Podcasting since 2012 after putting out her 2013 EP North Star, Jeni produced Gritty Birds, a narrative music podcast on XRAY.FM, before launching her production brand Gritty Birds Podcasting. Since 2014, she has produced her own content and also has worked with hundreds of podcasters through workshops, private production clients, coaching and speaking.
Jeni’s special skills are in audio/visual tech, vocal coaching, narrative development, content develop, launches and systems and personal development. She also has worked in sponsorship and promotions through her years on music festival boards, in event production and B2B and retail audio sales.
She is a regularly sought speaker and has spoken at She Podcasts Live, Podcasters Toolkit, Podcasters Summit, Podfest, Podcast Editors Conference, Indiepodcon, Blog and Video Con, and more. She has partnered on workshops with multiple organizations including Siren Nation and Portland Underground Grad School.
[00:00:00] spk_1: in this episode podcast mastermind, jenny Wren Stock trip and I came up with a few sketch ideas what is happening at a podcast conference, like as you're walking around who is showing up at those things and what kind of conversations are you having?
[00:00:16] spk_0: So my favorite place that I've been at any conference recently was the puppy pen.
[00:00:22] spk_1: I love that you were going to have COVID-19 is a joke cast.
[00:00:26] spk_0: So this was like literally it because then the final ones are where you're finally in quarantine and it's like, you know, like you're getting weird
[00:00:37] spk_1: instead of being like a producer for hire or something like that, be the podcast therapist. How
[00:00:43] spk_0: did that affect you with your mother?
[00:00:44] spk_1: Yes, exactly. Which one did we pick? You'll find out on this episode of it's a sketch comedy podcast show. Welcome to sketch comedy podcast show. The one of a kind show where I Stewart rice invite interesting people to have intriguing conversations and then improvise a comedy sketch based on what we talked about. Go to sketch comedy podcast show dot com to find more episodes, more links to more content and just to stop by and visit. Maybe you want to be a guest on the show. There's even a link for that and thank you again for subscribing. If you wanted to leave a review that's positive, that would be cool to this episode's guest, jenny Wren Start trip has my dream job. She runs gritty bird podcasting which helps people produce podcasts that they want to produce. And also runs the podcasters forum for aspiring mike jockeys to connect, learn and share with one another. So she has my dream job. Am I jealous? Yeah. Would I hire her? Absolutely. We talk a great deal about podcasting since we both have been doing it for a while and jenny gives great advice to those that are starting out as well as those that have been doing it for a while. We also talk about how she grew up and how that's formed her life philosophy. It's really interesting. And now my conversation with jenny, wren start trope podcast mastermind with a socialist background. Jenny, welcome to the show.
[00:02:30] spk_0: Hello. It's great to see you. I'm a little nervous because I'm curious what's about to happen right here.
[00:02:36] spk_1: I'm
[00:02:38] spk_0: excited.
[00:02:39] spk_1: What makes you interesting?
[00:02:40] spk_0: I've got a lot of stories. What can I say?
[00:02:43] spk_1: Go for it. Tell us why you are interesting and what some of those stories are before.
[00:02:48] spk_0: Okay, that would be a more uncomfortable question. That's all right.
[00:02:51] spk_1: It can be really uncomfortable. Yeah,
[00:02:54] spk_0: I was like, that's, I mean, I guess it's like the one uncomfortable thing about when someone says what makes you interesting, like, hello, hello, look how special I am. but I do think that um it's it's fun to get to do the things that I do, I create podcasts and I've been recording for a really long time as a musician and I think probably the most interesting, one of the most interesting things about me actually has to do with um my dad's side of the family, because we're like, you're raising this little danish community up in northern Minnesota, and it was actually based on a socialist side of community, and so I've actually met people before who meet me and they go, you're a danish Lutheran, aren't you? Like, based on essentially my belief system and knowing my Minnesota background, because there is this very um there is a certain amount of the way that we look at the world as Norwegian lutherans. So I think that's actually one of the more interesting things I realize didn't plug in my computer about me specifically
[00:03:53] spk_1: because of the fact that like you to talk about this, go ahead and plug in your computer. We'll talk about being a danish. A danish Lutheran. Yeah, Yeah. Okay. So yeah, you grew up from age zero to whatever my
[00:04:13] spk_0: dad did.
[00:04:14] spk_1: So
[00:04:16] spk_0: My grandfather raised all his siblings and then he raised all these kids. So my great grandfather had rheumatoid arthritis and died at the age of 40 and every one of our clan going back forever. He was a pastor, they'd settled back in northern Minnesota. They had than in the church and they had to settle back because they needed to have the farm. And of course it's just this like rock ridden Foresti place where yeah, you have land but the first winter they barely survived. So there is
[00:04:50] spk_1: this, what are you, what are you planting in that area? Like what do you pull at
[00:04:54] spk_0: that point? They're just trying to clear it. And then we had um cows were dairy farm. So to come to the ethic of being a danish Luther, like of this danish Lutheran concept is uh we there's this idea of the afterlife isn't necessarily like that's when you'll have everything you want, that you live in the now and that the gift of being on earth means something. So my great grandmother, which is my middle name, um namesake, she my dad's been uh converting all of her memoirs and also converting memoirs of her mother who had um her journey across from the other from from Denmark. And uh so
[00:05:42] spk_1: mommy talks about, well,
[00:05:46] spk_0: can Narnia it's cold, it's like, you know, wintry. So she she talks about how they almost froze to death. Right? My great my grandfather writes about the beauty of the icicles on the window panes. Like to kind of give you a perspective of what, how that practices said in person. But like how the mom is still like, dude, literally like there's like for her, she says we're only a windowpane away from um like the elements for him. He's like the beautiful pattern of the ice um sculptures on the window and how it makes you appreciated it because that's the, that's the ethic. It's like you take what you want. So last week when I was talking to my dad again, raised on a farm, he says some mornings, it was his birthday. He says some mornings. I just wake up. I think, man, it is amazing that I am not outside At five am shoveling cow poop. I just think some mornings, I'm just like think us awesome. I can't believe I'm not doing that anymore. It's great. It's great to be alive.
[00:06:59] spk_1: Yeah, actually that's a it's just a really good like that is a great philosophy to have it stay present. Look for the positive and everything you're in. Um and then maybe have someone like you know there to say yeah, but if we go outside it's freezing and we'll die. Um Yeah, I have that balance. Both. Both of those are good. Yeah, that's really good. So um All right, so you uh you have this background and it kind of does it feed into your day to day life?
[00:07:30] spk_0: Like I talked to my dad every day.
[00:07:32] spk_1: Okay, so you get a, you get a dose of that every single he sends
[00:07:36] spk_0: me, he sends me these messages like these morning thoughts and sunday thoughts. Yeah. Uh like today, what one of the things he wrote me was life is complicated. Sometimes we have to accept things as they are. The situation with many relationships is that we come I mean it's a whole to react as human and how others react is out of control, small things and then he goes into marriages and it's a complicated world. Yeah, he continues the writing tradition has been in our family. But yeah, I'm having conversations with him about life and we are always trying to find the silver lining even though man, some days, especially this year, feel kind of like what the heck? But I do like I really appreciate that I have a dad and that he is a good one and that I get to still have in my life. So all those things are like, yeah, and I because of the way that life is um you know we spend time nurturing that and there's times we don't talk quite as much, but lately this year that's been a thing. Because what else am I going to call besides podcast?
[00:08:45] spk_1: Right, you call, let's talk about that. So you do podcasting. That's, that's
[00:08:49] spk_0: what do, it's like
[00:08:51] spk_1: your primary thing, isn't it?
[00:08:53] spk_0: It
[00:08:53] spk_1: is, but that's like a big cake.
[00:08:56] spk_0: Yeah. Recently I was meeting with my therapist, I have 80 HD so I've had a therapist since I was 18. It's always a thing because that's how I get my medication and the he said to me, I want you to start doing some things you did before you podcast it and I'm like, what? Yeah, wow man. And I hadn't even realized little things like uh just like, like little things I used to run, it used to be a runner. Um and some of those had to do with injuries and some of that was during podcasting, but you know, like there's these little things that you did and now I'm like, I do podcasts and I help people podcast and sometimes I have podcasts and I tell people to teach other people and I talked and I go on podcasts. So yeah, it is a funny thing to be like Yes podcasts since 2012.
[00:09:46] spk_1: It's really interesting because I talk about how much I lose my shirt every year on this podcast because it's just a hobby for me. That's just what it's always been, it looks like, that's what it's always going to be. But you have this different philosophy, you have this little bit of, of this danish Lutheran presence that I think maybe gives you a head up on this. How is it that you've been able to make a career out of podcasting like that? That's fascinating to me.
[00:10:17] spk_0: You know, it really came out of just sheer like I was trying to figure out like, you know, anyone grows up and says what am I gonna do with my life? Right? And I wanted to be a musician and I ended up getting a degree in music and I got a classical, I was classically trained, started getting into jazz, I also got a political communications degree because during that time I lost my voice and end up having surgery to remove my na jewels and like it just, it changed the trajectory so I was no longer going to be like this amazing oratorio singer, it just, it wouldn't have legs like I could have done okay, but it was like and I moved to Seattle and I performed and I developed and I learned um studied under amazing people. But then, you know, the first crash happened and uh, you know, a lot of people made an interesting pivot. A year ago I was at podcast and I was talking with roger. Cloud roger and I hung out a bunch at that conference. It was really fun. And one of the things we talked about was that cloud microphone started because of a pivot that he made at that same time. So he was working on another prototype of something and then ended up, you know, creating this mic that then set the foundation for work. Cloud microphones are and they actually succeeded during the craft like during the crash because of the way that the product was and all these crazy things. It was very surprising. So like a year ago I was like, ma'am, I think I want to do a podcast about what About how people pivoted during that crash. And by the way, we had an idea Covid was happening at this point, we knew we were all not going to see each other after podcast. But like, we didn't have an idea. It was so bad. Not having an idea that I pitched, this is this is terrible. I pitched to zoom care at podcast where I would produce it on the like as the producer about how, How COVID 19 wasn't that bad.
[00:12:19] spk_1: Well, of course we all at some point when that's just, yeah,
[00:12:25] spk_0: I made slides. I messaged, I mean it was like legit and looking back, you're like, oh, wow, okay, well that's a fail. So I think that what it comes down to is this is something my dad says, okay, well then what's your plan? If something goes wrong? And I'm like, uh, like we'll make a plan and make the plan work. So I think that there it comes down to that. So music, I've gotten to do some cool things in music. I ended up getting a master's in education at one point. So when the crash happened, you know, like we make these small switches and I knew things I wanted to do, I wanted to work in media, I loved doing production, I had done things but I didn't really know what I wanted to do. So like I worked for choose local for a while doing B two B sales, uh that they do about Face magazine here in Portland. And then I did uh I was working, I was in media sponsorship for years with pds pump now and I wanted to start a production company and had started, I produced a soul fest called Moussa's soul fest and had produced my shows and done residencies and just nothing was like landing and I would take business classes that were free in town and just like, I was just kind of grappling and figuring things out. And then I, when I created my record, I started going on podcasts and people like, you have a good voice for this, I was like, okay, that's that's something. And then when I didn't know if I wanted to do another record, I'm like, I still want to record, how can I record when I don't have another song and I don't want to just do voice over work, let's have a podcast, let's ask people questions and then release those. And then eventually I got to pull back in my promotion side and I brought, you know, sponsors onto the show where I ended up joining radio and from there other things happened and it was like, I had them as I was like, every other podcaster that was like, this is going to do the thing, I'm going to make the money from the podcast.
[00:14:28] spk_1: But
[00:14:29] spk_0: there's always like, I know right?
[00:14:32] spk_1: I
[00:14:32] spk_0: know right? It's funny because everybody, everybody thinks it it's universal. And I know that some people were like, I don't do it for that. What I do discover is that you have some kind of goal. It's not just like, because we're looking at our time, right? There's a goal, whatever that goal is, there's something in there and everyone thinks they're going to be doing better than they will. That's universal. And what's fun about that is getting to talk to people about what actually happened. I had great success. I actually can't complain about that. Like my first episode had 350 downloads, like how awesome is that. And then I ended up being on radio, which that is amazing. I had a narrative podcast. I've gotten to work with incredible people, but I was never making any money and I, I was like, okay, maybe this will lead to me getting a job. Yeah, like NPR or something like the scope of what I could do versus what exists did not exist. Like I didn't hit me up and I would be reached out by people to produce actually. So like, I was giving workshops on podcasting with siren nation here in Portland and like Chloe you daily and I were working on a podcast like right before her campaign. So there were things that these like, early elements of people asking me to do what I do now and then I'd be in the workshop maybe like, do you do coach? And I'm like, oh no, no, no, like, I don't like what, like, you should have this. And I'm like, I don't understand which is dumb because now I know people who like podcasting for three months there who did have a little success and had, it actually hits, that happens. And then they're like, I have a business, I teach podcasting and you're like, why did I do that at the beginning? So I ended up working at Guitar Center and I like, killed it there. And oh, like one of the conferences I went to, I got a grant like several years ago through the city of Portland to be able to go to podcast movement. And then that started me hitting the conference circuits like five years ago and I was at one of them and I was seeing some friends that I knew from the forums and I look up and they're talking about being a podcast producer and I'm like, or an editor. I'm like, I can be an editor, I can just get clients
[00:16:42] spk_1: like I can just clients. Yeah.
[00:16:46] spk_0: And I ended up having one of the people because I've spoken at the storytelling event P. M. X. The podcast movement that year. And one of them, my friend Caitlin, I ended up editing their show and then in january I got hit up by another person and you know, all of a sudden it was like, oh sweet. And then I decided to leave Guitar center because I didn't, I don't know like retail sales is what it is and you know, I did really well in it. It was like the number one woman in sales at one point and but it was just like back breaking, literally uh like you're literally lifting subs, The way that you get to number one is that you're selling subs and you're selling speaker systems to people who are coming through and you're doing $15,000 deals where you're setting up your setting up trusts, trusses and making phone calls. It's literally back breaking and I'd have like two ankle injuries and it was like my body was broken. So it was
[00:17:39] spk_1: a scroll my mouse around on the screen, maybe talk into a microphone. Yeah, so of course, so
[00:17:45] spk_0: it comes so we can come back into the same thing about being a podcasters. I was like, this is what's going to happen. Not realizing that I had a lot to learn about business. So I took Mercy Corps class that spring and I feel like ever since then I'm constantly learning how to really do this and how to really nail down my message so that people know what I'm doing and that's, that's been, that's the same thing in podcasting. It's when we come back to that question, how did I get here? I just kept figuring out how to create the icicles versus thinking about the window pane in the middle.
[00:18:19] spk_1: That's awesome. Uh so I've got a question for you because I get contacted to do podcasts producing as well. I usually end up giving them your name or somebody else that I know because every time I have a conversation with someone, it starts off like this, what's your goal with the podcast? And how many times do people just say I would just like to have a podcast? How often does that happen for you? Because it happens almost every single time I talked to someone there, like I just want to have one, it's like, but why? What's the, what's the motivation there?
[00:18:53] spk_0: So what I often find is it's I love having one on one conversations with this. It's a hard thing to do in a group because in the group, what I notice that will sometimes happen and it's partly because everyone else would be like, yeah, same and then they're just like, but the truth is unfortunately not exactly that. So what I like to do is then say, well, okay, what, what was the first podcast you know, to actually go back? Like what was the first podcast you listened to? What are some of the podcast you're listening to? What do you do for business? And then it allows us to pull back to the actual reasons. So like, you know, just accept that as fact, it's hard to push someone on that one because one of its like one of the things like when I'm doing content with folks there, like I know my idea and I get it. I mean, dude, I know my idea and I get it. But like I'm still changing my sales page and changing my marketing because that's what everyone does because we're all continuing to refine. So it's nice to come back around from other side just to help kind of build that trust for folks that are coming in because of the fact that I charge money and I don't charge like little money. Usually if somebody set up an appointment with me, they're not investing in just feeling like it because
[00:20:08] spk_1: yeah, maybe that's, that's the difference. And then, yeah, that's the big thing. Um, and then the expect I try to set the expectation of, hey, you're going to get like 12 listens the first five episodes, like just be aware of. It's an ego hit. And usually by that time they stopped talking to me and that's when I give them your name or somebody else. That L Alison is really good.
[00:20:32] spk_0: That's 100%. Where right now I'm trying to figure that's the messaging. So what this year I've been giving these workshops and I started speaking more and I'm really understanding story a lot better and I've always have, but it's always, you pull it back in and then you redo and build the concept, you completely, you know, bomb one workshop and then you rock another one and then you say, okay, all right, let's figure out which ones of those can get put together so that people feel excited and the same thing with working with folks. So when I, so the podcasters forum is my new company and it built out of the idea that I didn't want to just be talking about editing anymore because of the fact that a couple things would happen. One I would have an editing client who hit a financial issue and then they couldn't edit, had an editor anymore. I'd have a person who would come to me and say I want editing and then I'd give the number and then they never call again. Um I would have because of the fact that I actually am a producer, which is a different thing than an editor, but a lot of what I do for producing does not always include strategy, even though I know strategy. So I would get to this part where we created this beautiful something and then they would be like, I'm going to hire somebody who knows what they're talking about for this other stuff and then they'd end up leaving because they didn't want to spend the money again, Right? So it all ended up often coming down to this element of it. And I was like, I need to have something that is a steady stream of income, a my need. But the other half of it was I wanted something where there could have those resources out there and I'm still getting the Burbage of it, all right, and the community is the base, but like I'm building courses and figuring out like a membership, essentially it's gonna be a mastermind. So like I originally was like, it's this and you've got my back and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it didn't hit because, you know, it's about one of the things I hit when I put that out, the messaging was all like, you're a new podcaster. But what I discovered is that people don't realize what they need when they first start, they know it's six months later and it's not that they know exactly what it is, they know what's missing. They know that they still have that goal that they said they never had. Or even if they said they were just podcasting for fun, they might have just been like, that was fun and I'm done or they're like, this is fun. And now I actually have more of a goal. So if that was like legitimate it, which it can be, it's like, okay, well what's the next step? And it sometimes has to do with editing, but it might be something else. And I want to meet those podcasters who are getting going and have, or even they've been going for a couple of years and they're hitting like these blocks and now we're like, okay, let's take a look at your show. Let's take a look at your audience. Let's essentially do an audit and helping those folks, you know, starting with an audit, starting with coaching and sometimes editing to help them get to their goals. Even sitting on the business side, not just from the like because there's a million ways we can create the content that reaches your audience without busting your bank. There are ways that we can, everyone has a weak spot. So it's saying what's your audience look like and where is your weak spot? How can we meet the middle? And then for me, of course, it's also still like, but let's also take a look at your audio
[00:23:55] spk_1: is always an element right? Like you can have the best podcast ever, but if it's scratchy or sounds like this, like all of a sudden it can totally derail what you're trying to do. I realized what the weakest part of this podcast
[00:24:11] spk_0: is, what it's okay.
[00:24:14] spk_1: I'm the weakest link here. Um uh so jen you've been doing this for a while. What are some podcast ideas that have hit your ears that you were like, that's ridiculous and anything that just, just like I want to have a podcast about, Do you have anything actually,
[00:24:35] spk_0: I like when people share ideas because people don't generally share their ideas unless they're ready for it. Uh so I think I've gotten some really cool ideas. Um the biggest thing that I think happens is that people will often have almost too much of an idea and it needs to get paired back because it's really hard when you put so much time into a show and then like, it doesn't hit anything, especially when it comes to more complicated narrative things, which is something that helped produce. Uh and I like to be able to create something that when people come to me with those, that does work. And what I would say, like the biggest thing that isn't, it doesn't work as an idea is somebody who literally just wants to talk and doesn't have a clear message. And that's a general all the time thing where you're saying, I want to have a podcast and you're making, you're doing a live stream, but you're not actually, that's actually not a podcast. And why that's important is that you're not getting that rss feed everywhere and you're not getting it saved somewhere um, in facebook, if it goes away is gone. And then you're like, oh, that material, you can't put it in a blog post in the same way. You know, you can do that with Youtube, but it's still not quite the same and like that. But what's sad about that is there's all this content and what, what gets sad is these folks were just like streaming on and I just think about the time they put into all of it and then it's not getting out in the world. So I feel like if my, one of my messages that and I spoke on this on saturday, it's actually now my free download because I'm editing these videos from my women's group, which is great, is about, you should have a plan and that doesn't mean you have to have it all planned out, but it's like, what's, yeah, what is, what is your goal, where you heading with it? And you know, what's the vision here before you're heading into it? Because uh as I was listening to Dave Jackson's school podcasting episode this morning, he said, I used to tell people, tell them what's coming up and I don't say that anymore because like, you don't walk into a restaurant and then see what's going to be on the menu next week, Like give them something right away, have them know exactly what to expect and that's so, so key. So you want to have something right away, you want to follow up with it, but you also want it to be found, so you wouldn't have like, you know, Yes, some of the best restaurants in town are ones you hear word of mouth, but they usually started off with like something that people new the chef, they knew something about the menu. Like they didn't come from nowhere, They just made the location difficult, right? So we're not we're not like putting what's happening with so many podcasts is it's not there, it's not that it's a bad idea that I see, it's usually like an implementation that's just faulty and not leading anyone anywhere. And that's one of the reasons that the comedy shows do so well, because what people don't think about is how every podcaster, every comedian that I know spend so much time on their stand up jokes and then they wait in lines and watch everyone stand up to be able to get on that stage hours. Like I've like it's insane how often that I see this like
[00:28:00] spk_1: all ready to see some time, why why don't you do stand up? And it's like I've tried, I hate it. It's hard to stand up.
[00:28:09] spk_0: Yeah, I don't do stand up at all. But the improv side of it and all the planning means that those people, when they get onto a podcast, they're ready, they've been in the room, they've heard the jokes, they've been showing up for a long time. And while it may seem like they're not planned, they are completely prepared. But not how you think about it. So like when folks who aren't comedians are like, we're going to be fine, we're going to riff, I always talk with my buddies and it could be really good. I'm not saying that it's not, it's just that if there's not a niche or something with a focus or you don't already have some people that just love listening to you guys talk or
[00:28:53] spk_1: Oh, you're speaking of the 2-5 guys sitting around a table talking about pop culture and stuff.
[00:28:59] spk_0: Yeah, which can be great. But there's a whole, like I used to get those folks coming into Guitar center all the time and they would, because they would have bought the worst set up they could and it's, but it is one of, I think that that's the part where like we don't have a goal. We just want to sit around and talk and that comes like that was a really long winded way to kind of bring back to even what you were just saying a little bit ago.
[00:29:24] spk_1: Yeah. It's um, that's the thing is just making a podcast for podcasts sake is that is, it's my least favorite thing as a podcaster because the thing is it buries a lot of other podcasts. That might be really good because I think what happens is people see, people see how many podcasts there are and it's like, I mean the running joke is important and it's like everybody has a beard and a podcast like those things. So indicates
[00:29:53] spk_0: five years ago. But yeah,
[00:29:55] spk_1: but now it is and so you're, you're really, the competition's much broader and it's all over the place and when people jump onto a podcast and they listen to it and they're like, well this is hot garbage, this must be what podcasts are like, hopefully we've gotten over that hump. But for a while there, I felt like that was, Yeah,
[00:30:15] spk_0: I think this one, I think there is a mix that's hitting and part of it is because I mean, even three years ago, the like tech side of it, U. S. The U. S. B. Mix were crap and you know, people were when they use a Yeti in a room that doesn't need it or like what, you know, just USB and uh um, there's a couple other brands, but now you've got amazing dynamics like that are inexpensive and you can be connected super easy and you can sound good so easily that it shouldn't be as big of an issue. And this year, especially I've seen an improvement and audio because like us as producers and editors have been sound. People have been saying for years, get a pair of those old apple earbuds that have
[00:31:05] spk_1: the
[00:31:07] spk_0: triple ring at the end, not the U S. B one and have those. But finally the thing we're always saying, hold it up to the mouth. You see this all the time. You can make even a dongle and you see this on, on Tiktok videos, you see this on your reels, videos on instagram and people. So it's not being as a thing that we were all telling people now it's getting implemented and people see it. So all of these little things are actually making more sense. So someone might see my in ears and be like, oh, that doesn't sound bad. If I had the sound connected from these, we'd have this weird delay, it be a problem. And that's that's another one that I, so I feel like I'm constantly reminding people don't wear your earrings if you've got, you know, like there's these little things, but so many people are saying it, it's starting to like actually hit with people once they're engaged with podcasting. Because the thing about podcasting is what I see from a lot of folks as well as if you're having a podcast and you have, even if you have casts and you're not going on other podcasts engaging back within the community you're you're creating like in creating an echo. You want. The podcasting is at its best when we're a lot, we're having the back and forth right when we're going on people's shows and having it on our shows because that's where we get the connections. And we're saying, what do you know, what are you up to? And there's the 15 minutes before and after the show were like, yeah, what are you doing right now? You know, that doesn't make sense for content. And it ends up being really cool. And that's like where we get the gigs and that's where we get the connection and that's where the value ends up hitting. And if now that more folks are doing that and figuring out that that piece, some people are never going to make a podcast because they're recognizing, they can just guessed. But the issue they're having is that your listeners don't want to hear you talk about that specific piece over and over and over. If you have a mailing list and at some point, once you have that tech now is the time to say, I want to have people go to my feed, I should have my own podcast and this is what it should be about. And then you can bring them to your website instead of sending to other ones. And when you go on to show you can say go to my podcast and then they can get your material and then they can buy your things and then you're actually having a benefit or like if it's a comedian, then you're getting hired for the thing. Every actor in Hollywood should have a show. And when people are like, oh, another actor, you're like, well, yeah, it's essentially they're creating their own calling card. Why wouldn't they do that?
[00:33:38] spk_1: Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, my calling card is don't hire me. Um, let's say just for silly nonsense questioning. You had a podcast that was six years old. Okay, Okay. And the producer of the podcast is going, then I'm having a hard time producing my podcast anymore because I just don't see a point. What would you say to that person?
[00:34:11] spk_0: I would then want to know what they are excited about right now.
[00:34:16] spk_1: Mhm.
[00:34:16] spk_0: First of all, and then I would ask about their audience. All right. Because you already have something and established and making a pivot is not always the fit. And then I would say what your goals because if you don't want to get rid of a podcast, if it's actually heading toward goals, right? And then I would say, if you, if you are at a point where you're saying I want to call it hit and not podcast ever again, you do have that choice to call a show, especially after six years. You do have the choice to try to start a new show and if you don't want to pay for it anymore, you can, this is where anchor is helpful. I really still don't recommend them as your main host. There's lots of reasons why. But one of the good things about them is you can navigate your feed to anchor and have it live there for free so that it won't go away. Right. So I would say you do have options for having the show, not go away and having that old material. Don't do that before. If you want to start a new show and a new pivot, don't get rid of your old show before you do that because of the fact that if that show doesn't land and I met some folks where they'll start a new thing and it's just not landing like at all. Because when you're a podcaster it's okay to change because let's be honest, when was the last time? I think Gray's Anatomy has been on like 20 seasons. You know like C. S. I. Has been on 20 seasons but like most shows don't run forever like radio programs to an extent. But even the biggest radio personalities in general have made small switches over time. They brought on new co hosts. They have moved to different networks. They've played with different elements in it. Right? Because they are always still trying to get advertisers and that means they're making changes and it's okay as a podcaster to make changes whether that's a brand new show or saying goodbye to it forever if it's not serving your life at that point. Um So I think theoretically you're always in control and you get to do what feels good for you.
[00:36:34] spk_1: That sounds fair. I was asking for a friend, I wasn't asking about this show. Um All right, well, it's been about a half hour um real quick before I real quick before we get into doing the other thing. Uh what would be the three things you would tell a new podcaster? Like if you can tell a new podcast, not like step one, step two, step three, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is like, here are three things you need to know as a brand new podcast er to set expectations properly. What would it be?
[00:37:05] spk_0: One again, have your vision about what you're doing, like? No, you know that that niche and your audience and then put out a show. Yeah. And figure out whether that niches whether that's the same thing because it might not be just because it was in your head doesn't mean you were right. And that is not a negative thing ah Which leads to the 3rd 1. Uh B so pliable and elastic because it's not, you you can change things, you're not bad, something's just not landing if you're not getting somewhere. Uh you know, if bad things come, if people are sending you mean things, uh that means you're also connecting with good people. That's been a good advice. But like the part of that's the elasticity, like bi elastic with it. Um don't get so stuck in the ego of what you have that. It bums you out and that means your numbers, you know, the reaction when your family, friends and friends are not responding to it because, but you put out a podcast like they're they're going to be support you as a human, but that might, they might not
[00:38:23] spk_1: be, they don't care about your podcast.
[00:38:25] spk_0: That's yeah, that comes back to the second one is like, no, your lane, because the more you're in your lane, the more you're talking to, Yeah, if you're in the bumper lane and you're a kid, that's perfect, that's a great place. But like if you're an ace bowler, why would you be in the bumper lane with the five year olds? Like, unless you want to hang out with a five year olds, but like, it's not going to get you to the bowling championships.
[00:38:51] spk_1: Yeah, yeah, I
[00:38:53] spk_0: mean, yeah, it's like, then you're, you know, but that's a different thing. But if you're trying to be a professional bowler and you're over in the bumper lane, like it's just those are two different places to just know your lane and um, you know, yeah, keep elastic, be willing to make changes and right, go with the flow. Uh, and yeah, the second is uh, you know, know your niche and I forget what the first one was, but
[00:39:18] spk_1: guy was niche and then it was put out a show and then I thought that was, it was totally because I think the action thing is really
[00:39:26] spk_0: important. You have
[00:39:27] spk_1: to have the action most important. You forgot the most important one.
[00:39:31] spk_0: Microphones have good sound.
[00:39:32] spk_1: No, no hire you because that will hire me. That would be the best way to start that whole thing.
[00:39:38] spk_0: Honestly, yeah, it's fun. I like working with people
[00:39:42] spk_1: as you should. If you didn't, I would say maybe get
[00:39:46] spk_0: precisely get out of my
[00:39:47] spk_1: lane, get out of that line. All right, well, it is now time to record a sketch. Great. I just realized by releasing this episode, I might be creating more podcast competition. Well, if you are going to be my competition, I'd prefer to have really good content. That sounds fantastic and there is only one person I would recommend for doing just that jenny tell them where they can find you.
[00:40:17] spk_0: I am a podcast producer and the owner of Gritty birds, podcasting and the podcasters forum. So I help content creators, primarily podcasters and video creators to create a stronger impact with their shows and to feel confident, empowered with the tools that they need to be able to succeed.
[00:40:35] spk_1: And of course, all of those links are in the show notes and now our sketch. So what you're saying is with jenny, Wren star Tre in three two, Hi Dr stateroom. It's really great to see you again.
[00:40:53] spk_0: It's good to see you too Stuart have you been doing lately?
[00:40:56] spk_1: Oh, it's been, it's been a rough couple of weeks.
[00:40:59] spk_0: What happened?
[00:41:01] spk_1: Well, I just had had some interactions with people. I just had someone tell me that they hated my voice and they hated being around me anymore. That was really hard. It's been a tough couple of weeks.
[00:41:13] spk_0: How did you react when those things happened?
[00:41:15] spk_1: Well, when the person told me they hated my voice, I got really angry, I slammed the door and it was awful. There was a lot of slamming involved. Is
[00:41:26] spk_0: that something that you find yourself doing often?
[00:41:29] spk_1: I find that people are just mean to me often.
[00:41:32] spk_0: What are some good things you're doing for yourself right now?
[00:41:35] spk_1: Trying to talk about things that I think are really positive or things that I think are really interesting. But I noticed that they don't really respond the way I like them too.
[00:41:44] spk_0: Okay, so what would be a way that you might have approached this situation differently?
[00:41:50] spk_1: Well, I don't know. I was just talking
[00:41:52] spk_0: when you were a child. How did people talk about your voice?
[00:41:56] spk_1: Oh, I was definitely raised in a household that was Children should be seen and often not seen. Often in another room.
[00:42:06] spk_0: You've had experiences where you didn't feel seen or heard. You aren't feeling seen or heard now and you're finding yourself talking a lot, but you're not having a conversation?
[00:42:18] spk_1: That's right. Maybe that's what it's all about.
[00:42:21] spk_0: Okay, So you do see something in that that you can confirm that something you agree
[00:42:25] spk_1: with me
[00:42:26] spk_0: when you get frustrated with somebody in these moments. Do you have anything that you do to self regulate
[00:42:32] spk_1: right now? What I'm doing is I end up screaming back at the I can't tell if that's working or not, Stewart,
[00:42:39] spk_0: Does that work for you? How do you feel when I yell at
[00:42:42] spk_1: you oddly aroused? Do you have any suggestions like things I could be doing? That would make it better.
[00:42:48] spk_0: It sounds to me like there's a mind like I want you to think about your mindset here. Most people don't like getting yelled at, they'll just tune out and you won't be able to regain their trust and remind yourself that you do actually have worse and your voice is good. And as it can be, as simple as a mantra that you do before you had any of these conversations, you might meet a couple of people that really like yelling like you and then all of a sudden you have something in common.
[00:43:16] spk_1: So what you're saying is I should start a podcast. Thank you so much for joining us here at sketch comedy podcast show. We hope you enjoyed listening to it as much as we enjoyed making it. If you would like to see more head to sketch comedy podcast show dot com and you'll get all of the goodies sketch comedy podcast show is licensed under Creative Commons attribution, no derivatives, four point oh International license. Our world is filled with opportunities to be funny, go out there and create an improv adventure of your own. See you next episode.