In this episode, we delve deep into Demousselle’s initial property venture, a venture that was more than just a financial investment – it was a test of resilience, strategic decision-making, and sheer determination to overcome obstacles. Brace yourself for an immersive experience as we witness the incredible metamorphosis of Demousselle’s mindset.

Through the highs and lows of her property journey, Laurence has not only weathered the storms but emerged strong, more confident, and with a profound appreciation for the tough decisions that defined her path. Get ready for a riveting exploration filled with insights, inspiration, and a rollercoaster of emotions as we unravel the layers of Laurence Demousselle’s enthralling property journey. 

Timestamps:
00:01:10 | The Challenging First Deal
00:05:39 | The Art of Property Searching
00:07:10 | Learning from the Journey
00:08:50 | Cutting Corners and Challenges
00:11:00 | The Snowball Effect
00:14:34 | The Aha Moment
00:16:07 | Transformative Habits in Times of Lockdown
00:19:31 | Ten Years Ago: Navigating Uncertainty and Trusting the Process
00:24:18 | Decoding Success: Skill, Intelligence, and Hard Work
 
Resources and Links:

 
Laurence Demousselle: 

Pretty much when the commencement of work started, he asked for more time. He did say along the way that there was going to be variations and stuff like this. And there were so many requests with variation that at some point you had to pick and choose your battles. 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies. 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we’re back with Laurence Demousselle who balances a career in advertising with running a property consultancy business, called One Level Up. Prepare to dive into an initial property venture, where she skillfully manages challenges, and witness her mindset transform as she now appreciates the tough decisions she made. 

In an initial venture into construction, Demousselle and her partner encountered numerous challenges while attempting to manage a difficult builder for their first project, who proposed numerous variations and even threatened to stop work. 

Laurence Demousselle: 

That first deal was the most challenging one, not only because it was the first, but because the builder was incredibly hard to manage. So when we decided that construction or being a consultant in construction was going to be our vehicle, my partner Nat went to TAFE and learnt building construction for a year. So she actually came out with a Certificate IV in Building Construction, not that she wanted to be a builder but it's more on credibility, education, being able to talk to the builder and knowing when they you know, kind of bullshit you or not, or when it's reasonable so. 

And as women in this industry, [we understood] it was also important to build that credibility. And [for the] first deal, that builder was ticking all of the boxes before the work actually studied; he was really responsive, reasonable in price, had great ideas in how to reduce the build costs and stuff like this. [We thought that was] awesome.

Yeah, it sounds great. I mean it sounds like a dream too good to be true.

Laurence Demousselle   

And that's what he was. Pretty much when the commencement of work started, he asked for more time. He did say along the way that there was going to be variations and stuff like this. And there were so many requests with variation that at some point you had to pick and choose your battles. So some of them were alright. This one is really unreasonable; it's a 'no go'. And then he was also threatening us to stop working. 

So when you've got a builder saying this, you kind of look at cost analysis, right? What does that mean if you stop working? If you stop working one week, three weeks, five weeks, you know, like, what does that mean for your project? 

So, we really picked our battles. [We] agreed to some and then refused some. And some of them were due to the contract—not the contract, but the inclusions were not as strong as we thought [they were]. So going back to reading contracts and building that experience, we would not have the same challenge now. Because we've got a few years of experience, right? 

But it being our first [project], there were some [aspects] in the contract and inclusion that we oversaw. And then he was able to just say, 'Well here, see this was not included so the variation is a must'. 

So, when it was the case, we said, 'Well, not cool, but alright, we'll pay.' When it was something completely unreasonable, we pushed back. It sounds like a lot, but when we look back at the project, I think the total win variation was only $15,000, so that's not much. But we know now how to respond.

Yeah, that's the thing. I mean even $15,000—depending on how large the project is—it's still profit, you know, at the end of the day. You can't look [indiscernible].

It was less about the money and more about the process. Like, we always talked about a journey to get there. Like, he was really hard to manage. And at some point the site manager, who's different than the builder—you've got the guy who kind of leads the contract element and then you've got the guy who actually comes on site and check the progress of your site—this guy turned out to be, you know, verbally aggressive as well and abusive. So this journey was hard. 

Despite the initial frustration caused by this situation, Demousselle has taken away the importance of resilience in the construction industry and now carries these lessons with her on her journey.

We obviously learned about everything, our mistakes, what we did well, what we did wrong, and then we've put some stuff in place afterwards to try to not be in that situation again. 

But looking back at the due diligence, because I would recommend to everyone to do due diligence with everyone that they work [with]. 

And to be honest, I would not have changed the due diligence that we did, because literally we called his tradies and his clients, you know, and there were good reviews and stuff like [that]. So I think the due diligence was right, but I think he turned because of COVID-19 as well. That was literally the first time we were talking, and I think he turned. 

Entering the property development arena can be challenging for many, with the daunting task of choosing the right area and securing a deal. Fortunately, Demousselle didn’t face this dilemma, thanks to a valuable mentor who provided crucial guidance. 

So this one was a single dwelling, because the mentor that we had said, 'Start as small as you can and then build up'. Well, there's nothing smaller than a single dwelling, right? So we started with that, and then we looked at all of the documents around what you can and can't do with town planning and stuff like this, like DCP list and whatever else. 

So we knew what type of site we were looking for and then after a few months, and we knew also the areas where the figures would stack up and then it's really about property searching. Once you've done the area research, you've done your figures, then it's really around what property will fit all of this. 

And then after a few months we found it; it was auction based—so a bid, which was the easiest part. Winning the auction is the easy part, making sure that you make the profit at the end is the hardest. So we were successful in the auction, and then we started construction. 

Okay. How long did that project roughly take even with a bit of the delays?

I think a little bit over two years.

Despite encountering challenges throughout the first project, Demousselle achieved an impressive profit, reinforcing her confidence in the effectiveness of the chosen strategy. 

We probably bought the property [for] $1.2 million. [The] construction and some of the strategy costs [were] probably $600,000. There are obviously other costs around that I don't have in my mind [now], but, you know, your bank, all of your professionals—your architect, private certifier—you obviously pay also for the council contributions and stuff like this. 

What I do remember though, is the amount that we made at the end and then the percentage, because figures are what they are but the percentage is something that gives you perspective. So, even though that project was hard on a daily basis, we made $500,000 over two years—pure profit. 

Excellent. 

And that's really when we realised that, wow, it works, and it works on a single dwelling when everyone was saying you are not going to make money. We knew we would; we just didn't realize how much we were going to make, and obviously, COVID-19 helped us in the process, right? 

Yes. 

So from a margin perspective, I think it [was] 25% margin.

That's an excellent margin for just being able to do your first project, too. 

First project [and a] single dwelling. So yeah, that worked out. The outcome was really good; the journey was difficult, but the outcome was really good.

It's always like that, isn't it? You've got to enjoy the journey, as they always say, whether it be good or bad.

If not during the time, at least afterwards, you can learn from it. 

Absolutely. Would you say this particular journey or this particular scenario was one of your worst or most challenging times, or have you had other challenges?

Yes, [we have faced] other challenges, but nothing compared to this. Nothing. 

So when you say he was quite difficult to deal with, was it [also] because there were a lot of delays, and the way he sort of acted towards you and your partner?

And he tried to cut corners as well. In the specs, there were some [things] that were supposed to be in steel; the stairs, for example, were supposed to be in steel, and then when I went to check the side, they were actually putting timber. And see, if you're not there, you don't see it. 

So as soon as she saw that, she just told the tradies to just stop; she called the site manager to sort it out, and it changed, and he went back to the contract and what we said. But see, they knew. They knew what they were doing; they were trying to [indiscernible], but it didn't work. But it was that. That was obviously a massive topic, but these little things here, here, and there on a regular basis, [he was] just trying to cut corners. 

Also, it's very tiring and emotionally draining as well because you're constantly having to go and check. 

It's time-consuming [and] draining because you don't know what's going to happen today. Everything you need to fix takes energy and time, and you have to convince the other party because every other day [they were saying], 'Well, I'm done working'. Mate, you got a contract; you can't just stop working. 

Yeah. 

And it rained a lot that year. Again, you just see the numbers. You just know how much the project costs per day, so you just want to get it done as quickly as possible. 

Of course. Yeah, that's the biggest challenge. So this single dwelling—how many bedrooms, bathrooms? A little bit more details around it. 

[It had] five bedrooms, three bathrooms, and two car parks. 

Oh, that's pretty big. Did you sell that off or have you kept that one?

No, we sold it. We sold it for profit, took the money, and then [did] it again. 

Demousselle reflects on the evolution of these property ventures, starting with a single dwelling and overcoming challenges. With an initial focus on slow and steady growth, she now manages three simultaneous projects, expanding into duplexes and exploring opportunities beyond residential developments, which include commercial properties. 

Not every year, because during the first project we only had that one because it was so time-consuming that we really didn't want to have anything else at the same time. 

So it was really the snowball [effect], when you normally start small but you start slow and then you build up. So now we've got three at the same time. But in total, I think since we start[ed], it's five developments between us and our clients. We also look at commercial property. So we're not only doing resi[dential], we're also looking at commercial property.

All of the other ones are duplexes and a bit further away from Sydney, because Sydney went berserk. The client that we serviced as well didn't have the capital to be in Sydney as well. So we had to go a little bit further, but all duplexes.

And how long have those taken to build. [Were they] roughly about the same time or quicker now? 

Probably about the same time, to be honest. There's one right now that we're [working on] with the fast-tracking use as well, which we call the CDC [Complying Development Certificate]. But the other ones, we had to [go through] the DA [Development Application] process, and that takes at least six to eight months anyway. So there's a big chunk of the project where, not that you're waiting, right, but you know, there's a little bit of [preparatory] work before going to the council, and you're basically kind of waiting. So the fun is when the construction starts. 

I agree. I think once you get the shovel into the ground and you turn dirt, then you go. 'Wow, we are actually seeing [the] progress'. But if it's just sitting there waiting for Council [approval], it's a lot of holding costs [and] time waiting. It’s painful, I know.

So the only way really to reduce that is if you can go with the fast-track [process]. [However, with] the fast track, there are some requirements on the side that you need to [meet], like ticking boxes. So you just have to make sure that you find these ones, and if you can, then you just use a site that has a DA [Development Application]. You know that you will make money anyway; it's just going to take a little bit longer. 

Coming up after the break, Demousselle shares a valuable habit she adopted during COVID-19, one that continues to play a crucial role in her life and yields significant benefits. 

Laurence Demousselle: 

The only thing you could really do was go for a walk. We started to walk every day and listen to podcasts or books through audiobook [apps] and stuff like this. 

She reflects on the priceless advice she’d have told herself 10 years ago, offering a beacon of guidance through life’s challenges. 

Laurence Demousselle: 

But it's like, just trust yourself that you are resourceful, that whatever decision you make, you're going to make the most out of it anyway. 

Instead of attributing her experiences to mere luck, she shares that she has shifted her mindset to recognise and appreciate the outcomes as results of her hard work. 

Laurence Demousselle: 

And then for luck, I'm not really using that word anymore. I'm just saying, you know, I'm creating my own opportunities. 

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

In the course of her property journey, Demousselle’s greatest revelation extends beyond monetary gains. Recognising the profound impact of mindset, she emphasises the significance of effective communication, people management and personal growth. 

Obviously, money is great; not that we are enjoying [the money] that much because we are always investing. 

But it's the mindset that comes with it, like when we joined that network, as she said, it's 20% mechanics—so education around property and stuff like this. And it's 80% mindset, and we said, 'Really, that sounds like very proportionate'. And it's kind of true, to be honest, because you have to be ready to accept the challenge. You have to be able to manage people, and everyone has their own concern and everyone has their own life and challenges. 

So making sure that you've got an effective communication [system]. I've learned a lot about communication, for example.. Even though I learned that in the real estate side of things, I'm using it at work and in my personal life as well. So there was a lot to learn, and I think we've come a long way and like everything, it's a work in progress. But the journey from a mindset perspective has been massive.

Demousselle shares a habit she adopted during COVID-19, detailing how this daily ritual has not only transformed her mindset but also reshaped her outlook on perceived failures.

 

I'm not so much of a reader, but I like to listen. One habit we got from COVID when we were all locked up, the only thing you could do really was go for a walk. We started to walk every day and listen to podcasts or books through audiobook [apps] and stuff like this. I listen [to] a lot of things in the morning and every day. 

Jim Rohn and Tony Robbins are two people [that I listened to]; one was the mentor of the other one, [actually]. So that's interesting. I listen to a lot of their content on YouTube, for example. So every morning, I listen to that. So the repetition [of listening to them] and [having that] whole [mindset of] 'Yeah, that makes sense', the 'Oh, they're saying this, let me look at my life', [thinking], 'Yeah, actually that makes sense'. 

And see, [with] everything I was telling you before, I was grateful to have stalled to come here, or [how I] made that decision in my studies that has changed my life forever. And before, I kind of felt like a failure by changing course in my studies, and [I would say to myself], 'You didn't finish your law degree' —well, I did finish it but I could have [done] more and be[come] a lawyer. And so [now I] say, 'Well, yeah, but look at where you are now'. 

And that is actually a massive step to really see things that you [thought] were failures and now you're like, 'Well, actually, they're not. They were just part of what makes me who I am now. And I kind of like myself, to be honest'. 

I'm a good person anyway, not perfect, but I'm a good person. And I've always wanted to improve and get to my goals. Now I'm very clear on my goals; before, I was kind of, you know, I'll live life and enjoy it, but I didn't have a goal as per se. 

So now I'm a lot more driven. I was hardworking; now I'm driven. 

Demousselle discusses her process of finding and selecting impactful content, providing examples of the most influential material she engages with. 

On YouTube, I type a topic or someone, and then I listen to it. So it's not always a book; it could just be a portion of a conference that Tony [Robbins] has done, for example. In terms of books that I know that everyone will know is ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’. There was another one as well… oh, I forgot the name of the one that Jim [Rohn] has done.

Oh, okay. Yeah he's done a few books. I can't remember it as well. But I think I know what you are talking about. 

Or even Napoleon Hill [and his book], ‘Think and Grow Rich'. Like, these big names I've listened mostly on podcasts. But it's a lot of YouTube videos on a specific topic. It's between 10 minutes to two hours, and then I listen to that. It's less about the book as per se, but it's more about 'What content do I need this morning?', for example, to make sure I'm going to have a good day.

She reflects on the advice she would give her younger self, encouraging trust in the decision-making process and embracing the unknown.  

[I would say,] 'Oh, look at you, you look so great'. I probably [would] not start with that, but anyway— I would probably not want to give myself a clear idea of what the future looks like. But I would probably encourage myself to make whatever decisions I want to make. 

Ten years [ago] from now, we were still in Paris, so we wouldn't have been here [in Australia] yet. But it's like, 'Just trust yourself that you are resourceful, that whatever decision you make, you're going to make the most out of it anyway. Don't doubt yourself too much. Just go for it and make the best out of it, because it's going to work. No details on what life would look like, but just know that you'll be fine'. 

So having that faith. Because, at that point in time, I remember you were saying that you're not certain, you're stalling about coming to Australia. So maybe that kind of message to her would be like, 'Okay, just trust the process'.

That's right. That's exactly right.

And then looking forward to the future. And we've talked about this a little bit already. But I'd like to probably hear [in that] there'll be sort of the perspective [of] what are you most excited about in, say, five years' time?

The reason why we're doing all of this—and again, property is the vehicle—is more around achieving our goals. So we are on our way to achieve our goals, but I want to be able to go back to France and take care of my parents, for example. If I had to do it now, I would have to quit my job here and put my life on pause to go there and take care of them. Well, if in five years' time we get to what we want, I can actually do both. 

Yes. 

So what I'm excited about is being in the position one day—and hopefully before five years [passes]—when I can do that. That's what drives me.

Yep. 

That’s why I can work how many hours [of] my day job and then work on the business, because I know it's there; I can feel it now.

In order to envision the future she desires, Demousselle highlights the effectiveness of creating a vision board filled with images representing her aspirations, emphasising its role as a powerful motivational tool. 

On that vision board, what you've got [is] what I just said, [includes] like, being with my friends and family. There are a lot of different places that I want to go to, from a travelling perspective. There were a few pictures around the types of projects that we wanted to build, like a nice facade for like [a] 3- to 6-pax or whatever. 

There were some [photos of] not so much fancy warehouses, but warehouses that will be profitable on the commercial side of things that we would want to hold because passive income is the ultimate goal in order to go do the travelling and seeing [my] family. So yeah, they would be anything related to 'Why am I doing all of this?' —family, travelling and projects to get there.

Nice.

And a figure. I'm not going to tell the figure, but [it's] a figure of what I want to hit in order to do that.

Tyrone Shum:  

And that's the thing, we need to have that clear goal. Without a clear goal, we don't have a direction or [we would] not be driven towards it. So, it's great that you've got that there. Probably share with us some of the places that you want go to travel to. I'm just curious, you know. You don't have to name all of them, but just some of the places that you'd like to see.

Yeah, [listing] all of them will be too long. Peru is one of them. Jordan would be one of them. Iceland, which is close to home—so I think it would be easy—where you can see the Northern Lights.

Yes, the beautiful lights.

Yeah, so that's just three of them. But yeah, there's plenty. I think at the end of the year I might be able to go to Indonesia with my parents. So yeah, that's probably the next one.

Why Indonesia? That's interesting.

The process [that resulted in that choice] is as follow[s]: countries that my parents [have been to], countries that [I have not been to]. That's the first step. Countries that we want to [visit]. Then, is it something that is suitable for the three of us. And here, so it's allowing me to go back to France, spend some time with friends and family. And then on my way back to Australia, they can just come not [so much] halfway [to join me]. These were the criteria of [how we decided to go to] Indonesia.

Nice. You'll have fun there. I've been there a few times. So highly recommended. 

Tyrone Shum:  

You've achieved a lot Laurence, and your journey has been a really interesting ride as well, too. I guess I wanted to ask you how much of your success is due to your skill, intelligence, and hard work. And how much of it do you think has been because of luck?

Yeah, that's interesting. So we all have luck, but it's one of the two words that I'm stopping myself from using because, you know, again, going back to mindset, it's about creating your own opportunities, right? And if you do create them, then it's no longer part of luck. So being busy and busy and busy and busy, I'm done saying this. I am. But now I'm talking about priorities. 

And then for luck, I'm not really using that word anymore. I'm just saying, you know, I'm creating my own opportunities. So changing the wording—change the meaning and it's more empowering. So I would say a lot comes from us, other than from a skill perspective, from a journey on the mindset and, yeah, just taking responsibility on what works and what doesn't. 

Definitely. So create your own opportunities. There's no… really no such thing as luck for you. You know, there's no right or wrong,

There is, but I just don't want to use it because it just takes the power away and gives it to the universe. And I'd rather take it back.

Take control of your destiny. 

That's right. 

Thank you to Laurence Demousselle, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.