[00:00:01] spk_1: Welcome to the seller roundtable e commerce coaching and [00:00:04] spk_0: business strategies with and er not and amy [00:00:07] spk_1: Wiis. Yeah, I love that because so I I love that. I call it a trick but it's it's you know, it's fairly commonly used for marketers but a lot of people probably don't use it exactly what you said, you know, pay for cheap clicks from google because the intent is there pixel them when they come to your website and then you can retarget them, right? So then you can retarget them not only in google but facebook um and then really uh you know, dial it in what people don't realize is, you know, just like amazon with the amazon's PPC algorithms, you know, both facebook and google have their own where it really takes some time to go through that data for their ai to figure out what's working, what's not working. And then generally it doesn't always happen. I've run tons of campaigns where this isn't the case. Generally though, the longer you let it run, the better it performs, right? Because every new data point that google or facebook gets, they go, oh, okay. So the dog lover, the dog lovers don't look like they're actually converting very, very well uh, anymore, but oh, these Cat lovers, oh, these are the ones that are converting, you know, so we're gonna divert some of the budget away from that to um, you know, to the cat lovers and you know, just for example, but um, a lot of people don't realize now that with, you know, before even just like what is a year or two ago before facebook and google had these kind of set ups in place, you had to do so much. Uh, it's almost like we're PBC on amazon is right now, right? There's so much babysitting, you used to have to do it to go in and be like oh well I'm gonna disable you know men from 25 to 35 because they're not converting so I don't want to show them that you know this is all stuff that you used to have to do manually, whereas now on both facebook and google if you're doing a conversion or lead um you know some kind of uh conversion tracking that they automatically take all this data, you know time of day. Um You know uh male or female age likes dislikes, even political preference like all these different data points that they can squeeze out of you. Um and then and then target you know target ads uh to people who actually want to see and and who will convert. So ah that's a great tip. Ah Yeah so right now you know once again we always like to ask, you know today if you were to spin up, I don't know if you're still selling on amazon, if you were to spin up uh you know a campaign for say a client, what would you do? Um to get more attraction for your uh your brand new uh amazon products um like what what kind of funnel would you, would you set up personally? [00:02:45] spk_0: All right, give me more details because there's like seven types of amazon seller goals using facebook ads. So I knew [00:02:52] spk_1: forgive us the most basic though that you know because a lot of our audience or people just starting out or you know, kind of uh you know, not super advanced. [00:03:00] spk_0: Yeah, well I say that in two ways just because like how my mind is going, where one, even some beginners are like not using their best skills and they're kind of like trying to force learn it and maybe they're better on, I don't know, like product development and innovation and kind of like doing things. They're more like starting things and not, they shouldn't be really running facebook ads. They may just want to find all kinds of like marketing partners where then you run facebook ads and your audience is already like thousands of people. So you have to find like maybe you're like brand just find similar categories or people um in ways where and like you don't have to be like an investor, you just have to be a partner that connects marketing and like your product with marketing channels and then you run facebook ads or anything you do is it's gonna be more effective because you have a bigger audience, more data. That's kind of morphological partnership side. And I think some people get excited about that because they're like, oh I want, I'd rather do that for my brand, spend time doing that and then whoever is running ads on my team or than if I run ads, there's gonna be more effective. So that's kind of like a caveat more. Like I didn't think of that before. Like when I was running like, you know, a couple years facebook ads, I would just like getting facebook ads and start running facebook ads. But now I know well actually let me find a marketing, like another page or a brand that's not a competitor but in the same niche where we can leverage data or ad spend. Uh So so that's that first answer for those people that want to get distracted with that. But if you're running a facebook ad and it's a it's a beginner ad and most likely let's say you don't have a website or another channel where like, like even like many chatty there's like a bunch of tools. It's very simple to like set up. But let's say you're not doing any of that. It's like you have amazon listing and you created a facebook ad account. Um So within here two parts one set your expectations that it's okay to fail and learn because you're not gonna get like a return of three on your first ad. So like just set that expectation that you're gonna learn and then you're going to iterate the second time. But to increase your chance of success, let's say some people right away sellers run ads and it works right away. This would be test the most variety on the creative side because if you change anything on facebook, like there's targeting who you're targeting, like what your offer is. There's so many things you could test, A lot of those things are kind of like optimizations, it's like 10% increase, like maybe 22 X increase. But the creatives is the one that is going to be like the two X 10 X. Like the big differences in the creative just visually, because again, we're talking about the facebook algorithm, you need to drive your cause down from $4 per click to 75 cents per click. And once you're like on that acceptable range, then you optimize where maybe it's not necessarily better going from 75 cents per click to 60 cents per click because it turns into like click batey ads and then it's like lower quality audience. But we're talking about the difference between a $4 click and the $1 click. That's creatives will do that for you. So that's the first step. Just have force yourself to have as many variations as possible of your creative. Even if it's to make sure there are two opposite things. It's not like if you have pet products where it's like the same, the same cat standing to like the same like later and then has like some of the supplies there and it's like just a different angle and it's like almost the same thing. Your click through rate is going to be like 1.5 or 1.3 And you're gonna be all right. The 1.5 is better. I'm gonna go with that. Like no, have that totally different type of cat, totally different type of contrast between like what's in the background. So even if it's as simple as two images and your creative make them as opposite or as extreme differences as possible. So that would be like the beginner tip, which is actually advanced because most volcanoes don't even do that. They're just starting off kind of like simpler, like all right. I'm gonna actually go with three ads but they're like very similar and they're kind of looking like the amazon photos which also uh usually doesn't work in facebook ads. Like they would as a retargeting ad but not as the first add. It should be. Uh huh Like almost cliche, but it's just like more about the lifestyle or the problem or the solution or just getting the right audience to engage with your ad to affect the facebook algorithm. [00:07:25] spk_1: Yeah, I think uh that that's a huge point and I feel like, you know, it's just like, like anything right, if you're lazy on this stuff then it's you're not gonna do very well. Um New types of ads are brilliant and you know, spend the time to spin up a few more, you know, if you're using canvas, it's super easy to just change the add up really quickly. Um The other cool thing is, you know, something that I learned a long time ago, that that's super simple, but also can work fairly well just changing the background color, right? Like I remember one time I was doing an ad and I did like hot pink and I was like their, you know, I did like hot pink, blue green, you know, all these different backgrounds and the hot pink 11 you know, it was uh, you know, for conversions and things, but people don't even think about like just changing the background literally takes you, You can, you can go into Canada change the background 10 times export that And you know, tens, a little, probably a little too much these days because you're gonna spread your budget thin depending on how much you have, but maybe 3-5. Um, and with, with that you'll get, you know, a winner after a while. Okay, this one's definitely performing better. This one's getting me more conversions. Sometimes you'll get ones that you'll get more clicks, but less conversions and you're like, wait, it's just a colour. But you know, we're animals and we react to, you know, colors, shapes, smells, you know, all these basic human senses. So, you know, if just changing the color, you know, if you want to be semi lazy, you know, if you're gonna spin up multiple ads and you're too lazy to like, like you were saying, just, you know, change the scene then at least try to change the background. You'd be surprised that can even make a huge difference. [00:08:57] spk_0: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And uh, so I actually group that kind of like a middle level optimization me and there's like micro and macro test that's like in the middle where um, it's a major one, but it's visual, you know, it's not like changing one word or like a little icon somewhere like the whole color, It could have a massive effect. So it's kind of in the, in the middle where another example would be more like the macro level changes uh, where it is like a totally different scene, but it doesn't have to take more epic. We're like, all right. And another photo shoot to come up with that with a different image. Just try this. It's whatever image you have. Um, just Zoom in like 90 meaning or zoom out like 90%. Not just like capsule, let's say. Whoever can see like the zoom videos, let's say for all of us where you know, like where in the center like whatever the sizes are. And then I'm not talking about where it's just a little bit more like a little bit more like the images more or out. I'm talking about where it's like totally different where whatever is the point of the image, you know, like the cat or the like or the product where it's like weighs them. Then what? It's like, wait, it's like a cat but it's like totally different. So that's a macro optimization. But it's more than just like changing the color. It's a little bit where it changes the style of the photo. So those are talking about me with all this cat talk. Wait, [00:10:20] spk_1: luckily Amy you have kids so we can, you know, you can't be a crazy cat lady, you're married and you have Children. So you know, only from what, from my understanding to be a quote unquote official crazy cat lady. You you have to be, you just have to have yourself and cats in the house. So uh let's let's not just put ladies in there. You know, there's crazy cat men as well. Let's, let's be real. I like [00:10:42] spk_0: it. I like the examples [00:10:44] spk_1: though, as [00:10:45] spk_0: long as the cat is cute, the internet will love it, [00:10:48] spk_1: right? Exactly. Should [00:10:49] spk_0: use cats in all of your [00:10:51] spk_1: ads. Uh and I used to be, I used to be very anti cat until we got our last two. So, um anyway, we're getting off the rails here. So yeah, [00:11:03] spk_0: it was distracted. [00:11:04] spk_1: No, no, it's all good. [00:11:06] spk_0: Let me give you one more thing. And this is a totally related on the topic and I like to stay kind of like tactical and also strategy. So it's almost like a hack where even let's say you're selling like kitchen supplies or something else. Like you could have a cat somewhere in the picture and overlap interest targeting like cat related things. So it's kind of you can like combine things that cuts your audience size. But also um this is a good uh for for beginners to kind of have like a low hanging fruit and it's a little bit strategic where uh hard to scale this. But it kind of gives you a win to improve your click through rate or at least your you're targeting is more important or just a little bit better targeted. [00:11:49] spk_1: Yeah absolutely. So if you look at it from my my mind which is very S. E. O. Driven, right? You can look at that, it's kind of like visual sc. Oh right. Like if you're putting in exactly like you have said, like, you know, people who are cooking with a pet, you know, you're you're selling a product or cooking product or vice versa, but you're targeting those two, you know, those two groups uh you know all of a sudden now you've got this this interest group who is now interested in both things, even though you're only selling one out of two things. Absolutely brilliant. I love that. Um And and once again, this is what's, so this is why I love doing advertising right? It's like one of my favorite things to do minus paying all the money that I have to and I do all these to all this testing. But I mean there's so there's literally like minuscule and that's why I like if you guys, you know, I've never had like lead pages, click funnels, something like that. Even on Wordpress, you can do it pretty easily. Now, there's a bunch of different plug ins that are free, but uh you know, a B testing if you aren't aren't familiar with that, you know, it's just testing. Uh and I've done a lot of websites, right? As as somebody who's creating SAS uh, you know, software online, you know, just changing the color of the of a button, you would be so surprised how big of a difference that can make. And with a B testing your ads, like, by making multiple ads, you're in essence doing a B testing. You're just doing it at a much larger scale and getting results really quickly because you're paying for that traffic quote, unquote traffic to whatever it is you're selling. But um you know, that, that's, you know, it goes back once again to the 80 20 rule, right? Like if you do 10 ads out of those 10 adds two of those ads are going to perform much better than the than the other eight, right? So um I absolutely love turning dials here guys, if you're afraid to spend too much money uh you know, on facebook or even google ads, um I always like to say you got to get your hands dirty, right? Like you can, you can watch 1000 youtube videos on how to how to do youtube ads, but until you actually get in there and start creating ah there's gonna be a lot of things that you you don't get from it. Um But you know, even if you're setting like a couple of dollars a day as your budget and super low bids just to figure out what you're doing uh like you have talked about earlier, you have to just build that into your mindset. But like this is my research. Like I'm paying for educating myself on facebook ads on on, you know, google ads on Pinterest ads on youtube videos on, you know, graphics on, you know, so many. I mean, honestly nowadays with with candle like you should not have to hire anyone to do graphic design these days, Right? I mean for an ad, like, I mean you can not saying you don't, but you can really do a lot of this stuff yourself, do a lot of testing yourself and dive in and kind of teach yourself how to do these things, which to me is is a lot of fun. All right. You have before, before we ah before we send you off. I I'm gonna be selfish because I always like to do this uh, you know, selfish thing. So, uh as the software side of me, right? Which is which is my my main passion uh your software guy to what what what are you working on for 2021? Without giving us, you know the secret uh you know, without showing us the stealth, The stealth fighter that you've got, you know in skunk works right now. Well what are you working on and what can you share with us in terms of, you know, your data driven mind? Like what what kind of data points are you looking at in 2021 to kind of form strategies? [00:15:12] spk_0: Yeah, two parts one is kind of like innovating and it may not like lead to anything, but I think it's something I've been trying to do over the past year is geo rank related. But building in automation is where there's like a lot of things we've learned. And so question comes up like so does inventory affect your ranking like this and that? And it's like always like a maybe for a lot of brands, it does for a lot of brands, it doesn't, it's hard to find patterns but we know that like badges are appearing regionally, all of these factors that especially since like around well like uh basically in the past six months amazon is like rolling out these things where it seems like regional is having a bigger, bigger factor like FB FB M. So there's like all of these regional things. But building in automation is where there's actually metrics behind what it means to have regional differences. So it's kind of like what is the strength of the effect of certain badges only appearing somewhere And maybe or maybe not you can affect it yet, or you can affect badges being only in certain regions on the actual sales volume. And then the automation side of that is well. And then and an automatic facebook ad has created targeting only certain regions based on either aggressive factors or depending on like the strategy. So it's kind of like a automation facebook ads part built into like the whole geo rank idea, so it's kind of there and And it's still one of those things where it may be only relevant to like .1 brands but uh like I don't care about that, I want to do it and then find out. And then the other part which I think is I'm actually more excited about because it kind of fits into what I've been doing for the past couple of years is building out as many metrics as possible that have that have something to do with funnels and customer journeys for amazon brands, But bridging off amazon into that. And that simply means that like I already have some of this data but there's like so so many ways to go with it. It's like like the customer lifetime value can be broken down into like seven different categories. What it means, It's like who buy something in the same transaction in the future transaction, uh same type of product, different types of products. Is that on the actual subscribe and save or not or they're just a repeat customer but not, there's like so many ways of defining LTV but we don't know any of that is amazon. They're like well we do like brand analytics and you can track it and do all of that. So I'm basically working on all kinds of like ways of like dashboards and and analytics of providing that. But bringing in like off amazon data into that. So it's kind of like this e commerce approach into amazon data. So that's uh that that's been in the works and I think it's kind of, it gives like a full mark, better marketing picture to amazon sellers, especially the ones that want to diversify off of amazon to make amazon more effective or to kind of like protect themselves with other strategies as well. [00:18:08] spk_1: Yeah, absolutely. And and I feel like, you know, the world is not getting any more common 2021. So right now diversification is huge. Um I know for me, asset wise I'm getting very diversified right now with you know what I own and what I'm investing in. Um uh so that that's great advice. Um I always like to ask, ask this you have because you know, you know me, I'm always a you know, fiend for learning. Are you listening to any podcasts, audiobooks, reading anything like what what are you digging into right now in terms of, of learning? [00:18:43] spk_0: Yeah man uh we're talking about clubhouse earlier that I'm not on it. Uh just having a 2nd 2nd baby this year and moving to California this year, it's kind of like where there's no time for anything barely for myself. But but if I do it's actually, it's more like stuff that's not marketing related to kind of like stretch my reality to know how can I then apply what I'm learning into execute Because I feel like a lot of us know about, alright, well there's writing the amazon ran or running facebook ads, you can learn like tactics but can I totally change my approach by learning something about like philosophy or something like that? Or there's like philosophical sciences or like consciousness related sciences of how different disciplines like change where you learn across discipline. So it's more like stuff like that where it's kind of like fun stuff that maybe theory but you see like different studies were like oh actually perfect for entrepreneurship or marketing. How does that apply? So I think it's that less on like podcasts on marketing. I'm like not in the past year and maybe because of well that's time with family stuff. [00:19:50] spk_1: Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah I know how that is. I have three f. So you know after after the second one you know everyone told me oh number three is no big deal. They lied. They absolutely lied. Just like they lied when they said O. T. Is not that much harder than one. That was also a blatant lie. That being said as I always say Children are the hardest and best thing in the world. I also tell people and they're like, oh well, how many, like do I tell people? Yeah, I have multiple businesses, like, well, how many do you have? I'm like, well I have my amazon business, my software businesses and then each one of my Children is the equivalent of two businesses, so I'm pretty much working like 10 jobs. So you know, because my wife works as well. So uh yeah, so it's uh it's crazy, but it is a fun journey and uh I love uh you know, taking the parenting and putting it into play in terms of like, you know, grinding, you gotta grind. But once again, my big focus is, and you have, I have a feeling that you are similar to me and Amy in terms of like, you know, the, the shiny object syndrome. So for me, the one thing, if you, if you haven't read that yet, you know, audio book wise has been super helpful for me. Um just to, you know, really start breaking things down, chunking it, really being like okay, you know this week I wanted to do google ads, I wanted to conversion tracking, atlantic, all this stuff, it's like, no dude, like this week I'm gonna do, you know advertising whether, you know, and in that advertising I'm gonna work on my google ads and in my google ads I'm going to work on my act like you have to super break it, you know, focus focus down in like, you know everyday pick one major thing that has to get done and then go from there and then and once when then every week, like one major thing that has to get done. Uh you know, I used to do the three, you know I called it the rule of three where I was doing three of that. But like once I started listening to the book and really uh you know thinking about it more, one thing always is more than one thing, right? So if you focus on one thing it's always gonna gonna be more, but that's been super helpful for me. Um Anyway you have as usual. Really great to have you on. Thank you so much. Let people know where they can find you and where they can find your software uh and all that fun stuff. And what one of these days maybe at a conference, you know we can get back together again, I can buy you a beer. Uh huh. [00:22:11] spk_0: For sure. Yeah, I'm just on facebook is the best. Uh At least now I still want to be on facebook, so I just search my name there or linkedin or go to zone tracker ads dot com. [00:22:23] spk_1: Alright. Yeah. Thank you so much. And uh if you guys haven't done so yet please review subscribe to the seller roundtable. We really appreciate you guys doing that. Um As you can see we do this live every Tuesday one PM pacific time. Uh If you jump in with us here you get to ask uh people experts uh extraordinary like you have questions uh in the in the zoom. So if you guys want to join us live, we really love to have you because we can ask ah you guys can ask questions as we're doing the interview. So thank you so much guys and we'll see you next time on the seller roundtable. Thank you. [00:22:59] spk_0: Thanks for tuning in, join us every Tuesday at one PM pacific standard [00:23:03] spk_1: time for live Q. And A. And bonus content after [00:23:06] spk_0: the recording at cellar Round table [00:23:08] spk_1: dot com, sponsored by [00:23:10] spk_0: the ultimate software tool for amazon sales [00:23:12] spk_1: and growth seller [00:23:13] spk_0: s c o dot com and amazing [00:23:15] spk_1: at home dot com.