We’ll also find out more about how a winding career as a business woman and then later a business owner led her to take a move to Sydney that eventually opened the doors to a career in property. So join us in this episode of Property Investory as we find out about both the hardships and inspiring resilience Jill McIntyre has faced and bounced back from and how she ended up building an amazing property portfolio.

Resources and Links:

[00:25:29] You don't have to reinvent the wheel every time you finish a strategy, just fine tune it again if it works for you in the market at that time. 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with life, business and property coach Jill McIntyre to delve more into the lessons she’s learnt in her life and property journey. She shares how she helps her clients apply these, as well as the interesting way she started out in property, and how she found the renovation strategy to be the best one for her. 

Not only a passionate life, business and property coach but also a dedicated grandmother, McIntyre’s day mainly consists of helping others in the property space and enjoying time with her family… 

[00:00:29] As a coach I look at people as a whole and work through, through their lives where they are and moving forward. So I do that from a low point of view mindset, from a business point of view and every one of my clients is into property which of course is my passion. On the other hand true I’m in property myself and yes I love it. I’m a grandmother with three grandchildren, little ones up to 11 years of age. That's just the love of my life which I’m loving on a daily basis and the unconditional love I get and yes I've never been happier in the space that I'm at at the moment helping others get into property and just enjoying each day. 

Growing up in rural Melbourne with her parents and four siblings, McIntyre spent her childhood living and helping out on her family’s little farm...

[00:01:40] I grew up in a - well Warrenwood which is just near South Vineyard and out in Melbourne actually and in those days it was on a farm lot. We had 25 acres, we lived on or Mum and Dad and I lived on and there was I was the youngest of five children and so we were very isolated. There was mum and dad and five children, so seven round the table. Don't know how Mum did it on a daily basis and Mum would run the little farm lot and Dad had his own business. Of course in those days it was very, very rural where now it's just a 500 square meter blocks of land and house, after house, after house. 

[00:02:20] What was it like growing up on a farm?

[00:02:22] Isolated and looking, looking back as I got further in life as I'm going to share with you in a few minutes, I wasn't too good on the stakes of self confidence and self worth. And in those days I certainly didn't know any differently. We occupied ourself, learned to occupy ourself because our neighbors weren't just next door. They were further away. We did have connections, but there was always jobs to do, there was always work to do and a very strong work ethic from my parents point of view on, “You must work hard, you must work hard and save your money and you must work hard.” And I honor my parents for so many of the lessons of their teachings about who I am today but also some of them I've had to undo because we can live and enjoy our money rather than just keeping on working. There's another thing of working hard. We're now working smart. So it's taking their original thought and turning it to work in a better thinking from my point of view. 

While somewhat isolated from her neighbours, McIntyre shares that her childhood home wasn’t that far away from the town, and so she still attended the local school… 

[00:03:37] We were in suburbia if you could imagine you're in Sydney. So if you could imagine living in Parramatta and yes that's about where our farm was. 

[00:03:58] But if you can imagine Parramatta being exactly the same 15 kilometers or 20 kilometers out of town, that's what it was like. So yes I went to their L-3 and Melbourne and caught the train and things like that. And we had a normal walk to the same school which was a fairly old walk. There was only five children in grade 6 at that stage. Yes it was a country in a country area naturally. 

Reminiscing on her post schooling days, McIntyre explains that she went straight into the workforce…

[00:04:36] In those days. 

[00:04:39] Yes I even smile, because in those days the banks wouldn't, even if you were married they wouldn't take the wife's income when lending. So things were very, very different then because you were supposed to stay home and have babies and that was it, you never went back into the workforce. And I started off and I got work for solicitors and I did the money, started on the money side and then worked my way up to office manager over the years. And yes I loved the money side of things and running and organising. So really that was a good ground rules and ground work for me to lead in to what I was doing next. 

Working with a solicitor and managing trust accounts, it was following an unfortunate loss, that McIntyre eventually had to move on and look for new work...

[00:05:41] We come back to the point when my husband got cancer and died and our children at that stage were 11 and 9 years of age and it didn't take me long but I was working part time still with the same solicitor, at that stage and it didn't take me long to realise that I needed to be earning more money. So this was the next stage in my life and of course there was a lot of upheavel after my husband died with our children and he was my soulmate he was my best friend and you know the unexpected happened when we never expect it. 

Buying into a franchise with the hopes that it would increase her income, McIntyre set up shop with a Bread Making Business...

[00:06:40] I just knew that there had to be more money coming into the household and how could I do it. And even then although I was on a much simpler and more naive because my parents would always say work hard and stay in the one job and that was the thinking of everyone in those days. 

[00:06:58] That you have one job and you stay there until you’re retired. There was never the changing of jobs for growth and that type of thinking back then. So I had a couple of good friends and there was a franchise down here in Melbourne called Simply No Need and that was a bread making franchise. And so I bought into the franchise of which I set up shop, had it reconfigured, had a large teaching area and bought all of the stock for the shop in bulk and have it packed, and then I teach people how to make bread and how to make all different sorts of yeast products. Being one of six franchises, it was a lovely, lovely business and I was certainly very passionate it was full time long hours and truth classes at night, five and a half days, six and a half days a week or six days of work. And from that the money just never followed the promised money never flowed. So by day three, I went on to - year three sorry, I had an overdraft and they encouraged me to franchise or to do that. 

However, problems with the franchise continued to arise...

[00:08:14] From there on it just went downhill from there and the other franchises were having the same problem. So by about year three and a half, five of the six franchises banded together and the of three eventually took us on board as the first franchise test case against the franchisor and that was a very harrowing time. I think at the end of it all I was the closest I've ever been to a mental breakdown and I would have lost hundreds of thousands in lost earnings in that business. But the funny the funny thing is though that all of these years down the track, my daughter got on and looked at the website only in the last couple of months and there's been something like 70 people. I got nothing out of it other than winning. But our precedent that's been set with all of the heartache, there's about 70 other franchises now that we're using our president to help their cause against a franchisor, so it certainly wasn't for nothing. It was to help other people as well. 

[00:09:20] And that's how I look at things. 

Despite this positive outlook, surviving as a family at the time proved difficult and so eventually McIntyre had to close down the franchise… 

[00:09:29] Financially going down the gurdler and it was between a rock and a hard place because I couldn't sell the business but you couldn't move out of the business. And eventually when we all jumped ship I was the first one with the ACCC backing and good lawyers and things like that which all came at a cost, a massive cost, but nevertheless I was open for nine weeks and the franchisors broke in twice. And so I shut shop as did some of the other Franchises as well but it was a very harrowing time but left a mark from many people it didn't seem to matter where I went. There were always people that were coming up and there was lots of angry people that just couldn't understand the ideas of why people could come from my group of thinking. But was a good learning ground for me. 

It was after a close friend convinced McIntyre to move to Sydney, that she continued to work tirelessly in order to make the move...

[00:10:27] I had a dear friend in Sydney and all of those years she used to live in Melbourne from early days growing up and she kept on saying why don't you come to Sydney to live. So after a while when I virtually closed the doors I had just stifling to keep a roof over my children said. So I got three jobs. I'd work seven days a week and I'd wake up at three o'clock in the morning thinking where, what day of the week is and where do I go today and I'm sure a lot of people listening can feel the same hardship that they're having about the daily humdrum of where you're going and what you're doing.

She shares that while much of the work she was doing varied, she was appreciative of the many opportunities given to her…

 

[00:12:25] I was diversional at what you call them diversional manager something at nursing homes. I was a cook at a nursing home, you name it. I was bookkeeping somewhere else, yeah anything I could get my hands on to make money. And because I taught cooking and yes the cooking side of it, and I've always loved being creative with things that I do, so diversional therapy. So teaching and sharing diversional therapy with the oldies, that was another thing that just grew out of there. I've been very, very lucky because jobs came to me all the way along. I never ever seemed to have to go for a job, it was just someone else would pop up and yes offer me a job. 

[00:13:17] It was quite strange. 

[00:13:20] I'm very much of the belief that if you if you turn up, the opportunity will turn up and this has only grown since then. 

After continuing to work multiple jobs, it was around the year 2000 that McIntyre eventually left Melbourne behind her and made the move to Sydney...

[00:11:12] So I stuck that out for a while and when the children were in their early very early 20s I moved to Sydney with one car load and didn't know anything about Sydney except for a couple and that was where my new life started. 

[00:11:31] I just needed a change of scenery. Everything here at home in Melbourne was just so, bringing up so much emotion and I needed a new start. So I packed up and went. And you know there was a lot of thought going into it about finding things like that beforehand and on the spur of moment like that idea. 

Following her move to Sydney and working as an operational manager, McIntyre made contacts that led to her watching the personal development presentation that catalysed her property career…

[00:13:44] When I went to Sydney I got off the profession as operational manager on a very large party hire and business and I did that for a couple of years over the Olympic Games in Sydney and that was a physically hard job which was hard work to be quite honest and certainly very, very different to what I'd been doing and and good mates I'd been interviewed for television film interviews to date and out of one of those shows at that stage was my franchisor all because at that time it made headlines being the first case against the franchisor to and from the film crew. Even today I'm still friendly with two of the girls who were the camera people on the table and they'd been to so a guy present and they had a free ticket and they said to me we've got a free ticket for you. This guy does personal development and I've got a hearing problem and usually when I'd go to listen to people struggle because I just couldn't hear and I'd get very frustrated and think why am I wasting my time here and get nothing out of it? So a couple of days before one of the girls that I see is just going to be a waste of time and they said just go and see what happens. Well I went along and I could hear most of what he was saying and I just knew from my point of view after years of not hearing that I was meant to be there. And I didn't have the money to pay for the course for his personal development intensive five day live-in course. Absolutely not. But I was very, very determined that that's where I was going to be. So I set about then creatively how could I make that money to make it happen and yet somehow it all came together and I started off on the personal development course. And in that area then, four weeks later this same mentor had a very intense two year property course starting and there was either the guy in the course that was doing shares and option trading or otherwise property and I couldn't listen to the shares guy because he had a very strong German accent and I just couldn't understand him let alone hear him and so I'd got into property and property was the one that felt comfortable for me back then. 

While she agrees that this is where her property journey began, she adds that what happens prior to your property journey is just as important...

[00:16:19] Property is only a vehicle. It's what happens between our early years that gets us and keep us on focus. And without that if we can't get that working with us it's going to be - life is going to be hard. 

[00:16:38] So that's where mindset and  complementary where what you invest into property is really really important. Okay so tell us a little bit about this journey then. Rambert 2002 you start out taking a property course and helping you also develop your mindset. Where did you go from there. Did you start going to a property in investing. 

After taking the property course, McIntyre joined a property group, working with like minded people to begin buying and investing in property...

[00:16:57] It was a fabulous Property Group. It was a large property group and we were all broken up in to different areas. I joined the - I was in Sydney of course  -and joined the inner west one which is all around like out in Balmain and that area because other friends that I've met at that workshop and were joining that area in that group. It was a very very active group and it wasn't very long when one of the guys who led that group asked me to come and work for him so he was in property and property investing and so I got involved in that more and more and of course worked with the inner circle of my buddies as I called them a group of poor people that were very, very active and proactive in getting out and looking for property. But three of the guys in that group approached me and said would I come on and work with them and we were all at the beginning and the property group that far enough along that we all knew the motivation of each other and what the strengths and weaknesses of each other. They didn't in those days identify those strengths, where I would these days, because as a life coach I'm very much into personalities. But looking back it was four of us which I did a lot of work with the guys for a number of years and we bought at that stage when I first started with them, they we’re doing multi-dwelling development in the around the Telopea area and Parramatta area in Sydney and buying two or three houses together and doing multi dwellings.

While this marked the beginning of a later successful property journey, McIntyre shares that the process was hectic and involved a lot of legal disputes that made her question their approach to property….

[00:18:41] That was just fraught with one major nightmare after another. As the architect kept on trying to push the boundaries which meant two years later approval for these properties still wasn't there and the lease option agreement expired and then a holding prospect getting them. And so we ended up going to the land environment court and each one of the five properties I had that I was then a part of I went to the land and environment court and won them all with lots of changes that have to be made. But that experiment in itself is an experience to be part of a land and environment court. Going through all of that to solve a problem and at the end of all we all sat down and said there's got to be an easier way to make money and property. 

Deciding to renovate and subdivide, McIntyre and her business partners continued to grow their portfolio, while also building on their personal strengths and pushing one another out of their comfort zone...

Jill McIntyre: 

[00:19:32] We ended up going to the Cessnock area and started on buying  and renovating existing houses subdividing and selling the raw site and that's where I got into doing subdivision. And I was the one on the ground that I was doing also all the financials for the guys and for all our engineers and doing some bookkeeping on the side. So that was my income stream and then getting into the property and very hands on and we go up and stays in one of the houses and did a renovation and got in to do renovations before we even owned the property, only in the deposit stage and I was the one that would do the negotiation. It was a fabulous learning curve. After we would talk about strategies in our team meeting all of the other guys worked and so all bar one and so I was the one that was the one up the front and that pushed me out of my comfort zone at the time well and truly. But you know we need to be pushed out of our comfort zone sometime and understanding changing about it is we do live through it. It's our mindset that stops it and we grow. I look up at these things by doing it because that's what they get on and do it. 

Considering the issue with her first property investing projects to be one of her worst moments, McIntyre sheds light on how she should’ve approached the situation then...

[00:21:25] I think looking back in hindsight it would have been cheaper to buy the 30 grand for each site to go to the land environment court than what it was to hold those properties for two and a half years. 

[00:21:35] Really. 

[00:21:37] In hindsight we learn a lot, well and truly. And everything that I seemed to have done was such a good learning curve that I help others even going into a franchise. You think if I have a client that thinks about going into a franchise and I give them the third degree to make sure we ask the right questions. We don't ask questions because we don't know what questions to ask and this applies to whether it's a franchise, whether it's work, whether it's business, with whatever we're doing. So it's to find out more about what is really relevant for the end results that we're doing and with our subdivision by renovate, subdivide, sell, even with the first deal that we got I had a good relationship working with an agent locally at that stage and I would nag him twice a week and so he's got to know who I was very quickly and he rang up and he said there's a property coming up and it's fitting into your criteria because I wanted the house to be positioned correctly and the access handle to the sites to be positioned correctly in an older house. And I rang up and I said to him the house is nearly empty, is there anyway to gain access to this property before we actually settle on it. So by then he knew where we were coming from, that we were going to certainly move forward and look after the house and value add to it. So we spoke to the two adults and the beneficiaries and they came and met us and they agreed and they said there are the kids around the corner of the street have been breaking into the house, breaking our heart. This was mum and dad's house for the last 50 years and they'd both died, both parents. So we moved in, I got a four months settlement rather than a three month settlement - I got an extended settlement in that time we’d go up during the weekends. We did the renovation. Very early on in the piece as soon as we signed the deposit, I got the surveyor to get the application in for the subdivision, so that was all happening while we didn't own the property. The week before we actually settled on the property the bank revalued the half that we'd renovated and what we paid for the whole block, they put that mortgage on the house alone because the value of the whole block then moved totally onto the front house because value added. And about six weeks before we actually settled, I advertised be in your own home by Christmas or Easter or whatever time of year it was and so that had been marking it up 20 percent and getting 2 percent more in our interest that we were paying for the bank on our 80 percent lend. And we then sold that property through Vendor finance to another person the day after they moved in, the day after we actually settled on the property. So we were making, we got a free block of land. 

With such a positive outcome McIntyre explains that they went on to continue with cosmetic renovations and why sticking to working strategies is something anyone can do given the right circumstances…

[00:24:54] We were making 20 percent more on the property because we marked at on Summit and the end or find out the mapping is very much for people that are on good income that have a very low saving capacity and it works for them and at work for us. And yes so we made extra money there on the 2 percent above what we were paying then, and it was a fabulous strategy. So we just went on and kept on multiplying. You know redoing that same strategy and using and using it again. You don't have to reinvent the wheel every time you finish a strategy, just fine tune it and use it again if it works for you in the market at that time. 

She explains why cosmetic renovations were their choice of property strategy and adds that they did fixed up only what they could...

[00:25:49] Although we were lucky that one of the four of us was a plumber and he was a little an Italian guy that just for the life and he was also very, very handy and you know we painted the house, the boys painted the outside. I'd paint the inside, made the curtains and got a new complete kitchen in at a very, very budget price because we're talking about budget houses here too and there was just good money that was made. But cosmetic didn't have to get council approval because we were doing everything internally. You know you didn't have to go through approval time with deckings. We'd been through all of that with all of those multi dwelling properties and learn Environment Court. We certainly weren't going to do projects where you had to get council approval for an extra room or something. We're happy to do it of course to the subdivision, but that's where it stopped. 

It was from this experience as well as after working with her property mentor, that McIntyre began to present, which led to her creating her coaching program…

[00:26:54] This was very much about value adding to a property. How can you see the vision and I would, from my experience, I would say about 80 percent of people aren't visionaries. They can't see the potential in a property unless it's been done, but it was strange, I’m still very much working with my original property mentor all these years down the track and he would get me back to present about every six weeks to his new intake people that would come through. 

[00:27:28] So I got the confidence because remember all those years ago I wasn’t too good on the self esteem  stakes for sure, and confidence stakes had certainly absolutely froze when I had to speak in front of a group and he would get me up every six weeks to present and and you know talk about what I'm doing and I've had a lot of people who would come and say to me, “Can we spend time with you and see what you do?” 

[00:27:57] And I'd say really it's pretty boring on a daily basis. As you know you don't, don't go and do property and it's just exciting. There's a lot of mundane things in between this that you've got to do it. But from there I started of the day with Jill and I'd take people in four groups and go interstate sometimes and do larger groups where I'd take them out, work through different strategies that I'd been doing, take them to different blocks and have a look in their area and ring up agents. It was a practical hands on days so I started that off and yes I did that as well for quite a while. 

On a final note, McIntyre shares that throughout her journey there has been many aha moments where she’s found property to be the best investment vehicle for her, especially when working with one of her current property partners…

[00:29:02] I found a site, I've got a property partner and I like working with someone because as I mentioned earlier I'm very much into personalities and types and there's guy in Perth. Natalie Mauri and to me he was a guy that has everything, he's a marketing guru and I heard him present a very large auditorium of people many years ago and it was all online sit and go from he said I'm only good at 5 percent of what I do the other 95 percent I leave to people that are better suited to a task than I am. And I bring this in so regularly that we can do so many jobs in  renovation say for example. But what about what jobs are going to take three times as long to do them, that's going to hold up a project that means I've got more holding of I'm running out of time that I'm not owning the property and getting something done. So it certainly helped me to equate what am I good at and what are my strengths at. Then to bring and build a team on too, who do I need on my team that can do something better than I can? And it's wasting my time and valuing my time and putting it in the areas that I am really good at and using people who can do it. So I've got a a property partner at the moment. He's a lot younger than I am but he's a builder. He can handle emails in various ways and I've got no intentions of ever learning. I’m the gasbag out the front, I’m the one that host everything with these agents and the negotiating and things like that. He's very analytical. I love doing back of the envelope type equations and working out quick, ready, renos. Yes I'll know it works and then we will go further but he’ll do the intricacies of the feasibility and come up with all of those sorts of strategies because he is very analytical. And then I you know it just works well. So anyone listening, start to think about where your strengths are and put them and make the most, because that's what you really need to be moving forward and capitalizing on what your strengths are as being your worth. Then bring people into your life as part of your team and of course you've got to be people that you want to work with that can come with the same sort of thinking as you're moving forward in property. 

Tyrone Shum: 

Whilst working on a development, McIntyre shares the strategies she encourages her clients to use and how she and her business partner landed their current property deal.

[00:00:14] All the way along I've been doing residential property and of course - and I do this with my clients on a daily basis and honing in and being a even to you we've been talking about this about you being an expert in one area and keeping your focus and defining down into one area and my property partner and I have been looking down in the Safety beach in Dromana here, down bayside area for quite a while and we've been putting offers in on buy, renovate, divide, sell sites. The market had been churning for the downward spiral a bit and nothing was stacking up. And so I'd just Sean and I got together and had a talk and I said I think we need to be coming down to more affordable area. We were working on that if we had bought a house on the Hill in Dromana say for example it would have been happy to pay $860 000 for it. We would have had to do a structural renovation with $100 000 up lease for a million dollars. Maybe it just wasn't operating for doing that and that would have been very very tight to even get that in especially with the market turning so coming to a more affordable area. So I've started to look at Frankston North and and I knew a bit of the background of things there and I didn't want to go into Frankston North and I started to look at Frankston South and we came across a block of land that was 2662 square metres, and I just - my eyes were gonna come out of my head. 

[00:02:00] I couldn't believe there was this block of land be sitting there on sale, three street frontage in Frankston South.

Despite the exciting prospect buying this land could give, McIntyre found that there were restrictions that would prevent her from using her usual renovate, subdivide or multi-dwelling strategy… 

[00:02:12] I kept on looking at it and I got in touch with Sean and there was a 2000 square meter overlay on it which meant that you can't subdivide them and you can’t multidwell. It’s in a Greeny area and with that overlay that was it, it was a residential house on it and beautiful block of land. 

[00:02:35] So I sat on it for a while. When I rang the agents. 

[00:02:38] It was under contract and he took my name because in this market when lending is so hard at the moment, there's a lot of deals sort of falling over and once upon a time in a hot market you didn't need to get back to the agent if it was under contract but on a market that is slowing down and falling, definitely gives you no end to the engagement. So that then he can come back and he did. It fell over at a finance stage with whoever had purchased first of all. So then started about seven or eight weeks of negotiations because I know from someone that wouldn't say booed or goose all those years ago, I loved negotiating but it’s such a game these days and I’d play hardball. 

[00:03:27] There's no doubt about it. And I was going for a 12 month settlement and various things, only putting 1 percent deposit down on the balance at the end of due diligence and I ended up getting a six month settlement of 1 percent down on the balance at the end of the fifty down days, due diligence period and it wasn't easy negotiations but over that period of time before we got to the negotiation stage I'd been trying to think about. 

[00:03:57] We definitely don't want to put a residential house on it. That's not where the strategy comes in. What could we do with it? 

After intense research and multiple deterrents, McIntyre shares that she was eventually able to come up with a profitable use for the land… 

[00:04:08] I thought about a medical center and did some research and there was too many medical centers to close by. Then I thought about aged care and then found out that we needed 4000 minimum of 4000 square meters in an aged care so that was out. And so then I thought what else can we do? And this was going on over a period of time. Of course it didn’t all happen in five minutes because I'd go and do some more research and I thought what about a Childcare centre? And then I went for about another three or four weeks and I'd just in residential ensure you work on supply and demand and all of the indicators days on the market and who your market is and what it's selling for. And it's very easy for me these days to equate all of it for a client. If we're going through on one of these feasibilities as to whether a deal isn't good or not. But I couldn't bring that into childcare because everything childcare works and equations and it works on how many children you could set the childcare up with and multiply by what the government rebate is multiply days, multiply everything with equations. And one of my own clients over in Perth [who] is now a buyer's agent - a successful and very busy buyer agents - and I knew that he was interested and in childcare and I rang him up. He had a look at the site online and he said buy it and he gave me the equation, and the equation he gave me was what the business would be worth and eight hundred and forty thousand dollar purchase which ended up of course. 

[00:05:58] We purchased the property. We [were] also meeting between other people, fabulous guy John Mall in Queensland who specializes in child care and yes the town planner here in Melbourne. David Pinberg and between them we've got the best team on board, we got a demand report to tell us what was in our area, whether there were threats, whether it was worthwhile. And before you even go into childcare you need to demand report or a means report to find out whether it's worthwhile. But we're now - we settle on the fourth of February 2019. We're in the six month period. We've got financial backup, but just to give you some ideas, the figures have come in that if we took this right through and set it up we would have a business of about seven point four million. 

[00:06:59] And can I tell you there's been some wow moments where I'd open their email at 6 o'clock or five thirty in the morning and I'd read spreadsheets and yeah even the rental return as two hundred and fifty thousand a year. And wow. 

With a backer in place, and approvals coming in, McIntyre explains that an important part of this project was ensuring that she had a good team together...

[00:07:48] I can't stress enough about getting a good team together of guys who are doing us absolutely - and even down to the selling agent, the selling agent has been such a support and help along the way but we’re, yeah it's just fabulous, it was fabulous, and taking that on, as soon as this is settled we're just giving ourselves a little bit of a break. While we go through all of the motions yesterday we had it, valued, you know there's so many things that we've learned along the way about getting it valued before the D.A. goes in for the childcare. Otherwise you become a commercial site on the OVR  rather than a residential site. Buying of course in Victoria as we are here with and or nominee and all of the implications there which in other states you can do it in Queensland but it's a different format of doing it, Western Australia you can't do it. The implications of not having to pay double stamp duty. It's been a huge learning curve that I've loved. 

But exactly how long did it take McIntyre to negotiate and make an offer on the property?

[00:09:16] About seven or eight weeks. 

[00:09:20] It wasn't a fast process and also true we haven't had - it with a deceased estate and the daughter who was - I gather she is maybe 60 or something like that, she's never owned property in her life and I think it's got a lot of fear about things when we were talking about an extended time for settlement. 

[00:09:44] And so working with someone on that level I have had to. This has to be a lot. 

[00:09:51] From our point of view where we probably offered more than what I would have normally only because of the potential of the financial by then we had our town planner on board and our child care specialists on board plus McClaren was to Australia that had all done the figures from their end and working with us and we hadn't even taken the town planner and the childcare specialist on board. 

[00:10:16] They were all working with us before we even signed the contract. 

Rushing to get the contracts signed, she explains what else the negotiations entailed...

[00:10:24] They’re all saying get your name on that contract, get your name on that contract and so it was something that even as a way I started off wanting that 12 month settlement and the house that’s on there is certainly in need of TLC. There's a bit happening on been there and so I worked on that Sean and I would do a very very cosmetic and basic renovation get the property rented out. She could even have a say 11 months of rental going through the current agents that she employed to sell the property and get the income from that, but no that wasn't going to work either. So with lots of backwards and forwards there wasn't any qualms about the 1 percent that I offered on the deposit lower than 20 and then the balance at the end of the due diligence period. The due diligence period was another thing that was up for grabs. I had originally 45 days and then at the end of the 45 days for every day that we were over that for 45 days for another 14 days. For the fifth year alone we would pay another thousand dollars towards deposits. So in the end we paid the balance of the five percent at the end of the 59 days plus $1000 extra in deposits but that was a way of getting out and going and going from there. But it's a game and start to look at negotiating as a game and if people who you're negotiating with or with the agent that you're negotiating with if they laugh at you and turn round and don't put up with it. I always recommend to my clients that by 20 percent I'm for all the right reasons. That's where you might start to make good money. And I've had clients come back and say but the agents laughed at me enough and I said well in every state to my knowledge, it's compulsory that they have to put whatever you offer in and turn around and say I do this all the time and I've got some really good deals happening and obviously now I'm looking for a motivated agents to be working with and that probably doesn't fit your criteria so  I'm sorry about that. 

[00:12:48] Don't let you wear what other people are laughing at you for, turn around and make it work for you. In a nice way. I'm not talking about things sarcastic. Yes stand in your own power here. This is your game not theirs. 

[00:13:07] Did you put an option on this particular property or was that actually gonna be an outright buy settlement?

[00:13:12] I had to buy, an option would have been. 

[00:13:16] No way. And there was no one else bidding for the property. It's just further along 

[00:13:21] We got the more difficult the beneficiary became through fear. Fear that we you know something might happen which which of course you can't, because you’re in a binding contract but her fear basis of being naive and bless her heart was something that's worked against her and never owning property in her life. 

[00:13:45] All of these sorts of things to think that she could have got 11 months more money from you know rental that we were all happy to do the renovation and she have all of the income from all of that but couldn't think laterally on that level. 

While there was a chance that she could have lost that particular deal, McIntyre has gained invaluable lessons from that experience, including how handling the project as a group rather than individually, changed the entire end result…

[00:14:50] There's another deal. Don't spend all of your time crying over spilt milk. What did I learn from that experience? Even now to where we are with so much on that expense we'd be doing a lot of things differently. 

[00:15:04] But it's been even from my point of view of how far I can reach to connect with people to have sessions with them as I was fundraising. And fundraising for the individual one has to come on board to be part of the initial purchase to start off with and then all of a sudden it went to a different level where I had five guys and I was discussing with on buying out the whole deal. And it just went from individual contributors. You know I've got a hundred thousand or something to put into the deal to we will be, where we're coming in we want to finance the whole deal. We're talking about three and a half million finance, a 7 million dollar end result. So it jumped from being small time to big time with the investors even. 

However, bringing on money partners to this project was no easy feat. McIntyre reminds us that it only occured because of the due diligence she and her initial team completed...

[00:16:16] Although it started with our demand report and then that went to the childcare specialist he did profit losses and on year one that it was operating as a child care would be turning over five hundred and sixty four thousand in profit from year one. The second year when it was fully operational the projections were eight hundred ninety nine thousand profit before tax time. 

[00:16:49] But the thing is that you've got virtually a two year gap with nothing to start off with but you could have that property once you got up and operational you could have that property paid off in virtually five years. 

[00:17:02] That's right. That's right. So does that make the zoning as well on this particular property will need to change commercial later on?

[00:17:09] No it is still residential because there's lots of things you can do in that zoning we could build a childcare centre we could set up as B and B. 

[00:17:19] But because it is in a very treed area we've got to be very mindful of childcare because it's in the zone [and] in these zoning that we are, we can only build on 25 percent of that two thousand six hundred sixty two square metre block.

[00:17:35] That’s small, wow. 

[00:17:36] Absolutely. So we would have 84 children but then there's lots of profits with all of that along the way these days because cheap childcare centres of 84 are more sought after than what, you know 150 children would be. And also with working with the specialist, it's a very refined farm yard environment childcare with a goat and ducks and all of these sorts of things, lizards in an environment that are their. Alfresco inside instead of a dollar to feed a child on a daily basis, to pay a chef three dollars eighty per child. They would grow a lot of the vegetables and things outside where children are very protected in child in play yard environments not to hurt themselves and not to get bandaids. They're finding out more and more that this is not helping children on how to think they're taught what to think but not how to think. We're moving on. And so this is taking it back where the children might hurt themselves but strangely enough they don't - reports have shown because they're thinking through situations of thinking ahead and it’s helping them on all levels by reverting back to that sort of thinking. 

[00:19:02] So this would be a very unique childcare that would stand out against the normal run of the mill one's too. 

Taking an estimated two years to complete this whole project, McIntyre delves into the nitty gritty reevaluations she’ll undertake before deciding the end result of the project...

[00:19:18] Two years from start to finish and there's lots of things there even to get loans on building and things like that. You've got to have childcare experience from the bank's point of view. So you know will get the D.A. approval stage and we'll reassess at each stage to where we are but this might be the first one and that doesn't mean that there is a lot of childcare childcare has been done to death over the last five years. So there is good money to be made but knowing what we know now. Yes if we would go at it very, very differently and you know we would approach things, and having one under our belt plus all of these sorts of things at whatever stage we pull out. We know a lot more now than we did say even eight months ago. 

She also adds that part of this process of reassessing the project at each stage, means she’ll have multiple exit strategies behind this deal..

[00:20:17] We will assess the market where it is at whatever stage we're at. So we'll get to the approval stage then we might go onto the next stage which would be billed. We'd like to set it up and organize that at that stage all of that. It's virtually in the market that we're in at the moment and this is the beauty that we've got that we can sell it off at any stage. And this goes for when you're doing residential property too. So many clients would go and buy property. And yes they've got one strategy always from day one I've had it drummed in from my original mentor that I did so much with for years and he would always say give yourself a number of exit strategies. Where can you get out? Say with the buy, renovate, subdivide, sell. What would you do if you couldn't sell the raw sites? You could do a build and sell it off as a  land and house package for example. And all of the different stages to write down all of those stages before you even start on to negotiate on a deal because you don't know where the market is going. We want all situation if someone sick or you've got a better deal or you need money. So you've got to read the market at any point to find out when you will move on or what you'll do. 

Thinking back to the beginning of her property journey and how she’s come so far to have exit strategies and a consistent plan, McIntyre talks about the mentors she worked with...

[00:22:03] Once I started with my property and it was you know my passion and I put all into it and I just loved it and it was just became a way of life and those around me were talking property as well. And so from A Day with Jill that I started off I always felt that I wanted to get out and do more with coaching and so down the track I did different things. I did an online membership course and that was a couple of years with that mentor that I had, then I got in and I did life coaching and and that was another long term relationship I hope with that entity I did a business coaching course as well. So over the years I've spent a lot of money yes but I've also built on where I am to bring it in to be a life business and property coach and I’ve been doing this with my own business for the last 12 years or something like that. 

Tyrone Shum:
In relation to life more so than property, McIntyre shares the individuals she recommends you should follow, while talking about the books and mindsets they’ve taught her...

[00:23:11] On life, absolutely. I do a lot of work and I'll go follow a lot of a guy called Andy Shaw S H A W. And he's an English guy that was a property guru. 

[00:23:25] I just think his mind set and the thinking - he's got a couple of books that are audio books or Anmar and books and I'm a very firm follower and I get each of my clients to follow him as well. His thinking is so straightforward on you know if we can't change things from work to find a solution and the part that ego has in what we do on a daily basis to try and stop us from moving forward and getting out of our comfort zone. There's another guy and his name is John Assaraf (A S S A R A F) and he's an American guy. But both of them are and they're my main ones that I follow with what I do in mindset because it just follows on. 

It’s with this mindset that McIntyre recalls the most pivotal piece of advice she’s heard and how she came across it...

[00:24:17] There's no such thing as victims there’s only volunteers. 

[00:24:21] Wow that's very powerful. That's the first I've heard of that one. 

[00:24:26] And you know all those years after my husband died and life was just such a struggle and I mean a struggle and a half with things just on a daily basis. It was purely survival for me for years and for my children because we all tried to cope in different ways which was - we didn't have the tools back then, we didn't have the support because to be a widow at 39 with two young children was a rarity. Where now there are so many single parents but we were doing it alone on many levels there just wasn’t the support. And one a very dear friend of mine came home and came to dinner one night and she said I've just been to a workshop and I've heard some very powerful statements. There's no such thing as victims as only volunteers and I thought What have I been doing? 

[00:25:21] What have I been doing? 

[00:25:22] And it's mindset, it's all mindset. And you know that comes back to me time and time and time again. And yes I share that with clients too. Because we can very easily fall into that trap when things aren’t right. We start to implode instead of having a mind shift to think about okay this just the problem where we spend 90 percent of our time, what's the solution? And there's another good one is Einstein’s quote, “If I had an hour to solve a problem I'd spend the first 55 minutes on the problem because once I found the solution very, very quickly it’d only take me five minutes to move on.” And this is where another mind shift at the thing that we've got to, if there's a problem like the childcare type that I found the problem was that I couldn't do multi dwelling and I couldn't subdivide. So what would be the solution? And the more that you can start to be thinking about solutions. 

[00:26:29] Yeah, man oh man the world opens up for you. 

With a focus on solutions and keeping the end goal in mind, McIntyre explains a personal habit she has...

[00:26:49] I'm pretty methodical about working on me and I always say as I was presenting a week back and I get up and in one part of that particular presentation. I said we'll put petrol in our car and make it run, how much petrol do we put into ourselves. What do we give back and this is where we leave our souls to laugh most of us and this high on a go and put new first which as you know most people don't come from. And we've got to give back with self confidence self-worth who we argue gratitude on what we're doing start to build a team that could come from integrity. 

[00:27:34] You've got to. Integrity is my number one shilling and I won't take a client on board if I feel that I can't help them and one guy said gee that's strange. You know you're not going to take my money if you feel that you can't help me, that would be a rarity these days. And I said I if I can't help you I don't want to take money. So that's where I come from an integrity point of view that if I want to see people grow and move forward and I get just as much of a kick out of it as watching on and being a part of that privilege spaces as what they do. But equally so they've got to be ready to get out of their comfort zone when they come and want to work with them too. 

She adds that this personal habit is not only for her own benefit or interest, but for the benefit of her clients… 

[00:28:36] Because I do so much with personality profiling when a clerk comes on board with me they've got to do a personality profile for a start. They've got to do a preliminary assessment. So before I even start with the first session with them I know more about them than they want to know about themselves. So I can pin them up without any problems whatsoever. You know I have to when I was presenting with Matt Jones. That's been my client. I originally started with me about 11 years ago and that's Matt Jones I'm sure a lot listening will know that Jones from Property Resource Shop from property networking groups and when that started with me you had about six people and you speed up groups where now he's got a hundred and fifty athletes to be made up and working through all of this from my point of view as a coach. I've got guys in Perth who are just doing the same things that I work on and change their lives. But I can't change it. They change and I just give them the tools and I just walk by their side. And yeah it's pretty exciting from my point of view I reap the benefits on a daily basis and how privileged I am to be in that. That all started with me starting to train my own life around and there comes a marlin in other people. 

Taking a trip down memory lane, McIntyre shares the advice she would’ve told herself 10 years ago...

[00:30:27] Well, never ever look over your shoulder. Just keep on going. And there's lots of things looking back that I would take on because of my low self-esteem. 

[00:30:42] Years and years ago I would be taking on. Of they would stop me here years ago, they would hinder my growth I'd be re-evaluating situations in the head. Where these days I move forward very, very quickly in thinking about what the problem is. Have I made a mistake or has it been a growth spurt and there aren’t mistakes in my life these days, they’re growth spurt and I wish I knew that 10 years ago. Because out of everything that we do always turn around. Even the childcare site for example turned round and how could we have done this differently? How could we have done it better? Who did we need to bring on to our team? And this all comes with confidence but also networking and connecting with people who are on the same train as what you are. So all of those years ago I would have said it wasn't a case of not giving up because I've never given up. In fact that fire in the belly is stronger now than it ever has been. And yes I love the passion that it gives me on a daily basis and all of the connections because I do so much with nothing new in an advance property strategy usually you know with all of his clients as well. So you know I'm very, very fortunate. I reaped so many benefits but also too there’s so much that if we can work as one and as a whole, the whole world would be a very different place and yes keep on going. 

On another note, aside from her current property project, McIntyre explains that she’s also excited to be working with others in the future and sharing her expertise in the property field.

[00:32:32] Well it was only last week I was approached by a guy who's in property from a different angle than what I was and he said, “I bought a property and two street frontage and it's got a house and it looks pretty feral at the moment and it’s rented out.” And he said I'd like to take you on board on a basis that could be invoiced. Or would you like to come on board. I just want to learn from you and all of these things even like the childcare. I haven't got a share from the deal. And I said to him Yes I'd like to come on as a joint venture partner and it's opportunities that are there once you start to value what you'll find the is all about what's really good and then you start to be working on that and building upon that and monetizing it and then work will come to you and things will come to you. I'm excited for where that opportunity with that guy will go. And yes he's he's well and truly in the business and can stand alone and live in what he does is awesome in his own field of expertise. And he's coming to me for support to learn my way of doing it. 

Tyrone Shum: [00:33:51] You are very very lucky. How much of your success do you think is of your skill in intelligence and how work and how much of it is because of luck. 

With so much proven success in McIntyre’s journey so far, she explains why she attributes her success to intelligence and skill, and why one’s mentality in life can alter the outcome anytime…

[00:34:02] Well there's a beautiful saying that our success is 70 percent psychological. And we only need a total of 30 percent as our skill and skill and our knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. And everything that we're doing whether it be property or business or on a personal level with relationships that you've got. It all comes back to your thinking. What happened between your ears. 

[00:34:35] The rest of it all flows in. Yes you do need some knowledge, you do need some knowhow and things like that but there's a very good equation I set out for clients some time. So that's thinking multiplied by your actions gets you the results you’re getting today by and by thinking I mean is it a positive thinking, are you in the right mindset to be solving problems. 

[00:35:05] So that's where you're thinking side of that equation comes in. Then by actions and people get confused very much with education. If we going to a workshop that workshop is education, it is not action. Action is when you actually implement what you've learnt pull your sleeves up get out of your comfort zone and have a go. So if you multiply by your thinking multiply by your real actions your results will probably change what you've got happening today. 

[00:35:38] Absolutely. Wow that is phenomenal. Well Jill were pretty much at the end of the podcast. Let's let the listeners know in the audience what's the best way they can connect with you if they want to find out more about what you do in services and so forth. 

[00:35:54] Well there's a couple of ways you can email me. Jill J i l l dot McIntyre. M c I n t y r e 0 1 at gmail dot com. Or you can have a look at my website WWW decide believe begin become dot com 

Thank you to Jill McIntyre, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.