Timestamps:
01:00 | Living on the Edge
03:10 | You Scratch My Back, I Scratch Yours
07:12 | The Importance of Knowing Your Strengths...
09:29 | ...And Recognising Your Achievements
11:41 | Break Out the Champagne
16:16 | Not Everything Was Obvious
22:13 | Opening Doors All Up and Down the Coast
25:44 | Never Say Never

Resources and Links:
InPhase Electrical Group
Linder Group
Surrey, England
Newcastle, NSW
North Richmond, NSW
Redbank
CBA (Commonwealth Bank Australia)
Penrith, NSW

Transcript:
Josh Rockingham:

[00:08:17] You always learn, even when you finish your trade you continue to learn. Same with property. You can know about property, but then there's learning how to make money from property which is another trade again. And you continue to learn even past, you know, I'll be 40 and 50 and still learning property.

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we’re back with Josh Rockingham, an electrician with a bright property future ahead of him. We find out just how many millions his property portfolio is valued at after just three years, how his business comes in handy in the least expected ways, and the approach he takes that puts his broker to the test.

Rockingham’s broker, Kimberly Linder, joins us to elaborate on his purchase at Redbank, near Newcastle.

Kimberly Linder:   

[00:29:27] Really Redbank is a brand new estate, a very, very young estate. You were in at $860,000. We actually have a property very similar on the market at the moment, which our customer just turned down an offer of $1.1M and they're holding out for that $1.17M. So Josh has gained close to $300,000 equity in that property which was purchased in 2019. That's again another house and granny flat, a beautiful Hamptons style house. What rent are you getting on that, Josh? Yeah, $1080 per week. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:30:14] That's amazing. So it is pretty much positive cash flow then.

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:30:17] It is definitely positive cash flow, and some.

Kimberly Linder:   

[00:30:20] Josh is very good with paying p&i repayments. I hope you don't mind me saying that, Josh. So it'd be really good to end, when we do, just in a strategy of where he wants to be in the final stages. But him pay principal and interest— this is how great this investment was— positively geared, paying principal and interest, a depreciation of about $18,000 a year, plus it's also creating a passive income. So somebody is actually paying that property off for him, as well as providing a passive income.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:30:57] Plus, you also got equity uplift as well, too, which you can use to pull out and reinvest into other properties.

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:31:02] Exactly. Which is what we've done, I think, to get the next one.

[00:00:00] In which is a similar setup, dual key as well, just a different area again which was up in Newcastle. But yeah, Redbank has been probably the standout of all of the ones even still that I've got today. Hence why I said I wish I kept the other block that I got. So if there's any regret in any investment is...

[00:00:27] Not to buy more. That was probably the only mistake that I've made. Hasn't really been a dodgy investment yet.

Tyrone Shum:   

His impulsivity can get the best of him, but Linder is always there to save the day.

Josh Rockingham:  

[00:01:00] The stress of getting things over the line, because I'm very impulsive. In terms of if I see something that's a good opportunity we go for it, and then we worry about getting the loan after that.

[00:01:21] The impulsiveness, and the stress of getting that sorted. In terms of actually investing itself, it's actually very enjoyable. There's not really any downside to it, just the stress of just gathering the funds. Which we end up getting, it's just a matter of leaving it to the last minute sometimes, or the day of.

Kimberly Linder:   

[00:01:46] 'I need an approval in three days, Kimberly, you good for that?'

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:01:53] We like to live on the edge. Why do it six weeks before when you can do it six hours before? We always get it over the line, and that's the main part, really.

Tyrone Shum:   

While getting finance approval isn’t an easy process, he has an additional hurdle to overcome. 

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:02:27] It's probably the fact that I do run my own business. You've obviously got to provide a lot more information, not just of yourself but of what your business is doing as well. So there's a lot of different people that you've got to wait to get information from. I.e. accountants, ATO, yourself. And they're trying to consolidate all that very quickly because as I said, for some reason every time I see something it usually tends to be around the end of financial year so then I've got to wait for my accountant to organise himself and you know what they're like, it can take a long time.

Kimberly Linder:   

[00:03:10] Josh gives them free electrical work so that they can get his tax return faster. That's what you did last year, remember?!

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:03:21] I love it! It's a win-win.

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:03:36] But I didn't do any work for him. So this year, I don't have mine yet. But last year it worked out. But it's not too much. A lot of the stress actually gets lifted off my shoulders. To be honest, it's usually Kimberly that deals with the stress. There is a few things obviously to do but having someone that you can rely on and trust as a broker definitely, definitely helps a lot.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:04:08] For sure. Well, Kimberly, I'd like to probably hear from your perspective. So Josh comes in and says, 'Kim, can you please get me a loan for this property? I need to sell in the next two or three days.' What happens then? I'm assuming your stress levels just jump really high. But how do you actually go about something like that as a challenge? 

Kimberly Linder:   

[00:04:30] I don't mind a bit of pressure. I think I work best under pressure. So a lot of the times, a lot of the properties where he's had some of these issues, these are properties that Linder Group have produced for Josh as well. 

[00:04:43] So in a booming market, some of the opportunities people want to exchange under 66 W and under terms that are not really happening in a normal property market. So it's sometimes the, 'Right, assess it, give him the confirmation that it is going to work, the confidence that we are going to be able to get it out over the line and then work to make that happen.'

[00:05:18] So in some of the things that Josh has spoken about we might have needed updated financials to show consistency. Particularly in times like COVID, banks are asking a lot more. So he will have to get everything together, get it to me. And this is just cross over a financial year, but some of the challenges Josh has faced because I know that he spoke about his first loans with CBA. We continued down that path where the next couple of loans went to CBA as well. So whereas they couldn't get him any more money, I did a little bit of a restructure, presented things a little bit different from a financial situation which meant we could get them over the line. 

[00:06:03] But then we had difficulties with CBA because their policies changed so much through COVID. So we had to make a quick swap to work with other banks' policies to then get the next loan over the line. So really it's just me having to know my job and Josh trusting that everything works from a capacity point of view. Yeah, we may be down to the 11th hour but we know that we're going to be able to get it over the line. So a lot of trust. We always do.

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:06:38] It's funny, it is a lot of trust and you end up building a friendship with your broker. It's more than just, 'You get my loan and see you later,' it's a journey. It always ends up being every loan, every house is a journey.

[00:07:12] I can say I would have had the right idea without anyone else, but in saying that a lot of the stuff that I've done would definitely not have been possible without Kimberly and also Linder Group finding properties. But also I don't have the time to research, you know? You need to let people do what they're good at doing what you do what you're good at doing. And I'm good at doing electrical and I don't have time to sit there and research areas and properties and growth and what new university is going in or school or tram lines, road lines, train lines. There's a lot to it. Which I do actually learn a bit of now, but not at all at the start. 

[00:07:57] So it's definitely a guidance and learning curve for me. As I say to a lot of my friends who ask me about it, it's like learning another trade. You can touch on electrical for a little bit but you need to do your whole trade to actually grasp it. And more. You always learn, even when you finish your trade you continue to learn. Same with property. You can know about property, but then there's learning how to make money from property which is another trade again. And you continue to learn even past, you know, I'll be 40 and 50 and still learning property.

Tyrone Shum:  

Rockingham’s aha moment came along very recently, once he had time to sit and assess his achievements.

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:09:29] You get caught up with it a lot. You get one, then you work, then you get another one and you're just compiling it all together. You never really sit down and appreciate actually how successful it's been until someone points it out to you. I.e. being Kimberly said, 'Oh, hey, you realise you've actually had an uplift of around $1.7 million.' I nearly fell off my chair to be honest, because I didn't actually realise. I just thought, 'Yeah, okay, let's keep going.' And before you know it, I was like, 'Jeez, that's a fair bit.' And then I realised the potential even more so. 

[00:10:09] So that was probably the biggest aha moment in going, 'I've achieved this in four years.' Whereas you probably never be able to get that working and earning money. Even in electrical, there's no way that you'd gain that. That's probably the biggest moment for me.

Coming up after the break, Rockingham goes on a journey of self-discovery...

[00:14:53] I need to know about money to run the business as well. But just being open to being a sponge. I guess I'm a sponge. That's what I'd call myself. 

The number one goal he has regarding his future plans, which appears to be closer than he thought...

[00:19:28] Personally, it'd be growing the portfolio is what's exciting to me. New opportunities. 

We delve into the surprising realisation he recently came to and how it came about.

[00:22:27] So just the area and the growth in that area, and what actually the area's got to offer and realising that Sydney is not the be all and end all to where you've got to live. 

And that’s up next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:   

With Rockingham’s $1.7 million in uplift, Linder crunches the numbers to work out his bank valuation. In the meantime, he ponders the COVID era market.

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:11:41] Knowing when to buy, as well. When, where, and then what part of the cycle to buy. Obviously, as you'd know, right now, the market is crazy. It's continuing to go up. 

Kimberly Linder:    

[00:12:04] Wow! $6,865,000. Bank valuation.

Tyrone Shum:
[00:12:19] That is amazing. Congrats!

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:12:44] Having the advice, as well as knowing yourself, when and where to buy. Personally, I wouldn't buy right now, at the moment, because it's a bit inflated. That's my personal opinion, especially around the Western Sydney, Sydney area. It's just going bananas.

[00:13:15] I'd let it sort of correct itself, which I think it will do eventually, once interest rates go up. Because a lot of people will probably find themselves not being able to afford their mortgage that they've somehow managed to get with the low interest rate at the moment. It does cycle. 

[00:13:36] Not just knowing where to buy, also knowing how things work, how banks work, how the Royal Commission works, how all these things work. If you don't do your background checks on those sort of things, and getting an understanding of the way the world works, really, you can't really predict how things are gonna happen. Not saying that I have any idea of what's happening in the future, I don't know how to predict the future. But you sort of get a good idea of how things are going up. When things are going to plateau, where they're going to calm down a little bit, then you jump in then. 

[00:14:18] It wouldn't be so much luck. As I was saying to Kimberly earlier, you sort of create your own luck, I'd say. There's no such thing as getting lucky. You got to be in the right place at the right time to get luck, so it's really saying that you've created yourself. I think that knowing the way everything works, markets work, how interest rates work, how banks work, how money works, how you can make money or where you can't make money. I think just having a general idea in those things is a great help. 

[00:14:48] So running a business actually benefits me in terms of knowing about money, obviously, because I need to know about money to run the business as well. But just being open to being a sponge. I guess I'm a sponge. That's what I'd call myself. A sponge. You can never know too much. And never think you know everything, because you definitely don't. You're always learning off everyone else is what I do. But it wouldn't make a difference today if I had $100 million in property, I'd still listen to people. Still learn, still take advice, and still do exactly probably what I'm doing now. And that's probably exactly what I'll continue doing.

He does much of his research on his own, but it definitely hasn’t always been that way.

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:16:16] But to get to that, to start with, the main mentor was definitely Kimberly. Because the first two was sort of, you know, you need a house to live in. I didn't really need any advice to know that I need to live in a house to live in. And the first one was more of a touch of advice from who I worked for, and just going with the flow. 

[00:16:37] But from there on, the only main mentor would be Kimberly and Jason. I can't really put it to anyone else. Because they're pretty much the only people I take my advice from. And obviously my own knowledge now that I've learnt on the way. Yeah, don't really read any books, as I said, so that's who I put it to, to be honest, there's no other way around it.

Tyrone Shum:   

Although ten years ago he was only 17, there’s still things he would change if he could— but not everything!

Josh Rockingham:  

[00:17:29] I started at 21, I would say start at 18. Why not? Instead of going on those two years of partying where you probably blew X amount of dollars, you could have invested in something else. But at the same time you need to party as well. Can't just sit at home, save every penny and invest and never have any fun because at the end of the day, what's the point? You need to have a bit of both. So I'd probably just say, 'Do what you're doing, maybe start a touch earlier.' A couple years could have helped a bit more.

[00:19:21] Looking forward, say maybe in the next five years, what are you most excited [about] in your property journey?

Josh Rockingham: 

[00:19:28] Personally, it'd be growing the portfolio is what's exciting to me. New opportunities. For me, I want to get my principal home down to zero. That's my goal. I don't want to have a mortgage that I have to pay for my principal home. That way I can concentrate on paying off my investments. But yeah, definitely expanding the portfolio. 

[00:20:01] I did say to Kimberly, when I first met Kimberly, I said I want to have 30 houses by the time I'm 30. But that only leaves me with three years to get 19. Which... I never say never, but yeah. Maybe 20 by 30 is more realistic. Sometimes I set unrealistic goals and just go with it. But we'll see.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:20:25] Oh, yeah, I mean, anything's achievable, especially what you've achieved in such a short period of time. So if you set that goal, let's go for it. 

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:20:37] It's better to give it a crack, I'd say. But yeah, definitely growing the portfolio is my main priority. To set myself up for when I'm older, set my kids up and be able to have a comfortable retirement is the goal.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:20:54] You're definitely well on your path for that. Your kids are gonna be very, very happy to hear as well. And they'll learn a lot from this as well. So in 10 [or] 20 years time when they hear this podcast, hopefully they'll look back and go, 'Dad, thanks very much.'

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:21:07] Yeah, I hope so. You never know, they might. I'll definitely be training them into property, and electrical, as soon as they can handle it.

Tyrone Shum:   

Out of the 11 properties he’s purchased, one in the Newcastle suburb of Thornton stands out as being the most interesting.

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:22:13] Interesting in the fact that when we built them, I actually got to do electrical for my own properties as well. We organise with the builder, because I like to do that. 

[00:22:27] So just the area and the growth in that area, and what actually the area's got to offer and realising that Sydney is not the be all and end all to where you've got to live. That's probably the exciting part, realising that. I live in Sydney, obviously, but yeah, around Sydney is growing, majorly. Two [or] three [or] four hours away from Sydney, up the coast or down the coast, it's just expanding. It's actually becoming nicer than Sydney to live in. There's much less traffic and bigger roads, and everything's just growing big. Hospitals, universities, or you name it, that was something that I really got interested in and that was a big sign for me, just realising that, how good different areas are becoming.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:23:20] Why do you think that's the case?

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:23:24] Probably price, I'd say. The cost of living in Sydney. COVID was probably one big thing as well. Obviously, the risk of living in Sydney during COVID time was obviously worse than if you were to live somewhere else. A lot of people working from home now realising they don't need to drive into the city to actually go to work and work in the office, they can actually have a beach house five hours up the coast, looking to get a nice view and actually getting the same amount of work done if not more while they're sitting there. 

[00:24:02] I've even noticed myself, friends or work colleagues and whatnot have actually moved out rural or up the coast, down the coast, getting out and it's cheaper. A lot of different things, a lot of doors have opened up since COVID. Whether it be... probably a lot of more bad that outweighs the good in regards to COVID. But if you take something out of it, it's the fact that you don't really need to rely on staying around a central hub, i.e. Sydney, to navigate your way through your career.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:25:23] You've talked a little bit about luck. And you mentioned earlier as well, too, Kimberly, that it's not all luck for you. But you have sort of touched on it. But I will ask you this question about your success: how much of your whole success has been due to skill, intelligence and hard work, and how much of it is because of luck?

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:25:44] I'd say 95% of it was skill. Actually, I wouldn't say so much skill, moreso hard work, hard work, and drive. And I've got like, I'm a workaholic, and major OCD probably contributes to it as well. But I believe working hard, you create your own luck. You create your own opportunities. It's not like it just gets given to you. And luck falls out of the sky, I don't believe in that, to be honest with you. It's more so creating your own luck through the steps that you decide to take in your own life. That's what I believe in. 

[00:26:24] Which I think is... so I'd say more of it is down to hard work. And then learning skills on the way, I wouldn't say that was the start of it. Because I didn't so much as have those skills when I first ever started. But I always had drive. Always had a passion to work hard, and never had any fear in creating opportunities or going for something. That was probably the main thing for me.

Kimberly Linder:   

[00:27:14] To touch on that with Josh, in every aspect of his journey, he has had to be resourceful. So I would say that's probably your number one greatest quality because he had to find the answers in every single step. With every single property. Nothing with his journey has been easy, not nothing. Except funnily enough, this last loan we've just done, that's been the easiest one. 

[00:27:42] So he's been resourceful from having to find out how he can get in without a deposit, great parents that have helped him, and then he's had issues with lending because of his being self employed, where he's been resourceful, being able to get that over the line. Then he's hit the wall again, he's had to find somebody else that can help where obviously that's where we come in. 

[00:28:09] But then he's hit the ceiling with lending on several occasions where then he's had to not only be resourceful but he's had to know that he needs to be flexible in terms of what we can and what we can't do in order to get the next property over the line. So resourcefulness and being willing to learn as well as work with the strategies that are available to you. Which you've always been so open to all of that, haven't you?

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:28:40] Yeah, never say never attitude. Always find a way. Resourcefulness is probably a good word to describe it. Because it has been hiccups all the time with lending. Especially when you own your own business. For some reason. They make it much harder for you. 

Tyrone Shum:   

His business mindset has helped him in his property journey, as he’s used to being proactive and taking initiative.

Josh Rockingham:   

[00:29:32] It definitely is like a mindset. The big thing to do of all that is mindset, really. I guess it all comes from within. Drive, willing to succeed and not settling for mediocre or however you want to see it. Different people are wired differently. But at the end of the day, if you want to succeed and do something, the opportunity is definitely there to do it. You've just got to go out and get it. It might not be easy, it might take people longer, it might take someone six months as opposed to someone three years, who knows. But the possibility is you can definitely do it if you want to put in the work to do it. Is the way I see it.

Thank you to Josh Rockingham, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.