Episode 32 : Latina Equal Pay Day
October 30, 2020
Latina Equal Pay Day
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Michele Heyward
0:01
Hello, everybody, thank you so much for joining us. We are here for another dei discussion. And I say we because I have KC Atha with me today. Hey, girl, hey, today is Latina Equal Pay Day, and we’re going to talk about it in a couple different lenses. If KC and I were having this discussion in the green room, like, why are we having this here, we should be having this live with all of you. So first of all, welcome. We are going to get in on the numerical side, as KC says, The capitalism side. So why don’t you say Hey, what’s up to the people and and talk about the two sides we’re going to discuss today. All right.
0:01
Hello, everybody, thank you so much for joining us. We are here for another dei discussion. And I say we because I have KC Atha with me today. Hey, girl, hey, today is Latina Equal Pay Day, and we’re going to talk about it in a couple different lenses. If KC and I were having this discussion in the green room, like, why are we having this here, we should be having this live with all of you. So first of all, welcome. We are going to get in on the numerical side, as KC says, The capitalism side. So why don’t you say Hey, what’s up to the people and and talk about the two sides we’re going to discuss today. All right.
K.C. Atha
0:49
So I will try and be succinct for basically I see this from two angles, doing DNI, there’s two main angles, there’s the social justice angle. So we do it, because it’s the right thing to do. And it aligns with our values and our ethics. Then there’s the other side where it’s the business case, or the capitalism case? Or how do we make more money and leverage marginalized identities in order to make more money, or more, you know, accumulate more resources, wealth, whatever. So to me, those are sort of the two lenses that we’re looking at that we are talking about Latina Equal Pay Day. And so when Michelle came in to our green room conversation, saying, oh, man, there’s this article she and I both read about and how much money is being lost, because we are not paid equally, how much money our economy is losing out because of this pay gap. And my reaction was like, Yes, and I don’t want to be paid equally, because it will create more resources and economic resources for our country, I want to get paid more, because I’ve actually seen as valuable. And that value is actually paid equally to other people or that are seen as valuable as well. So I’m just like, That, to me is like the crux, it’s like see me as valuable as mattering. So that’s just sort of the intersection of our conversation.
0:49
So I will try and be succinct for basically I see this from two angles, doing DNI, there’s two main angles, there’s the social justice angle. So we do it, because it’s the right thing to do. And it aligns with our values and our ethics. Then there’s the other side where it’s the business case, or the capitalism case? Or how do we make more money and leverage marginalized identities in order to make more money, or more, you know, accumulate more resources, wealth, whatever. So to me, those are sort of the two lenses that we’re looking at that we are talking about Latina Equal Pay Day. And so when Michelle came in to our green room conversation, saying, oh, man, there’s this article she and I both read about and how much money is being lost, because we are not paid equally, how much money our economy is losing out because of this pay gap. And my reaction was like, Yes, and I don’t want to be paid equally, because it will create more resources and economic resources for our country, I want to get paid more, because I’ve actually seen as valuable. And that value is actually paid equally to other people or that are seen as valuable as well. So I’m just like, That, to me is like the crux, it’s like see me as valuable as mattering. So that’s just sort of the intersection of our conversation.
Michele Heyward
2:27
Yes, so Latina Equal Pay Day is literally the the definition or the date in which is observed is how many days it takes a Latina to receive the same amount of pay as a non Hispanic white man. And so we are talking how long KC
2:27
Yes, so Latina Equal Pay Day is literally the the definition or the date in which is observed is how many days it takes a Latina to receive the same amount of pay as a non Hispanic white man. And so we are talking how long KC
K.C. Atha
2:55
22 to 23 months to earn what a white man makes in 12. So last year, equal pay day was 23 months, this year, well, it’s hitting 22 months, but with the pandemic, come on, who are we kidding, the pandemic is hitting the Latino community harder. The the pandemic is hit, you know, a lot of Latina women are dropping out of the workforce, because culturally, oftentimes, it’s seen as more important for women to be at home raising children. The machismo culture tells us that men are the ones to be outworking, women are supposed to so those traditional roles are sometimes still very strong in the Latino community. And so we’re seeing some of those numbers play out in the pandemic. And when folks drop out, we often know that oftentimes when women drop out for multiple reasons, the on ramps are not there when they try to get back into the workforce, let alone trying to get back at the level that they were or at a higher level.
2:55
22 to 23 months to earn what a white man makes in 12. So last year, equal pay day was 23 months, this year, well, it’s hitting 22 months, but with the pandemic, come on, who are we kidding, the pandemic is hitting the Latino community harder. The the pandemic is hit, you know, a lot of Latina women are dropping out of the workforce, because culturally, oftentimes, it’s seen as more important for women to be at home raising children. The machismo culture tells us that men are the ones to be outworking, women are supposed to so those traditional roles are sometimes still very strong in the Latino community. And so we’re seeing some of those numbers play out in the pandemic. And when folks drop out, we often know that oftentimes when women drop out for multiple reasons, the on ramps are not there when they try to get back into the workforce, let alone trying to get back at the level that they were or at a higher level.
Michele Heyward
3:55
Exactly. And and I see that quite often on my side with women periods. So it’s not it’s not surprising. So we’re talking about Latinas getting paid 54 is it 4554 54 cents, 54 cents to the dollar of a white man. And so you’re talking about, imagine if you went into the grocery store, and you could only purchase 54% of the groceries, you need to feed your family, you could only afford to pay 54% of your bills, your housing, your utilities, your food, clothing, all of those expenses, your necessities, right? Only 54% of that, what does a family go without because a Latina is only getting paid 54 cents to $1. And so we think about the inequalities that come from that, that disparities that come from that the ability maybe you want your child is and we talked about this often. We’ll see videos of people In in the hood, who are great at gymnastics, like, Oh, my God look at it, what if they had opportunity to take a gymnastics class, but the family can’t afford those necessities because you’re getting paid 54 cents to $1. And so the ability to really hone in on the skills that you as a Latina have, that your, your your children have, and other family members, you don’t have that because you are significantly underpaid. So just think about the ability to pay for healthcare or getting a second opinion, the first opinion, let’s say you have that coverage was covered. That second opinion is not you have to pay for it. And so it is it then or the even the availability to where you live, because you’re only getting paid for 54 cents to the dollar to the help you really need is now even more limited because of that lag. And so you really to me, that 54 cents of that gap talks to what you’re not able to do, how your access is limited, and how it truly impacts you. As far as financial wealth, and mental health, as well as physical health. So there are so many different impacts that people forget when they see just the 54 cents, or and and and they’re like well, that’s if you know if you think about all the service shops they had, but Tina’s are still underpaid in tech. So they’re highly trained, they’re highly educated, they’re highly motivated, and they’re still being underpaid. Now, let’s go into what KC LA and I both but this is what she’s passionate about. That’s the capitalism side, right? Let’s talk about what’s really the under line reasons for this, this pay gap, this inequality impact.
3:55
Exactly. And and I see that quite often on my side with women periods. So it’s not it’s not surprising. So we’re talking about Latinas getting paid 54 is it 4554 54 cents, 54 cents to the dollar of a white man. And so you’re talking about, imagine if you went into the grocery store, and you could only purchase 54% of the groceries, you need to feed your family, you could only afford to pay 54% of your bills, your housing, your utilities, your food, clothing, all of those expenses, your necessities, right? Only 54% of that, what does a family go without because a Latina is only getting paid 54 cents to $1. And so we think about the inequalities that come from that, that disparities that come from that the ability maybe you want your child is and we talked about this often. We’ll see videos of people In in the hood, who are great at gymnastics, like, Oh, my God look at it, what if they had opportunity to take a gymnastics class, but the family can’t afford those necessities because you’re getting paid 54 cents to $1. And so the ability to really hone in on the skills that you as a Latina have, that your, your your children have, and other family members, you don’t have that because you are significantly underpaid. So just think about the ability to pay for healthcare or getting a second opinion, the first opinion, let’s say you have that coverage was covered. That second opinion is not you have to pay for it. And so it is it then or the even the availability to where you live, because you’re only getting paid for 54 cents to the dollar to the help you really need is now even more limited because of that lag. And so you really to me, that 54 cents of that gap talks to what you’re not able to do, how your access is limited, and how it truly impacts you. As far as financial wealth, and mental health, as well as physical health. So there are so many different impacts that people forget when they see just the 54 cents, or and and and they’re like well, that’s if you know if you think about all the service shops they had, but Tina’s are still underpaid in tech. So they’re highly trained, they’re highly educated, they’re highly motivated, and they’re still being underpaid. Now, let’s go into what KC LA and I both but this is what she’s passionate about. That’s the capitalism side, right? Let’s talk about what’s really the under line reasons for this, this pay gap, this inequality impact.
K.C. Atha
6:49
I think we’re underestimated. Like I think we’re underestimated. Number one, that happens a lot all the time, which is one of the reasons why I’m an entrepreneur, because I have to self appoint my expertise, my ability to be a leader, etc. That’s how I’ve seen it. And that’s how I’ve experienced it. So if you want to be in a leadership position, sometimes they’re looking for social cues to tell them Okay, I will trust that KC is someone who is ready to be in a leadership position. And who are those people making those decisions? They don’t look like me. I don’t look like their wife, I don’t look like their daughter, maybe I don’t act and sound like them. You know. So there’s a lack of comfort, there’s lack of understanding, we oftentimes me included, love to work with people who are like us, like me. And that’s very dangerous when that happens when we are in positions of leadership in positions of decision making positions. And oftentimes, we will just think, Okay, well, this person is very green, is what I’ve been told before. Why because I come across as very authentic, very direct, very humble and vulnerable with a lot of my experiences. So this is how I’ve experienced interviews being let down for positions that I was trying to get in to leadership higher level position. So that’s the first thing is we are being viewed through the lens of whiteness, or maleness or something that is just different is the dominant identity. So that to me, is the underlying thing that I’m trying to teach folks in organizations, when you do hiring processes. How are we evaluating the folks that we are trying to get into leadership positions? And through what lens? I like folks who are like me what is like me? And is it possible that folks who are not like me and XY and Z ways are still going to be awesome in that position, and possibly bring and cover for some of my own personal blind spots are the spaces where I have not my area of genius. So This to me is really the underlying thing. And it’s all comes down to the dominant decision making so dominant identities and decision making folks who are oftentimes those dominant identities and so what we who are not in the dominant identity, try to break in, they’re like, You don’t look like me. You don’t sound like me, and you don’t have my point of view. So No, thanks.
6:49
I think we’re underestimated. Like I think we’re underestimated. Number one, that happens a lot all the time, which is one of the reasons why I’m an entrepreneur, because I have to self appoint my expertise, my ability to be a leader, etc. That’s how I’ve seen it. And that’s how I’ve experienced it. So if you want to be in a leadership position, sometimes they’re looking for social cues to tell them Okay, I will trust that KC is someone who is ready to be in a leadership position. And who are those people making those decisions? They don’t look like me. I don’t look like their wife, I don’t look like their daughter, maybe I don’t act and sound like them. You know. So there’s a lack of comfort, there’s lack of understanding, we oftentimes me included, love to work with people who are like us, like me. And that’s very dangerous when that happens when we are in positions of leadership in positions of decision making positions. And oftentimes, we will just think, Okay, well, this person is very green, is what I’ve been told before. Why because I come across as very authentic, very direct, very humble and vulnerable with a lot of my experiences. So this is how I’ve experienced interviews being let down for positions that I was trying to get in to leadership higher level position. So that’s the first thing is we are being viewed through the lens of whiteness, or maleness or something that is just different is the dominant identity. So that to me, is the underlying thing that I’m trying to teach folks in organizations, when you do hiring processes. How are we evaluating the folks that we are trying to get into leadership positions? And through what lens? I like folks who are like me what is like me? And is it possible that folks who are not like me and XY and Z ways are still going to be awesome in that position, and possibly bring and cover for some of my own personal blind spots are the spaces where I have not my area of genius. So This to me is really the underlying thing. And it’s all comes down to the dominant decision making so dominant identities and decision making folks who are oftentimes those dominant identities and so what we who are not in the dominant identity, try to break in, they’re like, You don’t look like me. You don’t sound like me, and you don’t have my point of view. So No, thanks.
Michele Heyward
9:22
Yeah. The best man for the job was Latina. What the best man for their job was Latina. They, so so we were having this, it was a Twitter chat. And they were like, you know, what are some gender bias biases you see in job descriptions? They’re like, we’re looking for a sales man. Why? Why not a salesperson. So there are so many different things that are impacted. If you caught my live stream last night with Lisa Anderson. There was a very great question that was asked. Will was with a lady who is very, she has a strong personality. And she manages with that personality. And she’s always told by her manager she needs to improve on it yet it’s a trait that men were are rewarded on he has continuously tell the manager like what you reward at no abmc on this, why is it punishment, I need to be trained on it. organizations need to understand that their managers are bringing in issues and biases that they need to check themselves on. So whether it and this particular person she was, she was in a good place. And she had a sponsor who understood her work ethic, her personality, and they were like, Nah, you You’re good, keep doing what you’re doing. But she had to consistently tell new manager, this is an issue that I have is a bias that you have. And so we have to make sure that these managers are getting the training. And that is a huge issue we’re seeing especially in mid management, when it comes to biases, whether it’s Latina or black women, the mid managers are not properly trained. Like you said that I want somebody who looks like me that’s not the best person for the job. I my favorite gynecologist just Just follow me to colleges is in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Let me tell you why. She would wear her miniskirt, her knee high boots. That’s what she did with her white coat on she dress hush hush the how the hell she wanted to dress. But what really made me and is she she was referred to me by then I was I admin for the project, who was a Tulsa native. And I said in the in my room, and it said, Would you visit a mechanic? Would you go to a mechanic who didn’t have a car, then why would you go in other? Why would you go to an OB who didn’t have a vagina. So I was like, This is my spot. Great point. So so you really need to have people understand and really train people through different lenses. And they and instead they’re sending more women to training to be more like men where they need to send men to training, understand what black women, Latinas LGBTQ people go through every single day. So they understand how to improve themselves. Number one, so. So it’s really important. So just just a swing that back, is when you look at the way processes and systems systemic racism is set up, everybody has to fit into whiteness, what we’re saying is in organizations, you need to figure out what your process is. And with recruiting, retention, career advancement, access to training, access to sponsors, access to executive leaders, looks like in your organization, and you need to restructure that. Because if everybody that gets that looks like you, you are the problem. Point Blank periods. So it needs to be reassessed. And to go through that process. I’m I know, I’m gonna get this message. And I don’t want to get this message. Some people jumped in a long time. So anyway, um, KC, anything you want to add as we wrap up?
9:22
Yeah. The best man for the job was Latina. What the best man for their job was Latina. They, so so we were having this, it was a Twitter chat. And they were like, you know, what are some gender bias biases you see in job descriptions? They’re like, we’re looking for a sales man. Why? Why not a salesperson. So there are so many different things that are impacted. If you caught my live stream last night with Lisa Anderson. There was a very great question that was asked. Will was with a lady who is very, she has a strong personality. And she manages with that personality. And she’s always told by her manager she needs to improve on it yet it’s a trait that men were are rewarded on he has continuously tell the manager like what you reward at no abmc on this, why is it punishment, I need to be trained on it. organizations need to understand that their managers are bringing in issues and biases that they need to check themselves on. So whether it and this particular person she was, she was in a good place. And she had a sponsor who understood her work ethic, her personality, and they were like, Nah, you You’re good, keep doing what you’re doing. But she had to consistently tell new manager, this is an issue that I have is a bias that you have. And so we have to make sure that these managers are getting the training. And that is a huge issue we’re seeing especially in mid management, when it comes to biases, whether it’s Latina or black women, the mid managers are not properly trained. Like you said that I want somebody who looks like me that’s not the best person for the job. I my favorite gynecologist just Just follow me to colleges is in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Let me tell you why. She would wear her miniskirt, her knee high boots. That’s what she did with her white coat on she dress hush hush the how the hell she wanted to dress. But what really made me and is she she was referred to me by then I was I admin for the project, who was a Tulsa native. And I said in the in my room, and it said, Would you visit a mechanic? Would you go to a mechanic who didn’t have a car, then why would you go in other? Why would you go to an OB who didn’t have a vagina. So I was like, This is my spot. Great point. So so you really need to have people understand and really train people through different lenses. And they and instead they’re sending more women to training to be more like men where they need to send men to training, understand what black women, Latinas LGBTQ people go through every single day. So they understand how to improve themselves. Number one, so. So it’s really important. So just just a swing that back, is when you look at the way processes and systems systemic racism is set up, everybody has to fit into whiteness, what we’re saying is in organizations, you need to figure out what your process is. And with recruiting, retention, career advancement, access to training, access to sponsors, access to executive leaders, looks like in your organization, and you need to restructure that. Because if everybody that gets that looks like you, you are the problem. Point Blank periods. So it needs to be reassessed. And to go through that process. I’m I know, I’m gonna get this message. And I don’t want to get this message. Some people jumped in a long time. So anyway, um, KC, anything you want to add as we wrap up?
K.C. Atha
13:36
Yeah, just one last thing. Some organizations are doing great work at looking at the pay gaps in their organizations. And they’re even saying, okay, we see that there’s an equity and pay, we’re not, you know, we see the gaps, we’re bringing folks up that have been not paid equally to the level that they should be at. Awesome, awesome. And that is fixing the outcome that a process created. Look at the process that created that outcome. I’m glad everyone’s bringing folks up and look at the process. And when you look at these outcomes and disparities and gaps, do it through an intersectional lens. Don’t just look at the difference between men and women’s pay. Look at the difference between, you know, the different women’s pay. So this is the last Pay Day, Latinas are paid the least amount, don’t clump up all the women together. So women’s Equal Pay Day, which we already did a whole conversation around. And we already told you why. So just go back to that. But it’s the reality is, we have different identities and intersections of identities that actually result in different outcomes. So when y’all are looking at it, look at it through that intersectional lens. Please, please, please. And Latinas also, are not just black and white and everything or Latinas are the whole spectrum right? Race is a social construct. And Latinx identity, depending on our skin and how we present may identify differently, may experience the world differently. And so that’s also something else to think about. So I mean, it is very nuanced because supremacy culture is trying to put hierarchies and they just didn’t do a great job. I mean, it was good enough to like keep oppression going and hoarding of resources up to the top to the dominant culture, but it has left us out not understanding how we work and so through the courts, we try and like increase our proximity to whiteness to increase our wealth. Um, so there’s just a lot of nuance there. And it’s just not as easy as saying, what are the pay outcomes of lateen x? How do they identify racially that lateen x group
13:36
Yeah, just one last thing. Some organizations are doing great work at looking at the pay gaps in their organizations. And they’re even saying, okay, we see that there’s an equity and pay, we’re not, you know, we see the gaps, we’re bringing folks up that have been not paid equally to the level that they should be at. Awesome, awesome. And that is fixing the outcome that a process created. Look at the process that created that outcome. I’m glad everyone’s bringing folks up and look at the process. And when you look at these outcomes and disparities and gaps, do it through an intersectional lens. Don’t just look at the difference between men and women’s pay. Look at the difference between, you know, the different women’s pay. So this is the last Pay Day, Latinas are paid the least amount, don’t clump up all the women together. So women’s Equal Pay Day, which we already did a whole conversation around. And we already told you why. So just go back to that. But it’s the reality is, we have different identities and intersections of identities that actually result in different outcomes. So when y’all are looking at it, look at it through that intersectional lens. Please, please, please. And Latinas also, are not just black and white and everything or Latinas are the whole spectrum right? Race is a social construct. And Latinx identity, depending on our skin and how we present may identify differently, may experience the world differently. And so that’s also something else to think about. So I mean, it is very nuanced because supremacy culture is trying to put hierarchies and they just didn’t do a great job. I mean, it was good enough to like keep oppression going and hoarding of resources up to the top to the dominant culture, but it has left us out not understanding how we work and so through the courts, we try and like increase our proximity to whiteness to increase our wealth. Um, so there’s just a lot of nuance there. And it’s just not as easy as saying, what are the pay outcomes of lateen x? How do they identify racially that lateen x group
Michele Heyward
15:50
Okay, ladies, we are at the end of patriot patriot ruled the end of an era where women and indigenous are subjugated and held in a lesser right, we will take back our power and we can then and we can fake the shutdown because women are and are booming, excellent entrepreneurs while being mothers, leaders, etc. is still we rise I support and uplift you. Thank you so much. Thanks for your patience. All right, we are going to get out of here we will be back. We’re running into the holiday season here in the US. So the schedule will be will be changing as we take time off as whatever that looks like during a pandemic. So, but we do have I think what three more sessions will be on live together. Otherwise I’ll be by myself. But, but I can handle it. I can handle. Alright everybody, have a great week. Bye.
15:50
Okay, ladies, we are at the end of patriot patriot ruled the end of an era where women and indigenous are subjugated and held in a lesser right, we will take back our power and we can then and we can fake the shutdown because women are and are booming, excellent entrepreneurs while being mothers, leaders, etc. is still we rise I support and uplift you. Thank you so much. Thanks for your patience. All right, we are going to get out of here we will be back. We’re running into the holiday season here in the US. So the schedule will be will be changing as we take time off as whatever that looks like during a pandemic. So, but we do have I think what three more sessions will be on live together. Otherwise I’ll be by myself. But, but I can handle it. I can handle. Alright everybody, have a great week. Bye.
K.C. Atha
16:56
All right. Bye.
16:56
All right. Bye.