Safety Consultant with Sheldon Primus
March 1, 2021
In this week's episode, Sheldon talks with the COO of the international cerification body, NEBOSH. Dee speaks about her path to NEBOSH, the goals of the organization, how COVID-19 protocols lead to changes with the company and many other things. Degree: NEBOSH National Diploma in Occupational Health and Safety Certificate of Continuing Education Principles and Practice of Assessment studying for Masters in Education with Cambridge University Affiliation: Chartered Safety and Health Practitioner of IOSH Member of IIRSM Fellow of the Chartered Institute of Educational Assessors Speaker Biography NEBOSH’s Chief Operating Officer, Dee Arp is a Chartered Safety and Health Practitioner of IOSH and a Fellow of the Chartered Institute of Educational Assessors. Dee moved into occupational health and safety 20 years ago whilst working at The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA). After becoming a qualified health and safety practitioner; she taught on a wide range of courses and worked with several boards to implement safety governance. Prior to joining NEBOSH; Dee held the roles of Course Developer and Head of Occupational Safety for RoSPA. As NEBOSH’s Chief Operating Officer Dee has responsibility for providing leadership on all matters relating to qualification development and assessment of NEBOSH qualifications and compliance matters, including learning partner accreditation. Dee previously studied with Cambridge University for the Certificate of Continuing Education (Principles and Practice of Assessment) and is now undertaking further study with Cambridge University for a Masters in Education.
Keywords: NEBOSH, IOSH, UK, RoSPA, Cambridge University, Safety and Health, Safety, EHS, Safety FM, Safety Consultant, Government, Consultant, OSHA, Compliance, Instructional Design, Partnership, COVID-19, Lockdown, UN, OSHA Regulations, EU, Sheldon Primus, Dee Arp

[00:00:00] spk_1: Mm.

[00:00:02] spk_0: This

[00:00:05] spk_1: episode is powered by Safety FM.

[00:00:14] spk_0: Welcome to the safety consultant podcast. I'm your host, Shelling Primus. Mr Podcast, where I teach you the business of being a safety consultant. And this week we talked to Nimbus is chief operating officer DRP, who's a chartered safety and health practitioner for the Institute of Occupational Safety and Health, NIOSH and a fellow of the Chartered Institute of Educational Assessors. D moved into the Occupational Health and Safety 20 years ago whilst working with the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents. After becoming a qualified health and safety practitioner, she taught a wide range of courses and worked with several boards to implement safety governance. Prior to joining the body had roles as a course developer ahead of occupational safety for Spock and as knee bows. Chief Operating Officer D has a responsibility for providing leadership on all matters relating to qualification of development and assessment of nimbus qualifications and compliance matters, including learning partner accreditation. He previously worked with Cambridge University for the Certificate of Continuing Continuing Education Principles and Practices of Assessment, and is now undertaking further studying with Cambridge University for a master's in education. Awesome as your street in her bio because you guys need to know deed like I have. And truly it is my pleasure. We had such a wonderful conversation. Uh, we met during a It was a global event, and I've worked with this group before, and they're called globally H and s professionals. He was one of the speakers there. I was actually helping. I was one of the hosts. I was using one of the services that I do use to help people host events. So I was I was to host. This time I was behind the scenes guy hosting the event. So it was kind of cool getting to know her, and truly, I felt like I really, really, really needed to get to understand her a little bit better. So what I ended up doing was asking her to join on the show. And she just so graciously did it. And it's been like it was really cool. I I truly, truly, truly enjoyed this one. So, uh, we talked about just about everything regarding my bash. I needed to really understand that a little bit better because I wanted to be international, and I am an international company. However, when I do work, it's usually in the Caribbean, and I've heard a lot of people talking about the Bosch, and I knew I needed to get their certification. So I said, Let me see if we could work this out and D was so gracious to be on air with me. So this was great. And, uh, I got a good understanding of how you know as me as being a instructional designer and also thinking of There's some courses I might want to see if I could get me about certification in And she got my mind kind of thinking and giving me the process. I had to do it and telling me all the importance of all the different degrees certifications that they have. So I was really intrigued and getting that little taste. Then I got from D, and it was just wonderful for me to just get that understanding of how I need to, uh, it's almost like a pathway to get into the international market, and I'm gonna do it. I'm going to do it. So you look for those initials on the back of my name coming in pretty soon coming from the the neb A certification, uh, family. But either way, we had a wonderful time. I like to think so. We Godwin, uh, Goodwin. Sorry, Zoe. Think so. We for for putting this all together. So he is the head of marketing, and it feels really good. Just kind of appreciate that. So, uh, I am going to go straight into this one, so we're not going to have a commercial in between me and D. So you're just gonna hear her start up with her introduction, But after this, there won't be a tip of the week. Um, kind of like phasing that out. I don't know if you guys really want it back. Then email me at Children at sheldon primers dot com and, uh, and I'll go ahead and work that one, but I just really want you guys to enjoy the conversation ahead with D. And truly, Hopefully it's gonna spark things for you to go ahead and and get behind me, Bosch and and see if you can get certified or accredited through them. All right. So I won't hear you after this. You're just going to hear after these, uh, sign off. You're going to hear our music leading us out. So I'm going to tell you what I always tell you.

[00:05:20] spk_1: Go

[00:05:21] spk_0: get them.

[00:05:22] spk_1: But in my name's D R. And I'm the chief operating officer at the Bosch. That's the National Examination Board for Occupational Safety and Health.

[00:05:33] spk_0: Excellent. And nobody has been all for me. It's just been like a truly It's an enigma. Uh, I've seen him around. I see the knee about certification and and I'm kind of thinking, all right, is this hybrid of college courses and then also a certificate where you, uh you get your different courses because you guys offer masters as well. Correct.

[00:06:02] spk_1: We do, Sheldon. Yes. So we're historically an awarding body. So we accredit learning partners around the globe 48 countries and and and the U. K. We credit those learning partners to deliver our courses and qualifications. And for the Masters, we partner with the university to deliver that level of qualification as well.

[00:06:24] spk_0: Wow. And I was doing the time of one of your guidance documents basically gives an allotment for how much time you should a lot in hours for classroom time, versus time for practical. And then I'm thinking, Well, if I'm doing the math right, Uh, and you're doing this part time, maybe upwards, to 10 to 15 hours in a week, even up to 20 hours in a week. You're really looking for most certifications as a six month, six months to a year commitment? Almost. Am I right in my math there?

[00:06:59] spk_1: I think that's a good approximation, Sheldon, depending which qualification you're doing and which level at least that time, maybe for our diploma level qualifications, which would be the benchmark for health and safety professional. Some of our learners do that even over two or three years to stage out the assessment to stage out that the learning as well.

[00:07:23] spk_0: Excellent. Excellent. How'd you get here? What's your path from your career? What led you to serving in this way?

[00:07:33] spk_1: That's that's a great question, I think. Like many health and safety professionals, it's not where I started or where I set my intentions for a career. It was kind of a weebly wobbly journey, if you like. So my background is actually engineering. That's specifically so. I did a convention with the local authority in the and after four years of being in different department. I guess the liquid safety started then. But that was in the accident investigation and prevention team. But that was specifically for road traffic accident. So in that team we were responsible for investigating traffic accidents. But from the point of view of the highway infrastructure to see if there was any contributing factors, any causal factors that we could change in the infrastructure to stop the accidents happening again, part of my training in that role involved attending a roster. Of course, that's both Society for the Prevention of Accidents. And that was a two week residential course. And that began what has been a career long relationship with Ross for, uh, and on completion of that course, I was very honored to be asked back to tutor on that course. And when a permanent role came up at Ross for a few years later, it was a natural progression for me to leave the local authority I was working with and take up that position with Ross, for that was a role as technical manager, so it was still very much on the road safety side of things and then roster began what was an incredibly important piece of work on managing occupational road risk. So this was led by a wonderful man called Roger Buildings, who recognized that there was a real need to move the management of occupational road risk into the occupational health and safety space to be managed as an occupational risk. So they didn't have anybody in the training department at that time that had road safety background. So that was when I really made the step from road safety into the occupational health and safety space. So I started to work with Roger and putting together a training course for organizations on how to manage occupational road Fisk. But then, to fully fulfill that role, I then needed to start to learn more about occupational health and safety and deliver other roster courses on occupational health and safety. So that was my first connection with the bush to learn about occupational health and safety. I did my neighbours general certificate over that year, Fan that you you spoke about and then my neighbours diploma,

[00:10:23] spk_0: so

[00:10:24] spk_1: that would be to deliver not only neighbours courses but some other great roster courses that were out there. Then about manual handling and setting people handling and safety representatives and whole wonderful portfolio. So, yeah, that then began what again has been a lifelong relationship with the bush. So along that journey, I became an examiner kibosh while still working prosper and I also was a trustee. Funny Bush at one period of time. So when a full time role came up at the bush again, it was a very natural transition for me to apply for what to do in the standards manager role about 14 years ago. So, yeah, 14 years ago, I moved from Rosberg four times in a Bush and then since then have been very much involved with products assessment, accreditation or the quality standards with what, what? We've been in a bush. But again, I'm very blessed. Sheldon, I've maintained a wonderful relationship with prosper and continued ever since I left to be a judge on the health few award. Uh, and last year I was appointed chair of the George L. Trophy panel, that award to you know, the entrance that has just shown the most inspirational work towards managing health and safety. So, yeah, it's a bit of a weekly route you know not where I intended to be, but absolutely blessed are on that journey. And I think what's kept me on the health safety turn in the past is, you know, the amazing people that you meet along the way, like yourself and all the other wonderful colleagues we have and to be inspired by that shared vision that we all have, which is as simple as work into that mission. And that those values that every single person who goes to work as the absolute right to leave that workplace, wherever that may be, as safe and healthy as they entered

[00:12:21] spk_0: it. Yeah,

[00:12:22] spk_1: and that's what kept me on that path. To be able to contribute to that has kept me in this amazing world. Departed safety.

[00:12:30] spk_0: Wow. Did you have a passion for it at the beginning, or did they did the passion start building?

[00:12:37] spk_1: Great question. I think it started building, You know, when I became involved in in a way back, you know, so many years ago in the accident investigation prevention. It's that harsh reality that you're actually, you know, making the difference. Uh, and when I started delivering training, you know, always drove me if one person leaves here with some information that can help save another individual from harm. You know, my day has been beyond worthwhile. So the passion, the passion grew. And just say once you start meeting other people along the way and sharing that passion can really see the vision and the difference that collectively we make

[00:13:20] spk_0: Wow, I have a business partner for my my consulting business because, you know, this this is the podcast side is almost a labor of love. But my business side, uh, I do have a business partner and we we are active safety consultants, and he's ex OSHA, and he worked with OSHA to the degree that he got into the assistant area and area director position. But, uh, he took a part of the ocean investigation for fatalities and the stories he would tell me on roadway fatalities That was cross jurisdiction between ocean Department of Transportation in the U. S. And some of the other things. And there's been a real big one that he was a part of. He was the lead investigator of the one where if you remember years back, there was a Seaworld accident which is one of the theme parks here where they have killer whales. Uh, he was the lead investigation of the fatality involved in one of these killer whales, and he's telling me the story of what they see. And then from there I could see his empathy towards not only, uh, the workers, but then the family members and the clients. And, uh, I'm imagining that you probably were. Most people don't get to see that part, so they don't know. They really just think of, well, safety persons telling me to put on my glasses and where my heart had, and they think of that as being silly. But coming from your perspective, you've seen the worst. Working your way towards what we might say is something simple. As you know, wearing your p p e. What kind of perspective did that give

[00:14:55] spk_1: you? Absolutely. And that's the power of the health and sector. Professionally, you know, that's where you get your by. And yes, we've got rightly so that the legalities and the rules and regulations to follow. Yes, we've got all the financial benefits of putting in an effective health safety management system. But safety is not something you do to people and the legalities of finances are, if not in a cultural way, of what we do to people in. It'll really embrace improvements in health and safety. We need to take every individual on that journey. You know, they need to be part of it and not have safety done to permit. And that's how you can really get that by and to make them understand that, yes, there's laws. Yes, this financial benefits. At the end of the day, we're doing this because we value you,

[00:15:44] spk_0: Uh,

[00:15:45] spk_1: and and beyond that, you know, you get a really good point shells and I always used to describe it as the pebble in the pond. You know, any incident or accident, there's that initial trauma to the person the individual or individuals have affected. But then the effects just go on and on. You know, it's that person's family. It's a friend. It's the colleagues. It's the impact goes way beyond the initial time and day of that incident.

[00:16:10] spk_0: Your passion comes through in your words, and to me it kind of seems like like it's more of a mission, and to me it also has a connotation of, uh, you know, in the in the religious world, you'll say, an evangelist, if you will. Um, it seems like you have that kind of, uh, feel behind your words. Is that safe to say

[00:16:38] spk_1: I hope so shallow. And it's really kind of you to say that you know what we all do. It matters. And I think that's for me into the movement from Ross. Brittany Bush has really developed that in me more because it's great to get anybody qualification. We love to be able to give a wonderful certificate apartment to our successful learners, but me, the passion is the learning that they obtain on that journey. And I think sometimes people can get distracted and very much focused on the assessment endpoint, whereas what actually matters is the learning and actually being able to apply that learning when they go back, back to work. So any shortcuts on that journey are not are not a good thing. We want them to get the certification and qualification, of course, but it's what have I learned, and how can I apply that in the work place to make a difference and make that work place a better place for my colleagues, their friends, their families and so on.

[00:17:41] spk_0: Well, what kind of students are you usually seeing that that say, I want this nimbus certification. I gotta have this. What? What kind of students are leading towards Nimbus certification

[00:17:54] spk_1: again? A good, good question. I mean, there are other alternatives. And again, in a new Bushwick, we embrace that. But what we like to think is that, you know, we set the bar really high our qualifications, and that learning journey is very robust. So we're always revisiting, you know, who are qualifications are intended four and very importantly, the core of what we do, Sheldon, is what do we want that learner to be able to know and do when they've completed that learning journey and then the assessment at the end of it. So I think people that recognize your knee bush for that integral and robust journey that they sort of learners that would come to us and what tends to happen. And I've seen this over so many years now, people that have done the neighbours qualifications themselves tend to end up in different organizations and Corporates around the world. And then they want their people to do in the journey as well. Because they've seen that that robustness and my colleagues like myself. It matters to Sheldon aware health and said people, you know what we do matters and, you know, as an organization, we are We are passionate about that. Uh

[00:19:02] spk_0: huh, That's great. And in order to get that kind of result as being an instructional designer myself, I know that even down to when you're writing, of course, you have to make sure that your objectives are measurable, attainable. They're smart in the smart acronym is, most people in management are are aware of what specific, measurable, attainable, realistic and timely goals. It's s m a r t acronym. Uh, so are you looking at your, um when people want to submit a course to you guys or even if it's, uh, submitting something that might have a end goal of, uh, nimbus certification? That's saying, all right, you are now accredited through us. How? How should they structure that kind of that kind of material? So that the end result will have that kind of integrity?

[00:19:52] spk_1: Yeah, So we help them with that. Sheldon. So in 2000 and 19. We brought in what we call and learn a part of the program and that has six core principles principles within it, which are all focused on the learner. So the learner is absolutely at the heart of what we do and what we want our learner partners to do. So we expect our learning partners to be learner focused. So we look for things like making sure that they've got the right tutor team to deliver the qualifications that they're setting out to deliver. So we want tutors that I've got their own qualifications but are also experienced and can bring life to the learning. So, you know, it's a vocation awarding body. You know, as I mentioned earlier, it's all about empowering those learners to be able to know and do themselves and that, you know, as you know, that's a skill. You know, we can have people who are very qualified and knowledgeable, but they are teaching is another is another skill

[00:20:50] spk_0: altogether. So

[00:20:52] spk_1: yes, so we look for that mix within. Within the tutors, we look for the learning materials that they're going to use to deliver the courses we need that to be dynamic and agile and never more so than in the current environment. So, yeah, a lot of our learning partners delivered face to face and what we've seen come out of a terrible situation with Covid 19. He's some amazingly innovative and creative ways to rethink how they teach. So we look at the learning wherever that may take place. You know whether it is in the classroom or, you know, in the last year, 18 months, you know it's been moving to the digital digital classroom. We've seen mortgage shift to e learning. So we look at that as part of the Learning partners submission we look at just the basics are the robust organization. Are the legitimate organization? Have you got the right structure in place? We do look at those basic things, but mostly it's about their ability to look after the learners, deliver good quality training and learning that actually achieved something at the end of it. Another passion of my own Children is we've all done it. We've all had examinations and asbestos were crammed knowledge into our into our brains last minute, uh, needs much, but actually what we actually learned what's actually been transmitted to a long term memory that we call upon in the workplace. So I always talk about. And this is common in education instead of assessment of learning, which is just that crime in last minute. Let's look at assessment for learning so assessment that actually contributes to learning and and enhances it, and allows the learners to show what they have learned and to demonstrate that the best self that's another passion of mine

[00:22:43] spk_0: with that demonstration be, um, in the form of maybe a video of This is what we learned and this is how we're putting it into action or something similar to a video presentation. If I'm say video automatically because you know, I'm thinking covid world as you mentioned. But some video saying here I am now presenting this material, and here's even a case study that we could use. Is that is that the vein that you're thinking of?

[00:23:10] spk_1: Uh, it's one of the options. So, you know, we have some of our assessments now that are based on a reflective piece. So our leadership qualification, for example, and also into an investigation, uh, they actually watch a video of an incident and then demonstrate the tutor how they would feel and respond to that. With our leadership qualification, they apply what they have learned to their own organizations. Reflect on that. And the assessment is about, uh, them looking at what they were put in place to improve that. So, yeah, we were thinking very long and hard now about assessments not just being theory, not been a demonstration of what you can actually remember actually showing that you've understood. And you can apply this and actually benefit. You're an organization at the same time.

[00:24:01] spk_0: That sounds like a like an augmented learning team, like in the Learning T model, where you have the facilitator and you have the group and the facilitator basically, uh, presents an item such as this, and then the group will will communicate back and forth, and then the outcome is a measurable outcome that they could use tangible outcome. But the team itself, as it being facilitates the way that they create what this outcome would be, would automatically proved that they understand the theories behind it. So it kind of sounds to me like an augmented learning team model.

[00:24:36] spk_1: Yeah, sure. And if learning partners can deliver that in their tuition. You know, these are great things that we look forced with them Within our learning part of the program, there are three levels. You know, it's a high bar to get in there to begin with. So we have bronze learning part of city. But the kind of thing about really approach to learning, you know, there are things that our our golden part of the service to the learners and that we work with our bronze and still the learning partners to to build up to

[00:25:06] spk_0: mm wow and, um for for the audience just so that they think you can understand. What's the basic requirement for each meaning Can do they have to be non profit, or can they be private? And then also do they have to have some sort of, um, management structure as opposed to someone who is running their own training business or something so much that because we do have in in in the U. S. Even some people that I train with, they have their own business where they train certain, uh, groups for certification courses. But behind the scenes, there's maybe an office manager and two or three trainers. But there's no like a body that would be a governing body per se.

[00:25:58] spk_1: Yeah, and that's fine. So within our learning partners, we have all sorts of sizes and shapes and connotations of learning partners. So we have some colleges and universities that are are learning partners. We have some corporate organizations that are learning partners, but equally we have exactly the type that you just described. I mean, now one of our top 10 learning partners actually started as a one man consulting

[00:26:25] spk_0: exactly

[00:26:26] spk_1: that, that that set up and has built that up from, literally that that level. So, you know, for us, it's about that ability to deliver a good experience for the learner. And whether or not that's to 10 learners initially moving up 200,000, it doesn't matter. It's that learning experience that Lerner journey, getting somebody in the workplace that is going to make

[00:26:48] spk_0: wow and that that would kind of lead me to think of some of the countries that are are really just love. Nobody's certifications, African countries, particulars. I have been seeing things posted in different LinkedIn groups and everything. It seems like Asian countries, African countries love, uh, the structure of knee biased dedication of of just you and the full team that you have. And it's a wonderful team as I'm seeing. You know, you guys are very diverse, and I like that that aspect to it. But it seems like a structure can also make it where it's good for the individual country and they may have less resources, but they can still participate in the active learning. So is it safe to say that that's that may be a goal for yours as an organization?

[00:27:48] spk_1: Absolutely so That's part of the work we're doing at the moment to look globally, you know, where have we got, you know, a lot of learning partners where other countries, the areas, perhaps where there's not coverage and we can help either get new learning partners in those areas or perhaps expand the number that that we've got. And that's very much part of what we do in the learning part of the program and are learning part of quality Team is look at working with some of the smaller learning partners or learning partners that are just starting on this journey to help them deliver the service that we're looking

[00:28:19] spk_0: for. And I saw that you're, uh you also have an agreement with B. C S P. And I don't know if there's any other organizations where if they have a designation already that they say, here's a qualified qualification that we says this person that holds a designation meet this qualification that you then can usher them into one of your equivalent certificate programs. Uh, that seems like that's a wonderful thing. Are there other entities that you've gone into agreements with? Uh like that?

[00:28:54] spk_1: Yeah. So it certainly was a Canadian. And the American, you know, safety practices, this program. We have that agreement and we've just revised our diploma qualification shoulders. But it's a really opportune time for us to look at where we can get that synergy with other bodies across the world. So we'll be doing that that piece of work very shortly, but where we can show us the equivalent qualification can travel globally, and we're very much looking to continue to do

[00:29:20] spk_0: that. Excellent for covid 19. You know, those are some of the things that we've all had to, you know, pretty much you just juggle. And I'm now helping people who haven't really been instructors online get more engaging online with. They're just wonderful. When they could instruct one on one. They've got all their tools. They got things that they could bring to physically showing class that people could handle and demonstrate. But when you put them behind in a zoom conference or one of the other conferences out there, they are intimidated themselves. And therefore the message comes out like they're scared or they don't know the message. But they really do. And, uh, and there's a little disconnect between digital. And even though the person knows the material is just they're not there yet. Are you guys seeing the same thing on your end?

[00:30:12] spk_1: Yeah, I think so. It's so interesting. I mean, the shift is across the world, but certainly, you know, I really believe began. A good thing has come out of this dreadful pandemic in in education and learning and assessment. It's really made, you know, organizations ourselves included now revisit what they do and how they do it. So I think you're absolutely right. There is a shift is a very different medium to be teaching and tutoring via zoom or or other online mechanisms. But for all the ones that are struggling a little bit and learning, you know, there are others I think just started to be even more innovative and creative with how we teach. And I think this huge benefits in that, because by tutors that have delivered face to face, you know, I can't myself in this. And when you deliver in the same qualities again and again, yeah, perhaps we don't take the time. We need to re energize it and reinvigorate it. Whereas what the pandemic system has made everybody step back and think, right? How do we re deliver this in an engaging way via the different medium?

[00:31:22] spk_0: People

[00:31:22] spk_1: like yourself, Sheldon. They're out there. They're going to help people to get over the digital nerves.

[00:31:27] spk_0: Yeah, and I actually had to I do a lot of live streaming, and I do a lot of just video content. So when I first was starting with video contact, even when I was doing my own learning management system, I had to get used to just looking at the camera, regardless of anything and just imagining in my mind that this camera I'm looking past it into an audience is really how how every presentation I do. I'm just like this is just a camera here. I'm looking past the camera for for my delivery. And if you've ever been on like a studio for for some sort of news, you know, the camera is huge and they give you a little extra stand on and everything where you have to deliver this thing and there's lights everywhere. You feel you're melting. You kind of have to have something in your mind that's going to help you deliver the message with that actually being scared. So that was one of the things I just put in the back of my head is, no matter what the size of the camera is, no matter how many lights are on me, I'm going to look at the camera and just looked like I'm just thinking. Beyond that camera is my audience. So that was a little mindset shift for myself that I had to think of.

[00:32:42] spk_1: That's a great tip, a great tip. And I think that's what some trainers find find difficult again. I would include myself really good tutor and trainer respond to people's faces and body language. So, yeah, that is a different skill again when you say you can't actually got to visualize your audience and that's a great tip. But when you actually can't see them, it's been confident enough to visualize them engaged and not falling asleep. I'm sure you're talking that isn't the latter.

[00:33:15] spk_0: But you

[00:33:16] spk_1: can't see their reaction that you're having. Yeah,

[00:33:20] spk_0: all those things is truly you already have a database of what audience reactions look like and their faces and and even there laughing point. So you just go relying on that database that you've had for years and years of all your instruction, and you just imagine that that's what they're doing and then them to to bring it to the digital safe is you say, Oh, yeah, I know you guys are laughing right now.

[00:33:44] spk_1: What do you say?

[00:33:44] spk_0: I know right now you're giving me that. Look,

[00:33:48] spk_1: I'll

[00:33:49] spk_0: pause or you have something like that and yeah, they know that. You know that. Yes, that's probably what they're doing. So it does help in that way. Um, had a question that just came up to me when We're thinking of the new delivery method. And I know a lot of organizations. I teach for one that, uh, they do a certification of occupational safety specialist costs the O. S S. And they have a novel one, uh, certificate of occupational safety managers. So as soon as covid really came to the States and right around march of last year, they were like, Oh, listening is more than we thought, and we even getting cancellations where they had to cancel due to wanting to be responsible. And now they're like, we need to think of a different way to start delivering. And then they created versatile cause virtual cost them. And I was part of the team to help them with that, Um, what did you guys have to do as an organization to because you physically have a location that everyone needs to go to it for working and everything else, so you have to deal with it on a structural side for your administration. But then now you have, you know, partners that you have to deal with, and then how do you mentor them into the same thing you're doing at your physical location and then your delivery method for all of your certification and courses that now needs to take another look and an organization your size and your reach. That, to me, is daunting. How did you guys do this?

[00:35:19] spk_1: A good question. So our first priority back and again, it was March last year for us as well. Our first priority before the first national lockdown. Here was our employees. So first and foremost, it was about how do we get, you know, 100 plus people who were predominantly all office based? How do we get them home and safe? And how my colleagues responded to that was just incredible, you know, literally over a space. A few a few days. Once we took that decision, which was about a week before our lockdown, that we needed to get our people home. Everybody just responded to that. You know, we made sure people had laptops. They took chairs and screens and and things home with them. It could work in the positions and postures at home. We've got some new guidance out there, people and literally that happened towards the back end of one week by Monday morning. The next week our entire staff or functional working from

[00:36:16] spk_0: home. Wow.

[00:36:17] spk_1: Uh, you know, there's a few little glitches and a few little work around, but generally it was business as usual on that Monday morning. Okay, we couldn't respond to the phones as we did and said there's some. There were some changes, but generally we were able to still function as as the organization that we are. The next challenge, then, was our learning partners, as you say, Sheldon. So as it became bigger than I think we all first anticipated yet courses were being cancelled. They couldn't deliver face to face. And that's when we started working with those learning partners to re accredit the courses and qualifications to deliver blended, learning and learning digitally and so on. And that's where we've seen some great innovation and creativity, you know, come along. The next biggest challenge was our learners. So a point of March last year, a significant number of our endpoint assessments were venues examinations, so they all had to be quite rightly cancelled, postponed. So we had thousands of learners stranded,

[00:37:23] spk_0: many

[00:37:24] spk_1: of them ready to sit those endpoint assessments. So we are very blessed with a very good relationship with our regulators. So the SQL, these qualifications authority are our regulators in awarding body. We worked with them from there onwards to start revisiting our endpoint assessments. And we started with our general certificates, our national and international general, because that's where we have the largest number of our learners stranded. And we completely change the assessment point and replace the venue set examination with our open book examination. So again, the commitment of my colleagues and the commitment of the learning partners to get that out there to our learners in just a phenomenally short time, uh, was just astounding. So that process started around May. We delivered their first open book examination in August last

[00:38:24] spk_0: year.

[00:38:25] spk_1: So we're now working on other assessment points because again, I think, you know, people underestimated the length of these restrictions and the lockdown and the impact of the pandemic. So, yeah, I can remember closing the office with some colleagues and thinking this all seems very surreal and very strange, but we'll be back in a couple of

[00:38:45] spk_0: months and

[00:38:47] spk_1: we're nearly a year down the line and all are still are still working from home. But Yeah, As I keep saying, Children, some really amazing things have come out of an incredibly trying to situation. And I think in the space of education assessment, it's made us better. It's made us, I you'll see this, I'm sure, and embrace it as well. It's made us grab hold of the amazing technology that is out there and use it to enhance learning and to enhance assessment. And our objective throughout all of this was just to be able to reach any learner anywhere technology allowances to do that. So, yes, we're not there yet. We're still working on making sure that all of our qualifications can be assessed by every learner. But we hit the nail on the head and got the majority of our learners moving with the general certificate.

[00:39:41] spk_0: Wow, to me, I'm hearing a whole bunch of things that my previous life I used to be of worker for the state of Florida. So I worked for a special district of the State of Florida wastewater treatment facility where I was the plant manager in charge of several other entities or should say several different things that would make that one facility run, including having to make sure that our infrastructure digitally was safe and secure from cyber attacks, because that was one of the things that would be very big on our mind. So, uh, in all of the SSL, the security certificates and everything else and making sure that there's integrity in the system with chains and physical locks, that would be digital locks, obviously, that you have to make sure that those things were all in place, everything that you're telling me and just saying to me, I keep having that digital security in my in the back of my mind. And then I'm also thinking about the delivery mechanism of how each one of these programs would work. And the quickest way to do that would be partnerships rather than you trying to build a pipeline digitally to get that going. So now you have to vet these partners and make sure that they have encrypted software. And, uh, is this going to be mobile where someone could have it on their phone? And how is that encrypted? And that, to me, is what I'm hearing that seems so daunting as a task. You must have quite a little road map going for your organization?

[00:41:16] spk_1: Yeah, we do. And that's exactly the term that that we use. You know, it's a transportation transformation, wrote up the whole organization. And one of the constants of that is the technical transformation. To be able to deliver all of the assessment, whatever that assessment pieces to be able to deliver that digitally with all of that that safety and security built in as as, as you say, and with that first open book examination, we did have some learners because of the restrictions and the areas that were in that were actually able to complete that, you know, by your phone, that was literally, you know what we meant by any any learner anywhere.

[00:41:53] spk_0: Wow, I like that term. Any learner anywhere?

[00:41:56] spk_1: Uh,

[00:41:57] spk_0: that's excellent. Is that a motto that you guys have always had? Or did you have to have to create that one

[00:42:04] spk_1: that was just created as the objective of that first assessment? It's like, What do we need to do to beat these restrictions and to get an assessment out to, as we've said in any learner anywhere?

[00:42:17] spk_0: All right, start to T shirt factory that that is a t shirt right there. Put the kibosh logo right on the right on the chest patch. And that's

[00:42:27] spk_1: it. Onto it?

[00:42:28] spk_0: Yes, Yes. Get get. Get them onto that right now. Your marketing team, they need that. Is there anything that you want to give to my audience? That that especially people who are now thinking. All right, I can do this. I just need maybe a certificate. In my country, I know nobody goes beyond a national certificate even though you do have national and international certification. Um, what would the tip be to to help those that really feel they're ready to get these certifications and it will help them build on their own personal business as a consultant? What? What would you say?

[00:43:09] spk_1: I think the first thing is just to know that you can do it. You know, if you've got, you know, the shared passion you know that you're hearing between shells and you've got that passion to make a difference. Then you know that ignites your learning journey because she will embrace what you learn. And that passion will carry that through to you. Implementing that knowledge into your workplace is so you don't be intimidated by the certifications and and the courses and the qualifications. You know, there's a vast variety of learning partners out there. There's different ways to learn that suits your own learning style. So take some time to look at which learning partner you want to work with queues, the one that suits you know your learning style. Ask them about their terms and conditions of the support that they will give you. So make sure the timeframes involved actually allow you to complete your learning in your assessment in a way that suits you and your life and other commitment. I enjoy it, you know, enjoy the learning and enjoy, you know, being coming part of a great community. You know, as I said at the beginning of this this session, you know what has kept me on this journey is, yes, the difference that we all make. But the people you meet along the way that they share that passion and and I think the other thing shells And I'd say right now is that what the pandemic has brought in the health and safety world, I think, is an even higher regard for health and safety. practitioners, You know their skills are needed now more than ever with the challenges that we've got with this

[00:44:47] spk_0: pandemic. So,

[00:44:49] spk_1: yeah, come onboard and join a fantastic profession and community.

[00:44:54] spk_0: Oh, excellent. So what I'm I'm summarising is don't say I can't do this. But how can I do this? How can I make this happen? Absolutely.

[00:45:04] spk_1: That's another T shirt.

[00:45:05] spk_0: There we go. We got two of them going. Where's our company? Get one of those coming. Well, I truly appreciate you taking some time and talking with me. I just had a wonderful, wonderful time with you. Thank you so much. D.

[00:45:20] spk_1: It's my great pleasure Children. And likewise,

[00:45:28] spk_0: this episode

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