Safety FM with Jay Allen
Jason A. Maldonado
February 25, 2020
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay talks with Jason A. Maldonado, from Relentless Safety, founding member of The Safety Justice League, and author of A Practical Guide To The Safety Profession. Listen to Jason's spin on how he wants to make safety fun! Enjoy it today on The Jay Allen Show.
this show is brought to you by safety Safety FM dot Life Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the J. Allen Show. We're coming to you live from the safety FM studios in Orlando, Florida This is the show that you have asked for, ladies and gentlemen, so we will continue to bring it to you in the format that you're asking for if you are taking a listen to us Right now, we are streaming live on safety FM dot com and on safety FM Doubt live. And if you do, take a listen to some of our other shows.  We have been doing some video streaming from time to time, but we are not doing that with this episode here today. But today I am doing an interview with the person who has been requested to be on the show by you, the listener. So today I have the privilege of speaking to the author of a practical guy to safety profession. The relentless pursuit. The author also has a website by the name of relentless safety dot com, and if you're into snakebites, at least the video you'll know exactly who I'm speaking of and if you're not aware, which I'm sure you already are.  He is also a founding member of the safety Justice League. Today I have the honor and the privilege of speaking to Jason Maldonado. Jason, welcome to the show. Were you already or where you've been on different shows? So I'm not gonna bore you with some of the same questions that I'm not gonna ask about Creepy Carl or anything to that extent cos so much fun to talk way can. But that's all right. I just when I really start talking to people, I always look at it and I g o there's so many things where we can start and most people want to start off on.  How did the career start? I really want to start off with a book. Okay, really? Where? I would like to start off with you. And how did the book come about? Did the publisher contact you looking for something, or were you actually trying to outsource this? So I think it's it was a kind of a combination of three things. It was it was timing. It was the right message. And hopefully that's written pretty well and and then it was a little bit of who I knew. But no, I The way the book came about was actually kind of funny.  I was sent on my dad's porch. Might. My dad lives about three hours for me in Albuquerque. And so we're having some beers one Friday night and just reminiscing about stuff. And I was telling him these stories about my mentor from when I first got into construction after I got out of the Air Force. So I was working construction safety, And, uh, this guy, Nick had passed away in 2016. So I just kind of reminiscing the stories a little bit. And I stopped at one point, Said he had I'm sorry.  I know I told you these stories a bunch of times. You know, I need to bore you with it or something like that. And my dad liked me because, no, these air, these great stories, you need to write them down. I said, Yeah, you're right, because no, that's you need to write him down. You've been saying you wanted to be a writer since you were, like, seven. And you're not getting younger. So you know what I'm going to see you in two weeks. And I would expect you should have about two chapters done by then.  No pressure and no, you have no pressure at all. So I sat down and just started. I had no idea what I was going to do. So I got a notebook of peace paper out and just started writing down ideas for, you know, different stories from throughout my career. I'd say about 80% of them made it to the book. Um, and then I tried to weave them together into something that was that was usable on it started out kind of is, ah, a rant about all the things that I was that I've struggled with throughout my career and, you know, the wastefulness that sometimes goes into the safety profession.  And then I looked at that after a chapter two and said, You know, this isn't really this isn't gonna be a beneficial things. What can I add? Where can it put in here That's gonna be valuable to somebody That's, you know, either struggling in the same position that I was at those points or completing you to the field. So that's kind of where it came from. So when you started off with this, had you already started relating to safety or was Okay, so was it your Is this the dual love project?  Because this is where it's really going to get interesting. Yeah. No, I had no idea. So I wrote the book. I just It was like this mad, feverish dash I had all these has some stuff going on, health wise. So it was just totally irrational thought, and I'm fine now, but I was sitting there every night Isn't right this thing to, like, midnight. Like I'm gonna die if I don't write this book. And I said I was sort of my motivation was to get it out, and, uh and I wrote it.  I mean, I I do not write as fast anymore. I don't think I could keep up that pace. I wrote it in, like, 2. 5 months and and then I had a book, and I'm sitting there with this thing and I thought it was pretty good. I shopped it out to a couple people, a couple professionals that I'm that I respect and asked him to proof, Read it for me. And they all came back, you know, just overwhelmingly positive with their feedback. And then I had no idea what to do with it.  So I started reaching out to people that I've been connected with on LinkedIn or through other social media and just asking them what they did. A couple of more. I reached out to Ty Conklin, reset toe Philip Duke on, and I knew, you know, they have both published books, and it was actually tired that that kind of pushed me in the direction of Taylor and Francis, which is seriously press. They didn't give me a leg up or anything. You just said, you know? You know, they asked me to do these books and, um, you know, I think they have, ah, an application on their website where you can do your proposal and, you know, go from there.  So I did it, and it got accepted. And, uh, you know, like, it was just this big world world wind of stuff that happened within just a few months. So between that, So you got the book. You're building your your company or your website. How everyone or combination is really what it is and you're ill. And you still are able to pull this off in a little over two months. Yeah, about the three. And then in Trickled into waiting for the the proposal to come through it.  I think it ended up being about April. So from October to April of, ah, October of 2018 to April last year, that's that's pretty much when it all happened in the website and then following on after that with the the business aspect of it really came. You know, I knew that I needed to get my name out, and I kind of wanted to build a brand to build a reputation. So just started jotting things down on the blogged in sort of similar fashion as the books written so that people could get a taste of how I do it and started putting those things out.  And that was pretty incredible, too. Is this the response that I've gotten? I was expecting to be, you know, blackballed from the safety community. Oh, my heresy. But you know, and it helped e think along the way. I sort of honed in on what my voice is and what I enjoy doing. I like making people laugh, But then I like toe kind of stick you with a message at the end and make you think eso that's tended to work better than the the angry rants, for sure.  So how does this process work then with the book? So you're done in April. You're with the shopping of the book around. All of a sudden they accept it, but it doesn't get released until form what I confined August 30th giver take of 2019. So are you in a rewriting process during the time or what's happening? No. The only thing that that was rewritten and I will say they did a fantastic job just polishing it up and making it even better than than I could have imagined. So they went through an editing process.  Professional auditing process, you know, check for grammar and all the usual stuff. They didn't change much. We changed a couple titles of chapters because there was no copyright issues and stuff like that. But thing only thing that was actually cut and I left it in there on purpose was there was there was one F bomb that I left in there just to test the waters where they got that Jay Allen show. Have you learned about a human and organisational performance and you wanted more? Or how is your chance?  Fisher Improvement Technologies is conducting an advanced H. O P. Practitioner workshop. Now is your opportunity to learn these advanced top techniques in this two day workshop that is designed to give leaders the ability to understand and manage integrations of advanced air reduction and organizations provided with multiple experiential learning opportunities to ensure they could use the information in their day to day interactions. Firm or information? What you arrow hp dot com that is e r o hp dot com and click on the link that says Open enrollment way are back on the J. Allen Show on Safety FM. So when you say title changes was this stuff that people would automatically recognize that was copyrighted material in regards of the title of the chapter?  Yes. Yeah, that's what it was. So no ghost writer and limited editing. This sounds really good stuff. Then you know what? No ghost writer. It was all me. Um, like I said, I kind of gave it out. I get out to three people that I really trust. And they gave me some feedback, you know, work directions here and there. It was kind of interesting. One of them was in Australia, so we had a little bit of a language difference. Um, so some of his suggestions, I kind of cock my head sideways to and I'm sure he read some of my my comparisons and metaphors and stuff and thought they were a little silly, but no, I mean, it was just it was a crazy I don't think my experience was normal by any stretch of anybody's Well, I mean, it's interesting because when I pull up information about the book, it's everywhere and it's reviewed in a lot of places.  And then you did something that I consider gutsy in the in the book world where you decided to move forward and do, ah, hardcover of the book. Yeah, and that's kind of a brave movie. Is that saying Hey, we're cementing here moving forward with the book because now you're talking about OK, it's we're not talking about something. You're just somebody that order off Amazon. They're gonna print it automatically and then also, it's gonna come to them. You're doing the hard cover now. Was this something that they discussed with you, Meaning the publisher, or was this kind of a plan starting off?  No, that was That was sort of the deal. So it's a part of their line called Seriously focus. Um, and the advantages of it is that it's fast, relatively faster print, you know, it did take from April to September for the hardcover, but it only it's only available in her cover in Digital. So there is no, uh, stuff covered, so there's no in between is what you're saying. There's no in between, uh, and then that's just it's ah, it's their their marketing tools. It's one of the these very select Siri's that air supposed to be relevant and timely and topical, and they've had good success with it.  So I'm happy. I mean, in the book turned out just awesome. So, um, well, I would hope so. You put a lot of time and into it when you were actually on the accidental safety pro with a Woodville. James, you had a discussion that you were planning on potentially a second book. Have you already started that process. I have, um, and very much in the same vein as well. Actually, I take it back, it's gonna be so. The first book was clearly, you know, aimed toward people in the safety profession.  And I make the disclaimer in there that, you know, anybody in management can read this and get some benefit from it. At least I think so on and I've had a lot of positive feedback in that regard, too. So this one's the 1st 1 was always meant to be geared towards safety professionals. The 2nd 1 is gonna be geared toward, you know, executives and leadership. It's probably gonna be a coloring. So you're you're taking the Jimmy Kimmel approach to some extent. Then it's right. So the 2nd 1 is really you know how if I'm an executive or leader, you know how How do I lied my organization toward a good safety culture against, you know, a good safety program, because everything that most of those people dio is based on something that somebody like me told them.  And that's a lot of faith. But there's also a lot of I would say, misinformation in the career field. You know, we still do a lot of things that just don't make a lot of sense. So I want to bring some of the practicality from the first book and translate that into, you know, here's it sort of leadership with the safety spin on it. Eso you know, good, good leadership, good management, backed up by safety stories. And that's that's the goal for the 2nd 1 And I actually have and haven't started on this one, but actually have plans for the 3rd 1 which will be geared toward, you know, the workers, the people in the field of people in the production floor, the people that are actually doing the work with tools, you know, how can they contribute?  And I think with those three, three things all tied together in Siris, I think that'll be a really nice little package that an organization could benefit a lot from very need. S o Are you going to do anything different with the second book in regards of how it's actually being dine are going to do that one on paper or let's be part of the focus. Syriza's well, I'm still up in the air with that. It may be paperback. Not, um, I I am going to structure it a little bit differently.  It's still gonna be told through stories and, um, and anecdotes and things that you know, just crazy things that you can't make up, which is really the basis of the story. One of my big goals from the from the get go is to make it something that people want to read. You know, there's tons of great safety books out there that are just I'll come on, savor dry. They're extremely dry, like reading. Okay, don't be shy. Come on. No, there. So that was the goal is to make it so make it enjoyable.  Like when you get to the and I had a guy come up to me the other day that had Hey, he's been giving me feedback as he reads the book and, you know, a couple times he's come up because I don't really know. I I don't I don't agree with you on this point. Like Great, that's let's talk about it. That was the whole point. But he got to the end of it, and I won't give it away. But he gets to the end and he came into my office and because I hate they see this gives people encouragement on why they need to get to the end toe, understand the rest of that story.  So let's just say it. It's a little bit emotion packed. Um, it's not what you would expect from a safety book. It's it's kind of Ah, punch in the gut right at the end. So it's kind of a cliffhanger. There are definitely more stories, but like I said, you know, it's a lot of it was based on my mentor. He passed away in 2016 so you kind of connected us. But, uh, yeah, it was. It was a hard ending to write, and then and then I figured it was sitting.  So when you get to the portion where you actually decide with the name of the book, are you already thinking about relentless safety? And that's why you have portion of its Anguilla and relentless pursuit? Or is this something that just kind of happens? Serendipitous? Is this on how it actually ends up occurring? So the book inspired the website. There's a what I tried to do. When I was writing this, I was listening. Teoh, an audio book by David Guardians who was Ah, Navy SEAL, you know, ultra marathon athlete and, you know, just crazy, successful guy and just about everything he's done.  But he's had, you know, he had some really tough struggles. Get in there. And at the end of his book, a seat on the audio version. They did this, like, challenge. End of the chapter challenge. And it was basic stuff is same same vein is what I've got here from the safety perspective. But it was stuff like, Hey, you know, I want you to right on your mirror in your bathroom. What? You're what you're accountabilities are. And what are you gonna, uh, you gonna accomplish today and hold yourself to that?  And then the next chapter would build on that build on that build on that I stopped. That was a really cool concept. But then at the end of it, uh, the guy that was reading it, Who is this ghost writer? I would tell the listeners a you know, if you if you have something that you want to share from this or if you have a good experience. Tell us about your accountability mirror and use the hash tag. Can't hurt me, I think is what it was like.  That's a really cool idea. I wonder if I could get that to take off. So I actually used the hash tag, relentless safety in the book and then that turned into the website. So it's there, have always been closely linked. So are you at the time when you're writing the book building the brand. Are you doing the traditional 9 to 5 at the time, or what's going on way? Use 9 to 5, but we know most most before out there like 55 30. So right, yes, and I still him. So this is This is nights and weekends and you know, every everything in between.  Little breaks here and there. It's been a lot of work. It's been, uh, has been a challenge, but has been rewarding, too. So I've learned a lot from it. I think it's been something that I can take back to my organization. I have taken back to my organization and and used a lot of the tools and tips and tricks fairly successfully. I mean, we don't have any kind of scientific data on that yet, But you can write your own white paper, right? Right. The message resonates with people.  And you know, the more the more I get it out there, it's just funny, because people find me online, and then they come back to work in my regular job. Okay? I saw your videos. Great. It's like they're stalking you, and you're actually, you know, outside of work, which is an interesting book. Now, let's talk about the videos because you put some funny stuff out there. Um, some of these cat videos air interesting. So I mean, I look at it. So you're saying you do this when you're not.  So this is like something you do at night or on the weekend or when you have time available outside of work. So this is not even your 24 7 then? No, not at all. Um, you know, it's a balancing because I had two kids and a wife. That's probably a good idea. Yes, she just She just gave me the evil life. I know. I mean, based on stuff tonight when I was doing research about I mean, she looked like a professional Rollerbladers, so I'm not sure, you know, roller ball.  Better saying I would take it easy on what I would and she stuff scrappy for sure. Um, Noah the Yeah, this is This is all I usually film videos on Saturday night, Sunday afternoon, and then I spend, you know, Sunday night until whenever editing stuff. But the videos came about it kind of just out of nowhere. I'm sure you've heard of the company safe. Apia out of Canada. Um, I was actually at home sick. I had an ear infection a few months back, and I was, you know, miss around on, linked in and chatting with people and Jamie Young from safe.  Apia reached out to me and he goes, Hey, man, I love the blogged. I think I'd written the one about my couch at that point, and he said, It is hilarious. And, uh, because have you ever thought about doing video? And so we got to Chattanooga and eventually got on the phone together, Started talking about it. This young man I've done, I've done video before. I did a lot of video production for one of the companies I worked for on it was fun. But, man, it's tedious.  And I don't I just don't have that kind of time, Uh, at the moment. Yeah, but what if What if I produce them for you? And, uh, so I thought about it for a little bit and tried to think of something that I could add to the mix. You know, there's a lot of people out there doing really great content that are, you know, telling stories and talking and a little bit of the back and forth and characterization stuff that I do. But I wanted it to be something completely different that would kind of throw you off a little bit.  But again, you know, kind of sticky with the message of the end. So J Island Show. Enjoy some of your favorite host in the safety world. Enjoy Show by Sheldon Primary Blame J. 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Well, let's go ahead and change that moving Ford. Reach out to our team here at safety Focus Moment and let us make your next event extraordinary. We can provide you anything from guest speakers to full blown war shops. To find out more information, go to safety. Focus moment dot com that safety. Don't forget to tell them that you heard it here on safety FM and we are back on the J. Allen show on safety FM. I mean, I have to tell you some of the videos air.  Quite excellent. So safe. A pdf finds you A lot of this stuff has been working out for you. Very interestingly. This is something where you pursued some things they were. Now they're coming after you. So how does the Justice League wind on your lap so that Excuse me? The safety Justice League. Let me give it a proper date. Let me even the proper name here. I don't want right infringement. Problems of the safety Justice League wasn't even intended to be the safety Justice league. So it was.  I think back in October, Jason Lucas reached out to me. And of course, he does the same social, many social media safety minutes. And, uh, I had just started doing my safety snakebites and a couple other people. We were kind of watching doing different content, and he reached out and said, Hey, man, I don't think anybody's collaborating on this stuff. Would you want to Do you know, a collaboration videos? Sure. What? What? He what he got? What do you think we should dio and we came up with a couple ideas.  We actually shot something that we never aired. And then we just came up with this really simple concept. Go ask a safety pro and really, it was coming from that. That perspective sort of the same. Ah, same mantra is is the book, you know, is we were we were talking about, you know, providing and given back to maybe people that are in a place we've been before in our in our careers. So he have we recorded all these things independently, is initially it was myself Abby, Ferry, Nathan, Bremen, Jason, of course.  And then Joe Pena on the first Couple, and they just kind of took off like people. People really ate it up. And what was cool was it wasn't so much that, you know, we have all the answers. It was, uh, that we we started some conversations that people weren't having, and and then, you know, this person would add in Oh, yeah, I would do this. I would answer that question this way. And there was just so much knowledge that was being shared from all these videos. It was really cool in it.  and it just kind of took off like a rocket. So we're going to keep it up, and we're gonna kind of grow that. You know, Abby's favorite descriptor is organically, but I like it. Uh, we're just going to keep seeing We've got some pretty concrete plans now, but we're gonna see how how the future looks for that, What we really want to do and what what we've gotten the most. What, at least what I have I got the most out of from It is the community aspect.  You know, we're really giving a voice to people that maybe don't want a post content or are due and haven't ever done it before, you know? So that's that's something that we're really aiming toward it this way. I mean, I think it's interesting because you guys are getting a lot of impressions, a lot of people looking in your direction, but also at the same time, I know, just based on some of the research that I was able to dio that people make the assumption automatically that you're an overnight sensation.  Tell us some of the people some of the sacrifices that you had to put in in regards of getting Toe Warrior at in your career and the things that have occurred just to get to this point. So all of us, and I'll speak from my perspective. But all of us are about the same point in our career, give or take a couple of years. So I've been doing industrial safety for 16 years, started in the Air Force and transitioned out of done construction have done chemical operations, have been manufacturing of power plants, transmission and distribution just all over the map, which is great.  And, you know, you get all those varied experiences and you get to see things from different perspectives. But, you know, by no means was it any kind of overnight? You know, I think we we appeared in the spotlight pretty quickly, but we've we've all been around for quite a while and then, like you said, the sacrifices are you know, those for me, at least you know, moving state moves six times in six years and, you know, packing up to move my family here and there and going to little podunk towns that have nothing.  And you got to drive in an hour and 1/2 to get to the grocery store. We've done all that stuff and there's been some great experience to it. But it has, You know, it's never easy. Um, it's never cheap. So that's something that people need to consider. You know, e eat up as much as you can and absorb as much as you can throughout the journey. But if you're not willing, Teoh sacrifice and, you know, go where the work is or, you know, learn from the people that know more than you.  Then it's gonna be a hard road. So that's kind of my take on it. When you were sitting back in California Baptist University, did you ever think that this is where you would be at this point? No, I was gonna be a famous singer, and, um, I'm not. There's no way that you are. We gonna get us thinking video. Is this what you're hitting it? I am completely retired from from that business, but I'd say I was I was moderately good. I wasn't great by any stretch.  I think you should make a video. I mean, we need to We need to hear it and see it. You know full force here. Remember, you can edit If you can figure out how to get onto my old MySpace page. You can listen to all my demos Challenge accepted for the audience here. Um, now, I I didn't really know, you know, I went to school for communications. I, um I I was one of those kids that just didn't really have a goal. I just wanted to do big things.  I don't know what big things were and s I right after college, I worked a summer job, and then I moved to Nashville and I tried getting a band. I mean, I did everything from selling Kirby vacuum cleaners to selling cars, waiting tables, odd jobs here and there. I mean, it was just it was crazy. And then my little brother joined the Air Force, and he's the one that kind of got me thinking about it. You know, it's kind of hard on my like on my my college loans came do and and I was just, you know, struggling to make it to keep paying rent and all that stuff.  And he goes, Well, you should. You get a degree, you should go down and turn the Air Force to become an officer. And I went down to the officer recruiter and he wanted nothing to do with me because I didn't have ah, you know, an engineering degree, your mathematics degree or something like that. And after that, I went down to the enlisted guy, and I have never even taken the as vab in high school. So I went and took that Scored pretty high on it. The recruiter came back and was all excited in Sudan.  You could do anything you want in the Air Force. Here's your two choices. Anything you want. Two choices. Yeah. Um, So it was either a plumber or ammunition systems technician, and I didn't want to be a plumber. I don't know if I make that decision different. I mean, they make some money. Those guys you're doing, you're doing similar work to some extent. I said it, not you. All right. I didn't disagree, though. Let me ask the question, though. How do you What do you get the John l'll Avatar award for when you're in there?  So So the Air Force has when you enlisted before you can sew on your staff sergeant stripe and become a non commissioned officer, which is the five you have to go through six weeks of just really. I think it's probably some of the best leadership training out there, and every branch has has their own take on it. But you have to go through essentially business school to to learn how to manage and to learn how toe transition from being, you know, just a grunt worker to, you know, supervising people and doing documentation and speaking in front of audiences and given presentations to the commander and all these things.  So I mean, and they touted it as like a Fortune 500 level, uh, training class. And it really was, um we had the everything was flights in the Air Force. So you had your flight of people that you were in, and then he had her your class, uh, broken up into little. I don't know if they call them squadrons or what Can't remember at this point, but we have four classes in our flight of of these trainees. Before, we were all gonna be authorized, assigned to so honor our staff Sergeant stripe and traditionally the the class leader and each one of these classes was the highest ranking.  So they've been a senior airman for longer than anybody else. Usually meant they've been in the Air Force longer than anybody else. And you were just assigned that role your senior ranking person in the class leader. So I was not. I was promoted pretty quickly, so I was just a regular class member. But I have, in my speech, background and my public speaking background, I was able to help coach my class through the more difficult parts of their their presentations. And they unanimously voted me instead of the class leader, which was the traditional thing as the as their nominee for the award.  And essentially, what that meant was, as the top graduate in the class, which was a pretty big, big honor for me what you were talking roughly. Ah, 2005 I think. And boy, what impact did that have? I mean, take a look at where were this has gotten you this far, right? Yeah, I mean it. Definitely. It was a confidence booster. Um, I don't know that it set anything in motion, but it gave me it kind of clued me into what I was capable of, You know, in terms of how to influence people, how to help people, how to coach people through difficult things.  Because there are some people that are just terrified just to speak to our little group of fiber 10 people. And, you know, we really I can't say that was on me because we came out a za team. Uh, but we really were able t pull that group together and make something really special out of it. And I still keep in contact with it with a few of those people, so it's kind of it was kind of cool. Now, Jason, do you do any public speaking? Do you go out and talk to crowds of people currently, or is that something you're not doing at the time Not doing at the moment?  I just don't have the bandwidth to do it, but definitely is something that I want to pursue for sure. And I know I probably shouldn't ask you this, but what's your plans for the future? Are you planning on? You know, you're gonna build your brand and you're going to start doing your own thing or rather I talk about his potential employer might be listening. I always say nobody's listening. No one's listening. It's just us. It was No. I'm sure none of them realistic if they are friends with him.  Uh, no. The goal has always been to build the brand. Um, I do want to move into public speaking. I do want to move into, you know, sort of the, uh, that kind of circuit, I guess you call it, but really, where? Where I feel a lot of value and where I think I'm the best is little little groups of people and training them, teaching them the I don't like saying soft skills, but the, you know, the nontraditional, the basics that we just don't do, you know, how do you communicate better with your workers?  How do you engage better with the workers? How do you look at things in a different perspective or even, you know, how do you say things that don't make them doubt your intentions? Because we do that inadvertently quite a bit. You know, we talked about the business and we talked about the money that we're making, and even if that's not what's on your heart. It it comes across is I don't care about you. I'm you know, we got a business to run, so that's really where I want to take things.  My next plans, with relentless safety anyway, are to, ah to offer up some online training. My dream modules kind of based on some of the chapters in the book, one in particular is the writer's guide says You're not Shakespeare says question, stand saying Theo Chapter uh, so it is really trying to teach, you know, safety professionals, really anybody that's doing any technical writing, how to write instructions that aren't based in the legal terminology, because those air just useless to people that actually need to use them. Uh, so that's kind of the short term plans.  I've got some loftier goals that I'll keep you keep quiet for a little bit. Oh, you have to tell us more. But if you're gonna hold off, I'll try to drag it out on you. All right, try getting to be really. But even the effort. Sure. First of the next two books. The 2nd 1 I've got maybe 30% done already on. I'm just kind of poking along at it then that the cool thing about doing the bloggers that Aiken I'm going to use some of that, you know, is, or at least some of the topics already there.  So I just kind of translated into the book material, and some of that's already done for me. So So going back to something that you're seeing right before I rudely interrupted you. Do you think that there is There is an actual gap on some of the things that happened between the boardroom and the actual safety person that's there? Do you think that the board room should have a safety person? Because that's not it doesn't seem to be a common path. Currently, I think this is an opinion question.  So it's whatever you think here, you know, whatever. I think, um, I don't I don't know that there's very many safety people that would want to be in the board room, to be honest, Uh, so there's there's gonna be the challenge, but I think what What the board needs is better education. And I think I articulated it something like, You know, we need to write them better speeches and change their message because you know all. All you hear is, uh, we're good because we didn't have any OSHA recordable.  Well, that's a pretty useless thing to say, but that, you know, if you look at it from the perspective of somebody that zwart their entire career in operations and management and now they're at the top and that's all they've ever known, you know, it's gonna take a lot of knocking on the door and sort of touting in a different methodology before those people, except that there's something better, Um, so that's really where, where I think it needs to go. I don't know that somebody needs to be in the board room, but they definitely need an adviser that they're going to empower.  I mean, I think a lot of safety professionals air sort of in a figurehead positions. Unfortunately, and you know you can you can scream into the wind all day long, and it's not gonna do anything unless somebody says somebody at a very high level says no. This is what you say goes 200 degree. I mean, there's gotta have a little bit of flexibility there, but you're my professional. Your my expert. We're going to do it this way, and I don't I don't see that happening a lot. I see a lot of people want to save the people that are frustrated because they know the right thing to do and they can't get their leaders to do it.  T. O. J. Allen Show Top safety Speakers was created with the sole purpose of helping organizations achieve and sustain safety excellence. Top safety speakers is Recognizes North America's most impactful provider of safety. Excellent speakers and facilitators. Sustainable safety excellence is not one size fits all approach. That is why top safety speakers have hand picked a wide selection of speakers who impact and empower safety culture in performance developing leaders and inspiring workplaces for over 16 years. For more information, contact top safety speakers at 866 for 940445 That's 866 for 940445 or go to top safety speaker's dot com.  I've mentioned it before, but I am not the greatest and getting to places early, especially when traveling and getting to the airport early enough to avoid the I might miss the flight anxiety. That's why I'm excited about our newest sponsor here, and that's clear. Never run late again to a gate. Clear helps you get through security with the tap of a finger so you can get to your gate faster and reduce the free flight stress. Start getting through security in a tap Clear replaces the need of a physical I d.  Using eyes and finger tips to get you through security because you're the best idea out there. Create your own account online before you go to the air board. 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Ford slash safety and use code safety that's clearly dot com c l e a r m e dot com fort slash safety and use code Safety for your free two months of clear Make sure you tell him the JL intention.  Wondering how you can show your love head of announcing Facebook like. And we are back on the J. Allen Show on safety FM. Well, let me ask you one more thing in the now I'll let you be being is the safety Justice League is out and about and taking, you know, taking the world by storm. Well, if you go based on the Justice League as they have in D. C, they only take applications. Are you guys accepting applications for people that might be interested in joining your crew?  Well, uh, soft. Yes. That as I was, you know, it's gonna come up if it hasn't already. Somebody's gonna start asking that question soon. No, it has come up many, many times. Um, so that's what we're building into the website. We really wanted to be a community thing were the organizer's, you know, But we're not like we're not superheroes like that. You're not safety gods. Come on, you know, a little bit. I mean, you know, uh, no, no, we're not safety guides. We don't know all the answers, but we want we want tap into the people that are out there that have some of the answers that even, you know, that we don't have on bake something really amazing out of it.  So that is the whole goal of the safety Justice League. It's not four people. It's It is definitely meant to be a community. So we're we actually released our first video with the guest answer last week. We're gonna do another one this week and I will say I'll leave. It is surprised who is gonna be, But we got blown out of the water as far as our production by our guest this week. Hey, just killed it. So the platform is gonna be, at least on the website is gonna be a place where people collaborate.  People can You have kind of a spotlight. We've got plans for that and, you know, just really have sort of a community feel in the safety profession because it does get pretty lonely sometimes. And I know that all four of us have felt that way at times, and we want to give that support to people that maybe don't have it. So that's, uh, I was kind of a non answer. It's a non answer answer. At least it did cover some of material, so that's the important part.  So question for you, if people are interested in finding out more about you and your projects that you have going on work in the U. Okay, so for me they can go to relentless safety dot com. You can check out all my stuff. I've got links to the book of that link Stall my block posts. You can email me at Jason at relentless safety dot com for the Safety Justice League. You can go to the safety justice league dot com and actually sign up way haven't fully launched yet, but we're in the works, so if you sign up, you will get all the notifications when new stuff starts popping up on there.  And you can also email Safety Justice League at Gmail dot com And just make sure that you don't spell league face. And I really do appreciate you coming on to the show. I appreciate you having E. J. And this brings another episode of the J. Allen show to an end. It will be interesting to see the different things that Jason and the Safety Justice League will be doing in their careers over the next few months in years to come. This has been our show for today. Make sure that you follow us on all social media Facebook linked in Twitter.  You know the fun stuff also, if you want some more information about the network, please come to safety FM dot com. This will bring another episode to an end. Don't worry, cause we'll be back in no time. This has been Jalen Goodbye for now, one small of the J Island home. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guest, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples.  It's not be utilized in the real world at the only solution available as they're based only on very limited in dated open source information assumptions made within this analysis or not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, Elektronik, recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast.