sense where they might have a family engagement or something that occurs out of the ordinary. So they'll put in the extra hours, which is a good and a bad thing, depending on how you want to look at it. I also look at it from a safety standpoint where, let's say, for instance, have really using, like the guidelines they have, like in the cow, Ole Hsieh's of the world. So unlike in California, where you are still responsible, if somebody's working from home from a from oceans perspective, so you're still responsible for ergonomics and so wine and things that might happen inside of inside of the home there, even though it's not, let's say, for instance, the work facility.  Do you think that somewhere like where you're located down in the South? Do you think that that will be something that will start seeing more and more of as this be This becomes the new normal of actually working from home? I think it could potentially go that route for sure. And what's the fear as an organization that you would run into as a safety professional, potentially based on something like that? Well, I think you know more people you have working from home. It's really hard to control that work environment that they're in, right.  Um you know, Do you have the fire extinguisher in your kitchen? Is it have you checked it. Um how is your work station set up? Um, making sure that it's ergonomically safe on neutron on the floor next to the couch using. I'm using that. The edge of the couches, The computer? Older. Exactly. Exactly. So you know, I think it's re educating people. Um, you know, I think when we not that the workplace could be rigid or what not. But I think you have a little bit more structure, so to speak.  And I think when you, um and we have some very some of the brightest minds working in our organization. Um, but I think you know, when you take it home, sometimes some, some, some things get left behind cause you don't have that that, ah, structure that the being in the office, actually, you know, takes care of right. It's that mind set and it's like that click control type of thing. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it from the standpoint of I'm here, so I know that they're certain functions that I that I need to dio when you're doing it from a home perspective.  Sometimes it can become a little bit difficult because your door might be OK. I'm doing this with the family and some wine, so it has to be interesting transition piece as it moves board. Now, I do. When I did when we were doing some research on your background, I do see that you've done several different things. But at one point, you were the president of the American Society of Safety, Professional or safety Engineers in San Antonio. Just being involved with that. What was the inclination off? Hey, I think that I'm gonna jump into the A s S e.  And I want to run for president. How did you come to that determination? Um why had already been involved with SSE for many, many years during graduate school and thereafter once I graduated. And, um, it was one of those situations where, you know, I had asked the current president and the the executive committee that hey, I'm really interested in being involved in, and you know, I'll do whatever you need me to do. And unfortunately, when it came time for elections, the president, uh, elect, um, got a new job out of state.  And so the current president said, Hey, you, um, you've been asking for something to do, Um, your mind running for president? I would be happy to, uh and so it was Ah, I really enjoyed that experience. Had a great team. We actually let our, uh, South Texas chapter to get a platinum recognition award. That year was the first time in our chapters history. Um, so and it's it's been a It was a great experience. So were you still running it then? When the A s S P was in, um, when they were actually when the when the big national conference came to San Antonio.  Yes, sir. I waas well, you put on a huge event. I remember being there. There was a huge event that I will say that the beer was flowing inside of the bar. That the that the event was held that yet? But I remember it was gigantic. There was a lot of people there. Yes, that was our region. Three big night out is Did so as the host chapter. Uh, the executive committee and I planned and put all that together. So yeah, we were very happy to have everybody down and host them for our great city.  Have you been considering wanting to take the safety consulted blueprint course online? Let me throw a monkey wrench into your thoughts I'm gonna do alive. Three day event on Zoom is going to be a workshop that is me walking through this court step by step by step each day, July 28 July 29th in July 30th from 9 a.m. Standard timeto 1 p.m. Eastern Standard time. We're gonna have an intimate group of maximum 15 participants. So register today. Sheldon prima's dot com backslash live for safety Consultant Blueprint So good. Sheldon.  Primacy dot com backslash live register today way are back on the Jalen on safety. And I mean, it was great because it was right there on the river walk and I want to say there I mean, there was some people that enjoyed it a little bit more than others, and, you know, that's a good thing. Don't look at it the wrong way, but, I mean, I love how the arrangement was. It was the bracelet set up, and then there was, like, giveaways and some things that that accent and it was really well organized.  I was really impressed with how you had it set up. And I thought it was a great event overall, especially being there a what to say at the time. And I don't know, it's case anymore. Wasn't that the biggest chapter at the time? I don't know if that was the biggest chapter, but that was one of the biggest events that we threw all year. Especially, I think, for our history. Um, but it was great having everybody come and, um, just being able Teoh network and and really celebrate the culmination of that entire year that we work so hard and got platinum that year.  So it was a really, really nice way to cap it all off. So as you didn't side, then all of a sudden, because the years up, you transition out and I guess you're so bored you decided to become the region three assistant vice president of student leadership. Because you just have so much spare time. Yeah, So that actually So that s came about actually, while I was president s. So I took on that role as well. And so, um, I really do have a heart for students.  Ah, and helping them in order to achieve their goals on become better safety professionals. So one of the things that Region three does is we actually put on our own student leadership conference every year, except for this year, of course, right with the pandemic and everything. But, um, we try to provide our students with the The resource is knowledge and insights to help them become better safety professionals s so that when they transition from the classroom to their first job, they've got a leg up. So how how's your general feeling with when it comes to some of these things?  Because I knew that we're starting to see more will say quote unquote safety. Well, we can go to more and more colleges. The courses that actually are designated towards safety. We're starting to see that more and more, but I have not seen tunnel places that have anything that's kind of driven towards the C suite. Do you think that because of the people you get to interact with you? Are you seeing ah lack inside of that area? Or is that just something that I'm looking too deep into?  No, I definitely think that that is something that, um as safety professionals. We get so focused on the technical, you know where compliance driven. Ah, we're trying to learn more about, um, you know, be able based safety and whatnot. I think that's that's really, um, going back to one of your previous questions is I think that's the future that we need to look at is, um, getting to those business skills and those leadership skills that can take us to that c suite? Um, because I think a lot of times safety professionals, they speak a different language, right?  And we really need to speak the language of our, um, top management. And that's finance, right? And I think that's in some cases where we need to focus our efforts as an organization or as ah, industry toe help our younger generation start to get into that. So right now, if you were guiding someone that said, Hey, I want to get into the safety field, I don't know what to take. What would you recommend them taking his college courses like if you were trying to build out a program for them?  What would you tell them to be the focus on, and then would there be anything related to business there. Oh, definitely. Uh, you know, I think that, um uh, you know, economics. Um, and personal finance such as accounting. Um, I also think that, um you know, we I think there's another area that we were lacking safety professionals, and that's marketing. Um, I think to be able to present your ideas in a cohesive manner, um, and make them fun and exciting. Um, I think as safety professionals, we know that safety is sexy, but the rest of the world doesn't.  And so we really want todo really read that out loud? You said safety is sexy. I've never heard anybody say that before. We're gonna have mark that police. We need to have that marked here. Yes, it's a two minutes 20 seconds. Um, but no, I I think that, um, again, going back to you can get all the technical, whether it's, um your particular program is in fire protection or ergonomics or industrial hygiene. General safety. You think you're going to get that core? Um, but I think there's other things that are surrounding at, and I think there as as this profession is growing, um, we need a supplement that the technical knowledge with those softer skills, um, such as negotiation and no negotiation skills And, um, again go back to that finance marketing.  I think there's some crucial skills that could definitely help us advance this profession. Ah, and making a lot smoother on you in your career. Um, I think when you can talk that talk to the C suite and your top management, you're going to be ableto um, get them to see your vision for that safety program. So do you located that? Sometimes when it comes to safety professionals the way that our lingo works that we try sometimes to use inside of that C suite, it actually could be a Alanssi of disturbance.  But it could be a hindrance to an extent, because we're not speaking the same language as to seize the people inside of C suite. Yeah, and I don't think it's a um it's not bad to know the terminology right? And it's not bad. Teach others, especially your first line supervisors and your technicians and and everybody on the front lines. Ah, because I think it's a very important that everybody has the same vocabulary, right? They know what a confined spaces. They you know that you've taught them that in your safety meetings and such, um, and you have that consistent message.  But I think as you start to move up the chain and start talking to top management, I think I think the language that you use does need to be in their terms. Um, well, you did make a reference to marketing as well. So is this why the growth of the beard is this part of your marketing strategy and fighting organization E between you and I, nobody else will know if you tell us. I think it's ah, you know, part of my my brand strategy. Um, again, you know, everybody recognizes the beard.  Um, you know, if if if I'm connecting with somebody on LinkedIn, I would say 85% of the time, the first thing that they reply back with his nice beer. Well, let's let's be honest, here we are doing it the connection via computer and you put down instead of your name, which is perfectly fine beard and safety guy. So e, I just, you know, um, you know, if I'm going to grow, it might as well you know, use it right? I hope you have that thing trademarked by the trademarked and owned the website.  You know, I probably need to do that. I haven't haven't gotten that far. The current viruses keeping me pretty busy, I could only imagine so as you go down this path. And, of course, we're seeing these different things take place. So it sounds like you're heavily involved with the student activity. How is that working now with you being able to assist what students? Especially in this, I guess this new version that we have to do where you can't really do a lot of meetings that in person, how are you being able to interact, if at all, with some of the students that are interested still being inside of the safety field?  Well, like I said before, you know, our student leadership conference got cancelled at the beginning of this year. Back in April. We are We have public postponed it till till next year. Uh, but we're still as a planning committee were still holding those meetings, and we're still moving forward with what we had planned for this upcoming year. And, um, you know, just keeping the students engaged, you know, have had quite a few conversations with the the student leaders. Um, you know, especially, you know, as it's time for, you know, those seniors who were graduating and moving on and then the ushering in the new officers and things like that connecting with with folks on linked in, um, we're also trying to, um, look for other ways to how to communicate, you know, obviously with Zoom and WebEx and and all the online platforms and everything.  But we're also looking into, you know, APS. How do we get messaging out that? Hey, the registrations online for this new conference. So we're looking into, like whats app and Group me, which has actually been pretty popular amongst students. So trying to get their feedback as to how they communicate. Because, as we know, you know, emails, pretty stack. You know, especially being a college student during the summer. You're probably not gonna be checking your college email, right? Okay. At Hop University, we cut the bull out of human and organisational performance training.  We were born out of necessity way. Hear it all the time. Human. An organization formed Courses are expensive and hard to find safety classes. Put me to sleep. Help. So we did. We offer on demand high quality online courses in human and organisational performance, safety and leadership all in by season safety and hot practitioners. No need to schedule time for that conference. No need to track down the latest guru. No stuffy classroom required. Join us today at hot university dot org's. That's H o P. University dot org way are back on the J. Allen show on ST CFN.  And then, besides that every company on the planet sending me an email to let me know how much they care about me at the moment probably does not help help the fact either. Yeah, we don't want to get drowned out. Um, you know, we want to make sure that there are still staying connected because, you know, when they transition from the student section to an actual chapter, um, you know, there have already started to grow those leadership skills, so we want them to take on a leadership position when they come into the chapter.  Now, when you are seeing the people that are inside of the student section of the chapter and they're transitioning into a full, normal membership. Now, we are aware that there are some price point differences that do occur. Do you see a pretty high conversion rate with them staying with the chapters? Well, uh, SSP has done a great job. Um, and they've looked at, um so as students graduate, SP's gift to them is they get a full membership, actually, after they've graduated. So that was the worst years covered.  That is on. That's awesome. I was not aware that at all. That's that's great. It is a fantastic benefit. And being a student at $15. Ah, year. Um, for be a part of your student section, I think, is a phenomenal benefit, especially being able to get a practice specialty in a common interest group. Um, connecting online with that in those communities. I think it's phenomenal, I think I think I think it's one of the best, uh, hands down, um, cost benefits that you could get. Uh, I have a clear you I don't know.  I do not know that. Why, That is not on the main page of the SSP when you get there. To be quite honest with you, this is the first time I've ever heard of that. So, yeah, if you go to the SSP dot org's it is underneath student membership. Yeah, I never would have never met her, but, I mean, that is that That's a great I mean, that is one of those great approaches in regards. We're doing it now with you being involved with the A S S B. Of course, this year was supposed to be occurring in Orlando, and now it has changed to a virtual session.  What's your thought process behind that? Well, I think obviously, um, you know, as safety professionals, we need to lead by example. So I think it was definitely a prudent move on their part by hosting a virtual conference. Um, I'm definitely interested in to see how the new platform is on and going through all of the different general sessions and, uh, the there break out sessions and such, um, that one thing that I'm going to miss personally is the interaction with my safety family, um, being able to network and and, ah, just catch up. Right.  Um, so it's a little different, but I you know, I definitely think that's it's something that needed to happen. Well, I mean, I know that the virtual room, which will be much different than actually being able to interact with people in person. Of course, you can't do a virtual, you know, adult beverages the way that awarded. I make it become a little bit difficult genetics. And but do you think that this actually has the the I guess the ability to be such a market disruptor that this might be the way in the future.  So let's let me kind of let me kind of try to give you a little more detail on what I mean here. So let's say, for instance, next year everything goes fine. I believe it's in Denver. If I remember correctly, it is, and everything scheduled to go find where there might still be some people that might want to do it virtually where there is a availability of doing it both ways, where you can have some people in person and then also do the market disruption of doing it virtually.  You know, I think that's an interesting point. I think, um, you know, like we've talked about, I think the new world, Um ah, lot of things are gonna be going virtual. Um, and that could potentially be an option next year, and especially for those who are able to travel. I think that, um, you know, we were going to hold the Region three professional development conference here in San Antonio later this year in in September, and we decided that it, you know, there's just too much uncertainty in the world.  You know, we think there could be another cove in 19 wave come through. Um, you know, I think a lot of organizations have pulled back their discretionary spending or cut it off completely. Um, I think some country, some organizations are also still on the travel ban. So, um, I think if that keeps going into next year, I think we could potentially see, um, you know, some people going to in person the conference, and then some people wanting to do that virtual method as well. Yeah. And I think from a cost cutting measure, at least in my opinion, especially bringing up that some organizations are cutting back one, especially on travel.  It's probably a better value for them in regards of cutting back to travel. But then the question will always become. Does the full price point have the same value if you're in Persian or if it's be a Web? Because I think that that's a always gonna be point of the conversation, and I think that's where we're at in the market where people are still trying to make that determination on wood brings value. Like I will tell you, there's a seminar that I have been looking at and the seminars Pretty.  It's like one of these master classes where they have all kinds of people that show up. They want $8000 for the things you show up in person, but they still want the $1000 if you're doing it online, which I was like so no, I think that. But the one of the issues that I do have is that you know, if you're still in the office and they're still people here, there could be other distractions, so your attention could still be divided. Um, so unlike being with in that, uh, you know, the the conference room, watching the speaker and engaging with them, I think that's also a part that you miss not having being there in person.  Don't get me wrong. Organizations still know how to track you down. But if you're at a conference, you know that. And I know that. Yeah, yeah, they will hunt you down, especially if it's one of the ones that you're trying to, you know, listen to the most. All of a sudden, that's the seem to be the day that the votes catastrophic events normally tend to occur. Don't know why it works out that way. This is true. So mad. If people want to know more about you working to find out more information, uh, they can connect with me on linked in Just look for the bearded safety guy, the bearded safety guy.  So I appreciate you actually coming onto the show today. I really enjoyed the conversation. So make sure that if you do go looking for him going to lengthen and you'll recognize him specifically by the picture Thank you so much. I really do appreciate it. Well, this brings another episode of the J. Allen show to an end. If you're interested in to see what we have going on in safety, FM come to the website at safety FM dot com If you're interested in the latest contest, go to safety FM dot com, Ford slash contest.  And if you're interested in becoming part of the safety FM exclusive list, also part of the safety FM er's also, of course, you go to safety FM dot com. Thank you for always being the best part of safety FM, and that is the listener. Here it Safety FM. We want to be the home of real safety talk. We'll be back with another episode of The Jalen Show before too long. Goodbye for now. One small of J. Allen. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guest, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company.  Examples of analysis discussed within with podcast are only example. It's not be utilized in the real world at the only solution available as they're based only on very limited undated Open source information. Assumptions made within this analysis or not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical Elektronik, recording or otherwise without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast, J. Allen