Welcome, everybody to our session on conflict, managing conflict as a rising executive. Today I have one of my favorite people. Again, I like Michelle, everybody's your favorite piece. Let me tell you about Lynn. Here. I just finished up last night before women of color in STEM virtual summit. Lynn was one of the original speakers from that back November 2017. So when I say she's one of my favorite speakers, like she has something come up, she was literally on zoom in the car, making sure she was delivering content like she was she didn't cancel. She like I got you. I'm still going to deliver, I'm still going to help your people. And that is her level of commitment. Since then. We've done she's been in psychology today. She's what you've done TED Talks at least twice. So she is about that life. So Lynn hurdle is from the Bronx. Yeah. To get to New Yorkers in one day anyway. You get new yorkers, it's the New Yorker day. That's all I say. And she literally has been doing conflict resolution for 40 years. Now. She's not new to this. She's true to this. And she's really about you being able to not only manage the conflict and de escalate the conflict between yourself and someone else. But as a leader, how do you manage conflict? When it's other people that you're with? It's your team? Or you're on the phone and ensure client and another stakeholder? How do you manage that kind of I've been there, I don't know if I did it, right. But I didn't get fired. And the client was happy with the result. But it's really important to understand how to best manage it, especially when you're a woman, you are under represented a woman of color. How does that come about? And what does that look like? So Lynn is here today to share her expertise, do not be afraid to ask questions, do not be afraid to really dig in, we have her for three and a half hours. So I'm gonna hand it over to Lynn, this is her zone of genius. We're gonna learn so much. And I'm really excited about having her here. Welcome, Lynn,

thank you so much I love when Michelle introduced me because it just comes from no more personal space, right? You know, like, you know, as executives or rising executives, sometimes it's gotta be in this order, and look like this and all that kind of stuff. And I just love to teach in a way that's more familiar, right? Because I feel like it's applicable, more to what you are going through day to day. So when warming hurdle from the Boogie Down, but my soul is also California in Southern California to be exact, and I lived by Coastal life last year. And I will be living it again, once we're through the whole COVID. And, you know, definitely live in it again. But I'm thrilled to be here, just to let you know, first of all, that this is a real working session. So when Michelle says if you have questions, that's fine, but also because I like to not only teach the work, but practice the work so that when you have to use it, right that you feel like Oh, right, I did this with Lynn. And this is the feedback I got. So let me apply that now rather than freezing in the moment saying it seems so easy when lencho does the slide, right. But I don't know how to do this. In the moment, I want you to feel like that when you leave here today. So the first thing that I do, and I never do anything accidentally, it's all part of the work. And the first thing that I do is I start with breathing. And I always tell people that the most powerful skill that we have when it comes to resolving conflict is the breath. And people seldom if ever use it or even know about it. Because with the breath, we are able to manage the body. And we're able to put ourselves in a place where we are ready to participate and engage in conflict in a productive way. I've used it myself to lower my own blood pressure when the doctor wanted to give me put me on medication. And she literally gave me 15 minutes and said you figure out something to do because it's too high and you need to bring it down and I use my breath. And so we're going to start with a breath. So all I ask from you is that you just follow along and I'll be instructing you and guiding you so much Let's just get comfortable first or whatever that means for you to get comfortable. And I'm going to get ready. Now, if you are comfortable enough to close your
eyes feel free. If not, you can focus on a point in front of you. And then what we're doing is we are going in. And so we're going to notice, first, any feelings that are coming up for us right now.

And then notice any thoughts that might be racing, and none of this is what needs to be fixed, it simply needs to be noticed.
And then let's move to the body. And we're just going to do a scan of the body to see where there might be tension starting at the top of their head, and going to the forehead area on the ground, every notice, sometimes we have, we can feel a headache coming up, it's already just strong notice thing going down to the eyes. And now it is the jaw and down to the neck. place where we often keep tension and if you need to move it a little bit free to take care of yourself in that way. And then shoulder area, another really big tension place for some of us. Again, if you need to do something there, to down to the back. Again, a place often filled with tension and then shift around to the abdomen. Because when we have unsettled conflict, a lot of times it sits there. So just noticing that the legs or the ankles and toes, want to wiggle your toes moving around. And then turn your attention to the breath. just noticing how your breathing, chest rising loads your belly rising. Just notice
we're going to do a series of breaths. So how it goes is we're going to breathe into the bore count through the nose. And we're going to hold it to the fourth count. And then we're going to release through the mouth again to the fourth count and we will do that four times. So breathing into the nose 234 and hold 234 many ways to the mouth.
Breathing 234 hold on to three, four. Breathing in 234 Hold it, hold it, hold it. Release 1234 Hold on, hold on, and let it go. And then to stay there, stay focused, and really noticing them. And then open our eyes and come back together. Yeah. Beautiful. So I'm going to see what people noticed. And then we're going to move from there.
 So,

Michelle, did
you notice anything?

I noticed I had, well already knew, but that I had a lot of tension in my shoulders. But it gave me the opportunity to really stretch out my body because I've been on the gogogo all this week. And while I have sciatica that's been bothering me, that's what mainly focused on. But then I can feel other places, you know, from the top of my head, maybe a sinus headache coming on. The other things, I was really part by part, understanding where my tissue was, and maybe popping because I'm getting a little bit older, you know, as I was stretching out, yeah. Back crackling pop sounds that aren't serious.

Yeah. Thank you. What am I used to make? Did you notice anything?
I did, I am feeling really anxious. So it's great that we started with this, because I have a lot of anxious feelings. I have big interviews coming up on Monday. And, yeah, I have a lot of preparation to do. To make sure that I'm fully ready. And I've got a full day today of just, you know, things that I've committed to and yeah, that the thought process of all of those things is like.
Yeah, yeah. And where is that said? Right. It's in your body?

Yes, yes. When you said and bring it back around to Gormley. Yep. Right there.
It's right there.
Right there.

Yeah. And we ignore our body so much. Sometimes we use them simply as a place for, you know, to travel our heads, right to keep our heads going from one place to the other and we forget about what's happening with the body. Absolutely. Thank you to Mika Simone. What was the joke? What happened? What happened?
Is that I took it down.

Uh huh. So what does that tell you?
I got kids, you know, I get it.

Right, right. And Simone, let me tell you something. I can't tell you how many times when someone else was conducting the breathing or meditation that I took a nap? Are you kidding? Like, the body's like, really?
We're closing our eyes. And it's not bedtime. Okay.

Let's do this. Absolutely. But I am actually wonderful first sessions. A couple of days ago, we had done a similar exercise. And when closed our eyes and went through Sasha, he went right back there. And I realized I was I quickly went back to that place, and I didn't know. I was like, Oh, I know what this was like, let's let's do this. I so which is which is a, a departure for me. I'm usually tension here, you know, like, anxiety about different things. Um, so it was it was, it was kind of interesting to like, almost like full circle to go back to that. That very quiet space very, very quickly. I went there, apparently. Yeah.

Yeah, that's when we allow our bodies to take over. They do what they need. Right body does what they need. Yes. Beautiful. Josie.
Yes. So I really noticed that, like, I've been having a couple like difficult conversations and conflict at work recently. I always feel it like right here in my chest. And I did talking about oh, we're gonna practice this a little bit. Like I started feeling it a little bit. And then I started thinking about some of the conflicts I've recently had, and then just like going through the breathing exercise, like all of that went away.
Yes, yeah. It's such a great skill. It just is, the better you get at it, the more you can Make it make it work for you, particularly in conflict situations. Yeah. Thank you and Mary, would you notice if anything, good morning, so I feel like I have a lot of stress on my mind related to work and an upcoming trip that I'm making. But one of the biggest things I feel, like I've noticed is that there's a conflict that I need to raise. And I'm nervous about raising it, because I feel like the outcome is going to result in me having to be responsible for the solution. I'm at all for the quit to be responsible for the solution. But I just kind of had an awareness that okay, I just need to identify what I need in order to be successful. So, um, I don't know, I kind of felt like I was still a little bit stressed.

But I gave him clarity and just like being steel for a moment. Yeah, thank you. And, and, and hope Anyway, hopefully, the, you'll get some also additional support here through the work that we're doing today. So thank you think you, was someone going to say something? Okay. All right. So I am going to, to start us off a little bit right here, just know that I am not going through PowerPoint, for the entire presentation, right? Because I really want to be able to have that kind of back and forth conversation with all of you. So I'm Maureen hurdle, I'm known as the conflict closer. And what's the interesting thing about that is I think people have a sense of what conflict closer means in terms of that you are really there to close conflict, right to make sure that it gets resolved. But the other play on that word is closer. And the way that I work is I bring conflict closer to you. So that you can really understand the relationship that you have with it and have an even better one, because most of us do not have good relationships with conflict and conflicts not going anywhere, it's always going to be a part of our lives. So we might as well be in better relationship with it. So I'm a strategist on conflict resolution, best selling author, facilitators, speaker, writer, TEDx speaker, and I make conflict less scary for you. Because what I do is just to get you to know how to be in relationship with it. Because that's the only way you can use it to help you, for you to transform your team to transform if you have one, and yet 40 years in the work. And really what I am interested in doing, and 40 years in the work is to really mix different methods of how I teach conflict resolution, and all that goes along with it. So I'm a theatre background. So I bring some of that in where we do our role plays. And really, the role plays are around practicing the skills that we're learning together and bringing in real life situation. So a couple of you a couple of you sound like you might be sitting with some actual conflicts that you're experiencing. And we may be able to bring those into the practice of the work today.

And then one last night, okay, now, I'm gonna leave us there.

Right. And so, I want to do a go around. And I want to find out from each of you an observation of yourself in conflict, an observation of yourself in conflict, and I never asked you to do anything I'm not willing to do so I will start off and then we'll go from there. So an observation of myself in conflict is that if I do not get in front of the emotions that come up within me, they will take over. And I have to be aware in the moment, you know, this is fear, or this is anxiety, whatever it is, and so how do I manage that oftentimes, I manage it through the breathing, but sometimes it's just enough to know that it's there. And that is creating, whether it's creating heat, or it's just creating this kind of anxious anxiety that shows up and just wanting to kind of pounce on the moment, but whatever it is, I know if I don't get ahead of it, and even expect it, you know that that's what's going to come up for Me, then the conflicts going to go in the wrong direction for me. So that's an observation that I have of self, someone else when if someone want to share their observation of themselves in conflict,
I can go. I'm similar like I just, and when I start getting into conflict that I get, I get very worried I'm going to either get very angry or break down in tears. Mm hmm. And so that in and of itself then makes conflict even scarier, because I don't want to get there. Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. Thanks, john. Someone else to make peace?

I'm most find myself in the midst of conflict when I'm tired. Hmm. As I'm at a lesser degree of thought, is that Yeah, I'm just kind of worn out. So my fuse is short. And who knows what can happen? But yeah, when I'm tired, and, or even just feeling overwhelmed, like I said, I'm, you know, I'm feeling pretty anxious about Monday. So yeah, everything, you know, leading up to Monday until I get through Monday, we'll have some kind of I don't know the word, but there's gonna be some some, you know, like, I can't give it
at all. I don't think I want to. But it is still like, it's, it's, it's, it's within me. Right. So. Yeah. Nice. Thank you certain skills, you're gonna practice those skills? 

And yes, we will take break. Yeah, absolutely. We will not be working for three hours straight, or there'll be some additional conflict that I'll have to deal with, I'm sure. Right. But that's where we're going to be today. So I want to, and I'm glad that piece came up about recording, right, I want us to work on the next skill. Because the first skill was breathing. The next is going into conflict with agreements on how we're going to work and handle that is really important people take for granted something like community agreement, something we're going to make together here to talk about how we want to work together, in order to feel safe enough to be able to bring our whole selves in to the work that we're doing together today. So if you were to use agreements for conflict, if you were to say, listen, we're going to talk about this conflict, let's talk about how we are going to do that so that it isn't just this free for all, and we get to just really vomit on each other. Right? But that we actually are working at this in a productive way. So let's talk about how we want to do this. So having said that, I'm interested in knowing what agreements do we want to make together today in the work and the time that we're working together? What's going to make you feel comfortable and safe enough to bring your whole self to this discussion? And Michelle, if you don't mind? Can you jot them in the chat for us? Great. Okay, so anyone can tell us what, what's something you'd like us to agree to as a community and doing our work together here today. 

And this is Mary, I'm not really sure about how the session is
gonna flow today.  So really, you know, know what type of agreements I need to consider.

Mm hmm. Okay, great, Mary. So the way it's going to flow is that we're going to delve into ourselves around complex. So that will mean that there'll be discussion around something like what I call the conflict stories, which is conflict really starts for us our opinion of it, our view of it our mindset around it starts from the time we were raised, and it's set by the people who raised us whoever that may be, and then reinforced by more and more people as we continue to grow up, right, and we continue to grow in general. So that will be a discussion and you will say as much as you feel comfortable to say around it or not, and then we will work into some skills around listening and around, responding versus reacting and really, I'll be teaching The skills and then you get to ask some questions if you have them. And then what I'll do is, I will give you the opportunity to practice it, because we're on zoom. And because we're a small group, and I don't want to break you up into the breakout rooms for a small group, then I'll give people a chance to actually practice using this skills on a situation where I'll roleplay with you. And that would be to the benefit of everybody in the group to learn from that experience. And I give feedback on that experience. And then we'll have a time when you can do questions and answers. But primarily, that's how we're going to work through it, we're going to talk about barriers as a as a woman, right, rising, executive, rising executive of color, we'll talk about that as well. And that's really how the session is going to flow. So is that helpful to you, Mary? Yes, no. Great. And then and I think that one of the things that I would say is, if we could agree that it is alright, it is okay to say, I'm really not understanding right now. I'm really, it's really not clear for me, right, that we really look out for ourselves in our own understanding, by feeling comfortable enough to ask for clarity, and understanding.

So thank you, Mary, for bringing that up. Yep.
So someone else just one more thing. So I just hope that today's wash day, so this is why I'm not sharing my video, but I just Okay, everyone, since everyone else is on video as well. So thank you.

Thank you for doing that. Yeah. Beautiful. Understood wash day, whatever day, right? Absolutely. All right, someone else let's add to our agreements together.
 
Um, I would say maybe, like being being open to like asking questions. And and not ascribing like any assumptions, or whatever, like, is just a question for clarification. And I don't know, I mean, the sessions, we can ask each other for clarification on their stories, or is it just you know, directly to you, but we're open to asking questions.

All right. Beautiful. Thank you, Simone. And thank you for asking, too. Like, can I ask a question about someone's story? When we get to conflict stories? I actually don't tend to let us ask questions, because I want people to be able to put it out. However they want to put it out. And, and although questions often come from curiosity, sometimes they inhibit us, because we, in our minds feel like it might come from a place of judgment. And so we try to clean it up right or omit things. And then that really stops the learning. Right. But what tends to happen, though, someone I will say that as we continue to work, things kind of circle back around. And often the person in doing the work will relate what we're learning to their conflict story. And so we often get answers to our questions sometimes in that way, as well. But yes, let's be open to asking questions. Yeah. You can ask me anything. For certain. Yeah. Something else we want to put, let's let's do the piece around confidentiality, meaning recording. So what are people's thoughts around that?

Okay, I mean, to be honest, I, um, if you want to get into that level of detail, I would rather than none of this like dark subject.
Because we don't tend to like it much. But we can have some fun in here. And even with ourselves in how we handle conflict, because people I think, tend to come into these workshops trying to impress me. And so they may not say when they blown it and listen, 40 years in, I still blow it. Right. I'm a mother of two sons, and I still blow it. So that's not anything that is going to change. It's just that you, you tend to engage better and better as you gain the skills And then use the skills because you can gain a whole bunch of skills, but if you never use them and if I'm blank, you're never going to get better at it. Alright, so, Michelle, do you mind reading off our agreements?

I surely can. First agreement, it's okay to say I don't understand and request clarity. Second agreement be open to asking questions of each other to get clarification and not make assumptions. Okay. Third one is, and I know I didn't have it on here is to request stopping of the recording, so that you can participate and really get the most out of this opportunity to understand how to close conflict or get closer to conflict. 

I'm like, Yeah, you're right. All right. Thank you. All right. So is everybody feel like they can agree to those? Give me some kind of reaction or hand raiser, thumbs up or whatever, however, you want to let us know. You're good with that.
Okay.

Mary, are you there with me? Yes, I'm good. Okay. Haha, sir. Okay. All right. So let's start with what's your definition of conflict? Right. And we are going to work on it. But what how do you define it? How would we define conflict?
This is Mary, I define, I guess, I define conflict is not being in alignment or
not being.

And it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, an angry type situation, right? As it relates to when you're going to schedule the meeting, or who needs to be involved in the meeting or how something's going to be delivered. 

So there's just not alignment or agreement. There is a complicated alignment
and agreement. Mm hmm.
Okay, thank you.

Someone else have anything they go ahead, please to make?

Sure. So like Mary just mentioned, I thought of not being in alignment, I also feel like conflict is a lot of indifference. So there's, you know, just this indifference and you're, you want to be aligned. But you're says that a difference and to work through it?

Mm hmm. Okay, thank you love adding to our definition, what else? Anybody else have anything they want to add to it before I weigh in on it? Okay, so I want us to think about what what I call conflict, which is the different when different ideas, perspectives, views, come together, but then they stop the progress of moving forward together. Because we can have different I don't know, if anybody's ever experienced just getting along really well with someone who just thinks very differently from you sees these very differently, but somehow you still get along, it doesn't manage to cause conflicts where you're not moving forward together. But the conflict really lies in when those different ideas perspectives come together. They're not aligned. Right. But they're so unaligned that, we're not able to get it done, whether it's a project, right, whether it's that this relationship moves forward, that there's a conversation that we can't seem to have, we can't move forward because of the difference in the room, right? It's not aligning, and we have to find a way to work toward resolving the conflict that's there. And it's also an opportunity for you to get to know yourself better in relationship to conflict, as well as others in relationship to conflict. And a lot of times people really don't view it as that opportunity. But I am asking you to view it as an opportunity and to really be able to when you have a conflict afterwards to do the work of checking in with yourself on what came up for you and how you did in that conflict situation. Not just what has whether it's Oh, thank God we resolved that Okay, moving on, right or, oh my god, we're never going to resolve this and moving on. It's really doing the afterwork as well to say so Lynne, what did you think what was happening for you when you said so and so like, Oh my god, yes. I was willing Getting angry with them. But what was underneath the anger? Like why? What? What is it? Right? So it's really interesting for us to look at conflict as this awesome opportunity. Okay, it just really is. So I want you to see both the difference of opinion not aligning and the opportunity for me to really get to know me in a conflict situation. And I don't know if folks know that in. In the Chinese language, the symbol for a conflict is both crisis and opportunity. And it truly is both. It depends on our mindset. All right, so let's talk about mindset. Where do we even begin to develop a mindset around conflict? Because I'm going to tell you that the opportunity for the mindset to be different, was always there. It's just most people didn't take that opportunity, because they too, were taught that it's negative. Right? And so let's start to think about the people that raised you. How did they do conflict? Because that's what you learned first, right? So the people that raised you, how did they do conflict? I'm going to tell you, so you may get an idea, a better idea of what I'm asking you for. I grew up with both of my parents and my older sisters, she was only a year older than me. And the way that conflict was done in our home. My mother yelled, she yelled at absolutely every opportunity there was that conflict presented or with that was her skill, yelling, and my dad stayed quiet. And on the side, he would come to us and try to work it out a little bit, but never was it that strong model that we had of my mother yelling, right. So I learned.

I learned that number one, I hated conflict, because I hated yelling, right? I hated the yelling. And number two, I learned that it was bad. Right? Something to absolutely avoid. My dad was clearly avoiding it. Right. So I learned that from him. And that it was something that if you did dare talk about it, it was like behind closed doors kind of to the side to the person does. I learned that as well. And so for me, the view around conflict was not a positive view. Okay, so that's really what I'm asking you to be willing to share whatever you're willing to share about how people do did conflict in your when you were growing up. So who would be willing to share with us? This is Maryann reading be inquisitive child, right makes you the troublemaker, and how that extends itself. Even maybe in your mindset today. Right? Being that inquisitive adult, that woman that, you know, whatever, however you identify, ethnically, right being that, wow, that's the troublemaker, as opposed to that's the person that's really curious about what is this about is about, right? Just one comment on that
I can say I was fortunate early in my career, you know, being the only female only black person in the fold of engineers who have children older than me. At the time. Someone said, You're asking good questions, but sometimes people can take your inquiry as
judgment.

So I, I've just learned some things along the way to try to, you know, try to manage judgment being something people can take from my
inquiry. So that was good. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here judging people, you know, people would feel judged. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you, Mary. All right, someone else want to share their conflict story, had the people raised you do conflict. So how is this applying today for me as an adult, and so again, so the work of really resolving conflicts, masterfully involves you're going back to where the mindset was created. And then being able to make the connections to where you are now and recognizing too that it is going to come up even if even with all the skills that I had. Even when you get skills and you start to address your gaps, right in resolving conflict, recognize that because it started so early in you, right? That it's still there. And so the potential for you to want to yell, right, for instance, can come up the potential for you to hide and want to hide from conflict or to even do it can come up, which is why after you're involved in a conflict, to be able to look at what came up and how you did and how you feel about how you did is so important, because you get to catch that Oh, my goodness, right, I still have this gap. So I may want to work on getting some skills in this area, or Wow, that came up with that come from? Well, that comes really back to my conflict story. And that's still coming up for me in some ways, right? Maybe it's not as overt. But it is coming up for me. And I've got to be able to address that. So thank you all for taking that trip. And I see. Yvonne has joined us. Hi, Yvonne. Pay attention to yourself, why throughout this entire workshop, and in relationship to us doing this work around complex. So I want us to start off with what I think is something that people do not enough and need much more practice on. And that is we're going to work on some listening skills, because my experience around conflict is once we decide to engage, we want to get our point across. And we listen up into the point at which we wish to interrupt. And that usually comes pretty early in the conflict conversation, right? Because especially if they hit something that triggers us, right? If the F is like, oh, what Wait a minute, I let me say that. Right, which really interrupts the moment of listening. And then also, what it does is that it takes away from the opportunity to really find out what the conflict is about from their perspective, because now we've switched it to us. And if we're honest with ourselves, let's face it, we already know what the conflicts about from our point of view. So why do we have to jump in there so quickly? To get our point of view expressed, what we really don't understand yet fully, is how they're viewing the conflict we think we do because we assume more than we listen, we assume we know what they meant by what they said, We assume we know how they're going to approach this conflict, we assume we know all about who they are in conflict. And so we're going to work on getting some listening skills under our belt that'll help us to really start to understand the conflict and the person or people that we're in conflict with. So let me introduce to you.

Okay, so I want us to work on some two deep listening skills. The first one is listening for feelings and values, I want to say to you that for the most part, we listen for content, but we aren't listening to the feelings of this person and what they vow you. We I can't even tell you how many times I've been coaching someone who feels like either the person has no values, or that they don't think the only value they care about is that they don't seem to value my opinion in this conflict. But what do they value? What is what they're saying coming from? So in order to find that out, we have to listen to what's not being named. And here's what I mean by that. How many times have you ever heard someone who's in conflict, and they're having a conversation with you? And they say, and I value this, and I value that? And I bet like that's not usually how it goes, we might on occasion, hear them say, like, I value you when your service. But as they're talking about what the conflict is about, they don't tend to use that word. They don't talk in those words. So you have to listen for what's not being named as a value in the words that they are using. So I'll give you a for instance, if I say, you know, coming late is just not negotiable. I feel like you've just missed A lot of things, and it is just really, I think offensive. It tells the person or tells me that you really don't care about how I view things or what I have to say. And so I'm really I'm really getting on you about this lateness thing. So what is it? They've named lateness? 
But what's the value? If you were to respond to them and say, so it sounds like you value what?

Respect? Okay, respect. So isn't that interesting that in in the words that I've said, you hear respect? Yes. Did I say I value respect? No, but you could hear from the words that I'm saying about what lateness says to me that I feel disrespected. Right, and when you come in late, so the value for me is respect. What else because there's other values there. What other value Did you hear?

punctuality, punctuality. Yes. Right. I value punctuality. Anything else? Any other value? Yes. Can you say where you heard that? Do you remember the words? Over Give me a minute, I think. Hold on. What did she say? I didn't quite hear that. communication, communication. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So do you remember why why you picked up communication? No, I
just feel like that came to me.

Yeah. Right. Like you don't want to hear what I have to say or you miss what I have to say. Right. When you're not there for it right when there's lateness so clearly, right. All right. So really listening for that, because you want to be able to speak to that, when it is your turn to speak. All right. So listen to what's not being named. Listen for feeling words. Sometimes we do a mountain sometimes we don't. But one of the things about feeling words, what we tend to do is throw out the safer ones for us. And believe it or not, anger is one of those safer ones because anger sits on top of the ones that are much harder to express. But the ones that often do not get fed. And so then it builds to an angry so listening for feeling words. So I'm going to ask you what do you think anger sits on top of what kinds of feelings build to anger when they don't get addressed?

resentment,
resentment? Yeah. What else before I resent you What might you have done
disrespected me

Okay, just respect what I owe. does not say Oh, dismissal. Yeah. What else? Okay, so what's the so unsupported is the feeling what else?
not heard. ignored,
ignored. Yes. There you go. Hurt disappointment. All of those things lead to anger when they are not addressed, expressed and addressed. Right. So listen for feeling words. And you're listening again to what said and on set. Yeah. Okay. You didn't have my back in that meeting. And I'm, I'm really angry with you about that. Because here we are the only two black women in the company. And when I express an idea, I'm looking for you to have my back. And you did not say a word you sat in that meeting and acted as if what I said was so unimportant. And I never do that when you have an idea. Okay, what feeling words Did you hear that? What what what one feeling did I express? Did I say it in words? important? Okay, that's not a feeling. What's the one feeling I said? In the actual word.
upset.

Close enough angry. I said I was angry at you. What are the feelings that sit under? neath that that if you were really hearing my words you could get what am I feeling you think?
Give it a try. What do you think? What's the feeling underneath feelings? It's lots of feelings in anything anger that I feel like I expressed in more rejected. Okay, reject it. What else? I am always there for you when you have an idea. But you weren't there for me. What's that feeling?
appreciated
and appreciated a stronger one than that
starts with the be
great
saying again, betrayed betrayed. Don't you feel like I've been done you can you hear betrayal in that? we the only two black ones up in here. And anytime you got an idea, I'm right there. But turn around and it's my turn. And you're quiet. betrayal. I feel betrayed. What else might I feel? I'm hoping expecting that you will have my back. And when you don't I feel
let down lack of support.
Yeah, let down disappointed. Right. Maybe I'm even hurt. Yeah, so. So do you understand that listening for feelings is so important. If you're really going to be able to start to address what this conflict is about for this person. Listen for what's important to them what they value, name it, and then do a check in. Did I get that right? Any questions about this before we practice?
So I just have a comment. So I have a bias.
You don't really have
nothing in the way. So being able to bring them out on the table can be an important way to at least get them acknowledged for that person and then begin to work on. So how do we resolve this situation? I can't resolve your feelings for you. But we may be able to resolve the situation between us. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm was it Yvonne that that brought this up?
Um, no, I think it was.

Who was it? Who? I'm sorry? Who? Who? Who said that? Mary. Okay. Sorry, Mary. Okay. So Mary, does that make sense to you? Or? Yes. You have? Yeah. Yeah. Because people are not, trust me. And age has nothing to do with this. Right? If people have not
been taught how to manage their feelings, then they are the feelings are what's going to actually fuel the conflict, and keep it going. So yeah, naming them is going to be important. All right. Thank you for bringing that up to anybody else. question or comment before we actually do a practice. All right. Okay. So it's going to be listened to what's not being named. Listen for feeling words, and I'll guide you through it to name them and do a check in Did I get that right? So I'm gonna stop sharing so I can see each of you to be listening for whatever feelings you might be hearing or, and whatever you feel like, what you're hearing that I might value. And then I'm going to ask afterwards for folks to try to see if you can name it, and then do a check in so doing that, here's what that would look like. So when I heard this particular value, and it sounds like you feel like this, right, these this feeling I've heard this feeling from you. Did I get that right? That's really what I'm looking for from you. Okay. All right. Are we ready to listen to me? And And listen, while you're listening, I want you to observe and notice what might be coming up for you whether it's a trigger or bias, right? It could be Mary, what could come up for you is like, Oh my god, you know, this is not therapy. She needs to just go someplace with all that because that's what comes up a lot of times when we're doing the work like this, but the truth is, it's really valuable to do the work in this way. So you have that at least those skills to be able to guide them. You have to Mika says, I love there. But I know I love therapy too. But sometimes it feels like crossing the line when you do the work in this way. But I know that it's valuable, because if people don't know how to manage their feelings, I have to manage it, I have to manage mine, and then manage there's getting on the table so that we can really work past that and get through to resolving this conflict. Right. Okay, so I'm going to, I'm going to, like I said, I'm going to do a little monologue, and then I'm going to ask for volunteers to see if you can name value and feelings. Okay? All right. So, you know, I'm really, I'm really unhappy right now. Because one of the things that I notice that happens is, you do not share anything about you know, something that is a big project, whenever there's a big project, you're like, really like keeping it to yourself, I don't know whether it's because you want to be the big shot here. And you want to make sure everybody knows how important you are and how smart you are. But it's a team effort, right? We're supposed to be working together. And yet, and still, I cannot seem to get information from you about what in the world we're actually doing. It's like, you have this little private conversation with yourself, that never happens with me. So then I get to look stupid, or I get to look unprepared. And that's not who I am. I'm very professional in the way that I work. I really am someone who's very accomplished, and I want people to understand that. And yet, us working together doesn't seem to get back there. I mean, I'm really, I'm new, you know, I'm new here, you already know that. So I really do want people to understand who I am and how valuable I am to the company. And yet, I feel like you're standing in my way. And I'm almost gonna say that I feel like it's personal sometimes, like you have something against me. And my thing is, if someone has something against me, then be upfront, say what you got to say, you know, we're adults here. And it really does bother me that you have all people you know, come on, you know what I'm saying about that you have all people are standing in my way, it seems like and you're just I think it's just totally unprofessional, the way that you're working. And you need to just get it together, I'm really unhappy here, I'm just like, really unhappy here, getting ready to take some other actions, if you don't get it together, and include me as a team member, because I'm not looking like this, I'm not going up like this.

I said, so you have that authority, right? You can do it that way. Or you can really try to use some skills to problem solve this out. So the person feels heard, so that some solutions get on the table, and then you work toward getting this done, it's resolved in two different ways to listen, those are two different ways to listen. You can choose to leave out all that information, and just going authority, or you can choose to use the information, right extracted and then use it to have a good problem solving conversation.
Does that make sense to folks?

All right, so then, with that said, I want to do one more, one more practice of that, okay, because I really want you to be able to pull it. What was that most typically love to solve problems most of the time, right? Yeah, build on the fact that all these are tech people, right? And so absolutely, there's a problem solving mindset anyway. But feelings and feelings can get in the way, right? feelings can get in the way. And so that's why being able to pull them even if you feel like you know what, I'm not going to put them all on the table. Let me see what's the most valuable one to put here. Right. So maybe you feel like you really felt excluded from getting the all of the information necessary for this particular project. Right? Is that what I'm hearing and then see where that can get you? Because you may not want to go to the more deeper ones that you probably know is happening here. But the exclude it might be a safer one to put out on the table, please Simo? Well, I actually think you did great on this. So I'm gonna move to the next to the next scale because I think you all were able to pull them out. So let me move to the next listening skill, and then we'll take a break. Okay, so listening beyond our comfort zone, feel into the point at which you are not comfortable. Take three breaths and pay attention to your non verbals. Right. So first one feeling to the point in which you are not comfortable. Like I said, that tends to come up pretty early for us. In the conversation, I'm asking you to listen past that point, even if it is really uncomfortable, but it's a point that you want to come back to addressing, but you are letting them give as much information as possible before you address that point. And to get past it, you may have to take those two, three deep breaths, but still listening. And then pay attention to your nonverbals. What am I talking about there?

Body language, I would say like I'm crossing my arms, leaving your head to the side, maybe your eyes are going in a certain circular motion. you're exhaling I get the stance, maybe you chant, you're you're moving back and forth. Like you have all this energy, you're trying to figure out what to do with it. So you move in your, you know, shifting your body from left to right, or back and forth. Mm hmm. I pay attention to those two.

Yeah. And what about Yes? Anybody raise eyebrows you ever been told? Or? I know my mother used to say you can't play poker because it shows all over your face. Right? Like, haha, that was that is not a lie. I know that my face is very expression. But my answer would be well, I can't see my face. So how do I? How do I know what's going on with my face. But know your nonverbals is very important. Because if you don't and you're doing them, then people may have reaction to it, like the crossing of their arms and the legs. I do that as a way of being comfortable. But I have learned that that can tell people if I'm in conflict, it conversation that I'm I'm closing off to what they're saying, right? I'm close. So I don't do it. When I'm in a conflict conversation, because I know that that could happen. You know, I check out their nonverbals you know, like, it's like, Okay, wait a minute, did I do something with my face? Because I noticed you kind of changed and how you're looking at me, like yeah, you raised your eyebrows are? Right. Okay, that's feedback. For me, these are things that I know, in conflict conversations that I have to watch out for these things. Because if I really want to pursue this, this conversation to the end where we really are problem solving, then some of the things that I'm doing, I'm not really helpful to that. All right, so So all of that makes sense to folks. Yep. Okay, beautiful. So, I do want to give I do want to give a break. Michelle, How long had the breaks been?

You have a three and a half hour session. So you have 30 minutes for break so if you want to do 310 to 15
I would like to do 215 if people do not mind doing 215 I think 15 minutes can give you something you know something a little bit of grace time Okay. All right. So we are we're going to come back to we're gonna come back to the to East Coast time if you I'm sorry to east coast on here I am thinking only of me. Yes to East Coast.

So if you're on West Coast, then it's what 11am Lynch should know because she's been by Coastal.

Yes, it is 11 it's somewhere
in between there. So just 15 minutes, just look at whatever time it is instead of 45 in the hour and be back at the top of the next hour.
Yes.

Opportunity aspect of it as well as the divergent ideas perspectives that keep us from moving forward. I want you to please name for me. Something in nature. Anyone? A butterfly, a butterfly. Okay, and one more thing in nature.
Birds,
birds, okay. All right and then give me a household appliance.
Microwave.

Microwave. Okay, one more.
Another washing machine and oven.
Can we know when with a washing machine since oven and microwave? Okay, so here we go folks. Conflict is like a butterfly because you're gonna complete it not me conflict is like a butterfly because
it goes through several stages tonight to it.

Yeah, yeah, nice. Conflict is like birds because
it goes south this like the
I can go south.
Alright.
I love that.
I love that. Okay, great conflict is like a microwave because
you can heat things up in a matter of seconds.

Yeah. As it can eat up in a matter of seconds. Yep. All right. And then complic is like a washing machine? Because
someone who has an answer, Yeah, come on, give it a try. Stretch that stretch that mindset about conflict conflict is like a washing machine because
conflicts like a washing machine, because you can get very, very wet and then confused as part of the conflict situation. But it can also make things cleaner.

Yes, yes. Absolutely. And it goes through cycles to get to that cleanliness. Right. You see, it agitates. Yeah. So this is about this is called the synaptic complex connected and it's about, it's another way to stretch your mind to how you view conflict. Because if every time conflict comes up, all we're thinking about is Oh, God, I hate conflict, or this is going to be bad, or whatever a negative view is, I don't want to deal with this or I don't, I'm an imposter. I don't have the skills to deal with it. If that is always our view, then we're really never going to get to that place where we see the opportunities that it can present. Right. So stretching, stretching the view is a great way to help you to do that. Yes, I do, too. I do, too. This is actually the first time what was the first time anyone said birds, and it's the first summer it goes out. It is so true. Yes. Beautiful. Okay. So let's keep moving. And all right. So we are going to go back to our PowerPoint, and we're going to look at Oh, I'm sorry. Let me take us one further right on, let me finish up listening beyond our comfort zone like listen, one point further past your discomfort. Right. So that's part of the listening and then reflect back to them what you heard. Right? It sounds like what I heard is, which is the paraphrasing, which we did in the first step, when we were reflecting back the feelings and the values, right? It's the same thing and reflecting back on the content of what you've heard someone say. So let me give an opportunity for that before I move forward. And that is that. What I want to do is to go back to the scenario, and I want to ask if you will reflect back on some of the content now, not, not the feelings and the values, but the content of what you're hearing. So, to going back to that scenario, I'm going to say. So the problem that I'm having right is with you as the project manager, not sharing anything with me, or at least keeping things secret about what you're doing and what I'm supposed to be doing in this situation. I don't understand why You can't simply tell me all of the things that I need to do and the things that you're doing. If we're a team, this isn't how the team functions. For me, it doesn't make me look good. And I'm certainly not happy about the fact that you being who you are. And being the one who's the manager is conducting yourself in this way, I need to be treated very differently, I need to be treated as someone who's important on this team. And that means I need better information from you. So I'm going to ask you to reflect back content like and when I say content, like what is this about in terms of content? Because it's about feelings and values to? But in terms of content, what are you hearing?
In terms of content?

You know, moving on.
Oh, there,
get there. Get there. Yeah. All right.

All right. So

we're at the place of respond rather than react. It is really important to understand that most of us react in conflict rather than respond. And the way that you get to respond is that you do have to manage your emotions, in order to get to the place where you're now thinking about what it is that you want to say, and then saying it as a pod as a, as opposed to the emotions start to lead you there. Why so give yourself time to think a lot of us feel like it makes us look bad if we're not able, with the ready answer to get there. I mean, think about even as we we talk about culture, right? And we think about cultural norms, think about even growing up, what was what was a cultural norm around if someone says something to you, about you that you don't like? What's the cultural norm in terms of how you engage? I know, for me, it was, you know, people around like, don't let us say that about you, you gotta say something back. Right? It was that kind of like, you got to come quick. And even in today's society, with social media, it's that quick response. And making sure that you have the perfect clap back. And so nobody gets the best of you. But responding is going to require that you actually take a step back, and give yourself time to think in the moment and understand what you are feeling and why. But there are trigger words that make some feelings come up in me. And if I don't take a moment to think about what I genuinely want to say, as opposed to what my feelings want to say, you understand what I mean, between the two? My feelings have a lot. But that's not what we're trying to come from. We're trying to come from the place of what's going to make the most sense to say if we're trying to move towards resolving this conflict, by engaging in the conversation. So understanding what I'm feeling and why Oh, right. That's what my mother used to say, or do or that's what so and so said, or did, and that's triggering me, right? Here yourself. So when I say hear yourself, if you've reacted already, because believe me, you can go to response, even if you've already reacted, you can circle back. But if you've reacted already hear yourself in that reaction? And is that really what you want to say? Or is that even the best thing to say, in the moment, you can practice a pause and breathe. So if you're going to pause it, give yourself time to think, take some really good, deep belly breaths in that moment. And I've seen people like I need a moment, or give me a moment. Right? Let me get back to you in a moment. Why own a bad start? I can't even tell you how many times the feelings just ran away with me. And it was just bad. And then I came back to say, hey, that is just not what I really want to say or that is that was not helpful to the situation. I own that I apologize for that. And then do a rewind, can we start again? Here's what I really meant to say. Do a rewind. Like let's let's have this conversation again. And then we Mind yourself through out of your desire to have a meaningful conversation when it starts getting tough to say to yourself, Well, what is the goal? What's my goal here? My goal is to have a meaningful conversation about this, and then to problem solve it. If that's my goal, how do I stick to that? While I'm going to have to remind myself several times throughout a very difficult conversation, that that's my goal, if my goal is to win feelings will lead you to reaction, if my goal is to make them look small feelings will lead to reaction if my goal is to remind them that I'm in charge. And what I say goes, then feelings will relieve will lead to reaction, if your goal is to have a meaningful conversation about this, and then resolve it, then your work to go to respond, rather than react or your work to circle your way back to respond.

Rather than react.

Yeah. Does that make sense? Okay, so I want to go I want to go back to you, Simone. Because the reason why I put this he put us back to I said, I would like to address what you were talking about in this slide. And this situation, is because in order to address it don't know, when for a better word, for lack of a better word, do something else other than this, and here we are. back to square one. You hear me reacting? I'm not saying that you don't feel like that? I'm saying that it doesn't feel good even to say that. But I'm saying if we're having meaningful conversation and engaging in resolving conflicts, where's that going to lead us in relationship to this? If that person can respond in in the way that you're reacting, then fine, then that's the kind of conversation you're going to have. But if you really especially rising execs, you got to be the one that really has the skills and puts them out there. So respond rather than react. So this person is still doing the same thing, right, Simone? Yes. Okay. So what do you want to say? This is all of us, we can use this approach.

Yeah. I just want to say yeah, if I'm having a similar conflict situation when somebody and I got to a point where I just I got really angry. Oh, my nose. Okay. Yep. Cool. All right.

So I want to share this piece, because I think that, okay, how to take the parts of conflict that everyone dreads, and turn them into learning experiences. Because when we start talking about why people avoid conflict, so these are some of the reasons right emotional outbursts, that's the last thing that people want, either from the other person or for yourself, like, I'm afraid, I'm just going to lose it. Right long silence. There's a real fear of silence when we're talking about conflict, or fear takes over, like, you're really just petrified to have this conversation or maybe fearful of the person and the way that they conduct themselves. Now, I had a manager who was just out of control in the way that she engaged in conflicts and, and very me, it's very, very mean. And it's interesting, you know, just by accident, I learned that she was using cocaine very heavily. And so I was like, oh, okay, like, this is where that is coming from. But it definitely the fear would take over anytime I felt like there was going to be conflict between us, or the part you dread is that you've just made it what like, something you're going to do is going to make it worse. Right? And so you don't want to deal with that. So emotional outbursts. Here's the deal. I know most of us don't like it, right, whether it's from ourselves or from others, but emotional outbursts give us information. There is something happening here for this person, either you've hit on something that is really important to them, but somehow they do not have the skills to articulate it in a way that you could be helpful to helping them with this particular thing. Or an emotional outburst can tell you just as You set them on, they do not have, they weren't prepared for this, right? There's something else that's getting in the way that most likely has nothing to do with this conflict. And so this is not something that I'm going to take personally at all, this emotional outburst is not about me, it's about something else. So being able to look at that when I was doing, I used to mediate civil complaint cases. And in particular, in the black and brown communities, emotional outbursts were part of that all the time. And I started to really just recognize that sometimes people just really need to get it out in that way. Or sometimes it's most of the time is just really not about me. It's really about whatever they're feeling that they're not able to articulate. So it comes out in that way. And when I was able to clear the air with myself around that, I was able to literally sit back and try to see, is there something in this outbursts? That's going to be helpful to me? Right? And what I mean by that is, I can say, Ah, you know, Michelle, I'm gonna tell you, I really don't like that you do this. And I mean, like, this is ridiculous. This is so silly. It's just ridiculous. Now, you don't get a lot out of that, because there's more name calling than there is information. But if I'm saying, Michelle, oh, my God, this report was so out of line, like, we didn't do anything right in this report. And the report was late, and I thought you were going to be doing this part and you didn't do that part. And so when you didn't deliver the charts to me, I'm standing up there looking stupid. Now, that's an emotional outburst. But did you get information from that outburst?
What information did you get?

They are feeling pretty hurt. And, um, you know, you you're upset, and you're part of is you just feel like you need to be heard.
Yeah, but what else did I say? I gave you content in there. What was the content?

Um, you were upset about just Josie,
I'm gonna stop you for a minute. Why don't you think that content is not the clearest part for you? What stopped you from hearing the content?

I was spending a lot of time trying to pay attention to the field. Okay.

Right, because it's an emotional outburst. So you're trying to pay attention to the feelings? Yeah. Yeah. But okay. And this is new, right? Trying to listen in so many different ways. It definitely takes practice, right. But also whatever comes up for us when someone gets emotional, and this was a roleplay. But think about when people are having emotional outbursts. There's barriers for you because you get triggered by that outburst. So you have to really hear them, all kinds of things are working for you. Like for me, it could be You got to be kidding me. You're behaving in this way. And you're in charge of me, you're the manager like that. Whereas I really need to focus in and listen, can I can I get something else from this, as you said, you listen for the feelings. The content is also there to anybody get any of the content?

I think what I heard was the represent drove the ball and giving you the charts and the spreadsheets or whatever for the presentation on so you were supposed to present something without the required information. Right? You're very upset about that.

That's right. Absolutely. So the combination of things What do you got Josie and what you got some All right, that combination says that there's no reason to be intimidated by this emotional outbursts, because you were able to get something from it where you can hopefully try to use that as a way to have the conversation. One way to de escalate someone is to let them know that they've been heard and to start really giving back their words and working towards Can you really try to resolve this particular thing, Simone? Why you laughing?Michelle?

Oh, Michelle had to come in. What is it really to me? The other people, but when you do have it, you absolutely stand out. So as you said, Simone, like you can really appreciate when you see somebody One that has that you can really appreciate that. And I'm the same way when I see parents who have that, I really appreciate that it's a switch, it's a switch that I made in parenting, my sons, and was that I much prefer to be the parent that would really go the distance and trying to have the conversation and trying to understand rather than using my power to shut it down, and I say that to parents, and I say that to managers, no one can take that card from you, you know how you play cards, if you got to play cards, and Oh, God, I have to say the word you have the trump card, right? And you know, you can play that. And it's gone, shut it down, right, but you don't have to play it, you can decide to hold on to it. And that's the piece when you know, you're in the power position. If you put up that power as long as you can, and try to use the skills to actually engage in the conversation, it becomes much more powerful. Because the conversation actually helps to build the relationship, which is what is the thing that you're going to be able to draw on, right and getting things done again, and again and again. So really working on looking at right using this what I'm talking about now. So when you have an emote, when somebody has an emotional outburst to look at that when you are the one having it, look at why. What came up for me what got in the way, right? What took over? And why did that take over, so that you can use that as information for yourself going forward? Not to get carried away like that again, right to use the skills to stay in? long silence. How many of you hate silence? Like that is really you really hate it? Yeah. Okay, so you've got to figure out why Simone. Why Why do you? Why don't you like it? Just Just talk to me.

I don't care if you're shouting, just silence kills me
that okay. Silence really triggers you. Okay, Josie. Why don't you like it? Oh,

I mean, I think specifically, because my leg has been will just go into silence for like, 20 or 30 minutes. And like, when we're having an argument, and I'm just like, say something to me. I'm like, I can't I can't deal. response.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a, it's a personal, it's a personal trigger for you. Right? Yes. And it is for a lot of people. But one of the things around conflict, and I'll make a connection with culture to their cultures, in particular, Asian cultures, weird silence is actually not so much that you're you're doing it intentionally, it comes from two places I find one is that culturally, you do not want to say something that's going to embarrass or shame that the other person. And so conflict is often looked at in that way, if you really speak out that you are making yourself look bad, and that person, the other is that silence can be an active way to do the work. For instance, I want you to notice something that I did earlier. And that is when I asked a question of everyone. And I sat in silence, until someone responded, I could have used that silence to make myself uncomfortable and say, Okay, well, I'll I'll say something, you know, or I'll give an answer. But what I did was I use the silence to allow you time to work on a response, right? rather than be uncomfortable with it. And I've learned to stretch that silence longer and longer. It's something that I use with my sons bringing them up is because I believe that the answer is somewhere within there, there may be discomfort in sharing it. But if I give you the space to reach for it, you might just take that space, and then you might just say what it is. But if I if I allow myself to be intimidated by the sidelines, then I'll answer it for you. Or I will assume that I know what this is about, or I'll avoid again, okay, well, you know, they don't want to talk about it. So let me we're not going to talk about it that right. So really recognizing that long silence doesn't have to be intimidating or deadly or mean that they They're actually trying to get back at you. And that there are, there are different meanings to silence and the way that you counter it is to get comfortable with silence
and let it work for you.

And then fear takes over, right. So if fear is taking over in a conflict situation, it's really important for you to know what you're afraid of.
Because a lot of times what we're afraid of is really up
to our imagination of how bad this is going to be, or what this is going to lead to, as opposed to the reality of the situation. So to tap into, what's my fear? If I'm afraid if I say, X, Y, and Z, then they're going to think, ABC of me, right? Is that really what's gonna happen? Is that really true? What's it based in? What's it based on? Where's that coming from, for me? To really be able to take a look at that, and then made it worse. So what happens if you make it worse?
What's the fear of making it worse?
Like there's no coming back. There's
no recovery. Yeah,
good. That's a common one.

But a lot of times there is. We just convinced ourselves that there isn't, like I said to you, and respond versus rather than react on a bad start. And then we whine. Lots of times, that is really possible. But we've convinced ourselves that it's not that there's no that there's there's no coming back from this, I really messed it up. And there's no way that this is going to be resolved. And the truth is, that first way is owning, owning it. That was really bad. Right? Even as I will say, even not even even as, especially as parents, we really are taught that that there's no need to own them. Elena bad start, we are the authority figure. So we just said we sat and we might say to ourselves, yeah, well, I messed up, but I'm not gonna tell him that because I'm the mom. They're just the kids. So I don't have to tell them that I did the wrong thing. Right. But owning a bad start is is such a high level conflict resolution skill, that when you can do that, it is a it is often very appreciated and often received in the spirit in which you're giving it and then responded to by, okay, let's start over or let's continue the conversation. All right, but you got to be able to be willing to, to do that. And I find that a lot of managers are not, they're not good at that particular piece of saying this, this came out wrong.

So you want to be that manager that can do that.

Alright, so I want to talk, I want to talk to flip to this, because this is absolutely what I'm teaching. But the flip to this is barriers to doing this work in this way. What are some of the barriers, and I want you to think about cultural norms when you think about barriers as well. So you could think about tech culture, you could think about your, you know, ethnic culture, or religious culture or whatever. But think about the barriers to doing this.

Someone want to name one.
I would always share that I'm gender wise, sometimes I'm not too sure feedback,
but it just makes you feel terrible. How do you manage your emotions around that to get benefit from that feedback? Right, and to not go into the place of really making yourself feel badly because you need work? Like everybody needs work? Everybody needs work. Everybody needs work. You You could be at the highest level and you still need work right? Everybody needs work. So. So I'm looking at the time, wow. So fast, I just want to see if there is anything that anyone wants to really ask at this point. Because I would like to get a quick closing in, but I want to make that the behavior. If we're if we go for the person, then 

First of all, they're most likely going to react in some way, and that behavior is not going to be addressed. So think about what's the behavior, and what's the effect that it is having when you are on others, and formulate your sentence, or, or two or three, wherever many sentences it takes to put that on the table, but shot out with what I call a door opener. A door opener is really the invitation to have the conversation. So it could be there's something that happened at the meeting that I would love for us to talk about, or I'd really love to have a conversation with you. About. Right. So that that's the door opener, the invitation to the conversation, and then it is so so Simone, what I really wanted to share with you is that in this last meeting, when you called me out on the mistake that I made, here's what didn't work for me. Right? You raised your voice. And, and you you chose me in particular. Right? If that's, you know, that's the sentence that I've decided to formulate, right, and you chose me in particular, as opposed to some mom? What a terrible way to manage that you would call someone out. You know, you call me out, and you single me out in front of the entire team. I don't, I'm really stunned that you would do that. That is just such a poor way to manage people. Now, I've said what you did. But I've also made it personal. Right. And while it is the person doing it, so in that sense, it's personal. If you really want to raise conflict, you don't want to go for the personal, you want to go for the behavior and see if you can get them to talk about that. So that would be my response to that, Mary. Hi. All right. So I want to say thank you to everyone. I've really enjoyed spending the time with you. And I'd love to add just no take away anything that you're taking away from this time together.

So Josie, do you have a takeaway? Anything the rest of your day is wonderful. Thank you for this opportunity. Michelle. You're very welcome.

Thank you, Lynn for coming through, as usual for being a plug. This has been really great. So y'all have seen the last I don't know this is week four. The speakers are the fourth day Have you want to look at it. So hopefully they are helping weave together for you. strategies and tactics and techniques you can use as you're advancing your career as you're encountering different barriers. Now you know how to deal you have some tactics right to use when dealing with conflict. So Lynn, thank you so much for joining.
My pleasure. See everyone