Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speaks with Daniel Neal
from Bradsfield & Gorrie.
Daniel discusses his career and how he got started in safety and how he got into HOP. This was , recorded live at ACFS
- Safety Day 2021 from Orlando FL!
#HOPNerd #SafetyRadio #SafetyPocast #EHS #SafetyDay #SAfetyFM #BITW #KOASM
[00:00:00] spk_0: it begins in Orlando florida and travel steadily to the west, beaming across north America and planet Earth into your head world of safety never stops. And now the safety FM podcast and broadcast with DR J Allen, we are streaming live from the safety of the show. Now, this episode of the broadcast and the podcast is brought to you by Safety Focus Moment. Their consultants that want to help you get the safety culture you've been looking for, for more information. Go to Safety Focus moment dot com. Okay. I told you from the very beginning that this is where we're gonna be hanging out live today, talking about the things that are going on in the A C. F s safety Day 2021. Uh, so I am here here here here here hanging out with Daniel. I don't know if I'm allowed to say where you work and I'll leave it. Matter fact, I'll leave that up to you. Say hi Daniel. Hello everyone. So Daniel, what brought you to this lovely event here today? How did you hear about? What's going on? What? How matter of fact, let me start off with the important part. How does it feel to be around people again? Ali, first of all, that's awesome. I'm glad that we're starting to roll back some of these covid restrictions where people are getting vaccinated. It's super awesome. Um I found out that amount to a C. F. S through my coworker Travis chapman. We worked for Brass fame and Glory. He started inviting me to some of these meetings and I heard about Safety Day and it was all about it. So is this the first one? Is this the first one that you've been to? Yes, this is the first one. Oh, this is definitely a different event from than what it has been in the past, that's for sure. So as you look at this and you talk about it and kind of think about it, what did you think about the whole thing when we first started off, you started hearing about what this was going to look like. Because we knew at the time where there was definitely gonna be some mass and different covid restrictions and things along those lines, but now there's been some change where people have been vaccinated and all that kind of stuff. So how comfortable uncomfortable or how do you feel about the whole thing? So I was comfortable from the beginning uh since the pandemic has started being a central employee, we have not really changed other than adding the new protections with social distancing and the face mask. But we've been around each other from the beginning, uh not on a setting like this where it's learning and engaging with non co workers. So this was exciting. Um I knew that there were gonna be protections in place if we weren't vaccinated, but as I said, you know, I've been vaccinated and most people are going that direction. So it's nice, very cool, very cool. So with this being the first experience, what drove you here after Travis told you about it? Why do you say, hey, let's do this? Uh well, I've got my CSP last fall. And um, so immediately, once you get that, you think about getting used and they said, hey, you get sick use for attending. And I said, okay, that's enough that needed, I will be there in person. So tell me a little bit of what would you do with, tell me about the world to safety, How you see it. I know that everybody has a different concept. I almost talked to, I talked about it almost like it's the force or religion or depending on how you want to take a look at it. So what's your concept? How do you look at the, at the big scheme of things? So I originally started in heavy industrial petro kim and the safety culture. There was um like the old view or safety one, as I hear it referred to um since moving to Brownsville. Gory, I've been, I was introduced to Dr Todd Conklin. I might know that guy. I know him. Yeah, I believe you do. Um, a lot of people in safety. No Doctor Conklin, but just listening to his presentation live was for me it was earth shattering thinking about hanging. This is what I want to pursue. I don't like looking for safety and trying to find out how the employee messed up I want to know is what led to that and how can we fix it on the supervisor. And uh so Braxton and glory, the company I work for, they embrace that wholeheartedly. Uh We have dr Todd come talk to us multiple times. I'm reading bob Edwards book uh Currently I might know him to a lot of these people I know I'm talking about so you're very familiar with but I mean even bob Edwards Youtube, not if I can mention that. Got his Youtube where he talks about uh safety even at home and building in the capacities like the gate. He knows his kids are going to not shut the gate. Like a simple thing of adding that spring. I was like oh my God, why don't you ever think about, Isn't it interesting from when you first hear the concepts of what Todd speaks about in particular about how did we not know this was right all along? I mean, that's the first thing that came to my mind, What was coming to yours? Yeah, I was like, as I was learning, learning about it and understanding it more, I said, you know, I knew there was a better way, but why didn't I connect these dots myself? I mean, it seems so simple and he lays it out so well and maybe just that he's good at bringing it to a layman's terms, uh you know, But the fact that now I'm seeing a whole new way of doing my job that makes it enjoyable. Now, used to it wasn't enjoyable because I knew it was us versus them, and you're looking for ways to do better by saying that they're the problem and then reversing that 180 degrees. I can't speak. Well, let's talk about that in particular because that's where it becomes very interesting because think about this for a second. So one day you're actually going into the organization and you're saying, hey, these people are quote unquote the issue. We'll name it that way. And then all of a sudden you do the 1 80 spin and if you have the same workers at the time and you say, hey, listen, I've changed on how I see thing. They probably think you're full of shit. I mean, let's be realistic. Yeah. So I have had to do a lot of back peddling and um, you, uh, eat crow if you will. And I went up and said, hey, I know I've acted or done a certain way. Um, but I've seen a different approach and here's the way we're going to go moving forward. I'm sorry for what I told you before. Uh, and that was wrong of me. You know, here's how we need to approach it and most of time, you know, because it's given us a safety guy. Most of time we don't like to admit we're wrong. You know, if I say it, that's the way it is. Uh, so them to have me come back and apologize to them and admit where I'm lacking. They seem to handle that pretty well. So at what point do they turn around and go, where's the real daniel at? Who is this guy? Yeah, Almost immediately, because they'll, they'll test you for a while. It's not an immediate, they accept it. It's like, well, we'll see how he handles this. Uh, so what got you onto the journey of wanting to be and safety? Because most people say that it normally something catastrophic occurs for you to get into it? What occurred with you to get you into the point that you're into now? So I've always been interested in helping people are, my background is in law enforcement and the M. S. Um Then I got into uh carpentry as an industrial carpenter. Um essentially it's just a scaffold builder for the industrial world. Don't give the secret away, don't give me a job. So as I'm working enslaving in this hot refinery, I see a guy walking by that was just, hey, where's your safety glasses? And I said, you know, I could do that job, I really do that and I should have been breaking my back. So I started pursuing safety, and then I quickly realized that I've only seen a small fraction of what he did. Uh but that's how I got started. So how long have you been doing it overall? 10 years, wow, wow. So you definitely have seen some things? I would imagine that 10 year period, Yes. Um like I said, the majority of my career has been in heavy industrial. Um, my last project was cool government facility out in south Dakota. Um, and then because of family uh, issues that dad being on the road all the time, mom and the kids being back home in Kentucky, we decided to make a change. And uh, I was offered a job in florida. So that's one heck of a change Kentucky to florida. Yes, well, I didn't spend much time in Kentucky. Anyway, I was on the road all the time. The wife and kids state of Kentucky, they came to florida. So how do you like it here? We love it. Uh, the opportunities for my kids, both in school and activities to outside of school. Unmatched. So, let's be realistic. The original thought when you were moving to Orlando is you're going to live at Disney originally. Yes, but then we settled for the Tampa area. So I live in the Tampa area, wow, okay, so that's, I mean it's, we'll say depending on where you're located, would be like 60 to 90 miles, depending on on where you're located. So how do you like it out there in Tampa? That was, I'll tell you when I first moved here, that's why I moved to, but to me it was in Tampa, it was Tampa Bay because because that's what everybody called called it, at least in my neck of the woods in Tampa Bay. So how did you like, how do you like it there? Uh, so we love it. The gulf side is just a different feel. Uh in florida florida is a big state and different cities have their own different culture. So the gulf side is a bit more laid back, a little closer to what we're used to being country vote and um the beaches are nicer. So you, so you like the party scene there. Well it's laid back, but it's kind of party is depending on where you're at. We're not in Tampa, we're Tampa Bay. Okay, so we're close enough that we can go do cool stuff, but then far enough away that we don't get trapped in the boer city. Well, I think it's kind of funny when I'm channel side was coming about and this is going very localized for a moment. They kept on calling keyboard city. Why boring is what they reference it as as competitiveness. But let's talk a little bit about some other things. I have to tell you the person that brought you into my life right now. I mean we had spoken a couple of weeks ago, but right now I had josh cocktail bring you over here and apparently he has a pain point with you in regards that he's saying that you have told Kayla Coddle josh's wife from married to safety that she is better behind the mind than he is and I think he's slightly heartbroken. Yeah, I think I did take him by surprise with that comment. Um so I've been listening to safety a family again, my first interaction was with Todd Conklin, which led me to the J Allen show and from there just blossom into a bunch of different safety podcast. And so I started listening to marry in the safety. Um the content was super relatable. Uh real down to earth, she is by far better behind the mic than he is. Uh but he does bring a lot of levity and humor to the topics and like I said, they both bring it down to a level that the safety professional can understand. Now. I'm going to tell you this because I know that I interviewed them a while ago, but she does have a professional background in broadcasting. So that's that's that's the trickery there. I see now, we're really revealing the secrets, right? So it's kind of interesting. But that particular show I have to tell you, it's one of the most interesting shows on, on the network in regards of concepts. Um, when I take a listen to it, it's it's really giving that approach as a spouse. That's what that's actually tied into somebody who's married into this. It's really what the concept is, but it's interesting just to hear about how their portions are. Do you apply some of the things that they talk about to what you have going on in, in your family life? Um, yes, I see that I am, but prior to actually hearing their podcast, it was just a natural progression uh for me and my family. Uh, just because of the way that I had to do safety before traveling across the United States uh, and missing out on stuff at home. And like I said, even when I was president home, not present mentally because of the things going on with work. So listening to their podcast and how they deal with it as a couple has really helped me refine the way that I'm doing things um, with my own wife and Children. So does your wife take a listen, everyone small? Have you kind of slid this in going, hey, take a listen to this one. I have yet, uh, any time that I talk about work, she immediately shuts me down so I need to try to filter it in with a new shopping extravaganza while we're driving to an outlet mall. I'm going to play it just, well, I'll tell you, my wife has developed this whole pattern that she does that when we're in the car together, she will decide to start reading to me because she knows there's no way that I can get out of it. So if she thinks it's gonna be something I'm not going to pay attention to, she will turn around and start reading for me because there's no way that I can escape it. So maybe that's the way to go. Yeah, the captive audience um, in a vehicle is the best way. Yeah. Normally I'm the one driving, so it's not like I'm gonna jump out or anything along those lines. So tell us, tell some people about some of the things when you first started in this, if you don't mind and how you thought about the concept of safety one when you were doing it and how long was it before you discovered the safety to aspect? Uh So when I first got started, um I only had an OSHA 30 and they said your job is to go out and essentially be a bean counter making sure that they have all their documents in place. Um and that they're wearing their proper PPE. There was no real um identifying and helping mitigate hazards because it's very, very defined in what they needed to follow. Um Any time that an incident would occur, we would go start immediately with, okay, here's the checklist of items they should have had. We know they're missing something out of this checklist. Um And again, you in private conversations with that project team. It was, well this employee messed up. So we need to show the client that we're serious about safety. They need to be sent home regardless of what the investigation lead lead us to the root cause was always the employee. Um And I had real had real heartburn over that because I was essentially messing with someone's livelihood over something that may or may not have been a result of their action. Um So I had worked in that field for many years um and then just through my own investigation, I would then find myself not changing the facts but presenting them in a way that the employee wasn't looking like they're just a major screw up um and trying to protect them while making the workplace safer. Uh It wasn't until I came to work with Brass Fame and Glory and they invited uh Todd to speak to us as the safety group as a whole, that I learned about safety to uh and again, when I heard about it, just uh listening to Dr Conklin talking, seeing his blue line, red line and how workers imagined it was, like I was learning safety all over again, essentially, I was um so I started to deep diving, finding his podcast and connecting to people on linkedin that were hot coaches and reading their books. You know, listening to your podcast, trying to develop uh my understanding of how we can make workplace safer and more enjoyable for the employee, knowing that the interactions with the safety guy isn't going to result in a negative consequence or them losing their job or getting time off, and, you know, applying the fact that taking someone's money is not always the best way to teach them how to do better. Well that's true, that's definitely true in regards that's not going to teach them how to get better disappear in regards of actually taking their money. So how long ago roughly you said when you started, how long ago was that? Just two years, Two years. So you're relatively new to this and so you're still definitely learning a lot about it. So that's that's really cool. So as you have looked at this and trying to translate some of these concepts over to what you're doing, what are we doing wrong? Because I mean not all of it's perfect. Let's be realistic. So my let me rephrase that I shouldn't say wrong, what does, what needs more work to be applicable out in the field? So the biggest thing that I've been getting pushed back on from my supervisors and people that I'm trying to introduce into the human organizational performance is how do we balance between accountability and blame? And I'm reading that involves book right now and I'm sure there's another book that I've not read that kind of will define that a little better, but uh you know, it's always has been status quo to go to blame um but now that we're taking blame away, how do we still balance that with accountability um for those? Because there are the occasional employees that will make a mistake purposefully. I know we don't in the hop world, I've noticed we we don't like to say that people are there to do bad work, but sometimes there there's people there. So um in getting buy in for the people that I'm dealing with and pushing this idea is trying to define better accountability versus blame. How do we not blame but still hold someone accountable? Have you read the book by Brennan sudden called The Practice of Learning? Because I don't remember if we had this as a conversation or not. So this is a book that he's talking about. The concept of learning teams and I mean it breaks it down to a kind of a very linear level. It might be something worth looking at it. Some bread sudden Glennis McCarthy and Brent Robinson. Um Of course as you would imagine they are tied into into our little radio network here of things they do they're actually based out of the U. K. But they took actually Todd's better better questions book and really broke it down into essentially that better questions and really having what they did to come up with. The book concept was they did a learning team on learning teams to be able to, to adapt to how to shoot this book route. So it's a, it's a pretty interesting concept and I think that is, we take a look at this across the board. Is that when you do have the occurrence where you have the team member or employee or potential future customer and I say future customer because they're no longer going to be employed. Um, that does something intentionally. That's what some of the conversations that we don't normally have. And I think that that's a lot of the stuff that we're talking about now, it's interesting because when we take a look at the whole concept of human and organizational performance, it's been around for about 25 years. Give or take 30 depending on who you talk to. But there's not a lot of discussion about that portion. What if somebody does something intentionally wrong? And I think that's where a lot of this conversation is starting to go now, especially with people asking essentially better questions about it. Well Daniel, I'd like to tell you, thank you for coming onto the show today. I really do appreciate having you on the views and opinions expressed on this
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