Safety FM with Jay Allen
Nathan Braymen
March 24, 2020
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speaks with The Red Beard, Nathan Braymen from The Safety Justice League. Red speaks about his career, how the SJL formed. Why Jo Piña opted to leave the group at the beginning, and why LIGMA was so important to him during the recent Safety FM's Town Hall. Enjoy it all today on The Jay Allen Show
this show is brought to you by safety eyes streaming on safety FM dot life Hello and welcome to the Jay Allen Show,. Normally I start off by telling you that I hope that everything's fine and great in your neck of the woods. But I know in, you know, based on everything that's going on right now, that might be a difficult bill to actually give it this particular moment. So maybe we take a different approach today. Maybe we take the approach of Let's go down the path and let's go down and talk about some things that are not on the main focus of the news.  Let's talk about things that are going on inside of the world of safety. Don't get me wrong, but maybe having the conversation from a different perspective. So today I have the privilege and the honor of speaking with Nathan Bremen. Most people know him as Red Beard. So today we actually take an in depth dive on how Nathan Bremen went for bringing Nathan Bremen to becoming the Red Beard. And you're gonna go. Are you treating these people? It's two different characters. No is the same person, but let's just kind of look at it this way.  Imagine the red beard is Nathan Bremen turned up at a level 10. Let's get into that conversation now with the man known as the Red Beard and listen to some of his struggles right at the beginning of the interview right here on the G l Joe, you're dealing with those problems, and I'm having my struggle. Is trying Thio juggle my mustache with my microphone. I also drink my coffee. Well, that could definitely be a problem. So, Nate, I want to have your because number one I feel that I have not had you on.  And I think that I have multiple ones of our little podcast network have had you on. And I was like, Why am I behind the April? That's wine. And then number two, as I've been going around before, you even did the safety Justice Lee. You were everywhere. And I mean, I guess I noticed the beard and recognize a beard. But I never kind of went down hunting, sip, figuring out what the hell the beard was all about. So I don't even know where to start. I kind of have so many questions for you in regards of what you've done and things that you're currently doing.  But I guess I'll ask the normal in a simple question. How did the whole safety story start for you? Oh, wow. Okay, let's see. Well, for me, it started in the Marine Corps. Um, I ended up as ah ah, Firefighter. Well, I should back up a little bit When I joined the Marine Corps was right after 9 11 I remember looking at our I C. I was at a community college working on my on my degree. I didn't even know what I wanted to do, but I was taking some Jen, it's I just got out of high school, basically, Ah, first semester of ah, of my college career.  And I remember standing in the lunch room, and I and the 9 11 happened, and I remember watching it on the TV there, and that ended up leading me to join the Marine Corps. And when you joined the Marine Corps back in those days, you couldn't pick. Um, you know what your mos was what your military occupational specialty was going to be? You could only pick you can only request certain. Siri's and so one of the, you know, as I was looking through all the different options, Um, I saw a 7000 series, which was Airfield Service's, and I thought, Well, that would be interesting.  And within that was was crash, fire and rescue. And I thought, I think that would be kind of what I want to do. But I couldn't request it. And so it was kind of low, roll the dice. So I joined ah, went through boot camp and then got very lucky and got selected for crash Fire Rescue, um, ended up with ah with an injury and was given the choice. I could either stay in with the injury and not be promotable because if you can't complete your pft or your physical fitness test that you can't get promoted.  So, um, I was just a lowly lance corporal at the time, and, um, I stayed in for a little while longer, trying to see if I could recover from the injury and and I could not. And so I was given an honorable discharge, decided I wanted to go back to school. Um, so I went back to school for fire science. Finish my fire science degree. And then I knew I wanted to continue on with a bachelor's degree. And the closest thing I could find at my local university, which is I was State University, was occupational safety.  So, you know, I just kind of kind of stumbled my way into it from the firefighting perspective and doing some research and seeing that safety jobs were in demand. It was a good career path. So, um, you know, ended up getting my bachelors and masters from Iowa State and occupational safety. So let me just ask you a couple questions there, then do you want to join the military of nine? 11? Wouldn't occurred. Correct. Okay. Yep. That's what That's the triggering moment for me. Was you know, it It moved me to go join the Marine Corps.  And did you already have an interest in fire safety at the time Or where the world that Where did that passion come from? Yeah, not really. I mean, it really grew from, you know, I got to go to Ah, it's in San Angelo, Texas. They have the fire academy, um, called Louis F. Garland Fire Academy. So I went there and there's a 3 to 4 month There's a form of training course, um, learning everything from wildland firefighting techniques to structural firefighting, Thio, airport, firefighting. And you know, that's that's really what got me into firefighting was just kind of a roll of the dice.  I just kind of ah, you know, the fate to kind of push me in that direction and, you know, with an injury, I couldn't be a firefighter. And so the reason I went to get a fire science degree was I thought I wanted to build on my certifications because I'm a fully certified firefighter. And I thought, Well, maybe I could be an arson investigator. And so you know more of the administrative side of the firefighting realm. Um, and so you know, if later found out that those jobs are so rare and they don't pay that well and they're typically there's high competition for him anyway.  So, um, had had a shift gears and ended up on safety that way. So what year we talking about so or so the injury? Did it occur shortly after being in? So are we talking like 2002 at the time or okay. Yeah, 2002. Exactly. I graduated high school in, uh, in 2001 and I went into the Marine Corps in 2002. And then I got discharged. 2003. I was only in for about a year and 1/2. Yeah. Wow. I mean, so I did not know that part of your story. I really didn't. I I mean, I there's so many things that I find online about you.  I mean, let's be realistic, because people look and I look. And, of course, the beard is kind of the trademark, at least when people see you. Which is which is a good thing. We need to figure out how you how you got to that. And I'm sure people ask you that question all the time. Once you actually get out of this, what do you do next? Once you're actually honorably discharged, you go back to school. Do you go back? Any kind of path of work at the time, Or you kind of just focusing on mostly on school now actually worked full time as a manager of ah of ah, like a video rental store.  What is that now? I'm joking. I'm joking. Yeah, Yeah, right, right. They're still around. Where? Where's the Yeah, well, they have. Like, when I was there, they had 550 stores. And I think now they're over 1200 I'm pretty sure they're still going. You're despite your everybody using streaming. You're joking. No, no, I'm serious. They have 1200 stores that still do video rentals. I would never believe that. I would never believe that. I was watching John Oliver year ago, two years ago at this point, and he was talking about they were closing down the last blockbuster, and I think a blockbuster and bring it.  But, man, I wouldn't figure that was still a popular thing. Please. J Island Show. Have you learned about a human and organizational performance? And you wanted more, Or how is your chance? Fisher Improvement Technologies is conducting an advanced H. O. P. Practitioner workshop. Now is your opportunity to learn these advanced hop techniques in this two day workshop that is designed to give leaders the ability to understand and manage integrations of advanced air? A reduction in organization noon participants are provided with multiple experiential learning opportunities to ensure they could use the information in their day to day interaction, firm or information, go to arrow hp dot com.  That is e r o hp dot com and click on the link that says Open enrollment way are back on the J. Allen Show on safety. And yeah, well, this this company's pretty smart. You know, One of the things that they did is I think they're they were anticipating that, you know, they weren't gonna be renting videos, you know, DVDs out forever. Um, and so what? They they bought all the properties for each store, and so I think they saw themselves. Maura's a property management company. Because inevitably, you know, once everybody got to streaming now, they could just rent out all their property, so almost, um but, yeah, I think they're still renting videos.  I have to go check out back for a couple years. The McDonald's approach, almost to some extent, then by the Elena as well. Okay, So you so you end up doing that. So you move forward the next thing that I confined, and I don't know how specific you want me to get into some of these things. You go work for the U S D A. Yeah, How is that? And how does how does this thing come into you into your life? Yes. So to get my bachelor's degree, I had to have an internship in safety.  And Ah, and you know that old saying It's not what you know what to, you know, write that. It was kind of one of those situations because, um, everybody in the program in the safety program at Iowa State University needed to go get an internship. And there's a lot of industry in the in Ames, Iowa, where where we were, you know, Barilla and 3 a.m. And there's a lot of big names there. Well, the USDA has their national animal disease center there, and the university had been trying to work out some kind of program with the USDA, but had gotten nowhere.  And lots of students had tried to get in there, but had gotten nowhere. And and I I was, um see Okay, I was working at university community childcare. Um, I did that for several years as well, working with kids and one of the parents of some of Brazilian twins these. Ah, and their older brother. I used to baby sit for They asked me to baby sit for them, and so they were working out of the U S D. A. And I just asked him for a favor.  I said, Hey, would you mind? Uh, here's my resume. I really need to get an internship. I'd liketo get an internship with USDA, and they said sure will pass it on. So they passed on to their supervisor and they passed it on to someone in some, somehow, some way. It ended up in the deputy director's hands, and she recognized my last name because my grandfather used to work there. And I think my grandfather is who hired her originally. Wow. And and I didn't even know this. I don't know how I didn't know this.  My grandfather's a veteran and he was in the Air Force, and before that, he was a Navy Korman, and that's what I had always envisioned. My grandfather is doing primarily, and then I did know he worked at the National Animal Disease Center for a long time, but But he's a microbiologist, so I didn't think he was in safety, but When I got there, I found out that he was actually the head of safety for several years, which was kind of Ah, kind of blew my mind. I had no idea.  But the deputy director said call called me and said, Hair, you don Bradman's grandson? I said, Yeah, she was when you come in for an interview, so you probably turn around and go. How do you know my grandfather would probably been one of the first questions I would imagine you're asking, right? Yeah, Exactly. Exactly. Well, it was It was cool to going to the USDA because they just went through this, um, they tore down. They're tearing down all the old facilities. But for about a month, I gotta work in the same lab that my grandfather worked in, um, like, way back in the in the fifties.  And I found old picture of him standing at a at a fume hood, a chemical fume hood when he was younger. It was just It was It was a good kind of neat experience for me. Oh, I mean, I don't That's so odd to hear about in regards of something like that happening. I mean, I think the only other story I've ever heard similar was ah, mother and daughter combo. But it was almost done intentionally in this. The way that it worked out for you, that was pretty amazing.  So once you actually leave the USDA, you decided to become a co founder. And I'm not sure what the what the company is about. And I don't know if you still own the right to the to the website. Um, So what was it or do you now, where'd you rather just jump into some of the other stuff that you were doing? Not a mind active stats? No, I actually had found one for, like, what was trading in? Oh, yeah, trading in. Yes. Uh, that was such a cool idea.  Just in a nutshell. Basically what it was is you know, people, people basically get taken advantage of when you trade in a vehicle at a dealership. And so there was a group of people that I was the university. Um uh, trying to start this business where when you trade in a vehicle, you demand basically that as part of the deal, they list the trade in your trading at trading in dot com. And what will happen is is that the vehicle will go on the site, um, as an auction.  And the starting point is the trade in amount that the dealership gave you? No. No. And so that people can bid on that vehicle. And then whatever profit is made a split between the dealer and the person who traded the vehicle. Very interesting concept. Yeah. Yeah. And the way I got into that was I had a class with Ah, um, with this professor and I have given him some feedback and he basically appreciated, you know, my feedback you got I was actually being very critical of something he was doing in his class.  I was being very nice, but I was. You laughed at that. I'm not sure if I'm gonna buy that for a moment. I would be very nice. Uh, I was being, you know, I mean, I was being very direct. Okay, Um and he brought me He wanted to have a meeting with me, and I'm like, Okay, here, Rio, you know, and usually professors don't appreciate when you criticize anything about their class. And so I wasn't sure what to expect, but I went in and he said, I really appreciate your feedback.  It's very valuable to me in this kind of thing. And we got to talking and and he recruited me into trading it. Nobody knows. Very nice. Yeah, that worked out extremely well. So I'm gonna jump the next little venture that you went through. But then I want to jump into something that you still have, Which is is it recordable dot com? So what? How did you come up with the idea? How did you say this is something that you think that there's a need out there and you go, I'm going to solve this problem for is a recordable. Yes.  Yeah, well, so in my position, my full time job I work is a corporate safety manager over in a very large company and thesis obsidian ery businesses. But there's a lot of diversity amongst these different businesses that I gotta work with. One of them is a real state company, very large in all 50 states. And they have They don't have any sort of designated safety expert or professional. And so what ends up happening is, as you can imagine, they get, they get a lot of injuries and their HR team will call me.  Started calling me saying, Hey, this happened. Is it recordable? And I got all kinds of crazy scenarios out of that. You're just asking me questions. Is it? Recordable is a recordable. And so I started doing all this investigation, reading the letters of interpretation, um, studying the regulations and, you know, been doing that for about eight years. So, uh, I've become quite good at it. It's It's very confusing regulation. I think it's probably one of the most misunderstood, um, probably one of the areas of greatest weakness for most safety professionals, even the best safety professionals.  Most of them have a soft spot when it comes to recordkeeping. I just It's just not understood well, and so I thought it would be great. It's just to start a website where people can submit questions and then I can answer him well, Then, also about that time we had one scenario where there's an employee who, on his way from one work site to the next work site, had stopped at a at a gas station to get coffee, and he was in the middle of the workday.  So, you know, normal part of the work day and out of control vehicle driven by an on elderly guy. Ah, he, I guess, confused the break in the gas and drove through the wall like the Kool Aid guy and went through every ill. It just held the gas down the entire way and ended up running over the employees while he was trying to wait in line to pay for his coffee. And he had several bones broke enemies just really bad. The guy was lucky to be alive.  Um, and the operational vice president said, Well, that's not work related. He was getting coffee. What? Yes, like Well, uh, hold on a second. Back to Charlie up a second here. And so I laid it out. I explained, you know, he was on a reasonably direct route of travel from one work site to another. It's getting coffee is part of the normal workday. He wouldn't have been there getting coffee if it wasn't for the fact that he was working. And the operational V piece just did not want to have anything to do with calling it work related.  So, um my boss, who's the vice president of safety at the time. Ah hired an expert lawyer, and the law firm charged us something like $900 just for one answer for this ocean recordkeeping. Um, question. And I thought, You know what I'll do? I could do that, Matt, for 1/10 of the price. And and so that's That's kind of where I set my prices when I first started. Is it recordable? It was 90 bucks for a single question, and then it was, I think I had it at some discount for for a package of two or three or something.  And then I had the unlimited plan, which was like 200 bucks a month, and I have since gone away from all that. It's now 100% free. People consume it questions, and I'll answer, I'm and I'm usually pretty quick about answered questions. So these J. Allen show loot and I'm Brennan. We are fighters. When we first got married, we dreamed of owning land and building self sufficient lifestyle. But we see saw that buying land was almost out of beach land, was expensive and hard to finance, but we couldn't just give up on our dream of being landowners.  To be honest, it was a pretty discouraging problem, but we're determined to find a solution. So he started a company called the Farm Finders to find properties that anyone could afford. That was a few years back, and today, we're proud to say, helped hundreds of people make their land of dreams and reality. There's something inside each of us that once piece of land collar and your farm finders, we can make that happen. If you're like us, dream of owning land and check out our website at the farm finders dot com.  Decline that perfect property. Take advantage of our no credit check. Zero interest in under financing with payments is lost $50 a month. With their secure online check out, it's easy to make any property yours with just a few players who don't just dream. Do something. Visit the farm finders dot com today, but the more we get into your head Safety FM way are back on the J. Allen show on safety and, well, let me kind of backtrack a little bit. So once the the the attorney decides to go ahead and answer the question for the $900 they essentially give the you give them the seeming introduction had already given him.  It was identical. Yeah, uh, got a little right not to love it. So right now, let me just ask about is a recordable, because I find it. It's such an interesting, um, content that's actually there. Do you have that currently set up just as the website? Or do you also do that as an R s s feed where people can just automatically get that as, ah, feed that comes to them like some of the news stories that you get RCs feed wise? Is that set up like that currently or not at all?  No. No. It's just a static web site for now. Okay, Very cool. So I know right now you were referencing that you do work for a pretty large company, which I will not name. How in the hell do you end up there? How does that work? I mean, it's it's a pretty well known company. I'm not going to joke, but I was So how does this thing work out for you? Please don't tell me it's a grandfather story, too, because they have all kinds of questions. No, no, no.  Actually, you know that that's something I'm kind of proud about was that I had zero connection to this company. Um Ah, let's see. So after? Well, when I was approaching graduation with my master's degree, um, there were several places I applied. And, like a lot of like, there's an insurance company, I was thinking I was gonna go into insurance and they had offered me a job like for start starting pay was like $74,000 or something. And so, as a college student, you know, it's pretty excited about that.  And they had all basically had offered me the job and I was about to accept. And then suddenly that insurance company decided to do a hiring freeze, and then they basically yanked the offer. And so then I sort of, um, scrambled and started applying other places. And when I apply for this position, I didn't feel that I was qualified for it because it was asking for so many years of experience. And, you know, I had some experience with my internship at least, but and they weren't asking for a master's degree.  So maybe I was thinking on maybe, you know, that would convert to some experience for them. Um, but I ended up getting an interview and, um, you know, in the interview, I thought, Well, I really have to I can imagine there's probably a lot of people applying for this position. I really need to hit it out of the ballpark. And I think what really did it was and I didn't know this at the time. But apparently in these when you when you get close to the top in some sort of organization that says, Biggest this when you're in this corporate world, there are There's this kind of crazy demand for perfection and expediency.  It's like every request. It's like we need this yesterday and there better not be any mistakes in it. And so attention to detail is everything. Well, one of the things that I pointed out in the interview I was trying to emphasize that I had attention to detail and and I noticed that my well, my future bosses glasses had had been shoot on the little plastic pieces on the end of the glass of his glasses had little bite marks on it. And so I asked him if he had dogs and we started talking about it.  I said, Yeah, I noticed that you had bite marks on your glasses and I said, I have a pretty high attention to detail and I think that was enough Thio to kind of push me ahead of the I guess the rest of the crowd who are applying for the job. And then he the person turned around and looked at you and go, Wow, what else were you looking at that you have not mentioned? Exactly. So I would imagine that at this particular place, your stock options must be quite fantastic.  I'm just gonna make an assumption they're not going too far. Well, you know, you might be surprised. Really. It's You might be surprised. Yeah, it's It's some There, there, there. There's goods and bads. I can't get into it so much. Like I understand. Believe you not as glamorous as you might think. Interesting. I I would have thought otherwise, but let's just leave it at that. Okay? So let me ask, How does this whole thing then start where you say Okay, I'm gonna start posting some things online already.  Know that you're doing. It's recordable dot com, but that's not kind of the driving force on what you start posting. So how does this decision G o off? Hey, I'm gonna start posting some things online. Putting inside of the safety space in all seven starts caring and a lot of attention. Yeah, well, they isn't recordable is what got me on LinkedIn. What got me active on Lincoln I had been on linked in for probably since cash. I don't know, many years, but I've never been active. I was kind of one of those of the silent majority, if you will, That never proposed anything.  They're just kind of once in a while I get on there. I was using it for, you know, to see what kind of jobs were out there once in a while. But that's about it. Well, when is it Recordable came. I was trying to think, you know, how do I get this out there? Because, you know, I don't really have you know, the funding to do some sort of massive blitz for media or marketing or anything like that. And so I'm like, Well, maybe I can start working through Lincoln.  So all I did was I started with a simple set of challenge questions. Just wrote a scenario and ask people to give feedback on whether or not they thought it was a recordable. And then and then kind of duke it out and, like, kind of try to educate people say, Well, it is recordable because of this, or it isn't because of that or or whatever. And so ended up posting on there, and and ah, had some people reach out to me and ended up talking to Jamie Young and and, uh, I had been posting in his group without even knowing really whose group it was.  But they said, Hey, we really appreciate the content you've been posting in the group. Have you ever thought about doing video? And I thought, No, no, no, that's not me. You know, like I don't want to see myself. I don't think anyone else wants to see me either. You know, I just didn't really I just kind of like pooh poohed the idea at the moment at the time. But But I have this philosophy. I also wrote a Children's book in 2018. That imbizo embodies this philosophy, which is You really should be facing your fears, you know.  And if you have something you're afraid of doing, that's a good compass to that. You should do it. And if it scares you, that's a good sign, because it means it's probably worth doing. You know, um, there's a story that King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table they're searching for the Holy Grail and the Holy Grail. It could mean anything to anybody. It's different to everybody. You know, Whatever your Holy Grail is is gonna be unique to you. But you know, the symbolism of the Holy Grail it is.  It's really it's really nice and clean for that for that purpose. Well, so the Knights decided that in order to find the Holy Grail that each one of them should split up and go into the forest at the place that looks darkest to them. And I remember hearing this story and thinking, you know, what is the point of that? Like what? Like I didn't really understand how profound that was, But the reason is because that treasure that Holy Grail is gonna be found in the place that you regularly avoid looking.  And so when somebody mentioned to me Hey, have you ever thought about doing videos? And that was something that I was kind of avoiding, that it didn't really think I Oh, no, that's not me. Then I realized, like, Okay, that means I have to do it. So I just dove in and I just did it. And ah, then I was trying to figure out marketing. And I was reading a book called uh um I think What was it called? The long beard? I mean, how does the trade Mart How does the trade work come about?  Yeah, well, this book is is it was ah, invisible influence. Bye, Jonah Berger. And in that they talk about these studies, Um, where they had a group of females, Um, in the A had them rated at their level of attractiveness from like, 1 to 10 and out of the group of these girls that all were all rated about a seven. They took them in for the study in a single class and throughout the year had them go into the class, walked to the front of the room and sit down.  Some of them will only went in like one time. Some of them went in once a week, and then some of them went in every single day. And at the end of the class they had that class, um, rate the the level of attraction for those for those state females and the ones that had been into the class, more times were rated higher, and it was a large class. So even if people didn't necessarily see them consciously, they may have seen them subconsciously and and and and what?  What the result was. The conclusion of that study was, and some other studies were that what you see most, like what you're more familiar with, is what you're most attracted to. And so that's a marketing thing that really comes back to marketing. I mean, look at Coca Cola. You know, they it's all about just impressions. They just get their name everywhere, and then people are more attracted to it. Well, then, also, Coco Cola likes to associate themselves with, like Santa Claus or polar bears. They give a nice visual because most people are very visual in that kind of sticks and so I thought OK, so I just need to be frequent, and I need to have a nice visual.  So I thought, Well, what What work is a visual on the red beard thing was just came to mind, so I thought OK, Red beard. It is so red Beard it is. So you always sudden you see, Do you already know at this point that you have the ability to grow this monstrosity? No, not really. Okay. I mean, I come from a hairy family, so I thought, you know, I have pretty good odds that I should be able to grow a beard. So you're able to grow this thing out.  Let's go and just be realistic. It's your trademark. I mean I mean, this is what you refer to yourself as. A lot of people know you by that, Of course. You know now what doing with some of the stuff with a safety Justice league. This is some people refer to it as your superpower. Absolutely. So you will see you before you go into that As you look at this, do you go That this is what kind of started to set to a port not that the knowledge base wasn't there, because by no means are we saying that.  But do you feel that that's what sets you apart inside of the inside of the industry right now in regards. This is how people know you are, and we'll same or attracted to you because of it? Absolutely, absolutely. It's just it's pure marketing. Um, when people see something that I mean okay, think about like Nate Bremen. It's just that's just another name. And if I had a picture of just, you know, the one I used to have on Lincoln was just a picture of me with, you know, I had a very short beard, just smiling with the tie, you know, just a standard kind of corporate picture, you know, um, there's a there's what?  How many millions of those out there and so having a beard and you'll notice in my picture, I use an app that I take all the color out. You every other part. You do the saturation portion, you actually saturate the beard, and you actually take the contrast out of everything else. Yeah, I'm very familiar with what you're doing. You know how it works. Yeah, And so but But the thing is, is that it's recognizable. So it stands out. It's like, Oh, there's that bright red beard again so that that actually gives it a little bit more power.  So, you know, if you if you get out there in your frequent, you're posting every day and, you know, hopefully providing quality content to cause that matters. Obviously, that's really the most important thing. But, um, But if you're out there every day and people are seeing you, they will eventually start recognizing you, even with the old boring corporate look, even without the moniker Red Beard. But I think my theory is that if you have a strong visual like that, it takes fewer impressions to remember you. So I just I just kind of supercharged the marketing side of the of the whole thing J. Allen show.  So you're bored with what you're listening to you and you think you need a little more, because if you need a little more, I think I can help e everybody. Todd conquered re accident investigation, and along with my buddy Jay Allen of Safety FM, we've done the unthinkable, and that is we put some of my books up on audible. So if you gather information by listening to books on audio, you're in luck because three books are available right now. And if you're interested, you can pick him up.  No problem at all. Workplace fatalities, the new Five Principles of Human Performance and my very first book called Simple Revolutionary Acts are all available for you to enjoy and ponder and argue and chew on and their work They're yours and they're on Audible Try mouth Way are back on the J. Allen show on Safety And I think I think you're spot on with what you're saying there. And I think that sometimes people lose that in translation where they dio Oh, I need to have my pro pick dine where I am doing my traditional head shot and this is going to kind of put me ahead of the curve.  Now, I'll tell you right now, if you go to my LinkedIn page, I will be a terrible example of that because I have the corporate headshot picture because that's what I was told to do at the time. Um, but the way that you're doing it, I think it's it's genius. Now I have to tell you I seek some mixed reviews online with some of your stuff, and let me explain what I'm talking about with If it's a recordable stuff, I like that you you put your information and then people will say, you know, agree, disagree whatsoever.  And I love it that you kind of go back and forth. It's not in a derogatory way, but where I see a lot of complaints on some of the stuff that you posted. This is just a stalking, of course, is some of the stuff with your videos. And I'm talking about the videos that you posted. Let's say, for instance, an incident or an accident that occurs on a work site. Oh, sure. Do you feel that you get a lot of pushback or more negatives and positives off of that?  Mmm, not really. I mean, what I don't like to see is the toxicity. If there's some people that just they don't respect boundaries, you know, and or they just don't have a filter and they'll say something that is maybe a little bit too harsh for my liking. For example, a couple people come to mind right away. I don't know if I should say you say them. I won't say initials like Dr Pepper or anything to that extent, but I think I know where you're going. Yeah, Yeah, Well, yeah, yeah, I You know, when people get down to the point where they just start saying things like, Well, that's natural selection and ah ah, those people are so stupid.  And and, uh, Darwin Awards and that kind of thing. The reason I don't like that is because and they're typically safety people. Not always. But if you're in safety, what like if you drill down to the hearth the core of why somebody would want to be in safety? It's got to be from a place of compassion, because it's all about at the end of the day, it's all about trying to keep people safe, trying to prevent people from getting hurt. And you can't simultaneously love people and try to protect them.  But then also talk about how oh, this is just Darwin awards and be flippant about people's lives. Like even stupid people deserve to be safe. And hopefully you know, we wouldn't I wouldn't wish something you know, like an injury to happen, even to my worst enemies. I just think it's it's poor taste, you know, so that that's the most negative stuff I've seen. And, you know, in some of my philosophy, when I talk about, you know, trying to hold management accountable for building a system or to have a better system.  You know, I think people don't like that because it's easier to just blame somebody for being stupid and then washing your hands of it, you know? So what are you saying? That's not the case. People are just not stupid. Come on. No, I mean, I think. I think sometimes that's the really stupid right. I think that's the easier route, though, where it just goes well, it was their fault. We get rid of them that fixes the problem. Let's go to the next person. But I think that they like the project you're taking is good, but I just think it's interesting on how people will kind of go back and forth with you.  I think I'm not sure I want to say it was one of your post that somebody was like, How did you acquire this video? because it was closed. CAPTION TV bah bah bah bah blah How do you end up getting some of the stuff that you find? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, um, I get that question a lot. Where you finding this video? Or could you send me the source of this video? And and I have so many different places. I look for videos. Um, one of my favorite places to look is, um, picked a file.  It's an app. There's another one. It's really good called M imgur imager. I'm not sure how to pronounce it, but you could download the zaps for free, and it just has tons of Mihm's and viral videos and all kinds of stuff like that. The off anybody's looking to find sometimes videos. That's a good place to look. Do you ever feel that people get offended by some of the stuff that you post when it comes to that? And I'm talking, I'm talking. I'm talking about content, not really what you're putting with it just kind of work what it is.  Well, there are other people who do similar things. Um, you know, you know, and they have run into problems, you know, I think. What? It's walking that fine line where you don't want to put anything out there. That's maybe a little bit too graphic for you. Don't you put a video. Somebody getting too complicated or something? Yeah, people have done that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes, I know. Yeah. And you know, like liveleak dot com. Okay, that's a source for extreme videos that are, like, you know, blacklisted.  Um, maybe don't go there to get your fish guts. Yeah. You know, if you're looking for a snuff video, please don't go there, That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And there's one video where there's, you know, somebody walking around on the outside of who knows what. It was obviously a very dangerous piece of equipment, and there was a blast door that was open and the thing discharged a ton of like flames and the guy just it was gone. And then there's just pieces falling from the sky. You know that that's that's a little extreme to put on a linked in posts because that guy just lost his life and that's not something.  And I'm pretty sure you could get booted off of linked in for doing that Yeah. I mean, did you imagine you're scrolling down drinking your coffee first thing in the morning? Bah, blah, blah, blah, blah all of a sudden. There you go. Not bad. How you want to start it off? Yeah, so? So I do try to be a little bit careful with what I post. Um, you know, I don't want to do anything that's disrespectful to you. Somebody lost their life or their families or anything like that.  So, um, I am mindful of what I post for Sure. Well, let me ask a couple of strange questions. Of course, we know that. You know, the right now, everything's kind of tied into safety. Justice League. Definitely want to talk about the podcast a little bit. But did you ever think that your stuff would translate to an audio forum the way that it has? I mean, it seems like you're really getting out there. I see you on tons of podcast. Besides the one that you are part of the one of the host.  But did you ever think that that would translate over so well for you? No, no, It's been a wild ride. Well, in, you know, in. The funny part about it, though, is I'm not saying you know, the church. That's the sole portion of the comedy of when it comes to the Safety Justice League. But me and you bring some funny stuff to the table. Yeah, well, and that's one of the things that we've talked about with, you know, with other members of the S jail. It's it's ah, we want to be able to make it entertaining, kind of have more of a fusion of humor and, you know, quality information and relevant stuff that we talked about.  And so I do make a I make an effort to try to try to stay lighthearted and try to bring a little bit of whimsy into it, you know, just to have fun. And we do have a lot of fun. We have a lot of good laughs. No, because I mean the way that I look at it, though, and the only thing that I can compare it to is like morning radio, where I call it like the mornings. You and I don't mean that in a bad way.  But they're you. The four of you take such a different approach than the common will say quote unquote safety show. So the common safety show is I'm going to sit here. I'm gonna tell you what's going on. We're gonna complain together. I'm gonna tell you what I like. What? I don't like it. Then we're gonna move forward. And that's kind of what it boils down to. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the first trailers that you guys did together with about the stuff that you put into your beard help it grow.  And I was like, What the hell is this? I mean, he just thinking as a listener, starting off going. But hold on. How is this anything related to safety, But I sure as hell was interested. I mean, I had multiple interested Don't get me wrong, but it made me interested on what are they going to talk about? If this is what they're talking about, Starting off. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Well, I mean, look, you know, Jason Lucas has ah, hilarious some tic tac feed River followed his tic tac account.  He does all kinds of dad jokes and just goofy stuff. Abby. She has all kinds of great tic tac videos and then Jason. He has a great sense of humor. He makes me laugh probably more than anybody. So when we get together, you know, we all have a kind of Ah, nice. I don't know. We all have a sense of humor and, you know, it flows pretty well. And it's kind of funny because some of those things like the beard rubbing the beef jerky on the beard, stuff like that.  You know, some of those things happen prior to our official podcast, and so then we and then Jason doesn't really get Jason Maldonado does a great job, But snipping those things out and using them is, you know, kind of like the little promo sneak peeks stuff like that. So let me ask a question. Because I know that before the titling of the safety justice league came about, the group was a little bit different. Had some more people to it. A little bit different dynamic. Why the change before everything was launched?  If you can talk about it, of course. Oh, yeah. Um, well, actually, yeah, well, we had Joe Pina was the other person is just I'm just going to jump right into it. And I was I was trying to be nice and not go need specific, but you went there. Hey, but I'm comfortable with you doing it. I don't want Joe to come after me. No, I I appreciate that. I appreciate that. No, Joe Joe is great because we know we we we left on each other on on good terms, you know, the safety Justice league, And Joe, uh, she was just in a different place, and she didn't feel like it was gonna work out for her at the time.  And so she respectfully bowed out and we bid her farewell, and that's all there is to it. And so we became We went from five original to four, and that was really at the very initial, you know, before we had been formalised into even like, an LLC like before. We even really went forward and started producing. So that was very early on. I mean, basically, Joe had been in, I think one or two of our ask of safety pro videos and that was it. And then was kind of went our separate ways.  So, you know, we think the world of Joe, and I wish the best for her. And I don't want I don't want it to sound like a Backstreet. Boys are in sync or anything like that. Break up. That's not what I'm trying to say here. Anything. They're sure like pre destiny. Child Destiny's Child First album came out. Then things changed. I was just kind of curious. So was there ever thought of actually bringing in someone else? Let's say, for instance, another female to the group. Just kind of to change the dynamics or what has been the thought process behind that?  Or is that just something you don't care to talk about at the time? Okay. Yeah, we talked about it. Um, I suggested a couple people. Abby has had some people in mind, and at the end of the day, we just decided, You know, we think four is a good number. Um, and, you know, it gets a little bit tough when you have four people in a group. You know, we're getting better at it, but when you have four people in a room virtual room You guys have never been in a room.  I've never met any of them in person. Oh, wow. Yeah, only virtually. Um, you have talked him on the phone and threw these through our little podcasting and things. But, um, you know, when you get four people, it becomes it becomes busy. Sometimes, you know, everyone has something they want to say. But as we're getting used to kind of the flow, the ebb and flow of how we each talk, it's becoming a little bit more smooth. And the nice thing is on Zen caster, which is you know what we're using. Hello.  Plug now. Joking. Yeah. Ah, you can. You can use the mute button and you can see when people have muted themselves. And so what we typically have found works really well for us is that we'll stay muted when someone else is talking. And then if somebody wants to jump in next, they will mute. And then I can see Okay, Jason Lucas, un muted. He's he's gonna jump in next. So it's kind of a nice way to kind of make sure we're not talking over each other and adding another person.  Five people. That's a lot of people. It's just one more voice. You have to do that with and it just becomes that much harder toe kind of, you know, keep it smooth. So believe me, I know, I know, the more the merrier. It becomes a little bit more difficult special when you're controlling everything, especially trying to run it. Now what do you see going on next with the Safety Justice League? And I know that on our episode that we're doing right now, I have not covered the events that are going on in the world.  And I think we need to take a break from time to time. And I know that it might be difficult to be able to answer this question based on what's going on in the world and what you guys see going on next. So what our next steps? Would he? What do you guys have planned? Well, we have a big where, you know, we've talked about this obviously, and one of the things that I kind of wanted to emphasize with our team was, let's think big like, let's really think what could we in the ideal world, what could we really do with this?  And so we've been able to boil it like, Well, what's our mission statement, so we've been able to boil it down to that. We want Thio become a platform for safety champions, and we also want Thio. Make some people. There's a lot of lone safety people out there that you know they don't. There's there is just them. They feel very alone. And so we also wanted to provide good information in a place that where they could reach out and ask us questions like if you go to safety.  Justice league dot com We have our ask a safety pro submission form. We get all kinds of questions from people. Hey, do you guys know good source for this kind of information? And we're that kind of information and where we love helping people out like that. So, you know, we really wanted grow. This is Bigas. We can and eventually start converting into a platform to give safety champions of voice, so I'm not exactly sure what form that's going to take, but that's the general direction that we're trying to go.  So when you say that, do you see that platform becoming Maur? If things were to normalize in the world that we're living in right now where you guys might show up to a place as a group and do like events. Porch safety champions where, Let's say, for instance, hypothetically companies can send these quote unquote safety champions and there's like an event that's put on. Is that what you're looking at or yeah, yeah, absolutely. We've talked about doing that, and we've also talked about well, don't give away all your trade secrets.  Well, we could go very generic. If you want to leave it at that, it's OK because here's the problem, too. Let's be realistic. And this is where I get in a lot of trouble. Speaking with people is that people are like, Ah, this is not competitive. And I will tell you, if we were on the radar safety, shall we tell you that it's B s, but just really tell you what I think. But it is competitive, and people are sitting out there taking a list and trying to pay attention.  The groups are doing and then they're gonna move forward and try to do the exact same thing. And it's good. It's good that people want to do that. But what I hate is when somebody contact you and go. Well, we're not competitive, but they're trying to write down every single thing that you just tell them that you're about to start doing. And then all of a sudden, right? Wow. I just told you this and he already doing the exact same thing that I just I told you I was gonna start here.  Yeah, Yeah. Here. Yeah, I've been to interviews like that where it's like they asked me all these questions and then and then they don't hire anybody for the position. And I'm like, Okay, they're just trying to get some free safety advice. Apparently one I remember you and I had a conversation where we're doing our group interview, and you said, Oh, it's not competitive. And I was like, I think you're gonna be in for a surprise a little bit with the further down the road, you go with this.  Well, I met within the four of us. Okay, Well, because I'm gonna say it's competitive the moment that you put your first post where you're being under God, redder on the picture. It was competitive. The moment that you turned on the first microphone and you were on your first podcast that was competitive round. Even talk about your own podcast. I'm talking about first podcast. That's just the way that it works. And unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you want to look at it is that people do that and it is competitive.  And I want to be known as the best prints from the best safety speaker when I walk into the room or the best podcaster, and that's just what happens. And that's how people are. And I always think it's funny, the ones that always that I sit with Could I talk to a lot of people So you could imagine They tell me, Oh, it's not competitive. Those are the ones that I get scared of The most I go, that's a that's a competitive That's the competition right there. Exactly.  Yeah, these are my thoughts on that. If you're starting with the outcomes and you're saying, Oh, my goal, you're setting your goal on an outcome. This is a classic mistake. The outcomes will take care of themselves. If you're focused on the right inputs, right and this comes back to the safety world, I mean, it applies to many things. It's a good thing to understand in general is that I like to think of it like a river where I don't know, let's see your measuring the amount of pollution in a river or something like that.  Well, you can go downstream and you can say, You know, there's this many parts per 1,000,000 of pollution And then if you stay down stream and say I want it Oh, I want to change that. It's impossible. You have to go upstream to the inputs. Well, where where's the pollution coming from? You know, like in safety, we do this. I see this all the time where it's just like setting a goal on the incident rate. You can't change the incident rate not directly. You have to go upstream and look at your inputs.  You have to go in and say, OK, what are the things that employers are doing or not doing that are ending up in this result? It's all these people saying, you know, like I want to be the best of this or whatever. You don't get there by focusing on that as a goal, because you can't just flip a switch and be be the bastard. Whatever it is, you're goaless. You have to go upstream. Look at your inputs. And so for me, I take on the mantra of the honey badger like, I just don't really care.  Like if somebody wants to be competing with me, My 100% of my energy is focused on how can I add the most value? And then if I and I think that if I do that and I have my ducks in a row upstream, that the downstream stuff will take care of itself, I don't even have to worry about it. And so I don't really even worry about whether people are doing. I just make sure that I'm putting out consistent, good quality information to the best of my ability.  And I think that's the only thing you can d'oh. Because that's that's the interesting part about it is that sometimes people want to look to the left to the right and go. Okay, this is what this other person's doing. Let's kind of do something similar, and maybe that's not the correct approach on how to do it. What I always what I have done from the beginning, which was a terrible portion on My part is I tried not to read the comments, especially on anything that the audio I don't read.  Um, because I I'll put stuff on like LinkedIn, Facebook and things to that extent that I'll read but stuff that I put on, like pod like full blown podcasts where people do reviews, I just don't read it right? Just go. If I was just gonna drive me crazy Oh, because of the negative reviews, Well, yeah, because I take the negative and the positive. I mean, if you tell me that it's good, you know, back then I was reading it. If you tell me it was bad, I would read it in the Global Boys the bed, and it would drive me crazy thing.  I just got to the point that I was like, If I just don't read it and just do what I'm doing, because I can tell based on how many Listeners II, It's not that it's only about the listeners, but I look at it to kind of similar to some of the warning that you used where there are the single safety person out there and they're alone And I'll tell you, when I first started some of these shows here, they were more driven off. Let's talk to the day in, day out safety person.  And what I have done, as of late is that I have noticed these different people that are in the safety world that people are interested in, and this is more what the show has become. Plus, I want to bring other things in because I noticed a lot of people that were interested in the show would not come on if I said that was called safety of him. And that was one of the first things that I realized that there was some pretty well known people that I wanted to come on, that they initially agreed until I gave them or information really Well, I'm not in the safety space.  So then I kind of change that a little bit. Oh, interesting. I don't want to say that it put a limit on me, but it kind of put a limit on me at the same time. Yeah, yeah, people are funny. Just don't just don't change what you own to Justice League. That might get you into trouble. sure? Yeah, understood. Well, mate, I got a question for you. If people want more awesome or information about you and what the safety Justice League is doing work and they find out that information, Well, the best way would be to subscribe it.  Safety justice league dot com Type in your email, and then we will occasionally pump out, you know, just a just a mass email to let people know what's going on. Um, we have some big things in the works in the background. Uh, you know, we're very where we want to think big were very ambitious. You know, one of the things that drives me nuts is how safety has stagnated over time. And, you know, we get a lot of these crystallized credential factories in the safety space, and that's something that we're looking at trying to fix, right, trying to improve on.  And so we have big things in the works coming down the pipes. Um, I don't know what the time line's gonna be on some of this stuff, especially given the, you know, hold this crazy stuff going on in the world right now. But, um, you know, go to safety justice like dot com and type in your type in your email so that once we're ready to make these big announcements that you'll be the first to know. Okay, we'll need I really do appreciate you or let me rephrase that red beard.  I appreciate you actually coming going today. It actually having the conversation with us. Absolutely, J. And And it's an honor to be here. And I appreciate all your support, and I love what you do as well. And before we go, uh, there's I need to come clean on something with you. J Meteo Macon admission. And I thought, this is the time to do it. Oh, God. So So yesterday, all night yesterday, Friday we did the town hall and to those who were not listening, go back and listen to, uh, safety Justice league.  At least the safety justice leaks section of it listen to the whole thing was a lot of good information, but, um, you know, at around the 40 minutes, 41 minute mark is where we were. So I talked about an acronym and acronym had five letters in it, and it's spelled out lig MMA, right? You remember that? Yes, of course, of course. Yeah, And so the l was for Listen to experts, you know, the I was for imagine. Everyone is infected, and so it's all heartfelt, good quality information. It's It's not.  It's not, You know, there's nothing wrong with with that information, But I have to say that I did mean leg MMA as sort of a shot across the bow because I I'm I'm frustrated. It's seeing a lot of stuff in the news that's going on with Thea Covert 19. There's a lot of businesses who are putting their employees at risk unnecessarily by forcing them to come into the office when they could be working from home. There's been a lot of people that have reached out to me saying that, you know, I have a laptop, I have a cell phone.  I could be working from home. But, you know, the executives were choosing to make us still come in. And all the experts are saying the best thing you can do is social distancing, and so I would encourage people to go back and listen to that section and and then maybe look up what Lyga really means and Ah, you know, maybe on the urban dictionary. And then in my closing statement, I emphasized to different words that kind of go along with that so that I'm gonna leave it at that, encourage people to go back and listen to that one.  Oh, God. Now, this is gonna definitely of interest in there for sure on that section. So So you decided to come clean with you. Came clean at the end of the town hall, then. Oh, you know what? I was thinking about it. I wasn't sure how it's gonna play out, and they're an opportunity. Didn't really didn't really present itself. And I thought, you know, maybe I'll just do when I talked to you on this thing, Okay? Uh huh. Okay. Yeah, I got it. Now I've just pulled it up.  You got it? Okay. What? Google's LACMA. Probably. Well, I went to the urban dictionary and put it up to So I got you. I got you. Well, now, keep in mind that that's my message for for ah, the older executives. So I was very clear. I was trying to be as clear as I could. If you go back and re listen to it. I was sending a message to those people in particular. Well, I kind of think that it's funny that you are pointing out older executives, and we briefly spoke about this yesterday.  I had a few people reach out to me about that, and I don't think they even knew what you meant by this. And I think it's been fun here now that I'm seeing it on the screen anyway. So you do get a chance. I would definitely say Go to urban dictionary dot com and type in Ligue MMA L I g M A Boys. It's just Maybe we should do a rated R safety show. This might be a little bit more appropriate there anyway, if you want. If you want to get Red Beard, then we should do it.  Rated R safety show Because then I'll tell you what I really think. Okay, way should talk about doing that here in the very near future. Well, Red Beard, I appreciate you actually coming on and appreciate what you and the Safety Justice League are doing out there to support the safety world and the feeling's mutual. Jay, Thank you so much. Well, This brings another episode of the jail in show to an end. If you do get the chance, go to safety FM dot com. Click on the link that says Shirts and pick up the shirt all about You know it, the Red Beard and the Safety Justice League right there at safety FM dot com.  And there's a special T shirt just for the Red Beard himself. And it was, I appreciate Nathan Bremen taking the time to come by the show today, and I appreciate you being the best part of safety FM, and that's the listener right now. I know we're going through some difficult times together with everything that's going on in the world. If there's anything that we can do here at Safety FM, please don't hesitate to contact us. Can always come to safety FM dot com. Ask any questions that you have put it right there into the butt and we'll respond to you as soon as possible.  Make sure that you do take care of yourself during these interesting times thing. This brings another episode of the J. Ellen Show to an end, but we'll be back right before you know it the safety FM studio in Orlando, Florida Goodbye for now, wondering how you can show your love of announcing Facebook, the views and opinions expressed on this podcast or those of the host and its guest, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or physician of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within with podcasts are only examples.  It's not be utilized in the real world that the only solution available as they're based only on very limited in dated open source information assumptions made within this analysis or not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, electronic recording or otherwise without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast, Yeah.