is brought to you by Safety Eyes Streaming Safety FM dot life Hello and welcome to a new episode of the J. Allen Show. Today's marks, the 31st of 2020 originally this episode was scheduled to come out on Friday of last week due to some technical issues, were unable to release it. Anyways. I hope everything's going well with you and yours. So with everything going on across the world currently, I wanted jump directly and have this conversation with you and get rolling right away. Today's interview is what Drew Hidden Drew with currently a director of safety for Industrial Service Solution Process Equipment Services group overseeing the HSE professionals at five operating companies across the United States.  So today I want to jump in, have a conversation with Drew. You talk a little bit about everything about him. What's going on in the world currently in his perspective, on what's going on. So I don't want to waste a lot of your time, So let's get this rolling here on the J Allen show. Drew. Welcome to the show. Morning, Drew. How are you? Good. How are you, sir? Well, pretty good. Go. Don't do the searching, It throws me off. I think my father's in the room.  I hear that a lot. So how are things in your neck of the woods? Uh, there's their stead either. Locally in the county that I'm in, they are. We don't have any confirmed cases of the cove in 19 but every county around us is has some. So it's starting starting to creep up on us. God. God. Well, I'm in Orlando, so okay, You can already imagine on what the cluster is here, right? It's just one of those things that, of course, people tend to come here because the sun and there is a lot more people coming in and people are freaking out.  Not sure. And then, of course, spring. Break that. And they had pretty much everything open. So they were not if that was good, bad or indifferent, because they want to help the economy. But I think they might have just started a cluster without realizing. Yeah, that's right. So I want to tell you originally, when I contacted you, as you are aware, we had went back and forth. You have been posting quite a bit on social media so I was interested in a lot of the stuff that you were doing.  So the original intent was to have you on and discuss your career and go through that whole thing when we're kind of in a small, different world at this particular moment. So talk a little bit about everything. If you're okay with that, sure, let's go. So the way that I look at it is I look at it this way we can start off with what impact are you seeing in your area As you were already discussing. So the area that you're in and I know that you're kind of several different fields at the same time to Are you hearing or seeing something that is not being reported on the media or you seeing stuff kind of in a different perspective?  Um, I mean, there's a few things that are not getting reported on the media. Um, I've got a several physicians that I'm friends with, that working the your departments of various hostels around the area and also have been doing ah, an ongoing research project on the Kobe 19. So been talking toe different epidemiologist and toxicologist across the country But one of the biggest things that I've seen, at least in our area, is that the misconception that there are enough test and which is Ferrari went right now it's It's completely not true every year.  Physician, I've talked to you. They said they they're having a triage and pick who they want to test and who they're not going to test. So that's that's crucial for businesses to understand. Do you need to just take the two weeks or 14 days self quarantine at home, or do you need to go to get the test? So the way the kind of the media is portraying it on some some outlets, I should say no, all of them. But some media, Alex will tell you, You know, if you think you have symptoms, go ahead and get tested, which in my opinion, is not the best option.  A lot of the more the sources that I really rely on that are more factual will tell you that Don't go get tested unless you're having stepped. Fear trouble, you know, difficulty breathing. You're in high risk category and your experience about the symptoms around here. The police, the state of Kentucky is pretty. They're pretty strict and they're very mapping. Your very proactive governor, Beshear has been noted on several news outlets, is being some of the most aggressive governors in the country. As far as how active he was before, we even had a lot of a lot of cases in the country here in the state.  So it's it's really a matter of which, which media alley you look at. But you're starting to see your government here actually put in today at 8 p.m. All that used to be all non essential businesses had to close, and now he changed it to all non life sustaining businesses. After close tonight, March 26th at 8 p.m. So that's gonna put a hand for a lot of businesses around our across to come with a Kentucky. So I'm interested to see what you know, what kind of a major impact it's gonna play.  So you're certainly a lot of companies that are laying people off left and right, So I'm interested to see what this closing of all non life essential business is going to do for the state. So as you as you're seeing this And if you don't mind me asking, of course you seen this starting as of today, Have they even a timeline for how long will be closed for or they're closing it down for it said indefinitely, Most of the actions that the governor's been taken has kind of been in two week increments, and that's kind of an unofficial terminology.  I guess you could say it doesn't really come out and say that, but usually about every two weeks, he'll update. It is protocol. So, um, I'm for saying just kind of sticking with that and going in two weeks, we'll hear another update that I don't I don't first see that getting let up any time soon In my opinion, okay? And the reason and that's going to go through a couple of things. I want to make references to the audience. Of course, you are a PhD student. This is why I'm asking some of these questions directly like this.  I just want to make sure that people are aware of that. Not just being You were just kind of sitting here going. What do you think was the ball? Just just be okay with that. I mean right now before actually jumped on. I want to say that they were saying that the unemployment there was 3. 2 million and change people that had filed for unemployment. So if this is what you're seeing in Kentucky, I'm wondering what how this is going to impact going forward. Regardless, they start closing non crucial businesses because, I mean, let's be realistic that essential business lists that they have open it covers quite a few things.  One last night And what would we even had a liquor store? Liquor stores? I was like, Okay, I understand from being locked up for a period of time, you might not want to kill someone with Liquid Might help. You know, that's really essential. Yeah, I kind of war did the same when I saw that list as well, um, but I was kind of kind of trying to figure out where that where they're going with it. But yeah, it's it's There's quite a few businesses and and what I've seen is a lot of businesses that are there trying to find loopholes tour.  They can stay up and running, trying to find loopholes toe where to say that they're supporting some of the critical infrastructure, which some of them are, some of for not, but they're trying their best. I've seen a lot of companies trying do their best to find that loophole so that they could stay up and running at whatever cost it may be. Well, I mean, it's a very interesting times and some of the stuff that's going on because you're seeing a lot of people being laid off. But what they're saying, OK, you're being laid off this way you can file for unemployment, which that's understood, But then you have the look state to state because each state's a little bit different on what percentage of your income you're potentially going to get was speaking to somebody from Nevada a few days ago and they had reference that Nevada was only 4% of your total of your total income, which that's not really gonna put you in a very good spot.  I mean, I guess something's better than nothing most people are forgetting about is that automatically? When you get laid off, you lose health benefits or any benefits that you have, so how are you looking at this? And I know that we're kind of going a little bit generic in general, on some of the conversation. But what are you seeing there? Do you Are you noticing some of these very odd things on how this now with universal health care and I know this can almost become a political rants?  I want to be very, very careful right on how I go here, but it almost seems like it's a necessity to an extent. I mean, I think it's really weird because this is the opportunity for people to go to the ballot box. And I've said this on some of the other shows where you can vote if you're in the Democratic Party, where you have the opportunity of actually voting for a guy who wants universal health care or and the other guy that's going to open to the idea.  And of course, you know, we have some people that are already in the White House that have their own 80 on how things are done, and I'm not saying ones good ones wrong, but what your thought frost as on the whole thing? Yeah, it's kind, like you said that I think I was reading this morning that the the total unemployment was like four times the previous record that they had for total employment cases. So I don't think the country as a whole. In general. I know some it's different from side to side, but I don't think we were ready as far as looking all the indirect in indirect effects of this pandemic and like use like you mentioned with the health care costs.  And you know you can get Cobra to the extent that you can, and they're passing there slowly, passing some of these these legislative legislative executive orders to where you know you can get extra extra sick days and the government of Reimburse You at the end of the year reimburse the company the end of the year. But yes, it's not. It's not something I don't think that we were properly prepared for from a company standpoint or from a country as a whole. Like I said, it's it's very sites to site, Um, but I know they are.  A lot of a lot of organizations and companies are giving people the option to, uh, differ some of the payments. Yes, you see a lot on social media on the news. We're, you know, landlords or deferring payments for rent for companies and allowing them to use that to pay their employees. But even with student loans and all these other different things, they're allowing you to t differ that you know that payment for, you know, different types, different periods, you know, one month, two months, three months, whatever it may be, so that you can pay off the essentials.  So, like you said, you're losing your employer benefits, so you're losing that portion that they're paying. And so it's. But a lot of people don't realize how much it actually costs out of pocket. So you don't realizing that your company's paying for, you know, 30 40 50% cost of your health insurance, and you're even though you're paying. Sometimes it seems like a lot that's usually about half the call, so it's definitely, definitely a big impact. I don't think a lot of people were adequately prepared for That's and that's what they're all scrambling for is there were fouling unemployment and likely either they're waving that that grace period where you can you have to wait and they're waving all the you know the requirements.  We have to go and look for jobs there, waving a lot of those requirements to where you can get your unemployment quicker. And, of course, the you know, the stimulus is going through the house right now. Try to get that passed. So hopefully that'll help. But I mean, like you mentioned with the one state that has 4% you know, benefits. I mean, that's that's not a whole lot of better than nothing, but it z really not a lot. So I think people are going to start with it enough coming weeks really setting in.  And that's, you know, I made a post on LinkedIn. Think was yesterday. Today, before four companies are needing to look at the psychological first aid aspect of things, you know, we're taking in consideration the business expect how to keep the business up and running, and also how we keep our employees from being affected and passing on meal, maybe being asymptomatic carriers of the Kobe 19 and passing on to somebody else. But also, what are we doing? Teoh Help comfort income or employees and reassure them and take care of that psychological First Aid J. island show.  Have you learned about a human and organisational performance and you wanted more, or now is your chance. Fisher Improvement Technologies is conducting an advanced H. O P. Practitioner workshop. Now is your opportunity to learn these advanced hop techniques in this two day workshop that is designed to give leaders the ability to understand and manage integrations of advanced air, a reduction in organizations Participants are provided with multiple experiential learning opportunities to ensure they could use the information in their day to day interactions. Firm or information, go to pharaoh hp dot com.  That is e r o hp dot com, and click on the link that says Open enrollment on We Are Back on the J. Allen show on Safety FM. I think you almost knew exactly what I was going to ask you next, cause that's exactly are you being a safety director of an organization? That's what I was wondering. What are your people thinking about the things that are going on? What effect is it having psychologically on them? And then what is going on with them? Are they thinking about you know, the different things that that are going on and then what happened are have you guys had to lay some people off?  Or if you're not allowed to talk about it, I understand that. You sure? Yeah, it's It's really so I will receive the HSE departments for five operating companies across the country, and it's it really varies from side to side. We've got some guys that completely blow it off and they're giving you the use of its. You know, its just the flu is not a big deal. Um, and then there's other guys. They're they're literally worried for their jobs. They're worried for their families and everything else. You know, it's I mean, there's cos they're laying off people left and right in and are my community, Um, and, you know, and and other states as well.  So what we're doing is we're just constantly you extended complete contact with them and saying, You know, it's going to get tough. It's gonna get It's going to get 1st 4 gets better. But you know we're here for you. Of course, our company and a lot of companies as well like this have you know the employee assistance programmes The A peace offer through the HR Department. A lot of companies have that and don't eat allows that, but it's a great resource that they can do that with. But, I mean, simply checking Anil guys, you know, I went into the shop the other day just going out to the shop and talked to the guys that have been working from home for several weeks.  We're just going out there and talking to him for a little bit and he'll still keeping my six foot social distance. Um, going on, talk to him, just asking how everything's going and you know, they you know, they'll tell you. So it's It's good to see a good to see you around or get to see a face once in a while and actually talk about these things. You know, my philosophy is is, you know, a lot of people have the same ones. You don't sugarcoat it If it's I'm very transparent.  When it comes to safety, health, safety, environment or whatever it may be, I'm 100% transparent. So if if it's if it's bad out there, I'll let you know when you're gonna know my stance on, and if it's good, then I'll let you know that as well. So that's my my stance is you Be honest with him. You will learn that back from my days in the AMS is you know, if you if we had a patient was working in minutes, if we had a patient that was in a grave situation, you know, they were having cardiac arrest, whatever.  It may be a pretty serious situation. For one thing, I was taught from the very beginning was never tell the family That's gonna be okay. I always tell him something. You were doing everything we can to do the best we can. They're in good hands. But if you tell them, everything will be okay and that person passes away, they're losing trust for you, from you, for from the get go. So I kind of think that approach from from our workplace, the safety standpoint as well as reassure them with action that you're taking, um, you know, be honest with him.  Tell him if it's if it's if you think it's gonna get worse or the governor. The president said this. This is this, you know, let him know what's going on. Um, no, of course, there are some things that you, uh you may need to withhold just to keep from overwhelming them. But, you know, deal with pandemics of the past. It's, you know, you want your people to be informed as much as possible. You know, just kind of getting back to the to the Fire and M s days was, you know, when we had the Ebola outbreak, of course, that wasn't a lot of people that it were infected with Ebola in the U. S. But we made some runs on people that felt they had it.  And that was the one thing that they probably top thing I heard from patients that we responded to was you. I wish I had more information on what it was, so I wouldn't worry so much. So that's that's part of the biggest thing is just, um, you know, making sure your employer and formed with with accurate information. So I tried to tell the guys Everywhere I go, I said, No, don't pick, pick, pick who you're listening to, which media sources you're listening to make sure it's a reputable source because, you know, you know, just will is out of some media sources of blow things out of proportion and then get people with the hyped up as much they can.  So it's it's really tell us. Up is far is where you go. So, like I said, some people take it seriously and they're worried for families worried about losing their jobs. And then other people were just completely blow it off this thing. And it's just a fluke, you know, we all know it's not so So what do you What do you thinking it overall, If you don't mind me asking, of course, having the MT. Background of where they're saying Okay, you can go stand in line. And I'm not talking about the car lines.  I'm talking about where you go physically, stand in line to get tested, to see if you have it or not. Do you think this is a good idea or a bad idea based on your previous experience? But as long as you doing your social distancing when that that portion of its fine my concern is it gets into having enough test which most the places air not gonna test you unless you check all the boxes on the criteria. If you have all the symptoms you're around. Somebody that was traveling to an area that may have had it or, you know, they were treating somebody that may have had it most places that are doing this testing in line, they will make sure your you're checking all the boxes.  Now there, of course, there is a risk that you, you know, sometimes contracted. And it's, you know, it's one thing that flossed with enough lift off of his you could make all these rules and policies Administrator control was no steer six foot social distancing. Wash your hands. But you have to plan for people not to follow that. You know, they're not gonna get 100% of planets with every single policy. So you have to plan for people not to follow those guidelines and somebody somebody's gonna get within six feet.  Somebody's gonna call for not cover their mouth or whatever it may be. So you have to plan for that. So with these, I think it's I think it's good to keep if they're doing it in a clinic setting or an outside setting. I've seen on the news a lot of people that were doing it. Basically, they drive up in their car and get tested. The medical professionals roll the window down and do the test right there on the site. That's not as bad, but I think a big benefit of that is there keeping these patients out of the ER so that the ers can focus more on the life threatening situations people that actually need care rather than doing some of the basic triage and things that maybe could have been taken care of.  Ah, normal physician, we'll have to bring this up because the reason why I ask the question is like in the area that I'm currently in, the convention center is opening up or has opened up where they're doing tests and they're making people stand in line. And, of course, if you're 65 or older, kind of guarantee that you're gonna get a test if you're for 40 or younger and I don't know what the hell happens between 41 to 64 I broke a story. But if you're 40 and younger than they kind of make you go through a whole checklist scenario, that's the reason why I asked the question.  If you don't mind me asking what's going on with schooling right now. I know that your student for a PhD I have they actually moved all your stuff, your coursework online or what's taking place right now? Yes. Oh, so my courses were online already, but they have been getting notification emails from the colleges as well on their in person classes. And they've moved all those two online. I know all of the least here in Kentucky, all the major, um, educational facilities University, Kentucky, Louisville, West, Kentucky. All the big the big universities colleges have moved to online.  Um, and I have ah. Ah, daughter. That's in elementary school when they're out, at least until April 20th. That was the governor's order in about Honestly, I don't for see them going back toe, You know, I don't I don't see them. Going back to the rest of the year is because of how much they missed already. Um, you're talking about school year? Are you talking about, like, the rest of school year? So I was like, Whoa, yeah, I didn't know. Know if they're out till April 20th So they have no right around a month left in the whole school year to begin with, So I don't I don't for see them just because the situation that's continuously rising, we're getting more cases, I think I think in Kentucky we've got probably close to 100 and 50 give or take cases right now. Confirmed.  Um And I think last night we had, like, 30 30 somewhat cases in a 24 hour period that were confirmed. So we're we're starting to get a major increase in hours, so I don't I don't forsee personally our elementary school systems and, you know, the great school systems going back the rest of the school year. Um, I would say that the university colleges will will stay with them online systems like mine. Mine was online to begin with, but you know, they had already transitioning that as well. And I have talked to a few students that were doing in person classroom courses at Western Kentucky in eastern Kentucky.  There, if they've never done on my courses, they're struggling with trying to transition of that. So that's just a stress factor. Jay, I want to tell you about something special that we have coming up. This will actually be taking place on April 1st at three o'clock eastern time. On safety of them. Welcome to a special presentation of a campfire talk featuring Bob Edwards, Mark Eastern, Todd Conklin and hosted by J. Allen exclusively on safety FM. And we are back on the J. Allen Show on safety FM. So what is your degree in if you're that you're going for?  If you don't want your doctor better saying yes. So I'm going from PhD and occupational health and safety, so as your as your doing this. What? What was your original projection on graduation, If you don't mind me asking, Of course, that's a lot of putting a lot of pressure. You know, all these people know this. You know, I'm planning on graduating at the end of 2021 or like, January 2022. So within the next year and 1/2 or so is the goal. Now, is this gonna change what your dissertation was gonna be about?  No, Um, my guest today is gonna be the same up. I I thought about doing something about all this this pandemic issue, but I'm actually gonna be doing a dissertation on the, um impairment effects or lack thereof on CBD products within sex sensitive workers. So there's not been a whole lot of studies on that. So I'm gonna try toe figure out one way. The other thing. This might be a good time to start using, but that's a whole other thing. No kidding. So what s O as we have this conversation?  We kind of talk a little bit about everything here, and I know trying to make some of this light and it's a very difficult time to do this. What are you seeing as some of the biggest things that are coming out of this in regards of what? Having an impact your day in and day out work? I know that you you're saying that your people want want you to be honest and upfront on what's going on. Well, what are you seeing? Is, are let's call it what it is, what we do for a living, how it's how it's having such a huge impact.  I did see a post that you were actually going back and forth on earlier this morning about how, before some of the first people that are let go of and this was somebody else's post that the first things that people let go of is there is a safety position. So how can you tell the people that are in our in our little niche of work on that? That won't be the case or what? Can you tell them to almost give some kind of assurance? Or is that something that's not even there at this particular point?  I mean, honestly, I wish I could say I wish that I could say there was assurance from across the board, but it's really gonna be a site specific. It depends on your safety culture. You know, I worked at different companies and Yocum in the company's and see such cultures completely relaxed. They don't, you know. They don't value safety. They want, you know, put safety on the back of somebody else in the company and let him share responsibilities. And you have somebody that says, Hey, I want I want to say here on the on the forefront, that is our top priority.  That is our core value when we're gonna honor that. Um, you know, my my recommendation is do as much from a safety standpoint. If you're If you're in a professor state professional role right now, do as much. Research is studying on from reliable sources that you can to increase your preparedness. You know, even if you have cases in your area or cases in your county and your own, you know, shelter and place orders. You can still start looking to see what trends are happening and figure out what's what's possibly come in the future so that you can let your employees her employer, be aware of what actions may be coming.  So that's that's the big point is you want to make your employer. You have to make them see your value and what you bring in the table. If they think that is just something anybody else could do, then, yes, you may be one of those people that are cut on, and you don't like it like that. The linked in post this morning, it's it's it's It's sad unfortunate that their companies out there that will safety is the 1st 1 to cut. But I mean, just like everything else, this is a technical technical field that has specialized expertise, you know, engineers, you know, I wouldn't want an engineer be doing safety, and I wouldn't want to be doing engineering and so on and so forth.  You know, sometimes you can you intertwine and bounce out there's off each other and help each other out. But it's really like it's fine to niche that that we do. So I think the biggest point is that you have to, you know, basically brag on yourself and I mean for lack of better turns. But show what you're bringing to table. Show your worth and really I mean, really, Buster. But in the in these times, So this is a pandemic that you know this capacity. You know, not a lot of people is gonna be able to say that they've experienced that, actually had a you ah, hand in trying to plan it out, prepare forward and react to it.  You know, moving forward, we could say we're being proactive. If we ever have another one like this again, hopefully we don't. But we have to make sure we're using this is learning experience. You know, the company that I work for? We've got, you know, operating companies across the United States, from Alaska to Florida, the New York and everywhere in between. So one of things we all we all share within sight, decide is looking at You know what's going on in Washington. What's going on in New York City?  What's going on here so we can understand the loopholes. We can understand the things that are working for them, the things that are not working for them and try to apply that. So, you know, yesterday we had, um the, uh, Coffee County in Kansas is which is where my actual employer is that they issued a shelter in place. You stay at home order for all non essential, your nonessential visits. So our guys will still be working because we we do support to critical infrastructure. But let's take up.  That's taking a big impact on that. So especially within a safety field. Yes, we can do a lot from home and you up myself up in working from home for several weeks now, but when you when you disappear from the office, when you disappear from the field, you know field service sites and you're not seeing you as much, it does decrease the morale a little bit to your employees, and I say a little bit for my for my company. It may be a lot for others, but it does decrease them around when they're saying, Hey, I have to come to work.  Why is this guy getting stay at home for 23 weeks? Whatever. You haven't seen him in a month. So that's why I try to come in. And, you know, every now and then it just come in and spend so little time keeping that social distancing. But talk to the guys, just let me know. Hey, I know I'm not here in the office, but, you know, I'm just a phone call away. Text me whatever it may be. You know, if you need something, I'm you know, I live six minutes away from my work place.  So you always emphasized, Hey, if you need something, you like to be the right away. So what would be the best advice you give to a safety professional right now in regards of how to be able to handle this, And I'm not talking about what they need to do our work just handling from the standpoint of the things that you're seeing beings, you oversee somebody, different sites right. My biggest thing is to really reach out to your local, your local departments, your local health department. If you have a good connection and communication with your local hospital local medical facility, that's That's something I've been blessed with in heaven having several connections within the medical field just because I came from the medical field so I can have the luxury of talking with physicians and everything else.  But that's part of the biggest thing is to reach out to your local local authorities. Your health department, your hospitals that they flick hands of people may differ your way cause they're too busy, but it just really stay in touch with them and try to figure out a building, really build a relationship with him. Like I said, some people were want to send people to the hospital from the first sign of symptom. But you know, it may be just the flu, and they want to send to get tested.  Figure out what your hospital figure out what your health department's recommendations are at your local area. Figure out what they want to do, so if they say hey, you have to have these four symptoms and this. All these criteria communicate that to your employees so that they know you know what's what's recommended. If you have this, then you're gonna self quarantine home. If you have this, then we'll send you the hospital, get to get tested out. But as far as a you know, like I said, with the sacrificial, it's just really about reaching out to as many resource as you can and linked in.  That's consistently former social media I have is linked in, but it's a great resource. I'm gonna you know, people that don't have it. It's a great place to network. Even if you're just bouncing ideas off somebody across the country, you basic. You may find out something that's maybe you weren't aware of, but again, just especially looking from state to state or even city to city within your state. Just look at those trends and what's going on to figure out where where your area may be heading now, Drew.  If people want to find more information out about you kind already answered it, but I'll ask you to give the plug to your own to your own linked in page. I guess for them to actually be able to follow You sure? Yeah. Just gonna linked in. And you know, when he was Drew hitting h I nto in and you confound me on their on and I'll be border than more than happy toe. No answering questions or help out give you some guidance. You will not tell anybody from the get go.  I don't claim to know everything, but if I don't know something else, I'll find an answer at least points in the right direction. Somebody that doesn't have the answer so I can help out as much as possible. And you're not maxed out on and on connections or anything like that. Where the oldest have to be able to fall right is one of double check, but not yet. OK, we'll truly let's do this because I know that, you know, kind of some strange times. I would love to have you back on at some point where we could have a normal conversation where it's not just a little related to Kobe 19 and discover some information with the audience and what's going on in your world.  I really do appreciate you coming on to the show. Absolutely appreciate it. Well, this brings another episode of the J. Allen show to an end. I appreciate Drew hidden. Taking the time today to have the discussion with us, we'll be back with another episode of the J. Allen Show. Before you know it, take care of yourself for the time being. Goodbye for now. The more you listen, the more we get into your head. 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