Jason Hanson
August 4, 2020
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay Allen speaks with Jason Hanson. Jason R. Hanson is a former CIA Officer and the New York Times bestselling author of Spy Secrets That Can Save Your Life. Jason is a frequent media guest and has appeared on The Today Show, Dateline, Rachael Ray, Fox & Friends, Shark Tank, and more. Jason runs his Spy Escape & Evasion training school out of Cedar City, UT.
Jason discusses practical applications that you can use for everyday life.
Enjoy it all today on The Jay Allen Show
Welcome to the J. Allen Show today It's Tuesday, August the fourth of 2020. I hope everything's going well in your neck of the woods as this world of ours keeps on evolving. I'm glad that you continue to come back and take a listen to our different episodes that we have available for you to sit back and enjoy well on today's episode, I think you're going to enjoy this wine, something different that we normally don't dio. And I don't think a lot of people have the opportunity of doing this. So I think you're going to enjoy this one today. On the show, we have Jason Hanson. He's a former CIA officer in The New York Times bestselling author of Spy Secrets That Can Save Your Life. Jason is a frequent media guest and has appeared on the Today show Dateline, Rachel Ray, Boxing Friends, Shark Tank and many more. Jason runs a spy escape evasion training school at a Cedar City, Utah. Sit back and enjoy this conversation between Jason Hanson in myself on the GL Joe So I normally start off with a very simple question, and it's probably the most difficult all of the same time. What drove you down the path on? Really? Because it is a level of safety that we're involved in. Now that I would say CIA is to solely safety, there's more to it. But how did it all start? You
[00:01:41] spk_1: know, how did it all start is I love running around in the woods as a kid with my BB gun. I love the Boy Scouts I loved, you know, self defense and all that kind of stuff, and I didn't want a real job. That's probably we're all starting, so
[00:01:55] spk_0: that's a real job.
[00:01:56] spk_1: Castillo. Well, when I mean real job is, that was in college. I was getting ready to graduate, and I didn't want to sit behind a desk pushing papers for the next 40 years, give or take. And so I was like, You know, what the heck am I gonna do with my life? And I was born and raised in the Washington D. C area, which meant every government agencies, your backyard and I started applying everywhere and anywhere, and the Secret Service in the CIA offered me a job, and I forget the agency would be a little more exciting. So that's the route I took.
[00:02:26] spk_0: So what are you going to school for? That all of a sudden, you have the flexibility to be able to change and say This is what? That I you know Any agency?
[00:02:33] spk_1: No. I had a business degree. And so, you know, I tell you that the agency and other government organizations, they want somebody well rounded, so pretty much it was either. Do you have a college degree or do you have some kind of military background? And my very first job out of college was a police officer, so I had no military background, but I had the police in the college degree.
[00:02:56] spk_0: So how does the path go from the police? Then you get into the CIA. It If I'm asking crazy questions about that, we have to tread lightly. I understand there's a court based on the information we have over 2000 applications. So how are you will say the lucky one, which I know it's not luck, but how does it happen?
[00:03:14] spk_1: Well, you know, it really Is it really is luck. I'll put it this way. Hollywood movies for Trey. Like somebody getting recruited. And I can tell you that, you know, probably 1% of people are actually recruited, and they're the geniuses who speak 27 languages and, you know, go to M I t. Excuse me there. The geniuses that speak 27 languages go to M I t and have IQ's that off the charge.
[00:03:38] spk_0: So it's not moving the recruit with Al Pacino where you know, they come and they capture you and try to do all these weird tests nothing like that.
[00:03:46] spk_1: 1% of people get records. Of the 99% are very blessed like I am will reapply. And, you know, we've gotten good enough. Backgrounds were squared away. You know, we haven't been in trouble that we're fortunate to get a job there.
[00:04:00] spk_0: So how long were you in the police? As a police officer before you decided to apply for the CIA.
[00:04:05] spk_1: You know, it wasn't long at all. It was less than a year. So shortly after joining the Police department, both the CIA and Secret Service offered me the job, and it was almost the same week. And I obviously thought long and hard about it, but decided to go with the agency, and I joined the agency way back in 2003.
[00:04:21] spk_0: Hurry. Night. So So you have you have to ask is that's how it comes about you only having a year, a year experience in the police force. How do you feel the drive of saying okay, I'm just gonna apply for this and see what happens. It was it. Kind of whatever happens, happens. Or was it you really expected something to come about?
[00:04:40] spk_1: I mean, obviously, I expected something come about. I mean, I've always been a positive thinker, Really terrible,
[00:04:45] spk_0: terrible, that stuff. But
[00:04:47] spk_1: I knew it was a long shot, which is why I was also applying to other federal agencies, like the Secret Service. And I'm trying to think, well, supply if I I feel like applied to, like, everybody and anybody. So you know, again, I expected it. But I also know that I was a very, very lucky person.
[00:05:05] spk_0: So as the luck starts, where do you start taking the dives in when you start getting into the CIA? If you're allowed to talk about it? Of course. What is? Are you attached to a desk or you doing fieldwork? What's coming about?
[00:05:17] spk_1: Yeah, I mean, I'll give you kind of the general overview of that way. Don't get get any trouble. It's anything I'm not supposed t o process itself is obviously very in depth. That probably took me 12 months to get higher meaning, you know, they were on their back. Got the background check on you. They polygraph you, the medical you You have to sit with a psychologist, make sure not crazier, Saigo or anything like that. So it's very, very in depth. And then once you go there, you know you're trained for a very long time. So you go to the super secret squirrel facility called the Farm that they betrayed a lot of movies and then you go and do your job. And I was just That was not an analyst. Um, you know, I did protection type of work and other things, and surveillance is so on. I will say it's a wonderful place to work. They treat you like gold, and I have nothing bad to say about the agency. It's just that it's more of a single man's game. So a lot of the guys I knew were divorced or they didn't have great relationships with her wife, and I had some amazing mentors. But I saw my life 30 years, 40 years down the line. I was like, You know, I kind of wanted to get married and have kids one day, So I only spent seven years of the agency.
[00:06:24] spk_0: So what year are we talking roughly that you started.
[00:06:28] spk_1: So it was 2003 and I left in 2010.
[00:06:31] spk_0: Okay, so 2010. But during that time, I mean, we're kind of leaving a couple of major accomplishments that happened in 2000 and five. In 2000 and eight. You get the CIA's exceptional Performance Award. How do you are able to obtain those?
[00:06:47] spk_1: See, there's my nervous laughter. J You
[00:06:51] spk_0: wouldn't have it at some point.
[00:06:52] spk_1: Yeah, I mean, you. I I was blessed to be places toe have again mentors, supervisors, whatever thing you will. So I can't go into those. Okay, But I mean, really, there's, you know, I'm tryingto dodged the question cause I can't go into it, but I'll
[00:07:09] spk_0: just let me rephrase that. What would be comparable to in other organizations? What would you say? An exceptional award would be based off. She's,
[00:07:19] spk_1: That is, I have no idea. I really
[00:07:23] spk_0: think the M V P award of the MBA or something along
[00:07:26] spk_1: the lines, you know, I really, honestly don't know. Like I don't want to overstate it cause I'm sure there's a lot of people have gotten it. So
[00:07:33] spk_0: it's history now, so we can, you know, we can really play it up. Nobody will know you
[00:07:38] spk_1: say If I say, like, yeah, the envy people be like, You know that you're totally blown out of proportion. I will say it's like a gold star. If you have been a good school, a good kid in school, that that's what I'll say.
[00:07:51] spk_0: Oh, come on there, there has to be were there has to be so okay with all of you decided that, you know, you notice that this is a single man's game, you decided to get out. You want to do some different things in your life. So now all of a sudden you decide toe become the founder of a company. Why did the decision of start your own company.
[00:08:09] spk_1: Well, I mean, I loved what I did. I mean, I love personal protection. I loved, you know, all the training I had, the shooting, the driving, the, you know, all that type of stuff. And it is my passion. And so when I left the agency, you know, I've kind of got, like, a little entrepreneurial bug and start my own company. And, you know, I learned so many things that I could share. They're not classified. So when I write a book, for instance, I have to send in the C I A. They have to review it. It's a very in depth process. They have to make sure there's no classified material, and then they send it back to me and say, Yes, Jason, you can publish this and they've redacted five pages, 10 pages, you know, whatever they blacked out so again, by going back is I realize there's so much stuff that is not classified that I can share that everyday people can use. And so that's why I started my company because I was teaching, You know, my relatives, my family, my wife, you know, eventually got married. Kind of thing. So it's practical information that you don't have to be in the CIA to use. You just have to want to be safe to use it.
[00:09:09] spk_0: Now you know that somebody's gonna ask. What do you mean, got married kind of thing? What is the kind of thing
[00:09:13] spk_1: e? I got married. I got five kids. So there is later is the kind of thing.
[00:09:22] spk_0: Got it. So the name of the company Spy escape, innovation, innovation. Correct. Correct. Yes. OK, that's you find that spy escape dot com But there's a lot more to the story. I think we're kind of jumping ahead because you've got a couple of Well, I say a couple, You've done some interesting things as well on TV, but under some different things. And let's not kind of take out of the equation here. You've also been on Shark Tank.
[00:09:45] spk_1: Yes. So short thing is a funny story. So when I first left the agency, I was doing a lot of consulting so big companies would almost literally sneak me in the back door and be like, Hey, we've got this big security problem, you know, we don't know what to do Can you help us? You know, and you can't tell anybody that we brought you in because everybody thinks we know what we're doing. So I was doing a lot of that. And then somebody mentioned a show called Shark Tank. I never heard of it. I had never seen it. And I watched. And I was like, Hey, this is pretty cool. And it's funny as I was, you know, I got some business mentors because obviously I don't. Even though I graduated from from college with a business degree, they don't teach you anything about how to actually run a business. You know, it's all theory and no, actually. All right, right. So I so I had some business mentors. They were like, Listen, if you need a girl, if you want to grow this, you need to get the word out. You need to get publicity because right now, nobody knows you exist because you're the guy that gets stuck in the back door. So it was out of my comfort zone because in reality, I'm a very private person. I met introverts. I don't like drawing attention myself, but I realized I had to do it if I was gonna grow my company and spread the word and I felt I had a very important message that was worth it. So I think it was 2014. I went on shark tank. Um, Damon John was the one that I got to deal with, and short take was a huge blessing. I mean, because it opened up the door to the general public to the general masses who had no idea what I was doing. So yeah, short by far, was one of the best things to ever happen of my, uh, to me and my company.
[00:11:18] spk_0: So at the time and for the people that might have not caught the episode of Shark Tank, what are you pitching? What is your selling? What are you selling at that particular time?
[00:11:26] spk_1: So I was selling at that time my to day spy course. So it's a two day course where I teach you a statement of Asian stuff like how to escape duct tape, how to pick locks, how to pick handcuffs, using a bobby pin in hair, Brett how to become a human lie detector surveillance detection routes, which really means how to know if you're being followed. So I was teaching all these spy skills to people and I went on Shark Tank and thought, Hey, I want to do these, you know, more seminars again to the general public. And that's what I was lucky enough to get a deal for.
[00:11:57] spk_0: So you get the deal. Are you still involved with Demon James, or how does it come about?
[00:12:01] spk_1: So, yeah, I got the deal and we were partners for a year. So wait, a one year contract. He was a great guy. I could call him, email him whenever I needed, but after that I mean, he's got a 1,000,001 things going on, and it made more sense for me just to keep doing my own thing. So, you know, something popped up for it was amazing opportunity. I needed them. I could call Damon's that and be like, Hey, David, let's partner in this. But yes, it was only a one year agreement for the time.
[00:12:26] spk_0: Got it. Now I've actually had some other people on previously that I have been on Spark on Shark Tank, and they've told me some different experiences on what it goes about. and I've always kind of amazed to hear about what happened in the back. And now you did say during that particular section that you were an introvert at one time. Do you still feel that you are today or has that changed over the years
[00:12:46] spk_1: I know has changed all. I'm 100% like I do a lot of publicity. I mean, I'm again. I'm blessed to go on many television shows. Many news stations Why do things. And again, it helps spread the word. It helps grow the business. So that's why I do it. But in real life, I am, like, all given example. I'll give an example. We have a Christmas party. Um, you know, if there's a Christmas party and we can't find a baby sitter, I'll be like to my wife. Yeah, you go to the party cause the last thing I want to do is like mingle with people and talk, and it's just not by natural persona.
[00:13:18] spk_0: So when you sit around and you go to so when you have the opportunity to some of these parties, are you always kind of like looking around trying to figure out if some somebody's trying to do some hijinks. Yeah,
[00:13:27] spk_1: I enjoy observing people, you know. I'll stare. People observe. We'll see what's going on. And, you know, I'm happy to chat. But I'm not a person who goes up instructs conversation. So if I'm sitting on accounts, for instance, that somebody comes and wants to chat, you know, again, I'll be happy to have a conversation. But I'm much more comfortable just observing my surroundings.
[00:13:47] spk_0: So let's going to take some deep dives here and especially in the first book. And I know Are you already done with the second book or you're still in the process. So
[00:13:54] spk_1: it actually got three books out now, so yeah. Yep, I've had two books by Penguin, Random House and one by HARPERCOLLINS.
[00:14:00] spk_0: Okay, so the first book, when you decided to come up with the idea to do it, What are you thinking at the time? Your target and I know that your references and Smiley about some of the courses that you were doing. So this kind of like the appetizer to the coursework or is this the entree to the coursework?
[00:14:18] spk_1: So it's It's funny you mention that this is the appetizer after going on shark tank, I had basically a 1,000,000 people want to be your best friend? Of course you have. Everybody reaching out to you. And somebody reached out to be from Penguin Random House and said, Hey, would you be interested in writing a book? And I do enjoy writing. I write every day, articles, a nautical a day to my readers. And so I said, sure. And so I shared some of the tips, all the things you could put in the books, such as how to become a human lie detector and all that. So it is a perfect warm up for people who want to come out and take our live event.
[00:14:53] spk_0: So how is it working now in this new this new reality that we have? Are you Are you offering these classes virtually, or how are they coming about?
[00:15:02] spk_1: Yeah, I was very fortunate that we had videotaped some of our classes and videotapes. Some are training because a lot of our training targets high net worth individuals. So I have people email me and say, Hey, Jason, you know I can't afford that, or it can't get on a plane or you know I worked nonstop. You know, what can you do for me? So we had started, created a lot of online training and releasing other books and DVDs and videos. So when everything went to heck in a handbasket, we already you know, a lot of our business one was online, so it didn't affect us like it affected a lot of other people. In fact, this year is gonna be our best business year ever.
[00:15:37] spk_0: That's good to hear. So I guess that let's talk about some misconceptions that people have and where do you want to start? I'm sure that you have so many different theories that we could go down in regards of misconceptions. So are people inherently safe when they're out? And about now, I know you know, the inside is what I call it,
[00:15:57] spk_1: and people are not inherently safe. I mean, people walk out their door, they get in their car. They're zombies who stare at their phone half the time. They're lucky when the crossing the street, they don't get run over because they don't look too, you know, they don't look at up toe, actually see where they're going. So what I say is we who live in the United States of America and most of us live in safe cities. So we don't live in inner city Baltimore, where I have lived, so I know how bad it is. You know, we don't live in dangerous places so we could get away with not having good situational awareness we can get away with, you know, walking, staring our phone, never looking up. Never know what's going on around us. So we're blessed in that sense, you know, if you live in certain Third World countries while you're gonna get robber beat up in a heartbeat. But yes, most people, unfortunately do not have good attention to safety.
[00:16:48] spk_0: So as you So as you say that, what have you seen? Change now with what we're talking about in regards of seeing Cove in 19 and people staying at home and all these other things going on being is that a lot of people are working from home now is there are other things that they should be concerned about. Maybe browsers, things that maybe could be digital in regards of not being safe or what? What do you think about what comes
[00:17:12] spk_1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's the common sense stuff. Like make sure you have a VPN on your computer, a virtual private network, so that any time you're surfing the Internet, your information is encrypted That way, you know, somebody gets on public WiFi. You gotta have your VPN on so you don't get hacked or even at home. You know, simple stuff like, you know, when your uncle from Nigeria sends you that email promising the trembling dollars, don't send him money to do that. It's not really making sure you have a good route or same thing, making sure your router good password encrypted router. I mean stuff like that. And then even using certain email systems like Hush Male or Proton Male, where they encrypt your email. And it's much better than other types of emails for certain communication, cause I have Gmail for certain communications. But you know, if you're doing something very private having more secure email service, so those are some of the simple things that anybody can dio.
[00:18:05] spk_0: So is there a particular brand of encryption that you would recommend for VPN or a certain email service provider? I
[00:18:13] spk_1: mean, there are so many good BP ends these days. One of them just jumps. To my mind is I've used it is tunnel bear Ah, there's one knife I want to save. Used to its p A i P i A What the heck is that? Now I'm drawing a blank. But I mean, if you there's so many good VPN is that virtually do the same thing and they're dirt cheap, too. I mean, I think I paid 50 or 75 bucks a year for my VPN, so there's really no excuse not to have it. And then, as far as you know, the emails I just mentioned, Proton male is great kind of stuff, you know, don't send your Social Security number through Gmail or Yahoo or any those emails because, you know, they're obviously not a secure and then just never, you know, people. It always I do a lot of consulting and I get people have been hacked and, like, don't click on anything. Don't you know if you like, I don't text message. I never sent a text message in my life. I have a flip phone for my calls, but you know, people who get these text messages and click on these links and then their photos infected. Like if you get a suspected or assists suspect text message, don't click on it. Don't do anything with it. Just immediately delete it. So curiosity still kills a lot of people because they're clicking on these links.
[00:19:27] spk_0: So you know that now a lot of people are gonna go. I need to get rid of my smartphone. And if if Jason has a flip phone, apparently that's the route to go. Is that around? You would recommend to most. I
[00:19:37] spk_1: mean, I know 99% of people are not gonna do it. I do it for two reasons. One is a safety, but also for a convenience method, meaning like if somebody needs me, they're gonna call me, and I know it's important and my wife does text messages, sort of. My friends and I see them texting back and forth for what seems like an eternity when they need something. I'm like, just pick up the phone and ask er, you know, you know, like my wife will be talking to maybe our sister in law, brother in law. We need something, and it's taking attorney and like shows. Call them so you can get this done. So
[00:20:09] spk_0: I know it's supposed to be the convenience of the tax message. It's not going
[00:20:14] spk_1: to have, like, the text message back and forth, like for eternity. I love that. I know if my phone rings, it is something important because people who know me know I don't text message. So every once in a blue moon, somebody'll say they text message me. I'm like, you obviously don't know me very well because I get a text message, You know, nothing came to my flip phone.
[00:20:34] spk_0: Well, it's kind of funny that you say that because I almost sent you a text message on what we had going on first things. I'm glad I didn't do it. Now, that's
[00:20:41] spk_1: right. Yes, I would have never I would have never seen.
[00:20:45] spk_0: So there's a portion that you referenced earlier, and I want to make sure that I do talk about it. You've mentioned a concept of becoming a human lie detector. And of course, I wanted to wait a little bit before I got to it. Come on. Yeah, you have to give me some of the inside scoop. How does this work?
[00:21:00] spk_1: Yeah, I'll give you some quick and easy tips and these air tips that anyone can do it doesn't take years of learning or any spy training or quote unquote. So first, when the CIA sits you down to polygraph you, they don't immediately come out and say, Hey, Jason Hanson, are you working for the Russians or Hey, Jason Hanson, Are you trying to overthrow the United States government? They baseline you, and that means they see how you act normally and react normally. So we'll stay. You know, Jason is today. Tuesday? Yes. Is this carpet blue? Yes. Is it raining outside? Yes. You know, they ask you all those generic questions where there is no reason for you to lie or no reason for you to be uncomfortable. And then once they baseline you, then they hit you with the hard stuff are Hey, are you a Russian spy trying to infiltrate the United States government kind of thing? So the first thing you got to do is baseline someone. And that's easy. I mean, you know, your friends, your relatives, you know how they behave in a normal day. If I'm hiring somebody who's gonna work for my company. I baseline them first. All you know, just shoot the ball kind of thing. Hey, where you from? You know what? Your hobbies. What do you like to do? Tell me about your past work experience? I get them comfortable. Then when you get some comfortable, that's when you go in for the kill. So I'll give you an example. One of the the easiest way to detect lies is what I call the 1st 3 to 5 seconds. And what that means is, if I ask you a question and you're honest, you immediately respond before in person. You don't have a deer in the headlights Look, because you're comfortable in telling the truth. But if I ask you a question and you immediately get nervous in the face and you start stuttering and you're like, um well, you know, you're trying to buy time so your brain can conjure up a lie. So, Jay, do you want to play my little game and let me ask you a question.
[00:22:48] spk_0: Oh, God, we can do this.
[00:22:52] spk_1: Tell me the last time you stole something.
[00:22:56] spk_0: Wow, I'm sure I have. I just don't remember on top of my head.
[00:23:01] spk_1: Well, coming. You're telling me you've never stole something in your entire life?
[00:23:04] spk_0: Like like intentionally no paperclips. Yeah, I'm sure I was stolen from the office like several.
[00:23:10] spk_1: So when you're in sixth grade, you didn't go into the supermarket like, still better
[00:23:14] spk_0: You got it. You So do have me Now that I think about it. There was a time that I do remember now that now that you say that I was actually want to say I was probably 1st 2nd grade, I did still a piece of gum. That was the form of a hammer. And we were getting on for it. Yeah, but yeah, I did. Now that now that you mention that Yes, yes,
[00:23:36] spk_1: you and I. You know, I purposely probe it that way. You answer like a normal human being would answer. You didn't get any nervous tension or tones in your voice. You didn't start stuttering. You didn't ask me to repeat the question. So when I'm hiring people literally asking that after we're totally comfortable, I'll come out of left field and be like, Tell me last time you stole something. Most people have a normal reaction like you do where? Oh, yeah. Oh, you know, I can't remember. Oh, yeah. You know, I still a Snickers bar in sixth grade or stole money out of my parent's wallet when I was in high school. I've had instances where I asked that question and people get nervous in the face. They start stuttering, they start, um, and I try and calm down. After that, I say, Hey, don't worry about it. We've all stolen something, and this is a true story. One time I had a woman who went nervous has started stuttering say, Well, my last job, I stole a ton of office supplies because I was going to set up a competing company. But I decided not to do that. So now I'm here because I need a job from you. While obviously you did not hire that woman. Oh, so basically a simple lie detection that you do is if you want to know something baseline and then asking uncomfortable questions like one of the other questions I ask is tell me the last time you did drugs or sometimes I've got I'm hired for marriage things, and I'm like tell me last time you cheated on your wife. Innocent people answer quickly. They don't look terrified in the face, and they give what a normal human reaction would be. Liars. You can see the fear they start buying time. So that is, that is one of many examples of how to detect lies.
[00:25:11] spk_0: So it's not so. They don't give the traditional answer of determined or explain exactly what you mean by cheating. That's not exactly
[00:25:20] spk_1: what did Clinton say. Like what is the definition of was or is or whatever, he said. Oh,
[00:25:25] spk_0: I think that's gonna a just for sure by saying that making that reference
[00:25:30] spk_1: that is, just start going just one.
[00:25:33] spk_0: So that's one method. So that's something that you that you trained inside of your. That's something that's available on the course that you have. Correct.
[00:25:40] spk_1: That is correct. Yeah, we do a whole lie detection pork. Excuse me, We do a whole lie detection portion. Why would cover several ways where you can easily detect a live from your loved ones or co workers or whoever
[00:25:51] spk_0: now, Because, of course, in the world that I get to interact and there's accidents or incident investigations depending on how you want to look at. And some people still use that method of, we're going to talk to the individual person. Some people do, not everybody. So do you think that some of those techniques would apply to accidents or incident investigations? And I'm not talking. We also use the concept called Learning Teens. But that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about when they have, ah, one on one interaction when they're doing an interview for an accident and incident. Do you think that's something that would be beneficial to them?
[00:26:19] spk_1: Yeah, absolutely. Ideo. I mean, I've got several techniques that you can tell if somebody is telling the truth or not. One of them is, you know, somebody told you the story, and then you go back to it using that technique. So you're telling me that you really saw dear, when you swerving on the road and you know, ran into this and so you can see the nervous looked a stuttering if they're trying to buy time. Another thing I like to do is when groups is human beings. When they're lying, they do what I call the freeze and the freeze means if you're normally talkative and happy and you know, jovial when I'm starting asking you about something uncomfortable, you freeze, meaning you're not moving your legs as much or not new moving your arms as much. And the reason you do that is liars and their brain think to themselves. If I don't move and I don't attract attention myself, they'll never knows me. So they almost trying retract into a tortoiseshell. So if I'm, you know, handle, you make group in something Gon's wrong. I'm looking for that guy who is less movement, who seems like he's kind of frozen where the rest of the people are being normal behavior. And so the freeze is another great way to detect lies.
[00:27:22] spk_0: I have to tell you, there were mines me a lot of the end of the movie or the original Alfred Hitchcock's psycho movie, where he says, I think there's like a fly that lands on him and he goes, Look, I'm not gonna kill this fly that lands on him while he's in jail, where they will say that I wouldn't even kill a fly. I like what you're thinking. Concept,
[00:27:40] spk_1: right? Yeah, I mean guilty people in their mind, they think they're gonna fool everybody, but they always give off tells I mean, one of the things is we're great at lying with our mouth. Meaning, you know, people tell lies all the time, but the direction or head moves doesn't lie. So if I said you Hey, Jay, you're telling me you never stolen and your head nodded? Yes. You know, I'm telling you, I've never stolen. You're telling the truth. But if your head slightly moved to the left or to the rights, then I would believe the head. And I know your lines. So I've got to give you a quick example. I could care less what anybody's political affiliation is could care less what your political affiliation was. But when a Hillary Clinton was running for president, Diane Sawyer was doing an interview and I think was on 60 minutes and she said to Hillary Clinton along the lines of something like You and Bill have a wonderful marriage, don't you? And you can see her head distinctly nodding, left to right now. No position, as she says. Yes. So she says yes. It's a wonderful marriage where you could clearly tell she's lying And she has not had a wonderful marriage
[00:28:42] spk_0: when you see And that's very interesting that you mentioned that. And I say this because I have spoken to sales people where they say that when they talk, they shake your their hair, their head, Yes, when they're talking to people to have a natural response for them, for them to be agreeable to actually doing settles. And you're almost saying that your body gives those tell tale signs when you're asking questions.
[00:29:03] spk_1: Yeah, I've heard that sales technique and I totally understand you wanted to get in. Say yes, but mine is for lie detection. So using in the accident instant If I said, hey, you know, you're telling me you're only going 70 miles an hour and they say yes and another head, Yes. Then I'm gonna believe it. But if they say yes and their head slowly nods, I mean, it's not gonna be anything huge, but if they slowly nod to the left or to the right, as they're telling me yes, that I know they're line because the head doesn't lie where people live with her voice all the time,
[00:29:31] spk_0: so the interesting part then is you referenced earlier that you have five kids? Correct.
[00:29:35] spk_1: That is correct. Yes.
[00:29:37] spk_0: So I would imagine they can't get away with much now that they're trying to get anything over on you. But if you know all these little technique, here's
[00:29:44] spk_1: the funny thing about kids and I can tell us for everybody listening as kids. So I got married later in life. I did get married till I left the agency. And so I had kids later. So my kids are all seven years and under. Now here's the interesting thing about detecting lies. Children are not readable, meaning they don't give off the signs that adults do until about 8 to 10 years of age. And the reason is there mind doesn't truly understand a lie. So my kids, of course, do things all the time where they lie to me and say didn't hit her sister Brother didn't break the glass or whatever, but because they're so young. Still, they're not giving off the signs that a teenager you know, somebody over wood
[00:30:23] spk_0: You're like they're just one year away. I'm so close.
[00:30:26] spk_1: That's right. Oh, yeah. Believe me, I will put it to good use when they become of age.
[00:30:30] spk_0: I oh, I would be so worried. Is the child doing that? My dad knows that kind of stuff. Now, what are some other techniques that you can talk about? And by the way, before I forget to ask, what is the name of Can you give some of the names of some of the books that you've put out and what? The subject editors? Yes.
[00:30:45] spk_1: So one of them is called spy secrets that could save your life. And that is a bunch of this stuff we're talking about. Lie detection, escaping duct tape, escaping car jackings, kind of a bunch of safety stuff like that. But since I had so much material, I wrote a second. I wrote a second book called Survive Like a Spy and Survive Like a Spy Some of the best CIA operations that have never been told off a bunch of my buddies and other things. And so we took these amazing see eye operations, told the stories, and the end, showed the safety tips of how you can apply it. So, you know, how do you know if you're being followed? How do you know if somebody's trying toe kidnap you? That kind of stuff. So that's the second book. And the third book is a book and kind of a business book that I wrote, and it's called Agent of Influence and my What I like to say It's spies of the world's best salesman and a friend of mine has a quote that I love where she says, The only difference between you and me is that you sell vacuums and I sell treason. And so Speiser. So because you're convincing someone basically betray their country like if I was a I was a bad spy, J and I worked for China. I'd say, Hey, J you know, I work for China when you come in, you know, spy for the Chinese will pay a bunch of money and you know you'll spy on the Americans and yada yada betray your country. So it's obviously much more in depth and, uh, no different kind of picture than that. But spies air Very good, cause you're you've got to be a great salesman toe. Convince somebody to betray their country. So the third book, called Agent of Influence, is kind of the spice sales cycle, which is spotting, assessing, developing and recruiting.
[00:32:26] spk_0: Now this is readily available on Amazon. Or do they have to go directly to your site? Or how does that work?
[00:32:31] spk_1: So all these are available on Amazon? Yeah, Any any three of these books they can buy on Amazon right now.
[00:32:38] spk_0: So give us. Give us one more technique that we could probably use are in as application in our regular life.
[00:32:44] spk_1: So ah, a technique that I love and it's super easy. And this is a lie detection technique is the what I call the least punishment. So I'll give me an example of, ah, real life. One that happened. There was a restaurant. They were missing a significant amount of money from the till. So somebody was still a ton of money from the from the cash register. And so the way this one works is you take out a piece paper. You go to every single person. You tell them. I want you to write on this paper that what what should happen to the person who stole all the money? And so let's say there's 50 people who could be, you know, accomplices or you know who would be the thief. So you pass out 50 pieces of blank white paper and just say, Write down for me What should happen to the person that stole the $10,000 or, you know, whatever. I'm on the money. You gather all those pieces of paper back and you will see than most people have a common theme, meaning the person should be fired. They should go to jail. You know, they should have to return the money. They have normal responses. But there is that old Sesame Street thing where it's like one of these things is not like the other. And you will see an answer in there that says, like, you know, people make mistakes. They should be ableto hand the money back and keep their job. You know, they shouldn't go to jail or, you know, you're going to see the out liar, which is obviously the guilty person. So the guilty person clearly doesn't want to go to jail for stealing the money if they think they're gonna be caught. So that is a simple thing where you can use this on kids. You know, something goes wrong with your kids pass out five pieces of paper and say, Tell me what should happen to the person who just broke my lamp and you'll see the guilty party give the least punishment and you know you found
[00:34:22] spk_0: now, Jason, I have a question for you. Rook. What's your general consensus and feeling about social media? Do you think that things should be put on there for public view or being as you are seeing the stuff about taxing? What do you think about social media? Overall?
[00:34:35] spk_1: You know, it's funny. I hate social media. I have, like a Facebook page because I have a team that runs Facebook ads for my business. If you were to ask me why Facebook pages right now, I won't even tell you. I don't know how to get there. Put it this way. I have a Facebook page. I don't know how to get there, but I know that it says I'm still engaged and remember on half my kids. So that's like Wait, that all about. My wife knows I do nothing with social media, so, like when people tell me like a Jason I whatever instagrammed you or whatever it's like I You don't even know how to find my instrument. Page. I know we have one somebody, The company does something with it, but I have never been on in my life.
[00:35:18] spk_0: So then I guess this is gonna be a very strange question. Then. If people want to get more information about you, where do they go?
[00:35:24] spk_1: You know, the website you mentioned, spy escape dot com. That is probably the best way or, you know, buying any of the books, but yeah. I mean, I I have employees who do monitor Facebook. So if you found our facebook page, you know, an email would get through to me, but I will never Yeah. I'll never be on the fit Facebook,
[00:35:42] spk_0: President. So this is just a couple more things, and then I will let you be so three books that you have out and then the course. You said that you have recordings of it. Is there any virtual sessions that you're going potentially start offering the future? Is there any plans of that, or is everything kind of ah learning management system going forward?
[00:36:01] spk_1: So yes. So the three books air spy secrets You can save your life survive like a spy, an agent of influence. And the course right now is a learning management. So I recorded one of our to day spy events the life spy events. And so that's what you get to see you. To see everything I teach how to escape the duct tape. You get to see the full in depth of lie detection. So I don't have anything planned alive yet. You know, doing live trainings. I'm sure we'll do in the future. So right now it is just a course of recorded that you get access to in our system.
[00:36:30] spk_0: Okay. And there is there. Is it for a limited time, Do they get access indefinitely? How does the access work? So
[00:36:35] spk_1: I'm a believer. Lifetime access. Meaning? I know that we have busy lives. You may watch it one day. Forget about it. Want to go back and study it? So once somebody buys it, it's lifetime access.
[00:36:44] spk_0: Okay. And then it doesn't get updated ever so frequently. Yours, it access to this one, this one piece. So
[00:36:50] spk_1: it's access to this one course, but we do update things. We do include more videos because I shoot fresher videos. You know, things change. So, yeah, they do get access to that too.
[00:36:59] spk_0: Okay. Well, Jason, I really do appreciate you actually covering so much. So many different topics. I really enjoyed our conversation.
[00:37:06] spk_1: Hey, you're a great interviewer. This is fun. And you don't mind When I started dancing around, you know, some of the questions you asked me? Well,
[00:37:12] spk_0: no, I wasn't. I wasn't gonna push the buttons. You made it abundantly clear that there was only certain things that I could ask. I'm going to respect that. And especially, I don't want anybody knocking on my studio door saying, Hey, what's going on here?
[00:37:22] spk_1: I know that's ready. I've already dealt with the, actually, I'm saying already done with the ages, but I have a very good relationship with them. So yes, agency go bother J. Don't bother
[00:37:30] spk_0: Jason. I really do appreciate it. Thank you. Well, this brings another episode of the J. Allen show to an end. Hopefully, you enjoyed our conversation today when Jason Hanson and hopefully these are, some techniques that you can practice on your love ones. I say that jokingly, of course, but definitely given some practice, if you get a opportunity. Please go to Jason's website Spy Escape innovations dot com. Anyway, thank you for always being the best part of safety FM, and that is the listener. Don't worry. We'll be back with another episode of the J. Ellen show before too long. Bye for now.
[00:01:41] spk_1: know, how did it all start is I love running around in the woods as a kid with my BB gun. I love the Boy Scouts I loved, you know, self defense and all that kind of stuff, and I didn't want a real job. That's probably we're all starting, so
[00:01:55] spk_0: that's a real job.
[00:01:56] spk_1: Castillo. Well, when I mean real job is, that was in college. I was getting ready to graduate, and I didn't want to sit behind a desk pushing papers for the next 40 years, give or take. And so I was like, You know, what the heck am I gonna do with my life? And I was born and raised in the Washington D. C area, which meant every government agencies, your backyard and I started applying everywhere and anywhere, and the Secret Service in the CIA offered me a job, and I forget the agency would be a little more exciting. So that's the route I took.
[00:02:26] spk_0: So what are you going to school for? That all of a sudden, you have the flexibility to be able to change and say This is what? That I you know Any agency?
[00:02:33] spk_1: No. I had a business degree. And so, you know, I tell you that the agency and other government organizations, they want somebody well rounded, so pretty much it was either. Do you have a college degree or do you have some kind of military background? And my very first job out of college was a police officer, so I had no military background, but I had the police in the college degree.
[00:02:56] spk_0: So how does the path go from the police? Then you get into the CIA. It If I'm asking crazy questions about that, we have to tread lightly. I understand there's a court based on the information we have over 2000 applications. So how are you will say the lucky one, which I know it's not luck, but how does it happen?
[00:03:14] spk_1: Well, you know, it really Is it really is luck. I'll put it this way. Hollywood movies for Trey. Like somebody getting recruited. And I can tell you that, you know, probably 1% of people are actually recruited, and they're the geniuses who speak 27 languages and, you know, go to M I t. Excuse me there. The geniuses that speak 27 languages go to M I t and have IQ's that off the charge.
[00:03:38] spk_0: So it's not moving the recruit with Al Pacino where you know, they come and they capture you and try to do all these weird tests nothing like that.
[00:03:46] spk_1: 1% of people get records. Of the 99% are very blessed like I am will reapply. And, you know, we've gotten good enough. Backgrounds were squared away. You know, we haven't been in trouble that we're fortunate to get a job there.
[00:04:00] spk_0: So how long were you in the police? As a police officer before you decided to apply for the CIA.
[00:04:05] spk_1: You know, it wasn't long at all. It was less than a year. So shortly after joining the Police department, both the CIA and Secret Service offered me the job, and it was almost the same week. And I obviously thought long and hard about it, but decided to go with the agency, and I joined the agency way back in 2003.
[00:04:21] spk_0: Hurry. Night. So So you have you have to ask is that's how it comes about you only having a year, a year experience in the police force. How do you feel the drive of saying okay, I'm just gonna apply for this and see what happens. It was it. Kind of whatever happens, happens. Or was it you really expected something to come about?
[00:04:40] spk_1: I mean, obviously, I expected something come about. I mean, I've always been a positive thinker, Really terrible,
[00:04:45] spk_0: terrible, that stuff. But
[00:04:47] spk_1: I knew it was a long shot, which is why I was also applying to other federal agencies, like the Secret Service. And I'm trying to think, well, supply if I I feel like applied to, like, everybody and anybody. So you know, again, I expected it. But I also know that I was a very, very lucky person.
[00:05:05] spk_0: So as the luck starts, where do you start taking the dives in when you start getting into the CIA? If you're allowed to talk about it? Of course. What is? Are you attached to a desk or you doing fieldwork? What's coming about?
[00:05:17] spk_1: Yeah, I mean, I'll give you kind of the general overview of that way. Don't get get any trouble. It's anything I'm not supposed t o process itself is obviously very in depth. That probably took me 12 months to get higher meaning, you know, they were on their back. Got the background check on you. They polygraph you, the medical you You have to sit with a psychologist, make sure not crazier, Saigo or anything like that. So it's very, very in depth. And then once you go there, you know you're trained for a very long time. So you go to the super secret squirrel facility called the Farm that they betrayed a lot of movies and then you go and do your job. And I was just That was not an analyst. Um, you know, I did protection type of work and other things, and surveillance is so on. I will say it's a wonderful place to work. They treat you like gold, and I have nothing bad to say about the agency. It's just that it's more of a single man's game. So a lot of the guys I knew were divorced or they didn't have great relationships with her wife, and I had some amazing mentors. But I saw my life 30 years, 40 years down the line. I was like, You know, I kind of wanted to get married and have kids one day, So I only spent seven years of the agency.
[00:06:24] spk_0: So what year are we talking roughly that you started.
[00:06:28] spk_1: So it was 2003 and I left in 2010.
[00:06:31] spk_0: Okay, so 2010. But during that time, I mean, we're kind of leaving a couple of major accomplishments that happened in 2000 and five. In 2000 and eight. You get the CIA's exceptional Performance Award. How do you are able to obtain those?
[00:06:47] spk_1: See, there's my nervous laughter. J You
[00:06:51] spk_0: wouldn't have it at some point.
[00:06:52] spk_1: Yeah, I mean, you. I I was blessed to be places toe have again mentors, supervisors, whatever thing you will. So I can't go into those. Okay, But I mean, really, there's, you know, I'm tryingto dodged the question cause I can't go into it, but I'll
[00:07:09] spk_0: just let me rephrase that. What would be comparable to in other organizations? What would you say? An exceptional award would be based off. She's,
[00:07:19] spk_1: That is, I have no idea. I really
[00:07:23] spk_0: think the M V P award of the MBA or something along
[00:07:26] spk_1: the lines, you know, I really, honestly don't know. Like I don't want to overstate it cause I'm sure there's a lot of people have gotten it. So
[00:07:33] spk_0: it's history now, so we can, you know, we can really play it up. Nobody will know you
[00:07:38] spk_1: say If I say, like, yeah, the envy people be like, You know that you're totally blown out of proportion. I will say it's like a gold star. If you have been a good school, a good kid in school, that that's what I'll say.
[00:07:51] spk_0: Oh, come on there, there has to be were there has to be so okay with all of you decided that, you know, you notice that this is a single man's game, you decided to get out. You want to do some different things in your life. So now all of a sudden you decide toe become the founder of a company. Why did the decision of start your own company.
[00:08:09] spk_1: Well, I mean, I loved what I did. I mean, I love personal protection. I loved, you know, all the training I had, the shooting, the driving, the, you know, all that type of stuff. And it is my passion. And so when I left the agency, you know, I've kind of got, like, a little entrepreneurial bug and start my own company. And, you know, I learned so many things that I could share. They're not classified. So when I write a book, for instance, I have to send in the C I A. They have to review it. It's a very in depth process. They have to make sure there's no classified material, and then they send it back to me and say, Yes, Jason, you can publish this and they've redacted five pages, 10 pages, you know, whatever they blacked out so again, by going back is I realize there's so much stuff that is not classified that I can share that everyday people can use. And so that's why I started my company because I was teaching, You know, my relatives, my family, my wife, you know, eventually got married. Kind of thing. So it's practical information that you don't have to be in the CIA to use. You just have to want to be safe to use it.
[00:09:09] spk_0: Now you know that somebody's gonna ask. What do you mean, got married kind of thing? What is the kind of thing
[00:09:13] spk_1: e? I got married. I got five kids. So there is later is the kind of thing.
[00:09:22] spk_0: Got it. So the name of the company Spy escape, innovation, innovation. Correct. Correct. Yes. OK, that's you find that spy escape dot com But there's a lot more to the story. I think we're kind of jumping ahead because you've got a couple of Well, I say a couple, You've done some interesting things as well on TV, but under some different things. And let's not kind of take out of the equation here. You've also been on Shark Tank.
[00:09:45] spk_1: Yes. So short thing is a funny story. So when I first left the agency, I was doing a lot of consulting so big companies would almost literally sneak me in the back door and be like, Hey, we've got this big security problem, you know, we don't know what to do Can you help us? You know, and you can't tell anybody that we brought you in because everybody thinks we know what we're doing. So I was doing a lot of that. And then somebody mentioned a show called Shark Tank. I never heard of it. I had never seen it. And I watched. And I was like, Hey, this is pretty cool. And it's funny as I was, you know, I got some business mentors because obviously I don't. Even though I graduated from from college with a business degree, they don't teach you anything about how to actually run a business. You know, it's all theory and no, actually. All right, right. So I so I had some business mentors. They were like, Listen, if you need a girl, if you want to grow this, you need to get the word out. You need to get publicity because right now, nobody knows you exist because you're the guy that gets stuck in the back door. So it was out of my comfort zone because in reality, I'm a very private person. I met introverts. I don't like drawing attention myself, but I realized I had to do it if I was gonna grow my company and spread the word and I felt I had a very important message that was worth it. So I think it was 2014. I went on shark tank. Um, Damon John was the one that I got to deal with, and short take was a huge blessing. I mean, because it opened up the door to the general public to the general masses who had no idea what I was doing. So yeah, short by far, was one of the best things to ever happen of my, uh, to me and my company.
[00:11:18] spk_0: So at the time and for the people that might have not caught the episode of Shark Tank, what are you pitching? What is your selling? What are you selling at that particular time?
[00:11:26] spk_1: So I was selling at that time my to day spy course. So it's a two day course where I teach you a statement of Asian stuff like how to escape duct tape, how to pick locks, how to pick handcuffs, using a bobby pin in hair, Brett how to become a human lie detector surveillance detection routes, which really means how to know if you're being followed. So I was teaching all these spy skills to people and I went on Shark Tank and thought, Hey, I want to do these, you know, more seminars again to the general public. And that's what I was lucky enough to get a deal for.
[00:11:57] spk_0: So you get the deal. Are you still involved with Demon James, or how does it come about?
[00:12:01] spk_1: So, yeah, I got the deal and we were partners for a year. So wait, a one year contract. He was a great guy. I could call him, email him whenever I needed, but after that I mean, he's got a 1,000,001 things going on, and it made more sense for me just to keep doing my own thing. So, you know, something popped up for it was amazing opportunity. I needed them. I could call Damon's that and be like, Hey, David, let's partner in this. But yes, it was only a one year agreement for the time.
[00:12:26] spk_0: Got it. Now I've actually had some other people on previously that I have been on Spark on Shark Tank, and they've told me some different experiences on what it goes about. and I've always kind of amazed to hear about what happened in the back. And now you did say during that particular section that you were an introvert at one time. Do you still feel that you are today or has that changed over the years
[00:12:46] spk_1: I know has changed all. I'm 100% like I do a lot of publicity. I mean, I'm again. I'm blessed to go on many television shows. Many news stations Why do things. And again, it helps spread the word. It helps grow the business. So that's why I do it. But in real life, I am, like, all given example. I'll give an example. We have a Christmas party. Um, you know, if there's a Christmas party and we can't find a baby sitter, I'll be like to my wife. Yeah, you go to the party cause the last thing I want to do is like mingle with people and talk, and it's just not by natural persona.
[00:13:18] spk_0: So when you sit around and you go to so when you have the opportunity to some of these parties, are you always kind of like looking around trying to figure out if some somebody's trying to do some hijinks. Yeah,
[00:13:27] spk_1: I enjoy observing people, you know. I'll stare. People observe. We'll see what's going on. And, you know, I'm happy to chat. But I'm not a person who goes up instructs conversation. So if I'm sitting on accounts, for instance, that somebody comes and wants to chat, you know, again, I'll be happy to have a conversation. But I'm much more comfortable just observing my surroundings.
[00:13:47] spk_0: So let's going to take some deep dives here and especially in the first book. And I know Are you already done with the second book or you're still in the process. So
[00:13:54] spk_1: it actually got three books out now, so yeah. Yep, I've had two books by Penguin, Random House and one by HARPERCOLLINS.
[00:14:00] spk_0: Okay, so the first book, when you decided to come up with the idea to do it, What are you thinking at the time? Your target and I know that your references and Smiley about some of the courses that you were doing. So this kind of like the appetizer to the coursework or is this the entree to the coursework?
[00:14:18] spk_1: So it's It's funny you mention that this is the appetizer after going on shark tank, I had basically a 1,000,000 people want to be your best friend? Of course you have. Everybody reaching out to you. And somebody reached out to be from Penguin Random House and said, Hey, would you be interested in writing a book? And I do enjoy writing. I write every day, articles, a nautical a day to my readers. And so I said, sure. And so I shared some of the tips, all the things you could put in the books, such as how to become a human lie detector and all that. So it is a perfect warm up for people who want to come out and take our live event.
[00:14:53] spk_0: So how is it working now in this new this new reality that we have? Are you Are you offering these classes virtually, or how are they coming about?
[00:15:02] spk_1: Yeah, I was very fortunate that we had videotaped some of our classes and videotapes. Some are training because a lot of our training targets high net worth individuals. So I have people email me and say, Hey, Jason, you know I can't afford that, or it can't get on a plane or you know I worked nonstop. You know, what can you do for me? So we had started, created a lot of online training and releasing other books and DVDs and videos. So when everything went to heck in a handbasket, we already you know, a lot of our business one was online, so it didn't affect us like it affected a lot of other people. In fact, this year is gonna be our best business year ever.
[00:15:37] spk_0: That's good to hear. So I guess that let's talk about some misconceptions that people have and where do you want to start? I'm sure that you have so many different theories that we could go down in regards of misconceptions. So are people inherently safe when they're out? And about now, I know you know, the inside is what I call it,
[00:15:57] spk_1: and people are not inherently safe. I mean, people walk out their door, they get in their car. They're zombies who stare at their phone half the time. They're lucky when the crossing the street, they don't get run over because they don't look too, you know, they don't look at up toe, actually see where they're going. So what I say is we who live in the United States of America and most of us live in safe cities. So we don't live in inner city Baltimore, where I have lived, so I know how bad it is. You know, we don't live in dangerous places so we could get away with not having good situational awareness we can get away with, you know, walking, staring our phone, never looking up. Never know what's going on around us. So we're blessed in that sense, you know, if you live in certain Third World countries while you're gonna get robber beat up in a heartbeat. But yes, most people, unfortunately do not have good attention to safety.
[00:16:48] spk_0: So as you So as you say that, what have you seen? Change now with what we're talking about in regards of seeing Cove in 19 and people staying at home and all these other things going on being is that a lot of people are working from home now is there are other things that they should be concerned about. Maybe browsers, things that maybe could be digital in regards of not being safe or what? What do you think about what comes
[00:17:12] spk_1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's the common sense stuff. Like make sure you have a VPN on your computer, a virtual private network, so that any time you're surfing the Internet, your information is encrypted That way, you know, somebody gets on public WiFi. You gotta have your VPN on so you don't get hacked or even at home. You know, simple stuff like, you know, when your uncle from Nigeria sends you that email promising the trembling dollars, don't send him money to do that. It's not really making sure you have a good route or same thing, making sure your router good password encrypted router. I mean stuff like that. And then even using certain email systems like Hush Male or Proton Male, where they encrypt your email. And it's much better than other types of emails for certain communication, cause I have Gmail for certain communications. But you know, if you're doing something very private having more secure email service, so those are some of the simple things that anybody can dio.
[00:18:05] spk_0: So is there a particular brand of encryption that you would recommend for VPN or a certain email service provider? I
[00:18:13] spk_1: mean, there are so many good BP ends these days. One of them just jumps. To my mind is I've used it is tunnel bear Ah, there's one knife I want to save. Used to its p A i P i A What the heck is that? Now I'm drawing a blank. But I mean, if you there's so many good VPN is that virtually do the same thing and they're dirt cheap, too. I mean, I think I paid 50 or 75 bucks a year for my VPN, so there's really no excuse not to have it. And then, as far as you know, the emails I just mentioned, Proton male is great kind of stuff, you know, don't send your Social Security number through Gmail or Yahoo or any those emails because, you know, they're obviously not a secure and then just never, you know, people. It always I do a lot of consulting and I get people have been hacked and, like, don't click on anything. Don't you know if you like, I don't text message. I never sent a text message in my life. I have a flip phone for my calls, but you know, people who get these text messages and click on these links and then their photos infected. Like if you get a suspected or assists suspect text message, don't click on it. Don't do anything with it. Just immediately delete it. So curiosity still kills a lot of people because they're clicking on these links.
[00:19:27] spk_0: So you know that now a lot of people are gonna go. I need to get rid of my smartphone. And if if Jason has a flip phone, apparently that's the route to go. Is that around? You would recommend to most. I
[00:19:37] spk_1: mean, I know 99% of people are not gonna do it. I do it for two reasons. One is a safety, but also for a convenience method, meaning like if somebody needs me, they're gonna call me, and I know it's important and my wife does text messages, sort of. My friends and I see them texting back and forth for what seems like an eternity when they need something. I'm like, just pick up the phone and ask er, you know, you know, like my wife will be talking to maybe our sister in law, brother in law. We need something, and it's taking attorney and like shows. Call them so you can get this done. So
[00:20:09] spk_0: I know it's supposed to be the convenience of the tax message. It's not going
[00:20:14] spk_1: to have, like, the text message back and forth, like for eternity. I love that. I know if my phone rings, it is something important because people who know me know I don't text message. So every once in a blue moon, somebody'll say they text message me. I'm like, you obviously don't know me very well because I get a text message, You know, nothing came to my flip phone.
[00:20:34] spk_0: Well, it's kind of funny that you say that because I almost sent you a text message on what we had going on first things. I'm glad I didn't do it. Now, that's
[00:20:41] spk_1: right. Yes, I would have never I would have never seen.
[00:20:45] spk_0: So there's a portion that you referenced earlier, and I want to make sure that I do talk about it. You've mentioned a concept of becoming a human lie detector. And of course, I wanted to wait a little bit before I got to it. Come on. Yeah, you have to give me some of the inside scoop. How does this work?
[00:21:00] spk_1: Yeah, I'll give you some quick and easy tips and these air tips that anyone can do it doesn't take years of learning or any spy training or quote unquote. So first, when the CIA sits you down to polygraph you, they don't immediately come out and say, Hey, Jason Hanson, are you working for the Russians or Hey, Jason Hanson, Are you trying to overthrow the United States government? They baseline you, and that means they see how you act normally and react normally. So we'll stay. You know, Jason is today. Tuesday? Yes. Is this carpet blue? Yes. Is it raining outside? Yes. You know, they ask you all those generic questions where there is no reason for you to lie or no reason for you to be uncomfortable. And then once they baseline you, then they hit you with the hard stuff are Hey, are you a Russian spy trying to infiltrate the United States government kind of thing? So the first thing you got to do is baseline someone. And that's easy. I mean, you know, your friends, your relatives, you know how they behave in a normal day. If I'm hiring somebody who's gonna work for my company. I baseline them first. All you know, just shoot the ball kind of thing. Hey, where you from? You know what? Your hobbies. What do you like to do? Tell me about your past work experience? I get them comfortable. Then when you get some comfortable, that's when you go in for the kill. So I'll give you an example. One of the the easiest way to detect lies is what I call the 1st 3 to 5 seconds. And what that means is, if I ask you a question and you're honest, you immediately respond before in person. You don't have a deer in the headlights Look, because you're comfortable in telling the truth. But if I ask you a question and you immediately get nervous in the face and you start stuttering and you're like, um well, you know, you're trying to buy time so your brain can conjure up a lie. So, Jay, do you want to play my little game and let me ask you a question.
[00:22:48] spk_0: Oh, God, we can do this.
[00:22:52] spk_1: Tell me the last time you stole something.
[00:22:56] spk_0: Wow, I'm sure I have. I just don't remember on top of my head.
[00:23:01] spk_1: Well, coming. You're telling me you've never stole something in your entire life?
[00:23:04] spk_0: Like like intentionally no paperclips. Yeah, I'm sure I was stolen from the office like several.
[00:23:10] spk_1: So when you're in sixth grade, you didn't go into the supermarket like, still better
[00:23:14] spk_0: You got it. You So do have me Now that I think about it. There was a time that I do remember now that now that you say that I was actually want to say I was probably 1st 2nd grade, I did still a piece of gum. That was the form of a hammer. And we were getting on for it. Yeah, but yeah, I did. Now that now that you mention that Yes, yes,
[00:23:36] spk_1: you and I. You know, I purposely probe it that way. You answer like a normal human being would answer. You didn't get any nervous tension or tones in your voice. You didn't start stuttering. You didn't ask me to repeat the question. So when I'm hiring people literally asking that after we're totally comfortable, I'll come out of left field and be like, Tell me last time you stole something. Most people have a normal reaction like you do where? Oh, yeah. Oh, you know, I can't remember. Oh, yeah. You know, I still a Snickers bar in sixth grade or stole money out of my parent's wallet when I was in high school. I've had instances where I asked that question and people get nervous in the face. They start stuttering, they start, um, and I try and calm down. After that, I say, Hey, don't worry about it. We've all stolen something, and this is a true story. One time I had a woman who went nervous has started stuttering say, Well, my last job, I stole a ton of office supplies because I was going to set up a competing company. But I decided not to do that. So now I'm here because I need a job from you. While obviously you did not hire that woman. Oh, so basically a simple lie detection that you do is if you want to know something baseline and then asking uncomfortable questions like one of the other questions I ask is tell me the last time you did drugs or sometimes I've got I'm hired for marriage things, and I'm like tell me last time you cheated on your wife. Innocent people answer quickly. They don't look terrified in the face, and they give what a normal human reaction would be. Liars. You can see the fear they start buying time. So that is, that is one of many examples of how to detect lies.
[00:25:11] spk_0: So it's not so. They don't give the traditional answer of determined or explain exactly what you mean by cheating. That's not exactly
[00:25:20] spk_1: what did Clinton say. Like what is the definition of was or is or whatever, he said. Oh,
[00:25:25] spk_0: I think that's gonna a just for sure by saying that making that reference
[00:25:30] spk_1: that is, just start going just one.
[00:25:33] spk_0: So that's one method. So that's something that you that you trained inside of your. That's something that's available on the course that you have. Correct.
[00:25:40] spk_1: That is correct. Yeah, we do a whole lie detection pork. Excuse me, We do a whole lie detection portion. Why would cover several ways where you can easily detect a live from your loved ones or co workers or whoever
[00:25:51] spk_0: now, Because, of course, in the world that I get to interact and there's accidents or incident investigations depending on how you want to look at. And some people still use that method of, we're going to talk to the individual person. Some people do, not everybody. So do you think that some of those techniques would apply to accidents or incident investigations? And I'm not talking. We also use the concept called Learning Teens. But that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about when they have, ah, one on one interaction when they're doing an interview for an accident and incident. Do you think that's something that would be beneficial to them?
[00:26:19] spk_1: Yeah, absolutely. Ideo. I mean, I've got several techniques that you can tell if somebody is telling the truth or not. One of them is, you know, somebody told you the story, and then you go back to it using that technique. So you're telling me that you really saw dear, when you swerving on the road and you know, ran into this and so you can see the nervous looked a stuttering if they're trying to buy time. Another thing I like to do is when groups is human beings. When they're lying, they do what I call the freeze and the freeze means if you're normally talkative and happy and you know, jovial when I'm starting asking you about something uncomfortable, you freeze, meaning you're not moving your legs as much or not new moving your arms as much. And the reason you do that is liars and their brain think to themselves. If I don't move and I don't attract attention myself, they'll never knows me. So they almost trying retract into a tortoiseshell. So if I'm, you know, handle, you make group in something Gon's wrong. I'm looking for that guy who is less movement, who seems like he's kind of frozen where the rest of the people are being normal behavior. And so the freeze is another great way to detect lies.
[00:27:22] spk_0: I have to tell you, there were mines me a lot of the end of the movie or the original Alfred Hitchcock's psycho movie, where he says, I think there's like a fly that lands on him and he goes, Look, I'm not gonna kill this fly that lands on him while he's in jail, where they will say that I wouldn't even kill a fly. I like what you're thinking. Concept,
[00:27:40] spk_1: right? Yeah, I mean guilty people in their mind, they think they're gonna fool everybody, but they always give off tells I mean, one of the things is we're great at lying with our mouth. Meaning, you know, people tell lies all the time, but the direction or head moves doesn't lie. So if I said you Hey, Jay, you're telling me you never stolen and your head nodded? Yes. You know, I'm telling you, I've never stolen. You're telling the truth. But if your head slightly moved to the left or to the rights, then I would believe the head. And I know your lines. So I've got to give you a quick example. I could care less what anybody's political affiliation is could care less what your political affiliation was. But when a Hillary Clinton was running for president, Diane Sawyer was doing an interview and I think was on 60 minutes and she said to Hillary Clinton along the lines of something like You and Bill have a wonderful marriage, don't you? And you can see her head distinctly nodding, left to right now. No position, as she says. Yes. So she says yes. It's a wonderful marriage where you could clearly tell she's lying And she has not had a wonderful marriage
[00:28:42] spk_0: when you see And that's very interesting that you mentioned that. And I say this because I have spoken to sales people where they say that when they talk, they shake your their hair, their head, Yes, when they're talking to people to have a natural response for them, for them to be agreeable to actually doing settles. And you're almost saying that your body gives those tell tale signs when you're asking questions.
[00:29:03] spk_1: Yeah, I've heard that sales technique and I totally understand you wanted to get in. Say yes, but mine is for lie detection. So using in the accident instant If I said, hey, you know, you're telling me you're only going 70 miles an hour and they say yes and another head, Yes. Then I'm gonna believe it. But if they say yes and their head slowly nods, I mean, it's not gonna be anything huge, but if they slowly nod to the left or to the right, as they're telling me yes, that I know they're line because the head doesn't lie where people live with her voice all the time,
[00:29:31] spk_0: so the interesting part then is you referenced earlier that you have five kids? Correct.
[00:29:35] spk_1: That is correct. Yes.
[00:29:37] spk_0: So I would imagine they can't get away with much now that they're trying to get anything over on you. But if you know all these little technique, here's
[00:29:44] spk_1: the funny thing about kids and I can tell us for everybody listening as kids. So I got married later in life. I did get married till I left the agency. And so I had kids later. So my kids are all seven years and under. Now here's the interesting thing about detecting lies. Children are not readable, meaning they don't give off the signs that adults do until about 8 to 10 years of age. And the reason is there mind doesn't truly understand a lie. So my kids, of course, do things all the time where they lie to me and say didn't hit her sister Brother didn't break the glass or whatever, but because they're so young. Still, they're not giving off the signs that a teenager you know, somebody over wood
[00:30:23] spk_0: You're like they're just one year away. I'm so close.
[00:30:26] spk_1: That's right. Oh, yeah. Believe me, I will put it to good use when they become of age.
[00:30:30] spk_0: I oh, I would be so worried. Is the child doing that? My dad knows that kind of stuff. Now, what are some other techniques that you can talk about? And by the way, before I forget to ask, what is the name of Can you give some of the names of some of the books that you've put out and what? The subject editors? Yes.
[00:30:45] spk_1: So one of them is called spy secrets that could save your life. And that is a bunch of this stuff we're talking about. Lie detection, escaping duct tape, escaping car jackings, kind of a bunch of safety stuff like that. But since I had so much material, I wrote a second. I wrote a second book called Survive Like a Spy and Survive Like a Spy Some of the best CIA operations that have never been told off a bunch of my buddies and other things. And so we took these amazing see eye operations, told the stories, and the end, showed the safety tips of how you can apply it. So, you know, how do you know if you're being followed? How do you know if somebody's trying toe kidnap you? That kind of stuff. So that's the second book. And the third book is a book and kind of a business book that I wrote, and it's called Agent of Influence and my What I like to say It's spies of the world's best salesman and a friend of mine has a quote that I love where she says, The only difference between you and me is that you sell vacuums and I sell treason. And so Speiser. So because you're convincing someone basically betray their country like if I was a I was a bad spy, J and I worked for China. I'd say, Hey, J you know, I work for China when you come in, you know, spy for the Chinese will pay a bunch of money and you know you'll spy on the Americans and yada yada betray your country. So it's obviously much more in depth and, uh, no different kind of picture than that. But spies air Very good, cause you're you've got to be a great salesman toe. Convince somebody to betray their country. So the third book, called Agent of Influence, is kind of the spice sales cycle, which is spotting, assessing, developing and recruiting.
[00:32:26] spk_0: Now this is readily available on Amazon. Or do they have to go directly to your site? Or how does that work?
[00:32:31] spk_1: So all these are available on Amazon? Yeah, Any any three of these books they can buy on Amazon right now.
[00:32:38] spk_0: So give us. Give us one more technique that we could probably use are in as application in our regular life.
[00:32:44] spk_1: So ah, a technique that I love and it's super easy. And this is a lie detection technique is the what I call the least punishment. So I'll give me an example of, ah, real life. One that happened. There was a restaurant. They were missing a significant amount of money from the till. So somebody was still a ton of money from the from the cash register. And so the way this one works is you take out a piece paper. You go to every single person. You tell them. I want you to write on this paper that what what should happen to the person who stole all the money? And so let's say there's 50 people who could be, you know, accomplices or you know who would be the thief. So you pass out 50 pieces of blank white paper and just say, Write down for me What should happen to the person that stole the $10,000 or, you know, whatever. I'm on the money. You gather all those pieces of paper back and you will see than most people have a common theme, meaning the person should be fired. They should go to jail. You know, they should have to return the money. They have normal responses. But there is that old Sesame Street thing where it's like one of these things is not like the other. And you will see an answer in there that says, like, you know, people make mistakes. They should be ableto hand the money back and keep their job. You know, they shouldn't go to jail or, you know, you're going to see the out liar, which is obviously the guilty person. So the guilty person clearly doesn't want to go to jail for stealing the money if they think they're gonna be caught. So that is a simple thing where you can use this on kids. You know, something goes wrong with your kids pass out five pieces of paper and say, Tell me what should happen to the person who just broke my lamp and you'll see the guilty party give the least punishment and you know you found
[00:34:22] spk_0: now, Jason, I have a question for you. Rook. What's your general consensus and feeling about social media? Do you think that things should be put on there for public view or being as you are seeing the stuff about taxing? What do you think about social media? Overall?
[00:34:35] spk_1: You know, it's funny. I hate social media. I have, like a Facebook page because I have a team that runs Facebook ads for my business. If you were to ask me why Facebook pages right now, I won't even tell you. I don't know how to get there. Put it this way. I have a Facebook page. I don't know how to get there, but I know that it says I'm still engaged and remember on half my kids. So that's like Wait, that all about. My wife knows I do nothing with social media, so, like when people tell me like a Jason I whatever instagrammed you or whatever it's like I You don't even know how to find my instrument. Page. I know we have one somebody, The company does something with it, but I have never been on in my life.
[00:35:18] spk_0: So then I guess this is gonna be a very strange question. Then. If people want to get more information about you, where do they go?
[00:35:24] spk_1: You know, the website you mentioned, spy escape dot com. That is probably the best way or, you know, buying any of the books, but yeah. I mean, I I have employees who do monitor Facebook. So if you found our facebook page, you know, an email would get through to me, but I will never Yeah. I'll never be on the fit Facebook,
[00:35:42] spk_0: President. So this is just a couple more things, and then I will let you be so three books that you have out and then the course. You said that you have recordings of it. Is there any virtual sessions that you're going potentially start offering the future? Is there any plans of that, or is everything kind of ah learning management system going forward?
[00:36:01] spk_1: So yes. So the three books air spy secrets You can save your life survive like a spy, an agent of influence. And the course right now is a learning management. So I recorded one of our to day spy events the life spy events. And so that's what you get to see you. To see everything I teach how to escape the duct tape. You get to see the full in depth of lie detection. So I don't have anything planned alive yet. You know, doing live trainings. I'm sure we'll do in the future. So right now it is just a course of recorded that you get access to in our system.
[00:36:30] spk_0: Okay. And there is there. Is it for a limited time, Do they get access indefinitely? How does the access work? So
[00:36:35] spk_1: I'm a believer. Lifetime access. Meaning? I know that we have busy lives. You may watch it one day. Forget about it. Want to go back and study it? So once somebody buys it, it's lifetime access.
[00:36:44] spk_0: Okay. And then it doesn't get updated ever so frequently. Yours, it access to this one, this one piece. So
[00:36:50] spk_1: it's access to this one course, but we do update things. We do include more videos because I shoot fresher videos. You know, things change. So, yeah, they do get access to that too.
[00:36:59] spk_0: Okay. Well, Jason, I really do appreciate you actually covering so much. So many different topics. I really enjoyed our conversation.
[00:37:06] spk_1: Hey, you're a great interviewer. This is fun. And you don't mind When I started dancing around, you know, some of the questions you asked me? Well,
[00:37:12] spk_0: no, I wasn't. I wasn't gonna push the buttons. You made it abundantly clear that there was only certain things that I could ask. I'm going to respect that. And especially, I don't want anybody knocking on my studio door saying, Hey, what's going on here?
[00:37:22] spk_1: I know that's ready. I've already dealt with the, actually, I'm saying already done with the ages, but I have a very good relationship with them. So yes, agency go bother J. Don't bother
[00:37:30] spk_0: Jason. I really do appreciate it. Thank you. Well, this brings another episode of the J. Allen show to an end. Hopefully, you enjoyed our conversation today when Jason Hanson and hopefully these are, some techniques that you can practice on your love ones. I say that jokingly, of course, but definitely given some practice, if you get a opportunity. Please go to Jason's website Spy Escape innovations dot com. Anyway, thank you for always being the best part of safety FM, and that is the listener. Don't worry. We'll be back with another episode of the J. Ellen show before too long. Bye for now.