Safety FM with Jay Allen
Brandon Wiseman
February 14, 2023
In this episode of "The Jay Allen Show," host Jay Allen sits down with Brandon Wiseman, the owner and President of Trucksafe Consulting and a partner with Childress Law. As a transportation attorney, Brandon brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the table, having assisted some of the nation's leading motor carriers in developing and maintaining compliant and cutting-edge safety programs. Expect a thought-provoking discussion as Brandon shares his insights on the challenges and opportunities facing the transportation industry. With his extensive experience representing carriers of all types and sizes before the FMCSA, Brandon offers a unique perspective on the regulatory landscape and how companies can stay ahead of the curve. Brandon's consulting company provides state of the art compliance resources and regulatory training materials, covering a wide range of safety-related topics. Listeners can expect a wealth of information and practical tips for staying compliant and improving safety. Throughout the episode, Brandon's wit and humor will keep the conversation lively and engaging. With his passion for the industry and his commitment to making a difference, Brandon is sure to bring a spicy and dynamic energy to the show. So, gear up for a professional, thought-provoking, witty, and spicy episode of "The Jay Allen Show."
Our AI isn't as good as we want it to be, but here is the transcription:

[00:00:00] spk_0: Begins in Orlando florida and travel steadily to the west beaming across north America and planet Earth into your head, The world of safety never stops and now the safety FM podcast and broadcast with DR J Allen, This show is brought to you by safety. Mhm Well hello and welcome to another episode of the J Allen show. I hope all is good and grand inside of your neck of the woods. I have to tell you sometimes. It's amazing on how the world works out with things going on. A few weeks ago I had the privilege and honor to be at the florida trucking association safety symposium that took place in Orlando florida and while I was hanging out, I got to see the speaker by the name of Brandon Wiseman and boy was I impressed with what he had to say. And as I was sitting there, taking a look around, I said, you know what we need to do, we need to have Brandon on the show and let him talk a little bit about what's going on in the transportation industry. Now, here's the fun part if you've kind of sat around here for a while, somebody brought this up to me and I wasn't even thinking about this. I haven't really formally sat down with anyone in a very long period of time. They said over a year and I can't even do the math of actually sitting down with them and doing a proper interview and let me kind of just make sure that I'm clear here meaning an interview from my point, not that they were interviewing me and I was like wow I didn't realize that it had been that long but I guess that's what it is. So let me tell you a little bit about Brandon. Brandon Wiseman is the owner and president of truck safe, consulting a partner of Children's laws. As a transportation attorney, Brandon has assisted some of the nation's leading motor carriers in developing and maintaining compliant and cutting edge safety programs. He has also represented carriers of all types and sizes before the F. M. C. S. A. On matters such as safety rating upgrades and civil penalty proceedings through his consulting company. Brandon now offers carriers state of the art, compliance resources and regulatory training materials covering a wide range of safety related topics. Brandon is a regular speaker at industry events and contributor to industry publications. Now I will tell you as I got the opportunity to sit here and do this. It was just kind of amazing taking a listen to the way that he views things and how he got involved into this whole aspect of transportation safety. Now as I always like to share with you the things that actually do go on. This is actually interview number two between me and Brandon because, well for some reason the recording of the first time got messed up and miraculously my server in the cloud was able to recover it but we had already recorded another session by the time that that did take place. So this is an interview number two, I'll start off by talking about that a little bit as we go, but sit back, take a listen to what Brandon Wiseman has to say because I think you're gonna enjoy it here on the J allen show on safety FM is streaming now on safety FM dot live, Okay, so Brandon, um I'm one of those people that loves to be honest with everybody who's taking a listen to what the hell is going on and what we're doing and um if I'm, if I have to pull the curtain back a little bit, this is round two, we've done this before, except that there is no proof that we will ever be able to use at least there's just one little small clip, so I appreciate you coming back for another round that only I got to hear. So as you and I have already previously discussed, but the people that have not heard this will get to hear today is that um well I got to see you um do your thing in the florida transportation, what was it florida Trans, what is trucking? I'm gonna, I'm gonna mess that up florida trucking association, I almost messed it up and said transportation florida trucking association, I want to say about it week ago, give or take. Yeah, there was a safety summit aspect of it, you came out and we're doing a presentation about truck safety and I have to tell you it's one of those things that I tend to love. So I looked into what you were doing in the world of trucking and then I saw found your company of truck safe consulting and I said hey we have to have you on. So can you tell us about what you do? Yeah sure. So um I'm a transportation lawyer um don't hold that against me. Uh So I've been practicing law in this niche area of D. O. T. Safety regulations, believe it or not for about 15 years now was previously at a large law firm in Indianapolis, uh largest transportation specific firm in the country. And my job there was to work with primarily the largest motor carriers in the country on their D. O. T. Safety programs there, helping them to understand their regulatory obligations, helping them when they got you know, sideways with the F. M. C. S. A helping them develop policies, driver policies, handbooks, that type of stuff, appealing civil penalties when they inevitably got themselves in trouble. And so did that for many years. Got a lot of good experience doing that. Um And then in 2021 broke off on my own uh started truck safe, consulting. My goal for truck safe was to build out online compliance courses for safety managers, owners of small trucking companies. Those types of folks. I just never felt like there was a great resource for training for those types of folks on how to understand the regulations, you know, there's certainly lots of training resources out there for drivers, but I never found anything that I was all that excited about when it came to regulatory training for trucking companies and their safety managers. So I spent the first six months or so of 20, building out those courses and now we offer those through truck safe. But then got drug back into the legal world um by my colleague Jared Childress, he started his own small law firm called Children's Law. So now we got both companies, we run both companies, we do the legal, the D. O. T. Compliance legal work on the law firm side of things and then we do a lot of D. O. T. Compliance content and courses and youtube videos and that type of stuff on the truck safe side. So let's talk about that because I want to have a good understanding at what point in your life do you wake up and go, I think I want to get into transportation because I'll tell you when I was a kid, transportation wasn't a thing for me? I knew I wanted to be on the radio, but that was many, many, many moons ago and I did everything except that before I actually got into it, what were you thinking about doing as you were growing up? Uh not this. Um no, so I kind of grew up in the industry. My dad was um still is a partner at that law firm that I was at previously and his area was D. O. T. Safety and compliance before he went to law school. He worked at a trucking company as a safety director. And so it kind of grew up in that world um always had it kind of in the back of my mind that maybe I would do something like that but never really banked on it. I mean I what I enjoyed doing before I went to law school, I owned a video production company and um that's serving me well now because we do a lot of video content and stuff like that. But that was initially my plan was to do something like that, graphic design, video production. But then um I quickly learned that that that could be a rough career. Um Not a lot of money in it unless you you're great at it, which I'm okay at it. But in any, in any event uh this my sense has got the best of me and I decided I was going to go to law school. Um and so went to law school. Still at that point wasn't quite sure where I was going to land in the legal profession. Um but there was an opportunity for me at that firm where my dad worked, there was a clerkship available to me during law school and so I went and did that and uh, enjoyed the work that I did there. Um, never wanted to be a litigator, never wanted to be in the courtroom. Uh, and so the opportunity that I found at that firm was right for me, it was more on the regulatory compliance side of things. Um, and so I took that. So, I mean, this is where it gets kind of interesting because you say that you're going into video production, then you change it where you're going to become a lawyer because you're inspired by the things that your dad's doing, but you don't want to litigate. And I mean, that's, that's kind of a hard one. I mean, do you say this while you're in law school, you're telling people, hey, I'm gonna be a lawyer, but I'm not gonna be a litigation lawyer. Do people started do people start asking right away are you gonna be an ambulance chaser? Because I mean, that's what comes, I mean, let's just be realistic. That's what comes to mind. A lot of people have that perception and it's probably deserved about the profession. But I knew early on just from watching my dad that that wasn't the only path. And I knew that that was the path. I didn't want to be on. And so, you know, a lot of my friends in law school wanted to be litigators, not necessarily ambulance chasers, but they wanted to be in the courtroom. You gotta have a certain personality for that And it was just never my personality and more introverted? And uh, and so I I just knew that I preferred. Um, and even in high school and stuff like that in college, certainly I I enjoyed writing, I enjoyed reading and I felt like I was a pretty good writer and you really got to be a good writer to be on that side of the law where you are writing memos and your, your counseling clients on, you know, understanding the regulations stuff like that. So I knew early on that's what I wanted to do. And that's the position I maintained throughout law school, I took classes that I knew would push me towards that avenue. And so that's how I ended up there. So you know that I'm gonna have a hard time believing that you're an introvert. I mean, I've seen you on a stage in front of a couple 100 people. You're doing your po, you're doing your podcast, you're doing your live, your live broadcast. We'll call it, I call it a video. Video cast is really what it boils down to. But that's not very introverted stuff. That's extroverted stuff. So at what point does this machine turn on in your brain that you're able to power forward because a lot of people say that if they're introverted, I can't stand in front of a group of people? I can't do the things that you're doing. So how is this, how is this able to change for you? I would be lying if I said it was, I'm comfortable now that I'm doing. I mean I'm more comfortable than I was, but I still don't consider myself comfortable when I'm in that situation. So, you know, I think what what has gotten me to the point where I'm at now, like you said, I do a lot of speech, I do a lot of public speaking that was never in the cards for me, I didn't think. Um but what I found is that experience really is the thing that drives you to be able to push through that fear because You know, I feel like over having done worked in the D. O. T. regulations now and and advising clients on that topic specifically for about 15 years, I finally feel like I'm at a point where I've got enough experience in that area, I know enough about that topic to feel somewhat comfort comfortable when I go out and talk about it publicly, whether it be in front of in front of others or through our podcast or whatever. I feel like I have enough experience to know that I that I understand what I'm talking about and to feel like I have something to add to that conversation. So when you get the first invite where somebody contacts you and says you have a lot of knowledge based on this and we want you to do a public speaking of it and I know this is kind of pulling the curtain behind. I mean for people to see what's exactly going on, what's going through your mind at the time. I was I was not happy to do it. I was scared to death to do it. Um, I'll be honest, I mean that was early on in my legal career at the other firm when I got those opportunities just because There's not a lot of attorneys that focus in this area, uh, in the country. And so, but there's a lot of folks that are interested in the topic, there's 700,000 plus regulated motor carriers in the United States. And they all have to understand this world. And uh, and so there's probably a handful of us in the country that speak on this topic. And so I knew it was coming. I saw my dad do a lot of speeches on, on those topics and it came early in my career and I was, I was petrified to do it. Um, but you know, I, I had experience doing it in law school. You, that's part of the deal with law school, you take classes on, on that type of thing. And uh, and so I just pushed through it, made myself do it and um, got through it and then yeah, just practice makes perfect. So as you know, people automatically assume when you're interacting with a lawyer, you're gonna get the person in a suit, you're gonna get them in this high rise building and so on. And I don't mean this to be disrespectful. So please understand that if I was to approach you and you told me that you were a lawyer, I would have a lot of doubts. I mean, let's just be realistic until you started talking, then it becomes a different story because that's not what I'm expecting. I've succeeded in my efforts here to, uh, completely dispel that notion of burned all my suits. Uh, yeah, I, I, um, you know, so when I started truck safe, I was, I was hell bent on getting out of the legal profession altogether. I didn't want to do that anymore. I, all I wanted to do was, uh, educate folks on regulatory topics and I could do that through a consulting company. I don't have to be a lawyer to do that. Um, and so, and I knew that what we were lacking in the industry was good quality content. You know, I'm a consumer of that type of content. And I've, I've always enjoyed, you know, the behind the scenes part of that, and what I've observed over the last year is that the way we deliver content. And, and even, uh, you know, in the education realm has drastically changed over the last few years and people expect a certain quality of content when they're watching these videos nowadays. And I it just didn't exist um, in this industry, from what I could tell, and from my perspective, and what I didn't want to do is get in front of a camera in a suit and and be stuffy when it comes to delivering the content, that's just not what you see, that's not what's enticing to you, that's that's not the type of content you're here for. And so I wanted to do it differently and so I knew to do it differently. I had to, um, I had to look a certain way and I had to, I had more importantly, I had to deliver the content in a different way than people are used to when they're hearing lawyers talk. And so I spent a lot of time developing that skill and I think I I I think I do okay doing it. And so I would say you do more than okay, I at least in my opinion, and I get to interact with a whole bunch of, well say, safety professionals, um, that I get to see, do all kinds of different things, but your approach is so unique that I will tell you, I was sitting in that in that crowd of a couple of 100 I almost felt that you were talking to anyone from a novice to a senior level in regard to the things that you were expressing, and that's not, that's not something that somebody learns that's just not something that you can learn overnight. How did you develop that skill and re able to really interact with people where they think that you're doing the one on one approach with them, even though they're in a crowd, it comes from years of talking directly to trucking companies and to the safety folks of those trucking companies, it does them little good and I'm not serving as a good lawyer if I'm talking over their heads and in ways that doesn't make sense to them. It has to be practical, it has to, my advice to them has to be able to be put into motion. It has to be practical to their fleet. And so, uh, if, if you can't talk to folks in a way where the topics you're talking about makes sense to them, then they're just not going to come back to you for advice because it was, it was useless, they paid a lot of money for it and it ultimately didn't serve them well. So I learned early on from, from um, a lot of my mentors at the firm over the years of how to um, really break these, what can be complex topics down into their basic components and, and two more importantly, communicate them in ways that, that the motor carriers that I'm talking with can make practical use of them. And so it's just honing that skill over the years and uh, and now when I go out and speak publicly, I I just follow that same formula. It does nobody any good for me to talk about, you know, these lofty legal issues that all you, all you want is information that that um, is practical to your fleet. So that's kind of been my approach. So at the time that you're deciding to start doing this and now, you know, that you've honed this skill to be able to communicate with people, you're able to do these things that other people can't do in form of communication. And it makes it pretty interesting on how you do it. How are people looking at you when you start getting into the pandemic and you say, I think now it's time number one to branch out on my own and start my own company. And number two, you're saying to some extent you're not saying it 100% but you're saying I'm leaving the legal career behind and I'm focusing mostly on just the trucking industry as consulting nothing to do with law. To some extent we can argue that part, of course, what are your clothes, niche friends telling you at this time? Um, I have a very small group of close friends and they all knew that this is ultimately what I wanted to do. And so they were all very supportive and my wife included the biggest supporter for me. Uh, and so that was good. Um it took a long time to get to that place. I mean, I had been thinking about this for years, um, but I'm glad that I waited until that time to do it because had I not gained the experience of working at the larger law firm and working with some of the nation's largest carriers, I don't feel like I would have been in a position to be able to, to to speak on these issues. You know, one of the things that you look for when you're, when you're looking for counsel on these topics is experience. And, and, and so if I didn't have that and I just wouldn't have felt qualified to do it. So I felt like after 12 years at the firm, um, that that I had gotten to a place where I felt like I was in a position to be able to do that number one. And so that was a big motivating factor. And then the other thing was covid, like you mentioned, you know, I was working from home at that point and had gotten used to it and had this nice office here in my house and had a place to kind of launch from. And so it just felt like the right time for all of those reasons when you turn around and you tell your wife, I think it's time. And if you don't mind me mentioning it in the previous interview that nobody will ever get to hear because I messed it up. Um, you had said that you had moved during that time frame, you had just moved into a house. So you're doing both of these things at once and they say some of the biggest transitions in in life is starting a new job, having a kid moving into a new house, you're doing two out of the three, It sounds like how is the house, the interaction during that time, and I had a two year old at the time, so oh Lord, it was scary. I'm not gonna lie, it was I I toiled over it for for literally months and and worried about it and um and finally, it just wasn't healthy anymore for me to worry that much about it and and my wife to to give her the credit. She was, she was ready for me to do it before I was I was worried about the finances of it and that type of stuff, but at some point it just becomes unhealthy to um to find yourself in that position of worrying that much about it. So I just, I I I decided that I gotta I gotta pull the court at some point and just do it and uh and have some faith and and uh and what will happen and knock on wood, luckily everything turned out. Well, I'm I don't I'm not under any um under any belief that that's necessarily the case for everybody that that takes that leap of faith. Um I'm not under that delusion, but, and I know it doesn't always work out, but I had faith that it would work out my situation and it did. So you're six months in, you're doing your thing. You get the phone call from Jared Jared says, hey, um, I'm thinking about doing my own stuff. I want you to be involved. What are you thinking now? You already got company number one that you're running And now all of a sudden there's an offer of, here's my second startup. We're talking what less than a year? How does, how does this work for? You Jared actually left before I did. So he started, so I was aware of Jared and what he was doing before I started truck safe. And so we were in communication even when I was spending those six months developing the courses for trucks safe and all along that time, he was, he was convincing me um to eventually come over and work with him as well on the legal side of things. And you know, he broke me down. Um and he had good points too. It's like, you know, as I said earlier, it's important when you're in this position of, of speaking from authority, you gotta, if you can't show that you have some unique uh, unique thing to add to the conversation then why does anybody listen to you? And so I I can only rest on my laurels for some for some time. Um And so he made a good point that keep your law license. Um If nothing else it will at least get you in some doors that you may not have gotten in. Otherwise if if you were just doing this as a as a safety consultant that's not to put down safety consultant. I know a lot of great safety consultants in the country um But adding the legal the law license to it and that aspect of it really adds something to the equation that I think very few of us in the country have to add. So you referenced that. What doors do you feel that it's open for you right now by having your your we'll call it your law license in regards of getting certain things because let's be realistic there are courses that are out there that train people to be safety consultants and it's a three day certification course and all of a sudden you're a consultant to our to some people. So how does this how does how does the law license work for you in regards to opening doors that most people would not get open? The big the big one is so safety consultants in this space. A lot of them do mock D. O. T. Audits for example they'll go in and and their clients will hire them to come in and look at their records and issue a report of their findings from from that audit and where they think the motor carrier has gone wrong and I'm fine with that generally speaking. But the benefit, the big benefit of having lawyers do that over just safety consultants is that you get the benefit of the attorney client privilege when you have a lawyer do those types of things rather than a non lawyer. And so what that means practically is when I when we come in and do our mock D. O. T. Audits through our law firm and we tell you of everything that you're doing wrong and we put that in a written report for you to to chew on and to fix those issues. Hopefully that report is not gonna be generally discoverable in litigation. God forbid you get involved in a bad accident after that. Uh you know if that were just a safety consultants report, you better understand that that report is going to be shown to the jury and that subsequent litigation and it's gonna be argued that hey you knew all of these problems areas that you had, why didn't you do anything to fix them? The big, the big benefit of having lawyers do that is that report is protected and it's not gonna be discoverable in litigation to be used against you. So that's one that's probably the primary area where we separate ourselves from traditional safety consultants. Oh I love it. I have to tell you. I love but I think it works great exactly how you have it. So when somebody contacts you and says, hey, I'm interested in getting your services. How much paperwork are we talking then? Because I would imagine with some of the protections that are in place, what are we talking in regards of how much paperwork do they have to sit through? Not a ton. I mean, you know, we have in terms of engaging law firm, we just have a simple engagement letter that kind of lays out the issues. You know, certainly we have professional rules that govern the legal profession that make sure that we don't, you know, for example, engage in any, you know, conflict, we can't represent you if we have a conflict of interest that would prevent us from discharging our duties to you as a client. So there are, there are certainly lots of rules that go into Our ability to represent you or not. But in terms of the paperwork, not a whole lot to it. Good. That's, that's the best thing I like when I hear that, I don't have a lot of paperwork to work on. So let's talk about this a little bit because if people tend to look you up online, they're gonna find out automatically that you're in Indiana. Do you cover all 50 states? We do. In fact, we have very few clients in indiana. Most of our clients are throughout the United States and you know, we, we have the benefit in, in our niche of the industry, of the legal profession of working primarily with motor carriers who are operating in interstate commerce and are subject to federal law. So in other words, a lot of attorneys, um, in various areas of the law are confined to a particular state because there are nuances to that state's laws on whatever topic that they're dealing with, whether it be, you know, property issues or trusts in the States, it's all pretty local in nature. Whereas our niche of the legal profession is very rarely local in nature. It is interstate in nature. We're dealing with federal laws that apply usually the same across the country, no matter where your clients are based. And so that's, that's literally the only area of the law that we deal with are those federal rules. Uh, and occasionally there are some state distinctions, but more often than not, we're dealing with federal rules for interstate carriers. And so most of our clients are, are located throughout the United States, not just indiana. So when you have somebody come up to you and say, oh, well, I would love to use your services, but I've heard that you're mostly federal, but I'm only in trust state, What would you tell them? Yeah, so we advise those clients on occasion. It doesn't happen all that often. But um, you know, one of the main things that we do at the, at our firm is to make sure we have a pulse on where the state motor carrier safety regulations tend to deviate from the federal rules because if I have a motor carrier that comes to me that's usually subject to the federal rules but they have some unique move where they are going to be operating intra state in texas for example, I need to know that texas texas has more lenient rules on on the motor care safety regulation front than the federal rules. And so we keep track of what the states are doing uh in that regard and we can advise generally on that. But certainly when they get involved in some kind of uh traffic tickets, traffic tickets are the perfect example, if you've got a texas driver that gets cited for a violation of texas law, it's not gonna be me or or Jared that comes in and helps you with that. You're gonna need to get local council to help you with that that particular issue. But in terms of kind of generally advising on the distinctions between texas motor care safety regulations and the federal rules, that's something we do pretty regularly. So let me ask that question then because you did say that you would advise them to actually have local council if somebody wants to interact with you but they're saying can you do everything online in regards of auditing or actually going through the whole sequence with them. Is that something that's possible to do? Yeah, we do. So I mentioned mock bot audits. That's a pretty common thing we do and D. O. T. Does this too frankly where you know historically these have been pretty um pretty it's been necessary to do them on site because you go in you look at the carrier's records, you're pulling files from the filing cabinet and stuff like that. But more and more we're seeing these be done by the D. O. T. Off. They're called off site audits where they are essentially desk audits. Um They send you a list of documents that they want to see and you have to upload them and if you can't upload them electronically then you're gonna be written up for violations. So we're moving to that world. And so we at the firm have likewise moved to that as well where you know sometimes the carrier wants us to come in and and do an audit and we certainly do that. But um we also do those off site audits where uh they transmit documents to us and we take a look at them. So let's talk a little bit about some of the things that you've built because you referenced earlier that you've built out some structure in regards where people can take classes online. And we did also talk previously because I get to reference that about the community of practice that you've built. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah in terms of our our content and stuff that we do is that we're right that in the, you said that there was like a community that you could get into. So yeah, the truck safe compliance network. So one of the early ideas I had with truck safe was, um, what if not only I have this, all of this content that I've developed, but there are certain situations that are gonna be unique to a particular motor carrier that I haven't dealt with in one of the hundreds of Youtube videos or there are even our courses where do they go when they have questions? Um, maybe they come to me, maybe they can't afford to hire a lawyer, help them with that stuff. So is there a place for them to go to ask those questions And you know, maybe that, you know, local trucking Association is where you go to ask those questions. But I didn't, I wasn't aware of any um, you know, bigger community for the trucking industry where um, you know, safety managers and owners of small trucking companies could gather together and ask those types of questions and learn from one another. And so I, I decided I wanted to create that space on my own. And so we created the truck safe compliance network, which is uh, it's essentially a social network for safety folks, risk advisors, insurance folks, everybody that's involved either directly or tangentially in D. O. T. Safety and compliance for fleets. It's a place for them to get in there? It's a forum? They, we have an iphone app, android app where they can join it for free and they can get in there, they can post questions and get answers from other folks who have may have dealt with that same issue. And then it's also a place for us to deliver our content. So we do, for example, monthly webinars for our network members on all kinds of topics. Hours of service problems, driver qualification. Um, so it's really just a space to get more content out there that can hopefully make some difference and, and you know, making our highways a little bit more safe. So you know, automatically when you say the word membership, someone's gonna go out there and go, okay, you said membership, What's the cost associated and becoming a member, no cost whatsoever. It is free to join. Free to access all of the content. Uh, maybe someday I will figure out a way to monetize it. But no, it's a, it's free to join. I want, I want to get that content out there. I want to make that space available, um, to, to, um, to make our roads safer and you know, the benefit we get out of it is. Maybe we talk about something in one of those webinars that really sparks interest from a particular fleet and then they come to me with questions. Uh, and I'm fine with that, that type of model. So right now free to join. So you should do it well, isn't it interesting when you create something on your own and somebody tries to replicate it on, you know, and how much love there Really trying to show you, Have you seen anything along those lines in regard to this? I'm not gonna mention anything, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't mention any names with my first name being repeated several times, but we'll leave, we'll leave it outside of there. But now, so here, here's the thing as you go through this process, what things have you ran into that? You're amazed that people are not aware of that has changed within the law structure, let's say over the last couple of years, I would say the biggest issue that folks have trouble with that seems, that seems to be a big issue for them are hours of service problems. And particularly when you start to get into things like personal conveyance, which is what I consider probably the biggest gray area in the federal Medicare safety regulations that we're dealing with now, um, just because it's not well defined in the regulations. In fact, it's not defined at all. And so you're relying on kind of guidance that the FMCSA has put out over the years. And so, um, that's causing a lot of problems for a lot of fleets. They're having elevated hours of service, um, safety metrics and that's leading to them being audited and then those problems can manifest themselves in the audits and then they get slapped on the wrist, um, for those issues. So I would say our service is a big topic of discussion in the fleet compliance network. It's one that we spend a lot of time putting a lot of content out there on, um, you know, just by way of example, our Youtube channel. Um, this wasn't my intention, but it's, it's gotten a lot of traction with truck drivers themselves. My audience has always been safety managers and folks that are managing the compliance program of trucking companies. But our Youtube channel, I would say most of our 5000 subscribers that we have now are truck drivers who are interested in learning these types of topics because they impact them directly. You know, what, what is the split sleeper Berth provision of the federal rules. Um, you know, obviously they have an interest in understanding that stuff just as much as the trucking company. Uh, they're the ones that are charged with complying with those rules. And so it's been fun to watch that kind of take off with, with the truck driving community. It's always amazing to see on who your audience ends up being. Once you start putting the information out there. Yeah. Because then then you find yourself having to kind of tailor the content from actually is rather than the one that you wanted to be right. That's what we've come to to recognize here in regards of, hey, we had this original idea of what we thought it was gonna look like, but it didn't end up working out that way. Yeah. And I'm not a truck driver. I don't have a CDL or anything. So who am I to tell a truck driver how to safely drive a truck. So I don't ever, I don't ever pretend like I'm I'm any authority over how to safely drive a truck. Those are the driver. Those are the ones that are doing it day in and day out. What I think I have to offer to them is that kind of practical, no nonsense view of the regulations of the regulatory scheme in which they operate? Well, you do bring up a good point because there are a lot of safety managers that are out there and I'm not talking about consultants, I'm talking about safety managers within the industry themselves that sometimes do not have C. D. S. So when you go into a location, you know that every once in a while you have somebody who wants to be, we'll call it the wise guy just to kind of keep it clean to be the wise guy in regards to saying, well you don't have a CDL, so why should I listen to you? So how do you normally handle these things? That's probably 80% of the comments we have on our, on our youtube channel or things like um, you know, why, why why don't we make the F. M. C. S. A. Administrator be a CDL holder, why can't we make that be the case? And you know, I see that argument on the one side of things, but on the other side of things, you know, I also see, don't we really want somebody in that position who has um also has some experience either being a lawyer or somebody who's making the laws. Um, because you know, certainly they're going to be able to consult with folks that hold CD Ls when they come up with these rules. But don't we want somebody who's competent and actually making laws serving in that position because that's their job is to not drive, their job is to craft laws that work well for the industry understanding that they're gonna have to um, you know, consult with folks who are living in that world day in and day out. That's just, that's how we build our legal system in the United States. We don't expect everyone in a position of power to to be um, the type of person that they are, are charged with regulating. Sure, it seems like that may be something that we want in the system, but at the same time it's I think it's short sighted to look at it that way. So I definitely agree with that. So if people want to find out more information about you and what you have going on work and they find out exactly truck safe dot com is where you find most of our information we like like jay said we got a lot of got a lot of stakes in the fire. We do our podcast, we do our fleet compliance network, we've got an upcoming in person conference called our fleet compliance boot camp, it's going to be in Indianapolis um, here pretty soon. But all that information is on truck safe dot com and then also follow us on social media. We post a lot of content on our linkedin page on our facebook page on our twitter. So that's where you'll find us. Well Brandon, I really do appreciate you coming on to the show today and thank you for round two because I know that you know I screwed up round one, there is no doubt about that, I really do appreciate it. Well listen, I have to tell you, I hope you enjoyed this interview as much as I did. It's not very often that I sit back and go, wow, this dude has blown me away in regards of the information that he has provided and I am just amazed and impressed with the amount of information and detail that Brandon Wiseman, it was able to cover a lot of the information during this during this interview because that's really what boils down to. So if you want to you can go hang out, take a look at what he has going on a truck safe consulting. That's always great. And listen, I'll put some some links here inside of the description of the episode. If you want to take a look at what's going on, thank you for always being the best part of safety FM And that is the listener. Believe me, we'll be back with another episode of the J Allen show before too long. And let's see, let's see what ends up happening with Brandon. I'm kind of intrigued on where his career will take him. I'll see you next time I've been your safety manager and host, jay Allen. See you the J Allen show