Property Podcast
Learning Every Aspect of Business and Expanding: The Fayad Brothers Fly the Nest.
March 21, 2021
With over 20 years of property and construction experience in a variety of project and executive-level roles, Fayad Fayad is the co-founder of Ellerson Property. Established by Fayad in conjunction with his brother Remon, Ellerson Property is a development group specialising in the creation of premier residential, retail and commercial property, both in the Sydney market and across the country.
Join us in this episode as we learn about Fayad’s experience with construction in his early years. Learn how he thrived in the business straight out of school, climbed his way through the ranks of the company and recently took the leap to start his own business, developing large-scale projects with his brother Remon.

Timestamps:
2:37 | THE BROTHERS PREFER PRACTICALITY TO A HIERARCHICAL STRUCTURE.
4:54 | THE FAMILY HAVE ALWAYS LIVED AND WORKED IN THE WESTERN SUBURBS OF SYDNEY.
8:02 | FAYAD AND HIS BROTHER WERE BOTH INTO SPORTS.
10.54 | FINISHING SCHOOL DIDN’T MEAN THE WORK WAS DONE.
13:53 | FROM EARLY CHILDHOOD HE REMEMBERS BEING ON CONSTRUCTION SITES.
16:51 | OVER 20 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE HAS TAUGHT THE BROTHERS A THING OR TWO.
18:51 | RESPECT NEEDS TO BE EARNED, SO THAT’S WHAT FAYAD DID.
21:48 | OVER THE YEARS THE BUSINESS HAS DEVELOPED INTO SOMETHING NEW.
27:52 | THE BROTHERS HAD A CLEAR GOAL IN MIND WHEN SETTING UP THEIR BUSINESS.
 
Resources and Links:
Transcript:
Fayad Fayad:
11:39 I was speaking to him the next day, talking about this school, and I said, 'Yeah, I'm all done'. And he goes, 'Okay. Tomorrow, you're on the site, full time'.
 
**INTRO MUSIC**
 
Tyrone Shum:
This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.
 
I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with Fayad Fayad, co-founder of property development agency Ellerson Property. Fayad’s experience with construction began when his dad pulled him into the workforce after his exams finished. Learn how he climbed his way through the ranks of the company to develop large-scale projects with over 15,000 units! 
 
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Tyrone Shum
After years of experience working as part of his fathers company, Fayad and his brother took the plunge and launched their own business last year.

Fayad Fayad  
00:42   The way I approach my business is that I work for my business, and I work for my staff. So what that means is that I don't have a typical day—apart from my set meetings that I have with various different team leaders—my day usually consists of attending to the business's needs.

1:16 So whether that might be attending a construction site to make some decisions out there or give some guidance, or jumping into a sales meeting to help advise or just roaming around the office and making sure everything's okay, and then dealing with their questions. So I'm very responsive to emails. I don't like to have so much of a structured day apart from my timings. But what my days consist of is really attending to business and staff needs.

Tyrone Shum  
Being co-founders, how do Fayad and his brother split the responsibilities of the business?

Fayad Fayad  
2:07 Currently, my title in the business is co-founder. So we haven't at the moment decided on having a typical structure, my brother and I, so we've decided at the moment— it may change in the future— but at the moment, we'd like to be dual founders. And then we have a general manager that oversees the operations. 

THE BROTHERS PREFER PRACTICALITY TO A HIERARCHICAL STRUCTURE.

2:37 And then with him, there are the team leaders, whether that be in planning, sales, marketing. So it's a very flat structure, we don't like to be very hierarchical. So it's very much, whatever you need to get the job done, that's all we need. It's not about setting up a myriad of reporting lines, it's just 'let's get the job done'. So that lends itself to us, Remon and I, to be co-founders, which is more practical, rather than a typical CEO sort of arrangement.

Tyrone Shum 
3:13  Absolutely. You guys have had a very interesting background in your history, working in property development for pretty much your whole life and you've grown up in that family of it. But let's jump back then to talk a little bit about yourself personally and get to know you. Maybe let's first start off with where did you grow up?

Fayad Fayad 
3:34  So I grew up in the Western suburbs of Sydney. So where we are now, I grew up five kilometres down the road so we just maintain the area. So I haven't gone far from where I've grown up.

Tyrone Shum  
3:53  What's it like to actually grow up, go to school in the area and then also work in the area and now that you're only five kilometres away from where you grew up? What was it like for you to go to school and stuff like that?

Fayad Fayad  
4:08  The family has a lot of background in the area, so my uncles went to school in the area, my mother went to school in the area, so it is home, but it didn't feel like I was brought up here, it was the family who was brought up here. So the schools I went to, my uncles went to, both primary school and high school. So the feeling was born before I actually went into the schools. 

THE FAMILY HAVE ALWAYS LIVED AND WORKED IN THE WESTERN SUBURBS OF SYDNEY. 

4:54 It's a very proud feeling, what it was like to grow up in this area and to be in this area at the moment, still doing business. And the way I drive to work is the way my mum used to drop me off to go to school. So it's kind of it's same road, just a bit further down the road. So it kind of takes me back, memory lane every morning on the way to work.

Tyrone Shum  
5:25 So mum would drive you to school, you'd go down that same path which you drive to work as well. What were some of the fond memories that you had back in school? So, primary school, growing up?

Fayad Fayad  
5:44 There's not much I remember at primary school, I guess. I do definitely remember my first day, and the tail end of primary school, getting into year four, five and six. I just remember it being a very tiny school. There were about 170 [or] 180 students in the school. So it's very close knit.

 6:09  I remember one of my fondest memories of primary school was the weekend sport. I was into education, but the highlight for me was the weekend sport. I actually played rugby league from the age of four and a half all the way up to 13. So that was my whole primary school years.

Tyrone Shum 
6:55 So tell me a little bit more about the rugby side and the sporting side, what drew you into doing those activities?

Fayad Fayad 
7:01  I think with rugby league, being in the Western suburbs of Sydney, I used to follow— and I still do follow— the Parramatta Eels. And I think even in the early days, maybe even before starting rugby league, I used to watch it on the weekend or on a Friday night, and then it'd be something that I'd want to aspire to do. 

7:39  So naturally being involved and supporting a team and then actually playing for your own team on the weekend. We kind of just rubbed off on each other. My heroes of the day were on Channel Nine on a Friday night on the football field. 

FAYAD AND HIS BROTHER WERE BOTH INTO SPORTS.

8:02  So when I had the opportunity to play for my school, it was what I wanted to do. Apart from other sports as well. So that was my level of respect or the level of following I had for the professional footballers on the field, watching on TV. It just meant that I had to do that myself. So yeah, just following in heroes' footsteps, I guess.

Tyrone Shum 
8:37  That's great. So did that love of sport continue on all the way through into high school as well?

Fayad Fayad 
8:43  Yeah, it did but I think when you get older, it gets a bit... not so much physical, but it gets a bit more professional. And I guess when I was younger, I was probably the biggest boy in class so my size would do the work. But getting older, I had to do a bit more. Training three nights a week. I went to a great school but it was kind of... I had to choose where my mindset was going.

9:11  'Am I going education or am I going sporting?' Our school was so dominant and so disciplined in their sporting that it was very hard to balance both. So coming from an ethnic background, I guess the best way or the most acceptable decision would be to go down the education route and leave the sport for our younger days, I guess.

Tyrone Shum 
10:04 And I guess going to school as well, did you go to the same school as your brother as well? 

Fayad Fayad
10:09  Yeah, we went to the same schools. We were, six years apart, but we followed the same paths. So I went to Marist High in Parramatta for my high school, just in Westmead there.

Tyrone Shum
10:22 And what was it like? Because six years apart usually would probably be just when you're finishing high school, and then he's starting high school as well. 

Fayad Fayad 
10:29  Yeah. I helped him in kindergarten when I was in year six, we kind of spent a year together at the same school, then I moved to high school, and then he carried through to primary school. And then in high school... actually, we didn't cross paths. I finished before he actually started. 

FINISHING SCHOOL DIDN’T MEAN THE WORK WAS DONE. 

Tyrone Shum
10:54  So let's say you finished high school, what did you do after that? Did you go out and start working, getting some experience? Or did you also go into further education and studies?

Fayad Fayad 
11:31 So straight after high school, I remember my last HSC exam was on a Thursday. And my father, actually, I was speaking to him the next day, talking about this school, and I said, 'Yeah, I'm all done'. And he goes, 'Okay. Tomorrow, you're on the site, full time'. So yeah, last exam, I can't remember what that was exactly. But Thursday was my last exam. And Saturday I was on the construction site. So if my dad found out I finished on the Thursday, I think I would have been there on the Friday. And I've been at work since.

Tyrone Shum  
12:09  Gosh, oh, you gotta love your dad.

Fayad Fayad  
12:16 The next January, I went to do building studies at Hornsby TAFE. And did four years there, finished my building course. And yeah, that was it for education, formal education.

Tyrone Shum   
Fayad’s family have been in the development space for decades. What was it like for him to grow up around that? 

Fayad Fayad 
13:08  I guess it was very aspirational. So my earlier days, even at school, being brought up in a property family, I guess it was something to look up to and be proud about. So I guess it was very easy to be brought up in the sense that I was very proud of it. I was very proud. I was very eager to learn from my father, from my uncles. I don't know if it was second nature, because I grew up on the construction sites. 

FROM EARLY CHILDHOOD HE REMEMBERS BEING ON CONSTRUCTION SITES.

13:53  I mean, in my early days in primary school, my weekends were on site, obviously not like slave labour, but just accompanying my dad to the site and playing with the sand. I wasn't really working. But just being in the environment actually instilled something that is still with me today. So being in the family definitely wasn't forced on me. It was more like I was supported in the direction that I took. 

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Tyrone Shum:
Coming up after the break, Fayad reveals the struggles he faced as a young labourer. 

Fayad Fayad:
16:03  It's hard to come in and tell people who are more experienced than you, to do something that they've done better than you.

Tyrone Shum:
We learn the efforts he went to in order to open his own business. 

Fayad Fayad:
18:22 I made a point of dabbling in every section of the business, whether that be in marketing or sales or actually getting into the day to day, the nitty gritty.

Tyrone Shum:
We discuss the progression of his fathers business over the years. 

Fayad Fayad:
21:54 So coming into the company, property development was just done by my dad and my uncles and a few planners and bankers, and that's it. But the other 98% of the company were out on the construction sites. 

Tyrone Shum:
And that’s coming up next.

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Tyrone Shum
Having been exposed to the development world from a young age, the work came naturally to Fayad when he picked up his first tool. But he still had a lot to learn before he could reach the top.

Fayad Fayad  
15:18 Construction is very dog-eat-dog and just very structural, very tough. I don't know if it's the way I was brought up, but I didn't come in as the owner's son, I guess. I started on the construction sites as a labourer, sweeping the units, mixing cement for the bricklayers. And I worked my way through the levels that way. 

15:55  So I didn't come in from the top for a couple of reasons, I guess it's just not in my nature to do that. And two, it's hard to come in and tell people who are more experienced than you, to do something that they've done better than you. So it's not very authentic to do that. So I worked my way through the sites, from labourer, to leading hand, to site foreman, project manager, construction manager and where I am now. 

Tyrone Shum
16:27  That's amazing. So how long were you working within your family's business, as well?

Fayad Fayad  
16:32  So I started in '99, when I finished school. So full time from late '99, all the way up to last year, actually, where I was full-time in the family until right now, where Remon and I have established our own development company.

OVER 20 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE HAS TAUGHT THE BROTHERS A THING OR TWO.

Tyrone Shum
16:51  Yeah. And you would have taken a lot of great experiences over that period of time to be able to establish something that is yours. And now your brother's as well, too. 

Fayad Fayad  
17:01  Yeah, correct. There's a lot of lessons, a lot of good lessons, hard lessons, that came out of that 20 plus years, that set us up in a good frame of mind and good backing to set up something new. So it is new, but it comes with old and tried and tested processes, I guess.

Tyrone Shum  
Working on sites wasn't the only thing he did over the years. How did Fayad prepare to become a business owner himself? 

Fayad Fayad   
18:22 I made a point of dabbling in every section of the business, whether that be in marketing or sales or actually getting into the day to day, the nitty gritty, so that when I was eventually overseeing all of them, I could speak to the sales manager, in a, 'I've been there, done that' sort of thing, rather than, 'Well, I'm here, I'm the boss, just give me your reports and report to me', and crack the whip and that sort of thing. 

RESPECT NEEDS TO BE EARNED, SO THAT’S WHAT FAYAD DID. 

18:51  So I made a conscious effort to not spend just an hour in every department but actually spend a good portion of up to months in different departments, working with the teams to get firsthand experience of the ins and outs of every department. So that set me up and fast forwarded me. In the future, it allowed me to speak and earn the respect with them receiving whether it be an instruction or guidance from someone that has been with them and been in the trenches with them. 

Tyrone Shum  
19:36  And that is so key and fundamental because when people actually understand that you've actually been there and done that and you can talk their language as well, too, they appreciate and respect a lot more. 

Fayad Fayad  
19:53  Yeah, it's correct. And also I acknowledged that I've got people around me who are better at things than what I would be. And that's why they're in the business. So let's face it, spending one month in a sales team is not going to teach you everything. It does allow you to set frameworks and guidelines and give a bit of direction. 

20:24  But at the end of the day, when it gets down to the nuts and bolts, you have to rely on people and take advice from people. And then I'd like to say that I really listen to people and I'm not arrogant in that sense, where I know best.

Tyrone Shum  
When Fayad joined the business over 20 years ago it was mainly a construction business, so it was natural for him to go into that side of the work. 

Fayad Fayad  
21:14 I started on the construction sites and my family's business commenced as a construction company, which then evolved into construction and property development. So at the outset, from the establishment phase, it was a contract builder. So when I started in the company, in '99, it was at that stage where the company was more construction, and had a little office of development. 

OVER THE YEARS THE BUSINESS HAS DEVELOPED INTO SOMETHING NEW.

21:48  Whereas these days, it's kind of the other way around. So coming into the company, property development was just done by my dad and my uncles and a few planners and bankers, and that's it. But the other 98% of the company were out on the construction sites. So at that time, that's when I did start in the business. So it was kind of natural to be construction. And being there, that's where I started and spent most of that time. 

22:25  That's probably why I've got that construction background in me. That's my sense of release now, heading out to a construction site, even if I don't need to attend to anything, I just— rather than going out for a walk outside— I just duck down to the closest construction site and do a few laps through the building there. Just to get a bit of a recharge.

Tyrone Shum  
How did the business develop over time?

Fayad Fayad  
23:38 The construction team stayed as it is, if not grew even larger. It's the fact that the property team became a group. So in terms of where myself and my father would spend time, instead of being 90% construction site and then from four to six at night, looking at how the plans are going at the council, it became more of our nine to five. 

24:11  And so we had to engage employee construction managers and project directors to oversee the construction business, because we've got that pretty much down pat. It didn't evolve from construction to development. Construction remained, and development just kind of grew another wing. Rather than evolve, it just expanded. So yeah, probably in the early days we had 98% of the staff on construction sites, and 2% in office, and now it's probably 60/40. 

Tyrone Shum  
Fayad explains the difference between property construction and property development. 

Fayad Fayad  
25:49  So the developer would buy the site, he would get the approvals, then pass the plans over to the construction side of the business, which is the builder. Build the building, the builder would hand it back to the developer, then do what they want to do with it, either sell it, live in it, rent it out. So I guess the best way to explain it would be if you were to engage a handyman at your house, you are the developer, and the handyman is the builder. So you actually have the final say, you rely on the builder's expertise to actually get the job done.

Tyrone Shum 
26:31 So for Ellerson Property, at this point in time, where do you lie at the moment? Or, where does this company lie? Is it more property development, or still be the construction?

Fayad Fayad  
26:55 We like to see it as a property development agency, rather than a typical property developer, that owns the land and does everything from planning to sales. And as a landowner, Remon and I have consciously set up the business so that it's like an agency model. 

27:22  It currently provides the property development services for family assets, whether that be construction or office buildings that the family owns. And in our past, we've always been approached by other landowners that don't quite know how to get buildings up and running, whether that be from planning, to construction. 

THE BROTHERS HAD A CLEAR GOAL IN MIND WHEN SETTING UP THEIR BUSINESS. 

27:52  And we'd always have to turn them back because working for yourself and then working for someone else, there's different dynamics. There's a lot more reporting when you're working for a third party rather than for yourself. So when we set up Ellerson Property, we made the conscious decision that we want to future-proof it in such a way, that should someone have a parcel of land but they don't have the expertise to actually get an approval or get construction or sales or funding, they can come to us and and do it from that end.

**OUTRO**
 
Tyrone Shum:
Fayad Fayad’s story continues in the next episode of Property Investory. Join us for part two where we’ll talk about the technical aspects of building developments.

Fayad Fayad:
6:23   Structurally, it's fairly similar. It's just the property, it comes down to zoning as well. So we buy a lot in the residential areas.
 
Tyrone Shum:
We learn about Fayad’s personal investment journey. 
 
Fayad Fayad:
9:37  My first development was actually an investment property to start with. I purchased a $500,000 four bedroom home on a block of land, a typical suburban home, cottage, I guess.

Tyrone Shum:
Fayad shares his experience in hotel development.

Fayad Fayad:
32:22 I don't want to pretend I know it just because I've built a couple of structures before and had hotel operators in and around me. I don't pretend that I'm a hotel operator.

Tyrone Shum:
And that’s next time on Property Investory.