Behind The Mic w/ Dr. Linda Martin PhD
September 2, 2020
When you start a podcast with an amazing organization, you don't do small. You bring out the big guns in safety, and drop the hammer hard.
Not only did she honor our pleas to be on the show, she brought tears of laughter rolling down our legs.
Dr. Martin graciously waited through a variety of technical issues while we attempted to start the podcast, and in true Linda Martin fashion ripped us a well-deserved **s when we got it into motion.
Brilliant, well skilled in conversation, and amazingly diverse in the numerous fields of safety, our show did very little in highlighting the universal impact Dr. Martin has played in our professional field, and on the future of this profession.
With her recent development of the Soteria Society, she has already made a global impact on bringing safety professionals and laypersons together in a truly professional manner regardless of their level of knowledge or abilities.
We hope to speak with her again on this show – but for a 48 hour special, and that’s just on Chicken and Dumplings.
[00:00:01] spk_0: you know, this'll visited. This show is brought to you by safety FM ableto lead roles of caution tape in a single bound stronger than a wet paper towel her nearer than a cow pie in the desert sun on coming to you from East Tennessee. It's Alan. The safety guy put on them safety glasses. Where's your heart tone shoes? I say I say you want a heap of trouble, boy. Now here is the podcast you've been waiting for. Hi, I'm Jared Kitchens. And this is L. Wolfert. This is Baby Stout. And we welcome you all to this podcast of dragging up 60 behind the mic with Dr Linda F. Martin Ph. D. So we've got Dr Martin with us. This is our very first show under the under the safety FM. Uh, family of shows for variety of things, but this is our very first show under the safety FM family. We've asked Dr Linda to come on because he is probably one of the most amazing in the safety industry that I've got Thio interact with linked in. I don't know her personally yet, but by the end of the podcast, I'm sure either there will be a restraining order or an adoption notice. So, getting into this Linda, we have a great question for you. How sure. How did you become a doctor? And what specific field are you? A doctor
[00:01:36] spk_1: s. Oh, I've actually only been a doctor for six months, actually, a little longer than six months. I finished up my dissertation on New Year's Eve of last year. So I was a doctor in 2019 but really mostly a doctor in 2020. And my doctor, it's an occupational health and safety.
[00:01:55] spk_0: And what led up to that? What do you do prior to being a doctor? Was your working in the field or where you working in another aspect of safety? And then you felt going into the doctor program would benefit safety profession.
[00:02:09] spk_1: I got into featuring back in 2014. Somebody on the board of directors that I sat on was a teaching in the bachelor's and master's area, and I got interested in that, and that's kind of one of the reasons that I got the doctorate. But before that it was a kind of a Jane of all trades master of absolutely nothing still master of absolutely nothing but in my in my working life, I've been a geologist. I've been a project manager for environmental project. I've owned my own business, is a consultant in safety. I've worked for environmental remediation firm that built through mediation systems all over the world. One of the most notable projects was in Danang, Vietnam treating Agent Orange. Oh, yeah. And well, it was a crane safety director, And I've also done a bunch of other things. I've been a police officer in Maine, and I also I worked on an organic be farmed
[00:03:19] spk_0: organic beef,
[00:03:21] spk_1: organic beef. It was basically was organic. Everything but the main product was beef.
[00:03:27] spk_0: Okay, well, Betty, now I know you just got your S p and with you helping with the hosting of shows, uh, what are your thoughts? Are you thinking about moving up and hopefully getting a PhD or you looking at, uh, staying into some of the B. C S P principles of moving up CSP. What about you on the educational side? And is there any question you have for Linda about achieving that level of education? Well, I feel like I still left part of my soul back there with that testing booth for the S P s. I haven't I haven't I
[00:04:00] spk_1: haven't fully recuperated from that.
[00:04:01] spk_0: So I think probably my next steps right now is just to push on to the CSP and then maybe look at something from their kinda actually started looking at some master's programs and, like safety engineering, I really I'm at a place that kind of my career that I'm not really sure exactly where I wanna go until, like, maybe the safety engineering, I've kind of looked at the consulting stuff and maybe going into and getting like, the A r M or or whatever some of those certifications are. I just don't really know. There's so many places I think you could go from here. I'm just trying to feel it out, really.
[00:04:42] spk_1: Take your time. And when When it's right, it'll appear.
[00:04:46] spk_0: So Doc happens good with her, given that out. You know, uh, prior to you getting the PH. D. Did you go through a series of certifications in order to obtain, you know, like a safety designation prior to this? Or is this something you just did incrementally through the education system.
[00:05:05] spk_1: Oh, man. You know, I'm kind of a lifelong learner. And so when I was doing project Management, I got an MBA. When I was a consultant and I was doing more safety practice and more safety consulting. I got a master's in safety, and then when I decided I was going to teach e really kind of wanted to teach at the Masters level in order to teach at the Masters level, you have to kind of go to the PhD. And so I just kept going, and I actually just applied and got accepted to the cyber security and critical infrastructure and construction program at Capital Tech. So I'm doing that simultaneously with working there. Did I lose? You
[00:05:47] spk_0: know, No, I just didn't know if you're gonna have a little bit of follow up on that. So, you know, one of the things we've got, a syriza shows coming up, and a lot of it's going to be about training and one of things Betty and myself and others have seen, uh, you know, there there's a current trend out there, especially with recruitment. You know where they're looking for C. S. P s for $15 an hour. Uh, they're looking for personals with certain, and it's not just the B. C S P designation. It's N e S p and N C c er. If he was to tell a young woman or a young man going into the trades, what do you feel a Z a doctorate in safety, do you think, or do you have any opinion on what would be the best thing for them to start learning about safety? There's been a lot of commentary today on one of the safety side. Tell Facebook that people should start out with, like the OSHA 10 OSHA 30 then 5 10 500. Do you think that that's good? Or, you know, do you think that there's another way to go about becoming a good safety professional?
[00:06:55] spk_1: I think there's a way for every single person out there I no longer buy into the whole This is the track you have to take right the bachelor's degree and then the A S P than the CSP and a masters. PhD, whatever. I think there are as many pathways as people who want to be in our profession. So you know, when you talk about the trades, right? I think some of the best safety people come from the trades right, because because they learnt their trade and they learn how to do do the tasks and the risk involved in the tasks. And then when they get a bug for safety, they probably one of the best teachers and convince er's in the field that we could get. Does that answer your question? Now
[00:07:44] spk_0: It does. It does. It just seems to be a lot of issues right now, especially with Kobe. People are saying, Well, I can't get into this class, you know, because they're wanting to do it online and I guess there's a variety of issues and things like that. But there's a lot of young men and women out in the industry wanted to build up. But people have a variety. They're saying Hey, get your college degree, then get into the trades. Others they're saying trades first, you know, Then get your basic OSHA. So I just want some of the inside on what you thought might help somebody in today's, you know, safety profession and building up.
[00:08:20] spk_1: So I'll use that as a segue. My sister's 54 years old, and she has a G D high school diploma. Maybe. Maybe it's a high school diploma, and she's just getting started in safety right now. And so one of the things that I've coached her on is the 30 hour. Possibly getting the 40 hour OSHA has Walker and then trying Thio get like either an internship or an entry level job in the field while she gets her degree and, you know, and again, that's not the path for everybody. But, you know, when you talk about getting started and learning the actual basics, 10 and 30 hour courses are a great place to start.
[00:09:04] spk_0: So, Betty, when you started up, what was one of the first things you did to prepare for safety? Aziz, being a career choice, actually started with my bachelor's degree in safety, so just kind of went from there. It took me about 20 years to do it, but I got it finished. Yeah, so with that bachelor's, uh, do you think that that gave you some good insight? Or do you think that there would have been another way that you would have approaches? Well, I did. I did the Columbia Southern, and I graduated from that in 2016 e. I don't want to say anything bad about their program because I know that they have revamp the curriculum and stuff so they would meet like the criteria for the GSP. So when I'm thinnest, it did not meet that criteria. And I feel like, honestly that it was way easy and I thought it was either. I'm like super super smart, which, you know I could be. But this'll is like, super easy. A lot of just It was easy and I kind of felt like and I had no other At the time. There wasn't when I first started. Columbia Southern was the only one offering safety degree online. Now you could go Teoh a lot of different universities and get it, But that was my only option. I worked full time. Even the local colleges didn't offer those courses at night like in the adult top education. So that was the only place I could go. And I know I've seen some their curriculum since I finished and it has gotten a lot better. But, you know, I kind of honestly kind of felt like I was short changed a little bit, I guess, on the education part of it, I wish it had been a little harder and a little more challenging. What made you think it was a challenging enough? And then this is gonna lead into something else that will go to Linda. Well, the way that they had the classes set up, almost every class was set up the same. So each class had, like, say, 10 modules or 10 assignments. Within those 10 assignments, they had maybe 1 to 10 multiple choice answers or questions and answers and maybe, like two short essay questions, like 200 to 500 word essay questions. And then the final exam was like a 507 100 word essay so you could high. So I'll give you credit just for knowing that what I mean, but that the you could pass and not even crack open the textbook. Okay, it was that easy. Well, Linda is you're experiencing, you know, being a doctorate and probably working, you know, a lot with certifying bodies. Um, do you feel that sometimes the educational standards for any trade, whether it be safety or anything, are heavily influenced because right now you know, they say the No Child Left Behind Act is still, I guess, in part it's still in effect because there are people with a variety of learning disorders or learning disabilities. Do you think the safety program in itself for certifying bodies? Do you think that there could be improvements? Do you think possibly and and just personal, not as a professional, however you wanna do it personally? Do you feel that sometimes that there's just you and I bring this up because after what bet? He said, I want to say 12 or 13 people have spoke to earlier in the month said that, you know, as a safety guy out in the field, they didn't need to know how to adjust for NMR. They didn't need to know certain rates. Do you think for ah, lot of the safety matters a lot of safety director's air up and coming? Do you think that safety training should be more challenging or do you think it should be more involved?
[00:12:53] spk_1: So you're gonna get me in trouble? I'm not gonna talk about certifying body. No, I'm just But I will say I will say this. I think I'm gonna go back to my same answer. I gave you a little bit earlier and say what you need to know really depends on what you're doing, right? You know, one safety guy or gal might need to know this suite of things, but somebody else working in a different company that's smaller or larger may need to know something different. And so, you know, I think what the safety profession has tried to do is tow level the playing field by, um, saying you know, everybody should have everybody. Bachelor's degree is a base, right? And then that's that makes you a professional, right? And then certain certification should follow on after that. But I'm not really sure that that's the path for everybody. And I and I really don't think that everybody's knowledge base needs to be the same. You know, I go back Thio when I talk about people who know a lot. I've worked in construction with some safety people, safety managers that can run circles around me and who I call when I need a phone, a friend, and they neither have certifications or degrees. Okay, um so I guess It just depends, Alan. I mean, it depends on who you are, where you are, what your background is, where you're gonna go with things. You know, I'm a big believer and follow your path.
[00:14:29] spk_0: I noticed one of the things I e was thinking about this prior to the interview when I was struck, talking to a lot of the construction guys back from my construction days. A lot of them wanted field safety not their managers, but field safety to come from the trades specifically because they knew the hazards of the environment. They knew welders and gasses and all the things associated with that. But they wanted their managers. I have a higher level of training so that they could, you know, do the documentation set him up for success through the management programs.
[00:15:04] spk_1: That may be true is you work your way up that we need more education or more broader knowledge base. But I think what we've done with pushing everybody needs a degree is we've made these safety professionals who actually have no practical experience in anything, right? And they come out and they work for four years, and then they get a CSP and then they sit in an office or they try to dictate what a program is going to be like when they actually haven't really implemented the craft. If that makes sense,
[00:15:39] spk_0: no, it does. It does eso with you moving up and have him went up through the layers as an SP Uh, currently, when you've been taking this additional training, have you felt that this additional training I'm just asking this because, you know, to go from one level to another, I know you have tohave much more information. Has it benefited you for the current position or just in safety overall, both really good. I have learned a lot of things and there are so many there. It's just there's so much out there, and I don't know how anybody can remember all of that. And e. I mean, you look at the different layers of I'm safety and I've spent the majority of my safety and construction. So there was a lot of things that I was studying for through the SP process that I had no idea even was out there. That was some things. That's even a thing. Um, so you know, the programs that I used to study by just the knowledge that I gained from that and just even the idea of, you know, understanding. And I don't I know that I'm not gonna know what, Everything about some topics and some things. But that's okay. Because at least you know, there's something there. And like Linda says, you know, you use that phone a friend and say Hey, because everybody has their own little niche. Yeah. You know, you have this network of safety professionals you could reach out to that, you know, says, Hey, give me the low down on this. But I learned I learned a lot through that process, just taking the time to study and, you know, just dive a little bit deeper into the different topics and stuff. Going a little bit deeper here. Linda, would you say you have a preference for general industry construction? Maritime? Is there something that you really are passionate about?
[00:17:31] spk_1: Oh, man, constructions.
[00:17:32] spk_0: What about you, Betty? Yeah, Me too. Construction as a follow up to that. Led to what's your sign? Scorpio. Scorpio. Betty butchers. German. I Okay, So there's nothing wrong with being bipolar. I ask that because one of the questions that was brought Azadeh. Is this saying What's yours? Alan? What's your thought? Were the most useless out of all of them, right, So
[00:17:58] spk_1: Oh, man. Yeah. Pig head in. What? Go ahead and yeah, Yeah, that baldheaded bold headed.
[00:18:09] spk_0: No, they're absolutely right. No, there was actually a question. It was brought up by another group, and it was just a Segway. They were saying, Hey, what's everybody signed? And they were looking for the most predominant sign. I don't know where it came from, but they were asking about everybody's Myers Briggs personality. And, like, I'm in I in T. J. And it sounds odd because allegedly I'm an introvert, except I guess on this, uh, but they were asking about what the most calm common horoscope was for the safety industry. And I didn't see it out there, but they said, Oh, Leo's were the best. You know, we're the ones more driven. Yeah, it's a It was a strange questions. So, on a serious note, what would be your favorite meal, Linda? Would it be Popeye's? Would it be? This is just getting to know more about safety people and what they actually like. What is your go to food, Linda
[00:19:09] spk_1: man, Junk food. But I'm gonna tell you a story because I like to tell the stories. I was your former military, right? Yes. Okay, So you're gonna get this way. Were very economically disadvantaged when we were kids. But we did. Okay. And when it was our birthday, we got to pick the meal way. Most liked mine with shit on a shingle.
[00:19:35] spk_0: You're kidding me. Every on toast.
[00:19:37] spk_1: Every November 4th, we had shit on a shingle, chipped beef on toast, creamed chipped beef on toast.
[00:19:45] spk_0: It's like times in the Army.
[00:19:47] spk_1: Oh, my God. And I loved it. I loved it. But so so now. I mean, my wife is a pretty good cook, so I eat anything she cooks. Okay, So go to food is something that's good for me that I don't have toe lift a
[00:20:02] spk_0: finger. And Betty, what would you say is your go to meal? What is something? And don't give me any of this Keto crap. I mean, what do you actually like anything Mexican? Probably. It seems like when we go out to eat, it's what we always end up with Mexican. Okay. Do you like a spicy variety? Just like regular Mexican, like carne asada. Do you want tacos? El Pastora? What do you like?
[00:20:30] spk_1: I usually do.
[00:20:32] spk_0: Like last night we had last night. We had Mexican and I had, like, the taco salad. I knew he was gonna get some kind of damn diet thing in.
[00:20:40] spk_1: There is nothing diet shot, bullshit lettuce thing in there or something. Yeah, this has
[00:20:47] spk_0: rice and beans and steak and green peppers.
[00:20:51] spk_1: It's almost like this one
[00:20:53] spk_0: was like a fajita in a bowl. But I had the rice in, and they give you, like, the cheese dip that
[00:20:57] spk_1: you pour on top. Well, we have. We have. Ah, we don't have a chipotle here we have. I don't love me. Oh,
[00:21:06] spk_0: well, we don't have to polling. Well, that's something we need to know, but well, maybe they'll
[00:21:12] spk_1: franchise franchise instead of safety. You should go into franchises, and Chipotle should be your
[00:21:18] spk_0: I agree. I'm not gonna disagree with that. So somebody told me that
[00:21:23] spk_1: Wait a minute. Somebody told me on, like, chipotle that they don't even have anything chipotle on the menu. So why is it
[00:21:29] spk_0: chipotle I don't know. And I heard McDonald's used to own them. Come on. Yeah, I guess McDonald's was gonna open a variety of health food, but chipotle e actually pushed out on actually bought themselves back out at one time. I'm actually looking that up. Yeah,
[00:21:48] spk_1: poll was actually a
[00:21:49] spk_0: McDonald's. All right. 1998. They helped it grow from 14 locations. So back in the day, uh, McDonald's bottom in 1998
[00:21:59] spk_2: helped
[00:22:00] spk_0: to grow from 14 locations to nearly 500 within seven years. Uh, by 2000 and five, McDonald's had a 90% stake in Tripoli's business. But one year later, McDonald's divested its stake and parted ways with the fledgling burrito chain. Mhm. So I found that on Google, it's gotta be true.
[00:22:20] spk_1: So I'm like, he read that. So it must be true.
[00:22:23] spk_0: Yeah, absolutely. So they wanted their own health food variety. Speaking of Healthy Linda way, talk a lot about safety. Everybody's gonna ask you What's this? What's that? What do you think is one thing, uh, you know, in the safety profession that really needs to be addressed. A lot of people are saying fall protection. Other people are saying You know, better training, hazard communication. Is there anything that you've seen where you think that really mawr emphasis needs to be placed on
[00:22:53] spk_1: in the training room or just in general
[00:22:56] spk_0: in general. Do you think there's something that we're lacking and believe it or not? Yesterday at a conversation and all but one person said, Ergonomics,
[00:23:05] spk_1: if you're asking like training wise, I would I would say fall protection, right? And I think we need to dio Ah, better job now that we're remote and whatnot in ways toe conveniently train or train. Well, since we have social distancing and all that other kind of stuff going on, um, in remote job sites and etcetera. But I'm a big fan of soft skills, and I think that's something that you can't learn in school. And I think I think Oh, my gosh, there are so many safety professionals that need to learn how toe be in this world.
[00:23:48] spk_0: Well, I appreciate that, Betty, what about you? What's your view? What do you think? It's something that more people need to be trained on. If you have a view on that, you complete the fifth. We don't mind well, I would kind of agree with the fall protection just because we still have so many fatalities in that area. Um, so obviously there's something going on there. But if you're talking about as Faras like the safety professional, I'd have to agree with the soft skills because there's I've been around so many safety people that just don't know how to communicate with people. They're they're full of knowledge, but they just they just can't carry on that conversation and talk to people like they have a great message. They just know how to get it out there. Okay, so Linda going with you first on this next question. You know, there is quite a few people that are saying that, you know, within both industries, and there's actually more than one, and I understand that. But with construction general industry that one of the biggest problems is getting management buying, do you think it's because when it relates to safety and this, you know, this is just a personal opinion? Do you think that most management just do not see a return on investment through the safety personnel, that they know that there's issues, But you know they just don't see any real added value on that,
[00:25:11] spk_1: You're gonna start hearing me say this again and again and again. It depends, right? I think there are some companies that don't see the return on the investment. And I think that that can be partially due to the safety professional not being able to articulate what the value proposition is. I think there are some employers that just don't care. Communicating with management is a new point. I mean, I think I think it just it just really depends, right? I mean, you can't communicate value if there's no chance for whatever to be part of their value system to begin with, right?
[00:25:46] spk_0: Right. Well, that makes sense. You know, one of the biggest issues right now, we all know what Kobe 19 is. A lot of people are being displaced, and one of the trends that we've been seeing way hope not to see it too much. Is the first person going out the door his administration or administrative support. And second being some of the safeties. Uh, the downside to this is that the company's air believing that their supervisors foremen with 10 and 30 our cards to do the same, if not a better job until their EMR rates go up on. Do we know that's going over a three year period? But with this whole covert issue, do you think they buy them, cutting out the administrative and the safety positions that supervisors and Foreman, you know? And I just want your gut reaction on this. They could perform the same level of safety, especially being tied up, maybe looking at P and I. D. S or dealing with engineers and trying to get materials.
[00:26:49] spk_1: Come on, Alan. It depends, right? I mean, it depends on the person. It depends on how what their background is, how long they've been in the field, what they know, what their training is in safety. I think it's e think it's Ah yeah, I mean, I think it's a shame. I see so many people in Lengthen that don't have jobs and they were the first people out the door and I think in the next year or two we are going to see that the fatalities ever risen in the injuries have risen and you know, they think overall, Yeah, I think this is it's really short sighted.
[00:27:27] spk_0: I'm glad to hear your view on it. A lot of people, both management Wiese's. Well, you know, some of the groups I'm in, the managers air, concerned about losses, safety. They think that the accountants, while they're looking at and say yes, you know, they don't produce any goods. They don't assemble any parts of this building on the construction side. You know, they're looking at cost savings instead of, you know. Okay, So what's it gonna cost? This is someone. Get through it. So there's a lot of views on this, um, Betty, with your side in construction. So far, have you seen on the project you're currently on? Have they downsized, or have you heard of downsizing on construction safety as a cost savings? No, we haven't, Uh, the current company. I mean, we haven't lost any safety people. And the site that I'm on, we've had a few safety people leave from other contractors, but they've left on their own, but we haven't. We haven't downsized it all, but I mean, I see that on linked in all the time to just kind of, like, blends in with our show. Yeah, they drugged up they get my damn box. I'm going to the gate. That's it. There When I first got in into onto that project now, even well, so where I came from, we had little construction, little general industries that going on. But when I first went to, like, on the road construction like industrial project, everybody kept all about dragging up. What the hell? Why don't we drag in? Like I'm so confused? I didn't wanna ask, you know, I don't want excuses. And then it was like, Yeah, they don't know. And then it's get my box. So I tell him all the time. Now you know it Z kind of joking. Of course I'm safety. I don't have a damn box, but I want to just get my damn box. You need to get a book. Take me to the gate. Neo Pretty funny. Just like stuff in there. Put your squint, Cher's and all your
[00:29:20] spk_1: I'm gonna get my damn purse.
[00:29:22] spk_0: That's it. Oh, yeah, Yeah. E,
[00:29:26] spk_1: get my lunchbox.
[00:29:27] spk_0: Dammit! Is that a Michael Kors? Oh, my God. I didn't know he made boxes. Of course you can't eso Gerald was here to add his side. So you know, if you look at all the different types of training different types of designations, is there one y'all are seeing out in the field more so than others outside of CSP. And the reason I'm asking, uh, I was surprised. I was in basically two groups last night. And I know you know that Linda knows, Sheldon, but have you all heard anything about costs Coss? I didn't even know that existed until they started talking about that in some of those safety groups. Yeah, I'm just You heard of it? Ah, lot of people outside Louisiana, Texas and the chemical plants down there have never heard of it. And I was just wondering because everybody everybody knows G S p A s p C S p ah. Lot of them have never heard of, you know, the CSM and other designations through the n a S P in Wilmington, North Carolina. But I didn't know if you guys have heard a cost or C o S m or, you know, is there some other odds designation that you may have heard of over the years that you just don't see anymore?
[00:30:45] spk_1: So there are approximately 350 safety credentials, designations, etcetera out there to choose from and and always use a little that come on, 320 of them. Don't. Don't you pick on me now, Not including CCR cert's. Yeah, I actually do have rigor, signal person, trainer and all that kind of stuff, too. But I'm
[00:31:13] spk_0: adding that to your resume.
[00:31:14] spk_1: No, please don't. The only reason I know that is because I think it was dropped once in a board meeting, 350 of them out there. And I think part of it is marketing. I think part of it is connections to other organizations, uh, that make certain credentials critical, more valuable than others. You know, Again, I I think it just depends. I think your mix of experience, education or certification is really kind of a personal thing.
[00:31:46] spk_0: I'm glad you said that
[00:31:48] spk_1: there's a There's an issue, though, that that happens when somebody says you have to have this certain mix in order to play the game. And I think maybe that's where Sheldon comes from. Sometimes is like, you know, to be a professional member of SSP. You have tow, have this, or in order to qualify for this. Taking this test, you have to have this and well, they have to have those criteria. If they're big enough, it pushes people out of the game and sometimes good professionals out of the game.
[00:32:21] spk_0: Oh, yeah,
[00:32:21] spk_1: and I would hate for that to happen.
[00:32:23] spk_0: I'm glad you said that because there was a confrontation. There's actually some action going on right now where they're trying to work with recruiters. Thio Better training, you know, it's CSP is not who you need on a whole watch. Uh, you know, it costs is a good level because they get their OSHA 10 and general industry and stuff. And and that's one thing is a, you know, educating the end user as well as yeah, that designation has, ah, high value, you know, it's not It's not Somebody want just issuing out, You know, uh, GFC ice and stuff. And I'm glad you said that. Speaking of going into safety and all this, like, I'm curious, You know, you worked in public safety, law enforcement. So, you know, going from that my own background as well I never thought I'd be a safety person. I never thought I'd looked this good in a little white, but
[00:33:18] spk_1: what's the shine off your head?
[00:33:20] spk_0: Oh, no. I'm wearing a nice little what do they call a Yamaka right now? It's not really because it's a dish. Defend anybody, but you
[00:33:34] spk_1: look great with additional.
[00:33:35] spk_0: Tell us about your time in law enforcement. What prompted Dr Martin to go into law enforcement and be a total badass
[00:33:43] spk_1: eso I want? You're
[00:33:45] spk_0: not a total badass now, but,
[00:33:46] spk_1: well, I was always a badass in a different respect. So I have been consulting, had my own business, done a bunch of different things, and I was bored. And so I thought of a career change and my brother is in the police force. He's actually in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
[00:34:06] spk_0: That's a tough area, right? E could
[00:34:08] spk_1: do this. I can get in shape, Jake now, but get in shape. And I went for it. And I love the job. Absolutely loved the job because e like talking to people. And I like helping people. And it was it was a great career. Andi, I think if you listen to Jay Allen show, you know that I dropped out of the academy by telling the head of the card where they will fuck himself so
[00:34:31] spk_0: very unique way Thio get dropped from right? I
[00:34:36] spk_1: e think if I was in the military, they probably would discipline me, and I'd stay in. But
[00:34:41] spk_0: don't talk about spankings with
[00:34:43] spk_1: Okay, Well, we'll take the spanking thing off line, buddy.
[00:34:49] spk_0: Okay, that sounds good. No, she's into corporal punishment. She has safety offenders, Not her
[00:34:57] spk_1: safety offenders or kids. Safety offend both. Okay. I feel like a lot of people would be getting in trouble if they were told they were gonna get spanked.
[00:35:07] spk_0: I agree. Every day it's one something I have to deal with.
[00:35:12] spk_1: Like I said, e did that for a while and probably would have stayed in it had I made it through the academy e have a lot of experience in the shooting arts. That's not just And that's not to say that's not to say that I would shoot at all is a police officer. But, you know, I was pretty much into that because that's kind of why I got hired. I think because I had the gun training and the lethal force training and all that kind of stuff going into the police academy. So, you know, I wasn't one of those people. That was like, I'm gonna pull out my gun right now, Right? There was some thought behind it because you really have to be responsible in that situation.
[00:35:55] spk_0: No, I completely understand. Well, you know, we're getting ready to close out on this interview. What questions do you have for us? There's so much more we'd like. We'd like to bring you back. Unfortunately, the technical difficulties we had and losers Jr on the side, What questions might you have for any of us? With the exception of Jar, we'll have to try.
[00:36:20] spk_1: With the exception of J. R. Because you won't talk back, you might be the perfect subject to ask questions. Yeah. Hey, because he got scolded earlier. E m o. I'll see, s So I have to ask you a question. You don't tell me this part of the
[00:36:37] spk_0: show. You don't have to dock you completely. That's one of the things we allowed is you plead the fifth and then we'll berate you until you do it. I mean a nice way, but do you have any questions? Do you? You know,
[00:36:49] spk_1: I feel put on the spot. I love doing these podcasts, I think thes thes air fun. And I really like the fact that you asked some kind of off the wall questions. And I got to share that. I love shit on a shingle that I'm Scorpio
[00:37:05] spk_0: e LinkedIn doesn't know that kind of stuff.
[00:37:09] spk_1: They know my birthday now to like,
[00:37:11] spk_0: Well, kind of
[00:37:12] spk_1: everything. Something. Four
[00:37:13] spk_0: sons of Scorpio. My step sons of Scorpio. I'm surrounded by a freaking crustaceans. It's not really crustacean, but it's a good thing Scorpios Air. Extremely passionate people. Sort of Geminis, both sides of their personality. Kind of deadly, too. So again, I said they're deadly Thio. You don't know which part of their crazy ass is coming
[00:37:37] spk_1: in which hands
[00:37:39] spk_0: now and exactly about Gemini is very artistic. You know what artistic? Most Geminis have some type of artistic quality. What's your art form? Betty? What do you dio Betty, uh, riding horses escaped me. The artistic part escaped me.
[00:38:00] spk_1: Are you crafty? Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I guess I could be a little crafty. You got grand, baby, so I mean, you have to be able to craft something.
[00:38:08] spk_0: Yeah, Show me like a candle. That is amazing. Cow pie. Candle. What? It's actually it's not really using an actual cow pie. They mix like cocoa and stuff like that with carafes in. But when it runs down, it's like, man damn that That really looks like a real cow pie. It was just something I found interesting on Pinterest when I was looking for Thanks for my hair change up my style. Don't judge me,
[00:38:34] spk_1: E Oh, my goodness. I bet I bet
[00:38:38] spk_0: the ads on that pops up on your like, the wish, and I hate when you google certain e crazy wish people fussing about it. What is wish? It's like a an app or something you could buy. Raise the off the wall shit from any, Like ships from china. I'm gonna get you might get it. You might know lunch. Okay? Yeah.
[00:38:59] spk_1: What do you mean you might get you might get what you bought, or you might get the app. Er well, it looks really great on the photo that you like. Oh, this is really cool. I think I wanna buy that. It's only
[00:39:10] spk_0: a dollar, and it looks like this gigantic something and you get it And it's like an inch big e happens when e yeah. Oh,
[00:39:19] spk_1: my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I just I just have to share that e share. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I was taking karate lessons last year in one of one of the guys that I took karate. What came in? And he goes, Oh, my God, I just got ah, full Iron Man costume and it does all these things, you know, things pop out. Looks just like what Robert Downey Jr wears. And that was exactly what happened. E e. I hope he doesn't listen to show, but it was, like, $2.99. So it was coming from China, and he was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna do kid's parties, and I'm gonna dio e was like, dying came. It was like a It was like an inch inch tall plastic shop. Kins years.
[00:40:15] spk_0: That's hot. I'm so happy. That's awesome. Well, we got conclude this interview, Linda, We would love to get you back sometime. There was just so much stuff, but with all of our normal technical issues with dragging up six point way really out did ourselves. We lost Jr in the set up. Um oh, man, we're trying some new stuff, But any last words? Any type of you know, motivational information you wanna put out to those that want to achieve board that want to get to your level and have a serious impact on safety from outside the field deserve if there's anything you tell us, Yeah, he's here.
[00:40:59] spk_1: I mean, you know, I try to I try to put it out there all the time on LinkedIn. Yes, you dio. And you know, the one thing that I can say is, if you want to do it, you could do it right and don't want it put you off that it might take a year or two years or three years or what? 20 right? Here's Here's the thing. You're gonna get older, no matter what. Okay, so you might as well be doing something with your time. And if you you know, even if you could do one class at a time or one training at a time or connect with one person at a time, it can be done. And there is somebody out there that will connect with you and will help you write and number one, I do it for us. Many people as I could do it for I know, Alan, that you're pretty giving human, despite your faults and, you know, you get back. And And, Betty, I believe in you that you could give back, and there are tons of people that are out there that can that can help you achieve your goals. And the more the merrier and safety, the more the merrier.
[00:41:58] spk_0: Well, thank you for your time. Thank you for your insights. And thank you for sharing personal stuff that normally wouldn't be brought up. Thank you very much for
[00:42:07] spk_1: I'm not going to get sued, am I?
[00:42:09] spk_0: No, no, no, no. Please just weren't khakis. Nobody said anything about
[00:42:13] spk_1: got this fear of getting sued.
[00:42:15] spk_0: Okay. Well, Betty, do you plan sooner? No. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you, Linda. Appreciate it, Betty. Thank you very much. Oh, we're glad you could make it without coming in on two wheels. And J r. When you listen to this way. Missed you. You could added so much to this and get me out of trouble.
[00:42:37] spk_1: Keep us on the trouble, please.
[00:42:39] spk_0: All right, Thank you. Thank you. This'll visited in this show is brought to you by Safety FM.
[00:42:52] spk_2: The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. It should not be utilized in the real world as the only solution available as they are based only on very limited and dated open source information. Assumptions made within this analysis are not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast, maybe reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical Elektronik, recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast, Jay Allen.
[00:00:01] spk_0: you know, this'll visited. This show is brought to you by safety FM ableto lead roles of caution tape in a single bound stronger than a wet paper towel her nearer than a cow pie in the desert sun on coming to you from East Tennessee. It's Alan. The safety guy put on them safety glasses. Where's your heart tone shoes? I say I say you want a heap of trouble, boy. Now here is the podcast you've been waiting for. Hi, I'm Jared Kitchens. And this is L. Wolfert. This is Baby Stout. And we welcome you all to this podcast of dragging up 60 behind the mic with Dr Linda F. Martin Ph. D. So we've got Dr Martin with us. This is our very first show under the under the safety FM. Uh, family of shows for variety of things, but this is our very first show under the safety FM family. We've asked Dr Linda to come on because he is probably one of the most amazing in the safety industry that I've got Thio interact with linked in. I don't know her personally yet, but by the end of the podcast, I'm sure either there will be a restraining order or an adoption notice. So, getting into this Linda, we have a great question for you. How sure. How did you become a doctor? And what specific field are you? A doctor
[00:01:36] spk_1: s. Oh, I've actually only been a doctor for six months, actually, a little longer than six months. I finished up my dissertation on New Year's Eve of last year. So I was a doctor in 2019 but really mostly a doctor in 2020. And my doctor, it's an occupational health and safety.
[00:01:55] spk_0: And what led up to that? What do you do prior to being a doctor? Was your working in the field or where you working in another aspect of safety? And then you felt going into the doctor program would benefit safety profession.
[00:02:09] spk_1: I got into featuring back in 2014. Somebody on the board of directors that I sat on was a teaching in the bachelor's and master's area, and I got interested in that, and that's kind of one of the reasons that I got the doctorate. But before that it was a kind of a Jane of all trades master of absolutely nothing still master of absolutely nothing but in my in my working life, I've been a geologist. I've been a project manager for environmental project. I've owned my own business, is a consultant in safety. I've worked for environmental remediation firm that built through mediation systems all over the world. One of the most notable projects was in Danang, Vietnam treating Agent Orange. Oh, yeah. And well, it was a crane safety director, And I've also done a bunch of other things. I've been a police officer in Maine, and I also I worked on an organic be farmed
[00:03:19] spk_0: organic beef,
[00:03:21] spk_1: organic beef. It was basically was organic. Everything but the main product was beef.
[00:03:27] spk_0: Okay, well, Betty, now I know you just got your S p and with you helping with the hosting of shows, uh, what are your thoughts? Are you thinking about moving up and hopefully getting a PhD or you looking at, uh, staying into some of the B. C S P principles of moving up CSP. What about you on the educational side? And is there any question you have for Linda about achieving that level of education? Well, I feel like I still left part of my soul back there with that testing booth for the S P s. I haven't I haven't I
[00:04:00] spk_1: haven't fully recuperated from that.
[00:04:01] spk_0: So I think probably my next steps right now is just to push on to the CSP and then maybe look at something from their kinda actually started looking at some master's programs and, like safety engineering, I really I'm at a place that kind of my career that I'm not really sure exactly where I wanna go until, like, maybe the safety engineering, I've kind of looked at the consulting stuff and maybe going into and getting like, the A r M or or whatever some of those certifications are. I just don't really know. There's so many places I think you could go from here. I'm just trying to feel it out, really.
[00:04:42] spk_1: Take your time. And when When it's right, it'll appear.
[00:04:46] spk_0: So Doc happens good with her, given that out. You know, uh, prior to you getting the PH. D. Did you go through a series of certifications in order to obtain, you know, like a safety designation prior to this? Or is this something you just did incrementally through the education system.
[00:05:05] spk_1: Oh, man. You know, I'm kind of a lifelong learner. And so when I was doing project Management, I got an MBA. When I was a consultant and I was doing more safety practice and more safety consulting. I got a master's in safety, and then when I decided I was going to teach e really kind of wanted to teach at the Masters level in order to teach at the Masters level, you have to kind of go to the PhD. And so I just kept going, and I actually just applied and got accepted to the cyber security and critical infrastructure and construction program at Capital Tech. So I'm doing that simultaneously with working there. Did I lose? You
[00:05:47] spk_0: know, No, I just didn't know if you're gonna have a little bit of follow up on that. So, you know, one of the things we've got, a syriza shows coming up, and a lot of it's going to be about training and one of things Betty and myself and others have seen, uh, you know, there there's a current trend out there, especially with recruitment. You know where they're looking for C. S. P s for $15 an hour. Uh, they're looking for personals with certain, and it's not just the B. C S P designation. It's N e S p and N C c er. If he was to tell a young woman or a young man going into the trades, what do you feel a Z a doctorate in safety, do you think, or do you have any opinion on what would be the best thing for them to start learning about safety? There's been a lot of commentary today on one of the safety side. Tell Facebook that people should start out with, like the OSHA 10 OSHA 30 then 5 10 500. Do you think that that's good? Or, you know, do you think that there's another way to go about becoming a good safety professional?
[00:06:55] spk_1: I think there's a way for every single person out there I no longer buy into the whole This is the track you have to take right the bachelor's degree and then the A S P than the CSP and a masters. PhD, whatever. I think there are as many pathways as people who want to be in our profession. So you know, when you talk about the trades, right? I think some of the best safety people come from the trades right, because because they learnt their trade and they learn how to do do the tasks and the risk involved in the tasks. And then when they get a bug for safety, they probably one of the best teachers and convince er's in the field that we could get. Does that answer your question? Now
[00:07:44] spk_0: It does. It does. It just seems to be a lot of issues right now, especially with Kobe. People are saying, Well, I can't get into this class, you know, because they're wanting to do it online and I guess there's a variety of issues and things like that. But there's a lot of young men and women out in the industry wanted to build up. But people have a variety. They're saying Hey, get your college degree, then get into the trades. Others they're saying trades first, you know, Then get your basic OSHA. So I just want some of the inside on what you thought might help somebody in today's, you know, safety profession and building up.
[00:08:20] spk_1: So I'll use that as a segue. My sister's 54 years old, and she has a G D high school diploma. Maybe. Maybe it's a high school diploma, and she's just getting started in safety right now. And so one of the things that I've coached her on is the 30 hour. Possibly getting the 40 hour OSHA has Walker and then trying Thio get like either an internship or an entry level job in the field while she gets her degree and, you know, and again, that's not the path for everybody. But, you know, when you talk about getting started and learning the actual basics, 10 and 30 hour courses are a great place to start.
[00:09:04] spk_0: So, Betty, when you started up, what was one of the first things you did to prepare for safety? Aziz, being a career choice, actually started with my bachelor's degree in safety, so just kind of went from there. It took me about 20 years to do it, but I got it finished. Yeah, so with that bachelor's, uh, do you think that that gave you some good insight? Or do you think that there would have been another way that you would have approaches? Well, I did. I did the Columbia Southern, and I graduated from that in 2016 e. I don't want to say anything bad about their program because I know that they have revamp the curriculum and stuff so they would meet like the criteria for the GSP. So when I'm thinnest, it did not meet that criteria. And I feel like, honestly that it was way easy and I thought it was either. I'm like super super smart, which, you know I could be. But this'll is like, super easy. A lot of just It was easy and I kind of felt like and I had no other At the time. There wasn't when I first started. Columbia Southern was the only one offering safety degree online. Now you could go Teoh a lot of different universities and get it, But that was my only option. I worked full time. Even the local colleges didn't offer those courses at night like in the adult top education. So that was the only place I could go. And I know I've seen some their curriculum since I finished and it has gotten a lot better. But, you know, I kind of honestly kind of felt like I was short changed a little bit, I guess, on the education part of it, I wish it had been a little harder and a little more challenging. What made you think it was a challenging enough? And then this is gonna lead into something else that will go to Linda. Well, the way that they had the classes set up, almost every class was set up the same. So each class had, like, say, 10 modules or 10 assignments. Within those 10 assignments, they had maybe 1 to 10 multiple choice answers or questions and answers and maybe, like two short essay questions, like 200 to 500 word essay questions. And then the final exam was like a 507 100 word essay so you could high. So I'll give you credit just for knowing that what I mean, but that the you could pass and not even crack open the textbook. Okay, it was that easy. Well, Linda is you're experiencing, you know, being a doctorate and probably working, you know, a lot with certifying bodies. Um, do you feel that sometimes the educational standards for any trade, whether it be safety or anything, are heavily influenced because right now you know, they say the No Child Left Behind Act is still, I guess, in part it's still in effect because there are people with a variety of learning disorders or learning disabilities. Do you think the safety program in itself for certifying bodies? Do you think that there could be improvements? Do you think possibly and and just personal, not as a professional, however you wanna do it personally? Do you feel that sometimes that there's just you and I bring this up because after what bet? He said, I want to say 12 or 13 people have spoke to earlier in the month said that, you know, as a safety guy out in the field, they didn't need to know how to adjust for NMR. They didn't need to know certain rates. Do you think for ah, lot of the safety matters a lot of safety director's air up and coming? Do you think that safety training should be more challenging or do you think it should be more involved?
[00:12:53] spk_1: So you're gonna get me in trouble? I'm not gonna talk about certifying body. No, I'm just But I will say I will say this. I think I'm gonna go back to my same answer. I gave you a little bit earlier and say what you need to know really depends on what you're doing, right? You know, one safety guy or gal might need to know this suite of things, but somebody else working in a different company that's smaller or larger may need to know something different. And so, you know, I think what the safety profession has tried to do is tow level the playing field by, um, saying you know, everybody should have everybody. Bachelor's degree is a base, right? And then that's that makes you a professional, right? And then certain certification should follow on after that. But I'm not really sure that that's the path for everybody. And I and I really don't think that everybody's knowledge base needs to be the same. You know, I go back Thio when I talk about people who know a lot. I've worked in construction with some safety people, safety managers that can run circles around me and who I call when I need a phone, a friend, and they neither have certifications or degrees. Okay, um so I guess It just depends, Alan. I mean, it depends on who you are, where you are, what your background is, where you're gonna go with things. You know, I'm a big believer and follow your path.
[00:14:29] spk_0: I noticed one of the things I e was thinking about this prior to the interview when I was struck, talking to a lot of the construction guys back from my construction days. A lot of them wanted field safety not their managers, but field safety to come from the trades specifically because they knew the hazards of the environment. They knew welders and gasses and all the things associated with that. But they wanted their managers. I have a higher level of training so that they could, you know, do the documentation set him up for success through the management programs.
[00:15:04] spk_1: That may be true is you work your way up that we need more education or more broader knowledge base. But I think what we've done with pushing everybody needs a degree is we've made these safety professionals who actually have no practical experience in anything, right? And they come out and they work for four years, and then they get a CSP and then they sit in an office or they try to dictate what a program is going to be like when they actually haven't really implemented the craft. If that makes sense,
[00:15:39] spk_0: no, it does. It does eso with you moving up and have him went up through the layers as an SP Uh, currently, when you've been taking this additional training, have you felt that this additional training I'm just asking this because, you know, to go from one level to another, I know you have tohave much more information. Has it benefited you for the current position or just in safety overall, both really good. I have learned a lot of things and there are so many there. It's just there's so much out there, and I don't know how anybody can remember all of that. And e. I mean, you look at the different layers of I'm safety and I've spent the majority of my safety and construction. So there was a lot of things that I was studying for through the SP process that I had no idea even was out there. That was some things. That's even a thing. Um, so you know, the programs that I used to study by just the knowledge that I gained from that and just even the idea of, you know, understanding. And I don't I know that I'm not gonna know what, Everything about some topics and some things. But that's okay. Because at least you know, there's something there. And like Linda says, you know, you use that phone a friend and say Hey, because everybody has their own little niche. Yeah. You know, you have this network of safety professionals you could reach out to that, you know, says, Hey, give me the low down on this. But I learned I learned a lot through that process, just taking the time to study and, you know, just dive a little bit deeper into the different topics and stuff. Going a little bit deeper here. Linda, would you say you have a preference for general industry construction? Maritime? Is there something that you really are passionate about?
[00:17:31] spk_1: Oh, man, constructions.
[00:17:32] spk_0: What about you, Betty? Yeah, Me too. Construction as a follow up to that. Led to what's your sign? Scorpio. Scorpio. Betty butchers. German. I Okay, So there's nothing wrong with being bipolar. I ask that because one of the questions that was brought Azadeh. Is this saying What's yours? Alan? What's your thought? Were the most useless out of all of them, right, So
[00:17:58] spk_1: Oh, man. Yeah. Pig head in. What? Go ahead and yeah, Yeah, that baldheaded bold headed.
[00:18:09] spk_0: No, they're absolutely right. No, there was actually a question. It was brought up by another group, and it was just a Segway. They were saying, Hey, what's everybody signed? And they were looking for the most predominant sign. I don't know where it came from, but they were asking about everybody's Myers Briggs personality. And, like, I'm in I in T. J. And it sounds odd because allegedly I'm an introvert, except I guess on this, uh, but they were asking about what the most calm common horoscope was for the safety industry. And I didn't see it out there, but they said, Oh, Leo's were the best. You know, we're the ones more driven. Yeah, it's a It was a strange questions. So, on a serious note, what would be your favorite meal, Linda? Would it be Popeye's? Would it be? This is just getting to know more about safety people and what they actually like. What is your go to food, Linda
[00:19:09] spk_1: man, Junk food. But I'm gonna tell you a story because I like to tell the stories. I was your former military, right? Yes. Okay, So you're gonna get this way. Were very economically disadvantaged when we were kids. But we did. Okay. And when it was our birthday, we got to pick the meal way. Most liked mine with shit on a shingle.
[00:19:35] spk_0: You're kidding me. Every on toast.
[00:19:37] spk_1: Every November 4th, we had shit on a shingle, chipped beef on toast, creamed chipped beef on toast.
[00:19:45] spk_0: It's like times in the Army.
[00:19:47] spk_1: Oh, my God. And I loved it. I loved it. But so so now. I mean, my wife is a pretty good cook, so I eat anything she cooks. Okay, So go to food is something that's good for me that I don't have toe lift a
[00:20:02] spk_0: finger. And Betty, what would you say is your go to meal? What is something? And don't give me any of this Keto crap. I mean, what do you actually like anything Mexican? Probably. It seems like when we go out to eat, it's what we always end up with Mexican. Okay. Do you like a spicy variety? Just like regular Mexican, like carne asada. Do you want tacos? El Pastora? What do you like?
[00:20:30] spk_1: I usually do.
[00:20:32] spk_0: Like last night we had last night. We had Mexican and I had, like, the taco salad. I knew he was gonna get some kind of damn diet thing in.
[00:20:40] spk_1: There is nothing diet shot, bullshit lettuce thing in there or something. Yeah, this has
[00:20:47] spk_0: rice and beans and steak and green peppers.
[00:20:51] spk_1: It's almost like this one
[00:20:53] spk_0: was like a fajita in a bowl. But I had the rice in, and they give you, like, the cheese dip that
[00:20:57] spk_1: you pour on top. Well, we have. We have. Ah, we don't have a chipotle here we have. I don't love me. Oh,
[00:21:06] spk_0: well, we don't have to polling. Well, that's something we need to know, but well, maybe they'll
[00:21:12] spk_1: franchise franchise instead of safety. You should go into franchises, and Chipotle should be your
[00:21:18] spk_0: I agree. I'm not gonna disagree with that. So somebody told me that
[00:21:23] spk_1: Wait a minute. Somebody told me on, like, chipotle that they don't even have anything chipotle on the menu. So why is it
[00:21:29] spk_0: chipotle I don't know. And I heard McDonald's used to own them. Come on. Yeah, I guess McDonald's was gonna open a variety of health food, but chipotle e actually pushed out on actually bought themselves back out at one time. I'm actually looking that up. Yeah,
[00:21:48] spk_1: poll was actually a
[00:21:49] spk_0: McDonald's. All right. 1998. They helped it grow from 14 locations. So back in the day, uh, McDonald's bottom in 1998
[00:21:59] spk_2: helped
[00:22:00] spk_0: to grow from 14 locations to nearly 500 within seven years. Uh, by 2000 and five, McDonald's had a 90% stake in Tripoli's business. But one year later, McDonald's divested its stake and parted ways with the fledgling burrito chain. Mhm. So I found that on Google, it's gotta be true.
[00:22:20] spk_1: So I'm like, he read that. So it must be true.
[00:22:23] spk_0: Yeah, absolutely. So they wanted their own health food variety. Speaking of Healthy Linda way, talk a lot about safety. Everybody's gonna ask you What's this? What's that? What do you think is one thing, uh, you know, in the safety profession that really needs to be addressed. A lot of people are saying fall protection. Other people are saying You know, better training, hazard communication. Is there anything that you've seen where you think that really mawr emphasis needs to be placed on
[00:22:53] spk_1: in the training room or just in general
[00:22:56] spk_0: in general. Do you think there's something that we're lacking and believe it or not? Yesterday at a conversation and all but one person said, Ergonomics,
[00:23:05] spk_1: if you're asking like training wise, I would I would say fall protection, right? And I think we need to dio Ah, better job now that we're remote and whatnot in ways toe conveniently train or train. Well, since we have social distancing and all that other kind of stuff going on, um, in remote job sites and etcetera. But I'm a big fan of soft skills, and I think that's something that you can't learn in school. And I think I think Oh, my gosh, there are so many safety professionals that need to learn how toe be in this world.
[00:23:48] spk_0: Well, I appreciate that, Betty, what about you? What's your view? What do you think? It's something that more people need to be trained on. If you have a view on that, you complete the fifth. We don't mind well, I would kind of agree with the fall protection just because we still have so many fatalities in that area. Um, so obviously there's something going on there. But if you're talking about as Faras like the safety professional, I'd have to agree with the soft skills because there's I've been around so many safety people that just don't know how to communicate with people. They're they're full of knowledge, but they just they just can't carry on that conversation and talk to people like they have a great message. They just know how to get it out there. Okay, so Linda going with you first on this next question. You know, there is quite a few people that are saying that, you know, within both industries, and there's actually more than one, and I understand that. But with construction general industry that one of the biggest problems is getting management buying, do you think it's because when it relates to safety and this, you know, this is just a personal opinion? Do you think that most management just do not see a return on investment through the safety personnel, that they know that there's issues, But you know they just don't see any real added value on that,
[00:25:11] spk_1: You're gonna start hearing me say this again and again and again. It depends, right? I think there are some companies that don't see the return on the investment. And I think that that can be partially due to the safety professional not being able to articulate what the value proposition is. I think there are some employers that just don't care. Communicating with management is a new point. I mean, I think I think it just it just really depends, right? I mean, you can't communicate value if there's no chance for whatever to be part of their value system to begin with, right?
[00:25:46] spk_0: Right. Well, that makes sense. You know, one of the biggest issues right now, we all know what Kobe 19 is. A lot of people are being displaced, and one of the trends that we've been seeing way hope not to see it too much. Is the first person going out the door his administration or administrative support. And second being some of the safeties. Uh, the downside to this is that the company's air believing that their supervisors foremen with 10 and 30 our cards to do the same, if not a better job until their EMR rates go up on. Do we know that's going over a three year period? But with this whole covert issue, do you think they buy them, cutting out the administrative and the safety positions that supervisors and Foreman, you know? And I just want your gut reaction on this. They could perform the same level of safety, especially being tied up, maybe looking at P and I. D. S or dealing with engineers and trying to get materials.
[00:26:49] spk_1: Come on, Alan. It depends, right? I mean, it depends on the person. It depends on how what their background is, how long they've been in the field, what they know, what their training is in safety. I think it's e think it's Ah yeah, I mean, I think it's a shame. I see so many people in Lengthen that don't have jobs and they were the first people out the door and I think in the next year or two we are going to see that the fatalities ever risen in the injuries have risen and you know, they think overall, Yeah, I think this is it's really short sighted.
[00:27:27] spk_0: I'm glad to hear your view on it. A lot of people, both management Wiese's. Well, you know, some of the groups I'm in, the managers air, concerned about losses, safety. They think that the accountants, while they're looking at and say yes, you know, they don't produce any goods. They don't assemble any parts of this building on the construction side. You know, they're looking at cost savings instead of, you know. Okay, So what's it gonna cost? This is someone. Get through it. So there's a lot of views on this, um, Betty, with your side in construction. So far, have you seen on the project you're currently on? Have they downsized, or have you heard of downsizing on construction safety as a cost savings? No, we haven't, Uh, the current company. I mean, we haven't lost any safety people. And the site that I'm on, we've had a few safety people leave from other contractors, but they've left on their own, but we haven't. We haven't downsized it all, but I mean, I see that on linked in all the time to just kind of, like, blends in with our show. Yeah, they drugged up they get my damn box. I'm going to the gate. That's it. There When I first got in into onto that project now, even well, so where I came from, we had little construction, little general industries that going on. But when I first went to, like, on the road construction like industrial project, everybody kept all about dragging up. What the hell? Why don't we drag in? Like I'm so confused? I didn't wanna ask, you know, I don't want excuses. And then it was like, Yeah, they don't know. And then it's get my box. So I tell him all the time. Now you know it Z kind of joking. Of course I'm safety. I don't have a damn box, but I want to just get my damn box. You need to get a book. Take me to the gate. Neo Pretty funny. Just like stuff in there. Put your squint, Cher's and all your
[00:29:20] spk_1: I'm gonna get my damn purse.
[00:29:22] spk_0: That's it. Oh, yeah, Yeah. E,
[00:29:26] spk_1: get my lunchbox.
[00:29:27] spk_0: Dammit! Is that a Michael Kors? Oh, my God. I didn't know he made boxes. Of course you can't eso Gerald was here to add his side. So you know, if you look at all the different types of training different types of designations, is there one y'all are seeing out in the field more so than others outside of CSP. And the reason I'm asking, uh, I was surprised. I was in basically two groups last night. And I know you know that Linda knows, Sheldon, but have you all heard anything about costs Coss? I didn't even know that existed until they started talking about that in some of those safety groups. Yeah, I'm just You heard of it? Ah, lot of people outside Louisiana, Texas and the chemical plants down there have never heard of it. And I was just wondering because everybody everybody knows G S p A s p C S p ah. Lot of them have never heard of, you know, the CSM and other designations through the n a S P in Wilmington, North Carolina. But I didn't know if you guys have heard a cost or C o S m or, you know, is there some other odds designation that you may have heard of over the years that you just don't see anymore?
[00:30:45] spk_1: So there are approximately 350 safety credentials, designations, etcetera out there to choose from and and always use a little that come on, 320 of them. Don't. Don't you pick on me now, Not including CCR cert's. Yeah, I actually do have rigor, signal person, trainer and all that kind of stuff, too. But I'm
[00:31:13] spk_0: adding that to your resume.
[00:31:14] spk_1: No, please don't. The only reason I know that is because I think it was dropped once in a board meeting, 350 of them out there. And I think part of it is marketing. I think part of it is connections to other organizations, uh, that make certain credentials critical, more valuable than others. You know, Again, I I think it just depends. I think your mix of experience, education or certification is really kind of a personal thing.
[00:31:46] spk_0: I'm glad you said that
[00:31:48] spk_1: there's a There's an issue, though, that that happens when somebody says you have to have this certain mix in order to play the game. And I think maybe that's where Sheldon comes from. Sometimes is like, you know, to be a professional member of SSP. You have tow, have this, or in order to qualify for this. Taking this test, you have to have this and well, they have to have those criteria. If they're big enough, it pushes people out of the game and sometimes good professionals out of the game.
[00:32:21] spk_0: Oh, yeah,
[00:32:21] spk_1: and I would hate for that to happen.
[00:32:23] spk_0: I'm glad you said that because there was a confrontation. There's actually some action going on right now where they're trying to work with recruiters. Thio Better training, you know, it's CSP is not who you need on a whole watch. Uh, you know, it costs is a good level because they get their OSHA 10 and general industry and stuff. And and that's one thing is a, you know, educating the end user as well as yeah, that designation has, ah, high value, you know, it's not It's not Somebody want just issuing out, You know, uh, GFC ice and stuff. And I'm glad you said that. Speaking of going into safety and all this, like, I'm curious, You know, you worked in public safety, law enforcement. So, you know, going from that my own background as well I never thought I'd be a safety person. I never thought I'd looked this good in a little white, but
[00:33:18] spk_1: what's the shine off your head?
[00:33:20] spk_0: Oh, no. I'm wearing a nice little what do they call a Yamaka right now? It's not really because it's a dish. Defend anybody, but you
[00:33:34] spk_1: look great with additional.
[00:33:35] spk_0: Tell us about your time in law enforcement. What prompted Dr Martin to go into law enforcement and be a total badass
[00:33:43] spk_1: eso I want? You're
[00:33:45] spk_0: not a total badass now, but,
[00:33:46] spk_1: well, I was always a badass in a different respect. So I have been consulting, had my own business, done a bunch of different things, and I was bored. And so I thought of a career change and my brother is in the police force. He's actually in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
[00:34:06] spk_0: That's a tough area, right? E could
[00:34:08] spk_1: do this. I can get in shape, Jake now, but get in shape. And I went for it. And I love the job. Absolutely loved the job because e like talking to people. And I like helping people. And it was it was a great career. Andi, I think if you listen to Jay Allen show, you know that I dropped out of the academy by telling the head of the card where they will fuck himself so
[00:34:31] spk_0: very unique way Thio get dropped from right? I
[00:34:36] spk_1: e think if I was in the military, they probably would discipline me, and I'd stay in. But
[00:34:41] spk_0: don't talk about spankings with
[00:34:43] spk_1: Okay, Well, we'll take the spanking thing off line, buddy.
[00:34:49] spk_0: Okay, that sounds good. No, she's into corporal punishment. She has safety offenders, Not her
[00:34:57] spk_1: safety offenders or kids. Safety offend both. Okay. I feel like a lot of people would be getting in trouble if they were told they were gonna get spanked.
[00:35:07] spk_0: I agree. Every day it's one something I have to deal with.
[00:35:12] spk_1: Like I said, e did that for a while and probably would have stayed in it had I made it through the academy e have a lot of experience in the shooting arts. That's not just And that's not to say that's not to say that I would shoot at all is a police officer. But, you know, I was pretty much into that because that's kind of why I got hired. I think because I had the gun training and the lethal force training and all that kind of stuff going into the police academy. So, you know, I wasn't one of those people. That was like, I'm gonna pull out my gun right now, Right? There was some thought behind it because you really have to be responsible in that situation.
[00:35:55] spk_0: No, I completely understand. Well, you know, we're getting ready to close out on this interview. What questions do you have for us? There's so much more we'd like. We'd like to bring you back. Unfortunately, the technical difficulties we had and losers Jr on the side, What questions might you have for any of us? With the exception of Jar, we'll have to try.
[00:36:20] spk_1: With the exception of J. R. Because you won't talk back, you might be the perfect subject to ask questions. Yeah. Hey, because he got scolded earlier. E m o. I'll see, s So I have to ask you a question. You don't tell me this part of the
[00:36:37] spk_0: show. You don't have to dock you completely. That's one of the things we allowed is you plead the fifth and then we'll berate you until you do it. I mean a nice way, but do you have any questions? Do you? You know,
[00:36:49] spk_1: I feel put on the spot. I love doing these podcasts, I think thes thes air fun. And I really like the fact that you asked some kind of off the wall questions. And I got to share that. I love shit on a shingle that I'm Scorpio
[00:37:05] spk_0: e LinkedIn doesn't know that kind of stuff.
[00:37:09] spk_1: They know my birthday now to like,
[00:37:11] spk_0: Well, kind of
[00:37:12] spk_1: everything. Something. Four
[00:37:13] spk_0: sons of Scorpio. My step sons of Scorpio. I'm surrounded by a freaking crustaceans. It's not really crustacean, but it's a good thing Scorpios Air. Extremely passionate people. Sort of Geminis, both sides of their personality. Kind of deadly, too. So again, I said they're deadly Thio. You don't know which part of their crazy ass is coming
[00:37:37] spk_1: in which hands
[00:37:39] spk_0: now and exactly about Gemini is very artistic. You know what artistic? Most Geminis have some type of artistic quality. What's your art form? Betty? What do you dio Betty, uh, riding horses escaped me. The artistic part escaped me.
[00:38:00] spk_1: Are you crafty? Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I guess I could be a little crafty. You got grand, baby, so I mean, you have to be able to craft something.
[00:38:08] spk_0: Yeah, Show me like a candle. That is amazing. Cow pie. Candle. What? It's actually it's not really using an actual cow pie. They mix like cocoa and stuff like that with carafes in. But when it runs down, it's like, man damn that That really looks like a real cow pie. It was just something I found interesting on Pinterest when I was looking for Thanks for my hair change up my style. Don't judge me,
[00:38:34] spk_1: E Oh, my goodness. I bet I bet
[00:38:38] spk_0: the ads on that pops up on your like, the wish, and I hate when you google certain e crazy wish people fussing about it. What is wish? It's like a an app or something you could buy. Raise the off the wall shit from any, Like ships from china. I'm gonna get you might get it. You might know lunch. Okay? Yeah.
[00:38:59] spk_1: What do you mean you might get you might get what you bought, or you might get the app. Er well, it looks really great on the photo that you like. Oh, this is really cool. I think I wanna buy that. It's only
[00:39:10] spk_0: a dollar, and it looks like this gigantic something and you get it And it's like an inch big e happens when e yeah. Oh,
[00:39:19] spk_1: my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I just I just have to share that e share. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I was taking karate lessons last year in one of one of the guys that I took karate. What came in? And he goes, Oh, my God, I just got ah, full Iron Man costume and it does all these things, you know, things pop out. Looks just like what Robert Downey Jr wears. And that was exactly what happened. E e. I hope he doesn't listen to show, but it was, like, $2.99. So it was coming from China, and he was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna do kid's parties, and I'm gonna dio e was like, dying came. It was like a It was like an inch inch tall plastic shop. Kins years.
[00:40:15] spk_0: That's hot. I'm so happy. That's awesome. Well, we got conclude this interview, Linda, We would love to get you back sometime. There was just so much stuff, but with all of our normal technical issues with dragging up six point way really out did ourselves. We lost Jr in the set up. Um oh, man, we're trying some new stuff, But any last words? Any type of you know, motivational information you wanna put out to those that want to achieve board that want to get to your level and have a serious impact on safety from outside the field deserve if there's anything you tell us, Yeah, he's here.
[00:40:59] spk_1: I mean, you know, I try to I try to put it out there all the time on LinkedIn. Yes, you dio. And you know, the one thing that I can say is, if you want to do it, you could do it right and don't want it put you off that it might take a year or two years or three years or what? 20 right? Here's Here's the thing. You're gonna get older, no matter what. Okay, so you might as well be doing something with your time. And if you you know, even if you could do one class at a time or one training at a time or connect with one person at a time, it can be done. And there is somebody out there that will connect with you and will help you write and number one, I do it for us. Many people as I could do it for I know, Alan, that you're pretty giving human, despite your faults and, you know, you get back. And And, Betty, I believe in you that you could give back, and there are tons of people that are out there that can that can help you achieve your goals. And the more the merrier and safety, the more the merrier.
[00:41:58] spk_0: Well, thank you for your time. Thank you for your insights. And thank you for sharing personal stuff that normally wouldn't be brought up. Thank you very much for
[00:42:07] spk_1: I'm not going to get sued, am I?
[00:42:09] spk_0: No, no, no, no. Please just weren't khakis. Nobody said anything about
[00:42:13] spk_1: got this fear of getting sued.
[00:42:15] spk_0: Okay. Well, Betty, do you plan sooner? No. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you, Linda. Appreciate it, Betty. Thank you very much. Oh, we're glad you could make it without coming in on two wheels. And J r. When you listen to this way. Missed you. You could added so much to this and get me out of trouble.
[00:42:37] spk_1: Keep us on the trouble, please.
[00:42:39] spk_0: All right, Thank you. Thank you. This'll visited in this show is brought to you by Safety FM.
[00:42:52] spk_2: The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. It should not be utilized in the real world as the only solution available as they are based only on very limited and dated open source information. Assumptions made within this analysis are not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast, maybe reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical Elektronik, recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast, Jay Allen.