In this episode, Jhunette Lopez and Moses Nayakey take us on an exhilarating journey, sharing their backgrounds from Lopez’s upbringing in the Philippines to Nayakey growing up in Kenya. Both raised with strong work ethics and family values, they have always been driven individuals in areas of their lives. Their drive and determination led them to transition from Australia to the vibrant and diverse landscape of Dubai, where they explore and compare culture differences, work environments, and decision-making processes between the UAE and Australia. 

Timestamps:
00:01:10 | Embracing Professional Diversity in the Middle East
00:03:51 | Telecommunications and Technology Across Borders
00:05:04 | Serendipitous Encounters and Navigating the Accelerated Passage of Time
00:05:59 | Day in the Life of Jhunette Lopez
00:08:29 | Day in the Life of Moses Nyakeya
00:10:21 | The Cultural Exchange: An Australian Perspective in Dubai
00:17:37 | From Philippines to Sydney: A Journey of Dual Identity
00:19:32 | Cultural Heritage and Humble Beginnings
00:21:05 | From Wanderlust to Workplace: The Journey to HR
00:24:07 | To Technology, Engineering, and Beyond
00:25:38 | Vanilla Trajectories: Exploring Career Paths
00:27:28 | Australia v. Dubai
 
Resources and Links:

Transcript:
Jhunette Lopez:      

That’s what made me want to leave Australia. I don't like describing it like this, but it's a vanilla trajectory career path for an HR professional. So, whilst going to Dubai wasn't about [climbing] up the ladder, it was about exposure and experience, and I definitely got that and [am] still getting that. 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum, and in this episode, we’re speaking with Jhuntte Lopez, an HR professional at Samsung, and Moses Nyakeya, a technical product owner. They discuss their journey from Australia to Dubai in pursuit of gaining professional opportunities whilst building a strong property portfolio that allows them to have opportunities in UAE.

Tyrone Shum:     

Leaving behind the familiarity of Sydney, Lopez embarked on a quest for professional diversity, seeking opportunities beyond the Asian hubs typically coveted by Australians and ultimately finding her niche as an HR business partner in Dubai. 

Jhunette Lopez:      

I am currently in HR, so I'm an HR business partner. We are actually both currently based in Dubai. I left about five years ago, wanting something a little bit different from Sydney. [I grew] up in Sydney, having come to Australia when I was two with my parents and it was a case that my educational background [and] my professional background has always been here in Australia. 

I wanted something a little bit different and [more] diverse from a professional landscape. As an Australian, I feel like I tried to get a job in the likes of Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, [and] even the Philippines. I think that's where predominantly Asians tend to want to go, and I couldn't land a job there. 

Tyrone Shum:     

Embarking on a professional odyssey from Sydney to Dubai with Emirates, Lopez found herself immersed in a culturally diverse landscape, yet the unforeseen challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic cast a shadow over her journey. 

Jhunette Lopez:     

So it was actually in Dubai for a job with Emirates; that's what took me over to the Middle East. It's not that conventional. There [aren't] as many Australians, I feel, in the Middle East as there are, let's say, for example, British [people]. Yeah, it's what took me there. It's something professionally different, and Emirates is definitely a different experience. 

However, unfortunately, COVID wasn't very kind to aviation, and so I was impacted by that. I'm still in the HR business partner capacity with Emirates, and that would probably be the most challenging time for me professionally. We had to get rid of 30% of our workforce, and I was part of that. I wanted something different career-wise; I definitely got it. But I would say that the journey was initially very good at the start with pre-COVID-19. 

Working for Emirates and being able to travel has been wonderful. Being based in the UAE, [I] was so amused whilst I was there. When travel was good to be able to, you know, pop into another country, it's a three-hour flight. As an Australian, you're in New Zealand, or you're still trying to get over to Perth in that timeframe. So that's been a really magical experience. For now, we're still in the UAE, still in Dubai, and I'm currently working for Samsung. 

Tyrone Shum:      

Okay, so no more Emirates.

Jhunette Lopez:   

Unfortunately, it's been hard, especially being able to come home. It's been trickier and more expensive, that's for sure.

Tyrone Shum:     

Nyakeya reflects on his consistent journey in the telecommunications industry, finding common ground in technology across continents whilst acknowledging the unique experiences shaped by the diverse human dynamics encountered along the way. 

Moses Nyakeya:     

I am an engineer in telecommunications. I'm currently working with a local [indiscernible] over there as a technical product owner. That was my profession even back in Australia; I've always been in the industry in telecommunications. 

Obviously, [it's] a little bit different over there. But I guess industry and technology are [essentially] the same all over the world. So it doesn't matter where you are; you're always going to be in the same kind of environment most of the time. The world is so small when you actually look at it, because being over there has been an experience in itself. 

Tyrone Shum:     

I was going to say the only difference between technology is people. Technology itself works perfectly fine; it's the people that run them.

Moses Nyakeya:   

Exactly. 

Tyrone Shum:     

[With] their nostalgic reflections on how their encounter at a Christmas party sparked the beginning of their relationship, they ponder the swift passage of time, with parenthood adding an accelerated rhythm to life’s ever-changing tempo. 

Jhunette Lopez:   

It was at an after-work Christmas party many moons ago. I think it was 17 years ago, maybe. A long time ago when we were [like] puppies. 

Tyrone Shum:     

I know the feeling and can relate. Time flies, yeah, especially when you've got children. Time flies even faster. 

Jhunette Lopez:   

What is up with that? It's like, she was a little potato, she was a little scrunch, and now we're celebrating her first birthday. It's weird. 

Tyrone Shum:     

Just wait until you start celebrating when they're reaching primary school. I've got a seven-year-old and a nine-year-old, and I go 'Where has time gone?' 

Jhunette Lopez:   

It's super speed. It's even faster. I always thought that because we were getting older, time goes faster. Then when you have children…

Moses Nyakeya:    

It then goes much faster. 

Tyrone Shum:     

Immersed in the fast-paced work culture of the UAE, Lopez navigates her role in HR at Samsung, juggling various responsibilities from recruitment to managing cultural nuances, all while balancing the conveniences of modern services with the demands of her profession. 

Jhunette Lopez:   

The UAE is a work-work-work culture. It's equipped with [services] like nannies, lots of food services, meal plans, [and] cleaners. Everything is app-enabled. We were laughing because you can get your petrol delivered as well, so [that's what you can get] even when you don't want to pump your own gas. 

So life is easier in that respect with all the chores and [tasks] that need to be done. But in exchange for that, it's work work work. And so for me, what a typical day looks like in Samsung— I still commute, so good old public transport. So my day is a little bit longer because of that. 

I'm in the business of people, being in HR. So that's anything from recruitment, to performance management, to talent management, to succession, to planning, [and] unfortunately, to hiring and firing. That's kind of what my typical day looks like. 

And in terms of the HR calendar, it depends [on] what's topical. Sometimes, for example, when it rains in Dubai, it's awful; you can't even get to work. So that's what we're dealing with for the day. 

I also work for a Korean company, and so there are a lot of cultural nuances that get implemented from our headquarters. So [we] try to deal with that. We've got a lot of tenure as well as a lot of churn with our people. So the hiring is always constant. That takes up the bulk of my day—dealing with people [and] dealing with teams. 

And I look after the mobile division; our most profitable business. Obviously, when you think Samsung, you [usually] think phones before you think TVs and appliances. So that's the stakeholder group that I look after. In the Middle East, we're predominately a sales and marketing organisation, so sales and marketing professionals are my stakeholder group.

Tyrone Shum:    

Wow, that's amazing. So, in the UAE, is that the particular HR group that you're managing?

Jhunette Lopez:   

Yeah, it's the GCC (Gulf Cooperation Council). So we're even looking after places like Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, [and] Amman. So the remit is a little bit wider. But you know, there are only like half a dozen people in each of those countries on the ground. The UAE and Dubai especially is where we're predominantly based and located.

Tyrone Shum:     

Engulfed in the midst of a colossal digital transformation, Nyakeya’s daily routine unfolds with a flurry of meetings, strategic decisions, and collaborative efforts with diverse teams and partners. 

Moses Nyakeya:   

At the moment, we're [undergoing] a massive digital transformation over there. My typical day revolves around meetings, making decisions, [and] dealing with development teams— [including] engineers, software developers, [and] partners. 

Obviously, with technology, we have to partner, we have to work with different stakeholders and different technology providers. So if you think about that, you know, there is quite a number of partners that we actually deal with, considering you're building a brand new platform, whereby you're integrating different sort of connectivities, and all that type of stuff. So I find myself dealing with a lot of that every day —meeting [with] these people. 

From a software development perspective, [it involves] dealing with developers and trying to make things happen. Then at the end of the day, it's all about revolving around that day-in, day-out, of course, until the project actually finishes. Of course, the project actually has milestones and these milestones are marked. As you go along, you've got a time timeframe that you're actually working with. And you know [when you're] trying to achieve those time frames, it does squeeze a lot of time, and trying to get to that can be a little bit hectic. 

But again, as Jhunette was explaining, over there it's work work work, so it's actually quite long hours of trying to get things done.

Tyrone Shum:     

Amidst the hustle of chasing non-taxed earnings and embracing the glamorous allure of frequent travels, Lopez reflects on the precious moments of family time and the contrasting work-life balance observed in her new home in the UAE. 

Jhunette Lopez:  

Obviously, slaving away for non-taxed earnings. So [the] saving capacity is partially the reason why we're there. The ability to travel has been amazing. Like I said, when I was working for Emirates, I'd be ducking off to a country almost every second month, just because we could. So that's been glamorous. 

Though it's a work-work-work culture, like I said, everything is at your fingertips when you need a cleaner, you need care for your child, you need your petrol, you need something done. That's easy. 

But then what becomes really precious is your time with your family. So when it's family time, that's the priority. When you're kind of sort of saying, 'Well, you see the difference? That would be the main difference: that work-life balance'. 

We come here and we're like, [we see] people are working part-time, people are working from home, people are having work-life balance, people are having a barbecue on the weekends, people are going on their boat, and we're like, 'Oh, that sounds lovely'. And it's such a trade-off. 

Tyrone Shum:     

Navigating the intriguing social landscape of Dubai, they both often find themselves as conversation starters, defying expectations with their diverse backgrounds, promoting curious inquiries about their choice to reside in a city where the relentless pursuit of success intersects with the allure of home. 

Jhunette Lopez:   

I feel like being there is really interesting. You meet a lot of people in Dubai, and the first thing [they ask] is, 'Where are you from?' When you say Australia, they're always like, 'Why are you here when half the people want to get there?' It's an interesting conversation starter. Then Moses and I feel like we're an anomaly because I am Filipino, and [there's] a huge Filipino community; I think it's the third-largest population in the UAE. Then they hear my accent, and they can't place me. 

Similarly, like with Moses, [when] we say we're Australian, but they'll look [at us] and what they're expecting [doesn't match]. I guess that would probably happen here as well, but there, it's a little bit more [noticeable]. I would say it's a conversation starter, which is nice. 

But yeah, it's that [question]: 'Why are you here when everyone wants to try to get to Australia where there is work-life balance?'. And like I said, it originally was for [professional reasons], and now it's been a bit of a nice journey to be able to travel. Moses and his family are close by; that's [just] a four-hour flight instead of a 26-hour flight. And so, yeah. And being able to raise up your daughter somewhere a little bit different.

I think we personally know that home will be here for that very reason. You're kind of saying, 'Well, we've experienced both worlds'. This world is nice when we're ready for it. I don't know. We always have this conversation: Are we ready for it? Not sure yet. 

But I always feel that Dubai is a tipping point where if it doesn't serve you anymore, when the bad outweigh[s] the good of being there—because it's expensive, like [we] said it's [all about] work, work, work, [and] the weather is horrendous in summer. 

It's winter now, but in summer, when it's a 45-degree minimum for three months, and your life is indoors, and as an Australian, [we find] that's hard. 

We have the biggest malls, or we have all the biggest entertainment facilities. And that's because in summer, people need to be indoors. So that's why they have all this catered for you. But it's not nice. 

They always have the egg-frying challenge, [where] you fry an egg on your car bonnet and it actually fries, because by the time your car's sitting outside, it's 60 [to] 70 degrees. That just happens every summer. 

Tyrone Shum:     

Reflecting on their decision to reside in Dubai, Lopex ponders the multifaceted reasons driving their presence there. 

Jhunette Lopez:  

So, why are we there? I think it's still serving its purpose for travel, being close to the other side of the family, working, earning capability, and exposure. Like, to say that I'm looking after the GCC region, I'd love to say that I'm going to start to look after a bigger region, maybe Europe. 

Sometimes, I know from HR capacity, I probably wouldn't have [had] that [opportunity] here in Australia, so I needed to diversify. And I always think, hopefully professionally, I can come back to something bigger and better as a result of stepping out of the Australian landscape. I told myself three years; it's now been five. So let's see where it takes us. 

Tyrone Shum:    

It sounds like there are a lot of great career opportunities over there, and the earning capacity is much higher. Ultimately, it'd be making a lifestyle decision, and [many] people would like to go there for that reason. Hence, the reason why there's a lot of funding that comes out of that country as well. It's fascinating. 

Moses Nyakeya:  

Yeah, absolutely. I just was going to agree with what Jhunette was saying about the work-life balance. I mean, that's the difference that you find between here and there. There's more work-life balance here and there's that flexibility. While over there, there are also cultural differences, of course, where things need to go in a certain way. It's very strict in terms of flexibility and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, maybe one day, we'll be back, and we'll hopefully enjoy that work-life balance. 

Tyrone Shum:   

Absolutely. Well, Australia will always be your home. 

Jhunette Lopez:   

I agree. It's interesting, though, now that I can say I'm an expat. I romanticise [about] moving to the next country, because once you do it once, you feel like you can do it again. Every time we're travelling, I look at it with the lens of 'Could I live here? Could I work here?' So that'd be nice. Always romanticising, but yeah, I haven't executed on maybe the next potential location. 

But like you said, Tyrone, home is home. So when we do come here, it's all about family. Before every visit, and again with Emirates, I used to come maybe every three months—the beauty of being able to access cheap flights—, and I would pack my days, meeting up with everyone. 

But now, we're literally here for two weeks, and we're like, 'We'll see [whomever] wants to see us'. We don't make plans because we feel like we're so much on the go in Dubai; like, here is a time to slow down. So that's what we're doing for the past week so far.

Stay tuned for what’s coming up after the break as Jhunette Lopez discusses how her upbringing, surrounded by hardworking and determined individuals, shaped her own work ethic.

Jhunette Lopez:   

Being born in [the] Philippines [and] living in a community where it's [a] predominantly Vietnamese and Lebanese community, and ethnic community, [and a] working class community. That's what I know—so hard work. 

Nyakeya shares his lifelong vision of pursuing a career in technology and engineering, emphasising the significance of seizing opportunities. 

Moses Nyakeya:    

Obviously, I knew that this was my path to success, as I [was] told by my parents. You [have] just got to put your foot down and you got to do it, [as] your future is dependent on this.

They highlight the major differences in work culture and environments between Dubai and Australia. 

Jhunette Lopez:   

The biggest difference [is that] best practices [are] not there because sometimes it feels like businesses [are] still run like a family business. 

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:     

Growing up in the Philippines, before moving to Sydney, Lopez’s childhood was steeped in hard work and family values, shaped by the industrious spirit of her Filipino roots and the vibrant multiculturalism of her Australian community in Bankstown.  

Jhunette Lopez:  

So it's up north—a town called Rosales, Pangasinan [in the Philippines]. We're known for our vegetable dishes and known to be really good eaters. So I'd say tick and tick. I came here [to Australia] when I was two [years old]. 

So when you [ask me] 'Where is home?', it will probably be Australia, because my connection to the Philippines is very limited in terms of just visiting family. Again, with the opportunity to travel, it would be between every two to five years just to touch base with family, because half the family, I would say, is still based there, as well as here in Australia. 

So, my upbringing, having come here [at the age of] two [years old], I would definitely say we're a family that assimilated very quickly. I grew up in Western Sydney; we still live in Bankstown. Being born in [the] Philippines [and] living in a community where it's [a] predominantly Vietnamese and Lebanese community, and ethnic community, [and a] working class community. That's what I know—so hard work. 

My parents [are] both retired now, but [they were] a nurse and mechanic—so very working class, right? 

[During] my upbringing, even coming to Australia, I always hear[d] the stories. It was my dad's blood, sweat, and tears, selling sugarcane [that] got us here in the '80s when the floodgates were opened. The immigrants could come in. You still needed an airfare, and that's how we got here. 

So I love hearing that story because it makes me really industrious; like, that's where I feel I get that from. I'm determined because of my upbringing. Whilst I would say my connection to the Philippines is not that strong, it still is technically. I'm a dual citizen. I still visit. Like I said, there's still family there that we always frequent and visit as well.

Tyrone Shum:    

Born and raised in Kenya, Nyakeya journeyed to Australia for his studies, spending his early years in Wollongong before settling in Sydney, where he embraced the opportunities his parents worked tirelessly to provide. 

Moses Nyakeya:    

I was born in Kenya [and] grew up there until the time that I came to Australia to study. Predominantly, I was down in Wollongong most of my time here in Australia at the time before I moved up to Sydney after university to work in the city—of course, that's where everyone works. 

So growing up, knowing my parents—both of them were teachers [and are] now retired. [And I have] three brothers. [My parents] put in all the effort to make sure we go to school [and] supported us, [by] making sure that we have the best that they can get for us. 

Obviously, there's kind of a cultural thing [where] your children are [seen] as your future, right? [Like], knowing that the best that we [children] can get maybe will help them out at their old age, I guess. But having said that, it has always been humbling. Coming from a humble background and achieving what we [have] achieved  so far, [we find] it's actually quite humbling.

Tyrone Shum:   

As Lopez reflected on her education journey, she recalled her uncertainty about her future, ultimately deciding to pursue a Bachelor of Arts. Amidst the allure of diverse subjects, the realisation dawned upon her in her second year the need to secure a job post-graduation, hence steering her to the field of Human Resources. 

Jhunette Lopez:  

[I attended] a local Catholic school and then an all-girls high school. Then [I went to] university at the University of Sydney. I didn't know what I wanted to do [so I] got into a Bachelor of Arts. 

The first year was wonderful, trying every subject under the sun, [but by the] second year, [I realised], well I need to get a job after this. It's nice to do all those lovely subjects like philosophy and history, but at the end of the day, for me to be able to work, I sort of picked that HR route, and [thought], 'Okay I will be in the business of people', and that's where I landed. 

Education was an interesting one. I was the typical 'P's equal degrees' [student]. I think [looking] back to my industrious upbringing, I started working when I was 14 [years] and nine months [old]. My first job was at Burger King. And then when you're in university, and you're like, 'Yeah, I'm studying, but tasting money and earning money is just as good'. So I'm like, 'I will equally distribute my efforts with work and universities'. So I got there, but not with the best marks, but enough.

Tyrone Shum:    

Oh, absolutely. I was the same as well. I just went [to] uni[versity] just to tick off the boxes, [because] that's what my parents wanted. I was like, what's the point? 

Jhunette Lopez:  

I was a little bit like that. So I got a bit overwhelmed when I was 19 [years old]. I think it was English—and I thought I would love this subject. I was so overwhelmed [that] I actually took six months off and travelled with a backpack by myself at 19 [years old]. I did summer camp in America—so where you work at a campsite and you've got kids for two months. 

Then I did that. And then I had a visa for Europe as well. So I intended to go for a year, [but] I went for six months because the money dries up very quickly when you're travelling and you're young. 

But then there was a bribe from my parents. They said, 'Get back to uni'. Because all of a sudden, once you've been travelling, you want to be a nomad at that point when you're young and everything is like an ideal. 

I didn't want to get a job. I didn't want to finish uni. My parents bought me a car, and that's what got me to stay. But I think that was a good bribe because at least I got my degree, and that set me straight on the path to be like, 'Oh okay, I'll finish my degree. I'll carry on'. 

Tyrone Shum:    

Yeah, otherwise, I know what would have happened. You would be travelling all the time. 

Jhunette Lopez: 

That's what would have happened. They knew. 

Tyrone Shum:   

So did you need to change the degree to fit into HR?

Jhunette Lopez:  

So yeah, Bachelor of Arts at Sydney University at that time. We were allowed to borrow from the Faculty of Economics. So, that was a sub-part major in HR and a gender studies major. So at least the HR components are on my certificate, [and] like I said, that's what would allow me to get the jobs. 

Tyrone Shum:     

Nyakeya recounted his journey from high school to engineering, highlighting the pivotal role of determination and familial support in shaping his path to success. 

Moses Nyakeya:  

In high school, I started to develop an interest in technology. When I had a chance of coming over [to Australia], I did get into engineering. I did my engineering degree at Wollongong University. Obviously, I knew that this was my path to success, as I [was] told by my parents. You [have] just got to put your foot down and you got to do it, [as] your future is dependent on this. 

So I [made] the effort and eventually completed my degree. I'm sure my parents were very proud of me because they came for my graduation. 

Moses Nyakeya:   

Then I started working, and [later] decided to extend my studies at the University of Technology Sydney, UTS. I [took my] Masters of Engineering there. But of course, at the time, I was actually working. The good thing about that time actually was that my work was actually paying for my school. So that was quite good. You know, doing part-time [studying] while you're working, so you're earning some money, and they're paying for your schools. That's quite nice.

Tyrone Shum:  

That's the best of both worlds. No one wants to pay for uni fees anymore nowadays.

Jhunette Lopez:  

Yeah. 

Moses Nyakeya:    

Exactly.

Tyrone Shum:     

Leaving Australia wasn’t just about seeking a change in scenery; it was a quest for a departure from the conventional HR career path, characterised by what Lopez termed as ‘vanilla trajectory’. 

Jhunette Lopez:  

For me, definitely, and that's what made me want to leave Australia. I don't like describing it like this, but it's a vanilla trajectory career path for an HR professional. So, whilst going to Dubai wasn't about [climbing] up the ladder, it was about exposure and experience, and I definitely got that and [am] still getting that.

The Middle East is such a different landscape and a different playing field, and the UAE as well. You've got to remember the UAE as a country is only 50 years old. For example, [just] two years ago, the Labour Law changed, and that was from 1985. So they're so advanced in some things, but really behind in other things. It's bridging that gap and trying to be the best, but then you've got all these things that are archaic. And so that's what makes it more interesting. 

So, while, like I said, it's not a professional up-the-ladders game that I'm playing there. It's the case of the level of exposure, the level of thinking, the level of adaptability, and resilience—that part I don't know if I'll ever get that in Australia, because Australia is a little bit more predictable from the HR space. It's [focused on] best practice and what's good for the employees. 

Our labour laws there [in the UAE] are pro-employer, not [pro-]employee; we don't deal with unions and we don't deal with unfair dismissal claims. They are far more harder there. 

So, it's been a very different lens that I look at, and hopefully, I can bring that back here, when I'm ready, with just a little bit more depth to what I know and what I can do because of my level of exposure to something a little bit more different. 

Tyrone Shum:    

Delving into the nuances of HR practices in Dubai compared to Australia, Lopez vividly illustrates the absence of best practices and the prevalence of a familial, top-down decision-making culture that often leads to projects crumbling over personal disputes, contrasting starkly with the most structured and procedural approach in Australia. 

Jhunette Lopez:  

The biggest difference [is that] best practices [are] not there because sometimes it feels like businesses [are] still run like a family business. 

So when there's bickering and fighting and how that cascades down, you still feel like a giant business like Emirates if a decision has been made a particular way. So I've seen projects crumble, where they've spent millions because someone wasn't invited to a meeting. That for me still feels like a small, family business that's being spiteful or gets a little bit [like] 'I'm going to dig my heels and not let that proceed'. 

I don't know if Moses has seen that in some of his workplaces, but sometimes it can feel like that. 

Moses Nyakeya:  

Actually, yes. I can corroborate. Individuals can change the trajectory of what you're doing. Like, it could be a big project that people spend millions [on] like the example that Jhunette gave that can change everything. 

Tyrone Shum:    

Wow. That doesn't happen here. If that happened, it'd be big enough [to bring it up] to corporate and then you [end] up negotiating. No way would they allow for that to happen. 

Moses Nyakeya:  

I guess it's also cultural. It's about being in position and power. That's well very highly regarded over there, like the CEO, or the CTO, or the top executive in this company. [They can think] if I feel like something is not aligned [with] my thinking or my preference, then I can say 'No', and I can veto whatever things that have been happening. 

Jhunette Lopez:   

The second part of that too, Tyrone, we call it 'wasta'. So if you've got someone in your pocket who's very influential, you could be just a small player but have a lot of influence because you've got someone in a higher [position] who can manoeuvre things for you. That, for me, still feels like a small-minded type of family business mentality. 

So again, you see changes in decision-making because of that. It's interesting. Like you said, you never get it in Australia, but it's a dynamic landscape that we play in, and we do because, back to Moses' [point], power is top-down; we're just workers at the end of the day. So yeah, our day is very different every day.

Tyrone Shum:    

I could imagine. That's the reason why it's got such a high work culture, because there are so many demands from the top. Whereas here, you know what it's like, especially [the] government, there's a lot of red tape, and you'd be sitting there just waiting for approval from all these people when you know, you get things done, but you can't do anything, because you're still waiting [for] approval. 

Whereas there, you get the work done and you just do do do it. That's the reason why they probably are working. 

Jhunette Lopez:  

Well, look, [here's] another added layer of complexity. So not only [have we got] the power top-down, family-business [mentality] that I've explained, you've [also] got a melting pot of cultures. When they say Australia is so diverse, come to Dubai. The exposure to far more different people [is crazy]. I think at the moment, we've got 102 nationalities in Samsung, and we're only 300 people. So that's practically more than half the world covered, right?

And so when you're dealing with that landscape that I've described on top of different nationalities and the way people work, and their mentalities, a 'yes' means a 'no' depends on how they nodded [or on the case of] 'Did they look you in the eye?', you're navigating through all of that as well. 

And then I work for a Korean company, and they have their specific nuances that have made their particular nuances a little bit more different in the Middle East because it's a different region. That's the stuff that you wade through and navigate through that make[s] your day very interesting but very stressful as well.

Tyrone Shum:     

I can imagine. I could not even just deal with five or six different cultures.

Jhunette Lopez:  

That's why Australia sounds so lovely and vanilla, but I'm just not ready for that because I think I am personally enjoying these murky waters.

Tyrone Shum:    

It sounds like you love the thrill. 

Jhunette Lopez:    

Yeah, I think so. For the time being, yeah.

Jhunette and Moses' story continues in the next episode of Property Investory where they discuss how they explored Sydney’s property market diligently together… 

We used to go every weekend. We [would] drive around Sydney and just go [to] open homes. We just go to inspections, and we ask about the price; we get the brochures. We did it, I think, for almost like two years. 

They emphasise the value of enlisting knowledgeable guides for your property journey. 

We really liked this guy and how he handled the thing until settlement happened. And we were like, 'You know what? This guy, you know, we can use him in the future'. 

The goal they set for themselves before embarking on their Dubai adventure… 

Okay, what do we want to achieve for our portfolio before we go overseas? And of course, I just throw out a number: 10. 

 

And that’s next time on Property Investory.