Today on The Jay Allen Show, we speak to relationship expert Layla London from The Curious Girl podcast.
Layla talks about how her life changed after not being intimate with anyone for 3.5 years and the impacts relationships have on peoples lives if you don't communicate properly.
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The transcript is not perfect.
[00:00:02] spk_0: This is this show is brought to you by safety FM. It begins in Orlando florida and travel steadily to the west beaming across north America and planet earned into your head world of safety never stops. And now the safety FM podcast and broadcast with DR J Allen or hello and welcome to another episode of the J Allen show. I hope everything is good in grand inside of your neck of the Woods. I have to tell you um when I gave you an episode on friday, that is our mini episode to get you ready for our episode on Tuesday, which is today for us to talk to Layla London, you know that it was something you know that it was going to be a conversation that I warned you to hear. So let's kind of get some of the other things out of the way right away. This conversation that I have with Layla is mostly related to relationships and I reached out to her because she is an expert in relationships. So I wanted to have her come onto the show. Please understand that this particular show today is not heavily involved around safety, it is around the subject of relationships in how sometimes we don't pay attention to relationships and things that you can do to make your relationships better. So I want to make sure that we're clear about that. Also if young ears are around this is probably not going to be the episode for them. I just want to throw that out there right away. This is why we have the parental advisory listed on this particular episode. So I want to make sure that I give you all those warnings ahead of time. So before we start today's episode and go into the whole thing. Let me tell you a little bit about Layla. Layla London is a woman in her forties who just recently decided to explore her sexuality after about a 3.5 year, self imposed dry spells. She woke up one day and said, what the heck am I doing to myself? Why have I shut down that side of my sexuality? I need physical contact badly. I decided to stop wasting the pretty and get out there having set out on my sexual road trip. I'm scratching things off my sex bucket list. I'm getting laid exploring kinks a word I really didn't know anything about before this having fun sifting through the emotions that steers up in me blogging and podcasting about it anonymously. So there you go. That is the story of Layla London. So I would love for you to sit back and relax and take a listen to this episode that I have going on today with Layla London and we'll title this one, The curious Girls Diaries as it's taking over the show here today, enjoy. It is streaming now on safety FM. Don't light. It seems like it's going now. So you want to finger if you want a finger cross and we'll go from there. Okay, Mr feeling lucky. Let's go from there. So lame, I guess really this is it. I mean here's the unfortunate portion because I try to be as honest as possible with the audience. I've already asked you this question, so I get to ask you to you the same question again. What we were discussing before was how some of this information is taboo where people don't want to talk about sex in public. It's kind of one of those taboo taboo subjects, but you've actually taken these dives into podcasting, talking about what's going on in your world? Well, I know, but I'll tell you I love some of the cover art, I've been very impressed by it, and I was like, you're directed to the point, you don't hide anything. So, I love it Now, the funny part is that we met on this, like I said, this weird website earlier, I'm called Matchmaker dot FM, which a lot of people think that it's always a dating site, and it gets kind of gets kind of strange from time to time. But when you decide when you decided to take these dives into this information, how did you, how did you get to the point that you felt liberated that you were number one willing to start a podcast and what got you to the point? Okay, yes, so, I actually have been doing this for I'll be starting my 6th season on December 19 and um I woke up one day and just literally said I have had 3.5 years of no sex, no physical contact with anybody at all, hold on, hold on, was this a choice? Like there was, this is a decision that you said, I don't want to do anything for X period of time was like this a preplanned thing, I mean anytime somebody says he tells me 3.5 years, of course I'm gonna jump and I apologize for rudely interrupting of course, yeah, no, um I know it's a valid question like what the heck were you doing? Well that's what I was asking myself like what the heck am I doing? Basically, I am just kind of one of those, you know, type a workaholic, you know, love when I, I've been an entrepreneur pretty much my whole working career and just really loved what I did and it kind of became like my sole focus my lover, my everything, you know, just because I was so ambitious and good at it and I really felt like I was getting a lot of my validation, my personal validation from that, but really, um I was so focused on that that I just was forsaking other important areas of my life, like uh my personal life, I just felt like dating and having a boyfriend took time away from my focus off of work and so I really just put my head down and you know, it just kept going with the goals and and left it at that until one day I was like, oh my God, what am I doing? I'm, you know, I'm wasting the pretty, you know, I think this is like, this has to stop, this has got to stop right here now until literally within, you know, I had that light bulb moment and within a week I had gotten out, they're gone on some, you know, dating slash hookup sites based on profiles and within, I think it was actually 10 days, not a week, but you know, 10 days, I had my first date with someone and we broke this dry spell. So we're gonna say it's better than 3.5 years. I'll take 10 days, you know, I understand, wow, 10 days to turn it around. So, so listen, there's no excuse for anybody out there that things they can't resurrect their non existent dating life or they can't resurrect their their sex within their relationship. I did it in 10 days. People, you can do it, but here's the thing. So as you noticed this, at what point during the 3.5 year journey, do you come to that conclusion? Or did you, did you know that was going on the whole time, or was it just so focused on being and doing the work of being an entrepreneur that you don't even pay attention to that, I didn't even pay attention, I didn't care, I just didn't, you know, I was so into my, my work and what I was doing and the goals I was accomplishing. I just didn't really, I mean, it was, it became, I was obsessive about it, like, I didn't want anything to get in the way of that, and so, um but one day I just woke up from that little fog and went, what the, you know, now, this doesn't, you can't do this, this doesn't make sense. So as you looked at this and I said, okay, 3.5 years went by then, then you kind of refocus on some things now, what's happened with work, if you don't mind me asking that particular portion, do you still, are you splitting it 50 50 now, in regards of what you're focusing on? How is this going? Well, um I guess the sort of, the benefit may be a of uh I don't want to piss on my own portrait, but one of the benefits of of uh all of that hard work is, you know, that I'm able to take a lot of time off and just kind of focus on, you know, my podcasting and um and the, and and making my, my dating life in my sex life a priority. So, um that has helped, you know, I did get some benefit out of, out of all that denial, I guess we can call that to put it in a sexual context, will call that those 3.5 years of tease and denial. So is it so essentially work like no one else. So for later you can take care of yourself, like no one else. Is that how you look at it to some extent? Um, I mean, that's one way of looking at it again, it wasn't really, I knew I was ambitious. I mean, I definitely had some, you know, goals in mind for sure. Um, I again, I just didn't really realize what I was trading off for that. And so I did get, you know, I did out of that trade, I did get a benefit, you know, of being having a little more freedom. Um, now, you know, to be able to indulge. So looking back at that, would you sit, would you, if you could talk to your younger self, what what encouragement would you give to her? What would you say? What would be the wording? Um, do you think that this was the correct path to go a pound or do you wish that you would have done different things differently? Or is this your exactly happy with what you've done? No, I would say that, um, instead of being, you know, I don't really like to be on the far end of anything so far left of the far right. And I think that, you know, people should, regardless of the subject matter, maybe try to focus on being a little more in the far middle and get a little bit better balance. I don't, I don't feel that just completely, completely shutting off as a sexual being is is a good thing. And um, you know, I'm way happier I am away. I'm a much nicer, Kinder happier Leila, you know, with all these orgasms that I was just that, you know, I call it the pit bull and panties, you know, that businesswoman was just brutal, you know? So yes, I, I would say get, strike a balance, you know, definitely strike a balance. So as you, as you went through this and of course I've read that you've actually hit some things off your bucket list is, it was very, it was described in, in what you had information related out there. Yeah. Have you went from extreme to an extreme then, even though you're saying hey, to your, to your younger self, you would say, hey kind of play it down the middle. But have you went from what you called the dry spell to the extreme levels from one side to the other. If you don't mind me asking of course and anything you don't feel comfortable with, please let me know because we can, we can always go, okay? Yeah, no, no, no, no. I mean if you listen to my podcast, you know that I don't hold anything. No, I, I don't know how open you want to be on this. Like I always tell people, I normally adjust to whatever you have going on, so whatever you want to share your more than welcome to, yep. Yeah, I mean the only thing, you know, like I think I've already told you is that, you know, I've, I've stayed anonymous in doing this, which is I think was the right thing to do and I'm glad that I have um it just gives me, you know, I feel better with that kind of that layer of privacy, uh you know between um what I'm putting out there and how much, you know, the neighbor knows and all that stuff. I love the website because the website, you don't know because the moment you click on the website, all of a sudden lady shows up. So automatically you think that's Layla, but then you flip through some more pictures and it's like, hold on, it's not a recurring character on here, That's right, that's right. Um and so I'm sorry now I got sidetracked myself a little bit, I think you were asking if um just about the balance portion about the balance por portion and then have you went from one extreme to another? Heavy went from 3.5 years dry spells as you were at it and then all of a sudden you said you've hit gold on your sex bucket list to some extent. So has it been extreme to extreme? No, no, I have a really good balance with it, But what I've been able to do is, you know, when I, I took my, basically I just kind of sounds kind of funny, but I systematized my sex life. I took the same objective, you know, that I would use in the business world to when I had a goal and I wanted to accomplish something, I handled it very systematically just like that and I made, I just decided, okay, you know, I have all these other goals, business, health fitness, all this stuff, why not put sex on that list too. So it's not, you know, it's not the only thing, but it's a priority and I worked really hard to preserve it and keep it on there and not let it slip down, you know, with the importance. And I think that what I found through doing that was so many things I didn't realize about being in touch with your sexuality, that it creates kind of a ripple effect. I mean, other things spring off of that, you know, I feel like I'm a better friend, I'm I'm a better uh you know, partner to the guys that I'm seeing in with and I'm more, you know, understanding I'm more in my soft feminine side and not, you know, just this Taipei chew you up and spit you out, you know, the other the other the other Leila wasn't very fun today, you know, and I couldn't understand too because I was so rooted in in the, and that why why my relationships before or whatever, they were good, but you know, like, I could never get that closeness and the intimacy that I wanted, that I, you know, I knew I wanted, but I just didn't know how to get there because I was basically just caught blocking myself, you know, for lack of a better word. I mean, I was bringing on this masculine energy and these are, these are dudes, you know, that doesn't work like who's going to be the boss, you know, it was like a fight over who's gonna be the boss and then if they're not being the dominant one or they're not being the, you know, the quote unquote man in the relationship, then I'm unhappy with that, you know, and then I'm then I'm losing interest and so, you know, I think that pattern that I had developed, ah you know, when I was younger, kind of wrecked a lot of decent relationships and doing this, you know, fast forward to now be able to do this and actually document all of it, you know, it really is like a diary to myself, people get the benefit of it, but it's a diary to myself and by doing all this, I was just able to see all these patterns and things and go, wow, and then what also, oddly enough found stumbled onto sort of a, you know, a sexual kink that kind of helped me put all the pieces together and I was just like, Ding, Ding, Ding, this is what, this is what I need, this is how I'm wired and this is why other things didn't work out. And now I know kind of the right partner for me. So there's a lot of stuff that you said there that I would like that I want to unpack because there's so much, no, no, no, it's, it's really good stuff. But when you look at it and you said at the very beginning that you almost strategized as if you were doing business, are we talking like you're putting out scenarios where potentially you're going to try this out, see how it works and then move forward, just like you were doing any kind of business plan, are we that far? It's like having a business plan. It's, you know, it's like when you have a goal, you have to, you know, you have to come up with a plan for the hypothesis to test and verify. You have to, you have to measure it. You know, you can't, if you're not, hold on, what are we talking about here, Are we changing something? I'm not getting, we can go into the, uh direction, but you know that like any direction that you want, but no, I say that jokingly, I don't normally have opportunities to ask that question. I found that out there. Um, do you want to answer this? No, no, no, no answer whatever, whatever you want, but it's just amazing to me that you had taken the approach of actually doing it as a business plan or a hypothesis and testing to verify because I will tell you that most people, people when you get into the, to the subject of sex, it's all about emotions, it's about how that feeling is at the moment. I mean you describe some of that as when you were saying who's the masculine one inside of the relationship because that's going to play a factor. And also as well, if I mean if you're the type a personality you're bossing me around, I might be a little, I might shy off a little bit on when you're, when you're developing a relationship with me. Right, Right. Yeah, it's like a, it's like a boner killer. You know, if you're too, if you're too bossy, you know, end up like that, you know, I mean something do something. I was going to say that some guys do. But again, what I think the key part, the key sits to all this really is just help me really understand what, where I'm happiest what I like best and it wasn't what I thought, you know, and that's the funny part. It wasn't what I thought or what I am or what I had been repeating over and over and just kind of going, well gee, I don't know why nothing's working out well, you know, now I know it definitely uh shine some light on that aspect. Um, and you know where I was, where I had some patterns that just weren't, weren't producing the results I wanted overall. So would you say that some of your sexual frustrations to an extent that were actually reflecting on the work that you were doing to an extent, reflecting on on your, on your job? So meaning that you're bringing some of those will say lack of releases or pressures from, from not having sex into your, into the workspace? No, no, I don't think so. I think I'm just, I am, I realized, hey, I am a very driven type. A I love business. I love just, you know, anytime someone even talks to me about their business, my mind starts like clicking, clicking, clicking, like I start wanting to help them and you know like about this and yeah, I mean like I just really love it. I really enjoy it. And um, but what I realized is is that I think for women where I think where we get confused or where we kind of get we run ourselves off in the ditch is that we don't understand that when you come home and when you're with a man, you got to take that hat off, it's okay that you want to, you know, have these goals and you know, I am woman hear me roar and I'm, you know, I love all that stuff, you know, but in a relationship, you need to know where your lane should be and and if you're bringing that home with you and then you're like kind of bossing your significant other around because you wear that had at work, you know, nobody really wants to be on the receiving end of that and it's exhausting for you because you never get a break from it and you know, it doesn't work. So, I I almost have to ask the question. There is an old old movie called disclosure that had Demi moore and um oh my God, Michael Douglas in it, and she almost references as backwards of what you're saying and I'm just gonna and I know that this is an actress playing a playing a part, but she says that you can be a high level person inside of a company and then come back, come back home and outward it my way. I'm sure everybody will remember who have seen the movie and just sit there and take it, but that is not what she said. Um So do you disagree with that standpoint in regards of Mhm Tony? Or do you agree with not toning yourself down to some extent? I mean, do you feel that you have to kind of, we'll throw it back to like how how wife's used to be like in the 70s and the 80s you are you thinking that went well of kind of going down to that? I don't, I don't mean that in a bad way. I know what, that sounded terrible under my wording, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. I think, I think like, I really feel like for women and a lot of women might cringe, but you know, just hear me out. I think that, you know that there's a lot to that 1950s ideal and you know, the gender roles and you know, we're wired for it and that, again, women, we've been given, you know, all this freedom and, and that's amazing and we want that for sure. We want to be able to go out and be as aggressive as we want in the workplace and get our goals and there should be no ceiling and you know, I mean, I I I was a product of that was raised that way, you know, with with really no, no limits, you know, but, and that doesn't work in a relationship with a man and a woman that takes a different dynamic. And so you have to understand that what's making you successful at work if it's a lot of power, energy and masculine, what I call masculine energy, you want to, you know, as a woman, you're competing with the big boys, it's you can't come home and expect to make your partner somewhat an adversary and have that work, you know, so you have to decide who's gonna, who's gonna balance it out and when you have that perfect polarity between that masculine and feminine, not only, you know, are you both going to be real happy, but um, the path, the chemistry is incredible and you also will have a relationship that doesn't fizzle sexually. You're always hot for each other because there is that tension and that rub always going on and it's super hot. So do you, do you feel to an extent because you're changing how you are as a person that you're almost playing a character when you say in what, in what person, well in whichever one, because you can, you can look at it either way, how you, how you are at home can be a different variation of your character on how you are or when you're at work, do you feel that you'd be playing a part? Does that make sense now? No, it's it's it's all that is all me, It's all in there. It's just, it's just the, it's just the flip side of the coin, just exactly the other side of the coin because there's a lot of, you know, when I'm, let's say if I'm on a construction site and you know, if I'm, if I'm running a big job, lets say a construction site and guys are, you know, guys on construction sites, sites swear scratch their balls talk about stuff if I show up and I talk about stuff, this is jay allen. You know how sometimes there's plans for everything out there. 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And we are back on the J Allen show on safety FM. But I'm just saying so if I show up and you know, I'm I have to evaluate, make sure everything's going right and they, and I need them to be responsive to me. Um, if I'm showing up and I'm to, let's say sexy or sexual, that's the vibe they're going to be picking up on if I show up and I'm all business and it's like, they know when I come, when I step on, you know, when I'm in the building, like, I mean business, it's, it's time to put up or shut up. And, and also that if I'm, if something's not done right or we're not on time or whatever over budget, but that, you know, I'm gonna tell you straight up, you're showing me your work and I think it looks like shit. I'm going to tell you that fucking looks like shit, rip it down. Start over. That doesn't work. It's not going to be at home where, you know, I might be with somebody like, well, you know what, that didn't really, that didn't hit the mark. But hey, I'm happy to, I'm happy to um work on it. Like, you know, I think telling him to rip that shit down might be a better approach at home. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. Unless unless, yeah, it's fun to be aggressive, sexually to like, that's it. That's fun. But you know, I mean it's just it's all in there because there's, there's, I think again, where I think people, you know, where I feel like women and I won't speak for men, but I feel like we're women can we get confused. It's like we don't also really realize how much power there is in our femininity and are softer side and we, we, we forget that men can't really get that anywhere else. Women can get affection and attention and and their needs met on an emotional level. You know, if you're straight female, not sexually, but on an emotional level, you can get a lot of that from your girlfriends because we're so nurturing, men have to have an after surgery. Well you're their outlet for that, right? And so they need that softness and that femininity and they don't have anywhere else to go to express it and they certainly don't want to do it outside of the home, right? Because again, you're scratching balls, you're swearing your, you know, your dudes being dudes and that doesn't work. You know? And so, um, you know, you can't be like, hey buddy, I'm having a bad day, maybe you do, but you know, it's, it's probably less common. So, you know, men really need that from, from women and I think that if you're, if you're overlooking that your partner is really, you know, you're leaving them with a big gap and that's where I think women don't realize, you know, cheating starts happening and things like bad things, you know, things like that because um, they're missing something there needing something from you and if you're not going to give it eventually starved dog will go eat somewhere else, You know, So I love how you were that a starved dog will actually need some. I know it's the truth. You, I have this, you know, anybody's listen to my show now is where I stand on this. First of all, I'm just not, I'm big on open openness, honesty, communication. You know, I, I think if you are gonna be lying to your partner, you just don't have any business being in a relationship period. Um, if you can't put on your big girl or big boy panties and communicate, then let that person go find someone that can can, but um, on the same token, you know, women will withhold, they'll withhold their, you know, sex a lot and men need that, you know, and that physical touch and all that is super important. Their men are really wired for women needed to, we needed just as much, but it's easier for 3.5 years, I don't know well, but I think it's easier for us to withhold it or turn it off or whatever. And again, so, you know, if you're not connecting with your partner or making an effort to connect with your partner and your withholding that and, and, and even worse, you track the guy in a sexless marriage and then you, you know, you expect that he should just put up with it just because you no longer feel like it. I think that's cruel and unusual punishment and you know, he's probably most likely going to go behind your back and so don't get upset when he does because you can't, you can't, um, he didn't sign up for, you know, a life of no sex. So do you think that monogamous relationships are non existent now? No, I think they, I don't think that's, I think it's hard and it takes a lot of work and people, I don't want to, you know, people fall down on wanting to put it the work in. But I don't, I don't, I don't think it's impossible. Um, but I also think there's a, there's a reality that people don't want to address that. You know, everything changes over time and you know, what do they say? The only 22 guarantees is death. There are death and taxes. Unfortunately, everything is constantly changing and evolving. And especially when you're married for a long time, you're not the same person. You know, you guys are trying to grow together and if you're, there's so many different options other than being dishonest, you know, I'm going behind someone's back. So if you're, if your sex lives aren't matching up or your drives or whatever, you have to figure out a solution together that works for both of you and if somebody just doesn't want to do it, then they should allow their partner to go outside of the relationship. If the, if that person still wants to stay with them married or whatever their commitment is, um, you know, you just have to negotiate what works for the two of you and people. Again, like I said, they just, they don't want to address the elephant in the room, which I think is crazy. Like, you know, like how could you be with somebody and not have sex and just not then even talk about it, You know, like, hey, we're not having sex. So what do you think about open relationships then? Do you think that this should be something that's on the table? Almost immediately if you're running through that scenario and then if you are in an open relationship, is that a discussion that you have on what you're doing with another person with whoever your main partner is? If that makes sense when you say a discussion of what you're doing with. So you mean until do you want to give that? Yeah. Listen, I am, I believe that what goes on between two consenting adults and what works for them more power to him. It's really about people are only limited by their own creativity and their their own lack of imagination. You can, you can work out any sort of framework for your relationship that you both agree on. And then to the extent that, you know, you're talking about that again is just another area that you discuss and you decide how much do I want to know, What do I not want to know some people, you know I mean, and that's a huge spectrum. You know, it may just be, hey, look, you can do this. Please don't, I don't really want to know about it. It might be a don't ask, don't tell or then there's other couples that find it erotic and excited, you know, exciting. And some people get off on erotic jealousy and you know, then you're, you're just getting into all this different stuff. But again, as long as people are okay with it and they have good communication, open openness and honesty and whatever works for them, they should, you know, knock themselves out. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned that I had a someone that I worked with that he was in an open relationship. I did not know this until one night that were out for dinner. Me and this gentleman. So we're out for dinner. He tells me that he's interested in a girl that he had seen. But the agreement that him and his well girlfriend at the time wife now um have is that they have to Face time and she has to see the person and get to know them before anything can happen. And I thought he was legitimately joking and he turns around grabs his phone calls Facetime says, hey, this is my intention. They talk to the person and whatever happened from that point on, I can't tell you the rest of the story because I was not there. I was just there at the beginning portion thinking that it was a joke, but it turned serious right away and I'm sure that if he's listening to this, he knows exactly what. But I was just amazed on how some people can do that because I think that there's always a level of jealousy even though it might be open, Hey, I don't want to hold you back. But also, I always think there's a level of jealousy when it comes to this. Do you think that that's something that somebody would hold against them later on down the road? Mm Even if it was discussed? Yeah, that's always a possibility. And again, that's just something where you really have to be careful when you navigate those waters constantly. If you're new to it, be checking in with each other and, and don't, don't hide anything. That's the worst thing. Don't, you know, don't try to hide anything. Just I think, I mean, I really am impressed by this guy actually like, wow, you know, because, you know, do you know which maturity and commitment and care and love for each other that it takes to do that. A lot, A lot of people can't even think that they can't even imagine it. But um, it really, it takes a lot of mature. Ignace to get there. The the other thing you commented on the jealousy is I kind of think that jealousy gets a bad rap? I don't think is so much that you that the feelings don't come up? I think that's natural. I think that the thought of your partner with someone else might, you know, might make you feel a little little twinges. Like, oh, you know, like there might be a little something that says, gosh, I hope, you know, hope it doesn't fall of them or love them or like them or whatever. But um, I don't think the jealousy is a bad thing per se. I think it's what you do when that comes up. That's the bad thing is the reaction to it. That's the bad thing. So, you know, if you start acting crazy, you know, again punishing your partner, you know, when you agreed to this and you know, then that's when you, again, it's just, you have to, you have to be honest and sometimes it might be embarrassing, you know, to say, okay, I know I agree to this and then now I'm, you know, just completely jealous out of my mind. I'm wanting to like go through your phone and you know, I don't like feeling this way. But again, that's a better conversation to have than just cranking up the punishment, you know, which a lot of women will do. So here's the question for you. So let's say for instance, there's people out there that are taking a listen and they are open them personally of having this conversation with their partner. How do you think this conversation should go, how I mean? How do you even start a conversation like this? And by the way of my wife's listening, I don't have any, I'm just asking the question. This is funny because I'm going to say, I'm going to say, well if they're listening to your podcast, they should actually have it playing with their partner around because it's, it will, if they can't initiate the conversation, this will help get them comment, getting, getting them commenting on it, you know, getting the partner commenting on, it's a real, you know, non threatening way to just, you know, him listen to this and, and uh, oh my God, you know what? It's like, hey, oh, whoa, whoa, geez, wow, they're really getting out there. What do you think about that? You know, and just take the temperature, you know, see what, what your partner's responses and how they, how they look at it. And um, you never know, I mean a lot, I think a lot of people are, are more open to it and there's so many, there's so much around that you can baby steps, you know, you can just start with going to like a sex club and just watching, you know, just go, you know, you don't have to do anything, you don't have to touch anybody, You don't have to do anything and it's all about what you, you know, it's all about consent and what you're comfortable with and you know, kind of like nibble around the edges that way, you know, and just see if that's exciting and then see what comes out of it. You know, that that that's a good way to start it before you just say, okay, let's go off and have separate relationships with people. Um But I think a lot more people nowadays are open to it and it's, you know, something something to consider. So as you look at this, what happens with this one? Because it sounds like you you've had this conversation before here. I'm open to this idea. I want to do it, but I don't want you to do anything Because, you know those things happen, I don't want to be jealous. I want to be able to have, I wanted to be a 50% open relationship where I can do whatever I want, but you not so much. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I got that. Yeah. You know, I didn't wanna I didn't felt I wanted to do what I wanted to do, but I didn't feel like I wanted to um share that person. So how does that work? How does that work? How do you have that conversation? Please let me be free. But to an extent, I want to keep you here in a cage. Well, so again, it's about what the other probably other person feels about it. Some people there's, you know, there's cuckold and they love this stuff like this really, this is their lane. You know, like that's what they're looking for. A partner like that. And then there's um, for, for women, it's, you know, a fuckin and there's a, there's just varying levels to that. There's so, you know, so much that goes into it. So can you describe that a little bit more for people who might not be familiar with us? Okay, so like the, so um a cup hold is someone who enjoys his, you know, generally you refer to it. That's a male, you'd refer to him as a cook and he enjoys his partner, he gets off on his partner getting off like that really does it for him. And then some cook holds really also get off on the erotic jealousy part of it that you know that you are going out, they get to like help you get ready for your date and then they get all this angst over it and then, or you know, they'll get to watch you, you'll face time then while you're with with this other play partner and it just drives you crazy and they and they really enjoy it and it actually sounds sounds counterintuitive, but it bonds the couple together because again, you know, if you think about how much communication and so I keep getting my my friend how much communication and honesty and dialogue you have to have around this stuff and then, you know, and then you you're done with your date and you know, you come home to him and you know, and he gets to he gets the excitement of you coming back and you know, there's like a whole cleanup process. I haven't actually um uh done it, I've done varying levels of it, but not like not in a full time committed relationship. And it is, it's it's exciting. It really, you know, it's I I can already picture it in like the amount of jealousy as some of the people are listening to this of how this would actually, how could you allow that to happen? Um, it's amazing. Just some of the stories that you have. So as you've seen a lot of this stuff because this is something that, that you talk about going onto your six season, um what have you seen that has shocked you the most, what have you experienced so far? That has been the most shocking so far to from where you were when you went through the 3.5 year dry spell to where you are now and believe you can say whatever you want, good, bad or indifferent and that is shocking. I don't think that anything shocks me anymore again. Is that good or bad thing? No, I mean, it's really just like I've to me it's all just, you know, it's on your on some end of the spectrum of sexuality, you know, and I think that the problem is that people don't understand how diverse it is, you know, and the problem is that you know, we had sort of almost had this like it's really weird like sexual prejudices like well we're vanilla, we would never do that, you know, I think you're spot on with that. I think that even this conversation that you and I are having, even though we have not went into any kind of anything extremely graphic because we really didn't, we'll make some people feel uncomfortable. What do you mean that you could be with someone else? What do you mean? You could be committed but still you have an open relationship, right? And just you know, even just or even just the style of sex that you have, you know, there's all these just kinks and and you can still be completely monogamous and you guys are just the biggest king stirs on the block and usually I find it's like the soccer moms and the P. T. A. Mom and the people you would never even expected from their total swingers, you know, I mean my first swinger party, this was a big shock. I ended up, I thought we were going to, I thought the way they made it sound, I thought um it was gonna be like this, you know eyes wide shut in this big beautiful house and you know, and it was going to be all sexy and steamy and everybody was gonna be gorgeous and you show up and we are in the middle of the burbs and they're having this sex party in their house while there's you know, minivans and station wagons all over the place and they've got a potluck first of all greasy food and sex with multiple people or in a group does not go, I don't think like uh I'm not uh that's like why would you eat a bunch of heavy food? And then I don't know, it just, it was weird. I thought it was very odd because it was like very, you know, greasy like nonchalant. Like hey, it's whatever cocktail wiener and some chili and hey, by the way, you know, you want to go off into this room and here's a cocktail wiener and more okay, right now you want to see the real thing. I mean like it just anyway, it was very, it was, it was strange, but I will say that, you know, uh the one thing that is true for everybody thinks like swingers, it's a big free for all Now. It's all permission based, nobody touches you unless you know you want to and everybody is very respectful. It's not, it sounds, you know sleazy and cd, it's not, it's just you know, people that are really out there with their sexuality and and enjoy it and some people just want to watch and some people want to participate and there's all different flavors, but let me ask a question there. So as you went to this swingers group and it got there, how did you discover this? Like if somebody is actually interested in starting to get involved in this kind of lifestyle here and they say, hey, what Leila has going on is what I have. I want, what I want going on. How do you find these things you uh well, first of all just, I mean, google it, swingers, clubs, swingers, you know, read it I find is a great place for resources like this. Um, swingers near me, you know, type in your city, swingers, Atlanta or swingers, you know, la whatever you're gonna, you're gonna hit on a bunch of groups. Um, a lot of like, um, you know, sex sites, hookup sites, I shouldn't say sex sites, that's, that's not what they're, they're like hook up sites and things like that. Um They have, they'll have groups. I mean there's a big, there's categories where they, you know, just have groups and meet ups and things like that. So um, yeah, I mean it's, it's out there, it's, and it's not the people, you'd expect and it's not, you know, as, as seedy as you would expect, although again, so I, I had, you know, the very start, you know, because one that was on my bucket list, like I want to, I want to go to one of these, I just want to go, I, I didn't know that. I didn't know if I was going to want to do anything, but I definitely felt comfortable going with a partner and so he kind of scouted it and found it and like I said, you know, we, yeah, because we were, we were supposed to get mask and we got mass and I thought, oh, this is just gonna be so sexy. And you know the way they were describing it? Like, again, I just thought this, it was gonna be this big mansion up in the hills. You definitely watch eyes wide, wide, eyes checked way too many times. That's what I was, I was expecting, you know, didn't show up in a taxi. Did you know? I'm joking? No. Well, yeah, but we had to park around the block. There was like, I'm not kidding you. Like, then they had like, you know, lights going and it was like, again, I imagine, uh, you know, just smack dab in the middle of the street on the suburbs and you know, and they had converted their house and like put plastic over, she covered everything. Like all the beds and you know, it almost sounds like a dexter episode, totally, totally. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I mean, you know, they had like, and they had different themed rooms where there's just different things going on. You can do different things. And so did you have passwords like fidelio. Just like the movie Eyes wide shut. I'm just I'm just trying to figure it out. I mean no I mean you know I don't think we had. Can't remember. That's a good question. Do we have? No because it was so obvious everybody walked in. You know you just walked right up and thank you. Just said hello introduce yourself. There's some kind of meeting you there like hey can I take your coat? You know over here? We have this upstairs, we have that you know and then you just mingle around so so you're you've referenced this bucket list a few times. Yeah. Can I ask some of the things that you've had on this bucket list that you've been able to accomplish so far. Yeah I I have I kind of I updated constantly because over this amount of time I've scratched things off and then when you once you do when you start experimenting One door opens and then there's like 10 more behind it. You know because it really you start really finding things that you didn't realize that you thought were fun and sexy and then you're like oh I bet that would be really now that I know I like this. I bet you this would be good. So it just it grows on itself. But um yeah I wanted to you know I wanted to try B. D. S. M. I wanted to find a partner that I could go to. Some sex clubs with. I wanted to learn how to squirt and um I wanted, I wanted to try threesomes and let's see what else that was my, that was kind of like my year. That's a pretty big list. Just starting off just with that. You're saying that other things have opened up since then. Oh yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so I mean from there really like that original list really kind of started it all and everything, you know, kind of sprang off of that and mushroomed and so you know, here I am interesting. Are you trying to tell us that? Are giving us a hint there? I know it sounds very good. Now lately if people want to know more about you and what you have going on on your podcast workers, they find out more information. Yeah, they can real easy. I'll just send you one place, go to my website. That is the Curious Girl diaries dot com. From there, you can link to all my socials. Also, if you listen to podcasts, I have a podcast, The Curious Girl Diaries. That's pretty much in any major syndicator. Um, I heart radio Itunes. Uh, stitcher, google podcast. So it or just type it just type it in and google it. You'll, it'll come up Well, Leila, it has truly been a pleasure having you on. I hope that this is not the first and only time. Hopefully we'll be able to have you back. I know maybe next time I'll just be real, finite and specific. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host in its guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. It should not be utilized in the real world as the only solution available as they are based only on very limited in dated open source information, assumptions made within this analysis are not reflective of the physician of the company. No part of this podcast may be reproduced stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, electronic recording or otherwise without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast jay allen.