Welcome, welcome, everybody. It is so great to have you here for another discussion asked, we talk about the intersectionality of Women's Identities. I have again, if you just following us, or you probably you may not know, KC Atha. If you've been following me for a couple years since 2020, you may remember we used to do these regularly on Thursdays was she's back as a guest. Not my partner in crime as much anymore, but we're happy to have you. Hey, KC, how are you doing?
I'm good. I'm so happy to be back in the seat with you. Yes.

Okay. So today we're talking about a really important topic. Oftentimes, when well, first, let before I jump in, because I'm really excited to talk about this topic. I'll have you let the people know a few things about you the DEI work you're in and how did you even get into this space?

Ah, great question. So the D and I work that I do is very much focused on public sector organizations, although I do work with some private organizations. But what I do is work with like minded leaders to bring equity and liberation into the workplace. And we look at that at both the systemic part as well as the individual and intrapersonal parts of it. And internally and externally focused. So looking at culture holistically, and helping folks sort of walk the path together with me to get towards their goals. And how did I come to this work is I this is my second organization and the first organization I had great intentions as a co founder. And there was just some outcomes and things that I saw happening in that first organization. That was not my intention, but did happen. And I thought, You know what, there's some other folks out there like me who have good intentions and aren't getting the results and outcomes that they desire. So that's what I focus on now.

I love it, I love it. Thank you so much for sharing that. So we I do a training on this topic. So of course, this is one of the important topics that I think is often overlooked. And the reason we're talking about is intersectionality of Women's Identities. Oftentimes, women are clumped together. But yet, when you look at different aspects of intersectionality, experiences change, barriers change. And it's really important that to look at it through a different lens. And so we're gonna get into it. So I'm gonna let you kick it off, because you love this topic as well. And so where do you want to start in talking about the intersectionality, of Women's Identities?

Well, I'll just back us up a little bit for folks to know a little bit about us and our history and our perspective and lens on these months. So Women's History Month Black History Month, I have in the past, I will admit, I have felt resistance towards these months, the focus of them for one month, very specifically, because I felt that it was a bit performative. And it really didn't result in any changes. So, Michelle, when you reached out to me and said, Hey, I want to do a series talking about like, how do we actually live into these months that we focused on women or black history? And how do we actually internalize that information and make change and push for, for action. And so that's what got me excited. So that's why I'm excited to be here to even have this conversation. But so I will kick it off by just laying that foundation. And very specifically, I think that when we talk about these broad categories of women, or black folks, I think the intersection intersectionality conversation is just a natural place that my brain goes because especially as a woman who identifies as Latina X, I know that other folks are also Latina, X and identify as black and so or Afro Latino, and oftentimes they feel excluded. And so I think sometimes we need to think about what are some of the other intersections of womanhood of blackness, and that can only serve to help support our actions and how we show up in the world. So, with that in mind, I wanted to talk about three levels. And the first level would be at the individual level, what I would sort of bring to the table in the lens of intersectionality there and then intrapersonal and then at the organizational level. So without further ado, let's jump into that first level of individual level. So I always like to start with the self Know thyself start at home first when we make change. And so the way I help my clients and folks that I work with is to help identify and map our identities An hour privileged in any given situation, it's going to change depending on the situation. So you'll have to sort of build the muscles of understanding a few concepts, which I'm about to dive into. The first concept is dominant and marginalized identity. So what does that mean? So when I say dominant identity, that changes depending on the situation, location, etc. So when and how you identify if you're in the dominant category is do you have privilege? Are you do you have access to power in some way, shape, or form? Are you sort of the norm or the standard, and then when we think about marginalized identities, this group has less privilege, less power, and are not identified as the norm or standard, but rather other. So those are sort of the two categories. And as we just said, intersectionality is not either or we are combination of identities. And so that combination is the third thing that we kind of have to understand, which are what are those categories? The categories such as race, such as sex, such as gender, class, education, language, citizenship, in the workplace, or your full time employee? Are you a contract worker? What is your religion? What is your ability? What? Where in the hierarchy? Are you? What's your tenure? Are you located at HQ? Are you off site? Are you in the field, so there's a lot of different categories where we are going to be the dominant or marginalized identity. And another thing I have to bring up is just because you are dominant identity doesn't mean you're always going to be the majority. So you could be high up in the hierarchy and be dominant identity, but you're the only one in a group that's that high in the hierarchy. So it's not about minority, that's different. Sometimes the minority could be the majority of people, and yet, they're still the marginalized group. So that's another thing that I like to bring up. So that is sort of the first, knowing thyself because before we take action, we got to know who we are, and how we show up in any given situation, that's going to be different. And sometimes we're going to be in the dominant role or position, or sometimes we'll be in the more marginalized position, depending.
Thank you for breaking that I think we often also look at even when you're marginalized, and you're the majority in that space, is also the power, who's who's wielding the power. And it's really, really important to understand that too. When you go through and you look at your identity, where you fall is what is where, where does the power lie? And, and how much. And so it's also important to identify that as you go through that process. So let's, let's go to your next point. I'm excited. 

Yeah, well, I'm the one thing that came up I was just thinking about was also in addition, another category I would bring up that I've been talking about more recently with some clients, because we're practicing how to have difficult conversations and lead diversity, equity inclusion conversations. Another thing that comes up is conflict style. And so I would very specifically say black women have to Historically and traditionally even now have to regulate their emotions so that they're not perceived by the stereotype of the angry black woman. And so that's another thing that came up actually, in my newsfeed. Today, I was reading this and it, it's not fair because we all are human. And we all experience all the range of emotions, but because of that intersection of identity and stereotyping, there is a real and sometimes perceived threat for black women to express that natural emotion of frustration, anger, whatever those unpleasant feelings that we all feel, but because of a certain identity, you're perceived differently are not allowed to feel that way. So that I wanted to give one concrete example as well that was a little fuzzier, but is definitely very, very real. So once we met the identity, I'm going to push us along which that was a kind of a good transition into interpersonal level. So interpersonal level once you've mapped your identity, so for example, I am Latina x, but I am definitely lighter skinned. So we have to understand when we are in proximity to that power of proximity to whiteness, not just skin color, but also how we show up with conflict and our language are accents are not accents, etc. So there's these levels of proximity to power as well. So we may not be the ultimate top pinnacle of the dominant identity, but we may have an increased proximity to it. For example, colorism in this situation that I'm talking about, so once we've mapped herself, we are better positioned to know when and if we have privilege to lend and to offer others and or to ask for support if I'm in the marginalized position. And, and someone I know and trust and like is in a more privileged position. And depending on the situation, I may ask them to lend me their privilege, which I used to do actually with a former roommate of mine, who was a white man. And he, I would often say, Hey, could you lend me your privilege, I'd like to strategically deploy you to do this thing for me. And while I don't think it's fair that I should have to do that, and I don't think it's right that I should have to do that, I also have to decide when and if I'm going to value getting the outcome I want over sort of standing in the moral ethical principles. And so that is that kind of difficult middle ground, sometimes whenever I talk about this with some clients, because folks are aware, that's like, that's not a fair thing to have to do, which is correct. But when we're talking about ally, ship, and interpersonal level of how we can show up, that is, that's what I'm sort of proposing here. So, and whenever I talk about lending our privilege, some people call li chips, some people call co conspirators, or basically asking our, our selves and or someone else to do some sort of discomfort, either at that base level, like, make some change shape, you know, stir the pot a little bit. Also, we may be asking some folks to do a little more like, a strike, right. So sometimes people are willing to put their, their livelihood on the line and strike, or sometimes people are willing to put their life on the line. And that is the ultimate coconspirator type move. And I'm not asking or telling people to do that. But I'm just saying and trying to put it in perspective that the minimum thing that we can do is probably lend our privilege and, and allow some discomfort either within ourselves, or allow ourselves to make other people uncomfortable at the dinner table at the conference room table, at the lunch table, in the meeting, whatever that may be. So that is one thing. So once you're mapped, you're better positioned to lend your privilege or ask for privilege. And then the other thing that I like to talk about at this interpersonal level, is to really practice deep listening, to understand the situation to understand the problem to understand the context before taking action. And so what I talk about is social empathy. So it's one thing to empathize. But it's another thing to empathize and deeply understand the context of and the situation to better connect and support to make change for that person or in this in this sort of situation generally. So those are the two big points that I like to make when I talk about interpersonal level of, of approaching ally ship or making change in this area.

Fake Thank you, KC. For that, I just want to point out very quickly, I dropped something article that I ran across, called Black people are sharing the rules they follow that most white people don't even know about. And this is so important. And I brought this article up, because as you take your power and your privilege, it is important to understand how marginalized people how black people, specifically black women, more specifically for this conversation, navigate and how they prepare to navigate in these white in these white spaces. And so now you understand how they're now because assumption is, Oh, will you do what we do? Know. And so it taking examples like this, now you have some idea of things that you can utilize your power and privilege for to help black women. And it's not always a monolith, right, as as KC said, you know, skin color plays a huge part, then comes hair texture, as well. And then body type plays another function, and then also vernacular. And so they're all of these different things that are in play that come in certain biases. And so it is really important to understand yourself and how you're engaging. And like, I didn't know you were black, you don't see black, like what exactly does that mean? So it's really important, I get some friends that that identify as black. And people often assume they are something other than black. And so it's really important to understand these things as well. So I share that. And now and I read the title of the article output it in. And it's a very long title. It's on Buzzfeed, but it's definitely worthwhile reading to get an idea of how black people move around in spaces that are not typically black.

Yeah, and that brings up another concept that I want to share real quick is The concept of consent. So oftentimes when we find out about injustice or unfairness that happens with other identities that are not our own, um, we potentially could be so upset and want to make change, because it's unfair. And yet, we may not understand that that person doesn't want us to speak up, because we can actually be causing more harm. So I would ask, and I would propose that we get consent from the other person before taking action on their behalf, or against something that we think is unfair, but we don't know how it could negatively impact them. So I would definitely recommend. The other thing is one example that I like to give a concrete example of how to be an ally. Oftentimes, in meetings, I like to share the tool of amplification. And so what happens oftentimes, is that ideas are proposed ideas or thoughts come up in a meeting. And oftentimes, that idea is not given credit to the person who originally said it. So in order to help and be an ally, you could say, Hey, that's a great idea that you added on to that Michelle proposed, right. So it'd be bringing it back, for example, if someone was sort of taking credit for Michelle's idea, or Michelle's original thought has now been built on by other people in the meeting, but now know what everyone's thinking now, John's great idea. But really, Michelle started that whole idea. So I love the concept of amplification. And so when when we are in a space, it is helpful that we could sort of help support the visibility and bringing back the the just credit of many folks perspectives and insights.
Thank you for that. And that is seemingly easy to do. But for whatever reason, it becomes the biggest struggle. And I want to point out something else that that often happens is when you're in meetings, this is especially for white men. Do you realize black people and black women are in those rooms in those spaces? And really think about that, why they're not in there? And how to get them into those spaces into those conversations. And to actually take action on those. And so when we're talking about Amplifying Voices, right, like you're talking about this person, right, you're giving them credit. But why are also aren't they in that space? Right. And so I think it is also giving credit where it's due, but understanding how barriers may have even pushed not only given a credit, but not even having them part of the discussion, and how much how often they're talked over, or not even invited to the discussion, even if they aren't in a room. And so just take on different levels, even though you're giving them credit. Okay, now, how do I get them to the meeting? How do I make sure that they're, they're included in a conversation, making sure they're not cut off somebody else's and steal their idea in the conversation? There are multiple levels to this. And I know we're just getting started. And some of you may like, oh, I give them credit. Okay, great. Now, here's the next step. Right. And so it is a continued process. When you decide to do this work. It's not one and done. So I'll turn it back on.
I've got another idea that came up from that. What's the next step? So I've actually heard some folks saying, just because I have a great idea, my plate is full. And sometimes folks will be like, well, it's your idea. You run with it, you do it. And so I don't think that that's a great practice, because then it's like, well, then I shouldn't bring up great ideas unless I have time and space to do it myself. And I think that kind of squashes things. And I think it's better to say that is a great idea. And where could we find resources and pool resources that are needed for that idea? Versus just say, well, that's your idea. You do it then. So that's another sort of challenge to kind of shift into, okay, great idea, and how can we collectively figure out how to make this happen?

Absolutely. We see it in organization. Building a great to women are really great with building relationships. And being able to delegate and build a great team is also important. And sometimes that skill set isn't there. And so while you may see men pull together people because they see who's doing their work, or doing work in this in this space, how do you then help them build a team and move from doing the work to having great ideas and helping the work get executed? Right? And so those are different skill sets. And so you have to come in and step in for that as well. So I love I love this conversation, obviously. So, but I'll turn it back over to you for the third. All right.
Okay, final part. So after we talked about the individual level map send yourself an interpersonal level of lending that privilege and or asking for someone else's privilege to be lent to you. I would also talk love to talk about the organizational level. And this is more for the folks who are making decisions around what is being done at your organization in that black history month are Women's History Month. And why am I talking to you? Because the first thing that I would recommend for these months is to really anchor in your why, what is it that we're doing this month? And why? So are we highlighting women in black history to celebrate? It's just celebration, and we're gonna eat some foods and talk about culture? Are we also going to build some awareness? And that's it. So celebrate and awareness? Fine, cool, like, but let's be clear about it. Why? Because I think there's a risk that's been happening that some organizations have been experiencing where that why is not clear. And so they're being accused of being performative. Because there's not a shared understanding of what is the purpose of us highlighting this as a month of women or black history? So being very clear about the why, and communicating that why so that folks don't have different expectations, you still may be called in and say, Well, yeah, you've been building awareness and celebrating for years, we want to move into the next level, which may be self setting goals and objectives. But before I move on to goals and objectives, I will say, if you are at that celebration, and just awareness level, that's fine. What I would challenge you and invite you to do as well is to include your organization and your sector, whenever you're looking at Black history. And when you're looking at women's history, or raising awareness, what and how does that history show up and intersect with your sector and your organization. And oftentimes, it's not a history we're very proud of, and you got to own the histories before we can move forward. So that's the first challenge and sort of invitation for organizations that are spending time and energy, sort of highlighting these different months. The second thing is I invite folks, once you've moved past maybe celebration and awareness purposes and goals, I would say goals and objectives of trying to increase black diet, like diversify your staff at the higher levels, not just at the lower levels, that's something that happens a lot. And folks oftentimes say we're really diverse. But then when I look at their org chart, they're very diverse at the most junior levels. And so I think that I would challenge orbs to maybe look at how diverse Are we at the top, and then go down and maybe set some goals in that order, instead of the other order. Starting at the bottom, I would say start at the top instead to diversify at top at the top, and then work your way down to diversify down at the bottom. And if you don't think that you have access to people or a pipeline, that maybe that's one of your goals or objectives, how do I build up a pipeline so that I can know that when we have openings at these top levels? I know that I have a pipeline because I've built relationships, we now have a scholarship, we now have internships and fellows that have, you know, have had access and worked with us, whatever it may be. But why are you doing it? And if it's because you want to diversify them, then let's let's talk about that in the context of the Month celebration, and awareness. But also, what are the vision?

What are the goals of this organization in relation to women in relation to black folks?

And I would just say, when you're making those goals and objectives thinks think about not only the areas of leadership, but also what is our structure look like? What does communications look like? What are the programs look like and policies and practices? How about the vendors that we spend money with? Are they black owned? Are they women owned? Are they black women owned? And is could that be a goal? You know, could we make sure that when we start approving and searching for vendors that that's something that we're interested in, in assessing as as part of alignment with your organization's values and goals? The staffing which we already talked about also partnerships, who are we partnering with? What organizations are we partnering with? what schools are we partnering with? I don't know your sector, but whoever your partners are, how much representation and leadership do you have with women and black folks, and specifically that intersection of black women, right? How could we sort of assess where we are and then work and set goals to increase that? And then finally, so we talked about celebration and awareness level then we talked about goals and objectives level? I think that folks who have already done some of these goals and objectives setting, I think these months are a great time to also highlight and make space for accountability. And what do I mean by that? I mean, sharing out and reporting out progress on those goals and objectives. And what are the iterations that have been made in those? In that work? After we set these goals and objectives? How is it going, what iterations and new learnings have we learned because we're not going to get it perfect, we've been socially conditioned to operate in a way that is status quo and gives us outcomes that are not in alignment with our equity and liberation values. So when we start on our journey, it is going to be imperfect. And I invite us to be in that more lean agile mentality where we build something, we test it out, and we measure it and we iterate according to that, and keep doing that until we continue to get better. And then I invite us to celebrate our successes, not just the big successes, but the small ones, to all of them. All progress is progress, I'd love to see the big progress. And I love to also give us incentives to keep going because this work is ongoing, it doesn't have some final end, because even when we meet our goals and objectives, we still have to uphold them in a society that is not built for this to be sort of the status quo and the norm. So we're always sort of holding back the sort of outside world that isn't conducive to equity and liberation. So that those are sort of the levels of organizational lenses that I would apply to these months of women's history and black history.

Thank you for that. I love that. And again, it is a process. And oftentimes we hear people say, Hey, I'm afraid to fail, I'm going to get it wrong. The assumption is you have it right. In the current state. We don't and so the feedback of I don't want to get it wrong, like you aren't even in a place where you're getting it right now. So so this is a place to learn. And then like you say, take action and lay out that plan. I, I will say this much is you can learn a lot from your employees and asking them questions. The problem that some of these organizations have is number one, you have not you do not have a relationship with your employees, especially those that are marginalized, that they feel as though they can trust you to share experiences, and what's really, really going on. And so sometimes you can bring in a third party, but other times, you're going to have to rely on some basic metrics and data to get the ball rolling. And you're going to have to show that you care by taking action before you have sometimes some immediate data real time data in your in your organization and workplace. And that scares some people like, well, we don't have the money for that. You don't have the money not to in this in this current situation in this current market. In this current time of social justice. I can tell you Gen Z's they are looking mine. And even generations, they're looking and they're watching. And if you're a big brand, medium sized brand, they're going to know and they're going to go back because unfortunately, everything Fortunately, everything I guess is on the web. And so it's really important for you to lay out that plan, you have metrics, and to invest the resources in it, because it's not a short term investment. It is a long term investment for your organization. It is a long term investment. Some of you are in your 40s. And you're like oh it will take us 12 years. I said so you'll be in your 50s it's not the end of the world, it won't stop. And it's really important. You have a starting point, you have a plan. You realize, like a kid, like if you have kids, you're gonna mess up something right? The first one is really hard. That's that first step, that second kid got better use, like, I just let let the kid second kid cry. I was on a call with somebody, they had the first kid, they were driving home after picking them up from daycare. And then the second kid was kind of like, we can't hold you, Honey, we're driving, we're in car and you got to stay in your car seat. And she cried for 20 minutes. So like I don't so so you have to understand you're going to go through some growing pains and it but you can't get to those points of ah, we've gotten to this milestone without you literally putting in the work. And it's really important to have that. So finding that getting that commitment, even if it's a small core group and organization with sufficient budget. And support is really, really key. But you have to show on some level some immediate changes in organization, some intermediate changes in the organization. And what are the long term goals in the organization. Oftentimes pre the murder of George Floyd organizations would not share any of this information or data and that has tremendously hurt you. In the current state more of your sharing that data information. But I can tell your black employees are there at two years, and they haven't seen anything and you haven't shared enough to them, you haven't done enough, because they've been living in this lived experience for 3040 50 years. And so now you're seeing more turnover, and you can't understand why we've made the commitment, but they aren't seeing the action and you aren't sharing enough information. And and so they, they've heard you, they've given you a chance, but they don't see the equity that you said you're pursuing, and that they require in order to stay in those organizations. So we have a comment, a question, how do you navigate data capture for reporting? My logic is that employees self disclose during our share this self disclose during onboarding, then we should be able to analyze and understand leadership transition rate. However, we are told that this is somehow not possible, because it's violating laws violating right, please understand how some companies can publish benchmarks and some can't. Some companies won't publish benchmarks because they don't want to period. There are very few instances when they cannot publish that benchmark. There are some things like that are ADHD, HIPAA compliant, things that I should say that companies can't.

It's illegal for them to have that information or share that information outside of that employees needs. What I found, though, sure, is that companies would rather say for compensate for competitive sakes, we won't share that data. And it's really to the point where in, they're just hiding their lack of diversity, their lack of inclusion and belonging, and willing to take the hit publicly, by disclosing that information. Let me tell you, let me tell them a secret that they don't know that we know we talk about you already. We don't apply. We don't do interviews with you. Because we've already gone and talk to the last black person let go that didn't get hired, that was only asked for their their data, so you can show that you are compliant. We talk about this all the time, we talk about you all the time on social media, in our social social circles, the only people you're hiding this data from is other white people in the organization who think you're actually doing the work. every black person out organization, every Hispanic person, that organization, every Latino, every Asian person or organization, or know what's going on. You're the only ones who think you're actually hiding something. And so what we're doing here at positive higher, is we actually have benchmarks for organizations. Because for fake for meta, it's called meta now. And Google, there's like, oh, well, Facebook had or meta has 1.2% black women, and we have 1.3. So we're good. No, you're not. You're comparing poor practices to poor practices. When you look at a true capacity, which could be 4%, guess what, then you're like, Oh, we shouldn't show this data, because now it's competitive. Now, we just show it to prove that you are underperforming it, you need to change things in your organization. So sometimes Shurl organizations won't do it. And so you have to find a way or find somebody that's offering you built a bitch market benchmarks for your industry. And then there's pushback on that. And so be when you do get the benchmark, let me tell you, some way organizations will hide this information as well. Is there a roll up bipoc Your Roll everybody of color that is not white, it to bipoc but then when you break down by PA, they're black is less than 1%, or Hispanic is less than 1%. And that 80% or 8% is show or Asian and they're gonna end a will try to also roll in people that are international, not necessarily US citizens, right. Then the other game they will play is in a job types and titles and they will definitely mix those up. So what are considered professional roles and what are considered blue collar roles or white cup, they will mix those up. So the numbers look a certain way. And so it is very, very important that you ask questions. They they may look at you like Why are you pushing this because, you know, the reality is they're hiding that data and they don't Want to see as they truly are, which is not diverse, not inclusive, not equitable, definitely not creating a place of belonging by hiding those numbers and they don't want to take action, this is what I say to this for some of those places, please continue to be that way and this is why you will lose in the end, number one, number two, you did not bother myself, you did not bother KC, you did not bother Shirl in, in doing performative work. Not even like doing a call with you not doing a presentation on how we can help you solve your problem not coming in even doing a contract because you're going to try to lowball us. It is really going to piss us off. And even if we do accept the contract, not even doing the work, do not waste our times. So continue to be that way. Let us go help the people that actually want to do this work that are actually doing the work. And those employees that you decided we're not for your play, your place of employment will go there. And they will grow great careers help impact positively impact those organizations while yours will stay at the status quo. Things change, you will become an a&p and not a Trader Joe's. That's all I have. Okay, KC, I'm gonna get off my soapbox now. But you know how I do?

I have a couple of thoughts on that. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Sometimes it could feel difficult, or you're unsure if you can or should collect some identity data, some alternatives to that if you don't want to do it, or have been told you can't I think you could continue to do climate assessments and hire an outside person to do a climate assessment to see the perceived experience of your staff. And that's done through surveys, interviews, focus groups, and document review, just just kind of see what's happening in the organization. And then also, I would look at, you know, your hiring rates and promotion pathways, how clear are they? How are they how well are they understood? What is the climate around that oftentimes folks will say, I don't even know how to get promoted, I don't know when and how to get that raise. I don't know what my colleagues make. So you know, what, what are the salary bands are their salary bands, and a lot of times staff are just piecing those together, because an organization started implementing salary bands. And so now they just look at the new job postings, but they don't know what they make, or what their colleagues made before the salary bands were made. So I think sometimes, you know, just clarifying that and looking at that internally, and then correcting it, if people are outside of those salary bands, bring them up into it. And I would probably give them more or a bonus, or what, you know, some something because they missed out on that salary for however long that that seller abandoned exists, and they were already underpaid. So I think the just correct thing to do would not only to raise their salary, but also back pay them for what they weren't paid in some way, shape or form. Also, in addition to that, I think I would double click double, I would underline and bold, what Michelle said. And I would absolutely continue to say benchmark against yourself, not against the failed status quo of other people in your sector. That is not helpful. And the final thing that I will say just this has been coming up, and I've been talking to more of my clients around this is compensation benchmark marking is wonderful to stay competitive in your sector. I also don't want that to be convoluted with a living wage. So oftentimes, I will recommend to organizations to make sure that not only are you competitive and doing compensation benchmarking to be to be competitive and get, you know, the best possible stuff. Also look at raising the floor of that living wage. And that's a different process that's looking at a living wage calculator for the location in which people live and also the value that they're bringing to the organization and making a calculation of like at a minimum. This is what it takes to live in Washington, DC, New York City, Los Angeles, wherever, as an individual and I always like to recommend not only as one single individual but with one dependent. And that to me is a living wage for one person. So that's it. Those are the thoughts that came up for me. Thanks.

Thank you for that. I had so many things about the living wage and number one, if I would love to know if you're in the chat if you're watching this even if it's on the replay if you're on the podcast. Message me tweet me DM me if your current employer is given you or your employer or your co workers, just the workplace, an increase in your pay because of inflation, I'm looking for something, right? Because it's real. And companies like, oh, we aren't prepared, some of these larger companies are making really great profits right now. Now, I'm not talking about generating revenue, but profits, and alcohol, like, we can't possibly give everybody a 7% increase in match inflation. And I'm looking at your money, like, really maybe I'm doing your math wrong, but I'm just looking like, Okay, so see, see how that goes. Because some people are going to quit, to make more money just to cover inflation. So you have to figure out what you're going to end up paying. Either way, you can pay the people that are there that know your systems, processes and culture, or you're going to bring in new people to learn your system processes and culture. And you're going to pay them more than inflation. So you really, really think about that as well. So KC, I will let you do a wrap up. And then we will get out of here.

All right from the top, inviting you all to map yourself and your identity and your privileges. Depending on your dominant identity or marginalized identity. In any given situation, it always changes. So practice building those muscles of sort of understanding where you are. And then the categories of race, gender, class, education, language, contract worker, not religion, ability, hierarchy, tenure, all of those goodies, then the second one was intrapersonal level. Once you've mapped your identity, and can do that fluidly in different situations, then you're more, you're better positioned to be able to lend your privilege and or ask for someone to lend you their privilege to get what it is that you want, and need and deserve. And I would also remind folks to do deep listening to understand before taking action, because a lot of times when we're in the dominant identity, we think we understand the problem before we listen. So listen, before we take action, ask for consent, before taking action on behalf of someone else, because we've may unintentionally cause them harm or put them in a place of discomfort or fear for because of retaliation and other concerns that may be there. And then finally, at the organizational level really root down in your why why are we celebrating Women's History or Black History Month is it to celebrate and to raise awareness about culture. If that is then the challenge for you is to also look at the history of women and black folks in your organization specifically, and in your sector, even if it's uncomfortable, even if it makes you feel ashamed. That is some sort of rooting down in the y we want to make change, which is the next level of setting goals and objectives in those months that pertain to women that pertain to black folks in your organization. And articulating what is that vision? What are our goals? And how are we tying that into how we show up in the areas of leadership structure communications, policies, programs, vendors, staffing, partnerships, all of that pipeline work. And then finally, accountability, use those months to report out on the progress you're making on those goals and objectives also on the iterations that you're making, because we know we're not perfect, because we know that we're trailblazing and trying to do things in a different way. So iterations are going to be necessary and celebrate your successes big and small. Because we do need to know that we are making progress and that it's worth it. So when we see signs of success, it helps us reinvigorate our desire to go through sometimes some of these painful sort of changes in evolution. It's not always fun. It doesn't always feel good to do this work because we're we're going against status quo and that status quo is difficult sometimes to push up against. So let's do this work collectively. And let's celebrate the successes along the way.

Thank you, KC so much for that. Everybody. Be sure you connect with KC here. That's the letter K, the letter C. Atha, on LinkedIn. It is so fantabulous to have you back. We're gonna have to do this again real soon. So until then everybody, this is the equity pursuit. I will be on here about every two weeks sharing different actions, why management can take in organizations to bring equity to marginalized employees and really bring change. Don't talk about it, be about it. And we will see you in a couple of weeks. Bye, everybody.