In this episode, Verdouw takes us on a thrilling journey, starting from his early days amidst the frost landscapes of Tasmania, where a young boy’s disinterest in traditional schooling led him to venture into a carpentry and joinery apprenticeship with his uncles’ company. His story continues on the sun-kissed shores of Queensland, where he honed his skills and established himself in the construction industry until he made an audacious leap into the corporate world.

Timestamps:
01:04 | From Corporate World to Property Development
02:35 | A Day in the Life of Phil Verdouw
03:33 | Brisbane: Ready to Boom Again
06:00 | Growing up in Tasmania
12:38 | High School Troubles and Pub Adventures
14:50 | From Textbooks to Toolboxes
18:38 | Tasmania to Queensland: Escaping from the Cold
19:23 | Phil’s Queensland Quest: Carpentry to Corporate World
22:06 | Verdouw’s Roles with Bechtel
26:27 | Peruvian Perspectives: A Journey to Remember

 |

01:22 | Craving Change and Making New Beginnings
06:31 | Returning to Corporate Life
08:27 | Navigating the property Development Mindset
12:34 | A Nerve-Racking Start
18:11 | The Million-Dollar Challenge
22:17 | The Journey of Six Profitable Projects
23:56 | The Inflation Rollercoaster
27:32 | Verdouw’s Aha Moment
28:34 | Applying Insights
29:42 | A message to His Past-self
30:33 | Building for the future
31:29 | A Perfect Blend

Resources and Links:

 
Transcript:
Phil Verdouw:   

[00:23:21] And look, for someone who walked in not knowing a thing about what I was going to do, I ended up becoming a global manager for the role in another organization. So, I think I did pretty well.

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum, and in this episode, we’re speaking with Phil Verdouw, the owner for PV Properties. Verdouw shares his journey, from the frosty landscapes of Tasmania, where he pursued an apprenticeship due to his dislike of school in sunny Queensland. There, he embarked on a career that allowed him to travel the world and achieve remarkable goals he never thought possible. 

Tyrone Shum: 

In 2015, Verdow began his thrilling journey into the world of property development while simultaneously pursuing his corporate career. However, it was a pivotal moment in 2018 when he faced corporate reducany that he seized the opportunity to dive head first into property development.

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:00:21] I'm the company director and acquisitions lead in PV properties. We're currently purchasing land and subdividing [it] into livable lots across Greater Brisbane [including] Logan, Brisbane City Council, Redland and Moreton Bay Regional. We have roughly $34 million in GRV (Gross Realizable Value) on the books at the moment. We've been in business for four years full-time, but I [have been] doing property development since 2015.

[00:01:16] At that time, I executed my first project in 2014 [and] completed [it] in 2015. Then, I stayed in the corporate world and kept working in the corporate business. But [I also] did some more learning [and] some more education. [I] went to different seminars [with] educators and kept learning more about the process. 

[00:01:41] [In] 2018, I lost my job in the corporate world [and was] made redundant. [I] then thought, “Now is a great time to get stuck into this [property development] on a full-time basis”. 

Tyrone Shum:   

Verdouw’s workday is characterised by a diverse range of tasks, making it dynamic and engaging. However, his morning routine provides a stable and predictable start to his day. 

Phil Verdouw: 

[00:02:04] I tend to get up at about 5:00 a.m. [to] 5:30 a.m. in the morning, [and] go for a walk or the gym; work one of the two [into my schedule]. Then I meditate; I like to meditate for about 15 to 30 minutes. After that, [I have a] leisurely morning [with] breakfast, getting ready for [the day], [and I] do a bit of reading. 

[00:02:24] I am usually in the office by around about 9:00 a.m. I spend my day looking for projects [and] sites, dealing with funding and refinancing projects as the need requires, funding construction and managing and coordinating the construction side of things with my son. My son works in the business now, so he's looking after pretty much all the project delivery for us, and I'm focused on the business side of it.

Tyrone Shum:   

Through his work in Queensland, Verdouw has witnessed numerous exciting indicators pointing to the potential for rapid growth in Brisbane, driven by a range of dynamic factors. 

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:03:04] There [are] really good signs that Brisbane is ready to boom again. So we've got really good signs that for the next two years, I think we're in for some pretty rapid growth again, [much] like I believe when we came out of COVID, when we had a bit of rapid growth there. So it's good signs. Can anyone predict the future? No, no one can, but all signs are pointing towards it. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:03:31] Just curious, what kind of signs are you seeing that's pointing towards that?

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:03:35] It's just the way the government [has been operating]—all the government spending [and] infrastructure spending. We've got the Olympics coming up, so obviously, there's a lot of spending going on there. There's a need for more people, so the migration coming into Brisbane is really strong. 

[00:03:49] [Also, the migration] in southeast Queensland is very strong. So [that means] there's a greater need for accommodation, infrastructure and services, [and] the like. Everything's just sort of piling up on each other to give us a real solid grounding for more growth.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:04:07] I can kind of see that because also, too, it's affordable compared to other states as well, so there's a lot of migration that's happening, especially when COVID happened. Everyone said, “Why do I need to even live close to [the] city? I can just move out”. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:04:22] Now, there are some reports that I'm reading from some people like John Lindeman and others that I look at. They're saying that a lot of those people that moved out, some of them want to move back to the cities now. There [are] things that just keep on happening. Migration is something that's happening, but international migration, that's the biggest one; that one is [seeing] quite a lot of people coming into Australia.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:04:46] I noticed that as well. Specifically, I've just got [an] Airbnb and a lot of the people that come [to] visit or basically stay in Airbnb are not necessarily migrants but just [people from] overseas. So there are still a lot of people coming in, which is really good. Even though they say [living in Australia] is very expensive, they still want to come.

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:05:03] [Australia] is still one of the easiest countries in the world to live in. I've travelled, and in my previous work in [the] corporate world, I travelled to 35 countries, and [some] for leisure as well. But this is by far the easiest country to live in.

Tyrone Shum:  

Verdouw’s upbringing in Kingston, Tasmania, was anything but ordinary, as his parents managed a local nursing home. The work ethic of his parents served as a powerful inspiration, motivating not only him but also his siblings to venture into the realm of business.

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:05:41] I grew up in Kingston, Tasmania. My parents came out after the Second World War and moved in [with] my dad [and] with his family. They lived in a little hot pickers hut south of Hobart [in] Kingston, and we grew up there. I [have] six brothers, so [there were] seven of us, [and] we all grew up down in Hobart. I'll call it Hobart because it's the greater area. 

[00:06:12] My dad and mum had a nursing home; they’re quite entrepreneurial and industrious. All [of] my brothers are in business [to] one degree or another; working for ourselves on a contract basis. One of my brothers has a software company [that] sells software all around the world for tracking shares. We're all quite industrious in business.

Tyrone Shum: 

Growing up right next door to the nursing home that his mum and dad ran, Vedouw relished the extraordinary advantages it brought, including a constant supply of delicious leftovers. 

 

Phil Verdouw:    

[00:06:54] We thought it was normal because they just [lived] right next door; we lived in the house next door to the nursing home. It was one of the biggest privately run nursing homes in Tasmania. Mum was the matron, and dad was the office administrator, and we just lived [that] life. We would get a lot of benefits out of it. 

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:07:19] What kind of benefits are we talking about?

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:07:22] As young men, food was quite high on the agenda for us. So we would [often] get lots of leftovers.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:07:33] I would actually be pretty happy with that, to be honest, because sometimes, as a kid growing up, I always used to run out of food [since I] would eat too much. 

Phil Verdouw:    

[00:07:40] But when you're in your teens, especially as men, we all eat a lot. I watch[ed] my son eat, and he would just open the fridge door, and when there wasn't enough in there, he would growl. And we [did] the same as young men. 

Tyrone Shum:  

Growing up with the nursing home as an integral part of his family life, Verdouw witnessed the natural cycle of life and death among elderly residents. 

Phil Verdouw:

[00:08:19] We saw all of that because Mum and Dad would talk about the business, you know, the day-to-day things over the dinner table with us and between themselves, and we would all hear. 

[00:08:32] One of the things that's quite unique, well, maybe not unique, but it was [an] interesting phenomenon that every time the seasons changed, there would be people passing away. It was like [when] we went into winter, there’d be a number of [people] passing, and then we’d go into spring, and so on. It was interesting how the change of seasons just seemed to [have that effect]. It was something I noticed as a kid [when] I heard about elderly passing away; it was every time there was a real seasonal change. 

[00:09:06] Maybe it was [the] change in temperature or something, and as we get older, we can't adapt. I'm finding that the same thing. I mean, not that I'm old or anything at this point in time, or older, but I am noticing the cold a lot more than I used to with the [rapidly] changing temperature. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:09:23] And [it is] very cold in Tasmania. I prefer Queensland because Queensland is a lot warmer, and I enjoy the winters here very much.

Tyrone Shum:  

Verdouw frequently lent a hand at his parents’ nursing home, tackling everything from simple chores to daring maintenance projects. 

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:10:27] We did a little bit of both, actually. Probably a little bit of working in the business, in the sense that we would go and work in the kitchen, wash dishes, and the like for a bit [of] pocket money. Because [there were] 80 residents there, so there [were] a lot of dishes to clean up.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:10:46] Especially when you have six kids, it's not bad to have extra hands.

[00:10:49] And we would do maintenance around the nursing home. I know as a kid, I would be up on the roof painting the roofs. 

[00:10:55] Wow. 

[00:10:56] [My] dad would buy paint, and we'd be up there painting it. They were like two and a half [to] three-storey buildings. And you're up there just with ropes. No scaffolding back in those days, no scaffolding at all. Just in sandshoes and walking on the roof. 

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:11:13] Let's just hope that Workers Compensation doesn't hear about this.

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:11:14] Yeah, it was a long time ago.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:11:15] That is insane. Wow. I mean, I kind of do remember growing up as a kid, I did things similar to you. [My] dad would just hand me a brush and [say], “Go paint that”, or [hand] me a shovel and [say], “Dig up that soil”. I’m like, “Dad, why do I have to do this?”. But it’s actually really good training, especially at a young age, because you learn so many different things. Now I know how to do all this stuff, and I can do it myself.

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:11:42] Yeah, we did it all. We would lay bricks, we would pour concrete, we would do all sorts of things as we needed to. And we learned as we went

Tyrone Shum:  

Despite enjoying the company of his friends, Vedouw did not find school to be enjoyable. 

He believed that his insatiable appetite for learning diverse skills wasn’t adequately nourished within the confines of the traditional education system. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:12:01] I enjoyed the people and my friends at school, [but] I didn't enjoy learning. I hated the education side of it. I always had trouble with my teachers; they were always pushing me too hard, well, I thought they were pushing me too hard, but obviously, they weren't.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:12:18] Schools are made for some people. I think that the school system only teaches you to [pursue] an industrial type of job. Basically, it's an industrialized system where they [mainly focus on] teaching you one skill, and then you’re [expected] to go and do that. Whereas, I think for me and yourself, we are pretty much entrepreneurs, [and] we like to learn as much as we can.

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:12:37] I like to learn all the trades. One of the things that I did with my uncles and when I went out and did a little bit of work on my own [on] a contracting basis, I would do everything. I would lay tiles, I would do paving, I would [do] concreting, bricklaying, painting, even electrical and plumbing. I would do it all if I needed to and where I needed to. [These] are great skills to have. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:14:06] So, after going to primary school, did you move on to secondary education or further, or did you just basically do an apprenticeship?

[00:14:14] I did. I went on into high school [and] finished Year 10. In Hobart, you had matriculation, which was Year 11 and [Year] 12. So I went through Year 11, [and I] hated that—absolutely hated school. I got into a lot of trouble; I would always be down [at] the pub every second day, having beers instead of being in class. So, I was always getting in trouble. Fortunately, my parents used to go to Holland a lot of the time, so when I got caught, they weren't around to find out about it.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:14:50] So what have you been up to son? Oh, yeah, just been going to school.

[00:14:55] Oh, I used to have to lie a little bit. [I used to say that my parents] are overseas at the moment; they don't care what I'm doing. Which they would [have] done, I would have got into a lot of trouble. 

Dissatisfied with the conventional school system, Verdouw enthusiastically embarked on an apprenticeship with his uncle’s construction company. Upon completing his apprenticeship, he delved further into the field, undertaking noteworthy projects. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:15:17] I didn't like school, so instead of going on to Year 12, I got myself an apprenticeship with my uncles in their construction company. I spent four years [as] an apprentice, and after I finished my apprenticeship, I went out and just contract[ing] and build[ing] houses and framed [them] up. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:15:39] [I] did a bit of commercial work. I went and contracted back to my uncles on a big project down on the Hunter Wharfs in Hobart, on the university building. And we put five acres of tongue and groove flooring down, myself and my mate. 

[00:15:40] Wow.  

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:15:55] Yeah, it was a massive job. Then we built all these steel frame walls in there as well. It was a great job, really good. We spent maybe a year there doing that, so it was pretty big.

Verdouw’s apprenticeship specialised in carpentry and joinery, but his determination led him to develop a wide range of construction skills. This versatility enables him to handle various projects and still remains willing to roll up his sleeves when needed. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:16:24] I did a lot because I pushed myself to do a lot. I reached out and did it. But the apprenticeship was purely carpentry and joinery. So, with that, I can build a house and [create] cupboards—build kitchen cupboards. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:16:36] When I built my first home, I did all of that myself. I [built] my own kitchen, laundry, ensuites and bathrooms. I built everything myself by hand. 

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:16:49] Wow. [Did you] even lay the bricks and everything on the outside and the roof?

[00:16:53] [I] didn't do that this time. I got some trades in. But if I need to brick up a barbecue, I'll brick it up myself. When it's a big job, I'll bring in trades [people] who are more experienced than me. But I can do the little bits and pieces of those other trades.

Tyrone Shum:   

This versatility has allowed him to tackle a wide array of projects and has even seen him rolling up his sleeves and getting his hands dirty when necessary. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:17:29] Even now, I was just on a project recently, [and] I would jump in the trench [to] clean it out and lay pipe for the plumbers on the job because I needed it done, and I wanted it done on that day, [so] I jumped in and helped out. I'm happy to get in and get dirty if I need to, [but] at my age, I don't like to do it all anymore. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:17:53] I know, similar to my dad, that's the same thing. He just recently had an alfresco [area] done at the back of his house. Because there was a bit of a delay in getting the plumber in, exactly the same as you, he actually laid all the pipes out [himself] as he knows how to do it. Then, when the plumber came, he pretty much just put on the taps. Then the electrician came straight away the next day and got it all done. Otherwise, [he] would have wasted another two more weeks waiting for those guys. Yeah, you just have to sometimes get in and get dirty [to] get [things] done.

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:18:20] You just [have] to do the work; some things have to happen. I mean, there was one job about two [or] three years ago, one of my first projects. It was a very steep block of land, and I had to put a dry saltwater line up there. I had to dig eight meters of trench on my own, with [my] hands, [because] I couldn't get a machine up there to do it. I couldn't bring a big enough machine in because it was a very tight road. So, I had to pick up the shovel and do it by hand. I will do anything if I need to to make it happen.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:18:52] Yeah, that's great. It's a good work ethic that you've [developed]. I think you're probably going to be passing and engraving that into your kids in the future.

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:19:00] You do what you have to do to make it work.

After honing his carpentry skills through apprenticeship and contracting in Tasmania’s chilly conditions, Verdouw ventured to Queensland, where he embarked on a variety of different projects. 

[00:09:36] It was just so cold. I've been in the building industry, and I've worked for my uncle's down in Tasmania; they've had a construction company there. So I did my apprenticeship as a carpenter and joiner down there. I did a lot of contracting, building houses and the like down in Tasmania. It was a great time. 

[00:09:56] Then I moved to Queensland and got into site management for three-story walk-ups, nursing homes and different building projects here.

Tyrone Shum:   

When he relocated to sunny Queensland, he initially ventured into trade and site management roles. However, a remarkable transition marked the beginning of his dynamic and prosperous journey with an American company. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:19:24] I moved to Queensland in 1992, and then I started working in Queensland. I did a bit of trade work here, [including] carpentry work [and] restaurant fit-outs. Then I got site manager roles, managing construction projects, [including] three-story walk-ups at a nursing home that I was managing. 

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:19:47] Then, I got a job with the American company Bechtel and joined them. My ex-wife’s cousin's husband worked there, so we were chatting, and I ended up getting a job there. [I] travelled to Gladstone and worked on a smelter grade there as a contracts administrator. So, I went from site management to contracts admin and procurement. Then I spent the next 18 [to] 20 years doing that. It was 1995 when I joined, and then [in] 2018, I got out of that really good job.

Tyrone Shum: 

[00:20:36] What attracted you to stay there? 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:20:38] It was a corporate world, and it was good fun. I spent quite a long time with [Bechtel] and then travelled the world with them to different countries, [including] Peru, Saudi Arabia, and different places. [I] worked my way up to management roles in contracts and procurement. Then I got a job with Sinclair Knight Merz, an Australian engineering organization, and I've become the global manager for contracts and procurement.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:21:10] Okay. So, all still within the construction industry, basically, just all around the world.

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:21:17] Yeah, just and then specializing in sourcing and commercial contracts, sourcing materials and equipment from around the world. Interesting, very interesting role, the procurement side of things, buying materials from all over the world, making sure that it's fabricated to a high quality and then shipped to very remote sites in different locations around the world. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:21:38] So that was [a] really interesting career. I think I love working for these big companies. It was a really enjoyable time. But in the end, I got tired of it. I think I needed to go back out and work for myself.

Tyrone Shum:   

During this time, one of Verdouw’s crucial responsibilities was managing the contract process for builders and construction firms participating in their projects. He provides insights into the intricate world of contracting, acknowledging that when he first assumed this role, he lacked the basic knowledge of turning on his computer. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:22:39] Let's [talk about] the first project that I worked on, [which] was the Boyne smelter line three upgrade with Bechtel. I walked in there as a contracts administrator. Mind you, I walked in there, and I had no idea how to turn a computer; I didn't even know where the on-off button was. I sat down and had no idea what I was going to do or how I was going to do it. I just bluffed my way in. Then I had to ask someone how to turn the computer on, and they all looked at me and went what is here. I learned very quickly.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:23:16] Sometimes you have to don't you?

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:23:17] You do, you do. 

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:23:19] You got to act the part.

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:23:21] And look, for someone who walked in not knowing a thing about what I was going to do, I ended up becoming a global manager for the role in another organization. So, I think I did pretty well.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:23:32] You did you did.

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:23:33] So, what I did there, to get back to your question, I would bring together all of the technical and commercial aspects of a contract for a builder or a construction company [that] came in [to] do a particular section of the work on a project. The engineers would write the scope of work in specifications and do the engineering design work. There [would] be other parts [like] safety [and] industrial relations, and I would bring all of those aspects of a contract together and then formulate the contract into one total document. [I would] put [it] all together and then send it out for tender to different construction companies. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:24:16] Yes.  

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:24:17] All tier-one constructors. Then, I would arrange to get the tenders in, who will receive the tenders, and then distribute the sections out to the different departments for their reviews. [I would] coordinate all the reviews of the tenders and then select a preferred tenderer. Then, I would award the contract to the preferred contractor. And after that, I would administer that contract through to completion.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:24:44] Wow, so it's very similar because when you just told me that process, it's very similar to development. You’ve got to find a builder, you basically tear it out, and then from there, once you've got the contract, you basically manage the whole process all the way to the end.

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:24:58] Yeah, you do get through the end of it. So that's for construction services, and when it comes to equipment and materials, because these are big engineering, heavy engineering projects, there's lots of equipment and services needed; lots of specialist services. So, [there are] lots of different styles of contracts with different scopes. 

Tyrone Shum:  

Verdouw delves into the complexities of the procurement process, emphasizing the critical need for precision and attention to detail in its execution. 

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:25:20] On the procurement side of things, we buy equipment, say from China, for example, big heavy equipment. But you can't just send a contract over there and expect them to build something the way you need them to. And that is with any country. For example, I had something built in New Zealand that came out terrible because we didn't have the right quality control there. So you have to put quality control in every country, just different levels of quality control depending on the country. Then you have to ship it. [We] then pick it up, and transport it onto a boat, ship it to another country where it's going to be installed. Then we take it to the location, and some of those places are very dangerous and difficult to get to.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:26:07] It's very interesting. Wow, I can see, you know, it's not just a one-man [job] that you’ve got to do here. You require so many moving parts and so many people that you're involved [with]. It is sort of like this massive factory chain that you've just got to maintain and keep moving. 

[00:26:24] Yeah, it is a massive coordination role. There are a lot of people involved in these big projects and some really clever people in there. I was just one person in hundreds doing a job.

Tyrone Shum:  

Verdouw shares a thrilling and demanding experience from his time at the company, where he managed a complex copper mine construction project in the mountains of Peru, where he had to navigate health challenges and guards with machine guns.

[00:26:40] It was great. One of the most challenging roles I've ever had was one in Peru, and that was challenging because it was so high up in the mountains—5000 meters up there. We were building a new copper mine, and that was very interesting—tunnelling under mountains, draining lakes. It was [a] really super interesting place to be. [It was] very hard to live and work in that environment. I found myself in the hospital a couple of times up there because I just found myself dehydrated and suffering from altitude sickness. So it was in a very interesting place, and [there were times where I was] worried, well not [maybe] worried, but there were guards on horseback with machine guns prior to walking around the site, keeping all of the local thieves away.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:27:38] Yeah, I guess that's what happens in sort of remote, different countries. Would you consider Peru sort of a third-world country in that sense? 

Phil Verdouw:  

[00:27:46] I would say they would have been. It was my first taste of real poverty when I drove out of Lima, up to the mountains; a 10-hour drive from the airport up to the mountain. And I saw my first real massive slums that I'd never witnessed before. So as a pretty fresh Australian coming out and seeing that, it really blew me away.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:28:12] Yeah, I can imagine. When you see that kind of stuff, it really gets you to appreciate and realise how fortunate we are. 

Phil Verdouw:   

[00:28:21] We live in one of the luckiest countries in the world from my experience. Absolutely.

Craving Change and Making New Beginnings 

After a thrilling career in the corporate world, Verdouw started to lose the joy he once had for this career path, prompting him to embark on a quest for greater fulfilment. This journey led him into the exciting realm of property development. 

[00:00:15] For me, [when I] became the global manager, I just started losing the joy in the corporate world [and] I was losing the joy [from] the job. I was craving; I spent quite a long time looking for a business to buy; maybe an engineering company and then grow that further. I had a look at some [businesses] and went through the process of doing due diligence on them, only to not follow through; it just wasn’t really what I was looking for.

[00:00:52] [Then] I picked up on property development [as] I thought this is something that I really enjoy doing. I enjoy the building and construction side of things and I really wanted to stay there; it was something that I had always had an inkling to get into. 

[00:01:07] So in [the] early [to] mid-2000s’, I started studying and reading up [about property]. Then in 2010, I bought my first development site and I land banked that for four years. And then that was my first development in 2014 to 2015; I turned that [property] from a single house into three townhouses. 

Inspired by his carpentry background, Verdouw decided to delve into the realm of townhouse developments, marking the beginning of his property development journey. 

[00:01:45] Because I like [townhouses]. I’ve built townhouses before as a carpenter and joinery. So I knew the townhouses [and] the building side of things. That’s what led me down that path, to begin with. 

[00:02:01] I got involved with a guy called Michael Yardney; he does a lot of armchair development. So you can basically become an armchair developer, [but] I didn’t want to be an armchair developer, I wanted to be the developer. I spent time with Michael [Yardney] and I did his courses and followed him and had meetings with them. They helped me buy that first lot, and then I spent that four years while I was land banking, just working out how I was going to put townhouses on there. 

[00:02:36] At the time, it was 2012, Michael [Yardney] pulled out of [working in] Queensland because of the downturn. But I kept going, I want this to happen. So I kept pursuing it and then just slowly but surely pulled it all together. [I] found a town planner that was really helpful; he was incredibly good and a good architect for the product.

[00:03:07] [I] made lots of mistakes while I was doing it; lots and lots of mistakes. But [I] ended up pulling the project off and from that first one, we [now] own one of the townhouses almost outright.  

[00:03:21] Excellent. Where was this property [again]? 

[00:03:25] This was in Camp Hill. 

[00:03:27] Camp Hill. Oh, so it is in Brisbane. 

[00:03:25] In Brisbane, yeah. 

Verdouw discusses the DEA approval process he navigated for that project and highlights the crucial contributions of a skilful architect and town planner in facilitating the process. 

[00:03:42] That was 2013 to 2014 [when] we went through the DEA approval process. [I] got the architect involved, and the town planner. They were the two key people for me [during this process], they helped me through a lot of the process, and they were fantastic. I was winging it. Just because I don’t know it, doesn’t mean I don’t go ahead with it, I wing it and find the solutions [and] I find the answers that I need. 

[00:04:11] It’s just really interesting because, I was just thinking when you land bank [the property], even though it’s only for four years, which is still a relatively reasonable short time, but we kind of know as developers it’s still going to take between 12 to 18 months depending on which council [you go through] to just get approval. So there is a lot of time that you’re just going to have to wait, unfortunately. [There is] nothing more you can do until then. But I am assuming that the house still had rental income. 

[00:04:39] Yeah I did. I had rental income there for quite some time, well for most of the time. I ended up letting the tenants go a little bit too early in the end because it took that long to get the house, [and] get the DA through. I was expecting it a little bit too quickly. So I had about six months of the house being empty without that income coming in. It didn’t hurt me too much but it would have been nice to have had that income for that little bit longer.  

Following the successful sale of his first project, Verdouw briefly reentered the corporate realm, engaging in substantial road contract projects in Uganda. 

[00:05:17] But when I finished that [project], I went back into the corporate world, and just kept working. [I] spent some time in Uganda and went down there and lived there for two years while I was working on the Woolgoolga to Ballina upgrade and doing contract procurement there. 

[00:05:33] Oh, nice. 

[00:05:33] Yeah, doing some of the major contracts for road sealing and road paving. 

[00:05:38] What was the reason for jumping back into corporate at that point? 

[00:05:42] Look, it was probably more [about my] personal relationship with my wife. [She] was more comfortable for me [being] in a role earning an income like that than me [being] in [a] business where, in property development, cash flow is terrible. 

[00:06:00] Yes. 

[00:06:02] And you’re trying to bring cash to keep things going. It’s not an easy task. 

[00:06:07] No, it’s always big chunks. Sometimes it might come in, but more than likely, nine times out of 10, it’s always going to be delayed. 

[00:06:15] Absolutely, yeah. 

[00:06:17] So we kind of, as developers, expect that all of the time. 

[00:06:20] It’s a real juggling act in property development. She would have liked me to stay in that [corporate position], [but] in the end, I couldn’t do it anymore. 

[00:06:29] I came back from Yamba back to Brisbane, [and] spent nine months with Hastings Deering during procurement there with Hastings Deering and their Cat equipment. Great organisation to work for; beautiful people there, but my heart wasn’t in it anymore. I needed to get out and work for myself. 

[00:06:53] In the end, I just said look, I’ve got to do it. I was out of work for a bit because I was made redundant in between times, and trying to find work as a guy in his 50s wasn’t an easy task. It convinced me that I needed to go back and work for myself and make my own way in the world. 

Verdouw’s venture into property development took a significant turn when he became part of Rob Flux’s property developer network, ultimately guiding him from a scattered learning approach to a focused and successful strategy. 

[00:07:33] I joined Rob Flux’s property developer network. I did a few more before him; I did Mark Rolton’s Conclave [course]. I’ve done some study; I bought some manuals from other educators out there and just kept learning as much as I could about property development. 

[00:07:55] Yes. 

[00:07:55] In the end, I did Mark Rolten’s Conclave, got home that weekend, and thought it was a great course, but there was something missing out of it for me. I needed more, and I needed someone who could actually have my back as I [was] going through the process. 

[00:08:15] So, I joined Rob Flux’s group, and he got me really focused. I was a little bit too scattergun [in my] approach before Rob [Flux]. I was looking at subdivisions, I was looking at townhouse sites, and I wasn’t really settling down on anything. So I wasn’t achieving anything [and] I wasn’t winning any projects or securing any projects or sites, I should say. 

[00:08:45] Rob [Flux] got me focused; he narrowed me right down, and I focused on just one specific strategy—still on subdivisions, but just one in the twos, [or] one of the threes. That’s all I focused on. Then I picked up my first project, then my second, then my third, then my fourth and then my fifth, and it just kept on snowballing from there. 

[00:09:14] It’s amazing what focus does, isn’t it? 

[00:09:17] It was just [a matter of] getting my mind [right]. When you have a scattergun approach, it’s so hard to secure anything. 

[00:09:23] When you say scattergun, what do you mean? Were you applying for different types of deals all the time?

[00:09:29] Exactly, yeah. It was like a deal would come my way, and I’d be [thinking], oh, that looks interesting, I’ll try [to] do a feasibility on that. Then a deal on another style of development would come, or another strategy development and I would look at that [and] I would think I’ll try that and I’ll do a feasibility on that. 

[00:09:43] But I could never make any of them work; I could never find the right price to secure these projects. One of the things I’ve learned in this whole process is [that] you turn over so many sites before you find one that works. 

[00:09:58] Yeah, very true. 

[00:10:00] One that works for me won’t work for other developers, and one that works for other developers doesn’t work for me, and so on. Two developers will have two different mindsets and two different views and how to look at a site, and they’ll see it differently; I just turn them over quickly. It’s really important that you look at it and find reasons not to do it, and if you can’t find a reason not to do it, then you take it to the next level. 

[00:10:32] Yeah, that’s excellent. It’s like filtering. If you don’t filter anything, especially on the internet nowadays, if you don’t filter anything, you end up just being bombarded with all this information. You become overwhelmed, scattered and then you go, what am I doing? And then you just don’t do anything, then you procrastinate, and then you go, oh gosh, this is too hard, and then you throw it in.  

[00:10:55] The overwhelm creeps in and all this. So, getting that focus was so important and so beneficial for me. That really dragged me right back to something small, and now I can pick a site, look at pretty much any site, and be confident. If the numbers work, great, I’ll put the offer in; if it doesn’t work, the offer doesn’t go in. I don’t even put an offer in if I don’t think it’s going to work.  

After concluding his corporate career, Verdouw plunged himself back into the property realm, taking on a challenging Camp Hill subdivision project fraught with obstacles and hurdles. 

[00:11:38] That was nerve-racking when the settlers came back and said, “Yes, we accept your prices”. And I went, “Oh, shit, now what”. 

[00:11:52] It means it’s real now. 

[00:11:56] It was a splitter in Camp Hill, another Camp Hill project. 

[00:12:02] You must love that suburb. 

[00:12:05] It’s pretty good, it’s been good for me. And then, you know, I had to pull the house down and go through that whole process, and then [I sold] the land. Then, COVID hit, sales fell through. We ended up selling one of the lots at our [indiscernible] price, but the other one we sold for about $60,000 less. So that reduced our profitability so much. 

[00:12:34] Unfortunately, with the agreement with my joint venture partner, because of the agreement structure, I took the hit on that. So my income [from] that was really small; [I got] $23,000 [from] my first project, which hurt, but my second project made up for it. 

[00:12:52] Tell us about your second one. 

[00:12:54] The second one was in Bardon, where [it] was a very steep block of land. I had to put the stormwater in for the land up above. I had to dig that out by hand. [There was] a tree stump halfway up, [and] if [I had] taken the tree stump out, it would have taken half [of] the neighbour’s backyard out as well. 

[00:13:18] I had to cut it on the boundary line with a chainsaw. I was up there for three days cutting the tree stump with a chainsaw. Lucky Workplace Health and Safety wasn’t there because that wouldn’t have been a good sight. But I managed to do it. I finally got the tree stump out of the way, and then I dug the rest by hand.  

[00:13:42] Holy moly. How big was this tree stump? I am trying to understand three days of work. 

[00:13:47] It was probably 1200 millimetres high out of the ground, and then I had to get right down around it. But it was about 800 millimetres in diameter. 

[00:13:59] That’s huge. 

[00:13:59] It was a big tree. Most of it has been cut away by the arborist so I could put the drain [in] there. But I still had to get [the other] half of that stump out. I had to cut it along the boundary. I went through 12 chainsaw blades trying to get through it all. 

[00:14:20] I could imagine. You couldn’t get any machinery in there besides the chainsaw. 

[00:14:22] I could not. The biggest machine I could get in was an eight-tonner. The eight-tonner could only just touch the tree stump. So if it pulled it out, it would have pulled out the whole thing and half the neighbour’s backyard, which wouldn’t have been a good thing. 

[00:14:43] I am already just trying to picture what it looks like. 

[00:14:51] I had planks around it to stand on, but no handrails, no scaffold. It was like, get in, get it done and make it happen. 

Verdouw delves into the formidable challenges he encountered during his second project and the determination he summoned to overcome them. 

[00:15:13] We had some [challenging moments] in this one. I had already invested $40,000 of my own money in this one, and then only to be told that we went through Risksmart, and it got knocked back in Risksmart because there was water; there was [an] overland flow on the road. Then I found out that the overland flow was 800 millimetres deep, and I [thought], “Oh my god, how am I going to make this work?” I started having little heart attacks. 

[00:15:45] Heart palpitations.   

[00:15:47] I was like, “Oh this is going to end my marriage, I’m in trouble here.” 

[00:15:52] I went and had a chat [with] a couple of different town planners; we talked about it. We realised that it was code assessable, [so] we resubmitted [it] through the process, and within a month, it was passed, [and] the DA was approved. 

[00:16:11] That worked out well then. 

[00:16:12] Yeah, because there were already houses upstream from this—that was up the road—that [had] gone through the same [process], [and] they were all approved and so on. The block itself was dry; it was just the road that had the overland flow on it. 

Verdouw shares a memorable story of his pursuit of a property beyond his budget and the unconventional agreement he forged with the property owners to make the purchase. 

[00:16:53] There was an existing house there that I needed to renovate a little bit, paint it up, make it look tidy [and] really nice. But the deal was interesting. When I met the owners, they wanted a million dollars for it; my budget was $900,000 to purchase, and they wanted a million. 

[00:17:11] I said, “Look, I’ll go away, and I’ll come back and talk about it and I’ll see if I can come up with a strategy”. I came back and I said to them, “Look, I can get you [the] million dollars that you need to stay in the deal all the way till the very end when I sell the proprietress, and the sale process is where you’ll get your money”. We talked a bit about it, and for them, the important thing was the million-dollar mark. 

[00:17:41] They didn’t care how long [it took] then. 

[00:17:43] They didn’t care how long or what it was going to take, they just wanted the million dollars, that was their thing. So we agreed on that and they agreed and stayed in the deal. So I started putting some contracts together. We tried an [indiscernible] contract, that had special conditions, [but] that was too difficult [for them] to get their head around. So, my solicitor and myself, we put together an option agreement. 

[00:18:07] Ah, okay. 

[00:18:08] [Regarding] the option agreement, we talked a bit about how the land would sell and what the price points would be. Then they came back to me and said, “What if you get more than what you think they are worth? What if you sell [it] for more?” Well, I thought, here you go, now how am I going to deal with this? So I agreed [and] said, “Look, this is the price point that I think I can sell each property for. If I get more than that, we’ll split the extra 50-50”. 

[00:18:40] Okay, that’s fair. 

[00:18:42] Yeah, so we agreed to split the extra 50-50, and we did. I got a lot more; I got an extra $87,000 more than what I thought I would for the project. I was wrapped after all [the] cost I’d made because I paid for all the development costs; they didn’t pay for anything. I paid for all the DAs and I had to borrow money at 40% interest on that project. 

[00:19:08] You should’ve been talking to me; I would’ve gotten you much less than that. 

[00:19:13] One of the loans was 40%, [and] the other one was 20%; I liked the 20% one; that one was much better. 

[00:19:18] Yes, yes. 

[00:19:18] But it was unsecured funds. They were just on the strength of me delivering a project and making it work. So it was high-risk money, you know, that sort of thing. And it wasn’t a great deal; it was like $120,000 that I borrowed. I paid all that back with the interest, which was great. In the [grand] scheme of things, it wasn’t a lot because it was like $5,000 or $10,000 for one of them and then $15,000 for the other one. So it wasn’t big money. Then I sold it, [and] I made $220,000 profit out of it.  

[00:19:54] That’s fantastic. 

[00:19:55] Which was great. It was a great project and more than what I expected. I expected to make about $100,000 out of it, [so making] a lot more, I was pretty happy with that. 

[00:20:05] That’s great. How long was that project for? 

[00:20:07] It went [on] for about six months. 

[00:20:09] That’s pretty fast 

[00:20:10] Yeah, yeah. The one thing that really hit me in the end or got me on the end was the plan ceiling. That took a lot longer than I expected. [It] took eight weeks, and the sellers were really stressed out about it; I was stressed out about it. I couldn’t hurry the council along. I tried to; I got my solicitor to write to them and see if we could help them make things quicker. Big mistake on my part; [I’m] never doing that again. 

[00:20:41] Yeah, they end up ignoring it and making things longer. 

[00:20:45] So, I just pulled my head in and let the process take its course. 

Verdouw proudly reflects on his remarkable track record at PV Properties, recounting the six profitable projects he has successfully completed, including million-dollar triumphs and strategic makeovers. 

[00:21:21] [We] have successfully completed six projects—two in Bardon, two in Camp Hill, one in Cannon Hill and one in [indiscernible] down south. [The] profitability on one of the Barton was over a million dollars, the one in Roach down south was over a million [dollars and] the one in Cannon Hill was $300,000. They were really profitable projects [sold] at the right time in the market. Now we’ve got the splitter in Brighton on Flinders Parade on the water, one in Coorparoo, which is a subdivision in the high-end home and renovation of the existing home. We’ve got a subdivision in Waterford West [with] 17 lots, which is in for DA at the moment. 

[00:22:21] Wow, that’s big. 

[00:22:22] I have six lots in Cornubia that I am holding at the moment. I’m turning that one into a childcare centre, so that is a really good one. Then another project we are doing due diligence on at the moment, which is up in Kenmore Hills for the 16 lots; we are looking at that one to turn that one into townhouses instead, so I think that will be more favourable with the council. 

Despite the challenges Verdouw has already shared, he emphasises that the most challenging moment he encountered in his property development journey was one that occurred in the past year. 

[00:23:10] I think the hardest or the most challenging one has been the 12 months with the high inflation and construction costs.

[00:23:18] Oh okay. Tell me about that. 

[00:23:20] I knew there were construction cost rises coming, and I was monitoring all of that. But the bill prices that were coming back were just astronomical for what we were looking at. They were almost double what I previously built for the same sort of product, and they were coming in incredibly high. 

[00:23:42] So we’ve had to do a lot of work and delay the projects, so delaying the projects has cost us money in interest and holding costs. So that’s been expensive, and we’ve had to write refinances; the main lender, the senior debt, they decided that after 12 months they wanted out, [which was] fair enough, so I had to refinance those as well, so that’s costly. 

[00:24:08] Those sorts of things have [made it] the toughest year because of high inflation, the market turning and making sure that the projects stay profitable. That’s the key; that you keep working them until such time as you bring them back on track and they remain profitable. 

Verdouw shed light on a valuable lesson he learned from this challenge, underscoring the significance of selecting the right builder to collaborate with. 

[00:24:55] You know, the interesting thing I’ve found is that builders are so unsophisticated here in Brisbane, in the main [area]. There are a couple we’ve found that are really good, but they don’t have a handle on their pricing; they just get a price from a supplier and pass it on. They don’t check it, they don’t assess it for a sensibility or not but they just pass it on and then the prices just go through the roof basically. 

[00:25:28] So, we’ve been lucky [to find] a builder for our Brighton property [who] has a real good grasp of his suppliers and [has a] great relationship with them. He knows how to get the right price out of them. That’s brought the prices for the build right back to where we need it to still make the project profitable. 

[00:25:50] That’s what you need. You have to work with someone who has the experience, has the knowledge and is willing to do it. Otherwise, you’d lose business; the builders probably don’t care because there are other people who need to get things done. 

[00:26:03] Yeah. One builder we had had [a] 30% markup.  

[00:26:08] Wow. 

[00:26:09] We found that out by interrogating him. He had [a] 30% markup because he didn’t know whether the prices would stay the same or not. And you know what, I don’t want to pay that 30%. That's just ridiculous. That’s my risk, not his. 

[00:26:27] Exactly. And you don’t know until you sell the [property you don’t know] if you are going to get that margin. So you are taking a lot of risks too. 

[00:26:34] Yeah, exactly. So it’s my income at risk, I mean, this is my business. I need to make sure [and] I need to manage all my lenders [and] my JV partners; I need to manage their risk and manage my risk because they all get paid first, I am the last one that gets paid so I want to make sure that there’s something left for me too. 

Verdouw uncovers his most profound ‘aha moment’ from his property journey, a revelation that has transformed his perspective and fielded his determination to achieve even greater success. 

[00:27:06] It’s just how much you can actually achieve when you don’t believe you can. [When] everything is stacked up against you but you just keep going and it's that ‘aha’ just don’t stop, never stop. Every hurdle that comes up there’s a solution to every problem that comes along. It may not sound like an ‘aha moment’, but it’s probably the biggest thing that I’ve come through in my whole life. You just keep going. 

[00:27:50] Even with the biggest challenges. Yeah, I totally agree with you; that’s so important because sometimes if you just give up, that really does mean that you give up. If you keep going you’ll find a way. 

[00:28:01] Yeah, find a way; there is a solution to every single problem out there.  

Verdouw reflects on the impact of meticulously studying property development manuals and integrating valuable lessons from his experience working in larger engineering companies on his property journey. 

[00:28:23] I met Jones and bought his property development manuals; back in 2017, I bought his manuals. I’ve reviewed a lot, I’ve just researched a lot over the years and just read everything that I could about property development to learn as much as I can about it. 

[00:28:46] And then from there you have taken a lot of them whole didn’t you, and just applied them. 

[00:28:49] When I worked in these big engineering global companies, a lot of the learnings [I had] from those organisations too. One of the great mantras I found [and] I felt was a good mantra Sinclair Knight Merz was slow and steady wealth creation. Don’t rush it; just make sure you do what you can manage. You only do what you can manage. Your slow and steady wealth creation is sustainable, [which] means that you can build wealth and create a solid foundation going forward. 

Verdouw shares the advice he believes would have been most beneficial for his younger self a decade ago, emphasising the importance of perseverance and belief in one’s ability to achieve success. 

[00:29:35] Just keep going with your plan because you’ll get there. Just because I’ve always been, you know, when I achieved something, I know 10 years ago, once I got a new role, I thought, “What’s my next journey?” I didn’t just sit there and sit in that new role or that new job and enjoy it. I thought, right well, what’s my next one that I can achieve. But back then, I probably worried a bit [about] whether I would achieve a lot of the things that I ended up achieving. So I’d say to myself, just keep going; you will do it; you will get there. 

Verdouw shares his enthusiasm for the upcoming milestones in his property development journey and the ambitious goals he aims to accomplish. 

[00:30:35] You know, my son’s in the business, [and] I want the business to grow further. I’m looking for a partner to come into the business to help with [it’s] growth because we are primed for more growth. 

[00:30:49] I can see big things for us, and eventually, our target is to grow the business to $200 million in GRV; that’s primarily so that I can pull back and semi-retire. I don’t think I’ll ever fully retire; I’ll be around to annoy my son for a long time. I just want to have a business that’s sustainable and for the long term, something that my son can carry on, and to leave a legacy for him and for my family. 

[00:31:24] How much of your success do you think has been because of the skill, hard work [and] intelligence? How much do you think you would have been because of luck?

[00:31:43] I think there’s a mixture of everything in it. I think you put yourself out there, luck comes your way. If you work hard and you just keep going, you do make your own luck. 

[00:31:59] Yeah. 

[00:32:00] You really do make it yourself by putting yourself [out there] and just going for it and not stopping. And I think a lot of determination, just sheer determination to keep going in the face of people, events, or circumstances. Putting walls up all the time, and just going around that wall or over it or under it all, whatever needs to be. 

Thank you to Phil Verdouw, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.