Hailing from Campsie in Sydney’s southwest, Zhu has had his fair share of experiences as both a psychologist and a property investor. He shares the pivotal moments that led him to where he is today, how gaming isn’t so different from property investing, and how he uses his expertise to help others achieve their dreams.

Timestamps:
01:17 | From Psychology to Property
03:54 | CEO of Campsie
12:33 | It’s Not My Thing
16:33 | Leroyyyy Jeeeenkiiiins
18:12 | For the Horde
22:17 | Helping and Empowering
35:37 | Good Game
27:51 | Zooming to Zetland

Resources and Links:

[00:23:12] But I was investing pretty much as soon as I started working a full time job. So, yeah, so I was living this secret double life. And I was like, 'If I wasn't doing psychology, what would I be doing?' And I knew I loved property. So it had to be probably something in the real estate sort of thing.

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with Justin Zhu, the founder of GG Loans. The gaming enthusiast owned 6 properties by 35 years old, and even though life is now on ‘pay to play’ mode, he’s happily levelling up! He shares the impact he had on young minds in his previous career, and the impact a colleague had on him that ultimately changed his life.

Tyrone Shum:   

Based in Sydney but working with clients across Australia, Zhu’s learnt a lot over the past 10 years of investing. His main aim is to help first time and established investors and homeowners, which means that his days are as varied now as they were in his previous career. 

Justin Zhu:   

[00:01:17] Most days can be quite dynamic, depending on what's going on. But I think on a broad sort of point of view, I think the main thing is we help empower our clients to solve some of life's biggest problems. With the main one being figuring out a place to live and raise their kids, or their fur kids! And to grow their wealth, so that they have the time to do what makes them happy.

  

[00:01:42] Oftentimes, we look at where clients are at now, where they want to go, and then we map out the journey and the potential options that can help get them there. 

 

[00:01:54] Besides that, I love property. So [I'm] always talking to people in property, whether that's investors or other sorts of brokers and bankers and stuff like that, just to stay on top of what's going on in the industry. And to make sure that we have the best sort of things for our clients.

Tyrone Shum:   

Zhu’s wife and four year old son motivate him to do all he can both at home and at work.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:02:40] So I have one son, I have an amazing wife, she works at a big IT company, and [is] very well known and she works in... she's a lawyer, trained as a lawyer. And they are like my two sort of guiding lights, and they inspire [and] motivate me to do what I do and get up every day. It's really for them.

Tyrone Shum:   

He grew up in Campsie, in Sydney’s southwest. While he had some less-than-stellar experiences there, he can see how it helped shape him into who he is.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:03:54] When I was growing up, certainly, it definitely wasn't the highest socio economic sort of area. 

  

[00:04:00] I remember my parents coming here as migrants to Australia, [my] mum was a physics teacher, and my dad was an engineer. But they both did blue collared sort of work when they both came here. And we started out in Campsie, and in 10 years, we moved five times. And every time it was in Campsie. So you could say that I [was] the CEO of Campsie when I was growing up.

  

[00:05:10] Sometimes I still go back. Well, I go back quite regularly to see my parents. And the main thing— they're still in Campsie— the main thing is when I was growing up, it was very different. I remember we were renting, and then one of the places we were in, we got robbed twice in the same place in the same year. 

  

[00:05:30] And I remember, I was, like, five or six, and I came home one day, and I remember, like, everything was a mess. I think my mum, she walked through the door, and I was like, 'Mum, are we moving?' And she's like, 'No, what do you mean?' I'm like, 'Oh, how come all the clothes are strewn everywhere? All the furniture is upended', and stuff like that. And then she figured out that we got robbed. So, yeah, it wasn't definitely the best area. 

  

[00:06:03] But certainly I think, growing up there, I learnt so much about people and dealing with a whole wide range of people. And I think there's absolutely amazing people that I grew up with and went to school with and so on. So, I think these days, like you said, yeah, it's much better than before.

Tyrone Shum:   

He went to Campsie Public School and Canterbury Boys’ School until he finished year 10, where his mum had other plans for him.

Justin Zhu:     

[00:08:12] And then, you know, with our culture, my mum was like, 'Hey, you should go to selective school'. I was like, 'I should?' So I sat the selective High School test I think in year 10. And then went into Sydney Tech, to finish off my high school in year 11 and 12.

  

[00:08:49] Looking back, it was... I'm not sure. Maybe it was the right decision. Maybe it wasn't. Because I grew up with all my friends in year[s] seven to 10 and built a really good friendship with them. So it was a bit of a disconnect, moving to a different school. 

  

[00:09:07] Luckily, I knew a couple of people there, and started to make friends there. So, I mean, the biggest difference was [it] being a selective school, surrounded by 90% Asians, I think. It was a very competitive sort of school. And back then, the fact that we were doing quite well HSC ranking wise, we were definitely top 20, maybe top 15 or top 10 even. These days, I've had a look, we've really fallen down the ranks. I don't know what happened.

  

[00:09:41] So it was a very competitive environment at Sydney Tech, being [a] selective school. But you learn from it, you grow from it. And I can't say I've any regrets going there.

Tyrone Shum:   

Selective schools typically start at year seven, but Zhu had to wait thanks to a mistake any twelve year old could make.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:10:21] I do remember, I think, sitting the test for year seven. And then I remember I made a big mistake during the test where you're supposed to fill out the answers in the dotted whatever form, you're meant to circle them. And I bloody answered the questions on the actual question form. 

  

[00:10:42] [It was a] traumatic experience for me until one of the supervisors came over and was like, 'You know you're meant to be putting your answers in these?' I'm like, 'Oh, no'. So I think that contributed to big reason why I didn't get into selective in year seven.

Tyrone Shum:   

Despite the hiccup, he finished high school as planned.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:11:11] Straight after high school, actually, two things. I went into work, I went into working part time. And a lot of my friends were... it's very popular to go to Schoolies or go travelling and stuff like that. But growing up as I did, I wanted to get ahead as much as I [could]. So I started working at a cafe that my friend was also working at.

  

[00:11:38] It was at this cafe at the airport, and doing airport hours, I had to get up at 3 am to go open at 5 am. And I remember I was getting paid something, like, ridiculously low. But it was a really good first sort of work experience, you can say. And [it] definitely helped me kind of get my foot in the door of getting a job, because you need to get a job to get another job. 

 

[00:12:10] And then in terms of studying, I applied and got accepted into doing a Bachelor of Science majoring in psychology at Sydney University.

Tyrone Shum:   

While his parents’ first choices for him looked more like doctor or lawyer, he was determined to break the mould.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:12:33] I think when I first got into it, it was more like, you know when you finish [the] HSC, you have all these options, right? But then not really, because your parents, you know, being from an Asian background, they love to kind of prod you down the doctor, lawyer or sort of finance sort of route.

  

[00:12:56] But I think back then it just didn't... those sort[s] of fields didn't really interest me as much. I was really... I don't know, I just had this natural sort of curiosity about how minds work, how do you read someone else's mind? 'Do a psychology degree', said no one ever! 

  

[00:13:17] It was really interesting, and something different and alternate, I guess, to your sort of more mainstream sort of things. Definitely out of all my friends at that time, I was the only one that ended up doing a psychology degree.

  

[00:13:31] But I thought it was absolutely amazing. It helped set me up in terms of relating to other people, being able to understand how the brain works, how emotions work, and why we function the way we do, I guess.

   

[00:14:26] I think the basic principles are pretty straightforward. And even if you spend a couple of hours understanding yourself— because I think we're often our own worst sort of enemy. So I think understanding that in itself is a huge sort of bonus.

Tyrone Shum:   

He enjoyed his time at Sydney University, even with having to fight— with words— to defend its honour.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:14:55] It was great. It was one of those experiences that, you know, you always have this competition between Sydney Uni, UNSW, and maybe UTS. So there was all this sort of competitive camaraderie between my friends and I, some who went to New South [Wales University]. 

  

[00:15:14] But in general, the uni experience, I think I remember doing, uh, because I was doing a Bachelor [of] Science.

 

[00:15:24] Some positives [were that] I met a lot of really, really great people. And obviously, [it's a] really beautiful campus. And on the flip side, we had 8 am math[s] lectures Monday to Friday, or something like that. Looking back I'm like, 'Who on earth devised that timetable?' Because it was literal torture. 

  

[00:15:48] And I think I attended maybe for, like, a month or six weeks, and then I started dropping out [of] a lot of the classes because it was ridiculous. It was absolutely ridiculous.

Tyrone Shum:
It was then that he discovered World of Warcraft.

Justin Zhu:  

[00:16:33] I remember I enjoyed the PvE and the PvP part of it. So I think being a naturally competitive sort of person, I just got really into it. And I think my claim to fame was... I think when arenas were out and stuff like that. I think we ended up at one of the top, I think, number one on our server. 

  

[00:17:02] That's my claim to fame. [But] I think my marks definitely suffered as a result. So I think I managed to catch back up in maybe, like, third or fourth year, but yeah, [the] first couple of years was a bit like minority uni, majority gaming.

Coming up after the break, he gives props to those working in certain fields…

[00:21:18] And it's a lot that you're doing. But I think the work that you do there is super meaningful.

Explains how his company’s name came about…

Justin Zhu:   

[00:35:37] I think there's two sort of meanings.

He divulges where he bought his first property, and why.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:28:29] My parents were like, 'Why not just buy in Campsie?'

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:   

Playing World of Warcraft was more than just a hobby for Zhu. Although most people think of it as nothing more than a game, he found that it taught him a lot about real life.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:18:12] I think later on in my career, I ended up working in schools and stuff like that, so I'm talking to those people. It's almost like talking to my past self. Like, dude, the HSC is important, do your best. But really, who talks about their ATAR after they finish high school? Like, literally no one. I was like, 'What was I stressing out for?' So yeah, I can completely relate to them.

  

[00:19:03] Your school time, your first 18 years, it's like your demo in a game. It's your demo. Free to play. You pass 18, you pass year 12— mate, welcome to taxes. Welcome to jobs and real life. It's stuff like that. It's all pay to play from there.

Tyrone Shum:   

In his welcome to jobs and real life, he tried his hand at several different roles.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:19:35] I was working whilst I was at uni. So I did [the] cafe job, I worked at a computer shop, I worked all sorts of odd jobs. I did a medical receptionist job for a couple of years. And then I even worked in Centrelink. 

  

[00:19:56] And the reason I say that, I just read on the news someone got stabbed at Centrelink. So that has reminded me, I'm like, oh, yeah, I do remember that. That wasn't the best sort of clientele sometimes you see there. But then eventually, I did my registration as a psychologist and got my registration. So [I] got my big boy piece of paper. And I started working in NGOs and in private clinical practice.

  

[00:21:01] We definitely need more psychologists in the field. It doesn't help that I've kind of transitioned out! But I think you definitely need more in the field. And yet, it's a long journey. It's like, four years undergrad, two years post grad. And then you've got, like, now I think two years of supervision post grad. So it's like [an] eight year degree. 

  

[00:21:18] And it's a lot that you're doing. But I think the work that you do there is super meaningful. And I think getting to help people at their lowest, or being able to help people who are travelling okay, but just need to take it to the next level. It was one of the most rewarding jobs that I had.

Tyrone Shum:   

His current career as a mortgage broker is worlds away from his time as a psychologist. As a result, it’s something he’s asked about often.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:22:17] I worked for about just over 10 years, maybe 11 years, as a psychologist. And I think the value of helping people and empowering others was always my 'why' [in] terms of doing the job. I had some really amazing experiences along the way. I worked in, like I said, I worked in some schools later on in my career, and some very well known schools like Knox Grammar. And I learnt so much from that experience. 

  

[00:22:51] At the same time though, after 10 years, I think it was a long time listening to other people's problems and stuff like that. And also, I was living this secret, double life. And most people [are like], 'What's the drama there?' 

  

[00:23:12] But I was investing pretty much as soon as I started working a full time job. So, yeah, so I was living this secret double life. And I was like, 'If I wasn't doing psychology, what would I be doing?' And I knew I loved property. So it had to be probably something in the real estate sort of thing.

  

[00:23:37] It was very funny. I ended up talking to my mortgage broker who helped me along the journey, and I was sussing out the options. At one point, I was like, ['Should I become a] buyer's agent?', but then I didn't really like that process of trying to sell someone something, essentially. 

 

[00:23:56] So after talking to my broker, I got into knowing what he had built up and how he did it, and how he had helped me. Like, my portfolio wouldn't be where it is today without him helping me. So I decided that I was sold. I was sold. 

  

[00:24:18] And coincidentally, he had a spot that opened up at where he was working, at his company. So I did my internship there. Really great people, amazing team there as well. And then at the end of [the] internship, I decided to go, 'You know what? This is for me. Now I'm gonna hop out and balls to the wall, get in there and shoot for the moon'.

Tyrone Shum:
Remaining loyal to his gaming roots, once he started his mortgage broking company he knew exactly what to call it.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:35:37] I think there's two sort[s] of meanings. First, GG stands for great people, genuine loans. So I want to build a business and want to work with great people. And at the same time, great loans. So you want the loans to work for your goals and be matched up to what you want out of it. 

  

[00:36:02] And with genuine people, I think I'm a genuine person, and I'd like to build up a team and work with people who are genuine. And that's our sort of values, you can say. 

  

[00:36:13] But, of course, the funnier side is GG is what you type in after a good game. And I think for people who have played games out there, that's my more sort of nerdy or geeky side coming out. We say that to our friends all the time, GG, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's good.

Tyrone Shum:   

A whole wave of people chopped and changed careers during COVID-19, so Zhu wasn’t afraid to join them.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:25:24] I think the main thing was just being able to help people, that was my main sort of 'why'. And I remember talking about it with my wife, and she was like, 'What?! You're going to cut your income by more than 50%?!' I [was] like, 'Yeah, but I think we've built up our portfolio to a place where I think we could make that sort of a move'. 

  

[00:25:45] And if it wasn't for property investing, I probably couldn't make that sort of a move, I probably would have had to keep on doing what I was doing. And there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. But I think it gives you the options of investing. 

  

[00:25:58] But yeah, it was a huge change. And I think no one... I didn't see it coming. It was just like, 'You need to talk to my broker'. Like, 'Oh, hey, what else could I do that?' 'Oh, hey, have you thought about mortgage broking?' I'm like, 'Oh, okay, well, yeah, yeah, sure'. And so that's how it really came about.

Tyrone Shum:   

The switch to become a mortgage broker happened in the second half of 2022, when he’d just picked up his sixth property.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:26:51] I remember talking to Michael and making those changes, and then handed in my resignation. And they were like, 'You're gonna be a what?' 

  

[00:27:04] I never really told... certainly not colleagues, maybe a close few friends that I was investing all these years and investing in property. And I think for a lot of people who I didn't share that with, it was a big shock. It was [a] very big shock.

Tyrone Shum:   

He’d been investing since he started working, but despite his strong ties to Campsie, he didn’t start there.

Justin Zhu:   

[00:27:51] I remember I was doing my internship as a psychologist. I think that's when we bought our first property. It was an owner-occupier apartment. So we bought it because it was close to where I was working. I'm pretty sure I was on like something like $60,000 [to] $65,000 a year. Obviously I bought it with my then girlfriend, now wife. But yeah, that's how I got started.

   

[00:28:29] My parents were like, 'Why not just buy in Campsie?' I was like, 'Well, no offense, I've been here for like 24 or 25 years, I'm ready'. And actually, I remember I'd moved out already with my girlfriend back then to kind of test the waters. So we're out at Wolli Creek so that gave me the thing that was like, 'Oh, there are places other than Campsie to live in, and you can survive and do okay!' 

  

[00:28:56] So we ended up buying in Zetland, because I was working in Rosebery, and my wife, girlfriend back then, was working in the city. So Zetland, I think for the audience that don't know, it's like this sort of inner south sort of suburb, very close to the CBD. And it's very happening these days, like, amazing. 

  

[00:29:21] But when I was moving in, it was just like, there was nothing there. It was just, like, a couple of apartments, a lot of warehouses. There was no Coles, there was no, like, the shopping centre, whatever. That wasn't there. But it was close to work, five minutes' drive. So that was really, really good.

[00:30:07] Zetland, Green Square, Rosebery, Waterloo, it's crazy. Like, it's so dense there now. So it's very, very much changed since when we first bought there in, like, 2013.

Tyrone Shum:   

His portfolio contains five investment properties plus his principal place of residence.

Justin Zhu:    

[00:30:33] I haven't purchased any since 2022. So our last two purchases was in 2022. And since then, it's just been sitting on the sidelines and watching because some of those areas really went up quite a lot. So if a great deal comes along, I'm not going to say no, but I think for now, it's just really sitting back and helping other investors get in there and do it right.

  

[00:31:17] Our own occupier is in North Ryde. And then we have three investment properties in Logan in Queensland, and then two in Perth.

  

[00:31:36] All fully detached houses. 

  

[00:31:44] We bought our place first in Zetland and then lived there. And then it was pretty crazy. Because between that and the first investment property, I met a colleague at work. Her name's Marin, I call her Mez. And I remember talking to her, and she was like... I don't know why the conversation started. But somehow I learnt that she had six properties. And I was like, 'What?' Like, we just bought one, but like, how? 

  

[00:32:22] And she wasn't that much older than me, and she was in the same field as me. So it's not like she had 10 times my income or anything like that. So she taught me so much. She, I guess, was my first mentor you can say, and taught me about property and whatnot. So that's how we ended up. 

  

[00:32:43] Later on, I talked to my broker. And because Zetland started getting built up and stuff like that, the price started going up. So I guess we got kind of lucky, to a certain degree. And it was gentrifying and all these shops were coming up. So we ended up tapping some equity and getting into our first property in Logan.

Justin Zhu’s story continues in the next episode of Property Investory. He shares his thoughts on retirement…

 

[00:01:43] And then I think the reality was talking to people.

 

The story no investor wants to be able to tell…

 

[00:04:23] I think the most recent one, in terms of, like, a horror story you can say, was so we had this property, we have this property.

He shares the two main concepts everybody should have a good understanding of before they start investing.

[00:11:45] I think, if you understand these two sort[s] of concepts as you're starting out, or you're thinking about investing, I think those two things are very golden.

 

And that’s next time on Property Investory.