Join us as we reconnect with Gordon and find out more about some of the projects he has been working on since the last time we spoke with him. He delves into the recent five pack of units he purchased and how that deal came about, dealing with councils and fire ratings, and so much more!

Timestamps:
00:45 | Buying in Bulk
02:25 | In the End, He Didn’t Sell It
05:26 | Let’s Get Ready to Reno
08:00 | Uncharted Land
12:03 | Capital and Councils
13:07 | It Pays to Know People
15:00 | Commercial and Residential Loans on Units
16:15 | The Strata Titling Process
20:30 | Coming Up Next...
23:36 | When to Hold Them, And When to Fold Them
25:40 | Deals Don’t Pop Up in Your Inbox

Resources and Links:

[00:04:38] But he was super motivated to sell at that point, he essentially had to get them done. He was gonna lose a couple of other things if he wasn't able to shift these. So I ended up picking them up for $88,000 a unit and picked them up for $440,000 for the lot.

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with award winning property investor of the year, Sam Gordon. With a track record of 20 properties under the age of 30, we’ll learn about purchasing properties in packs, how applying strata titling generated over $150,000 of equity, and why it can literally pay to know people.

Tyrone Shum:
To kick things off, Gordon recaps the story of how he found the original four pack of units in a regional town, and how that led to this purchase of the pack of five.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:00:45] This was a funny one. When I went for my little— around Australia, almost— trip looking at property, this was one of the ones that I actually went to have a look at originally. It was overpriced. I tried to work it really, really hard to get it for the right money. And it just didn't come together. And off the back of this one that's when I was brought the original four pack that I bought. [It] was from the same vendor but that one needed a little bit of work and he didn't want to put the capital into it— which would have had to have been his own money— to then split it with his wife that he was gonna get a divorce with. 

[00:01:19] So this one was already in pretty good nick, it didn't actually need the renovation works, at no time in the immediate future was any renovation work really required. So really this one was just being picked up as I was trying to just get it below market. This was the one that was all in one line. So it hadn't been individually titled yet, so there was a bit of opportunity there for forcing some value on the asset as well. 

[00:01:42] But he was overpriced. At the time I think he was chasing over $600,000 for each one, so yeah, for about $120,000 [or] $125,000 a unit I think he was his aim to try and pick them up for. Which in my opinion is probably what the renovated properties would be worth; around about $125,000 is the renovated property value. And that's individually titled, which these ones weren't yet, so the value wasn't there in the deal. It was overpriced. And he ended up pulling them off the market with the intention that he was going to keep them and potentially renovate and individually title them himself. I think their plan was he was going to buy his ex wife out for these deals. But that obviously didn't come to fruition.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:02:25] Unfortunately for him, and we did talk in detail in the last episode about that, it was quite an interesting thing that happened there. And interestingly it sat there for six months, right, and he couldn't sell it so he took it off the market, brought it back on, and still no one. And what's fascinating is that at that point in time, there [were] so many political changes, the election had come, COVID hit, so it wasn't good timing. So you came in and you said, 'Look, I'm willing to take these on because I purchased your other set here, would you consider this?'

Sam Gordon:   

[00:02:58] That's pretty much the way it worked! It was funny because it was when I was down and renovating the other two. So I'd already renovated the first two of the other units. And I was going down and renovating the second two. And that's when I called the agent up, I was actually looking for a deal for one of my clients. And when I was there I picked up another deal for one of my clients. It was a similar kind of setup to the first one I purchased, it was three two bedders at the front and then a three bedder at the back. 

[00:03:28] And then I said to the agent when we'd bought this one— that one was off market as well— and then I said to the agent when we bought that one, I said 'What about that old five pack that fella had? What did he ever do with them?' And he just kind of gave me a bit of a long winded story about everything that was going on. Then he kind of got to the end of it [and] he goes, 'So in the end he didn't sell it, he said he was gonna try and keep it'. And I go, 'Maybe hit him up, see what he wants to do with them'. 

 

[00:03:52] And then when he hit the owner up he goes, 'Oh, mate, I've been thinking about calling you, there's a lot of stuff going on at the moment and I'm thinking about cutting them'. And he goes 'Well mate, I've got this young fella here who bought the last set off you'. He goes, 'What do you reckon? What are you willing to do them for?' And he was still trying to get around $500,000 [or] $550,000 or something like that. It was pretty crazy money what he was kind of chasing, for an unrenovated product that wasn't individually titled. 

[00:04:22] And they were probably worth... even unrenovated they had sold before [for] around $105,000 to $110,000 per unit. So he probably wasn't too far off the mark when he was talking around about that mid, low to mid fives, around that $520,000 to $550,000. But he was super motivated to sell at that point, he essentially had to get them done. He was gonna lose a couple of other things if he wasn't able to shift these. So I ended up picking them up for $88,000 a unit and picked them up for $440,000 for the lot.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:04:54] You must've been going, 'Oh crap!' But no, I think it's a win-win situation when you think about it, because if he didn't sell up and get some cash here, he would have been in more trouble for the other things that he was motivated to do. 

Sam Gordon:   

[00:05:06] That's it. Yeah, he was running into his issues, man, he wanted $1, he was never gonna get it. So if he wanted to actually sell them, he had to be realistic about it and just take essentially what was on the table.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:05:16] Absolutely. And that's [the] market. If you meet the market, you have a sale; if you don't, then you hold on to it for the next 12 months, a year plus.

Sam Gordon:  

[00:05:24] Yeah, that's it.

[00:05:26] Fantastic. All right. So now you purchased them, let's talk a little bit about the differences. So we were comparing the four pack that you purchased. And the four pack that you purchased are those four units already had titled on them, which is great. So that was very easy for you to actually go in and just do the renovations and then rent them out. But this particular five pack as you said, it's on a one title. Just curious— let's paint the picture of how big was this block? Out of the five how many were renovated or not renovated? All that kind of details, maybe just paint that picture first.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:05:57] Yeah, definitely. So the other block, which was older, the four pack, it was around about a 1960s build, I think, whereas this one was an 1980s build. So it was newer, it was still original. Some of them had slightly updated bathrooms and slightly updated floorings and whatnot, but all the kitchens were still original, but they were bigger units. I couldn't even tell you what kind of square metreage they were, I can't even remember. 

[00:06:25] But these ones are quite big and spacious units, so they were pretty good on that side of things and still in pretty good nick. Definitely didn't need any work, didn't have the old shag pile carpet like the other ones had had. The other ones that had, definitely didn’t have any peeling roofs or anything, the only the only difference was that all five of these were two bedders, whereas the other one had the one three bedder at the back. And they were still all on one title. Still all running on one title at that point.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:06:56] Yeah, great. So now that you've actually purchased that and it's got one title, are the units fully tenanted at this point in time?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:07:06] I think there was one or two vacant at that point when I bought it. I think the tenant might have been going into one of them at that point and the rear one was vacant. I remember we went around and had a good look through the windows and the rear one was vacant.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:07:20] Okay. So at this point in time, did you actually just purchase it with one of them vacant and you're just waiting to do renovations on it? Or did you actually vacate, like, get tenants into all of them?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:07:30] Yeah, look, the intention was I was thinking about going down there and doing the other reno. But I was getting busy, like I was quite busy in the business at the time. And it was kind of different timing compared to when I'd done the last renovation. So I wasn't able to kind of get the time off. So all I decided to do was just to lease it out. And we were still getting good rents on them, so I wasn't too perturbed. Because they were bigger units and because it was in a bit of a better part of town as well, it was quite close to the city centre, this one. So we rented it, like they rented out at quite good rents for what they were in terms of purchase prices as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:08:00] Fantastic. All right, so you weren't able to get down to do the rents then, so what did you actually do on the property since then, because you've obviously been busy, but you've been busy shuffling some paperwork from what I hear?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:08:12] Yeah, I did! So these ones, this one was good. So this is the ones that I put through and actually individually titled them. It was quite an interesting process because I've done other developments before, some more developments as well, but I'd never actually done strata titling across a set of units. And the beauty of the process is learning all the different people you can speak to and really finding guns in their field at different things, which is something I kind of pride myself in the ability at is going and finding people that are really bloody good to work with. 

[00:08:43] I came across this town planner, he actually came to me through my property manager, he was kind of a friend of the property manager. And he wasn't really doing any small scale stuff anymore. He was kind of more into larger lot subdivisions and some of his own works and stuff. He was almost retired from really helping other people so much. But he did it to me because my property manager was managing both my blocks, and he helped me out. He goes, 'Oh, you should just speak to this guy. He's been in the area for, like, years. He knows it like the back of his hand. 

 

[00:09:11] He knew about a certain way of titling them that none of the other town planners that I'd spoken to had let me in on, or I don't even think they really knew. It was the fact that at that point in time, they weren't making us do fire ratings through to the ceilings. So the other block that I'd bought that had been individually titled about five years before, they'd made them put the fire rated gyprock through to the roof. There'd been a legislation change and they weren't going to the same sort of extremes of allowing us to do them at that point. And essentially, they were allowing you to put it in without the fire rating all the way through the roof. Yeah, it was a bit of a different setting. 

[00:09:53] But really what it came back to was they changed the law to allow it to be passed as almost like grandfathered, right? The council approved it way back when in the day, and they were happy to approve it based on the same conditions and the same planning laws that were in place all the way back then. So we were able to kind of get it grandfathered and pushed through on that side of things. Now, that one phone call, and being able to speak to that fella, between five units that's four fire ratings through the ceiling that I was gonna have to put through, saved me about $15,000 not having to go down that avenue. 

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:10:31] That's what I was gonna say! It makes a huge difference.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:10:38] Yeah, that's it mate, and this is one of the things I actually factored into my numbers and I said to them. It was one of my key negotiating tactics was that I was like, 'Man, I'm gonna have to put fire rating through the ceilings here', and I found out after I bought it [that] I didn't have to. That was the extra fat in the deals. I was laughing on that one.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:10:56] That's amazing. Yeah, I have been through that stage as well because when I was looking at doing the renovations for my units where I've got a property in Victoria, I wanted to actually subdivide those two units above. They said to me 'Look, if you want to do it, you're gonna have to put fire rating in'. And plus, because it is a 1960s [or] 1950s building as well, too. It's been renovated on the external so it looks good on that side of things. But internally, it didn't match any of the fire ratings. So they said 'Look, if you were to do it properly you'd have to actually put a double rated wall in'. And she said it's $5,000 there, $15,000 for five, that's $5,000 each. Mine would have cost about $10,000 because we had to actually redo and restructure a lot of things. So that's a big, big difference especially in these regional towns. You can't see these walls!

Sam Gordon:   

[00:11:42] It's so true, honestly. And in a lot of the regional towns, to get trades to do that sort of stuff as well can be quite expensive. And trying to find the right guys to do it. It can be a bit of a headache. So to be able to work around that one, I was pretty happy to say the least. 

Coming up after the break, Gordon explains how his five units were originally a commercial loan...

[00:15:20] I was max borrowing capacity as well, in terms of any sort of decent mainstream lender that probably would have done me up to four, like on the last one. But when you go into five, pretty much all five plus unit blocks, they all fall under that commercial lending space. 

How he loves investing in regional areas...

[00:16:31] One beautiful part of investing regionally is your land component, your actual rateable land value is very low being in a regional area. 

He shares what’s next on his to-do list...

[00:21:14] For now if any other good deals that come up, they'll be there'll be going towards the client base. I'm in a couple of capital cities at the moment picking up a few very select different properties, making some good margins on the way in and kind of manufacturing really good yields on.

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Are you interested in finding great deals like Sam Gordon does?

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Simply TXT 0499 88 10 40 and quote “APS”.

Tyrone Shum:   

Gordon shares how long the fire ratings took him to get approved and if it’s all done and dusted yet at this point.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:12:03] That's all gone through, that's all stamped. The whole reason I do them like that as well is I can refile the capital back out of the deal. I buy them all in one line, individually title them and then I'm able to pull the capital back out of the deal. So I got council approval for that, that was that was a few months ago actually I got that one through. 

[00:12:23] It was a couple of months process, the town planner had to engage a surveyor to actually survey the sites and everything. We had to get that through, we had to get those plans stamped by the council and get them through Land Titles as well to get it all stamped and all crossed off and ticked off on and all the rest of it. So it was a good few months kind of process. But it was definitely a good result on the back end of it as well.

Tyrone Shum: 

[00:12:05] That's great. And all you have to do is pick up the phone, right? And just call people.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:12:50] Pretty much, yeah. I think he charged me about $3,500 or something, [those] were his costs and then he just sent me the bills when they came through from the surveyor and everyone and Land Titles and whatnot. He pretty much handled the whole process so it was perfect.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:13:05] So good!

Sam Gordon:   

[00:13:07] [It] pays to know people, right?! Like that literally came from the property manager who had known this guy since they were kids, and because the property manager was managing my nine units and my other clients' four units and then we were looking at picking some other deals up in there as well, he knew it was continued business so he was happy. He was looking after me and it all goes around full circle. Looking after him, keeping the management and whatnot. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:13:30] Sure, he'd be stoked now, he'd be like 'Sam, I'm your client for life now'.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:13:36] Man, listen, he rings me off markets, he prospects his clients that own the unit blocks to try and bring them to me. it's mad, it's so good.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:13:42] That's awesome. See, that's the power of networking, the power of actually having these relationships. And that's why Sam you know, from the last episode you said that's so key to actually have these relationships. My gosh, it is awesome. So now you've got five units, what's been the process next? You said that you've already gone back to the bank to refinance it already?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:14:07] Yeah mate, I've already put them through the bank. Once the titles came out I just ordered the re-evaluations and got them done. Because I was tracking what they were selling for in the area as well. And most of the sales for that similar sort of product was up around about $110,000 for that size unit— about $110,000 unrenovated, about $135,000 renovated because they were quite big, these ones. So because I was able to refile them onto individual loans, being the five units, that was a commercial lending. And then being able to bring them back to individual loans, that brought it back to residential lending. So I pulled out a bulk of my money and obviously had had a much lower interest rate to go with it as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:15:00] You said that it was originally a commercial loan. So how did that work first? So firstly, when you purchase the five, was that put on a commercial loan initially? 

Sam Gordon:   

[00:15:12] You can get some lenders that will go residential up to four units on one title depending on where they're located. But I was max borrowing capacity as well, in terms of any sort of decent mainstream lender that probably would have done me up to four, like on the last one. But when you go into five, pretty much all five plus unit blocks, they all fall under that commercial lending space. So you just kind of put the loan through at commercial and then once it was all done, there and the individual titling had gone through, then we did the refinance process and withdrew the money.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:15:47] And how hard was that?

Sam Gordon:  

[00:15:52] If I'd had time to do the actual renovation as well, obviously I would have been able to force more and pull it back out. But yeah, work's gonna be busy enough in the business, man. I'll have to save that reno for another day.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:16:05] Don't worry, you don't need to touch that one for now if it's getting good income, you've already refinanced, you've got 90 days to think about it.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:16:13] Exactly right.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:16:15] So does that mean that every single unit now has its own individual title, which means its own individual loans? Which is under your names, or each individual one or whichever entity you've chosen? Is that how that works? 

Sam Gordon:   

[00:16:28] Yeah, I trade them through entities. So one beautiful part of investing regionally is your land component, your actual rateable land value is very low being in a regional area. The beautiful part of that is if you have it in, say, a trust, your land tax component's going to be very, very low, but you have that added benefit of having it in a trust, an arm's length from you, as well as tax benefits of being able to distribute your profits wherever you want. So I hold those assets, definitely in trusts.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:17:00] Great. Yeah, obviously we're not giving any legal advice. But that's very interesting just to be able to understand how that strata titling process works because it's also a fascinating part. Like, if you can buy a block of units, like what Sam's done, and then split them up individually, it's quite a lucrative way of doing it. And as you've just said, if you find the right people, it's actually not too time consuming to do because you rely very heavily on other people to help you to do that. And obviously now that you've drawn out, you've got a lot more equity, you can actually pull [those] funds out to go invest into other properties, or on more deals as you've said.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:17:33] Yeah, definitely, mate. It's like the velocity of money, right? Like, is it staying stagnant? Or are you able to pull it out and keep putting it into more deals? So I think it's usually important to not get too tied up with any transaction to be able to pull those funds back out and keep moving forward. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:17:48] For sure. So I'm also curious about the other deal that you got for your client, another block of units, what those like? Just tell us a little bit more about that.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:17:57] That was a little bit different, funnily enough. So it wasn't all units— there was a little two bedroom house at the front that had been renovated. And then there [were] two two bedroom units and then the three bedroom unit at the back. They were all in pretty original condition barring the house actually had some renovations through it. It had a new bathroom, new kitchen and nicely polished floors and whatnot. 

[00:18:19] One of the units had updated flooring and whatnot throughout. But then the others were pretty original, pretty standard. And that was $374,000 for those, for the two bedroom house, two two bedroom units and a big three bedder at the back. So pretty similar numbers to my first one, just the front ones a house not a unit. And that obviously draws a little bit higher rent having the front one being a house, not a unit, and being detached from the others as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:18:43] Yeah. So does that mean then potentially that an investor— I don't know if there's any potential— but you could subdivide that one, right? And then sell off the house at front and then just keep the units. Do you think that's possible for something like that?

Sam Gordon:  

[00:18:54] Well, it is exactly the same as the other unit. So when you strata title the other units like my five pack, I could sell all those off individually now if I wanted to, and it'd be the same with their scenario as well. You could definitely strata title. It'd be similar, you can do the strata or community title all of them off individually and definitely sell the house off.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:19:12] Yeah, it's very unusual to hear a house with some units on the back though, I don't really... 

Sam Gordon:   

[00:19:16] It was a very different deal, hey.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:19:20] Do you know how that came about? Was it something like they had a block of land and the owner had purchased all of them and bundled in a unit on there?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:19:28] No, he was an old builder, an old, like, Italian builder or something back in the day. They lived in the front house, he and his wife and his kids I think, and then as additional income stream, they built the two two bedders and the three bedder and it was just seen as additional income. They had their little yard fenced off and then the others had free rein of the rear area. So it was cool. It was different. It was definitely a different prospect to either of mine but yeah. It was cool and they were very happy with the deal. They flew down to a nearby airport and drove over and had a look at them. And yeah, they were very impressed as well. It was a good deal. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:20:30] So what's next for you? Now that you've already got your titles for the five pack, you've got four units already renovated downstairs. So you've got total nine down in this regional town, what's next for you?

Sam Gordon:  

[00:21:07] I've probably got enough exposure in this little regional town for now, I do love the place and there's obviously some really good returns. But for now if any other good deals that come up, they'll be there'll be going towards the client base. I'm in a couple of capital cities at the moment picking up a few very select different properties, making some good margins on the way in and kind of manufacturing really good yields on. So I'm working in that space at the moment, just looking to continually add some cash flow into the portfolio. Just kind of keep building that in as well. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:21:38] Okay. Well, I mean, you've got quite a number of properties in your portfolio at this point in time. Just wondering, how do you know at what time do you actually switch out and do a different play? Because this is the challenge. You say for example, at the beginning, you accumulate portfolio properties. For example, the client that we talked to in the previous episode has accumulated seven properties and that is the accumulation phase. But when you get to a point where you're like, 'We might need maybe cash flow property, or we should get another growth property', how do you know when those times are right? And then fit that into the portfolio?

Sam Gordon:  

[00:21:44] Is it for me personally or for a client?

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:22:13] For you personally.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:22:14] For me personally, I'm probably at the point where I have enough equity in the portfolio... I run development deals, like, I always have a development play on the go at any one time because I just like to have a big chunk deal kind of churning in the background at any one time. But I like to pick up the high cash flow deals in good capital city locations, but I'm kind of more targeting the cashflow side now. It's not so much for me about the rinse and repeat of equity and continually pulling equity out and rolling it. I did that in probably the first six or seven years of my portfolio. 

[00:22:48] At the point that I'm in now I'm probably more geared towards still picking up good strong assets in good locations, but making sure they have a good cash flow that goes with them as well. I've been picking up a few of those. And that's probably the strategy going forward. Just keep building the income base, like a lot of the deals we're doing at the moment, on an 80% lender, or over $15,000 [or] $16,000 plus per annum positive in a capital city, I'm more than happy to pick two or three of those up every year while I'm just running the business and just run a few of those on the side every year. And I'm happy with that. And my development. I kind of start one every 18 to 24 months, just kind of keep running those, keep picking up more high cash flow deals, and I'm happy with that. Just keep building other people's portfolios. That's what I love. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:23:36] I love that. It's fantastic to be able to hear that amazing side of things. Because when you get to that stage, it's a completely different ballgame, as you said, it's using equity to be able to do that. So, from what I'm gathering, you're leveraging off your equity to be able to just buy these development sites, do the development deal, and then you keep and hold those developments or do you sell off some of those to pay down things?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:23:57] It really depends on what they are. There's certain deals that I do hold on to. So if I develop certain properties that are going to have a good cash flow attached to them as well, I'll always look to retain those if possible. But probably it's 50/50. So 50% of the deals I'll hold, and the other 50% I'll flip them back to the market. And the funds that I had into that development, to start and complete that development, I keep them rolling into another development to keep the cash profits coming. Or if I hold that deal, I refinance my capital back out and keep moving. 

 

[00:24:31] But the profits— when I take the profits out during a sale, almost every single time I go and dump that into a high cash flow asset, because if I can go and take $150,000 [or] $200,000 from a small development, then I can go and dump that into two high cash flow deals so each one's producing me $15,000 plus positive. Every year, I'm throwing another $30,000 passive income into the portfolio. I don't really see how you lose on that side of things. So it takes a while to get to this point in the portfolio. I think the foundations are hugely important to build first, you need to walk into a strong growth cycle with a good little portfolio of properties to then get to the stage that I'm at now. I honestly think that's a good strong path forward.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:25:13] Yeah, I got the same from one of my mentors— buy some, build some, keep some, and sell some. That's what you're doing. Because you're developing it, you're building it, and then you're putting the money back in to be able to keep some of these that generate the positive cash flow. So yeah, it's so true. I mean, it's such a simple fundamental foundation behind all of this, but I think a lot of people just get confused because there's just so much that goes on. 

[00:25:40] In actual fact, maybe if you wouldn't mind sharing with the listeners, time-wise, how much time do these kinds of things take? Because I know you've got multiple clients on the go, you're helping them find all these deals, it's probably taking a majority of your time, but a lot of people don't see the behind the scenes. People don't know realistically, how long things take. How long does it actually take you to actually put together a deal? For example, a cash flow deal like you found for that one. 

Sam Gordon:  

[00:26:03] The cash flow deals— I probably put together one, max two cash flow deals a month, is probably realistically what I put together. Just because to get the highest return on investment, to get the deals that really spit off a huge amount of positive cash flow, I need to find that deal below market. And to find that deal below market to start with is a lot of work in itself. 

[00:26:28] And then from there, obviously, then I'm manufacturing the additional yield on top of it as well through different strategies. So there's definitely a lot of work involved on that side of things. And all the deals do take time. It doesn't matter what I'm working on. I work very hard on each deal to make sure it's got plenty of fat in it. Definitely. I'm quite proud of saying this when I say to my clients, that a deal will never pop up in your email or I'm never going to call you about a deal that I wouldn't buy myself. And I think with the portfolio I've built, I'm pretty confident I've got a pretty strong portfolio myself. If I wouldn't buy a deal, or if I'm bringing a deal to a client, I'm pretty confident in that deal as well and that it's something that they should be buying. So it's got really good merit to it, good capital on the way in and good cash flow associated with it as well. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:27:20] Yeah, and that's what I love about working with you as well, too, Sam, is because your due diligence processes obviously got you to where you are now with your portfolio that you've built up. And if you haven't done all that kind of stuff, it's very hard for you to be able to offer that kind of skill set to be able to give to the clients because you haven't done it if you haven't. So I think that's the great thing about what you've done, you've actually been on the ground, you've actually been there kicking off in the renovations, speaking to the agents, and really, really negotiating the best you can, not only just for yourself, but you've been doing it for your clients. And that has truly, truly shone because through all these stories that you share with me, a lot of them have been so interesting that I just go, 'Wow. I don't know how he pulled those off'.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:28:04] Mate, all good things take time, right? A lot of people think it's once you find the deal, but so often I literally will negotiate until the property goes unconditional. [If] you ask pretty much any of my clients, I keep working on a deal. Sometimes I'll give them a call and just go, 'Oh, by the way, we just got this much extra off it', and I think they love that. Because I do that for my own stuff. It's like fighting to the death until that thing goes unconditional, anything's still on the table. 

If you learned a lot from the episode, stay tuned for future episodes where Sam Gordon and I will continue to share with you more property stories from his own journey.

Also, did you know when you work with Sam, he’ll include a strategy session to help you put together an actionable property plan to help you build your portfolio just like him. Having a solid plan is the difference between success and failure.

Simply visit australianpropertyscout.com.au and fill out the contact form, or TXT 0499 88 10 40 and quote “APS”.

Thanks for listening!"